Prismacolor smearing ink, what do u use?

[m.wellman]

Hi everyone,

through trial and error, i have been looking for a long time a way to mix a black ink nib marker with prismacolor gray markers. I always get the same problem, the prismacolor marker will smear the linework! Ive a few diffrent black pens and diffrent kinds of paper, but i always get the same result.

Can anyone suggest a black nub marker that will work well with the prismacolor markers?? (no smearing)

I havnt tried the copic multiliner series yet, any thoughts? or other suggestions?

thank you :)

[Homeless Foxman]

You could always do the linework very lightly and go over it afterwards. Couldn't you use the thin end of the prismacolor markers as well? I don't know much about markers so I couldn't tell you any pens that don't smear with prismacolor.

[m.wellman]

I could, but when drawing with markers I tend to jump back and forward from the black linework to the tonal gray markers, following my intuition on what needs more work as i progress through. thats when the smearing tends to happen.

I havnt actually tried the smaller end of the black prismacolor marker because, even though it is smaller, it is still to big to get in for sketching smaller details.

[Anid Maro]

What's probably happening is that your pen is scratching into the surface and filling it with ink... which means it's gonna take a while to dry.

So you're looking for something that isn't gonna do that (namely, without a nub).

I myself use Microns for technical linework (essentially very fine tipped disposable markers) and brushes for less technical linework.

If you have some a little money to spend, you could look into some of the refillable technical pens (Copic Multiliner, Rotring Rapidograph, et cetera). I haven't any experience with them myself, but they ought to work similarly to Microns (fine lines, quick drying, no scratching). Although as forewarning, I hear that these sorts of pens (Rapidograph in particular) are notoriously annoying to clean.

[pvrhye]

Pencils should still show through prismas so you can see your lines. You could just work from light to dark.

[Mirana]

Microns will smudge with markers too, if I remember correctly. I did a set of smudge and fade tests a while back and I can tell you:

Copic liners and Pilot smudge (Copics were the worst, actually).
Triplus and Penstix fade to sepia within a month.

Faber-Castell Pitt Pens retained their color (were the darkest, in fact...and it's been over a yr in a well-lit room) and did not smudge at all. After that, you can use waterproof inks with re-fillable pens (watered down, if need be).

[J Wilson]

It may not be entirely the pen. Also consider your paper, or the amount of time you give the ink to dry before working over it.

I use Pigma Microns and I usually get minimal smudging with the paper I use. For paper I have used everything from regular computer paper to smooth press illustration board or bristol. Paper made for markers I find is a little more "bleedy", probably because they want the tones to be able to blend well. I usually prefer to not use that kind.

[m.wellman]

thanks for all your replies! :)

I did a test using my faber-castell nubby markers (i really dont what these type of markers are called), a sharpy super fine tip marker and a pilot g-tec-c4 pen and gave them all ample time to dry. the faber castel worked amazingly on plain copy paper. the sharpy quality was literaly destoyed, the color was no longuer black but, as mirana mentionned with the Triplus and Penstix, imidiatly turned to a sepia like color before my eyes. and the pilot worked well too, but was by far the worst if i didnt leave it time to dry (a very long time as i have tested). wich is unfortunate cause it's the finest point for detail in my aresenal.

I was going to invest in the copics multiliner series but now im not sure, they do advertise no smudging with the copic markers but when i inquired my local supply store they told me that the copic markers are alchool based and the prisma markers are (isotone?) based and that the smudge proof claim may not hold true. from the looks of it mirana already tested it and didnt it didnt work out. I guess I'll stick with the faber-castel and see if theres anything in their line thats really really fine.

Pvrhye - I have a friend who works with prisma blue col-erase and markers and the stuff looks stellar, makes for a very unique look.

Anid - awesome Curvilinear Perspective (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123667), I would really digg trying to thumbnail something out using that to see how the results would turn out.

[Mirana]

Uh, actually Prismacolor are alcohol-based (http://prismacolor.com/sanford/consumer/prismacolor/product/subCategory.jhtml?subCat=SNPRCat100061) as well. Not that art store employees are the best trained, but that's sorta basic knowledge.

The copic liners I used were straight from Tokyo and were allowed to dry fora good 30 mins like the others before I applied Prismacolor over the top. Major smudging...which seemed very odd given their obvious relation to the markers. FYI, I always use art-grade bristol for marker and ink work (marker paper is really obnoxious).

Pitt pens do come in finer sizes (F and S), but they still aren't as hairline thin as the refillable, steel nib types. If you get to doing a lot of inking or marker work, you'll invest in those eventually. ;)

[tensai]

I don't know about all the configurations out there or how things differ, but I personally don't get smudging with either Microns or Deleter Neopiko or the Copic Multiliners for linework combined with Copic markers on regular Japanese office paper or marker blocks or kent papers.

[m.wellman]

....but they still aren't as hairline thin as the refillable, steel nib types. If you get to doing a lot of inking or marker work, you'll invest in those eventually. ;)

are you talking about the copic multiliners? or other suggestions?

I am planning on picking up refilable markers soon.. if you know of any that worked perticularly well for you I would like to hear about it.

[Mirana]

Rapidographs and their ilk.