Clayton Brothers......

[NoSeRider]

Both currently live and work in Pasadena, California.
Both currently serve on the faculty at Art Center College of Design

http://www.claytonbrothers.com/index.html

Here again, throw some bunnies in the lion cage and see what happens.

[NoSeRider]

OK, I posted this because it's not my taste.

Would you be willing to pay $ 100,000 for this kind of teacher talent?

http://www.artcenter.edu

[Queen Nehalania]

Yeah its just too..... ________?

My eyes kept going all over the place that I just closed it because it started to screw around with me. I guess that's what the artist was trying to do. I checked out the other stuff. Wow....

[Candras]

I really don't like this art
But to each their own

[Mr.Delicious]

hahahaha, :(

[Elwell]

Art Center lists 48 names in their illustration faculty. If this isn't the sort of thing one is interested in, it's easy enough to avoid. On the other hand, if it is, it's available.

[Hyskoa]

OK, I posted this because it's not my taste.

Would you be willing to pay $ 100,000 for this kind of teacher talent?

http://www.artcenter.edu

Artcenter is probably going broke due to the bad economy and is hiring teachers straight from the back alley behind their own school.

These clayton brothers probably came from a poverty strikken home and had never even seen a paintbrush before they were hired from artcenter and were ordered to make shiny stuff to put online.

It's a sad ... 100 years actually, for education.

[Peter Coene]

I took one of Rob's classes while going to Art Center. While I don't like his work he has lots of techniques when it comes to aplication of media that were great to learn from. I'd say that mixing one of his classes into your schedual is worth the time and money, plus I've always advocated trying out different styles, and even if you don't like his style you have to admit that it is different.

It should be pointed out though that if you are in the entertainment art/design tracks you will probably not be given any of either Clayton's classes unless you specifically request it.

[Peter Coene]

Artcenter is probably going broke due to the bad economy and is hiring teachers straight from the back alley behind their own school.

These clayton brothers probably came from a poverty strikken home and had never even seen a paintbrush before they were hired from artcenter and were ordered to make shiny stuff to put online.

It's a sad ... 100 years actually, for education.

This is one of the dumbest things that I have heard.

-1st, artcenter is not going broke at all.

-2nd, the teachers are not from a back alley. As much as you may not like their work the Claytons have been teaching at ACCD for quite some time now.

-3rd, after checking your sketchbook I need to add that you are in to position to be insulting anyone.

[Hyskoa]

This is one of the dumbest things that I have heard.

-1st, artcenter is not going broke at all.

-2nd, the teachers are not from a back alley. As much as you may not like their work the Claytons have been teaching at ACCD for quite some time now.

-3rd, after checking your sketchbook I need to add that you are in to position to be insulting anyone.

- Even after that many conversations with yourself?

1) Nooooooooooooooo. Really?

2) Fine, they're from a front alley then.

3) I'm not a teacher. I'm a student. Those people get paid a shitload, so their art should represent that figure.

But nice try.

[Candras]

Well, I don't think its THAT bad. The rendering of the objects really are good and all, it just looks a mess.. but I'm sure they mean it to. I could see how others would like it and I think it they are good enough to be teachers.

[Jason Rainville]

I like the repeated use of the outdoor bin inside of an unfinished wooden structure. It reminds me of how within our own structure of intermittent ribs and bones, inside all of us is an empty vessel that needs to be filled; that not only are our bodies open and empty, but so are our souls. At the same time, being a waste bin, it shows us how eager we are to fill our souls with garbage, the garbage of mainstream pop-culture that will only make us feel more hollow inside. Placed in the outer edges of the paintings, it really communicated that this feeling we have of emptiness inside emptiness is really at the back of our minds, and isn't ever really addressed.


(removes helmet of +5 BSing)

[NoSeRider]

I'm just wondering what the Clayton brothers refer to when they do a piece of art like this?

I guess the Clayton brothers would talk about Robert Williams who started Juxtapoz Magazine or Mark Ryden or something.
I guess it's a Collage Bauhaus Art kinda thing maybe?

But the Clayton brothers are breaking the 'rules'....that's probably why your eyes hurt.

I go to an Atelier and they talk about Fechin, Sargent, Homer and whatever artist that the Clayton brothers seem to be discarding.

[Peter Coene]

2) Fine, they're from a front alley then.
:rolleyes:

3) I'm not a teacher. I'm a student. Those people get paid a shitload, so their art should represent that figure.
wrong, the teachers, even at ACCD, don't get paid a shitload.

Also, the teachers don't keep their jobs if there is no demand for their classes. Apparently students keep asking for these classes and so they keep taking them.

