University Of California

[Odayga]

Hello,
Does anyone know about any UC's that have outstanding art programs? because me and my parents went over art school expenses. they said that they can co sign a loan and that i'm responsible for the rest :). or that i can get my own loan after i cram in a ton of money.

I am going to be doing a year at a JC and then going off to a Private Art School Such as Academy of Art a UC is very rare but a possible backup., i would really appreciate it if you guys could reccomend some UC's.

Thanks!
:hugsmile:

[NoSeRider]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44139

I've been debating this myself, but I've been content to going to these schools:
www gnomone 3d com
http://www.wattatelier.com
http://www.studio2ndstreet.com
http://www.conceptdesignacad.com/
http://www.laafa.org
http://www.calartinst.com

For the time being.

Justin Sweet went to UC Fullerton and gives a lot of credit to his mentor Marshall Vandruf, who teaches at Fullerton.

I'd also look into CSU Long Beach. The school has instructors that work in the movie industry as sketch and storyboard artists.

I've been told UCLA is a good school as well, I just haven't researched it yet.

I've been told UC Santa Barbara sucks....I was told. So research it on your own.

However, I don't feel these schools teach life drawing well. I would supplement that with other schools, such as the URL's I listed.
If you want to draw similar to the people that draw on this forum, I believe what I stated is reasonable.

I've been told by Art Center Graduates, that if they had to do it over again, they would go to an Atelier like school....so I don't know. It's all arbitrary.

Personally, I'd wish people would talk more about the UC system.

A LOT OF US HERE AIN'T Frick'N TRUST FUND BABIES!!!!

[Odayga]

THankyou very much for all of your information and Help :). yeah my sister wants to go to UCSB....its a party school just like chico state..but my counselor also gave me a list such as Irvine, UC Santa Cruz, Berkeley, UCSD, etc.

thanks man. now im off to do research.

but honestly...i think that art school prices are REDICULOUS i mean i would die to go if I could...moneys the issue. they aim all the snooty rich kids with a silver spoon in their mouths unlike the rest of the world that actually is realistic and has to work! I just started working at a Bio Tech Corporation in the marketing department and let me tell you..making money isnt easy it amazing that these rich kids get whatever the hell they want without working hard for it. lifes about pain suffering and hard work, same with art, the art schools need to give everyone a chance..not just the rich kids. loans i cant do my parents dont want to cosign and be responsible for the 200-300k. but what ive learned is that as an artist i need to work hard in the UC and get the most out of that in order to climb my way up. and THEN i can choose to go to a graduate art school to get an MFA once im in the working art world and have had a good income and enough exposure. see what im saying??? its just realistic and reasonable.

thanks once again :mittenbop:

[angy400]

What school did you look at that cost $70,000-$80,000 a year??
The most expensive I have come across yet is Cal Arts and that is WITH room and board about $45,000 a year..have you checked out Academy of Art, San Francisco yet?

[Odayga]

that was a bit of an exxaguration but art center will be about 50 - 60k thats A LOT of money. and thats just for the COLLEGE not personal expenses...

[skyfish]

I don't go there, but I recommend Laguna College of Art and Design. They seem to give good scholarships(everyone's considered and the highest amount's around 9000$ according to their website..that's about half of the tuition!) and the student population's pretty small, about 300 or so.

I'm at Academy of Art right now. Foundation program's really good, but tough. You see people improve though. But it's pretty expensive because of a lack of scholarships. Perhaps FAFSA will help and if you can get a CalGrant, go get one. :D

Good luck!

[NoSeRider]

UC San Diego and San Diego State University suck as far as commercial art goes.

What people fail to understand is, you'll be paying over a $ 1,000 a month for over 10 years if you owe $ 100,000 or more in loans......regardless if you're successful or not.

http://www.wattatelier.com
http://www.studio2ndstreet.com
http://www.conceptdesignacad.com/
http://www.laafa.org
http://www.calartinst.com

This is the level of drawing I'm shooting for.....so hell, why pay a $ 100,000 for that?

[Odayga]

yeah....i dunno my parents arent supportive of it..ive been doubting it for a while anyway. im doing a year at a JC and then going to a UC to get my MFA in Illustration or maybe even a BFA and then move onto art school to get an MFA......its just so much easier and cheaper. we simply cant afford art school. period. thats realistic enough. my cousin Daniela went to AoA for a little while. she dropped out because it was too expensive. shes an amazing artist photographer and dancer though :).

