Is it a worthwhile venture or ultimately pointless?

[Blue]

Well a few days back I watched a movie presented by the History Channel called Life After people (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4939078184096254535), which really got me thinking. I don't know the reason any of you do your work, or your hopes or dreams for the work you create once it slithers it's way from your brain through your finger tips, but I always envisioned creating something that stands the test of time. I figure by the time I'm old i'll have made something worth being remembered, but I want to reach that point with the ability to actually make something near indestructible (or close to as i can get).

In the video it shows how buildings made of wood/steel/concrete all will erode away in as little as 40 years in certain climates and it was discouraging news.. If a giant building made of steel and concrete only have a few years of existence before roots and water/ice tear it apart, how much of a chance does something I create stand?

So after some debate i figured anything I make of heavy duty Plastics will exist for a few hundred years, but can melt under exposure to heat and will be relatively fragile compared to other materials in extreme colds. So it can exist for 400+ years, but a tree might squish it and it is no more. So then i started wondering if any metal existed that didn't rust, even if soft metal, to help reenforce the plastic, but then condensation came to mind with layers of plastic/metal. If not plastic, stone or metal then what? *sigh*



So here is where I am now. I love to draw, love to write and have been fiddling with plaster casting lately, but the idea of all of it going to dust seems to bother me. It makes me debate the point to doing this at all (at least on the artistic standpoint). Regardless though, this is my talent and it is probably the only carrier worthy skill i have so, one way or another I'm on the wheel running with all of you guys too.

But the idea of having my work outlast me and maybe be discovered by some future society (human or not) always was like some kind of prodigious child's dream. After realizing that the dream is basically impossible, I am losing the drive I had. I NEED to figure out a way to make something indestructible... somehow. Once i have a material which can last the maximum length of time possible, i can use that material as a vessel for my art.

It seems pointless though, but isn't there merit is wanting to create something that far outlives yourself?

[aesir]

nothing you do will last forever. Don't spend your life thinking about what you'll never experience. Live in the moment and enjoy your life for life's sake while you have it.

[Seer]

"Or is it your reputation that's bothering you? But look at how soon we're all forgotten. The abyss of endless time that swallows it all. The emptiness of those applauding hands. The people who praise us; how capricious they are, how arbitrary. And the tiny region it takes place. The whole earth a point in space - and most of it uninhabited."

It's about you and not what you leave behind. Sometimes.

[Form]

im pretty sure there is shit hanging in the louvre that is pretty old and doesnt show signs of going the way of the dinosaurs yet :)

Most importantly though, don't worry about your legacy. If you could do a painting that stopped a depressed child from taking their own life NOW wouldnt that be more worthwhile than worrying about the longevity of your paintings? Paint for the present :) Im sure you will get a thread full of this advice!! :D

[Blue]

Well, if I was immensely popular I'm sure I might worry less on such matters, but I think realizing how temporary we all are has diminished my sense of value in what I do. Seeing art from ancient rome kind of puts art on this immortal pedestal. Losing that demystifies it for me, probably more then I like.


On the bright side, i have figured out a manner to make (near) indestructible art. Carving out of a very high density stone (gemstone quality) and then submersing it in clear plastic into a large egg shape. mosquitos in Amber came to mind, but i still need to research the plastic to find the best one.

[Mike Frank]

"Is it a worthwhile venture or ultimately pointless?"

I can't help but laugh at how well this question encapsulates the whole human condition.

[squidmonk3j]

...and once again, i'd like to recommend Camus' The Myth Of Sisyphus:)

[Elwell]

But the idea of having my work outlast me and maybe be discovered by some future society (human or not) always was like some kind of prodigious child's dream. After realizing that the dream is basically impossible, I am losing the drive I had. I NEED to figure out a way to make something indestructible... somehow. Once i have a material which can last the maximum length of time possible, i can use that material as a vessel for my art.

