Anybody had to deal with "these types" of people?

[Jason Windsor]

So I'm not motivated to draw or paint lately or 3D model anything because of the pretensious artists. The people trying to make statements with gallery work, non commercial stuff or non pop stuff. Has anyone of these hippy or self important artists told any of you that your not making art because your designing video games or comic book or sci-fi art or god knows what else?

Are they wrong? I'd like to think so, so I can get on with my work towards getting a game design job. Have people called your art low brow or nerd art? Someone tell me how to deal with these world views.

Also I feel internal conflict on this subject because I listen to music the likes of Radiohead, Death Cab for Cutie, The Shins, The Cure, The Smiths, Sigur Ros and Iron and Wine and The Beattles, Miles Davis, Brahms etc... Why did I bring this up you might wonder? Well I think indie rock/artistic intelligent music is art and Lincoln Park and Jessica Simpson is not. So it makes me wonder if classical fine art and commercial art are causing me to be at odds because I am confused because I may have a double standard when it comes down to music and art. Is the art on this page, that I love by the way as intelligent as a Radiohead album or a joke like a Match Box 20 ablum?

[aesir]

does it matter if its fine art or not? Personally, I only really think of myself as a craftsman when Im making assets for games or films.

[PerinGalitte]

Well for one, not everyone thinks that. Of course everyone deals with this kind of idiocy. And a lot of people happen to share your tastes, ideas and whatnot.

There's prejudice and ignorance throughout the world. The way to approach it is to just do what you want, like what you want and who cares if you're not conforming to the mainstream? Hell, at the end of the day it's just about saying to yourself, "Screw them." But remember, never close your mind to other possibilties and views. Balance is key.

[Costau D]

The funny thing is he would be conforming to people who think they are not conforming...

I love bathing in Irony, and pissing down the drain

[Ilaekae]

Point: The world is full of pretentious assholes. Get used to it.

Point: What the fuck do you care what these assholes think about YOUR life direction and goals? Do you owe them money or something? Are they paying for your schooling?

Point: Who the fuck is Jessica Simpson and why should I care about her? I listen to Dylan, Motorhead, AC/DC, McKennett, the Guthries and Bach. Does that make me a completely confused moron? And why should you care what I listen to? I sure as hell don't care what you listen to, as long as you don't live upstairs and blast your damn speakers at 30,000 decibels through my floor boards.

Point: Do you understand the difference between "art" and the "crafts" required to create it, no matter what it is? If you do, take a look at your own work and look at your idiot peers' work to see which of you are ahead in that area. If you're lacking, do something about it. If it's your idiot peers that suck, tell 'em so, in great detail...preferably at a crowded place where their much-flaunted genius is hung...loudly...with lots of big fuckin' words (look 'em up...do i look like your maid?)

Point: Do not--DO NOT--use the word "hippy" to describe the assholes you don't like. Do it again and I will rip your fuckin' lungs out. You obviously don't know what that word means, and you have no right to denigrate it or the people who created it.


Did I miss anything? If I did, please let me know here... :yayca: :P

[Carl Dobsky]

Yeah. What Ilaekae said.

Motorhead is fucking cool as shit.

[Jasonwclark]

Hippie is an interesting term, here's a brief rundown of its origins (courtesy of wikipedia.)

According to lexicographer Jesse Sheidlower, the principal American editor of the Oxford English Dictionary, the terms hipster and hippie derive from the word hip, whose origins remain unknown. The words "hip" and "hep" first surfaced around the beginning of the 20th century and spread quickly, making their first appearance in the Oxford English Dictionary in 1904. At the time, the words were used to mean "aware" and "in the know."

During the jive era of the late 1930s and early 1940s, African-Americans began to use the term hip to mean "sophisticated, fashionable and fully up-to-date". The term hipster was coined by Harry Gibson in 1940, and was used during the 1940s and 1950s to describe jazz performers. The word evolved to describe Bohemian counterculture. Like the word hipster, the word hippie is jazz slang from the 1940s, and one of the first recorded usages of the word hippie was in a radio show on November 13, 1945, in which Stan Kenton called Harry Gibson "Hippie". This use was likely playing off Gibson's nickname, "Harry the Hipster."

