Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens: Info from Pilot

[3DZealot]

FWIW:

After watching Feng Zhu's Gnomon DVDs, I embarked on a quest for the now infamous Pilot Hi-Tec-C pen line, of which he uses in many of his works. A search of Conceptart.org revealed several threads on the topic, so I won't reiterate what was discussed. I have, however, contacted pilot with the intention of finding a similar product line available in the United States(and places abroad).

The following is Pilot's response:

"Thank you for your recent E-mail message. Yes, due to our marketing agreement with our parent company, and in some cases patent restrictions, we are unable to either sell or stock this item.

Each Pilot Affiliate has a specific list of products available to them and the residents of their marketing area. They may not sell outside of their area, nor may they sell directly to consumers. We are sorry to say these pens are unavailable to you unless you travel abroad.

Our Precise PV-5 and 7 would be equivalent to the Hi-Tec. However, we have only .5mm and .7mm available. Nothing smaller is available. These can be viewed on our website www.pilotpen.us under the Rolling Ball line.

If you would like samples sent please supply your complete mailing address and specify your color preference."

Note that only .5mm and .7mm are available. 0.3mm, and 0.4mm are not included in the US product line.

I thought this information would be somewhat valuable to the community, as this matter has posed a considerable annoyance for many of us. If anyone has found a suitable replacement, please post your findings so that we can have this thread as a resource for later user perusal.

I pray that this thread is posted in the proper forum, and I apologize to the Conceptart.org staff if I have posted this thread in error.

Thank you all for your time.

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

i just use 'staedtler' pigment liner 0.2 mm.

its not the materials that make the artist! :D

[3DZealot]

cartoonfox:

Much apprecieated. Let me mention that I completly agree with you that the materials don't make the artist. I am personally new to Inking, and cannot find a SIMILAR product that Feng has used to teach. This was simply my attempt to further understand the options available, and to procure a source of inking instruments capable of producing the line work I am currently attempting to learn.

You comments are, of course, dually noted.

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

hey np. i didnt meen anything by it, just that there are alot of pens out there suitible to use for inking. i suggest trying out a few and finding one that suits your personal style.

good luck. :)

[3DZealot]

Of course, no offence taken.

Perhaps you could recommend a line of disposable pens that has 0.3mm, 0.4mm, and 0.5mm as options. I cannot seem to locate rollerball pens of any quality with these sizes.

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

i use a steadtler 0.2 mm pen. i know they have a whole range of sizes, but i'm not sure where you would get them from (unless you live in cardiff :D)
try going to your local art store and testing out a few.

[negativespace]

Doug Chiang uses a Pilot Razor Point II pen. Might want to try that one out. Doug Chiang (http://www.dchiang.com/dchiang.html)

[cucaracha]

(btw. I don't think that Pilot pens are the ultimate drawing tool which immediately generate feng-concepts :p)

I use
- Pilot V-something fountain pens
- Faber-Castell ecco pigment 0.1, 0.3, 0.5
- black ink con brushes & pens

(anyways, at the moment I try to master the pencil... its my fav so far :D)

cu

[3DZealot]

negativespace: Thanks for the heads-up. I'm looking into it now.

cucaracha: Why did you feel the need to say that? Is it not obvious that I am making an attempt to study and practice certain conceptual design techniques utilizing the tools mentioned and used by the teacher from whom I'm learning?

I fully understand that these pens are not the cream of the crop, but from the point of view of a beginner in inking, I must say I'm quite confused by all the choices available, as well as the lack of choices in pens that are available in a broad range of tip sizes.

If I hear this one more time, I'm going to get a bit upset. What is wrong with making inquiries about drawing tools? Did I say I expected these pens to create the art for me? Perhaps I should have known better than to ask about them. I honestly don't understand why everyone continues to mention that "it's not the tools, it's the artist". I'm simply attempting to learn how to use pens to ink my work.
I too am attempting to "master the pencil", but if I don't experiment with differing media, how will I ever progress? Do you tell people who are trying to learn about watercolor or oils manufactures that they can't expect the media to do the work for them?

Thanks for the input, though, and I will redouble my efforts to understand the meriad thousands of pens apparently available for this task.