[Odayga]

noserider what UC's are you planning on going to? and where are you in Cali btw?

[NoSeRider]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44139

I've pretty much told you. I'm looking into USC Fullerton and USC Long Beach.

I live in San Diego County. I haven't made the commitment because I'm going to other schools at night and weekends.....to learn 'art'. Right now the Bachelors Degree is an after thought.

The advantage of going to a UC is that you can get your degree in 2 years if you have all your prerequisites put aside.....if all you care about is getting that piece of paper?

I think my drawing skills are strong, and I just want to make them stronger.....that's what I take art classes for.

[NoSeRider]

Justin Sweet came from USC Fullerton, ergo private college might be full of crap.

Well, somebody talk about the UC system...jeez.

[CTseng]

Hey there.


I've been debating this myself, but I've been content to going to these schools:
www gnomone 3d com
http://www.wattatelier.com
http://www.studio2ndstreet.com
http://www.conceptdesignacad.com/
http://www.laafa.org
http://www.calartinst.com

Good call; that's that stuff I'm looking into as well and/or taking. There's also the Animation Guild in North Hollywood from which I took some Vilppu classes... that's a great source, too.
I highly agree with Noserider's opinions... and I'm doing something similar. Taking art classes around soCal to get my art skills up first before jumping into art school ...

Odayga: You remind me of me just one year prior. I was intent on completing some credits, or at least getting a year of the "Generic Uni Experience" before heading on into the art path. I've come to realize over time, via lots and lots of time researching and talking to people and my own experiences and so on-- and I've concluded that the UC route is not a good choice to go, not at all. My main concern is to get better at art, and I want to do it as money efficient and as efficient in general as possible. I've come to realize that it doesn't matter where I learn it, but who I learn from and what I learn, and how efficiently I put the knowledge to use. Be it DVDs, instructive books from Amazon.com, city college or classes taught over an hour away from where I live...

Why are you considering UCs? You said it was a money issue, but I don't see how that works... The UC system is NOT cheaper than you going elsewhere to get your art education. This is because you will be wasting your money there if your true intention is to really learn art.
Unless all you care for is a nice diploma and you don't care whether you come out of the school knowing how to draw for beans with the proper foundations crucial to the success of any concept artist (or artist in general)... then sure, go for the UC system.

My friend goes to UCLA for art, and she said that she hasn't necessarily learned HOW to draw, but she doesn't regret how it has expanded her interest and appreciation for the subject and all its variety.

UC Santa Barbara has this "special" section for the arts, supposedly, but I didn't find it (the building or what it teaches) to be very impressive for foundations... for expressive fine arts, UCs could do, but if you really want to be able to draw like the masters from both the old days and modern days, then you should check out those links that Noserider suggested as a starting point.



Justin Sweet went to UC Fullerton and gives a lot of credit to his mentor Marshall Vandruf, who teaches at Fullerton.

Seriously! I'm going to Fullerton College now, just because of Marshall.
Also, I've been told that Justin said that he didn't learn from Fullerton; he learned by forming a strong study group with Vance, he learned from Marshall, and he learned from the Old Masters... and he is incredibly motivated and eager to work and improve, and talented to boot-- all of which you will need (plus some more), regardless of where you go, if you want to make the most out of your education.

And even though Justin Sweet doesn't seem to give CSUF that much credit, I still heard that it's the next best choice if you want to save money, and CSULB isn't bad either.


(Sorry if I came across as sounding somewhat bitter; I am! Toward college fees, that is. I have to say I get kind of unsettled when I see people considering UCs for art-- just because I used to be right there in that position. This post and situation reminds me of money hassles and reminded me just how much I dislike the UC and art college and general educational religion of getting money from children... ahaha) =)

[Odayga]

I mean my parents are really obsessive over me going to a UC. they love the notion that gods given them an artist and that their daughter knows her purpose in life forever and wants to go to a good art school but they hate notion of an art school and its expense. they think its snooty and full of rich ass kids and they think that im going to hate it. why would I? i mean i really am being tugged by a rope with all limbs tied into a UC. literally. they dont even want to co sign a loan! So much for the earlier support guys. thanks...anyways im going to be getting an MFA Illustration degree once at an Art School once i have gotten my BA Illustration.