In Greenwich Village, New York City, young counterculture advocates were named hips because they were considered "in the know" or "cool", as opposed to being square. Reminiscing about late 1940s Harlem in his 1964 autobiography, Malcolm X referred to the word hippy as a term African Americans used to describe a specific type of white man who "acted more Negro than Negroes." In a 1961 essay, Kenneth Rexroth used the term to refer to young people participating in African American or Beatnik nightlife. In 1963, the Orlons, an African-American singing group from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania released the soul dance song "South Street", which included the lyrics "Where do all the hippies meet? South Street, South Street...The hippest street in town". Some transcriptions read "Where do all the hippist (sic) meet?" Nevertheless, since many heard it as "hippies", that use was promoted. "The Hippies" was also the name of a mixed African American and white soul singing group on the Orlons' record label, Cameo-Parkway. A hip person, a hipster, or a hippie, then, is someone who is aware of the latest developments or trends, as in "I'm hip to that." It was also often used as a verb in the early days, such as in the phrase, "I'm hipping you, man," which meant, "I'm making you wise."

Pejorative-
To the late 1950s/early 1960s Beat Generation, the flood of mid-1960s youths adopting beatnik sensibilities appeared as a cheap, mass-produced imitation. By Beat Generation standards, these newcomers were not cool enough to be considered hip, so they used the term hippie with disdain. American conservatives of the period used the term hippie as an insult toward young adults whom they considered unpatriotic, uninformed, and naive.

Also to the OP- Just remember, for everyone one person who snubs you for drawing comics or designing video games, there are probably five kids who'll think you're a living god for it. So keep doing what you like to do, try to get paid for it if you can, and let the art history students of 100-years-from-now figure the rest out.

[Jason Windsor]

Thanks for the advice guys, very helpful but damn you guys would defend your opinions with your fists if you had to.

[Jason Windsor]

I guess to simplify my question: What's the point of doing something if nobody respects it? Find people who do? What if by saying fuck everybody else your left with nobody?

[Elwell]

Thanks for the advice guys, very helpful but damn you guys would defend your opinions with your fists if you had to.
That's the name of the game...

[MyOrangeHat]

I guess to simplify my question: What's the point of doing something if nobody respects it?

Uhh...because you love doing it? If you don't love it unless people worship you for doing it, then you don't love art. You love the attention. Just my .02

[euskadi]

Who are they to decide what is "art" and what is not "art" and who are you to decide what is "intelligent music" and what is not "intelligent music"?

I'd like to see their artwork too...

[Grief]

"Anybody had to deal with "these types" of people?"
i'm just glad the whole post wasn't: "Them Gays"

so uhh... what the correct term for a white guy with in his mid-twenties to late-thirties with greasy long hair (possibly in dreadlocks*) who wears flannel and cargo pants and listens to shitty 'classic rock' music made three decades before he was born, smokes pot, has man-tits and speaks bullshit philosophy about conspiracy theories and lives in his parents basement and thinks he's awesome because he can quote john lennon and family guy all in one sentence?

because i hate that guy.... and his 'i dont shower' disgusting girlfriend.

*listen carefully as i lay down the law of the universe: unless youre black or the Predator, you can't have dreadlocks. sorry it's off limites, go wash your hair you gross fucking pothead.

and thus concludes another award winning post.

[kingshaj]

the internet was invented by Berkeley hippies

[Farvus]

They can be right but I would answer just like aesir. I don't need to be artist at all and it's fine for me. Instead I would call myself something like craftsman, designer, worldmaker, storyteller.

What's the point of doing something if nobody respects it?

There is no reason to gain acceptation from these people. You just love what you do (or not). Besides, if it's good, it's going to be respected by people from game industry and those who play games.

[Hyoscine]

So I'm not motivated to draw or paint lately or 3D model anything because of the pretensious artists. The people trying to make statements with gallery work, non commercial stuff or non pop stuff.
I believe all art is about making statements, I've never sold anything of my stuff, and it certainly isn't popular. I feel like I owe you an apology.

Also I feel internal conflict on this subject because I listen to music the likes of Radiohead, Death Cab for Cutie, The Shins, The Cure, The Smiths, Sigur Ros and Iron and Wine and The Beattles, Miles Davis, Brahms etc...
I'm not just saying this because were online and I can rude without repercussions, but really, you need to grow up a little. It's great that there's music that really speaks to you or whatever, but what is it that you want to convey? It reads like you're super-focused on other people's work and opinions; try to let some actual life experience flavour your work.

