Need help inking a comic

[aylap]

I really need help inking a comic. I'm making a manga for a school project, but I've never made one before, so it's almost all experimental hit-and-miss techniques with this thing. I bought a book on inking manga (I swear, look in my sketchbook, I draw realism and from life when I can, this is not all I draw. I just like it. :D), and it's pretty good, but can anyone out there give me any tips? (I'll post what I've done so far in a bit...I have to leave like 5 minutes ago.)

Edit: Here's the first page:

322799

(I don't know if it's really grainy for everyone else or if it's because of this shit PC that I'm on or the retarded program I had to use to resize it on here, but it looks a lot better than that if it is indeed grainy. If it is, I'll fix it as soon as I can.)

[Mirana]

The resizing distorted your line work and makes it near impossible to tell what's going on.

Style-wise, there are very few manga with a hatching style--and even then, there is going to be more of a focus on clean, readable line (I've only seen horror comics this hatch-heavy). What artist are you looking to for reference?

[aylap]

Thanks for the help!

I used a bunch of different ones for reference (I ran out and bought a couple issues of Shonen Jump...it's really cheap and I couldn't find anything else in this state if I tried.), but...yeah, I think I need more. I wanted to bring about a darker scene (it's supposed to be the end of the world, that whole thing about 2012 and all that), but maybe I went a little too heavy? And...yeah, I need some work on shading and such. Any suggestions? I'm still trying to find my way around using ink and caligraphy pens, along with technical pens and maybe a Sharpie now and then. I don't know any good techniques for using ink or how to ink a comic, so I'm really just trying to guess.

Edit: I finally got a chance to resize it in PS.

323004

I really hope that's better this time.

[Rabid]

Since I primarily work with inking I'll add my two cents...

I notice on the very bottom left hand side there are those horrizontal cross hatches that have darker areas then others. This is caused by a swift motion with the pen back and forth in a tight zig zag pattern. It can really hurt values on darks and lights so you may want to try using a ruler with straight continous lines. Don't be afraid to pick up your pen...it will take longer to fill but the detail and focal points will end up more clear... It is a style issue so it really is up to you but zig zagging your pen tens to blend previous hatches and I usually only use that technique to blend drak hatched areas that are over 6 layers deep.

What type of pen are you using because it seems you still get varied thicknesses even with a stright line...

Remember, white value is just as important as black when you are working in this style, for example, the image of the girl flying through the air with the pieces of debris around her on the bottom left reads out fairly well however the last shot on the page doesn't because your action lines surrounding her really get eaten up by the contrasting horizontal floor lines...

The smoke doesn't read like smoke to me probably because it has a great deal of volume and detail. Try keeping areas around the smoke dark but leaving the smoke area fairly vague and silouetted...

[DaPhat]

I must say that i find inking quite hard. I am always scared i am going to add too much value and not be able to fix it. Rabid good tips there. If you have any more feel free to throw them my way.

[Mirana]

Hatching is really tough to learn. Right now I can't tell what's going on in any of the panels save the ones with the character, because there is so much movement in your hatching. Successful hatching looks linear and deliberate--go slow if you have to.

The only mangaka that comes to mind who does extensive hatching is Takehiko Inoue. An excerpt from Vagabond:
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Try pairing the hatch with areas of spot black, and (as Rabid said) use your white (negative) space too. Like, your action lines in the last three panels just look like more of your hatching and get completely lost. Balance your whites so we can see what's what. See the action lines in this:
323028

Otherwise, manga tends to be clean lineart with spot blacks and small amounts of hatching. The majority of dark shifts is done in tones (dot patterns).

[Rabid]

If you are looking to use ink often or get better I suggest getting this handy starter set. These are the exact same pens I use. These sets are just about in any art store or online. The price ranges from 50-90$ depending on who you get it from. I would also suggest getting pen cleaner to go along with it. The best part is these cover a range of constant thicknesses and are completely refillable.