And as a student you are in no place to say what is worth being taught and what isn't.

I'm just wondering what the Clayton brothers refer to when they do a piece of art like this?
A lot of it is symbolism from their own childhood.

I guess the Clayton brothers would talk about Robert Williams who started Juxtapoz Magazine or Mark Ryden or something.
I guess it's a Collage Bauhaus Art kinda thing maybe?
Yes, though thats not all. When I took Rob's class he also referred to Mike Hassar, Peter DeSeve, Mary Blaire, Barron Storey, and quite a few others.

But the Clayton brothers are breaking the 'rules'....that's probably why your eyes hurt.
They are not teaching entertainment type art, different rules apply.

I go to an Atelier and they talk about Fechin, Sargent, Homer and whatever artist that the Clayton brothers seem to be discarding.
Those artists are also talked about at Art Center, however that is in the Entertainment tracks while the Claytons teach more in the Illustrative Fine Arts, or whatever you want to call it.

[Hyskoa]

They are not teaching entertainment type art, different rules apply.


Indeed, it doesn't have to be good, or anything really. It just had to be fun to do. Like fingerpainting in kiddy grade was.

Look it's a giraffe. *shows yellow page*

[Peter Coene]

Indeed, it doesn't have to be good, or anything really. It just had to be fun to do. Like fingerpainting in kiddy grade was.

Look it's a giraffe. *shows yellow page*
ok, seeing as your work sucks too why don't you try selling it and see if you can bring in as much as his work does.

[NoSeRider]

I go to an Atelier and they talk about Fechin, Sargent, Homer and whatever artist that the Clayton brothers seem to be discarding.


Those artists are also talked about at Art Center, however that is in the Entertainment tracks while the Claytons teach more in the Illustrative Fine Arts, or whatever you want to call it.

I find it strange you have to take Entertainment Art to learn traditional skills?

Just an observation.

I do admire Gary Meyer and Kent Williams, so it's not like I'm going after the whole school....maybe.
But if I can get the information else where....I'll do it.

[Hyskoa]

ok, seeing as your work sucks too why don't you try selling it and see if you can bring in as much as his work does.

I would but I still try to keep my self-worth as a human being. Those people probably bartered it for a coke and a burger first day they were released from the "special" day care program, aka modern day artsy fartsy schools.

[NoSeRider]

Hyskoa, do yourself a favor and take the test.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67659

Art Center has popped out people like Syd Mead, Feng Zhu and Scott Robertson...so take a chill pill, OK?

[Jason Rainville]

ok, seeing as your work sucks too why don't you try selling it and see if you can bring in as much as his work does.

Seeing as how you resort to personal attacks when people say something you don't agree with, maybe you should stop trying to communicate with human beings for the good of everyone involved. We'll get further with you out of the picture.

On a serious note, if you admit that the work from Hyskoa and Clayton are on the same level, what's the deciding factor here? What makes clayton a person of respect and Hyskoa a person of contempt for you? The way they package their work? As far as I can see it, one knows they're not good and presents themselves as such, while the other has no clue that they're not good and and pretends that they are.

Is deceit a respectable quality?

[Hyskoa]

Fine, fine.
And I already did.

[Peter Coene]

Seeing as how you resort to personal attacks when people say something you don't agree with, maybe you should stop trying to communicate with human beings for the good of everyone involved. We'll get further with you out of the picture.
um, sorry, but he made personal attacks on myself, people that I know IRL, and my alma-mater. How do you expect me to react?

[Nrx]

Come on man shut up, normally i find your stuff mildly entertaining but now you just look like a moron.

Stop treating your opinion like fact. :/

Edit, this was aimed at hysoka btw.

[Jason Rainville]

um, sorry, but he made personal attacks on myself, people that I know IRL, and my alma-mater. How do you expect me to react?

I never saw him insult you. Stern words, but no "hey, you suck, you don't get an opinion."

EDIT: and lets all breathe and be friends again. They're hard to come by remember :)

[wesburt]

oh come on. hyskoa's being an ignorant prick. that sort of thing tends to override any chance of listening to his opinion fairly.

its about as lame as starting a thread just to talk shit on them.

[NoSeRider]

As far as I'm concerned, it's about art and money, not emotional retardation.

[Hyskoa]

Thanks Wes, love you too.

[algenpfleger]

Wait, was that Wes Burt just now? o_O

[Peter Coene]

I never saw him insult you. Stern words, but no "hey, you suck, you don't get an opinion."

