shitty art

[bluemonika]

sorry people if this topic is not in the right place. feel free to remove or replace it somewere else if you must.

okay..i got tears in my eyes when i saw this on tv today ( and it wasn't of joy). there is this dutch artist who is going to hold an exhibition soon in amsterdam. his art is about shit...in this exhibition he shows shit of himself, his kids, his wife and other family members. puts them in gelly and presents them as food. he even has a movie of himself eating shit ( no joke )

not exacly trying to make you guys happy with this but what do you think of this art stuff? you see it a lot nowadays...and while i was busy making nice detailed pictures, the teachers at art school hated my stuff while they really praised things like this...

ow yeah...and he also asks about 12000 euro for some of his poop food....

is this really what people like nowadays? me? i hate it. while people like me and most other people on this forum are working their asses of to make nice pretty, quality art, that is pleasant to look at, some guy put some shit on a plate and gets rich with it....seriously....

ow yeah...and here are some pictures of his..."art" so you guys know what i am talking about....look at it at your own risk.
http://www.segall.nl/taartpuntje.jpg
http://www.segall.nl/familiesoep.jpg
http://www.segall.nl/gevela.jpg

so...what are you toughts on modern arts like these nowadays? most of them want to shock people and make them aware of things...but is it really neccessary to do it like this?

[Crush]

Without talking about whatever artistic value this has... those pictures of it are disgusting, especially when you mentioned that he had eaten some :dead:

[bluemonika]

yes...they are disgusting. the point that i am trying to make here is...how do you guys feel that a person actually receives a large sum of money to do something like this? ( or subsidy)

in my opinion it is kinda disturbing....

[Hyskoa]

People like that need to be put on a continent and cut off from the rest of the world.
Like Australia.

[enrigo]

Man , I've heard and seen pictures of a lot of "art performance" that looks just like freak shows to me but this is too freaky even for freak shows. :(

[Vodkaman]

Personally, I would cut his balls off and stuff them into his mouth for trying to pollute our culture with this shit.

[Recluse]

Thats like circus art. o.0 I was going to say I've heard of worse forms of "art", but then I thought about it and I cant say that I have.

[aesir]

As long as people pay for it, and give him attention, there will continue to be more shit.

[•Lindsay•]

There are always people who can't enjoy anything unless it's something no one else likes. It's just an extreme form of those kids who won't listen any band that becomes mainstream. Unfortunately if you complain about how disgusting eating feces is you only validate it in their minds.

I guess it's also possible that there are people who are genuinely into this sort of thing, but I don't think there are enough of them to start their own art show... right?

[nofingers]

"Eat shit and die."
Well, he's halfway there, hehe.

It's been done before (Manzoni). Still, it's disgusting.
319551

[kev ferrara]

People like that need to be put on a continent and cut off from the rest of the world.

They actually should be buried... in continent.

[Maidith]

is this really what people like nowadays?

No, if people liked that he'd probably not be doing it. He wants to shock and draw some attention.
The art people however, (galerists, curators, critics - those who aren't us common folks) are proficient at using Artspeak and can transfer everything into art, including the shittiest shit. Art used to be judged by the broader masses, by people like us, and that's different nowadays.

[Duman]

Its not really art, this is shit in the literal and artistical sence of the word. I say let ignorant people buy it, (and eat it). Because when all is said and done, its just shit. I have come to expect this of people.

[Ilaekae]

I say we flush the whole mess and forget about it...

[CCThrom]

Yeah it's aggravating to hear about someone getting paid good money for stuff like this. After fuming a bit though, I figure it's our job to shrug it off and keep working hard and doing what we do best. Not caring is probably the most telling response to an "artist" like this.

Funny how much it has been done before (GG Allen anyone?) and yet still continues to pull an audience that apparently doesn't realize the shock isn't even original.

I take some solace in knowing that it's even tough for these guys to break in to the field... I mean a handful of shit-flingers make a few bucks as "artists" vs the vast masses that remain drooling street lunatics.

[Rabid]

I want to make a counter art gallery across the street with toilets...or maybe daisies in the gelatin?