[kev ferrara]

Jason, life is home-made. You build it like you build a treehouse, nailing up one board at a time with your own two hands. If somebody isn't helping you build the treehouse you want to live in, or filling you with doubt about the treehouse you want to build... fuck em, kick em out of the treehouse. Watch them fall. They're useless to you.

When you meet somebody who thinks their work is the tops and your work is mere illustration, here's some fun responses designed to directly attack their Dogma. You don't have to believe any of this, but it is important to attack dogma. So you can say "you can't draw can you? Why are you pretending to be an artist when you can't draw." No matter what they say keep coming back to "Are you too lazy to draw? Your style of art is for people who can't draw and they will say anything to legitimize it. So I'm not really interested in what you are saying, but I can see with my own eyes that you can't draw." Or "Modern art was an attempt to allow people who can't draw to be called artists, well that attempt is over. And it failed." If they get onto "my work is free", say, "are you free to draw like Vermeer tomorrow? That's true freedom in art. It requires training and hard work, not pretentious verbal bullshit in a catalog of decorations."

Anyhow, if you can keep your wits you can turn the entire room against you.

Kingshaj, Darpa invented the internet... Defense advanced research projects... the military.

Hippies are beautiful people.

And so is Darpa... http://www.docinthemachine.com/2006/12/21/darpamedtech/

Just my opinion of course.

[Farvus]

Hehe. I agree. True freedom in art is when you can one day paint like Vermeer, other day you decide to focus on light and paint like Monet and third day you get bored of that and turn those colorful marks into circles to make geometric compositions....

EDIT ... but on fourth day you find you that you can create interesting art by painting realistic figures inside those circles so you dig out your oil paints covered with dust and do some studies from life....

EDIT2 ... And while doing studies from life you find out that you can paint with colorful dots so next day you try to follow the path of Georges Seurat...

EDIT3 ... On sixth day you figure out you can paint with tiny hair sized stripes instead of dots. You give them direction according to knowledge you got from painting like Vermeer and your art turns into flow of paint that models the form. On Saturday you give yourself break and on Monday you go back to point one. You figure out that you could paint whole bunch od those stripes with single stroke of big brush and it's like Vermeer again. (however what changed since your previous week is that now your figures are placed inside realisticly painted perfect circles ;) )

[Cepro]

Have people called your art low brow or nerd art?

Sorry, I don't live in the US, but I thought "low brow" had actually become a recognized fine art genre? At least it sounded to me like it did. Didn't Shawn Barber exhibit at a low brow exhibition? I remember seeing a video of it. Or is he not a recognized painter?
Personally I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be recognized.

Also what is nerd Art? Never heard of it before.

[JulesVerne]

People take the term art for granted, as if everything made within certain parameters falls into it. There's such a thing as a narrow view of it, but ultimately it's left for everyone to devise for themselves what it means. I'm a fan of radiohead as well, but would be cautious of calling all of their music "art"-- it's more along the lines of intelligent pop-rock, however poetic.

People should have more humility. Must you say, I'm going off to work to create art, I'm going to express my view of existence and the cosmos however limited within these game assets, which must be done by friday. Why not, "I'm going off to work to use my imagination and creativity to help create a game that will bring joy to certain people?"

[kev ferrara]

Why is pop a bad word? Norman Rockwell was popular, does that make it not art? The Beatles were popular. Gershwin was popular. Rachmaninoff was popular. Pop-rock is art, pure and simple. Whether its Radiohead or Britney Spears or Motorhead.

When people express themselves, no matter what the result, how its commercialized, how supposed pure, derivate, original, political, fantasy-oriented, popular, unpopular, worldly, insular... its all still expression.

This notion of high versus low art, it seems to me, was caused by the ability of certain artists to make a living working for corporations, taking assignments from those corporations, rather from their own whimsy. This translates into jealousy and resentment among the unemployed and struggling, which translates into superficial standards for superiority and self-righteousness (café-written manifestos). And jealousy, resentment and self-righteousness is how political parties gain adherents. And politics is bullshit designed to divide people. Art is here to unify.

So all this art versus non-art discussion is based on jealousy. Its all art, end of story.

Unless you want to draw me a diagram that explains why NC Wyeth wasn't making art or Brian Wilson wasn't making art.

kev

[JulesVerne]

So all this art versus non-art discussion is based on jealousy. Its all art, end of story.

