Practicing strategy help

[JParrilla]

Hi guys, I am 18 years old and starting college in september. I always loved art and I have never really thought about getting serious about it until recently. I never really became a good artist because I would just always doodle for fun and never take it seriously. I recently realized that my love for art, movies, and video games really would make a great combination for a possible career in art. Ive searched for resources and Ive compiled TONS of books/tutorials on art, going from the basics to the advanced. My problem is that I feel like I just dont know how to practice, if that makes any sense at all :) I have all the resources available and I pretty much dont know what to do with them. For instance I look through the Andew Loomis books and Im not sure exactly what to practice. Should I copy the examples in the book until I can get them perfect without looking? Should I just look at the examples and try to draw on my own without looking? I find myself reading the text in the book and looking at the drawings and not knowing at all what to do with it. Ive played guitar for 8 years and I know that I used to play scales over and over, practice chords, learn songs, etc. I really never "practiced" drawing before. I really want to improve soo badly.. Im so determined. Im going to be taking a life drawing class very soon but I know that most of my improvement will happen when Im at home drawing. I hope this makes sense to you guys because I dont even know if it makes sense to me :) I hope someone can help me out here.. sorry for the long post, I had alot to say..

[Wasker]

Copy every drawing in loomis books (heck, copy everything in every book you got, not just the drawing ones), read every word and draw everything around you. Learn about muscles and bones, do value scales and work from imagination. Take life drawing courses and copy photos. Try every material you get your hands on. If you want to go advanced from the start get some bargues and a plaster cast or two and do some long studies.

Listen to Elwell.


That's about it.

[fanficbug]

Listen to Elwell.

Damn straight. :D

[JParrilla]

I was under the impression that copying (even if its not just for the sake of copying) isnt the best learning method. I guess I was wrong :) Any other suggestions for me ?

[Maidith]

- Look at pictures by artists you admire, and try to figure out things. How do they handle light and color? What edges are sharp, and what edges are soft? Why do they use that particular color there? What technique did they use? How did they work? The more you look at work of others, the more different kinds of styles and techniques you will see.

- Learn from the masters. Copy works you adore. Not for imitating the artist or showcasing your copy, but for the sake of learning. Don't be shy, ask your favorite artist everything you want to know, such as "What paper do you draw on?", or "How do you go about painting a picture, do you start with a sketch?", etc. But be specific, don't ask "how can I paint like that?". And check the artist's website, chances are they already have tutorials, a FAQ or step-by-step tutorials there.

- Challenge yourself. Never used a particular medium? Then buy it, no matter how poor you are, and try it out. Never drawn a still life? Do it. Never used that particular color scheme? Give it a try. At a certain point, when you are afraid of repeating yourself, you are on the right track to improve.

- Use reference. If you aim for realism, you can't paint most things straight from your imagination. The old masters always made preliminary studies of life models, and did most paintings from life models too. For example, if you are unsure how to paint a head with the light source from below, look up a photo, or take it yourself, or have someone pose for it. It is worth every effort!
Stock photos from deviantartists can be a valuable resource also and provide inspiration.
Here's an article about why reference is even more than a crutch, but essential for artists who paint realistic illustrations: http://maidith.deviantart.com/journal/15788173/

- Draw from life. It's probably the most valuable practice that there is. Sign up for a life drawing class so that you'll be actually "forced" to do it. Believe me, it works wonders.
As for studying anatomy from books about figure drawing (Loomis, Bammes, etc.) a good exercise is to copy the body parts and figures in there and then trying to draw the same from your mind to see how much you remembered.

- Look up tutorials. Browse through the tutorial section and study the many different ways and media of the different artists. Also visit the websites of the great artists here - many have tutorials up there.