[tomwaits4noman]

clearly he is a no talent hack... who has display art like that,
sad really... I flush masterpieces down the toilet on a daily basis...

[kingshaj]

this kind of thing was big in the 80s its soooooo 1986
this kind of thing made a big splash more than 2 decades ago (pun intended)

he's a bit late to the poop party, but take heart, the art world is post-poop

i wonder if he pegs his levi's too, while dancing to SNAP
hmmm. say hi to Maplethorpe and Longo for me

[Whitevillage]

Another one of those so called 'shock' value art like the 'Jihad' on a Dutch flag or the cat/dog transformer made out of real animals. I sometimes chat around with people that followed abstract artclasses and who are disgusted by it and whe're joking that you have to put a canvas on the floor, put your pants down and to make the biggest crap on it and to fingerpaint that turd to create a heavily smelly master piece. This is too close to be true of what is said, sadly... I agree that the most sad part is, that people even invest in crap like this. Oh well, let's move on. :)

[Digital_Blacksmith]

Damn, and I thought Chasethehedgehog's artwork was complete shit.....

But seriously, let the people who think this is art continue to be. They will be laughed at by the other people, and prolly kill themselves when they figured out they spent a shitload of money on a literal shitload.

[Jens]

There was also the shit making machine, cloaca of Wim Delvoye

http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/bizart/cl_org_apen.jpg

http://bioephemera.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/cloaca.jpg

[Rist]

I hate the art world these days. I am glad I am hopefully going to focus on the commercial side of art.

This shit exhibition is a good thing, it is showing what crap the curators are allowing these days.

[MidgardSerpent]

Another dutch artist, Katinka Simonse (aka Tinkebell), strangled and skinned her cat and turned it into a purse. Supposedly it was social commentary on the hypocrisy of people, most of whom eat meat, raising such a ruckus about her killing her pet when thousands of animals get killed every day in the bio-industry.


Another one of her projects 'Save the males' dealt with a similar theme, she had a small booth where she was trying to sell baby chickens, there were only 9 buyers or so. Then as part of her performance, she was going to throw the ones that didn't get bought (i.e 'saved') into a shredder, because that would eventually happen to them anyway. Situation got really hostile, and the police had to be called to the scene. Not sure what happened afterwards to the chickens. http://www.tinkebell.com/savethemales.html




On another slightly related noted, Jordan McKenzie once made a series of sperm 'paintings' (with bits of charcoal added).

[Rist]

I realize that what the bio-industry and the commercial industry in general is doing; but that does not mean these people need to do this savagery just to make people aware of the obvious. It is also the eye of the opinionated that believes that a certain thing is right or wrong; what gives these people the right to force us to believe that a thing is right or wrong?

To me these people are present day Hippies that just campaign against anything.

[Hyskoa]

Would it also be considered art if I slowly suffocated all these artists as a sort of protest against the large number of killings that occurs in other parts of the world that humans don't care about?

Not to mention a service to humanity.

[Renegade89]

A modern art exhibition of pure shit?
Some people are praising and paying large sums of money for shit?
uhm, is weird, but that sounds awfully familiar...

Is disgusting... but gotta admit, the irony of it is lovely.
As far as i concern, if someone puts shit on a plate and makes money out of it, good for him, lucky bastard!, if some elitist moron buys it, fuck it, is his money.
Im not the one paying for shit anyway, other people are free to do whatever they please.
Besides annoying the hell out of me i dont see a specific way it affects my personal life, as long it stays that way, i wont give a "Segall" about it

[Digital_Blacksmith]

Would it also be considered art if I slowly suffocated all these artists as a sort of protest against the large number of killings that occurs in other parts of the world that humans don't care about?

Not to mention a service to humanity.

Ill pay you $5 whole dollars for the flesh of the cat killing bitch! She probably aint worth much more then that.

[Mike Frank]

This might sound radical but I feel that shit like this can go down thanks to the people who are actually purchasing the art. It's an insult to artists of integrity everywhere that this gets financed. Art is supposed to be a reflection of the culture and humanity we live in, an expression of our times. What does it say that someone is bankrolling off of art that is literally pure shit? Either our society sucks, or someone wants us to feel that way about ourselves. Whether it is a real debasement or manufactured I guess the end result is the same, it's sad and disgusting.