I'll let you handle the "sex is art" nutjobs then, and everyone else who thinks they're Duchamp, for starters. Saying it's all about jealousy is narrow, how about people that don't want what is sacred brought down to vulgar and narrow self-serving purposes.

When people express themselves, no matter what the result, how its commercialized, how supposed pure, derivate, original, political, fantasy-oriented, popular, unpopular, worldly, insular... its all still expression.

Yes, EXPRESSION, that's the whole thing right there! ME, ME, ME, I, I, I! Excuse me while I go express the unique torment of my existence by buying a gun. If I do barrel rolls while shooting is it considered a performance art?

[Ilaekae]

I'm sorry...I can no longer participate in this discussion. I will need all my time to paint little 1/8" squares of various colors on frosted glass in an attempt to cure cancer and bring world peace.

[kev ferrara]

JulesVerne...

I am saying that the distinctions you are drawing about radiohead and pop-rock, which are applicable more widely than the music realm, are nonsense.

Since the word art has been annhilated a thousand ways to sunday... the only road forward is to make the art you believe in and promote it and sell it as art. Over time, if enough people make what you consider good art and sell it, the word art will mean what you want it to mean.

What is sacred? What does that mean? If you want what is sacred to you to be advocated, *make* what is sacred to you and sell it and promote it. Encourage others to do the same. That is the way the word "art" will come to mean what you want it to mean.

We make the world. Complaints are worth the paper they're printed on.

kev

[kingshaj]

as to the OP,
Jason,
art should be something you do for the love...if not it will show.
the hard thing yu'll learn is that accolades mean less....props..respect and compliments adoration ...do nothing for the artist...he/she knows for all that's worth, for all the blue ribbons....are irrelevant...the artist is thinking of the next hurdle.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEVers,
"Darpa invented the internet... Defense advanced research projects... the military. "

untrue: they owned lbl in Berkeley ca ( particle research -physics= hippies
beutifull ones...too) this lab and the other major cyclotron research facilities
needed a way to share data as close to real time.

they developed a protocol that was the internet.
but as LBL is a govt owned facility ...this technology was immediately grabbed up
by the D.O.D (as it was technically their intellectual property and govt, and military uses were clear.

enter darpa: how do owe use this thing and for what?"

history always has a prequel.
beautiful bearded be-sandled physicists and Frisbee flippin' computer scientists ..get their toys taken by the bigger kids


proud son of hippies!


---

[kev ferrara]

Well, K-shaj, we may be just talking semantics here...

I realize it is people that build the institutions and not the reverse. But it is the entity that pays the bills. If a bearded guy is working in a Darpa-owned lab, he is working for Darpa.

Do hippies work for Darpa during Vietnam?

And does it matter?

Unless you show me some solid evidence to the contrary, I would not necessarily call the particular scientists in question "hippies" just because they worked in Berkeley. Especially a Darpa-owned lab.

But I'm willing to be proven wrong! :)

Anyway,
kev

[kingshaj]

i have specific proof
and they'll tell ya too.

who do yu think rioting college students study?...,they werent ALL poets.
but yoou are right its a hard definition but these same guys demonstrated, protested, considered themselves
counter culture and walked the walk...also were passionate about science. Personly i love that those qualities are often related.

LBL is a civilian entity....relying on govt funding...
its in part, where they string theorists and quantum dudes come from....the search for knowledge and how the world is made is a very hippy thing.....darpa wasn't born as of yet,..nor did it ever own the facilty
its merely the case that the DOD has a good eye on anything relating to the atomic.


and if you had a passion for particle physics...or even looking for extraterrestrials. As is the case to this very day.
your work will most likely be entirely funded by the govt....and there are tons of hippies in the sciences...who's work is routinely co-opted by the govt.


it was a fluke ...the internet was ...merely made as a means for civilian research scientists to share test data.
about subatomic behaviors....and all of academia got excited and wanted in.

watch out string theorist....hide yer notes.
not patent law or intellectual property is bigger than your govt.


sorry for derailing here:(

[poisonedsodapop]

I guess to simplify my question: What's the point of doing something if nobody respects it?

That's not something you should ask. If you love something, do it. Don't question your choice. That's like saying "I shouldn't be a stripper because nobody respects it." A lot of people look down on strippers, even though they make good money doing something not everyone can do. I mean there is a place for everyone and everything.