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

hi. when we (or at least i) said "its not the materials that make the artist" i only said it because you seemed a bit upset or angry that you couldnt find the pens you wanted to buy, and i just wanted to explain to you not to worry, there are plenty of pens available that will do the job. maybe i used the wrong saying.
i didnt mean, in anyway, to insult or anger you, and if i did, then i appolagise.

i'm sure you will find the pens that fit your style perfectly, and i wish you good luck in practicing concept (or any other) art.


have a nice day.

[3DZealot]

Listen, I'm sorry. I really did'nt mean to lose it like that. I just get upset when people assign motives to a seemingly innocent and reasonable question that are simply not there.

It would seem that you gentlemen have seen a great deal of new artists that believe that if they can just get the tools, they can do quality work. I'm by no means a Feng fanboy, but I like his thinking and it seems to suit my personal style well. I guess I've been a bit excited the past few days because after watching his DVDs, I finally understood how to lay down ink well. I guess I was sorta insulted that people would abitraraly assign rather moronic motives to what I thought was a reasonable request/info-gathering-session. Try searching the 'net sometime for a pen that has all the characteristics of the Hi-Tecs, and you will find that there is a serious lack of similar products available to the US market.

Eh.

Thanks for all the replies, and I appologize for becoming too insensed over such a minor and rather ludacris matter. You gentlemen were only attempting to help, and I guess I read too much into the posts.

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

i know exactly how you feel. i'm a newbie myself, and although i havent seen fengs dvd's, it was his art work that got interested and inspired to go into concept art.

like i said earler, i recomend testing out a whole range of products, and finding the right ones for your style and proccess. it evan says that on fengs website! :D

anyway, good luck in your search and art, looking forward to seeing some of your stuff.

(btw, i find it funny how you called me 'gentleman'! :D lol, i dont think i'm old enough to be a gentleman :D (although i am male! :rolleyes: ))

[cucaracha]

Ho, don't be offended. You noticed the smiley? Well it illustrates that I didn't post with a bad intention.

Don't be angry, I just wanted to say that every pen is filled with some kind of ink and that every pen tip transfers it in some way to the paper. Just test some pens and take one that has a nice black ink and easily transfers it.

cu

[3DZealot]

Again, I'm sorry I got so offended. It was rather rediculous, and I extend my appologies. Guess the 'ol ego was rearing it's ugly head.

Actually, let me further detail my problem so that perhaps you guys can help me. I understand that testing pens is a great way to find what you like, but I simply cannot find what I need.

Feng shows inking like this:

He first outlines every important line and detail with a .3mm pen.

He then goes in with a .4mm pen and thickens certain lines(usually around more important details, and around the bottom edges of larger structures). He also uses this pen to thicken lines of objects and shapes closer to the camera.

After all that, he goes in with a .5mm pen to thicken the most important lines.

So my problem is that I've been to 4 different art supply and office supply stores, and I cannot find any rollerball pens that are available in the .3mm to .5mm range of sizes. They are all too big. I even been looking online rather exhaustivly, even on the big sites like dickblick.com, and cannot find a pen set with these ranges.

So that's really the crux of my problem. Any thoughts?

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

dont look for roller ball, get fine liner pens.

[3DZealot]

Sorta like an old school rapidoliner but disposable?

-3DZ

:D

[cartoonfox]

not sure, but the are disposable. go into your local art store and just ask what ink pens they have, then just test them out.

[3DZealot]

You forget I live in the states. Massive stores with little selection and everything is tightly wrapped up. No testing for us!

But, there may be some old school art supply stores around. I think I might try the local art institute's student store...see if that yields anything.

Thanks for the input!

-3DZ

:D

[Elwell]

I'd recommend checking out Micron (http://www.gellyroll.com/products/pens/pigmamicron/pigmamicron.html) pens by Sakura. They come in six sizes from .2mm to .5mm and the pigmented ink is waterproof and fadeproof. For thicker lines or large black areas their Graphic and Brush pen lines use the same ink.

[cartoonfox]

np, good luck

[Kortez]

Hi,

If you can find some hybrid gel pens from Pentel, buy them.
they are the next best thing. But I can't assure you that it's exactly like the Pilot Hi-Tecs, cause they haven't been available in iceland for 2-3 years now.

You can get hybrid 0.6 (the ball is 0.6, the tip is 0.2-0.3) and it's pretty much the same (as far as i can remember) as the hi-tech 0.3. You should also check out rotring graphic 0.3, I didn't like it at first, but when you get used to it, it's quite nice.