[Beonarri]

Different people have different opinions on what is or is not art. There are too many to count and each one is different. One man's art is another man's garbage. There's a house where I live, that's been painted over and done up with found-art. Some people consider it a pretty bit of trash, some consider it excellent artwork. Hell, I know plenty of people who consider everything on this site to be trash.

I think that once you start trying to tell some artists that what they create isn't art, you start down a slippery-slope very similar to the slippery-slope that happens when you start censoring people. Once you start limiting some artists, you risk the ability to make art for everyone.

Now, let's all play nicely here.

[Wooly ESS]

Far be it for me to declare what is or isn't art.

This stuff isn't quite to my taste, however!:yum: :gasmask:

[Mike Frank]

I dunno dude -- I just can't imagine winning those shits jars at auction -- then owning those jars of shit, putting them out on the library shelf as works of art -- so you can impress your friends when they come by.

I guess what I'm saying is that art is art, and if this guy wants to eat his own shit, or put it in a jar and call it "art" -- then that's fine, whatever.

But who's gonna pay $12000 euros for that?? Who looks at buying jars of shit as an artistic investment? How many hungry people could you feed for 12000 euros?

[Shirozora]

This reminds me of the introductory video to performance art in my (very quickly dropped) performance art class. If it was art, they had lost me.

When I went to SFMOMA a few years ago, there were some videos of some guy dressed as a satyr or something, doing random shit. I can't remember the guy but I think we were gonna study him in class. What I remembered was staring up at the video and thinking WTF? before walking away.

I can't figure out how it can be art. I guess it's just not my genre or taste. I just hope to earn a living off of what I can do.

[Nquyet]

I feel sick-and I'm not sure if its because of the shit discussion or the art discussion.

[MidgardSerpent]

I dunno dude -- I just can't imagine winning those shits jars at auction -- then owning those jars of shit, putting them out on the library shelf as works of art -- so you can impress your friends when they come by.

I guess what I'm saying is that art is art, and if this guy wants to eat his own shit, or put it in a jar and call it "art" -- then that's fine, whatever.

But who's gonna pay $12000 euros for that?? Who looks at buying jars of shit as an artistic investment? How many hungry people could you feed for 12000 euros?
On some level you're right, but you have to remember, it's up to the individual how to spend (or waste) his money. The majority of people on here have probably spend a good deal of money on luxury goods (including yourself) that could've went to the poor instead. And as annoying as it can be, value is often relative.

[enrigo]

It's true that it doesn't effect anyone else directly, but art school are gearing towards teaching people how to be a radical "genius" like these guys. In a way, it effects some other students who don't want to have anything to do with it.

My mother is very supportive about me learning art, but when she sees the type of ridiculous modern art she'll ask me again if I'm sure I want to study these things (with a concerned look on her face). These "art shit" are affect people like me dammit !

[paramnesia]

I see nothing beautiful nor clever about it, but if a fool wishes to part with his 12000 euro so be it; more the fool is he. Except that money could go to something better, to someone with real talent and creativity. We may collectively spend a lot of money on luxury items that could be put to better use, but we still enjoy those items for their function or aesthetics. Poop in gelatin has neither, in my opinion.

[DanielC]

A modern art exhibition of pure shit?
Some people are praising and paying large sums of money for shit?
uhm, is weird, but that sounds awfully familiar...

Is disgusting... but gotta admit, the irony of it is lovely.
As far as i concern, if someone puts shit on a plate and makes money out of it, good for him, lucky bastard!, if some elitist moron buys it, fuck it, is his money.
Im not the one paying for shit anyway, other people are free to do whatever they please.
Besides annoying the hell out of me i dont see a specific way it affects my personal life, as long it stays that way, i wont give a "Segall" about it

That's pretty much it imo. I didn't pay for it so i don't really care. And if you find it tasteless, then work your ass off to show some work that would replace it.

[ChristianWeeks]

All this talk about shit is making me giggle :tihi:

In all seriousness though, that is pretty effed up. I dont understand how things like that can even be considered art. UGGhhh that just gave me chills.