And as for music, your opinion is your opinion. I listen to whatever I want to. I'm not a one genre type of person. I find claiming you like a genre is not the best thing to say cause then people start saying "hey do you know this person" and it really just ends up annoying me.

Oh and forgive my rant of nonsense. Nonsense is pretty much the only language I speak.

[paramnesia]

Hopefully I won't insult anyone, but a friend put it this way, "There are craftsmen and artists." You can be one or the other or both. They aren't always inclusive or exclusive, in my opinion. For example, if someone does a wonderfully photorealistic building, I call it craftmanship. It takes skill, but it lacks that extra something that moves me beyond the respect for their abilities. Art for me touches me somehow more, but neither should be looked down upon. But that's just how I define it.

[kev ferrara]

i have specific proof.

who do yu think rioting college students study?...,they werent ALL poets.

No, they could be accountants, poli-sci, liberal arts, law, I don't know...

darpa wasn't born as of yet,..nor did it ever own the facilty
its merely the case that the DOD has a good eye on anything relating to the atomic.

Yeah, dunno. Looks like Darpa was born in 1958 as ARPA... just a name change in 1972 (source: wiki).. I'd have to get some more thorough reading material in my paws to really get a clear sense of who did what, who owned what, what were their orders, etc.

and there are tons of hippies in the sciences...who's work is routinely co-opted by the govt.

Well, jeez, I do know a bunch of scientists, but I wouldn't call them hippies. I guess "Hippy" is such a subjective word. I tend to think of Woodstock as the bellweather. But my High School A.P. Chem teacher went there, yet from old pix he looked as clean cut in 69 as when I was in his class.

K-shaj, you say you have specific proof... more specific than you've written here? Do you know somebody who knew somebody?

kev

[kingshaj]

No, they could be accountants, poli-sci, liberal arts, law, I don't know...



Yeah, dunno. Looks like Darpa was born in 1958 as ARPA... just a name change in 1972 (source: wiki).. I'd have to get some more thorough reading material in my paws to really get a clear sense of who did what, who owned what, what were their orders, etc.



Well, jeez, I do know a bunch of scientists, but I wouldn't call them hippies. I guess "Hippy" is such a subjective word. I tend to think of Woodstock as the bellweather. But my High School A.P. Chem teacher went there, yet from old pix he looked as clean cut in 69 as when I was in his class.

K-shaj, you say you have specific proof... more specific than you've written here? Do you know somebody who knew somebody?
kev

yes
i know a few of the original crew...at LBL.... somewhere there are pix of me drooling on most of them as a 3 year old. Eye-balling their ubiquitous jade jewelry and Hercules bracelets....lol...or the brand new light pen!

basically this group morfed rativ and fortran into a packet delivery system and developed the code, admittedly cannibalizing C shamelessly, because to them it was merely a means to further their particle research. this enabled a switching protocol now used in TCP/IP and was the first time multiple computers networking over the phone (or any other remote means) was really happening.... truly networked.

i remeber the kick i got at "I.M.ing" my father in '76 or so. amber blinking cursor and all...very "war games"

ARPA had something else... perhaps a precursor. but not a net....a one to one remote link using a different language.

DARPA was born in 72 the day after he net was invented...oddly adding the term DEFENSE at the beginning of the acronym. and a new mission statement. in addition to co-opting all the above.

[Weeda]

I didn't actually read all the posts so I apologize if I'm saying something off track.

I just wanted to ask the topic creator: Are you in high school yet? Because I'm a senior in highschool and I think I know exactly what you mean. (except for your taste in music. You lost me there.) These past few years I've decided that I hate "artists" because of the "artists" that I know from school. Luckily for me, as I've heard many times on this site, highschool does not represent real life.

[rapxic]

one thing i've learnt people will accept art if it is greatly done rather than appreciate something that looks half done , people just love perfection. if you love your art , people will love your art too

[Max Challie]

the internet was invented by Berkeley hippies

The Internet was built by hackers (http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#what_is).

[CatConvention]

I'm not really into commercial/videogame/etc art.
I really love self expressive art that doesn't have to be made to be someone elses idea.

But I have no problem with people that do make commercial work for videogames , books, movies. and all that jazz.

Just deal with it the same way you deal with someone that doesn't like your work. Ignore it!

[Duq]

I think you shouldnt try to name the guy, or company that invented the internet. Alot of universities and people contributed to the birth of the internet.

