simple illustration of edges

[dorian]

I know it's nothing fancy, but maybe it's helpful to one or two people ;]
It was made for a friend who was confused about edges

Comments/expansion-suggestions are welcome!

[Dizon]

Thanks! THis is helpful!

Lovely painting, by the way. Who did that?

[Leo Snow]

>>>Who did that?
i think artist is Frederich von Amerling :D

[armando]

I think more people would understand the concept of edges quiker if was called "value gradation" instead, although the word "edges" does hint that it's related to planes half the time... perhaps "gradation of planes"? I suppose "ridges" could also be used. Could use the words "sharp", "dull", "smooth", instead of "hard" etc.
Just realized that "edges" also calls attention to the fact that pictures are made of shapes. So it seems the first thing to teach is looking for isolated shapes on a flat plane, and then describing the gradations that more or less seperate those shapes.

[dorian]

Very good point armando!

Value Change = Form Change should be on there!
And maybe a second one would be good that shows 3D models in three quarter and profile as well as the tone gradation boxes

Can anyone think of a better way to phrase or explain Value Change Character = Form Change Character? (sudden tone change equals sudden form change, slow tone change slow form change, etc.)


patdzon: it was indeed Von Amerling :)
Friedrich von Amerling (April 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_14), 1803 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1803)–January 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_14), 1887 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887)) was an Austro-Hungarian portrait painter in the court of Franz Josef (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria). He was born in Vienna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna) and was court painter between 1835 and 1880 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1880). With Ferdinand Georg Waldmüller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Georg_Waldm%C3%BCller) he is one of the outstanding Austrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian) portrait painters of the 19th century.

[Elwell]

I can't help but feel there's some reinvention of the wheel (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51913) going on here...;)

[Elwell]

Here's a diagrammatic example. The last pair are particularly important, because they illustrate how intertwined edges, values, and contrast are. Sometimes what seems like a value problem is really an edge problem, and vice-versa.

371334

[Blackhawk]

Awesome example Elwell.

The original picture is a great example of edges, even though the practice and idea of edges is complicated and many different things can change an edge, from blending to just a simple change in value or even the hue of the color.

Edges aren't just value gradations, as you can have two very sharp edged shapes next to each other with solid blocks of value that are very close to each other and they will have a perceived soft edge even though in reality it could be razor sharp. It's similar to doing a value chart, putting two close value steps next to each other, squinting your eyes, and watching the values blend.

Also you can have two similar valued colors next to each other with a different hue and blend the edges together and it would make a perceived soft edge of two different values, but it will have no change in actual value if you were to make the painting monochromatic. It's also a handy tool to use if you are trying to conserve values in a painting.

[mentler]

Dorian,

How would you like to be a monitor
at SoFA for our outline workshop.

Need a realist advocate to balance
my classical views.

It currently inclines to much to
working from memory.

Would love to have you to take a look
at it when you get the chance.

My approach would ideally be
one third from life, one third from memory
and one third from time tested
reference.

[Kai H]

Thank you. Great tutorial.

I saw your stuff today in the angel academy exhibition. Your drawings are really beautiful :)

[dorian]

Elwell: oh, great thread! Not trying to reinvent the wheel :] That's a really good illustration, too, makes an important point!

Blackhawk: more good stuff, thanks! Yes I guess one could go really deep with this and it probably has been done to a great extent already - it's probably good to sometimes read the same in different words, though!

mentler: ahm :bashful: that flatters me, not sure if I'm qualified! I'll go take a look and let you know!

baretul: AH! Thanks :] Let's go sketch!! Check your pm! :)

[Kai H]

I tried to send you message that it would be ok to meet up soon and sketch. Althou between the few days when the trimester ends and when i fly to home for the summer, because now I have to work all the evenings and weekends to finnish my second bargue :)... But it said that your PM mailbox is full, and it couldnt get trough.

In the same second that I put the send button my mom called me that my brother is propably coming over for the last 4 days. So my time here is now totally booked full :(...

But can I pm you on fall? I would love to sketch for a while.

[dorian]

oops! opened up inbox! check pm :]

[Chris Bennett]

I tend to think of edges as a point where 'something happens' That 'something' can be abrupt, slowly or very subtle. And the content of that change can be to do with the turning of form, the change of colour or value....even the intensity of texture.

[MindCandyMan]

Awesome thanks so much Dorian! This really rocks.

I will add this to the discussion as well. Edges in a painting all rely on relationships. So imagine that you are doing a drawing of something a 6h pencil. Your value range is going to be squeezed and it is going to be in the lighter part of the value range. Your lightest light (probably the paper) and your darkest dark (not very dark with a 6h pencil) will be the value scale you will be forced to work within on the drawing.

Edges can be treated the same way. As long as your edges relate properly you can use any Edge Range that you want. Jean Baptiste Greuze understood this when he did this painting called, "The Dreamer". All of his edges (in the face primarily) are softer than you would see in reality because this woman is dreaming. He used his knowledge of edges to communicate what he wanted with the painting. How is it that the painting still holds up and looks correct and representative of nature? It's because all the edges relate properly even though they are in a different range. Check it out:

I was blown away by this painting when I saw it in reality. It stopped me in my tracks Great stuff.

383369

[Helioth]

Awesome thanks so much Dorian! This really rocks.

I will add this to the discussion as well. Edges in a painting all rely on relationships. So imagine that you are doing a drawing of something a 6h pencil. Your value range is going to be squeezed and it is going to be in the lighter part of the value range. Your lightest light (probably the paper) and your darkest dark (not very dark with a 6h pencil) will be the value scale you will be forced to work within on the drawing.

Edges can be treated the same way. As long as your edges relate properly you can use any Edge Range that you want. Jean Baptiste Greuze understood this when he did this painting called, "The Dreamer". All of his edges (in the face primarily) are softer than you would see in reality because this woman is dreaming. He used his knowledge of edges to communicate what he wanted with the painting. How is it that the painting still holds up and looks correct and representative of nature? It's because all the edges relate properly even though they are in a different range. Check it out:

I was blown away by this painting when I saw it in reality. It stopped me in my tracks Great stuff.

383369

Thanks for sharing, seems like one of those things that sticks.

By the way, was Lawrence a renowned plagiarist ?
Seems oddly Shakespearian.

[dorian]

nice!! great way to think of it & great example!
thanks man!

I was thinking if one should generally use a maximum range and variety of edges but I guess that very much depends on the subject, style and medium?

[MindCandyMan]

Helioth - Oh no I hope lawrence wasn't a plagiarist...perhaps I should change my quote heheh. You know now that you mention it...it sure does some shakespearian. Hmm I should check on that.

dorian - I think you are right that it depends on the subject and the style, etc... Most of the time nature will dictate what your edges should be like...for instance on a rainy day the edges are very soft. But I think the difference comes when people try to copy the "exact" edges that they see, as opposed to understanding the relationships.

[Elwell]

Jim Gurney has some discussion on edges and depth on his excellent blog (http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2008/06/depth-and-edges.html) today.

[dorian]

must read!!
thanks Tristan!