People these days... Putting their shit on a plate and calling it art. I'm going to use that expression from now on. Next time one of my classmates does a crappy job on an art piece, ill tell him "You might as well have taken a shit on a plate and turned that in. You could make 12000 euros."

[arttorney]

http://www.museumofbadart.org/

Regrettably, these guys don't seem to take much non-objective work into their collection. I'd definitely say this thread is about art that is "too bad to be ignored."

Oh wait! Here we go: http://www.museumofbadart.org/collection/portraiture-2.html

[Dorkthrone]

How long until this guy makes a piece based on the horror upon horrors that is 2girls1cup?
/I feel so unclean just for saying that

[steve kim]

while i probably wouldn't wanna be around the poo-flinging performance those pictures of poo in resin or whatever is pretty cool. you could admire them up close without having to deal with the stench and overall sense of revulsion when u see it 'in the wild'

that one dudes poo machine is cool too thanks for the heads up.

i've no problem with poo

[SirJohanna]

I have no respect for art like his, reminds me of this guy who spraypainted his shit gold and got lots of support too. :( Sure anything can be art according to many, but I still wonder... why do some people claim to like it? I'd really like to know why, because right now my theories are that they're either just trying too hard to be all hip and controversial, or they're just fecophiles. :O

[Steph]

this kind of "art" doesn't really bother me. It's like "ok, so it's shit, i get the point, not very impressive, but whatever"

Maybe some of it is even cool to look at.

What bothers me is the pretentious attitude that surrounds this type of artist. It's like they all think they're doing something meaningful and provocative.

Like that Tinkerbell artist. I cant even read the descriptions she gives to her "art" because it's just so full of pompous bullshit. Does she seriously think she's sending some kind of profound message to society? I dont even mind that she uses dead animals in her art, we all know taxidermy is a respectable artform. It's her attitude that sucks!!! performance art in general sucks, to me.


yeah, i much prefer to look at the type of stuff we have here on concept art or visit a museum for master paintings!

[kev ferrara]

The following is my opinion:

The point of the taboo game is to "out" the conservatives. This sets up a "sophisticated us" versus a "hung up provincial bourgeoisie them" split. That is the value that is being purchased when some wanna-be hipsters purchases the work. To be snarkily against the bourgeoisie, the average working person. This thread is a testament to the effectiveness of the strategy. If you don't out yourself, there is no game.

Thus, a more nuanced response might be, for those who wish to see the end of this kind of designed outrage, to yawn at it. Call it boring and don't say another word about it. Seen it before... yawn.

This turns the tables on the oh-so-shocking-radicals and paints them as the conservatives, the re-treads. Which is what they are after all... because all these childish tricks are reduxes of Duschamp's urinal from 90 years ago.

This has been my opinion.

kev

[Coinpurse]

Hey thanks,
I was in the middle of eating breakfast 'till I found this thread :)
Im no longer hungry.

[Giorge]

Art has many faces , this is just something new and it will disappear as quick as it came. That's why there are art critiques. I saw lots of art that looked like shit , and i cant be the judge, tastes are not arguable , if you like shit you like shit. Art is seen different trough every set of eyes. The "shit" art dose not amaze me , i saw penis in cans gallery's , sperm paintings , blood paintings , and so on. I think that in abound 20 years or so this tipe of weird art will disappear .If the artists mobilize and do something else either then this crap it will change. So for the time-being think of something new :)

[Cepro]

The shitmaking machine was kind of interesting.
Tinkebell, at first I thought it was kind of childish, really only telling us what we allready know. But after seeing her website, I really don't know anymore what it is exactly that she is trying to tell us. I guess I'd have to take a more profound look into it.
I recently saw a picture that was made with blood. I think it was a lithography. It didn't look like blood at first and I think it was really interesting. It wasn't childish nor provocative at all. I guess it depends on how you present it. It was a picture about the artists childhood and I thought it was really personal.
A friend also told me that she recently was at an exhibition where an artist made jewlery out of animal poo (I think it was Rabbitpoo). She said she really like it and I think the idea is rather interesting.
In the end, I think the question is not what you use, but how you use it.
By the way I didn't like the shit in gelly.