It seems pointless though, but isn't there merit is wanting to create something that far outlives yourself?
Eventually, you will die.
Eventually, everyone and every thing you know will die.
Eventually, through tectonic activity, every square inch of the planet will be subducted under the surface and melted into slag.
Eventually, the sun will expand, consuming the earth.
Eventually, the sun will burn out, leaving a cold, dead remnant behind.
Eventually, the entire universe will either contract and collapse in on itself, or, more likely, expand and decay till there is nothing, even matter, left.

So,
What are you going to do about it?

[woodbert]

If you want make something that lasts a long after your gone than make something that enough people will care about and they might try to preserve it once you're gone.

[ChristianWeeks]

You can take a picture of it and put it on the internet where it will remain for forever.

Until the fall of mankind atleast... But who will be left to remember you after that anyways?

Sounds to me like you want to build something that will remain after the human race either leaves earth or goes extinct... Which, no offense, but that seems kinda dumb to me. Sorry :P

[Ilaekae]

My people believe that as long as one person remembers you, you are still alive. The things you own and produce turn to dust, but your reputation in memory CAN live until there is no one left to remember.

As for permanence...I hate to say this, but...blow a crater the size of the US into the earth. No one will be left to see it, but those who come a million years later will recognize that you were an idiot, even though they won't know your name. :P

Everything else will be dust by then, except maybe a marble made of titanium encased in a six-foot diameter ball of lead lowered at least four miles into the earth, with the tunnel filled with concrete after it's in place. Some monument...:nohope:

Oh...don't forget to sign it...

[Atastrophea]

or.... you could make your sculpts in cake and feed them to me, your work would become part of me, then when I die the worms will eat me and your work becomes part of them, then when a bird eats the worm.... and so on and so forth round and round the food chain - your work lasts until, as Elwell said, the end of the earth and I get to eat cake! sheer genius - and modest with it ;) :D lol

I found it interesting they didn't really mention plastic in that Life after people docu. Liked the idea of gliding cats swooping around the ruins though :) have you watched earth:the power of the planet? that was an amazing look into how delicate and yet robust life on earth is. :-)

[enrigo]

Reminds me of Futurama when Bender built a huge monument of himself repeatly saying "Remember Me !".

Why would you want some item to reminds people of you ? better yet seek a technology aid that makes you physically live forever ! Mua ha ha ha

My people believe that as long as one person remembers you, you are still alive. The things you own and produce turn to dust, but your reputation in memory CAN live until there is no one left to remember.

Do this system applies to, say, Hitler and Stalin too. :(

[Dave Kendall]

You've already achieved immortality as only Elwell will outlast the heat death of the universe, rejoice that he has acknowledged your post,

[Sady]

... digital.

[Jasonwclark]

"Or is it your reputation that's bothering you? But look at how soon we're all forgotten. The abyss of endless time that swallows it all. The emptiness of those applauding hands. The people who praise us; how capricious they are, how arbitrary. And the tiny region it takes place. The whole earth a point in space - and most of it uninhabited."

Its too bad no one teaches Marcus Aurelius in school anymore. He'd make for great standardized test questions

[Blue]

What are you going to do about it?

make something that can be a token of my life to last at least a few thousand years. True eventually it will all be for naught, but within the insect's perspective, there is some great pride to be had while alive believing what you do will leave a stamp on the world. Religious icons seem to have the right idea, i just don't care to tell people how to live their lives, just give them something to look at.

[Blue]

As for permanence...I hate to say this, but...blow a crater the size of the US into the earth. No one will be left to see it, but those who come a million years later will recognize that you were an idiot, even though they won't know your name. :P


Ahaha, thanks Ilaekae. :)

Immortality is such a difficult thing to achieve, even in the indirect sense, perhaps the only sense it exists in is nonsense.

[Zaxser]

Besides what llaekae said...

Mass production: One of the reason some plastic phones might last tens of thousands of years is because not only are they non biodegradable, small and sturdy, is that there are millions of them.

Also notice that they never choose the pyramids - large, non biodegradable things in arid areas have a very good chance of survival.