- This is one of the dumbest things that I have heard.
Even after that many conversations with yourself?
Yeah, it was a tit-for-tat but his oppinions were already referring to my education as worthless while attacking instructors that I had while going to the school

On a serious note, if you admit that the work from Hyskoa and Clayton are on the same level, what's the deciding factor here? What makes clayton a person of respect and Hyskoa a person of contempt for you?

The way they package their work? As far as I can see it, one knows they're not good and presents themselves as such, while the other has no clue that they're not good and and pretends that they are.

First, I made no such claim of equality, but only meant to point out (in a somewhat rude way) that Hysoka cannot function in the same types of circles as Rob Clayton does, and so far can not function in the area that he seems to be trying to go for.

If you have ever had any of Rob's classes you know that he makes no claims about being good but simply does what he does and people pay through the nose for his work. Don't ask me why; honestly I'm not a huge fan of it either, but I don't beleive in holding someone to a set of standards that her has never aspired to himself.

If Rob walks in here and statrs posting art, claiming that it is his concept art/character designs for a video game then you can rip on him all you want. However, unless I am totally wrong about him, he knows what he is doing and has no intention of making concept type art, or at least not in the sense that we understand it.

As for what bothers me about Hyskoa:
What bothers me is his ignorance and how it has led him to not only compare apples and oranges, but it has caused him to attack the apple for not being an orange. The clayton's are in a weird field of work and I honestly don't know how to label what is good or bad in that type of work, but I can say that they are well known and that those who work in the same circles speak highly of them.

Is deceit a respectable quality?
This has nothing to do with it. If anything Rob Clayton is one of the most honest guys I have met. All he wants to do is put paint on a board and see what happens and I have never heard him make any claims to the contrary. People pay him for it afterwards and thats the end of the story. If there is anything deceitful in that please let me know.

[Jason Rainville]

Thanks Pete, that spells it out for me pretty nicely. I never said that Clayton was a bad guy, and I hope you understand that I never meant to make it seem like it. The fact that he seems like a humble guy (or at least doesn't parade his work around as if it's the next big thing) brings my respect for him up too.

I'll still have my opinion of the work (as we all will) though.

[Eric Lofgren]

I dunno. At first I was ready to dismiss the work I was looking at at their site. But after spending some sime going thourgh it I can see how it would have appeal for an audience. I actually quite like how they take mundane, boring objects and settings and abstract them into interesting, dynamic compostions. Something I've often wanted to try myself. And their colours are nicely handled. I guess you would classify this type of work as lowbrow art. Assuming it needs to be labelled, I guess.

[Peter Coene]

Thanks Pete, that spells it out for me pretty nicely. I never said that Clayton was a bad guy, and I hope you understand that I never meant to make it seem like it. The fact that he seems like a humble guy (or at least doesn't parade his work around as if it's the next big thing) brings my respect for him up too.

I'll still have my opinion of the work (as we all will) though.
It wasn't your comments that offended me, but instead Hyskoa's about ACCD pulling him out of a back alley.

[Mike Corriero]

This is one of the dumbest things that I have heard.
-3rd, after checking your sketchbook I need to add that you are in to position to be insulting anyone.

I thought it was obvious Hyskoa was being a bit sarcastic (though yes it was rude), but why do people always resort to "after checking your sketchbook I need to add that you're in no position to be insulting anyone"? You've just made a hypocrite of yourself by insulting his work all the same. Get my point?


And as a student you are in no place to say what is worth being taught and what isn't.

Shouldn't a student be the MOST concerned about what's being taught? Or at least be allowed to have an opinion? Considering they are the ones who will be learning from the teacher.

ok, seeing as your work sucks too why don't you try selling it and see if you can bring in as much as his work does.

Again, insulting someones work when you're getting mad that they are insulting anothers... Hypocrite. Once again, I also didn't see a personal attack on "Your" work, yet you're attacking Hyskoa's work.

I would but I still try to keep my self-worth as a human being. Those people probably bartered it for a coke and a burger first day they were released from the "special" day care program, aka modern day artsy fartsy schools.

Though I'm against most of what's being said in this thread, you're continuing to instigate it with comments like this.

um, sorry, but he made personal attacks on myself, people that I know IRL, and my alma-mater. How do you expect me to react?

Like a mature person would react, or at the very least leave personal attacks on someone else's work out of the discussion when it's not directed toward you.

oh come on. hyskoa's being an ignorant prick. that sort of thing tends to override any chance of listening to his opinion fairly.
its about as lame as starting a thread just to talk shit on them.

I agree that Hyskoa is pushing things and being an instigator, but it is his "opinion" and calling him an ignorant prick doesn't help the situation in any way.

but only meant to point out (in a somewhat rude way) that Hysoka cannot function in the same types of circles as Rob Clayton does, and so far can not function in the area that he seems to be trying to go for.