[ploy]

Yep, that has been done before. Nothing is new.

[Tri_beer_gut]

Well i didn't read all of this but maby its the last attempts at trying to be original? every idea has been used except eating shit...

[Steph]

Well i didn't read all of this but maby its the last attempts at trying to be original? every idea has been used except eating shit...


Read up a few comments ^^^^ it has been done before! I think that's one of the things people find ridiculous about it... it's a lame attempt at trying to be shocking. Heheh, can you imagine being so desperate to shock people that you'd eat your own... ah forget it, i rather not think of it!

[Wooly ESS]

To be honest, watching someone eat shit is shocking!

Not "good" shocking though.



I can't believe I've posted twice in this discussion!

[Vhan Juju]

What bothers me is the pretentious attitude that surrounds this type of artist. It's like they all think they're doing something meaningful and provocative.


Bravo Bravo! couldn't think of a better way to put it myself! THAT is deffinitley the part that bothers me the most.

[Cepro]

Just found this video interview with the artist who made the shit-making machine:
http://www.artivi.com/encounters/delvoye.php?num=15&type=last
"I just consider myself as the person who makes a lot of shit a day" ;)

[LORD M]

I see this kinda things as pseudo-art. Something that wants to be art but really isn't art. Like that sick guy that was into bestiality and shot movies of himself fucking a dog and got it in an art-gallery! I hate this kinda shit!

[eclectic rhapsody]

That's not art; that's just a guy with a fetish! :o


But for trues, even if no one person can define what really is art, I can't help but feel that what he's doing is a little bit cheap. It's, like...all shock factor.

Yuck...

[aussiedeza]

I agree with "stevekim" you got to admit if you walk past that exhibit in the street you would go and have a look.
The dude certainly hasn't made any friends in the artist community but just look at this thread for example he has generated allot of interest towards himself and i am no expert but i think being known gets you paid more often then having creative talent, sadly i am aiming for the talent side of art and am probably going to be a poor arse for the rest of my life oh well atleast i can be proud of my work.

[otis]

LOL! I love this world! This just proves that you can sell anything to anybody!
Even if it's just SHIT. :yum:

I always wondered why people still give museums so much credit? :wtf: :asskisser:

Lesson: Everything in this world is valued on perception.

So go out and sell your art!!! :ilaekae:

[J Wilson]

"Eat shit and die."
Well, he's halfway there, hehe.

It's been done before (Manzoni). Still, it's disgusting.
319551

Yeah, it's been done before. I like to believe that the (original) artist's actual statement was "Look, all you fine artist bullshit types will buy anything. You'd buy shit if I labeled it artist's shit." And they did. Collector's loved the statement and bought it all up as a valuable statement about what the fine art industry had become, thereby showing that they truelly didn't get it.

The REALLY funny thing though is none of those cans of shit were meant to last the test of time, and years later they have started exploding. Now all these collector's have are leaky cans of shit.




I wish I could say eventually the fine art field will wise up and call "bullshit" to these shock value "artists", but they won't. They'll keep evolving into their own niche until we need a whole new word to describe what it is they do.

To the original poster though, you just went to the wrong school. Not all art schools are the heads stuck up their ass variety. I wouldn't give my money to any school that didn't teach what I wanted to learn. The sad thing is a lot of these schools are kept afloat by the same students that want to learn actual art skills, the same ones they look down on. Cut off their money, support the schools that teach decent skills and maybe some of that bullshit art will dry up.

[Robert.B]

for his next piece he should devour his own testicles that way he cant procreate .

[hippl5]

What the hell is wrong with these peoples? They think that living with lice in your hair for three weeks makes you an artist (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080428/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_israel_art_germany;_ylt=ApzGiVYgWB1rxvKUf gqq..DtiBIF).