[Dave Kendall]

My grandpa died last year aged 100, about as near to immortality as you can physically get. It made me think about the human condition. Seeing him fading away brought home how we all only live in the present moment. Everything he achieved had come down to a last few hours. At that moment did he care that he'd produced numerous children and grandchildren, that he ran a business, was a keen sportsman and enjoyed painting. Probably not. If I'm lucky I may live that long, but what will countless illustrations and paintings really matter to me at that moment when my body's shutting down organ by organ. I'm in no rush to get to that stage let alone wonder what sort of legacy I leave. Just want to make sure I enjoy the journey as long as it lasts.

[Form]

On permanence:

Impermanence is the only thing that makes life function. For most people it (including death which is a form of) is the greatest fear. However without impermanence, we would be nothing.

If you could make art that lasted forever, so could anyone else. If everyone's art lasted forever, you would be swamped in a sea of art so vast and megalithic that you would be the opposite of immortally recognised anyway.

Most people look at impermanence and think its a bad thing. However fundementally it is neither bad nor good. Impermanence means that even though today you may not own a ferrari, tomorrow you might own one because your, and your belongings, are not a permanent, fixed thing.

[Arteater]

Creation is what drives the human race. Give some people a ball and they create a game, with rules and boundaries it turns into something others admire. Give an artist a brush and they create a vision, that needs no boundaries, that can expand your mind to places never seen. Creating something admirable from nothing drives me.

Its amazing to think about who will see my art when I'm gone, but it does no good worrying about it. I have waisted too much of my life with that attitude of why. People always told me I had a natural talent for art, and for some reason always told me "its a good thing to fall back on". I took this advice for many years, telling myself If this doesn't work out, I can always do art. Nothing ever works out the way its dreamed. You have a gift, other people wish they had.It cant be meaningless, without it, I am a shell of a man.

I think Being here is vary strange, I like to look at us as an alien might. Silly little things that think the universe is all for them. We are so clueless as a life form, I think my dog has a better understanding on life then then we do.

do art because you can, and never forget the only reason why your good at art. Because we as a people say your good.As artists we show people what the mind is capable. I think to impress a life form that travels the universe would be a tough thing to do. But I have faith in your egg shaped gift from the people of earth :)

[Tri_beer_gut]

Let the decay of your art become part of it, every chip every stain is a new stroke, the story beyond the artist the life of the art the scars it holds all to be remembered and revisioned it becomes a limb the longer it goes intell it becomes nothing more.

God we all sound like abunch of jerks trying to be enigmas.

Well i hope this train of thought leaves, i still choke when i try to understand what could be the point behind all of this "life".

[Bruce Pluto]

Oh the old gloom and doom scenario. I’ve seen it on the History Channel a lot as of late and yes it does get one to wondering what good is it all. Good art, good house, good people you surround yourself with, but here’s another way to look at it.

Point A, We’re all going die and it’s all going to come to an end eventually. Watching the History Channel one could get the notion that it may be sometime soon. Why draw? Why paint? Why do anything? So here’s what to do. Take out a loan for a few hundred thousand; assuming you can get one, don’t worry about paying it back you won’t be here and maybe nether will anyone else.

Point B, live like a KING the rest of your days and when the bills start rolling in laugh at them and take joy in having everyone think you’re a nutcase (think I would really like that). Wait for that final day to show up and everyone still won’t think you were a genius because they’ll to busy trying to save themselves and everything.

Point C, now you’ve waited 2 years and nothing has happened, 4 years and still no end to the world, 6 years and everything is still here, 10years and you move out to the desert to escape and hide to get away from all the folks trying to catch you and put you in prison. Out there you spend your days with nothing to do so you pick up a drawing pad and start to draw. You stop and think, why am I doing this it will all be gone in a few years…..it is a vicious cycle isn’t it?

Point is, do what you like and what makes you feel good. It may all be gone tomorrow.

Bruce.

[Nam]

Sounds like vanity to me.

[kev ferrara]

Life is its own meaning. When you are filled up with life, you will be filled up with meaning.

Barring that, invest heavily in biotech.