Again.. still attacking his work, while getting mad that he insulted your teachers. You're not showing any more maturity than Hyskoa, so what's your point? Would it make sense for me to go check your sketchbook and randomly insult your art just because you're insulting Hyskoa's work? I'd say that would be pretty damn stupid.


That said, I think a lot of people need to calm down.. namely Hyskoa and Peter Coene. This thread should be locked.

[NoSeRider]

Clayton Brothers represent a portion of Lowbrow art movement.

Lowbrow art is meant to evoke opinion and emotion.

If you're an 'artist' you should be able to analyze the pieces though without getting emotionally attached.

[Elwell]

Hyskoa, remember that Neitzsche quote...

[James Kei]

What's all the hubbub about?
I like the Clayton Brothers work. Good stuff.
It doesn't have to be Rembrandt to be good art.

[Peter Coene]

I thought it was obvious Hyskoa was being a bit sarcastic (though yes it was rude), but why do people always resort to "after checking your sketchbook I need to add that you're in no position to be insulting anyone"? You've just made a hypocrite of yourself by insulting his work all the same. Get my point?
Let me explain my thinking and THEN you can call me a hypocrite all you want.
If Rob had come in and put his art up asking for a critique as to how to make it better in terms of being concept art, or if he had made any claims as to being a concept artist, then I would have had no issue with Hyskoa's comments. However Rob is not a member of these forums and instead Hyskoa proceeded to attack the work and the carreer or a person who was not even here to defend/explain himself.

Also, if you notice what I did was to call Hyskoa on being a hypocrite for attacking another artist while having crappy art himself. There was 2 parts to that and therefore to be a hypocrite I would not only need to be attacking his work but to have crappy myself.

Now, you are welcome to make that claim, however remember that your orriginal complaint about the way I was conducting myself was insulting another person's artwork. To call me a hypocrite would require you to insult my artwork, therefore making you a hypocrite as well.

Shouldn't a student be the MOST concerned about what's being taught? Or at least be allowed to have an opinion? Considering they are the ones who will be learning from the teacher.
Perhapse, but I have found that often times a student doesn't know or understand what the teacher has to teach. Karate Kid reference; wax on, wax off, you know? The student often sits there wondering what the hell this old guy might have to teach him without realising that he is learning already.

Again, insulting someones work when you're getting mad that they are insulting anothers... Hypocrite. Once again, I also didn't see a personal attack on "Your" work, yet you're attacking Hyskoa's work.
Are you implying that my work is worth attacking? Also, once again, I was accusing him of having bad work and attacking another person's work. If he had only had bad work or only attacked another person's work then I would have said nothing, however it was the combination that set me off.

Once again, you are welcome to accuse me of having bad work, same rules as before apply.

Like a mature person would react, or at the very least leave personal attacks on someone else's work out of the discussion when it's not directed toward you.
Interesting oppintion. So, if the discussion is directed towards me I can attack his work, but if directed towards something I care about I can not? In other words, you expect me to care more about myself than anything else?

I agree that Hyskoa is pushing things and being an instigator, but it is his "opinion" and calling him an ignorant prick doesn't help the situation in any way.
So he is entitled to his oppinion but we aren't entitled to ours?

Again.. still attacking his work, while getting mad that he insulted your teachers. You're not showing any more maturity than Hyskoa, so what's your point? Would it make sense for me to go check your sketchbook and randomly insult your art just because you're insulting Hyskoa's work? I'd say that would be pretty damn stupid.
If you notice I have already invited you to do so.

That said, I think a lot of people need to calm down.. namely Hyskoa and Peter Coene. This thread should be locked.
I'm perfectly calm, insulting yes, but calm none the less.

[Sorknes]

Art is about controversity. Everybody is entitled to have opinions, no matter their technical skill.

I'm not good myself. Does that mean I can have no opions about Rembrandt, van Gogh, Matisse, da Vinci? As well as the more modern? Does that mean I'm not a good buyer for the art either, since I have no skill as just an art "looker"?

*wanders off to have opinions about Sonic drawings in DA, asspatting every single one*

[el coro]

i think that starting a thread where you can poke fun at a couple of artists' work who you dont personally know and, and who have never done anything to you in any way, is elitist, mean spirited, AND ignorant. nobody really took the bait and wanted to trash talk them in that ill informed steven assael post dude, so why you gotta make a new thread about it? i have some advice for overly opinionated art students like yourself- tuck em way under your hat til you know shit. if you are really lucky, maybe you will learn enough to realize those opinions are ill-formed before you spew them like you know something.

hysoka, you are just as bad dude...sometimes the elitist attitudes and misinformed ideas i see perpetuated onthese boards just makes me sad. you guys arent going to learn how to be artists by jacking off to comic books and realist painters you heard other people say are good. its a big world, be open to whats out there. even if you dont like it you should question what it is that draws some people to it.

