Loomis head proportions question

[Maridius]

I've just started on the 'Heads and Hands' book by Andrew Loomis so I'm working through the construction of the head and his method of taking a relative measure of the distance between hairline, brow, nose and chin, which I don't have much trouble with until I try tipping a head back. It seems the measurements should 'foreshorten' to come out right because this lesson isn't gelling very well! All my heads come out like flat pancakes or too round. Can anyone who's been through this method clear things up for me? Should I keep the relative measures the same or enlongate them as I head toward the chin (when head is tipped back)?

Thanks for any help you can give!

[FLenG]

Post an image of what you're trying to do, its hard to envisioned in writing (for me tho).

[rattsang]

yes you need to foreshorten the measurements , how much you shorten depends on the distance of the viewer from the head and the viewing angle (as in camera lense size) use your eye to judge it , remember you look at ppl at angles all day long you know instinctively when it looks right.

[Maridius]

I posted a couple days ago and kept right on chuggin' with the practice--then true to form I figured out the foreshortening after a little more work. Odd that he doesn't openly mention that phenomenon when giving his initial instructions for how his method works. It throws you.

[Dorkthrone]

Right now, I'm having a problem with doing great 3/4ths faces. I just can't get that one eye on the left.

[Maridius]

Oh I know. The far side eye is a major bitch. Are you working with the same lessons?

[fantasyartist]

I had a lot of trouble with that too, but as rattsang already said you have to foreshorten the measurements. If your heads are looking flat it's because you are not giving the eye sockets, the nose and the mouth barrel enough dimension. One thing you can do is draw a tilted head correclty in sideview and project the measurments to the tilted view in perspective drawn next to it. Remember that perspective is a combination of the front, back, side, top and bottom view so it's all about locating the xyz coordinates of a point just like in a 3d program. I hope you can understand what I mean.

[dose]

Loomis spends a great deal of time talking about perspective in "Successful Drawing". I recommend you check it out, and learn at least the information there thoroughly. It might seem dreadfully boring, but it's really the foundation of realistic drawing and problems like this will continue to plague without a good understanding of perspective.

[Eurayo]

Make sure you include plenty of time with a live model or head sculpture. I'm still learning, but drawing from life, from memory and formulas and my imagination all seem to go hand in hand. If you've seen and attempted to draw from life the angles that give you trouble, I think you'll learn and retain more that way. Try building a scrapbook of faces at difficult angles to practice from. Take on a variety of head and facial types too. Loomis wrote:

"The element that contributes most to the great variation of identities is the difference in the shapes of the skull itself. There are round heads, square heads, heads with wide and flaring jaws, elongated heads, narrow heads, heads with receding jaws. There are heads with high domes and foreheads, and those with low. Some faces are concave, and others convex. Noses and chins are prominent or receding. Eyes are large or small, set wide apart or close together. Ears are all kinds of shapes and sizes. There are lean faces and fat faces, big-boned and small-boned ones. There are long lips, wide lips, thin lips, full lips, protruding lips, and equal variety in the sizes and shapes of noses. You can see that by cross multiplication of these varying factors, millions of different faces will be produced..."

When I use my anatomy for artist books, I try not to get too fixated on mastering the examples, and work extra hard at connecting the examples to real life whenever possible.

[Maridius]

Loomis should have written a 50's version of 'Perspective for Dummies' for the likes of me! Now that I've drawn a bit more since posting this question, I'm starting to get a tiny bit better and soon I'll have the guts to get into one of his little 'multiple figure' exercises. You know, the ones with so many lines crisscrossing the thing it looks like a spider with an advanced degree in bridge engineering decided to build a web there? Yeah. I'm all over that as soon as I can deal with simple 2 point perspective without trauma lol.

dose: I'll be sure to go through Successful Drawing. Thanks!

eurayo: That quote sounds familar. Is that in 'Heads and Hands'? I agree with not getting too devoted to copying the examples and nothing else. I love inventing my own faces.

fantasyartist: I think I know what you mean. Loomis has an example in 'Figure Drawing for What It's Worth' where he shows how you can work out a 3d figure if you have the profile, front and base.