Any other advice with the parentS?

[EruditeBadger]

Depending on how far you want to drive you can find some really good life drawing teachers to supplement your education at the community college level.

Craig Attebery who teaches at Art Center also teaches at Glendale (http://www.glendale.edu/index.html) and Pasadena (http://www.pasadena.edu/) city college. Rebecca Kimmel (http://www.rebeccakimmel.com/gallery/home.php), a member of these forums and the leader of the figure drawing section over at cgtalk teaches over at Irvine Valley College down in OC.

[NoSeRider]

Here's an entrance portfolio to Art Center:
http://nick-artcade.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-entrance-portfolio.html

Here's an entrance portfolio to CalArts:
http://artofjen.blogspot.com/2007/03/2007s-portfolio.html

I don't know....it seems it's all about money and social networking to me.

[NoSeRider]

CSUF Students Outnumber Competition at Disney's ImagiNations
6.20.2008

On the heels of the Key Art Awards, five more Calstate Fullerton art students are receiving distinctions for their craft and vision. In Disney Imagineering's 17th iteration of its international student talent competition, ImagiNations, two teams of Cal State Fullerton students made it to the round of finalists. With only 6 finalist teams, no other university had as many representatives. Moreover, Professor Dana Lamb's team, composed of Manuel Arredondo and Doug Urquilla took third prize, for an imagined ride based on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Professor Christian Hill's team, composed of Patricia Caplette, Liz Schultz, and Caleb Wong developed an interactive presentation for a haunted restaurant. Disney offered internships to all of the nominated students, and even a full-time job to Arredondo (whose life-long dream was to work for Disney Imagineering! Dreams come true!). Other student finalists came from Savannah College of Art and Design, USC/Stanford University, Howard University (2nd place), and Syracuse University, NY (1st place).

http://www.fullertonillustration.com

I'm gonna keep picking away at this. There's something go'n on that you guys ain't tell'n me.

[Maxine Schacker]

Take a look at Max the Mutt in Toronto. We founded this school with the intention of providing excellent training at affordable tuition. I'm the director, so it's against the rules for me to say anything else, except that tuition is around $10,000 a year, and the website is very complete.

[NoSeRider]

This instructor: http://quaife.us/blog/blog.html

Was a special effects Disney animator who teaches at CSU Fullerton and CSU Channel Islands.

Here is the Art Curriculum for CSU Channel Islands:
http://art.csuci.edu/major.htm

They're teaching 3D and video game production, so at the very least they
would provide what Art Institute, mill schools, are teaching at a fraction of the cost.

on a side note:

Robin Richesson is a prolific hollywood concept artist that teaches at CSU Long Beach:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724936/

Aubrey Mintz, who use to teach at Laguna College, is now teaching at CSU Long Beach.
http://www.lagunacollege.edu/Galleries/Default.aspx?galleryType=Faculty&galleryId=2&disciplineId=8&spi=0&si=4&ssi=2&facultyId=117&showGallery=true
You can look at Aubrey Mintz bio and work on that URL, but you should hurry up because
Laguna College will probably take it down soon since he no longer teaches there.

It seems you could get a private college education in animation at CSU Long Beach now.

[limefroth]

hi!

i had a huge huge money issue (which isnt even close to getting over). since im an international student, the in-state tuition thing doesnt work me. so i decided to look for schools that gave out decent scholarships, maybe full rides. I applied to MICA, otis, SAIC, SCAD, SMFA and CCAD and got into all of them with scholarships but CCAD turned out to be the most affordable. around 25K a year (this includes room/board, tuition and misc. expenses). pick places whre its cheaper to live. you are SO lucky you belong to this country (i wish i had financial aid)...im sure you can find a way out.

just keep going through forums and figure out which place offers scholarships more often than others..and see what kind of artwork got what. you'l get an idea of the kind of aid you can expect

good luck!

[Odayga]

I'm probably going to be going to AoA since it has a REALLY strong Illustration program since thats what im planning to get [ MFA Illustration degree ]. I made a deal with my parents, if i get straight A's in my 2 years at the JC, compete a ton in more art shows [ I got 2nd place in the California state fair ], and cram a ton of money into it. they can co sign a loan if that needs to happen :D :D :D. thanks for all the info though. a UC is just a backup at this point. financially.