[Peter Coene]

Art is about controversity. Everybody is entitled to have opinions, no matter their technical skill.

I'm not good myself. Does that mean I can have no opions about Rembrandt, van Gogh, Matisse, da Vinci? As well as the more modern? Does that mean I'm not a good buyer for the art either, since I have no skill as just an art "looker"?

*wanders off to have opinions about Sonic drawings in DA, asspatting every single one*
Of course everyone has a right to their oppinion... some oppinions are just more relevant. For example, if DaVinci were to wake from the dead and say that Rob Clayton's work sucks I'd be a lot less likely to say "stfu" than I am with Hyskoa.

[NoSeRider]

i have some advice for overly opinionated art students like yourself- tuck em way under your hat til you know shit. if you are really lucky, maybe you will learn enough to realize those opinions are ill-formed before you spew them like you know something.

That's the catch 22.

You don't know unless you ask....and if you don't ask you still won't know shit.

It's an art forum, right?

Besides, my opinions did lack emotion, just personal experiences, and a need to further those experiences.
Peter Coene added to those experiences.....the rest, by others, was just little opinionated and bullying.

[Mike Corriero]

Also, if you notice what I did was to call Hyskoa on being a hypocrite for attacking another artist while having crappy art himself. There was 2 parts to that and therefore to be a hypocrite I would not only need to be attacking his work but to have crappy myself.
Now, you are welcome to make that claim, however remember that your orriginal complaint about the way I was conducting myself was insulting another person's artwork. To call me a hypocrite would require you to insult my artwork, therefore making you a hypocrite as well.


Whether you have crappy work yourself or not isn't an issue here...
I won't comment on your art because I'm not a Hypocrite, and by calling you a Hypocrite I don't need to insult your work. That assessment is made based on your comments. If you're against someone insulting another persons work and then you turn around and do the same thing yourself, you're a Hypocrite.

I've made no such attempt to demean, trash or criticize your work...but you're the one who did.... toward Hyskoa.

I'm not saying Hyskoa isn't wrong, or that he isn't being immature or insulting toward someones work. I'm just saying, that by getting all worked up about it and insulting his work you're no better than he is. This has nothing to do with me needing to crit your work and or throw myself in this hole as well...eventhough I'm sure you'd love for me to say shit about your work so you can make some sense of your reply to my post. You're sitting on a high horse there with some of your remarks.
Mike -

[Pavel Sokov]

To each his own, but this guys work seems EXTREMELY gimmicky to the point that it is just blatant. Which is why I think the original poster wanted to trash talk this artist.
Sometimes an artist just expresses himself a certain way, but sometimes he draws to elicit a certain responce from people, and that is the case here i find. Its like he wasnt insulting the guys artistic talent, but more the materialistic attitude behind the artists creation, that may or may not exist.

but I mean people enjoy it in some cases and Im glad :) to each his own.

[Peter Coene]

Whether you have crappy work yourself or not isn't an issue here...
I won't comment on your art because I'm not a Hypocrite, and by calling you a Hypocrite I don't need to insult your work. That assessment is made based on your comments.
Unless my art sucks then your assessment, regaurdless of what you based it on, is incorrect.

If you're against someone insulting another persons work and then you turn around and do the same thing yourself, you're a Hypocrite.
But I'm not against someone insulting someones work. Instead I'm against someone who sucks at art insulting someones work. Thus I cannot be a called a hypocrite unless my work sucks.

So far you are the one who claims to be against someone insulting another person's work.

I've made no such attempt to demean, trash or criticize your work...but you're the one who did.... toward Hyskoa.
yeah I did, what are you trying to prove?

I'm not saying Hyskoa isn't wrong, or that he isn't being immature or insulting toward someones work.
good, you'd be pretty stupid if you were.

I'm just saying, that by getting all worked up about it and insulting his work you're no better than he is.
Once again, not worked up. If I was I'd probably get all pissy and punch a pillow or something. You see, I have to be calm to type. I'm still typing, therefore you can be sure that I'm not worked up.

This has nothing to do with me needing to crit your work and or throw myself in this hole as well
Wrong again. Now, read carefully. I am not against anyone insulting another person's work, I am against a crappy artist insulting someone's work. Therefore to be a hypocrite I must be a crappy artist who insults other people's work.