[aylap]

Thank you guys so much for the help! I really needed it (but feel free to give more tips if you have any, I can always use critique lol)

Rabid: I was using a variety of different pens (mainly because I didn't have anything else. My high school's art dept. is not very stocked :/). I think I was using a regular rolling ball kind of pen (Onyx was the name, I believe), a calligraphy "marker thing", and an extra fine Sharpie and a regular Sharpie. I think the paper had a lot to do with it too, because I was watching the ink spread out on the paper after I made a line with a ruler, even.
And I will definitely have to pick up some of those pens! I think I want to work with ink more, because I've worked with just pencil and with trying to perfect my drawing, I haven't really worked very much with other media (aside from PS, if that really counts). I've really enjoyed working with it, and I'd like to learn more ways to use ink effectively :)

Mirana: Thanks for the tips! I will definitely try those with the next page (I can't go back and correct mistakes right now, it's taking me too long to do this comic as it is D: ).

I was reading a little about using tones, but I know I won't be able to get any. Is there any alternative that either of you would suggest?

[PuppyKitten]

I was reading a little about using tones, but I know I won't be able to get any. Is there any alternative that either of you would suggest?

Dunno if you have digital experience at all, but you can add tones via an art or photo-editing program like PS or Painter or something.

[aylap]

I've been working in Photoshop CS2 for a few years now, though I've never really thought of adding tones with it. How do you suggest I go about adding tones with PS? I'm not really sure where to start :/

[Rabid]

Depending greatly on the paper you use you could mix ink with water and get a nice water color effect, but given the rarity of good ink and water work paper I would suggest prismacolor markers gray shades cold or warm...

[aylap]

Ok, I'll try to get some. Thanks for the help!

[Mirana]

You can make digital screentones in many ways:
- Buy them (http://www.akadotretail.com/categories.php?cPath=31_14_29) and scan them. (Also use pattern books like this great Dover one (http://www.doverbooks.co.uk/pp/Pattern%5FDesign/Background%5FPatterns%2C%5FTextures%5Fand%5FTints. html))
- Use pre-made tones/scans from other sites (http://psychobob.xepher.net/screentonez/) and use them as brushes or copy/paste.
- Make your own with the Photoshop filter (http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/halftones/tone1.htm).
- Use MSPaint (http://www.ponju.net/index.php?showtopic=8183).

I personally like scanning my own so you can control the resolution and sizing. Plus, you'll notice a lot of patterns (including action lines) and images in manga that are tones which you can't recreate in halftone patterning alone.

[aylap]

Wow, thanks so much for those links! They'll be really helpful :D

Oh, by the way, I was just looking in an art supply book, and I saw Faber-Castell Pitt Manga set of artists pens. Does anyone know if those are any good? Because I found those exact Radiograph pens in that supply book, but they're 150 dollars (D:), and I can't afford that right now. I can't get out to an art store either because the one that's closest to me about 50-60 miles away...and I don't have a car or time to go up there. But those manga pens are in this book for about 15 dollars. I'm going to get them if they're any good, but I don't want to waste the money if they aren't.

[pencilkiller]

I was reading a little about using tones, but I know I won't be able to get any. Is there any alternative that either of you would suggest?


I wrote a tutorial of How to make Screetone Stamp Parttern for Photoshop awhile back. I did it in PS7, but it should work the same for CS2. Hope it helps. :)

How to make Screetone Stamp Parttern for Photoshop (http://pencilkiller.livejournal.com/3610.html)

[Mirana]

For the poor woman or man, Pitt pens and Microns are the best in that they retain their black color over time. Of course, they are disposable and will run out of ink quickly if you decide to ink often. Faber-Castell Pitt pens are sold at most art stores individually or in small sets. You don't need to buy a "manga" set of anything...actual manga artists do not use disposables, or soft-tip pens. They use india ink and brush (like Takehiko up there), ink and nib/dip pens, or refillable tech pens like Rapdiographs.