[UrsusArctos]

I am unclear- you are saying the the MFA in Illustration is your ultimate goal, but right now you are in highschool, deciding which college to go to, am I right?

It has always been my goal to get my MFA in Illustration. I am the first person in my entire family to receive a BA, my mother didn't even graduate highschool. So, I am definitely not a trust fund baby! And because of this, the goal of achieving that MFA is looking daunting. I am desperately researching different loans and payment plans. The most feasible idea is to work full time, taking graduate coursework on the side, over the course of 5 years. Taking out bare minimum loans, that would leave me still about 60k in debt... and once you look at your payment plan, I would pay over 100k in interest over 25 years, which would be the only way it would be possible to pay that debt, unless somehow I find around 800 a month to pay only towards loans on the 10 year plan. Also remember, MFA loans are not very friendly! You can still get unsubsidized loans, but if you go full time, the bulk of your loans will be unsubsidized and the dreaded graduate plus loans- which are nasty.

But you arn't there yet, lets not get carried away. My suggestion to you is that you seek out the absolute best education you can for your undergrad, and worry about cost later. Many people will disagree with me, but today having a BA is an essential tool. It is because I have my BA that I was able to find a decently high paying, non art-related job right out of college. You might think, Hey, I'm going to study illustration- I'll never work in another field. Ha! Even if you are extremely talented, it is likely you will still have to work in another field for even just a few months, to pay the bills (and those loans) while in pursuit of your real job.

Academy of Art is not cheap! It might seem cheaper compared to other art schools, but also remember, you'll be living in SF or nearby town. I have some friends who live in Oakland that go to AoA and they are in debt to their eyeballs. They love it there- but don't think of it as a financially safer option.

If cost is seriously, seriously an issue, you may very well be better off trying to attend a CSU or UC. All UC/CSU colleges are technically public univerities which means that tax payers help pay costs, so they will almost always be cheaper than private/for profit schools, and you will probably have more options to get grants. I have heard very good things about UC Santa Cruz and even most state programs have decent programs- I've heard that Chico State is even pretty good for graphic design and photo (my uncle graduated with photo degree from there and has his own small firm that allowed his wife to retire at 35).

If I had to do things all over gain, I would have shot for the stars for my undergrad, when grants, friendly loans, and scholarships are significantly more plentiful than for grad school. Do it right the first time around- and you won't need to focus on the eventual goal of MFA, unless you deeply and seriously have a desire to teach.

[Odayga]

Well im originally from San Jose ( born and raised and proud :) ). ALL of my family is there so i can easily commute from san Jose to SF. I'm cramming as much money possible from my job which is a company that i work at in the marketing dept. they needed a young artist with fresh eyes [ bio tech company ]. Then just dishing out as many loans as possible. right now im a freshman in college. doing my Lib arts/gen ed right now. getting them out of the way...I would have to live with a member back in san jose. currently im in Sacramento, which aint fun. but yeah.

My parents and i made a deal for co signing a loan if i get straight A's or better in college. since i didnt do so hot in high school....

[yuthe]

The UCLA Fine Arts program (as well as the Design program) is overrated. Everyone I know from those programs either:

(1) Changed majors
(2) Ended up going to a 'real' art school like Otis or CalArts for another BA because they had few skills upon graduating from UCLA.
(3) Got jobs in unrelated fields. This is not uncommon of art schools, but UCLA in particular doesn't provide enough skills.

From what my many friends have said, UCLA is a lot about theory, and not the useful type.

[Jake Kobrin]

I've visited the art program at UC Santa Cruz and although it's a very good school, the art program seemed like a joke.

[Odayga]

yeah im not going to a UC. this thread needs to go. i had a MAJOR talk with my parents and im just cramming as much money as possible into my account and then dishing out mega loans. they dont really care, my dad put a good chunk of money in and now im responsible for the rest. i'm probably gonna go to AoA next year (2009) hella excited :D. cant wait.

Thanks for all the help though guys. appreciate it greatly :). UC's are funded towards the boring stuff like medical and business - they do suck.