[phoenicorn]

I think it is funny how we go on about shit and taste in the same sentence. damn his work must have taken hours to make (digesting and all). On a serious note I really don't see the point of this art. So you can shit, big whoop, so can the rest of us

[Anid Maro]

So you can shit, big whoop, so can the rest of us

The prime difference being, we have sufficient taste as to not try and make food of it. :P

[omar]

this modern art thing is one big joke...every jerk that comes with something shocking and try's to kick up dust gets the titel "artist"

if you shit on the ground or on a canvas you're an artist, you put chickens trough a grinder you're an artist, if you insult islam or muslims (take a pick) you're an artist, take an empty room and put a chair in the middle of the room with a brick on top of it...you're an artist , actually if those so called artist would make this really stupid peace and name it "stupid art peace" they probably would make a ton of money because wow the title is so deep, there's this whole filosofy behind it.......yeah wright

[seba_boi]

Reminds me of Pink Flamingos....

[Gerulaitis]

Ironicaly, now this is the only type of (post-)(post-)(post-)modern art that seems to get noticed...
Ironicaly, our attention makes it "art".
And people who "don't like modern/contemporary art or fine art" mean this "art", since they don't know any other contemporary art. And when this crap is put in the same "pot" with other contemporary art, how do you expect it not to spoil the "taste"?

Even on conceptart, these shit-artists get more attention than any other fine art. (Have you done a forum-search before posting the thread? I'm pretty sure shit's use as medium in contemporary art has been discussed atleast several times.) That... kind of makes me sad. :[

[TASmith]

This joke was best told by George Carlin on an HBO special.

"I want to have an art exhibit"
"what will you show?"
"first I'm going to put my shit on display. then I'm gonna have my wife's shit and my son's shit next to it so people can compare. Then I'm gonna strip naked and shit in front of everyone. So's my whole family. Then I'm gonna take all this feces, and make a shit sandwich, and a shitty salad, and shit chocolate cake, and I'm gonna eat the whole thing in front of everyone. With the leftovers my son's gonna throw it at the audience, and charge them $1,200 for every piece. Then I'm gonna puke on the shit and eat it again. When it's all done, I'll sell the shit stained table cloth and clothing for a million each. The show ends with my whole family getting an ambulence to the hospital where we're treated for food poisoning."

"what's this show gonna be called?"

"THE PRODUCERS!!!!!"

Never did get the joke, but so long as we're on the subject. :P

[Pigeonkill]

That's just not very tasteful...but I guess each their own. It will eventually die out and he has to cook up some other random thing:

If they want a pooh'fest let them have it here:

http://www.ratemypoo.com/top.html

[MidgardSerpent]

That's just not very tasteful...but I guess each their own. It will eventually die out and he has to cook up some other random thing:

If they want a pooh'fest let them have it here:

http://www.ratemypoo.com/top.html
I'm not going to click on that link.

[VulgarDragon]

Me either. This whole affair leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. While we are still on the subject, check this out. Some "artists" are letting themselves be infested with lice as art....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7370842.stm

[tarc]

I've always wondered how future generations will look on the art world today.


The ultimate "avant-garde" personification?
The short term attention showdown?
The birth of communications?

[DeJakhalz]

Hehe we Dutchies always had weird artists... Ive already seen this guy on a talkshow about his poo art, its kinda disturbing.

Some people think art can be everything, unfortunatly I cant agree on that. Especially after seeing this...its alsmost like he is disrespecting art...

[kev ferrara]

...its almost like he is disrespecting art...

almost

[ASRA]

As "the point of this art" I see the statement that you can put any shit as art these days.

To my opinion this really is a truthful statement.

But
it is a statement, not a piece of art.

(By the way: You may be affronted, shocked, disgusted, dpressed by such an exhibition. To wish someone getting murdered, castrated, exiled is another story. I understand the anger, but I have no acceptance for a reaction like that)

ASRA

[Vhan Juju]

=Vhan doesn't think that this is art either=

[aea]

The world is full of irony everyday. It's just some people have learned to sell it.

[vivektheanimator]

without a doubt its disgusting but one thing we have to admit without being prejudice that its a good level of creativity. the man knows how to present things.

[Blaz]

That art is the same shit as so called art of bringing half dead dog to a gallery so the people can see him dying.

An utter crap!

(though those soups made me lol, quite interesting)