I did some lines to show you the difference between various pens. But of course I can't find the cable to my scanner, and my digital camera is out of batteries :(

I'll post it here later :)

[Tedsuo]

As an alternative opinion, I personally dislike the Hi-Tec C. The tip is just a little metal cylinder, and I don't like the way it feels on the paper. Sorta skratchy, even though the ink flow is fine.

[3DZealot]

Well geeze, thanks a ton guys.

Kortez: Thanks so much for going to all that trouble. I really appreciate it.

Tedsuo: Thanks for the heads-up. It did'nt look scratchy, but I'm starting to see what you are talking about. Thanks for that.

Elwell: Thanks for the link and recommendation. I'm looking at buying a few. I used to use them as a kid, but I can't remember how well they worked.

Again, thanks guys!

-3DZ

:D

[strych9ine]

I have used Microns for years, but it's noteworthy to say that these are felt tip, not ballpoint. You get quite different rendering capabilities between the two. They are fantastic nonetheless.

[3DZealot]

I'm remarkably confused. If one goes to any of the major pen manufacturer's websites, you will see pens listed by type:

Ballpoint
Rollerball
Gel

Etc.

Now, what in the heck is teh dif between ballpoint and "rollerball"?

I swear they are doing this on purpose.

-3DZ

:D

[BadMange]

3DZealot, do a search (famous last words). This thread HERE (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=566&perpage=20&pagenumber=3) lists two places in the US to buy Hi-Tec C's from.

-Bad Mange

[3DZealot]

While I apprecieate the link, If you had actually taken the time to read my post, you would have disovered within the first few sentences that I did indeed search conceptart.org for all relevant information. You would have also discovered that I was looking for a replacement for the Hi-Tec-C pens, not the actual pens.

-3DZ

:D

[BadMange]

So you did, my mistake! I did read your post, but must've missed that part about doing a search already (even though your post wasn't long). And that's why I wrote "Famous Last Words"!! :D

[gasmask]

i know where to get them in seattle, the c pens. Im sure any major city has them in the internation district because thats where they are at in seattle

[Deadsprite]

if you're looking for a really fine line pen ... you might want to consider a rapidiograph pen. true they are slightly expensive and people complain about them clogging. but all the ones i have had, i used straight for about a year or two with no problem till the tips got bent (some freak was looking at it when i was in the can and dropped it ... i almost killed him) or when the actual casing got crushed (don't keep them with any of your books in your backpack and just toss your backpack idly onto the concrete ... baaaaad mojo) other than that i would try any one of the hard felt tip illustration pens ... ah here we go ... ZIG MILLENIUM ... it's a silver pen i can find at alot of craft stores, jo-anns michaels, etc. they make a mean pen and you can get them all the way down to 005 and 000 if you want. oh and they are only about a couple bucks each so if anything does happen to them ... no worries .. just toss and replace.

[GCastro]

3d Zealot,
I feel where you're coming from. I too have been on the hunt for similar type pens, since the hi-tec c pens are so hard to find. Though I did call that place in San Fran, and they do have them for 3.30 a pop. I have bought a couple pens to try out, but have no idea how they compare to the hi-tecs. I bought the Staedtler Liquid point 7 pen. It came in a pack of 4 and they're .3mm. I feel like it releases too much ink, and it doesn't look the same as when Feng draws on his DVD's. I also bought a Gelly Roll fine pen from sakura. It's a .4(the smallest they had), and it has more of a feel that I would imagine the hi-tecs would have. But I'm only going by how it looks on the dvd, so I'm not 100% sure.

As for differences, (roller ball, ball point, gel,)i think it has to do with the tips of the pens. I could be wrong though :)

Also, as strych9ine mentioned, the mircrons are felt tip, and i assume they run a differnet measurement then the ball pens.

I'm gonna keep trying different pens, and I'll let you know how they fare, but eventually i think i might break and just order some hi-tec C pens :D

Let me know if you find something.

God Bless,
George

[GCastro]

Hey all,
According to a thread similar to this one going over at cgtalk, This is the equivilent of the Hi-Tec-C pens.

http://www.pilotpen.us/detail.asp?PenID=56

Apparently the extra fine point is the same as the .3mm. I went to look for this pen, but struck out with this one as well. Couldn't find it anywhere.

I'll keep you posted.