[NoSeRider]

http://www.academyart.edu/admissions/tuition_rates.html

http://www.academyart.edu/admissions/housing.html

http://www.academyart.edu/video.html

Well actually, that's a good call.

My point of reference is from Art Schools that cost over a $ 100,000 in tuition. AoA tuition is cut in half and is probably just as strong as ACCD or CalArts.

[futureconceptartist]

Hey guys, this may seem kind of off topic but don't put all of your eggs into the college you go to. They teach you some things but at the end of the day I believe that you have to do your own research on color, perspective, anatomy, line quality, etc. I think its sad that you go to school for art only to be bombarded with sociology,english,math,and all the other things that "artist" don't really need. Yes, a lot of art school graduates don't get hired because they graduate and they still suck. I have been drawing for about a month and everything I have learned has been self taught through research. http://flexyourart.blogspot.com here's my work. I have been teaching myself everything so far and i'm debating if I should take out loans if i'm progressing so fast. Bottom line wherever you go work your ass off and draw and or paint more than you ----anything---- else. Compare your work to artist who are light years ahead of you. Hearing about using light is one thing, but looking at a master and then drawing a figure in a different pose and lighting it based on their scheme is another. This is how you learn to compose your own ideas. I know it's not the best example but im learning like the rest of you all. I took the lighting from another painting and put it on my own fig. Just my two scents.

[BubbaGump]

[url]
My point of reference is from Art Schools that cost over a $ 100,000 in tuition. AoA tuition is cut in half and is probably just as strong as ACCD or CalArts.

If it's just tuition we're going for, yes AoA is the way to go. But to compare it to CalArts and Art Center...no. A lot I've heard about the school is iffy at best. The open policy, students being treated as "numbers" rather than people, more of a business than an educational institution...eh. I'll pass.

[BubbaGump]

i'm probably gonna go to AoA next year (2009) hella excited :D. cant wait.

What happened to going to Calarts? I thought you were so confident you'd make it in. Looking through your old posts you've been excited about going to Calarts, Ringling, and just about every major art institution in the U.S., but you've never made it happen or put a plan into action. Yes, you're excited right now. Good for you. But you still have a year to go.

[NoSeRider]

Here's an entrance portfolio to Art Center:
http://nick-artcade.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-entrance-portfolio.html

Here's an entrance portfolio to CalArts:
http://artofjen.blogspot.com/2007/03/2007s-portfolio.html

Here's an open revolt at Art Center:
http://futureofartcenter.blogspot.com/

People feel like they're being scammed by art schools, even Jason Manley (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315) feels that way. However, I do agree with you about AoA being iffy. I did some later research, and I could probably get the same education at a USC school.

The problem is tuition is so high now that these private high priced tuition schools are now accepting people that wouldn't have been accepted 20 years ago, in order to float the fiscal cost of running the school. If you read that ACCD revolt blog, people complain about taking in '3 or 4' categorized entrance portfolio submissions when they use to only accept '6 or 7' categorized quality submissions. They're saying people with less talent are getting in to float the school by paying tuition.
It's no longer about reputation or quality assurance, but about floating the fiscal institution.

Why are you guys depending upon the 'institution' to give you the answers when it's really the instructors you depend upon?


Craig Attebery who teaches at Art Center also teaches at Glendale and Pasadena city college. Rebecca Kimmel, a member of these forums and the leader of the figure drawing section over at cgtalk teaches over at Irvine Valley College down in OC.

Craig Attebery (http://http://www.lavatyart.com/galleries/cattebery/cattebery.htm)
Rebecca Kimmel (http://www.rebeccakimmel.com/gallery/home.php)

http://www.dorkbrand.com/roland/week7.mov


The classes are getting larger and larger, and there more and more flakes that are coming into this school. Do you understand that? There has to be. There can't be more talent! There's less talent and more bodies. What does that mean?...no shit...but I'm not the advocates who are getting money for Art Center, how's that? I want this place to bankrupt!

Then maybe you'll have a school where people pay attention. Maybe there's another school?

Roland was telling you something. You guys weren't listening.

Suggest you view the video with this software if you don't like waiting for the movie to download:
http://www.videolan.org/

[NoSeRider]

5kBlesizd7w

Ya really want to know about art? Watch these people. Study them.
They're more talented then you are.

