How Much about being an Artist is about being Popular?

[NoSeRider]

There have been plenty of artists that weren't recognized for their ability, and only praised after there deaths, such as:

http://www.vangoghgallery.com/
Van Gogh

http://www.artnet.com/artist/11043/antonio-mancini.html
Antonio Mancini

So how much about 'art' is about asserting yourself....making people believe in you?

Even Djurdjevic said it was 90% selling himself, and 10% actual work.

And please don't tell me my question is stupid. I find this more entertaining then talking about Wacom's and girlfriend/boyfriend problems.

[wassermelone]

Theres no denying theres a large social component behind art.

Its behind anything.

Who want to hire a douche?

[kev ferrara]

It has occurred to me recently that, essentially, art might be all about creating metaphors for life. Burke says Story is "equipment for living" and I think much of art falls within the narrative (story) tradition, even portraits. And I would say that story is clearly a popular art.

Furthermore, I think artists generally like emotional attention for their work. That is, they want popular acclaim.

And lastly, artists, like most people, would like to eat, be comfortable and live somewhere nice. Thus money is a good idea.

Hard to escape the popular nature of art, I think. I think a lot of the verbiage you hear to the contrary is either spite, jealousy, or dogma talking. I've been wrong before, though.

[Yanomeko]

Yeah, but its gotten better and worse. The good news, that exposure to a high degree gets you attention well and makes you famous, albeit even more famous after death, but way higher then before when you alive. Bad news is that those who are actually 90% work and only get 10% exposure and are just freakin awesome or show massive potential are in the media/world's cellars and basements, which makes for a really harsh outlook in an artist's future outlook on life and when they die...they become even less famous then before.

So we are still in a difficult period of art, hopefully, the future will allow those great hidden artists to be far more exposed.

[Jason Manley]

if you cant do the work, then what good is being well known for not being able to do the work?

[Meloncov]

To being an artist? Almost nothing. To being a commercially successful artist? More than half.

[squidmonk3j]

How Much about being an Artist is about being Popular?
How Much about being a Popular Artist is about being Popular?
How Much about wanting to be a Popular Artist is about being Popular?
How Much about wanting to be a Popular Artist is about being an Artist?

ask better questions, get better answers.

[James Kei]

You guys have got it all wrong! Art is porn.

[Grief]

You guys have got it all wrong! Art is porn.

how much of porn is about having abnormally large genitalia?

[Farsh]

^ Amen.

[NoSeRider]

OK, fine.

How much about being an artist is about not asking anything and being brain dead?

Hey, it's about selling yourself, ain't it?

[arttorney]

Being popular is more about being viewed as an artist rather than actually being an artist. Others have said this in other ways.

Conversely, though, if you can draw exactly what you meant to draw whenever you want to there might still be a problem. If "whatever you want to draw" turns out to be stuff people will always consider to be crap, then the only person who considers you to be an artist is you. You need skill to tap into peoples psyche somehow, as well as skill making your marks.

If you get into their psyches, then people will be easier to convince when it comes time for the sales job.

[Rist]

I'd love to be as popular as Damien Hirst. Lovely manor he has, I do say myself.

[Penumbra]

If you haven't already you should read "Art and Fear" and "The War of Art". Very slim books but very insightful in this regard.

Most(I believe the war of Art says its in the 95-98%) artist's who claim to be professional on their income tax returns make less than 3000.00usd a year doing art.

So most artists aren't very popular at all(relatively speaking).


"The artist is likely to be looked upon with some uneasiness by the more conservative members of society... It may be a point of great pride to have a Van Gogh on the living room wall, but the prospect of having Van Gogh himself in the living room would put a good many devoted art lovers to rout."
> Ben Shahn

But if you put the word "Successful" in front of the word "Artist" things change quite a bit...

[Lukias]

I'm not sure if this only applies to NZ but supposedly only one in one thousand "artists" actually make a living out of it. Thems great odds.

[HunterKiller_]

It's about more than about more than 50.

[Penumbra]

It's about more than about more than 50.

LOL...I saw that thread.
Art is the most better ways to gather millions of currency.(paraphrase)

[Elwell]

People hire people that they get along with.
So...
Face it, Nosey, you're screwed.;):P

[NoSeRider]

Face it, Nosey, you're screwed.

Well, I know that, but ,jeesh, you don't have to get personal about it.

[Slash]

Nice one Elwell.

I believe it was Staz Johnson that said something along these lines:

You have to be two out of these three: Good, Fast and Friendly. If you're Good and fast, it doesn't matter too much if you're an asshole. If you're Friendly and Good, it doesn't matter if you're a little slow. etc etc.

