Bargue Drawing Thread

[Oruhito]

Hi Guys, I'm relatively new to the forum and thought I would start a thread dedicated to Bargue drawing studies. Here you can post your studies, finished works, works in progress, advice etc,.

Also, if anyone would mind scanning, or uploading a good quality photo of the plate showing Cardinal De Birage I would appreciate it. It seems that it is a missing plate in my collection. If this is breaking any forum rules, please tell me as soon as possible.

Thanks everyone,
and have fun with these!

Oruhito

[Oruhito]

Oh, and in case anyone can't find the plate under the name of Cardinal De Birage, here's a reproduction I found on the net

http://www.snitzerart.com/img/traditional/Cardinal_de_birage_bargue.jpg

So I guess I'll start the thread going by putting up a finished piece of mine. It is Brutus in Profile,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24738774@N04/2387125677/in/set-72157604901518498/

[Nigel_Robertson]

Very nice job! Im having trouble finding more plates to copy... :( anyone have any links to pages with more plates on them? Im itching to start. Ill post up what I find as well.

[Andy_Mac]

Hi

I'm just starting out on the Bargue plates, I'm quite new to drawing so I'm only doing the the first plates in a row starting with the eyes.

Is there any advice or a thread I can read on how I should be measuring these early plates? Most of what I've seen online deals with some of the more advanced plates - I'm just wondering how best to approach these early ones.

I have the book from Dahesh Museum and if you can stretch to it it's well worth getting not just for the plates themselves, the rest of the book is beautiful. I have the first seven plates scanned that I'm happy to upload if it's allowed.

[Graydon]

People measure them in various ways from sight-size to a more comparative approach. I suggest that you do them by eye at first, then measure to check for accuracy and discover your mistakes. You can measure each Bargue drawing in the beginning, just to establish scale, since drawing them to scale makes corrections easier. That is, one is doing a 1 to 1 comparison rather than a translation. However, I believe that too much measuring can become cumbersome and make one fearful. Ultimately, it is a nice feeling to dispense with measuring tools altogether, using them instead for emergencies.

[Andy_Mac]

Thank you Graydon, I've started along the lines you've suggested and I'm trying to sight size the best I can. I'm just not too sure whether my inaccuracies are down to bad technique or just lack of practice or both.

[Oruhito]

@Nigel: Thank you! I've been wondering the same thing. I've been trying to search the web for links of different plates that are large files (you really need large, high resolution files for these drawings so that you can blow them up and print them out nicely). I've found a few plates that are somewhat large in size. Hopefully starting this thread will spawn more pictures available online of the plates

@Andy: Good luck and I hope you have a good start! They are tough but rewarding. I suggest using comparative measuring. I personally do not like the sight size approach, but if it works for you then use it by all means. The results for some are beautiful. I suggest you try both and see which method suits you best.

And also if you'd be willing to upload your scans I think we'd all appreciate it. I'm not sure if it is permitted, but putting them up won't do any harm. If it turns out that it's not permitted then you simply remove them. Good luck and thank you!

[Nigel_Robertson]

I guess Ill have to order the book on Amazon... Its $75.00, but im sure its well worth it. It looks super thick too...

[Oruhito]

Yes, I would say it is definitely worth it. Though I don't think it's in stock yet. I checked just now and it said that it was unavailable, but there were copies going for over $200! I've been researching forever on how to order the book everywhere, but it is not available anywhere. I tried the Dahesh museum but I somehow could not order it. Perhaps this thread will help start an online collection lol!

[Andy_Mac]

I think you can only get the book through the Dahesh Museum. They've had issues with their online ordering system so I think they only way is to phone them, they are very helpful.
It cost $145 in total to ship it over here to the UK but I'm so glad I did.

I believe Graydon had a hand in putting it together and if the Graydon above is indeed Graydon Parrish then gents, we are in the company of a true master.

[Oruhito]

Andy: I believe you're right - you can only get it through the Dahesh Museum. I find it odd it's not more available elsewhere seeing as it is one of the most used books in Ateliers across the world! And if it is indeed Graydon Parrish, then we are indeed having the honour of being in the presence of a true master!

I've been working on two Bargues lately. Check it out. Hope you like them :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24738774@N04/2526396306/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24738774@N04/2526396320/

I'm glad they're done!

[Graydon]

Believe it or not, the book was somewhat difficult to get published in the beginning. ACR (not ARC) graciously agreed to do it since it had already had success with Gerald Ackerman's monograph on Gerome and other books on the Orientalists. One requirement is that we couldn't make it out of scale, any larger than 12 inches or so, which would have been nice for art students but bad for sales, I was told. However, we did the best we could. The other problems is that ACR doesn't sell to places like Barnes and Noble. It is a boutique publisher. Its also the reason the book is pricey. I only have two copies myself and had to sign away any profits. So, any complaints, please understand that I have them too, but in the end,it was better to have it made than not.

As for sight-size, it just makes correcting easier. Sight-size was not a technique that was taught in the 19th century schools. In fact, Bargue and Gerome did not write any instructions for using the plates. Today, they are mainly used to teach accurate drawing. But in the past, artists would have appreciated the exposure to what was called Le Beau Ideal, or idealized, classical taste.

Teachers have different ideas about the level of accuracy needed to make a successful Bargue copy. For me, I think one should stay with each plate until its around 95 percent and move on. If desired, one can keep going, striving for that ever elusive 100. However, I would rather see someone do more of them than fewer. I think there is a healthy compromise between excellent and obsessive.

[thinairart]

I lucked out and picked up my copy for $45 USD from Dahesh about a year and half ago. The printing they had in stock at the time suffered from an issue with the binding which actually turned out to be a blessing as the book could be laid almost completely flat. Outside of the plates themselves, there is also an informative historical section, which features a number of nice reproductions from both Gerome & Bargue.