If I am not a crappy artist then all I did was insult another person's work, an act I am not against and therefore I am not a hypocrite. If I am a crappy artist who insulted his work then I am a hypocrite.

...eventhough I'm sure you'd love for me to say shit about your work so you can make some sense of your reply to my post.
I don't care either way. In proving me to be a hypocrite you prove yourself to be one, in avoiding being a hypocrite yourself you have to stop calling me one. Both options are in my favor.

[Flake]

Semantics rock.

[GriNGo]

Hey Peter Coene, I really think you should go draw or something... you spend way too much time in the lounge bro... well anyways, back to the original topic, i think the Clayton Brothers work is pretty kick ass. & the variety of quality and themes in their work is astounding... "low-brow" art never ceases to astonish me... everybody linked to their movement seems to be great artists!

[Robert.B]

I dont meen to make light or to go off tangent wih the obvious relevant issues being discussed here, but i just wanted to say I think there are allot of valid points being discussed and Im glad that we all can self check one another and agree on the fact that humility and respect are only ways to become better artist and better people.

[Mike Corriero]

Peter,
But I'm not against someone insulting someones work. Instead I'm against someone who sucks at art insulting someones work. Thus I cannot be a called a hypocrite unless my work sucks.
Grow up and try to make some sense when you post, otherwise stop waisting your time. As mentioned why don't you go draw instead of posting in the lounge 10 times a day.

[wesburt]

I agree that Hyskoa is pushing things and being an instigator, but it is his "opinion" and calling him an ignorant prick doesn't help the situation in any way.

[/B]


no, i think it was warranted by the way he was acting. he knows what he was doing. i'm not going to come around and chastise him like he's a toddler, i was calling it how i saw it and that was my opinion.

[wesburt]

That's the catch 22.

You don't know unless you ask....and if you don't ask you still won't know shit.

It's an art forum, right?

Besides, my opinions did lack emotion, just personal experiences, and a need to further those experiences.
Peter Coene added to those experiences.....the rest, by others, was just little opinionated and bullying.


there's a difference between asking/starting a discussion and just starting a thread by saying youre "throwing some bunnies in the lion cage and see what happens."

[NoSeRider]

Quote:
I guess the Clayton brothers would talk about Robert Williams who started Juxtapoz Magazine or Mark Ryden or something.
I guess it's a Collage Bauhaus Art kinda thing maybe?

Yes, though thats not all. When I took Rob's class he also referred to Mike Hassar, Peter DeSeve, Mary Blaire, Barron Storey, and quite a few others.

Hey, this is what I'm going to get out of it, and I'm going to look up these artists over google and youtube and learn something.

Everything else seems irrelevant. Thanks Peter Coene.

Is this an art forum or not?

[Peter Coene]

Peter,

Grow up and try to make some sense when you post, otherwise stop waisting your time. As mentioned why don't you go draw instead of posting in the lounge 10 times a day.
What I said made perfect sense and I explained it multiple times. At this point if you don't understand it then you only have yourself to blame. Also, how do you know that I am NOT drawing?

[Pavel Sokov]

But I'm not against someone insulting someones work. Instead I'm against someone who sucks at art insulting someones work. Thus I cannot be a called a hypocrite unless my work sucks.


What? How does that make sense? You think you are somehow exempt from being a hypocrite if your work doesn't suck? Well there is one hole in that plan...its that you work sucks.

so does that make you a hypocrite now by ur own logic?

jeeze, i didnt even look at ur art, i just want u to feel what its like to have ur art insulted.

[sve]

No, Peter Coene, you are not making perfect sense. Objectively. Insulting is against rules on this forum and a sign of weakness and immaturity. If the rules are rules it should be so for any member of the forum, be it an administrator, moderator or new comer. Critique is welcome. Critique can be harsh but it should be sincere and make sense. Make constructive critique and do it in the thread where his art is in discussion (this will be his sketch book or in another thread specifically devoted to his artwork).

He can criticize any work even if he is not an artist. Insults are against rules. I'm not sure his post is an insult, just negative opinion maybe baseless. Art is matter of taste, what do you expect? it will be diversity of opinions.
You are welcome to my sketch book to criticize my work in any harsh way.

[NoSeRider]

Originally Posted by Hyskoa View Post
Artcenter is probably going broke due to the bad economy and is hiring teachers straight from the back alley behind their own school.

These clayton brothers probably came from a poverty strikken home and had never even seen a paintbrush before they were hired from artcenter and were ordered to make shiny stuff to put online.

It's a sad ... 100 years actually, for education.

