Medieval (updated 10-19)

[Erik]

Hi all,

Finally got me a scanner and regained access to my website so i can post some stuff.

Here some concept sketches i did. More are coming soon i hope to keep this up to speed.

I hope to improve my rendering.

Don't hold back the crits i need to learn!

[EDIT 10/11/03 : More pics below]
[EDIT 10/19/03 : New image on page 2]
[EDIT 11/03/03 : See the 3D forum for another attempt :
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13417 ]

A low-ranking knight
http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/knight.jpg

And a 'drafted' soldier, actually a peasant that has been given a spear and told to go fighting. His helmet doesn't fit either ;-)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/soldier.jpg

Can anyone tip me off with how to draw or actually hint the presence of mail without actually drawing each ring? It didn't happen for me...

Regards,

E.

[Unknown Target]

WOW! Those are incredible!

But about the chain male: I dunno, have you tried really small cross hatching?

[Erik]

Hey man, thanks...

They are flawed tho, but i'll probably do em again as preparation for coloring.

The chainmail problem is that cross hatching might work but it's more the areas that are reflecting the light, which is both metallic and gritty because of all the different angles of the metal rings... Then you have a (i think) darker area and a chrome border thing, because the metal will catch the light coming around the edges of the figure.

I can do it with normal metal (sort of), but the chain-mail is much more difficult since it's gritty...

Crosshatching would simply be too clean. It's more like a steel-wool texture if seen from a distance i think.

[Fipse]

Hi Erik,

nice sketches you have, I especially like the charakter of the peasant ;).

Unfortunately I haven´t done much mail lately but I can tell at least how I´m working there may be better ways but I hope it can help you. What I found important is to show that the rings are in rows. Actual examples you can find here http://www.erikdschmid.com/. Furthermore I´m using rendering as I would do for metal.

Here´s an example I have on my server to illustrate how I´m working (unfortunately not geyscale and the example is quite small).
http://www.kriegsherren-von-og.de/webpics/undead-warchief-sketch.jpg (http://)

I hope this could help you a bit.

Fipse

[Erik]

Hey Fipse,

Thank for the reply! I was kind of hoping you would reply with your experience of armour!

I can see what you did, probably a good way to do it, but i'm still unsure of the pencil rendering. I'm going to look at your links now.

Thnx!

E.

[Snowfly]

erik theyre awesome! what are you so ashamed about? i like them for their clarity.

one way ive seen mail done is through very controlled scribbling in a looping pattern in rows, and then doing a once over to darken shadows where needed.

[strych9ine]

These are very nice... I love the pose for the first guy. Very solid character designs with a lot of personality.

[behemot5]

i like it ...good work... some little mistakes but it's praticaly perfect

[Erik]

behemot: thnx -- i'd say: lots of mistakes ;-) -- but point some flaws out you find in it, so i can try and learn ;-)

Strych9ine : thnx for the compliment, i appreciate it

Snowfly : thnx for the tip, i'll try that!

[Erik]

Here some more sketches of additional characters i'll be doing. These are more 'rough' - i will continue by tracing / redrawing them on a new piece of paper and then rendering them nicely.

One is a hammerer of a more barbarian people that may feature in our project, just to see what they might look like. The other one will be a lumberjack. Still trying for the right pose on that one. May restart to get an opposite angle, where his face is visible. I want the tree, his face and the axe in though... not sure what to do.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/hammerer.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/lumberjack.jpg

Tell me what you think

E.

[A.M.]

Awesome man, good shading.

[WildSpruceMoose]

Hmmm these are great because of how they are clean and loose at the same time. From what I can see anyway. The shading on the low-ranking knight is nice and the drafted soldier really doesn't look like he wants to be there.

I know you like constructive crits, but these are really good from my point of view. Just fixing up the chain mail and these are awesome.

[Lost Dragon]

For mail, I've seen people use a sort of zigzag hatching that seems to be pretty effective.

--

[Romulus]

Nice I like the last guy that you updated with the hood..Ranger maybe? hes cool =)

[frankhart31]

For mail...look how artist draw Captain America, some go intricate with detail and others real simple, great source as so many artist have drawn him

[Erik]

First time i ever drew a horse -- it is a so-called 'Shire horse', a heavy draft horse. I want to do an early-medieval type knight on this kind of horse, because they look so damn heavy. I know that this is not how it was in reality.

The thing is i never drew a horse so i have to learn what they are about... proportions got wacky on this one. More will follow, so i can put a knight on.

Strange that i fid out i really don't know how saddles, horses, bridles etc. work ;-) never paid enough attention to those ...

I'll try what happens if i make the head smaller, which will make the body seem bigger.

Here goes:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/horse.jpg

(removed)

[Fipse]

Hi Erik,

I scanned in some examples that maybe can help you. These are illustrations from the historical illustrators Angus McBride and Graham Turner.

Illustration McBride (http://www.kriegsherren-von-og.de/diverses/mcbride1.jpg)

Detail McBride (http://www.kriegsherren-von-og.de/diverses/mcbride2.jpg)

Illustration Turner (http://www.kriegsherren-von-og.de/diverses/turner1.jpg)

Detail Turner (http://www.kriegsherren-von-og.de/diverses/turner2.jpg)

A lot of Fantasy artists don´t know about the physics of mail, how it falls etc. If you want to be exact have a look at some reenactment groups that are wearing mail. I hope this can help you a bit.

Fipse

[Erik]

Wow Fipse,

That is really really great! Thanx a lot for those references!

Are the books that they are from available from Amazon?

Man, that is helpful! I'm going to draw chainmail now ;-)

E.

