question for the pros

[catterpillar]

how much does pro concept art/ illustration etc pay? and don't give me any of that 'dont quit your day job' crap. I mean if you're good, how much can you make, taking for granted that you can get a job? I hope I got the right forum for this one...

[Jason Manley]

it aint about the money man....you will find that out for yourself...especially if yer going to be a concept artist...its about the projects you are on and having a good team who can utilize what you do.

you can make as much as you can make....in the games industry...pros can easily reach into the six figures...or a LOT more depending on what the royalty package is...starting pay is around 50k per year and it climbs from there.


j

[Lono]

depends on where you live too and how much experience you have.. in Dallas everyone wanted to start the new guys around 30-35. the more industry experience you have the more leverage you have with haggeling your salary.

but jason is right.. its not about fat paychecks because there rarely as fat as id like them to be.. its about working with a team of creative and like minded people on something exciting and larger than yourself. ive had a lot of good experiences in the industry,, made a lot of lifetime friends, and its taken me to some very interesting places and given me a purpose there.. it can get very stressfull at times and it is possable to end up at a company that can ruin your social life,, but you live and learn and at the end of the day your almost always thankfull..

-Lono

[Jason Manley]

if yer good...aint no way yer gonna get stuck at 30 grand....anyone of high talent and quality portfolio should start around the minimum of 45...period.


j

[Sammy]

Another question..
how reasonable is it.. provided you have the talent and work-ethic .. is it to move on to such positions such as Art Lead or a Production Designer.. once you have proper knowledge of the process and experience.

and what about producing / directing?

[Lono]

Jason Manley: i agree,, but believe me,, ive done the rounds in Dallas and i know of a few places in partictular that will not hire on a green artist for 45.. i personally wouldnt work for any less than that but i have industry experience.. as im sure you know,, there is a sea of artist trying to get into games and all too often companies will choose cost over quality.
i think thats a horrable way to build a team but it happens all the time. also a lot of these third party developers are run by a head that is completely detatched from the body and they are not always qualified to identify quality in a portfolio.. they are more often looking for a person who has shipped games.

my point was,, if you are green and you can afford to take the time to build up your portfolio and wait for the right company to see the value in your work and give you the salary you think you deserve apon entry,, than by all means do that.. if not,, maby taking a smaller salary in the begining is more of an investment in your future career.

-Lono

[gasmask]

good thread and good advice

[stalecracker]

*CHIME*

Yep, I agree with Lono and Jason.

Sammy: It is completely reasonable. I started as a texture/pixel pusher for a post Doom pre Quake style game and 7+ years later I'm a Senior/Lead at Sony. Remember though... the higher up you move... the less art you might produce. I, personally, freelance to stay creative. Primarily because I spend 75% of my day "making the rounds", in meetings and doing approvals/critiques. *blech*

[catterpillar]

holy crap! I mean- I know its not about the money but you gotta eat but.. even $45 grand US thats- what - nearly $90 grand australian! jesus! I could go over there, work for a couple of years, come back and buy a mansion on bondi! and it wouldnt really be like work! wooooooooooooooo :chug:

[catterpillar]

I say its only right that those who probably put the most creative input out of anyone into games and films etc. should be well compensated! Thanks for the knowledge guys!

[NOOSE]

Here`s a dumb question~!.....whats a concept "type" job that doesnt require you to move to the companies country or state?..were you can work via internet, snail mail and phone ect?

[Jason Manley]

Originally posted by NOOSE
Here`s a dumb question~!.....whats a concept "type" job that doesnt require you to move to the companies country or state?..were you can work via internet, snail mail and phone ect?

It's called Massive Black. watch and see.

its also called reaching a level of professionalism where the clients come to you because of what you do and who you are. established. If you can get that far then you can branch out into the world on your own.

some do get concept gigs doing characters for WOTC etc...those gigs illustrating books can be done from anywhere.

most companies do want their concepting done at least partially in house...if not fully. some, however, would rather put that positions budget on a 3d artist and simply farm out the concept work. People do make a living doing that...but in my experience that is something that comes later in ones career. After all...if youve never made a game with a company before..or a film..how the heck could ya do it by yourself in your basement studio?

game development and film are complex projects...very complex...doing a great job first time out (without a team around you) may prove difficult unless it is just morsels of ideas you are being asked to illustrate.

gotta pay the dues inside a company most times. stalecracker paid his dues for a long time..now I would assume he finds it much easier to get cool freelance gigs...am i right?

it is much easier to branch out once one is established.

draw paint draw paint til then....its the doorhandle in your hand when you use that wacom or brush or marker...go anywhere you choose if you use it.


j

[Sammy]

so much great advice

thank you cracker, lono, and manley.
I'm off to practice

"Massive Black" eh? is that like when a company wants less to develop a concept and more your creative style?

[stalecracker]

Jason: Are you calling me OLD?!? HAH...

Most of the "pro's" on this forum have aid our dues. I 'v ebeen doing illustration 4 almost 20 years. Started in Screenprinting moved onto comics then Concept work. Now, I've found a nice balance working at a company AND freelancing. It's STRESSFUL but fun. Balancing a J.O.B. with a freelance "business", 2 kids and a Wife. Plus I sleep 4 hours a night due to my weird internal sleep clock. But... the best advice I ever heard was from a Professor...

"Every Artist is a "

After I quit laughing he 'splained further... If you do art for the sake of doing art and are unwilling to "stoop down" to doing art you don't like or is "beneath you" Well, welcome to the world of the STARVING artist. Be prepared to take a few on the chin. Smile when your A.D., Lead or Producer tells you to make a ridiculous change to YOUR art (and you HAVE to) and on and on and on... Remember, Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel for the money... so he could afford to keep sculpting. Do what you have to do (while remaining ethical) to be able to do what you love.

[NOOSE]

Jason- Thanks for the explanation on the biz...I suppose Some of the people that have done some of the great art on box covers and in cut scenes have received enough exposure that they can get freelance work,...but every now and then I see some wicked good art on a box or poster, and cant find the name of the artist and I often wonder how people in those positions get their deserved credit?

you can learn a metric ton from this site :)

[egerie]

Thank you guys for that positive input. I've been starting to get seriously disanchanted from working in the gaming industry for some time now.
Got to get back home and finally break those paint bottles open. After I'm finished with that crunch time that is.. :rolleyes:

Noose : you're absolutely right. Would be a great slogan for CA.org !

[Sammy]

Smile when your A.D., Lead or Producer tells you to make a ridiculous change to YOUR art (and you HAVE to) and on and on and on

I'm trying to prepare for this in the future :D
... There's so much trite/generic crap designs floating arround the game/film industry.. I always wondered about those artists.. now I wonder about the directors of those artists...

got any interesting stories to tell about "whoring" yourself Cracker??? (by that I mean a time when you rolled your eyes so much at a directors request that they got lodged backwards in your skull)

[catterpillar]

ooh its all so exciting.. I'm so gonna go over to america or europe after university and seek my fortune!!!

to concept art!!! :chug:

[keyth]

yup...definitely depends on where you live. in the midwest for a green artist, as lono put it, it's around 35. it ALSO helps to be flexible with your skillset(VALUABLE for games). just beware.....if you're sitting around making your own drawings and thinking to yourself "man this would be great to do for a living" then think again. it's hard. changes need to be made all the time. and, there may be changes you don't want to do. if i can give you any advice you haven't heard already.....it's learn to be FAST. speed is a big factor man.