I've seen you guys get off on lessor comments.

[Peter Coene]

What? How does that make sense? You think you are somehow exempt from being a hypocrite if your work doesn't suck? Well there is one hole in that plan...its that you work sucks.

so does that make you a hypocrite now by ur own logic?

jeeze, i didnt even look at ur art, i just want u to feel what its like to have ur art insulted.
... right, and the fact that you didn't look took the sting right out of the insult.

No, Peter Coene, you are not making perfect sense. Objectively. Insulting is against rules on this forum and a sign of weakness and immaturity. If the rules are rules it should be so for any member of the forum, be it an administrator, moderator or new comer.
As you have pointed out that it is against the rules I will stop making insults, however the reason that what I said is not making sense is because you are not reading it in the right mindset. However, since I don't feel like spelling out the logic a 5th time and you aren't accusing me of hypocracy I will let it slide.

He can criticize any work even if he is not an artist. Insults are against rules. I'm not sure his post is an insult, just negative opinion maybe baseless. Art is matter of taste, what do you expect? it will be diversity of opinions.
In that case I would like my statements to be re-qualified as negative opinion, rather than as insults.

You are welcome to my sketch book to criticize my work in any harsh way.
I may just take you up on that offer.

[squidmonk3j]

the ability to laugh at and ridicule the emperor's new clothing is an absolute necessity...especially when successful mass-production of emptiness is a fact.

[s.ketch]

Why use words when you can ridicule someone else's art with your own. We're all artists here, you feel a certain way, you paint it. You have an opinion, paint it. Do it enough and you become famous. You don't like these guys' work, Warhol the shit out of it, post it, everyone wins. You get practice and you get to be opinionated. Then people would stop telling you to draw all the time.

[Peter Coene]

Why use words when you can ridicule someone else's art with your own. We're all artists here, you feel a certain way, you paint it. You have an opinion, paint it. Do it enough and you become famous. You don't like these guys' work, Warhol the shit out of it, post it, everyone wins. You get practice and you get to be opinionated. Then people would stop telling you to draw all the time.

... you do realise that by putting this idea into my head you have possibly given rise to a thing of pure evil, right?

[s.ketch]

... you do realise that by putting this idea into my head you have possibly given rise to a thing of pure evil, right?

As long as I don't have to keep arguing with you in 4 different threads every day, I don't care. If you choose to go paint something, I would be glad to critique it though. :D

[sve]

Yes, if you think you have a holy right to insult people, then you make perfect sense and you are not making phony statements. But have you this right? has anyone?
Here is what I think about difference between a negative opinion about art and insults.
If you have functioning eyes you are qualified to have an opinion about art and if you want you can say it out loud. That would be an opinion, negative or not. It meant to express your current impression about art and doesn't carry any other function.
I want to emphasize the word "art", not artist's personality.

If you want to stop your opponent from talking and use your words about his art as means to disparage... or to boost your own ego belittling another person... you are insulting. So the goal is to put a plug into his mouth.
His post was sincere, spare of moment negative opinion, he didn't mean to say anything but his impression. Yours are qualified for insults.

What should I think about sincerity of your statements if in the same post you promise to stop insults and a bit later want to requalify them as negative opinion. If you know they were meant as insults, who you want to fool: other people or yourself? did you know insults are not appropriate between decent people? Did you feel touch of hypocrisy in yourself when you wrote this post? if not then you are fooling yourself IMO.

Critique... I will gladly do and will be harsh if that's what you like.
where? In your blog? Likewise. I want you to do the same.

[NoSeRider]

I thought this thread was about the Clayton brothers and their contribution to Lowbrow Art and Art Center?.....how it could possibly be related towards your art education?

I don't know, I'm just funny that way.

I'm not taking responsibility for this. I just made some benign statements.

[jadefoodog]

Hyskoa, do yourself a favor and take the test.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67659

Art Center has popped out people like Syd Mead, Feng Zhu and Scott Robertson...so take a chill pill, OK?

both of them are being fucking obnoxious i dont give a shit who is right they are wasting the little spare time i have for internt playing with thier stupid little pissing contest

[NoSeRider]

You guys are the ones that are hijacking the thread.

If you're not talking about Art Center or the Clayton Brothers art, then you're going off topic.

It's call deductive reasoning.

[Peter Coene]

Ok, after looking back at this I want to appologise for being an asshole. Technically, by using a twist in semantics I wasn't a hypocrite so I won't gine an appology for that, however that doesn't make me any less of a prick. In fact in explaining why I am not a hypocrite (which is still the truth) I acted as more of an ass.