- Collect pictures. On my harddisk, I have different folders: 1) one for old master oil paintings, 2) Modern master oil paintings, 3) Different kinds of watercolor paintings, 4) Great digital art images 5) paintings by Linda Bergkvist, and 6) a folder of cool anime art.
They are very inspiring to browse through and can give you new ideas in terms of technique. Whenever I feel uninspired, I look through my folders.
The images I've collected over time, mainly from Cgtalk.com, Deviantart, Epilogue, Artrenewal.org and many other websites.

[Farvus]

I was under the impression that copying (even if its not just for the sake of copying) isnt the best learning method. I guess I was wrong Any other suggestions for me ?

It's not exactly copying to me. You can draw from photo as you would draw from life. For example put only parts of picture it that are most essential, play with contrast to get focal point or draw only with lines. Still, it's better to draw from real 3d objects.

I would add to that list learning basics of perspective and practicing it without ruler.

[Elwell]

Listen to Elwell.


Ooh, I must have said something good! What was it?

[Coinpurse]

Elwell has a larger fan base than chuck norris :)

[Anid Maro]

Elwell has a larger fan base than chuck norris :)

Jesus may have walked on water, but Elwell swam through land.

[HunterKiller_]

Ooh, I must have said something good! What was it?

I think it was something about something being about more than 50?

Could be wrong here.

[Maidith]

Originally Posted by Coinpurse View Post
Elwell has a larger fan base than chuck norris
Jesus may have walked on water, but Elwell swam through land.


Chuck Norris walks on the water, but Elwell walks on Chuck Norris.

[Vhan Juju]

When chuck norris told the joke that he counted to infinite twice, Elwell said that was inpossible,

and then people laughfed at chuck norris.

Ewell has the power of common sence...dont underestamate it!

that said, we need to dig up a ton of threads for this guy, just read the forums and see what people have to say, this is a wealth of information right here...

[JParrilla]

lol i love how this turned into a chuck norris thread haha.. I guess it just cant be resisted. Thanks for the advice guys Im going to just pretty much draw everything I guess lol. Loomis examples, things I see, Things i see in my mind, images I love, etc. Im open to all advice possible so if you have anything else I should know, PLEASE tell me :) Im gonna start a sketchbook as soon as I get a scanner as well, hopefully critiques will also help me out

[crumpy]

Hello Mate, I felt like you were discribing me in your first post. and I'm also starting art college in september....and can't wait!

I was under the impression that copying (even if its not just for the sake of copying) isnt the best learning method. I guess I was wrong :) Any other suggestions for me ?

And you'd be rite...
If that’s all you were to do.
Copying teaches you a lot. Just the analysing part gives you so much info. But doing it alone neglects the other side of your artistic ability. The best way I find is to 'copy' something (use a reference, life study or a Loomis anatomy picture...) , then use your skills and what you observe to create something from your imagination.

You could draw a Loomis anatomical view of an arm, then using your imagination draw the arm in a different position from a different angle.
And don't be afraid to make things more interesting and fun. Why not turn that apple into a miniature sci-fi hive city with mini space ports floating around? ect ect

It will always be difficult, especially at first, and you'll be frustrated at how your created images aren’t as good as the copied ones, but that’s the whole point, your copying so you can learn to draw without copying... or by copying from your mind alone....

...lol. now that doesn't make sense. :D

[JParrilla]

Hello Mate, I felt like you were discribing me in your first post. and I'm also starting art college in september....and can't wait!



And you'd be rite...
If that’s all you were to do.
Copying teaches you a lot. Just the analysing part gives you so much info. But doing it alone neglects the other side of your artistic ability. The best way I find is to 'copy' something (use a reference, life study or a Loomis anatomy picture...) , then use your skills and what you observe to create something from your imagination.

You could draw a Loomis anatomical view of an arm, then using your imagination draw the arm in a different position from a different angle.
And don't be afraid to make things more interesting and fun. Why not turn that apple into a miniature sci-fi hive city with mini space ports floating around? ect ect

It will always be difficult, especially at first, and you'll be frustrated at how your created images aren’t as good as the copied ones, but that’s the whole point, your copying so you can learn to draw without copying... or by copying from your mind alone....