What you can name is the day the internet was born, and by whom that birth was supervised. 1 jan 1983, when the NCP in Arpanet was replaced by the TCP/IP, wich was done by DARPA. Everything before that are just projects on their own that contributed to an open network.

[Crane]

1st: If the world worried about getting everyones approval for something then we'd still be in the stone age, cause sure as hell someone out there ain't gonna like what you do, or what you believe in.

2nd: Don't put linkin park in with jessica simpson for fuck sake, and if your gonna voice your distaste about them, at least get the name right. beside, linkin park is a hugely artistic band, and for this reason everytime i hear them, i want create art, and i couldn't care less who likes it and who doesn't.

and its the opposite with me, i really hate indie music, and most of the stupid indie motherfucks that i have to deal with (thats not putting all indie people in the same bowl, just the ones i know and find neck breaking annoying, but these people general turn out the be assholes no matter what they are)

sorry for the rant.
hard love to all

[kev ferrara]

DARPA was born in 72 the day after he net was invented...oddly adding the term DEFENSE at the beginning of the acronym. and a new mission statement. in addition to co-opting all the above.

Literally the day after?

This is very interesting. Reminds me of that old movie "colossus" about the computer network that went online. Do you have a source on this?

So the movie is based on a 1966 book. From wiki: Colossus: The Forbin Project is a science fiction film based upon the 1966 novel Colossus, by Dennis Feltham Jones, about the massive, eponymous American defense computer becoming sentient and deciding to assume control of the world. Although unsuccessful when released, it is well respected by science fiction aficionados and critics.



(including James Cameron, I guess...)

And of course Dr. Strangelove had a Doomsday device that networked all the silos in the country.

It does seem that for these kinds of ideas to have filtered out into pop culture, that more than just one lab was working on the idea and for quite some time.

Anyway,
kev

[kev ferrara]

More wiki: Sputnik spurred the United States to create the Advanced Research Projects Agency, known as ARPA, in February 1958 to regain a technological lead. ARPA created the Information Processing Technology Office (IPTO) to further the research of the Semi Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) program, which had networked country-wide radar systems together for the first time. J. C. R. Licklider was selected to head the IPTO, and saw universal networking as a potential unifying human revolution.

In 1957 he (Licklider) became a Vice President at BBN, where he bought the first production PDP-1 computer and conducted the first public demonstration of time-sharing.

The earliest ideas of a computer network intended to allow general communication between users of various computers were formulated by J.C.R. Licklider of Bolt, Beranek and Newman (BBN) in August 1962, in a series of memos discussing his "Intergalactic Computer Network" concept. These ideas contained almost everything that the Internet is today.

In October 1963, Licklider was appointed head of the Behavioral Sciences and Command and Control programs at ARPA (as it was then called), the United States Department of Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. He then convinced Ivan Sutherland and Bob Taylor that this was a very important concept, although he left ARPA before any actual work on his vision was performed.

ARPA and Poulsen continued to be interested in creating a computer communication network, in part to allow ARPA-sponsored researchers in various locations to use various computers which ARPA was providing, and in part to quickly make new software and other results widely available. Taylor had three different terminals in his office, connected to three different computers which ARPA was funding: one for the SDC Q-32 in Santa Monica, one for Project Genie at the University of California, Berkeley, and one for Multics at MIT. Taylor later recalled:

For each of these three terminals, I had three different sets of user commands. So if I was talking online with someone at S.D.C. and I wanted to talk to someone I knew at Berkeley or M.I.T. about this, I had to get up from the S.D.C. terminal, go over and log into the other terminal and get in touch with them.
I said, oh, man, it's obvious what to do: If you have these three terminals, there ought to be one terminal that goes anywhere you want to go. That idea is the ARPAnet. [1].

Roughly contemporaneously, a number of people had (mostly independently) worked out various aspects of what later became known as "packet switching"; the people who created the ARPANET would eventually draw on all these different sources.

At the IPTO, Licklider recruited Lawrence Roberts to head a project to implement a network, and Roberts based the technology on the work of Paul Baran, who had written an exhaustive study for the U.S. Air Force that recommended packet switching (as opposed to circuit switching) to make a network highly robust and survivable. After much work, the first two nodes of what would become the ARPANET were interconnected between UCLA and SRI International in Menlo Park, California, on October 29, 1969.

