Purchasing question...

[AnarchyAo2]

Hey again. If you guys might have read another thread of mine, you'd know that I'm looking to get into traditional and fine arts. So, I'm going to start oil painting. I went to 2 art stores in town and compare prices between Micheals, some locally owned store, and DickBlick.com. All the tubes of paint ranged from $6-$10 a tube at the stores. But, when I went to Dick Blick.com, I found these "Student's" oil paints. The prices on these seem too good to be true. Is there something I'm missing? Or, would I get all of this paint for the price listed at the bottom?

The address:
http://www.dickblick.com/zz004/80/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=3805

[geoffd]

if you're gonna start, spend the big bucks. i found this out in one of the threads i started before in regards to gouache. get the best stuff which is apparently windsor & newton (this is for oils and gouache) and spend some money on a couple good brushes. also do a search on here for painting, oils and such and you can find some really good info. also start out with a small range of colors, i'm using burnt umber, raw sienna, indian red, yellow ochre, white and i believe ultramarine blue. and to be really honest... i'd just get a good gouache set and just start out using black and white to learn to paint using values.
now it's time for me to practice what i'm preaching.... hahaha :rolleyes:

[AnarchyAo2]

I'm not quite understanding how spending "big bucks" on oil sets is gonna improve my skill? If I'm a noobie to painting and such, how would I really notice the difference between high quality and low quality?

[mtw]

Student grade paints are of worse quality than artist grade. It's got more filler, so the color won't be as good. Student grade might be good if you want to test out oil painting, but if you're going continue you should use artist grade.

[AnarchyAo2]

Yeah, I see your point. I just don't wanna spend a bunch of money on something I might not like. Plus, I really don't have a lot of money to spend on expensive paints now. Maybe I can get a nice paint set for christmas if I like oil paints.

[tinyhands]

I would say, don't go and spend the "big bucks" there are good paints for a decent price out there. Winsor Newton is okay, but personally I don't really like the consistency of the paint. I prefer DaVinci. They are priced cheaper and the consistency of their paints is way better. And don't think you need a lot of colors either. A warm and cool of the primarys, and black and white is a great starter palette. You can mix most colors with that, just experiment. And for brushes, do get the best you can afford. Robert simmons makes great brushes and they're pretty faily priced. Get a variety of bristles and synthetic sables, as real sables are way too expensive. And get a variety of rounds flats and filberts. Anyway, i could go on and on. Hope this helps

[AnarchyAo2]

Could you perhaps give me a list of good beginner colors? Because, I'm totally new to the subject.

[Kortez]

is "reeves fine gouache/oil/acrylics" decent?

[mtw]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
Could you perhaps give me a list of good beginner colors? Because, I'm totally new to the subject.
I'd suggest starting with a limited palette. Don't try getting exact colors of things you are painting, but learn to see values instead. Once you have that down, going local color is easier. At least that's my experience.

By limited palette I mean only three or four colors. Ultramarine blue, burnt sienna, and titanium white are good colors to try. Limited palettes also can teach you about mixing colors.

For a more full list of colors, get a light and dark version of each primary and complimentary color. You can make blacks and browns from those, or you can buy those as well.

[jwo]

Originally posted by Kortez
is "reeves fine gouache/oil/acrylics" decent?

i love 9.99 reeves set.
because im soooo poor.

[tinyhands]

I think by light and dark colors, mtw means warm and cool. Heres just an example:
Yellows
warm-cad yellow med/deep
cool- cad yellow light
Reds
warm-cad red light/med
cool- Aliziron crimson
Blues
warm-Cerulean blue (hue) *you could buy regular cerulean, but its alot more money
cool- Ultramarine blue

Those along with white and black would be a good start. You could also get a green, and I'd reccomend either sap or viridian green, but not phthalo green, its way too staining, and if you can control it, its too much. Theres alot of other yellows and reds and blues, but those are good starter colors. Most of those other colors can be mixed from these. And you can mix your secondary colors too, so no need to spend more.
Thats a pretty limited palette too. Its only six colors. Cause white and black are not, colors, they are tints. If you want an even more limited palette, the zorn palette probably has the best range.

The zorn palette is:
titanium white
scarlet vermillon (also might just be vermillion, depends on brand.)
yellow ochre
Ivory black
You can make all your flesh tones, you can make green and blue from this palette, and alot of earth tones and such. Its a great palette. You could also just try painting in one color, and do whats called a "pick-out" Typically burnt umber is used for this, but you could use burnt sienna too. Doing pick outs is basically drawing in paint, plus if you never painted in oil before, its great to get used to the medium and see how it behaves. Anyway Hope this helps.

Kortez- Yes reeves is quite possibly worse than student grade. I would steer clear.