I dunno why, but that kind of stuck to me as good advice. So now i'm aiming for all three. ;)

[Jabo]

how much of porn is about having abnormally large genitalia?

Oh, it's that time of the week again?

http://www.seancoon.org/wp-content/postimages/whale-penis.jpg

[light]

This is honestly the dumbest question. Popularity isn't some number that dictates anything directly, but if nobody knows you exist nobody is gonna offer you a job and then you don't work, starve and die I mean how complicated is that christ man


Now that we got that out of the way I can ask my question, how much good is elbow control in art ? ? ?? ??

[NoSeRider]

This is honestly the dumbest question. Popularity isn't some number that dictates anything directly, but if nobody knows you exist nobody is gonna offer you a job and then you don't work, starve and die I mean how complicated is that christ man


Bullshit. The game industry is full of nepotism. They'll dump you on a dime if they feel you don't fit in.....ergo, popularity.....unless of course you're golden and make money for them.

Christ Man, get real.

[NoSeRider]

"I want to offer my sincerest apologies to everybody," said a despondent Jeff Butler. The president and executive producer at Vanguard: Saga of Heroes developer Sigil Games gave a heartfelt and off-the-cuff statement to the gathered employees in the parking lot. "This isn't what I brought you all to this company for, and it isn't how I wanted things to end up."

That was the scene at Sigil's Carlsbad, CA headquarters on Monday afternoon. The mass-termination of all the company's employees follows an announcement that publisher Sony Online Entertainment acquired the Vanguard IP and all of Sigil's game assets. Yet, it wasn't anyone at Sony Online who delivered the awful news...but rather, Sigil's production director Andy Platter.


http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3159549

Here's something that happened locally. They just called all the employees, and BAM! You gone.....unless they liked you.
Gather you up in a parking lot and fire you. Man, there is absolutely no class in that.

[NoSeRider]

wObmQcWXw6w

For those of you that are into beastiality.....ENJOY!

AAmFFd3b1z8

[Mike Corriero]

I think Popularity has a lot to do with being Successful
In my personal opinion, being popular is just as important as being capable of producing quality work. Here are a few things I've noticed:

If you're great at promoting yourself and great at networking it can quite often get a mediocre artist more work than someone who is more talented and not very good at self promotion. Having friends in the right places can often give you a better chance at being promoted and obtaining paid jobs. If you're friends with the right people you some times get privileges you wouldn't normally get if you're at the same level of talent. Unfortunately playing favorites is a part of how things work behind the scenes.

If you're very popular with fans and have a large following of groupies who love your work, what does it matter if the people who count concerning jobs (art directors, art managers, clients, publishers, companies) don't see your work the same way outside fans do?

Personal taste in work and popularity among your peers goes a long way over being extremely talented. Of course talent counts for a lot as well but again, if you're not respected by those who are willing to pass your name along or buy your products or hire you...where does that leave your work?

I think it goes both ways and works out by chance.
Mike -

[Costau D]

I have to be popular?... *sigh*

Might as well quit. Cant live a pipe dream.

Not much of a talker. Hard for me to convey ideas to people. Stuttering, and forgetting words etc.

i feel for those who have to struggle more than the other great people who can pick things up quicker.

Screw it

I'm having fun.

[romance]

Success dictates popularity and popularity dictates success.

It's an art loop thats self sufficient as long as your producing decent work and your not an asshole.

[light]

Bullshit. The game industry is full of nepotism. They'll dump you on a dime if they feel you don't fit in.....ergo, popularity.....unless of course you're golden and make money for them.

Christ Man, get real.

I'm not saying popularity isn't important I'm saying that popularity is related with every single job and figuring out stuff like this for yourself takes first grade problem solving.

[NoSeRider]

I'm not saying popularity isn't important I'm saying that popularity is related with every single job and figuring out stuff like this for yourself takes first grade problem solving.

http://www.artnet.com/artist/11043/antonio-mancini.html
That's why Antonio Mancini didn't get the recognition he deserved....because he wasn't a sycophant and a suck up, but he was still a great artist....better then you guys. Well, he was a master painter. How many of you guys are seriously willing to call yourselves that?

Here's my question:
How Much about being an Artist is about being Popular?

I said "How Much"...meaning I know you need it, but in how much quantity?
MikeCorriero answered my question, and very nicely. Thank you.

kev ferrara did a good job too....and Penumbra.
And amazingly Slash actually provided something of substance.

I like the advice I get with my stupid ass questions. Very insightful.

[Flake]

There have been plenty of artists that weren't recognized for their ability, and only praised after there deaths, such as:
http://www.vangoghgallery.com/
Van Gogh
http://www.artnet.com/artist/11043/antonio-mancini.html
Antonio Mancini


Alright, that's two.