The person who won the Gold Medal is John Asaro....Art Center Graduate.
He use to teach at a community college too.

Get to know him. He made the Asaro Head:
http://leipi.com/images/misc/asaro.jpg

[NoSeRider]

Half the time I'm more impressed with this little school in Scottsdale Arizona then I am with the schools in California:

http://www.scottsdaleartschool.org/

Here's a neighboring highly acclaimed design school:
http://design.asu.edu/industrial/index.shtml

Maybe it would be a good idea to go to both schools at like the fraction of the cost of ACCD and CalArts?

[BubbaGump]

Here's an entrance portfolio to Art Center:
http://nick-artcade.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-entrance-portfolio.html

Here's an entrance portfolio to CalArts:
http://artofjen.blogspot.com/2007/03/2007s-portfolio.html

I don't see your point here. Are you trying to show how these portfolios got accepted even though they're sub-par? For every crappy accepted portfolio you post, there are always a dozen great ones.

Such as the ones in the concept art accepted portfolios thread (truly scholarship deserving stuff):
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=128605

And a couple misc. ones:

http://lunaticcreations.com/portfolio/
http://lorelaybove.blogspot.com/
http://www.elizafrye.com/calarts/index.php

People feel like they're being scammed by art schools, even Jason Manley (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315) feels that way. However, I do agree with you about AoA being iffy. I did some later research, and I could probably get the same education at a USC school.

Yes, do research. It'll uncover the hidden nasties of some schools. At first glance, Academy of Art looks like the best option. But you can't just stop at the website's tuition page and expect it to match Calarts and Ringling's quality alumni and teaching because it's cheaper.

If anything, Academy of Art is probably THE iffiest university I have researched in my search of animation-oriented schools. That's why don't focus on a university's web site exclusively, because they present a biased view of the school. They WANT to make it look attractive to a potential student. Look behind the scenes, run google and yahoo searches, research it extensively.

I don't trust schools that advertise on MTV. The open policy allows absolutely no "quality control" as you put it and the "business" oriented nature of the school makes it seem like the education itself is just a cover up for the Academy's real-estate business. To me, it appears as if they're in the business of buying and selling of San Francisco property. And you'd think of a school of that age and size would be part of the AICAD (Association of Independent Colleges of Art and Design), but it's not.

A school in the San Francisco area that is much more dependable, AICAD, (and cheaper!) is California College of the Arts.

http://www.cca.edu/

I also don't understand what you mean about a USC school. There's only one University of Southern California, but if you're referring to Socal universities in general please be more specific or well informed because I've seen you refer to Cal State Fullerton as UC Fullerton and I assure you there is no such thing.

The problem is tuition is so high now that these private high priced tuition schools are now accepting people that wouldn't have been accepted 20 years ago, in order to float the fiscal cost of running the school. If you read that ACCD revolt blog, people complain about taking in '3 or 4' categorized entrance portfolio submissions when they use to only accept '6 or 7' categorized quality submissions. They're saying people with less talent are getting in to float the school by paying tuition.
It's no longer about reputation or quality assurance, but about floating the fiscal institution.

It is ALWAYS about money. But you can never tell what kind of portfolios the schools have been admitting compared to 20 years ago unless you've SEEN the portfolios from 20 years ago and compared them to today. Taking someone's word for it isn't good enough. This is something that is impossible to prove (given the nature of portfolios and how they get lost, improved upon, etc. etc. over the years.).

Why are you guys depending upon the 'institution' to give you the answers when it's really the instructors you depend upon?

I'm not going to disagree that the intstructors are important in an education. But not every teacher has to be famous or have a website ala Marshall Vandruff or a dozen anatomy books to their name. There are great teachers without all the BS out there.

And I don't know about the situation at Art Center (it's a good school, but doesn't lie in my field of interest).

[BubbaGump]

Half the time I'm more impressed with this little school in Scottsdale Arizona then I am with the schools in California:

http://www.scottsdaleartschool.org/

Here's a neighboring highly acclaimed design school:
http://design.asu.edu/industrial/index.shtml

Maybe it would be a good idea to go to both schools at like the fraction of the cost of ACCD and CalArts?

That's great and all, but keep in mind it's not possible for everyone to study out of state.