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

[tomwaits4noman]

"Anybody had to deal with "these types" of people?"
i'm just glad the whole post wasn't: "Them Gays"

so uhh... what the correct term for a white guy with in his mid-twenties to late-thirties with greasy long hair (possibly in dreadlocks*) who wears flannel and cargo pants and listens to shitty 'classic rock' music made three decades before he was born, smokes pot, has man-tits and speaks bullshit philosophy about conspiracy theories and lives in his parents basement and thinks he's awesome because he can quote john lennon and family guy all in one sentence?

because i hate that guy.... and his 'i dont shower' disgusting girlfriend.

*listen carefully as i lay down the law of the universe: unless youre black or the Predator, you can't have dreadlocks. sorry it's off limites, go wash your hair you gross fucking pothead.

and thus concludes another award winning post.


I believe.... Stoners

[steve kim]

i think it's a good sign that you are challenging your own biases and possible hypocrisy with the whole popular music vs indie analogy.

in my opinion, concept art as we know it is IS and possibly always will be nerdy, cheesy, adolescent, low, etc. to deny this is to have a tenuous grip on reality.

now, there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself. a lot of people do very good work in this arena and are quite happy. i personally love the stuff, even if it's not something i explicitly choose to do myself.

so the question is, is this okay with you? or do you want to look outside the world of concept art? instead of making it a me vs them situation. i think it only helps to have an open and curious mind as much as possible, even if in the end you find yourself quite satisfied with concept art thank you very much.

steve

[DavePalumbo]

I was going to write a "who cares what some jag says about your chosen profession" type response, but I've totally lost interest in favor of the internet history debate

[JJ McKool]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[Penumbra]

"What's the point of doing something if nobody respects it?"

The answer to this question is: There is no point to doing something if nobody respects it, but if at least YOU find value in what you do then somebody does respect it.
How many people have to approve to make you legitimate?



Who or what we call ourselves is totally meaningless. What we do is who we are.I meet people on a daily basis that claim the title , "Artist" , "Writer" , "Musician" but don't actually do anything but discuss their art.

[deliciouspeter]

"If you not being HATED ON, then you aint DOIN' SHIT."

-Jesus Christ

[kingshaj]

I was going to write a "who cares what some jag says about your chosen profession" type response, but I've totally lost interest in favor of the internet history debate

dave
kev

its really a "steve jobs vs bill gates vs xerox park"... sort of a tale
be skeptical of wiki in this regard.....please.
History is written by the winner, and wiki by the whiner....

personally i've exhausted my inside info in my first salvo....lol

but i stand by my premise that each of the steps and evolution of this use of the technology was made by folks in the civilian sector: I.E. HARD sciences or civilian computer sciences....and coopted by various govt agencies..who oddly had little real use for it ..other than elaborate internal uses.

The hippies or post hippies of you prefer...are humble folks with no interest in claiming they "invented the internet" many are heads of rd for the big pc companies ..those wierd companies like Agilent and you see adds and dont know what they actually do.

the real usefullness of this invention (as we all know , yawn) was seen as a way to communicate... share info to the masses....an alexandria of sorts...there was alot of excitement around this idea at company picnics. DECUS symposia shwag backs this up.

the military applications beyond logistical control/communications, seem, to me, to be negligible... although no im no military expert.

my conspiracy theory, is that DOD interest was in containment of this tech.....and they already owned it technically
foreseeing the threat it posed to authority....(and the self proclaimed hippies at these picnics were very animated about that exact point as well and saw in an us vs the man issue) and spoke about the fact that this new "Home computing" revolution would thwart any attempt for the army to keep a lid on this technology....ham radios and fuzz busters were used as examples..lol


so i doubt ive proven a damn thing here....lol
but humbly ask yallz to remember that Thomas Alva Edison (for example), was at the very least was the second person to invent the light-bulb. perhaps third.

but my initial statement was simply "hippies invented the internet"....and i stand by that. god bless em...im biased as they raised me....and even though i shave my head and wear adidas ...i am proud of my hippy DNA

people refer to the "greatest generation" as those called to fight in ww2... ("wars not make one great" yoda date unknown )
well without taking anything away from our grandpas ...my vote is for the hippies.

the only youth culture revolution i know of that was at-least espousing altruism.


sorry USarmy.strong/strong.did_i_mention_strong?.com...no love here

[Penumbra]

Here you go...

http://www.edbeardjr.com/handpaintedvsdigitalvideo.html