Compared to any list of great artists who were well recognised and praised during their lifetimes or even just working away quietly and making a decent living, that's statistically insignificant.

Just saying.

[Ilaekae]

Two of the richest, most powerful people in my area both think I'm an absolute asshole, but they both have a piece of my art on their walls. Everybody seems to like THEM, but I doubt anyone has a copy of either of their stock portfolios on the wall...


...ummmm...I forgot where I was going with this...






:P

[Blue]

I fail to understand how popularity makes me a better artist. And really, that should be all that matters.

[Slash]

Blue, i don't think the question was about being a better artists, but actually making a living as an artists, and how popularity tied into that.

[Penumbra]

Blue-Other way around...your art and personality have the ability to make you more popular, and the more popular you are the more "Financially" successful.

There is only one way to become a better artist:

Elwell.

[Diego]

I don't think it makes you a better artist but it creates more opportunities, more connections. And if you're a easy to deal with person and have a strong portfolio, why not work with you everytime?

[Nerahla]

I read something somewhere, I believe maybe David Brin's blog? Anyway, it was about our love affair with outgoing people as opposed to introverted people. Like one is superior over the other.

Actually it wasn't David Brin's blog, it was just some guy's. Anyway.

There are probably some deeply cultural anthropologic questions here - but it really all falls down to some basic stuff. People who like people and get along with people are just going to have more luck with success -- and people who are able to make the people around them feel comfortable and possibly, a little superior - well that's just the right way to manipulate the situation so you don't seem a personal threat. Women do this all the time by acting dumb around guys to get the guys to not feel so threatened.

I'm not advocating any of these behaviors - I'm just saying it works.

[Jabo]

I fail to understand how popularity makes me a better artist. And really, that should be all that matters.

Good luck :)

[wassermelone]

I fail to understand how popularity makes me a better artist. And really, that should be all that matters.

When it comes time to actually make money from your art, you might suddenly understand.

[Jabo]

Blue: A little example of how popularity can aid you in earning money is the re-design of the german Federal Employment Office some years ago. Those kind of commissions are usually given to the most popular graphic design agencies available. So, this is their old logo, compared to the new, € 30.000 worth one:

http://www.quergedacht.de/images/ba-logo1.gif

The rest of the budget, € 70.000, was used to re-design the corporate colors. You tell me another time that popularity doesn't make you a better artist/designer.

[wassermelone]

You tell me another time that popularity doesn't make you a better artist/designer.

Well, he is right in that popularity doesn't make you a better artist.

Semantics, yes. Popularity can make you a more successful (career wise), but it won't physically make you a better artist.

[Jabo]

That was sarcasm. Sorry, forgot the smiley.

[DanielC]

Uberly depressing...
Following romance, (real) hard work is always recognised.

[Blue]

When it comes time to actually make money from your art, you might suddenly understand.

That depends on what kind of artist you are.

[Rist]

For me personally I do not know whether I will make art just to get rid of it, replaced with money. Really what is worth more, something that you have CREATED and put all your skills into, or a few digits installed into your bank account?

I realise money is a huge thing these days, and always was, I am not such a hippy to not realise this. Why not work in a creative field that has a salary and just do fine art/illustration as a hobby and keep the work for yourself?

This is my view at present and I have no doubt it will change the older I get.

[Stephen Mason]

My opinion,

Are we talking about success or popularity? For me there is a massive difference and they have been kind of blured together in allot of peoples statements.

What is success? an event that accomplishes its intended purpose. So its all about the goals you are setting yourself. I dont want to be as popular as van gogh but i would love to be able to paint in a simmilar fasion. If i was able to paint like him and no one appreciated my work, I would not feel like i have not been successfull.

If you have popularity in mind when working there is a posibility that you will bastardise it. It wont be you, it will be what you think people think of you. If you try to be popular and fit into the current trend you will never make a new one. Do it for you before you do it for anyone else, :)

mwahhhh x lol

[maxetormer]

Success dictates popularity and popularity dictates success.

It's an art loop thats self sufficient as long as your producing decent work and your not an asshole.