[mtw]

Originally posted by tinyhands
I think by light and dark colors, mtw means warm and cool. Heres just an example:
Yellows
warm-cad yellow med/deep
cool- cad yellow light
Reds
warm-cad red light/med
cool- Aliziron crimson
Blues
warm-Cerulean blue (hue) *you could buy regular cerulean, but its alot more money
cool- Ultramarine blue

I wasn't actually meaning warm or cool, but those are also two other version of each color that you could get. I've actually read that ulramarine blue is kind of a warm blue (my prof's notes also say it's on the red side).

[tinyhands]

yeah, from what I've learned ultramarine is way cooler than cerulean, and just by comparing the two side by side cerulean is warmer. But i don't want to turn this into a battle of the blue colors. Either way between those two blues you don't really need others, except maybe a colbalt, but thats a weak color and its bank.

AnarchyAo2- hopefully this will get you started, and at the lowest cost possible.
Buying oils for the first time can get pretty expensive cause theres so much that goes into materials. But once you get it over with you can just get single tubes and brushes slowly. The only constant is buying canvas after canvas. Canvas Panels are a great study medium cause they're cheaper than a regular stretched canvas. And they usually come in packs of three. Fredrix makes the best panels, so I would reccomend them and nothing else. An easel is also needed along with terpentine, a palette to put your paint on. And the list continues. Oh, and when you get your palette I would suggest a white masonite palette and not a wood one. When using a wood palette, the color of the wood obviously has a value, and because of that its hard to tell what value you your mixtures are. Go with a white one, and that won't be a issue. I know this is all alot
of information, and you haven't even began to paint yet! But once its taken care of you can put all your energy into learning the medium.

[mtw]

As alternatives to what tinyhands mentioned, you can also paint on paper. Water color paper that's about 140lbs works well. It's not as good as canvas, but it should be cheaper. If you have access to a couple power tools (table saw and meider saw I think are their names), you can make your own canvas stretchers.

I like palettes made of glass with white paper taped to the bottom, personally. You probably don't want one if you're going to hold it in your hand, though.

You'll also want jars for holding turpentine and other solutions. Glass jars that are wide enough to let your brushes in. You'll want rags for wiping paint off your painting or brushes. Remember to store them somewhere safe because they can catch fire. Also soap made for brushes is a good investment so your brushes will last longer.

[AnarchyAo2]

Thanks a ton for the help guys. My mom agreed to get me some paints. So, I'll probably be ordering all of the stuff here soon. Also, is linseed oil a good investment? I've heard some people say that it helps keep your oil paints wet longer.

[mtw]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
Thanks a ton for the help guys. My mom agreed to get me some paints. So, I'll probably be ordering all of the stuff here soon. Also, is linseed oil a good investment? I've heard some people say that it helps keep your oil paints wet longer.
I'm not sure what it does, but I haven't had a need to use it. You can probably skip using it for right now while you're learning. Oil paints stay wet plenty long for me as it is.

[el coro]

spend $ on the cadmiums and cobalts. i like old holland for these. the colors sing. everything else, use the cheap stuff. ochres are just dirt and clay. i recommend using artist colors over student colors, though, as the consistency of the paint is far superior. oh, and Capt. Harlock, turner and holbein gouache kick the shit outta windsor newton anyday! -c36

[tinyhands]

Yeah like mtw said, glass makes a great palette and its super easy to clean. And for things to store your terp in, some canisters have a little insert with holes on the bottom so you can clean your brushes on them and get most of the paint out. Paper towels are good. But there are these towels called Rags in a box that are even better. They're made by Scott brand and them come in a big yellow and blue box. They are alot more durable and can absorb more than a regular paper towel. Plus there cheap. You can use linseed oil, but its already in the paint when you buy it. One of my teachers said that it actually makes the paint dry faster, and suggested safflower or walnut oil instead. So ive used safflower and it will keep your paint wet longer. You use it to thin your paint rather than turp, cause turp will really dry that paint fast. Also get something that you can store your paint you put on your palette. After you go and spend money on your paint, you don't want to toss it after just one painting. Once you have a container for your paint, put drops of clove oil on top of your paint and that will make it last for a couple weeks. You can get clove oil at a drug or health food store.
Not to disagree with el coro, but as far as paint goes, Old Holland is as good as it gets, and their cadmiums and colbalts run for 30-40 dollars a tube. Not exactly paint you want to learn with. In fact most professionals i know don't even use it. Cause as far as colors go, a great painter with average paints will still paint better than a lesser painter with the best colors. Its all in the user, but materials still count for something. Sorry for the long post.

[mtw]

Another thing I should mention. Disposable gloves can be good to wear. Oil paints sometimes have toxic metals in them (like lead). Turpentine isn't as bad but it's still good to keep it off your hands.