George

[gasmask]

ok ill add my 2 cents since i own the c pens, i have used these other pens as well u people are talking about and honestly the c pens are superior and i have yet to come across any that can match up, they have ink flow that never stops and very precise line quality, plus they dont bleed or smear.

[GCastro]

Thanks for the reply gasmask. Dang, know I will do everything i can to get my hands on some hi-tec-c's to try them out for myself. I got a friend in SF that will try get me some soon. I forgot to mention that the Staedtler pens that I bought, smear.


i'll keep you posted.

George

[al-x]

You should be able to order them on the web. I use them and they're really great, but you can't apply to much pressure when using them as they will scratch the paper, it takes some time to get used to...

[Tamerlane]

Pilot Hi Tec C pens?

I dont think that they are so hard to find here in England - I saw them in my local art store, but I personally prefer fine line, fibreglass tip pens.

[da_hoodlum]

Ok so I did some serious hunting and found the Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens in my area (Seattle, Wa)!!!!

I haven't drawn much with it but i did a few line/object tests and highlightered over them to see bleed and here's my comparisons:

(Disclaimer - I'm pretty new to drawing and I've just watched the first Concept Design DVD from Feng Zhu - so I don't have a huge amount of applied experience in these comparisons. I just did a bunch of test lines/objects on 1 sheet of paper to compare)

Pigma Micron 01 (.25mm line weight)
So I primarily use this pen to add line weight after I've drawn in all the lines, cause you can build up line weight nicely with this pen. Note - this is not a ball point pen its a felt tip pen, which is why I think it differs from the Hi-Tec-C. Has waterproof ink so it does not smear at all when highlighting overtop.

Uniball Vision Exact (Micro .2mm rollerball)
I bought this because when I went out buying drawing supplies I couldnt find the Hi-Tec-C and thought this might be comparable (it's not). It draws really smooth but the line width looks simular to the Pigma Micron with .25mm line weight). This pen is not waterproof and did smear when highlighter was applied overtop.

Pilot Hi-Tec-C (0.3)
Ok let me first say this pen is worth a little hunting. Although the number (0.3) is higher than the other pens the line weight was significantly smaller (almost half the width of the other 2 pens). It writes very smooth and with such a small line width it almost feels like your writing with a fine mechnical pencil. Ink is totally waterproof so there was no smearing when highlighter was applied. This is a very good pen and now I understand why there are forum topics on it. Find this pen to at least test and compare it for yourself.

Tips on finding the Pen in your area
Ok so I think I have some tips for finding this pen. It seems like everyone that has found this pen (including myself), found it at some Asian (primarily Japanese) Art/Book store. So go to your local large city's international district and start walking into Art/Book stores. You can try to look them up in the yellow pages but many are not listed in the "english" yellow pages (we have several asian language yellow pages in my area - but I can't read any other languages so that didnt work for me). Luckily we have a large Japanese Bookstore in our international area - which had them fully stocked.

Buy Online?
Someone over on CGTalk referred to this online site as a possible place to purchase the pen online (but the site lists it as a G-Tec-C not Hi-Tec-C so not sure what the difference is if any).

http://www.wyndhamartsupplies.com/i...amp;cat_id=1031

Good luck on your hunt!!!

[gasmask]

yeah like i said i got mine in seattle as well at uwajimaya, and kinoyinyun book store.

[da_hoodlum]

yep uwajimaya...

for anyone looking - do not attempt regular art/office supply stores... odds are against you that they will have them as this appears to only be an "imported" item. Find your closest international district...

[Blind]

FYI... the Kinokuniya Bookstore also has a location in Edgewater, NJ for anyone who's interested in that area, and they do have the Pilot Hi-Tec-C pens, along with a million other types of pens... rollers, brush pens, you name it. Not sure if they mail order or not, but I walked in there today and snagged a .3 & .5 to test them out.

[quantas]

i have contacted Pilot in the past trying to find out if those pens were available. I got the same shi**y reply from the company.... well, i tried all the alternatives to see if there would be something comparable. I unfortunately didn't find anything that i liked, so I also came to the conclusion that it isn't the matierals that make the artist, blah, blah, blah....

but.... then i remembered, dang, i have a friend who lives in japan. he sent me a great quantity of the pens.

this is can say with confindence..... it isn't the matierials that make the artist, but those are some DANG FINE PENS!!!!