But the question is, exactly what constitutes decent work?

also on a related matter, the annoying thing is, that hard work is not
directly related to success in every occasion, that is what
screwed Van Gogh, and that is what can screw a percentage
of good hard working talented artists ;) the randomness of the
universe is democratic to the extreme when it comes to
granting or denying certain things ;)

I guess Mike Corriero's opinion is the one that is more in tune with me,
you cannot underestimate the importance of popularity and being
liked by a percentage of the industries big wigs, is what you can
draw mixed with what the ppl is willing to buy, or beein convinced to buy,
of course if you have a very high set of skills, the chances that you will
adapt to be able to meet what the market demands might be better,
but, even then, it does not guarantees that you will succeed,
theres ppl that only can draw in a very limited style but even so, that
limited style is well accepted by the right groups to make it hip,
and so it magically sells like pan cakes :P

Life and its inescapable randomness or chaos is something that is
as real as say... gravity, its cruel according to us but according to
the rest of nature is just as cruel as a lion eating a hard working
Antilope.

[Saturns Gate]

Just Draw, ask questions later...

[koppa]

I'm not sure if this only applies to NZ but supposedly only one in one thousand "artists" actually make a living out of it. Thems great odds.

theres only a thousand people in NZ isnt there? you've done well for yourself bro :P ;)

[NoSeRider]

Hey, if you guys weren't attention ho's, then you wouldn't be wearing pirate costumes and mohawks......and gas masks and bunny suits.

Mere fact that I post makes me an attention ho. Artists are attention ho's, and that would indicate that poplularity supports their addiction, having attention to their message...their art.

All I asked was, 'How Much' does popularity play into being an artist.

Well, how much?

[Jabo]

23.5293 %

On a good day.

[maxetormer]

That NoSeRider is easy to answer, the god of chaos decides,
its different in every occasion, theres not formula to get popular
and there no warranty that been so will cause one to be better
off, chaos rules much of that equation.

[squidmonk3j]

Noserider....your question is either terribly phrased, or just plain dumb.

[NoSeRider]

Ok, what does popularity have to do with art?

Is it about merit or being a sycophant?

Do you do or do you sell?....and in which quantity?

You want me to be blunt then I'll be blunt.

Come on. You guys know what I'm talking about. Quit playing with semantics.
Get to the point.

I'm aware that Art Center College of Design actually teaches you about selling and promoting yourself.
So, I don't think these questions are all that dumb.......well, you guys are paying a $100,000 for dumb questions.

[alesoun]

So, you're not actually asking about popularity; you're asking if marketing yourself as an artist is important.

Of course it isn't.... it's perfectly fine being the best artist alive if nobody knows about you because you don't want to put your work out there in case you're not "popular",- as long as you have another source of income or don't mind living in a cardboard box.

If, on the other hand, you want a slice of the market (you want to sell your paintings/drawings/family silverware/second -hand shoes) you need to let people know that you exist. If they don't know you're there, they won't know which door to beat a path to, will they?

As to the rest,- you can only get people to buy something that doesn't appeal to them once. A friend of mine who made the worst fudge ever found that out the hard way. Eventually his travelling costs to find outlets that hadn't tried his product outweighed the profits.

Does that answer your question?

[Digital_Blacksmith]

Well, if you look a my cousin, Robert White, has paintings in the white house, has celebrity commisions, and he is still alive and well. Why? Because he put himself out there and made himself popular early on in his career. To be successful in art, you do have to make yourself known, otherwise people wont know you, and thus, wont hire you. Take movies for example. What is the most successful movies around? The ones that have the biggest and most popular names attached to it. The same is with art. So if you think you can do art and be successful without people knowing much about you, then you got alot of learning to do, unless you just sell to close friends and family for outrageous prices.

[Elwell]

Is it about merit or being a sycophant?
This is the fundamental flaw in your thinking. You've set up a false dichotomy.

[squidmonk3j]

You might as well ask: What does popularity have to do with being a fisherman?

...not trying to be a an asshole, but it i get the feeling you haven't really thought this through well enough to formulate an actual problem.

see, these are the actual answers to the two(?) questions i'm able to distill from your posts:

if you want to be a popular artist, being popular is important.
if you want your art to be popular, making popular art is important.

[Mike Corriero]

The funny thing about this topic is that in any respect, most artist that are "known" are popular and have become successful due to their popularity.

Popularity and Success as a "working" artist go hand in hand and there's really no point in discussing one without the other. If you think about certain big names in this industry, you know who they are because their work was well received by a majority of the public and they were capable of becoming well known because of their success.

Does this mean you can't be a great artist without being popular? No, you can paint just for the enjoyment and pleasure for yourself.
Does it mean you can't be successful without being popular? No, you can be successful and every person out there who knows who you are can hate you and your work so long as companies want to hire you for your skills. If you're not popular with that crowd (the companies and clients), well then you're screwed.

[Illusionist]

my small input:

inversely proportionate to skill level.
if you have skill but unknown you can still earn a living.
if you have no skill then you need to be popular to earn a living.

inspired by the post about a guy claiming himself the 'greatest artist that ever lived' with student quality works but raking money in =.=