[poisonspider]

nice work man, can you message me on aim(poisonspider35) or msn(spencer@travel-net.com):eek:

[Fipse]

Hi Erik,

the books are all available over amazon. They belong to the Osprey Military Publishing books you find here: http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/ . The books normally have between 8 and 12 colour-plates. If you want to buy one, have a look at the covers, they´ll tell you if the illustrator is good (you can´t do wrong with McBride, Turner and Embleton). But I think except of Christopher Rothero they normally have high-classed art. In fact I don´t know any other books than the medieval ones (I´ve got about 30 ;))

The Turner Pics are from "German medieval armies 1000-1300" and the McBride ones from "French armies of the hundred years war".

BTW that´s one of the directions I´m heading too - I want to make one of this books with a friend of mine next year and that´s one of the reasons I´m practising a lot. But I still don´t believe I will reach this qualities in this time.

Fipse
(who´s making mail at the moment ;))

[Johann de Venecia]

hi eric. didn't know you had a thread here. :D

really nice perpective on the hooded character-reminds me of dr. doom. the fur on the 'furry' guy could use some improvement though- maybe not making it look like one whole mass by showing the strands in separate clumps. but it is just a sketch anyway.

the horse rocks. :chug:

[Sypha]

Your concepts of anatomy are practically perfect! And your images are well done. The chainmail is perhaps the only minor flaw I see in your previous two images. But, it isn't anything major. Nothing that I would hold against you. Keep posting things like this. You are doing very well!

[Erik]

Sypha: hey thanx, but i don't agree : the anatomy actually is not so good and the horses - well, i'll need to redraw those ...

Fipse: thanx! i'll be ordering some of those! good luck with your chainmail making, i'd love to see a picture when it's done!

Lukavi: yep, just started this thread though, there's not much to see yet ;-) The guy is not actually supposed to be furry, only his 'clothes' - but you're right, when i clean that one up there is room to do it much better.

E.

[Erik]

Another sketch of a knight, drawing from norman influences.

The chainmail is improving, though my rendering does not do justice to the line drawing... :-/

Any crits are appreciated!

Here goes:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~erikedf/art/sketch/knight4.jpg

E.

[Johann de Venecia]

wow, this is much better. two things i really like: the slight tilt in the perspective which compliments his stance greatly, and the short, 'bushy' strokes that you used.

if i could give a crit, it would be on the guy's face. although he is wearing a helmet, maybe you could enhance his facial featuresa bit more. otherwise, everything is great.

keep it up!

ps. love that dragon on his shield. reminds me of ff tactics for some reason. ;)

[Erik]

Hey Lukavi,

Thanx for the crit. I agree about the face, it went a little off when i rendered it... Might touch that up. As well as the shadow on the left leg that should be darkened i think.

The 'dragon' (actually supposed to be a lion) i got from real heraldry designs (type heraldry in Google and you'll see nice examples at the first page)

How does the perspective tilt? I see something odd now that you mention it but i cn't put my finger on it.

E.

[adien]

Hey Erik, great sketches. minor crit on the horse, the muscles in the chest look odd. and yea, the head looks a touch too big, though that's a tough one because shire horses are monsters and their heads are huge. the proportions between normal horses and draft (war) horse are a bit different.

I have some decent refs if you want them.

[Fipse]

Hi Erik,

you´re really doing fine. Your stuff has a good medieval feel to it. I hope I´m not a PITA when I come back once to your mail. Unfortunately I haven´t got my FTP-data at work. Otherwise I would do a small paintover to show you my points.

Your mail is looking fine from the structure but the physics are lacking. It looks a bit like a woolen pullover. Just imagine that all the stuff is quite heavy and due to gravity tends to smooth out. There are few folds because the rings of the mail are interlocked and will shift together.

Maybe this links can help you: http://community.webshots.com/album/53391711CDbEnc
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81276424/82717592IAmaCU
http://community.webshots.com/photo/81276424/82717725mArsbZ

These are taken from Regia Anglorum, one of the best anglo-saxon/viking/norman groups I know.

I really like where your drawings are heading, they would fit fine in a more medieval oriented RPG (some germany may know Midgard - this would be the fitting style of illustration).

Hope I could help you and keep on the medieval work ;)

Fipse

[Johann de Venecia]

regarding the perspective, the fact that the left leg (his left) looks like its behind the right leg and under the tunic gives you the idea that the guy's stance is not presented flatly, and has a slight angle to it. hence the slight tilt. but like i said, it gives a lot to the pose.

[nikia]

Erik, Shire horses were the actual descendents of the war horses heavily armored knights rode into battle. The Shire is the largest horse of all. Some standing almost 6 feet tall and weighing over 2200 pounds. The proportions on your horse are way out. Make the head a bit shorter, forehead wider, nose smaller. Actually if you chopped it off just below the nose, would be about right for the length of the head. Neck a whole lot thicker and huge muscles running from the ear down toward the shoulder. Chest and belly bigger. The belly a lot bigger. Shires have huge barrel bellies. Check out some horse anatomy for the muscle structure on the chest area. The rump's not bad, but the upper portion of the 4 legs are way to small. Thicken all the upper legs areas above the knees and hocks. Also the front legs are too short, and the feathers (long hair on the legs) of a shire are usually curly and start halfway between the hocks and the fetlocks. They hang loose at the back of the legs and feet, and lay close to the skin in the front. More muscle on the upper hind legs. When you ride one of these horses you can feel every muscle working under you. Keep that in mind when you're drawing it. And the eyes are too slanted. Also, horses eyes are a lot like people eyes, wider in the middle, narrowing to the corners.
Although I have to add, not bad for a first time drawing of a horse. This one could almost be a yearling foal, thus justifying the large head. The belly and upper legs would still have to be larger though.