[aylap]

Wow, thanks a lot, guys! You have all been a big help :D

I want to get some of those Radiograph pens, they look nice, but I can't get anywhere to get them right now, so I'll have to stick to other pens :( I'm using Staedtler technical pens right now for inking, and I think it looks a lot better, but I still want to get a real good pen set sometime. :)

I've been playing around with the brushes and patterns from that link you gave, Mirana, and I have to say I am loving them! I can't buy tones right now, and these are really looking good anyway. Here's a WIP of my second page using the tones :)

323927

I think it looks a lot better with tones :D

[Mirana]

In my experience, Staedler pens don't stay black, so don't be surprised if the lines are sepia colored in a month. :P Ah well, hopefully you'll be on to bigger and better art projects by then.

Second page is definately more readable. It has a completely different feel than the top page. Remember with tones that your page and tones need to be at the same resolution to prevent a moire pattern when they print out. With the inks, try giving your line some "line weight" -- ie varying the thickness to give interest and depth to your line (make lines thicker on areas that would have shadow, etc). Take a look at your Shounen Jumps to see what I mean.

[aylap]

Yeah, I found that out about the pens when I found some old drawings of mine D: Well, they'll work for now, I suppose. :)

What's a moire pattern? I just read that term when I was reading Ouch's tutorial, and I have no clue what that is.

Oh, how should I give the lines weight? I don't know how to do that with these kinds of pens, they seem to leave an even weighted line throughout, pretty much. Is there any way to make weighted lines with the pens I'm using now? Or should I use another kind of pen?

[Mirana]

The halftone dots will create patterns if scanned or printed at the wrong resolution (like the background in that last Vagabond example).

You can give line weight by going back over lines to make them thicker. You aren't going to get natural line weight through pens, only brush and nibs.

[aylap]

Ok, I'll do that. I'll probably redo this manga sometime when I'm more experienced and I have the right materials, but, unfortunately, for now I just really need to do it to pass my senior year of high school. :/

What kind of ink brushes do you suggest? I might be able to order them (the pens are just way too expensive for my blood right now, and living in the middle of nowhere really sucks :().

(I almost feel like a cheater going into Photoshop and "inking" my comic and putting tones on it so easily lol.)

[pencilkiller]

What's a moire pattern? I just read that term when I was reading Ouch's tutorial, and I have no clue what that is.



As Mirana said, Moire pattern is created by the dots patterns if scanned or printed at the wrong resolution:

http://www.pencilkiller.com/pic/moire01.jpg

I learned it the hard way because I assume when it looks nice on screen, it would look nice when print out... though I was wrong and have to redo the pages....

BTW, toning is part of the art, and it's not easy to keep the balance and contrast. You can't hide bad drawing with screen tone :P

[aylap]

Thanks, Ouch!

Lol I understand about the toning, I don't try to hide bad drawings with it :( I'm just inexperienced, I guess. I really do try to create good drawings, but I need some critique bad to improve lol. My art teacher doesn't really give me any and neither do any of my classmates, so I'm hoping some people here will help me, because I really want to get better :/

[Rabid]

I'll come down and kick your teacher's ass.....student faculty just arn't very enthusiastic about teaching their profession anymore. It's like they didn't understand that being a teacher means explaining shit to others to further them for the rest of your life...

[aylap]

Well, it's not really that, it's just I know more about human anatomy and the style I'm doing than she does, she doesn't really know too much to say :/ Her specialty is animals and painting, and whenever I need help with animals or painting she's definitely the go to person, but when it comes to humans and manga...not so much :(

Plus she's only a high school art teacher teaching, like 5 different classes at the same time. :/

[Mirana]

For brushes I recommend sable, about a size 2 (I use this one (https://www.currys.com/product.htm?Product=WS72&Source=Category&Category=A021B000507)). However, sable brushes are expensive as well. They are also really tough to master, so while you're learning inking basics, it's probably best to start with the cheaper and easier nibs. Try a pack of Speedball sketch nibs (https://www.currys.com/catalogpc.htm?Category=A171B004440&NBReset=4). Don't forget ink (http://www.dickblick.com/zz211/03/) (india, waterproof).

[aylap]

Ok, I'll try and get some. Thanks for the help!