Rubens on skin

[input]

While copying Rubens painting Cimon and Pero I noticed that in the transition from midtone to the core shadow he has indicated what has to be coloration of the skin due to the veins below the skin. On the figure to the left the coloration seems to have a greenish hue.On the womans arm this coloration has a more bluish hue. I have two questions:

1.Why has he indicated this coloration (from the veins-correct me if I`m wrong) only in the transition into the core shadow?-As I write this I haven`t had the opportunity to study this principle for myself ( by e.g studying my own arm in the light).I figure it must be the veins he has indicated. E.g:W.Bougerau does the same but he frequently indicates the veins in different locations-not just close to the core shadow).

But let`s say Rubens has colored the shadows instead(that it is not the veins below the skin he has indicated).If so (in reaction to the light) the shadow should have the same color on both figures.Or perhaps not?-The skin tones of the two figures are distinctly different.The figure on the left has a yellowish tint to the skin, the figure on the right pure white.Would the yellowish skin of the man on the right in some way affect the appearance of the "blue veins"-making it appear green,while in the case of the woman,since her skin is so pure,the veins / shadow appear as pure blueish?

I am undicided on this issue and need some help:)

[input]

Sorry -seems I forgot question nr.2;)-it is probably embedded in nr.1

[misledtomisery]

while i don't think this is an end-all answer,
the left figure, with greenish shadows, also wears a green cloth, while the female, has a bluish blouse.
the shadow color may be due to color correlation and a tad of reflected light from their respective garments.
i defiitely assume their skin tone also plays a part as you mentioned, green being darker on his tanned dirty skin, and the light blue adding to her soft pale allure.
did i sell that ok?

[drd]

Old man, prisoner, to be pitied: Yellowish and green tinged skin tones.

Young woman, nurturing, savior: Pale white and blue tinged skin tones.

My understanding of it.

[stephen]

in the transitions from light to dark is where you get a lot of the color and texture information of the skin, that could be a reason for it. If you ever paint from life much, under a natural light source, you'll see alot of greens* in the transitions. a lot of that green can be contributed to the local color of the skin, or the surrounding enviornment.

*relatively, to the surrounding colors.

[Lukias]

Like you said..I'm guessing that the blue(which you tend to see more of re pale/white skin tones. Like a newborn I saw the other day.. amazingly blue hues) is showing 'as is' on her skin where as the blue in combination with his orange/warm skin tones then becomes a green.

[input]

Yes it must be something like that!I think everyone has supplied useful info\reflection - always nice to get a second opinion-that`s what is great about sites like this one.

In my opinion Rubens could have modelled those arms and legs/ figures without any distinct hue change in the transitions from light to dark, but then it would be so much less interesting. The use of green\blue coloration ads life to the figures skin\painting as a whole.And to some extent the green in the figure to the left gives it a realtionship with the backround,but the same cannot be said about the woman...hmm:)

[mrgrumble]

i read in a painting techniques book awhile back that rubens would load his brush with a cool or neutral color and then brush that on and mix it with the skin tone already present, creating some interesting hues and temperature. i had never considered a systematic brush loading before that! but this point is erroneous i suppose, so i will agree closely with what lukias mentioned.

[briggsy@ashtons]

The blue colouration is explained as the result of preferential scattering of short-wavelength light. Scattering is the same basic phenomenon that causes the blue of the sky (from scattering by gas molecules) and the blue appearance of smoke seen against a dark background (from scattering by fine particles). Skin contains a scattering layer that statistically is more likely to reflect short (blue) wavelength light and let long wavelength (warm coloured) light pass through. This effect however is only visible where the scattering layer overlies a light-absorbing rather than a light-reflecting layer (otherwise the transmitted warm-coloured light is reflected back and neutralizes the blue colouration). This occurs both when the scattering layer overlies a dark vein, and also near the shadow edge where the raking light illuminates the scattering layer against the dark background of the unlit deeper skin layers. So, the blue colour near the shadow edge is not actually caused by the veins (which in themselves are not blue, but a dark, port-wine colour), but the blue in both situations arises from the same underlying cause.

As both input and Lukias suggest, the difference in resulting colour seems to be stem from the influence of the local colour (or lack of it) of the skin.

[La Muerta Cucaracha]

A lot of the cool grayish colors in Rubens work come form his impatience. He was known for doing his underpainting using grays and painting over them while still wet. Because of this, a lot of gray streaks can be seen in his paintings. A bluish gray with a yellowish skin tone will create a greenish tone. Take a closer look at the painting and it will look like there are parts that were barely painted over.

[dashinvaine]

Bloody horrible painting, isn't it?