...lol. now that doesn't make sense. :D

Thanks alot that was very informative. What you said about the frustration is definetely true. I get so frustrated when I do really nice copies and then when I try to do it from imagination, its usually bad. I guess it will improve with practice like you said. Thanks again for the advice man

[alesoun]

Why imagine? Reality can be fun, too. Use what you learn to draw from life .
Nothing wrong with learning by copying, but you need to apply what you learn.

[JParrilla]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Ive been wondering about something else lately. I know that its really important for a beginner like myself to concentrate on the basics and try to stick to simple things with pencil and try to avoid color. Although I love practicing my figures, anatomy, etc, I still really love to paint in photoshop with color. Although I may not be great at it, Its fun to paste my favorite characters into a PSD file and then reproduce them next to the paste. I usually dont do an exact comp I get a really good idea of colors and shadows and such, then I sorta experiment my own way. I find this to be tons of fun and it really breaks up the monotony of practice. I must admit I sometiems do an exact copy when I really wanna make someting Im proud of :) Do you guys recommend I refrain from doing this? Will it in any way make me a worse artist to jump into coloring in photoshop before I can even properly shade in black and white? Any oppinions on this would be great

[Elwell]

Having fun is the most important part.

Listen to Elwell.

Ooh, I must have said something good! What was it?
That was it.

[JParrilla]

Having fun is the most important part.


That was it.

:) ok thanks.. so im guessing that means its fine

[JParrilla]

Hey I'm bringin this back for another question :) I was wondering what you guys suggest as far as practice time goes.. I don't mean how long but how to break it up. Honestly my least favorite thing is learning and copying from andrew loomis type books. I know these books are so valuble to someone looking to learn but figure drawing in particular gets sort of annoying. There's so much setting up proportions and perspectives I feel like I'm not even creating art sometimes. Nevertheless I know its helpful so I'm going to do it regardless :) my question is do you recommend spending most practice time learning from books like this or actually drawing and sketching from life, reference, imagination, etc? This part is my most favorite but above all I want to improve and if working from these books is the #1 strategy to improve, I'm willing to do it all day :) so can someone help me out with is issue?

[MarkWinters]

When in study mode I try to adhere to the 3 D's: draw from life, draw from imagination and draw from inspiration. Drawing from life can be further subdivided into drawing from anatomy books half the time and drawing from actual life (nude figure and such) half the time, depending on your level of knowledge. (It helps to know what lies underneath the skin that causes it to behave the way it does when you're looking at a model.) Hit those Loomis & Bridgeman books hard - gotta put in the time on the front end to see the dividends payed in full later! :)

[JParrilla]

So dividing my time is a good thing but you would still suggest workin hard with the books.. thanks man..

[JParrilla]

I was wondering if copying art that wasnt meant to be learning material can be a negative for a beginning artist. For example I love the art of Yoji Shinkawa ( artist for the metal gear series) and I love copying his work and also drawing metal gear characters from 3d images i find on google. When I do this it really increases my confidence because I always create better looking work ( obviously because Im copying :) ) Should a beginner try to stick to life drawing and book studying and avoid this "fan art" type of practicing? Or is any art you create going to help you advance?

[Chris Bennett]

Having fun is the most important part.

Just to expand a bit on what Elwell has just said:
Whenever you are working, if it feels good then you are doing it right. Learn to recognise this, because it will be your best and most faithful teacher for the rest of your life.

[Whitevillage]

I was wondering if copying art that wasnt meant to be learning material can be a negative for a beginning artist. For example I love the art of Yoji Shinkawa ( artist for the metal gear series) and I love copying his work and also drawing metal gear characters from 3d images i find on google. When I do this it really increases my confidence because I always create better looking work ( obviously because Im copying :) ) Should a beginner try to stick to life drawing and book studying and avoid this "fan art" type of practicing? Or is any art you create going to help you advance?