I feel that I owe some type of explanation, and while it may be a weak one it still gives some bit of undersanding to how I act; When I am right or feel strongly about one thing I have a tendency to do anything in my ability to tell others that I am right. What you saw here was something that hit close to home for me, and so I ruffled my feathers and did a few things that perhapse were not right so that I wouldn't have to let off on the thing that was. After that an erroneous claim was made about me being hypocritical, and after examination of what I had done I found that while "asshole" "prick" "breaking forum rules" and a whole lot of other terms could have been rightfully used against me in that situation "hypocrityical" technically could not. In trying to point that out I made those other terms apply more, however not caring because I knew that I was right about that one part. Once again, sorry about that, and also sorry for taking things so far off topic.

[TheDirtSyndicate]

Hyskoa, do yourself a favor and take the test.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67659

Art Center has popped out people like Syd Mead, Feng Zhu and Scott Robertson...so take a chill pill, OK?


i got "LOW" on everything... what does that mean?

[Peter Coene]

i got "LOW" on everything... what does that mean?
It means you are boring :P

[Mr.Razorblades]

This artwork makes my brain want to stab my eyes out.

[steve kim]

OP: If you wanted a real discussion about the Clayton Brother's, the markets they operate in or whatever, etc, you wouldn't have phrased the post as you did. What you were looking for is some kind of art pissing match, and for a long while it looked like no one was going to bite (I was keeping tabs since I had Rob Clayton for a class)... but eventually I guess you got what you wanted.

Last I checked it was called ArtCenter, not the ClaytonBrothersCenter or whatever. Blanket statements about one instructor, in one sub-section of one major and how they epitomize an entire school (with its 9 majors and HUNDREDS of instructors) is beyond idiotic.

The majority of conceptart.org art is only a SUBSET of what falls under the illustration umbrella in not just ArtCenter, but just about the rest of world. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's certainly nothing wrong with posting work outside of the ca's comfort zone to share, enlighten and discuss, but again, that is not this thread.

Perhaps before figuring out the complicated world of art, you should figure out simpler concepts behind tact and decorum.

steve

[NoSeRider]

Also, the teachers don't keep their jobs if there is no demand for their classes. Apparently students keep asking for these classes and so they keep taking them.

And as a student you are in no place to say what is worth being taught and what isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSeRider View Post
I'm just wondering what the Clayton brothers refer to when they do a piece of art like this?
A lot of it is symbolism from their own childhood.

Quote:
I guess the Clayton brothers would talk about Robert Williams who started Juxtapoz Magazine or Mark Ryden or something.
I guess it's a Collage Bauhaus Art kinda thing maybe?
Yes, though thats not all. When I took Rob's class he also referred to Mike Hassar, Peter DeSeve, Mary Blaire, Barron Storey, and quite a few others.

Quote:
But the Clayton brothers are breaking the 'rules'....that's probably why your eyes hurt.
They are not teaching entertainment type art, different rules apply.

Quote:
I go to an Atelier and they talk about Fechin, Sargent, Homer and whatever artist that the Clayton brothers seem to be discarding.
Those artists are also talked about at Art Center, however that is in the Entertainment tracks while the Claytons teach more in the Illustrative Fine Arts, or whatever you want to call it.

Hey, me and Peter Coene had an enlightening conversation. It's the rest of you guys that wanna troll.

You want to talk about art or how your feelings got hurt?

And by the way, when are you guys going to talk about Lowbrow art or Kitsch or anything besides decorum?
I got tired of waiting around.

[Peter Coene]

I thought this whole discussion was done and over with when I proved the naysayers wrong by being an asshole then appologising for it.

Neolite, unless you have a specific reason which applies to the market that the Clayton bros sell in that explains why you don't like it then I can only consider you to be talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about.

[Mr.Razorblades]

Nope, I don't know really anything about art, but I can truly say that these pieces in my imo make want to gouge my eyes out, and I'm for abstract and breaking rules, but sometimes complete nonsense does not work, in any way.

[~Faust~]

Honestly, the work of the Clayton-Brothers do appeal to me, after having seen them for the first time now. Technically I do not see all those flaws you guys are talking about. In fact, the randomness about the subjects, the composition and the colors is what appeals to me the most, sometimes I get sick of this fast-food 1-focus attitude that seems to be seen as the holy grail sometimes around here. I understand if the academic approach is being ignored because it's so often used to pre-digest everything for the viewer, just to sell something.

[Jason Snair]

I actually really like the Clayton Bros...a lot. Sure, it's not the kind of stuff you would see on this site for instance, it's not the same market at all really, but I do think their work is beautiful.