Vorp mentors Blastsniper

[vorp]

Here's a thread for some wild learning action!
Vorp (me) is going to try and help Blastsniper grow in power and ability.
I'm sure i'll learn plenty along the way myself.
First time mentoring so I apologize in advance for being entirely clueless.

[vorp]

Okay Blastsniper. Here we go!
Based on your sketchbook pieces I am very eager to put you on an "all-3D" regimen for a little while.
This means concentrating on breaking out of looking at the paper and what you draw on it as 2d (which, of course, it is) and really pushing into the 3rd dimension in a way that makes it feel natural to you.
This will eventually lead to your mastery of 3-point perspective drawing but we can start on figures.

Here's your first exercise, given to me several years ago, that I think is worth a lot towards the above goal:
1. Get at least 3 pictures of figures. Make sure they're as much of the body as possible. If you're working digitally then you can find them on the web. If analog then magazines should work fine.
2. For each figure, trace an image over the top. Do it in photoshop if you're working digitally. Analog use tracing paper (of course!). Personally, I recommend analog for this sort of practice.
What you want to do is simply break the body into the following pieces using cylinders:
head, upper body, lower body (including pelvis), upper arm x2, lower arm x2, upper leg x2, lower leg x2.
This is, on first glance, looking like a glorified stick-figure representation.
But the key thing to make right (that means put some extra thought and observation into it): the end caps of the cylinders. They should be, as you can guess, ellipses of different degrees depending on whether the body part is moving away or towards the viewer. This is the key to the exercise.
3. Extra credit: Make the cylinders slightly tapering to match (roughly) the change in width of the body part. You'll probably due this naturally but I don't want to see complex messy cylinders! Just slightly tapering or not at all.

Keep in mind that how clean and confidently you can do this exercise is a good indicator of being ready to move deeper into constructing figures accurately and convincingly. So if it feels difficult or unnatural, do more than 3. Do 10. But I'd like to see at least 3. If you've got your cylinder people and you're happy and ready to move on, see if you can start elaborating the cylinders a bit with clothing, connectivity (like knees), feet, hands, etc.

Good luck and have fun.

[Blastsniper]

I dont clearly get this assignment, could you give me an example of the cilinder figure maybe? i would greatly appreciate it.

i did this, but i think the cylinders are overdone and its not simple enough..
I'll start working on the real thing when you give me some tips how it should look like.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cilinders.jpg

[vorp]

Those are pretty good in terms of breaking a figure down into volumes!
Are those invented poses or did you have reference?

My main critiques would be:
1. The poses are pretty uniform. It would be great to have more complex, overlapping body parts in some poses. And foreshortening!
2. The component forms (mostly cylindrical) seem a bit sloppy and rushed.

What you've done is the basic idea, but try to use reference photos and use very consistent shapes for the different body parts.
For example the bottom left has an upper body shape that shows ellipses on top and bottom whereas the figure just to the right (bottom middle) shows a more cylindrical volume with only the top cap visible. If these are the same basic volume then the left one is impossible.

I don't have time right now to do an example (got to get to bed) but if you're still confused tomorrow then I'll post an example.

[Blastsniper]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cilinders2-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cilinders3-1.jpg

more attempts, i still would appreciate it if you could post an example.

[vorp]

You're doing the right type of thing. Here's an example:
http://vorp.smugmug.com/photos/259807379_nABAh-L.jpg

The key thing that I think differs from yours is the consistency of the cylinders. Keeping them very cylindrical forces you to think about the arrangement of the body parts very clearly. So, draw line down the central axis of each, if necessary, and make sure the end caps are true, or close to true, cylinders. The photoshop elliptical marquee can be used as well.
Look at your cylinder figures and ask yourself: Can I drop a line from any point on this figure down to the ground plane and know where it should hit in 3d space? If you can't then you aren't really sure where your drawing is in the 3d world. And if you don't know that, you're going to run into bigger problems down the line.
Make sense? Hope that's useful.

[Blastsniper]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cylinders3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cylinders2.jpg


these ones are better right?

[vorp]

Yes, that's looking better!
And also make sure to step back and see if you're brain can really understand the arrangements of the body parts in space.
Say you want to now start putting symmetric details on the character. Like elbow patches, or shoulder armor. Can you do that? Not to make it look detailed and cool, but just to get the placement correct? So, as another step in the exercise, try putting eyes on the head (just circles is fine), knee pads, elbow pads, and shoulder guards on the best cylinder figure you've done. It may be harder than it sounds, because the elbow pads must be _behind_ the direction of bend of each arm. The same idea for the other items. Placing these kinds of details forces you to DECIDE how each body part is oriented. And until you've decided that everything you try to do with the figure could run amok.

[Blastsniper]

Hey, sorry im so late with this, but lots of exams and school and i completely forgot about this..
Anyway, i tried my best placing those armor patches on a cilinder figure.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cilinders3001.jpg
messed up lotsa stuff.. the horn things serve as indicator where its pointing at.

Oh, also im getting a tablet this week so it will be easier for me to do the cilinder figures. :D

[vorp]

Those are looking pretty good.
One thing that I'm feeling could be useful at this stage is to make sure you have a strong sense of planes and changes of planes.
The figure above is made out of cylinders, which don't have lots of planes, and disc-like shapes.
The key thing I'm going towards: Making sure you can describe all the important planes of your various forms on the page so that you can shade and light the object believably.
And this feeds into what must be the single most useful rule of drawing in 3d in my mind: a change of plane means a change of tone. Scott Robertson repeats this over and over again in his DVDs for good reason.
When you want to really create the feeling of form in a drawing you'll have to light the object (add tone, darks where appropriate). If you don't have a good idea of the planes (at least simplified) of every surface you've drawn, the drawing will start to fall apart.
And also, most objects in nature can be broken down, roughly, into different easy-to-understand planes.

So, as next exercise, why don't you refine the figure above by interpreting the cylinders as having front, back and sides. Assume the light is coming from in front of the figure and add some value (darks) to the planes that wouldn't be getting hit by direct light. You don't have redraw the outlines. Just add internal edges so that each cylinder (and the head) becomes a kind of semi-box-semi-cylinder form.

Make sense?

[Blastsniper]

Sorry about my late reactions, highschool exams and such. Busy busy. Well, i tried doing the assignment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/neo_blast1000/cilinders3-001.jpg

Is this what you ment? if not, could you give me an example of a single cilinder?