Even though I recognize my experience in studies not as high, I'd like to advice this: It's very important to learn the fundementals first, so yes life drawing and book studying is a very important matter. It's better to draw from anatomy books (like Loomis) first then from your favourite artist, because you'll have no idea on how the artist is doing it that way in the first place. If you're more experienced, you can also pick your inspiration and study his works. But just look wat works the best for you in the end to try everything.

[JParrilla]

I guess its a matter of opinion then because WhiteVillage your response was what I was originally thinking but many people have told me to definetely do this if its fun and keeps me motivated. By the way I wasnt asking If I should just copy other work all day. I still spend most of my time life drawing and studying books, I just like to copy my favorite stuff when Im either bored of studying or I just feel like doin a fun drawing

[Elwell]

Stop.
Worrying.
So.
Much.
And.
DRAW.

[JParrilla]

Stop.
Worrying.
So.
Much.
And.
DRAW.

Lol :) ya I know I do worry a lot.. Its just that I have this fear of the idea that I'm putting time and effort into something and not getting the most possible out of it. Maybe I'm thinking into it to much.

[JParrilla]

Hey ive been thinking about this in light of my Yoji Shinkawa thread. I posted there that I found a new love for these brushpens, and Ive been thinking. One of Maidiths "pearls of wisdom" :) was to go out and try all the mediums you can. Now Ive been told many times that I should put a hold on digital work until my traditional skills get a lot better.. Is digital the only medium that beginners are recommended to stay away from initially? Or should I also try to avoid tools like these brushpens and keep to simple pencil work for now? Theres obviously no set rule and I can use whatever I want, but are these pens something that should be held off until more basic skills are acquired? Just curious ;)

[Farvus]

Heh. You're thinking too much. It's good to try as much traditional media as possible. Try what you want. Even toothbrush or wooden stick dipped in ink can be enough.

[JParrilla]

Haha ok thanks man.. I'm gonna stop thinking (well not completely :) ) and just draw my ass off. Thanks for answering my insane questions guys. I keep sayin I'm gonna post my sketchbook but I'm still waitin on a scanner ;) I'm gettin it asap

[JParrilla]

Ok I think I have a legitamate question here that's not due to my worrying and all :) can u guys recommend the best or at least a good way to learn what I guess would be called the "basics" of art? By basics I mean shape, form, light, shadow, etc. I think these are called the elements of art or something? I never really studied basics, loomis' figure drawing is the first learning material I've ever touched. Is learning these basic ideas from a book important or can those basics be learned by drawing from life and such? Loomis is definetely helping my anatomy and figure drawing TONS, but I don't know if its helping me to get better at anything else like shadow, light, form, basic shapes, etc

[fanficbug]

Ok I think I have a legitamate question here that's not due to my worrying and all :) can u guys recommend the best or at least a good way to learn what I guess would be called the "basics" of art? By basics I mean shape, form, light, shadow, etc. I think these are called the elements of art or something? I never really studied basics, loomis' figure drawing is the first learning material I've ever touched. Is learning these basic ideas from a book important or can those basics be learned by drawing from life and such? Loomis is definetely helping my anatomy and figure drawing TONS, but I don't know if its helping me to get better at anything else like shadow, light, form, basic shapes, etc

All drawing tasks are basically the same thing over and over again. Just draw what you see, practice from life, build a mental "image library" that you can refer to and work to really understand it in your imagination. So, to learn those specific things, just draw them. Draw basic shapes, draw thoroughly lit (with plenty of darks and lights) things, etc. If you think you're doing it wrong, post images for critique here.

And of course there's the ever-lovely giant thread o' ebook doom: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94571 See if you can't find something there that looks like it would help. ;)

[JParrilla]

thanks alot my man.. Ive been meaning to find those Bridgman Books for a while but I couldnt find em.. Even Loomis advises to use them for anatomy so they must be good :) Thanks again