Gundersen Mentors in... something

[Gundersen]

Mentor: Gundersen
Mentees: Vibhas & Yinteck

Ok so you managed to trick me into teaching the tiny bit of knowledge I have. Hopefully it can end up as an art journey together rather then one man pointing where to go. So I want us to work fairly loos, trying this and that together and see where we end up. Don’t take what I teach for granted, listened to a lot of people and see what others do as well.

Well lets start off with some easy stuff. It’s the basic of an environment piece, so even if its fairly quick to do once you get the hang of it, its most important to understand it. We are going to work on composition now in the beginning I think. There are several steps here we will look at during the first weeks: perspective, repetition, scale… well ill think of more later J

You have already done some perspective studies, feel free to post them here if you want to. I want to keep working on perspective studies but instead of random chaos cubes we will go a bit more into detail.
I don’t want to post up to many examples quite yet, I want you to explore a bit first, and then I can rather use examples when I am explaining a bit more later. So here is the first assignment:

- In every piece add a man or woman for scale, doesn’t need to be more then a contour
- Add the same element several times for repetition. This will show scale in your image. (will maybe have to show you that one)
- DON’T detail anything almost, you can add stripes to a cube to show it’s the same one going backwards into the image or similar. But no detailing :P
- Don’t rush the images, you are not in a hurry. Plan them out and make sure they show what you want!


1. Make three images looking from above
2. Make three images looking upwards
3. Make three images on “street level” not looking up or down (is that one understandable? Basically it will cut of parts of your “cubes”)

There nine images id prefer you create with pencil and paper, take an A4 sheet of paper and divided it up like I have shown bellow in the attachment. I will also do all the assignments.

The deadline has been removed. As soon as you have all nine images in a way I like we move on ;) hehe

[Gundersen]

heres the way id prefer you to make the Perspective drawings, aka the 3 diffrent images on a a4 paper

[buchvecny]

just trial

[Gundersen]

As you can see on yours probably yourself its very distorted, If you want to use 2 point perspective and make it look more beliveable, you need to put the 3rd point FAR off teh canvas you have choosen, The longer away the more beliveable

Here are two examples of what i meant. Useing the same shape over again to create a composition. Try it out, see what you get. Try to make a foreground, midground and background element. To pull our eyes into the image

[buchvecny]

yea i figured in the meanwhile :) now i will just force myself to do it !

[Gundersen]

Come on guy+girl, you dont learn from sitting on your asses doing nothing ;)

Lets show stuff as soon as we do it. Keep updateing

[buchvecny]

I am really sorry for missing everything... one of craziest week this year.
O well now theres my perspectives, i drew only three out of nine i know :( i will make more when i return on Saturday. Hard critique please!

[Gundersen]

Nice to see an update Buch. Its ok to have a bussy week, dont be sorry for that. I am just here to push you :P hehe

I like your update, these are better then the perspectives you did before. Remember what i said about 3 point perspective. If you dont want it to look so distorted you have to put the 3rd point even farther away.
I would recomend you to look at your lineweight, your lines that goes into the VPs and the cubes have the same lineweight, this makes it slightly hard to see your cubes sometimes. Try to make the cubes lines a bit darker ;) If you already know alot about lineweight then you can try to add the darkest lines in front and the thinest in the back. To create the illusion of atmospheric perspective...

[yinteck]

Here is some of my assignment..:bashful: Hope is ok ..
Will finish other tomorrow.

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Nice to see some of your work. Your birdswiev are realy nice and seem correct. Some of the objects are "flying" but thats ok if its what you want them to look.
When it comes to the "looking upwards" images there are some mistakes you can look into. Unless everything, included the people are flying you should always place the "base" of the building below the horizon line. If you place it higher up it is flying. The second one where the man is standing outside the building cant be made like that. Cause if that man is standing on ground camera would be below ground level :)

[yinteck]

Thanks Gundersen. I will keep that in mind.:^^:

Here is another one. No that satisfied but dont mean i dont like it.. Just everything is simple. Dont know what to add to make it more interesting..
This always happen to me when it comes to building and perspective stuff....:nohope:

[Gundersen]

Nice updates here yintek. Dont worry about the complexety atm, it will come later when you get the grasp of the basic. Here is comments on the three images:
1. This one is as simple as this excersise should be. But the object you have used has no similarity, so its realy hard for the viewer to determin how far away things are and how big they are. Useing the same object over again create a rhythm in the image.

2. Here you are getting more complex, and its a realy good image to show whats happending on streeet level. Maybe make some of the buildings taller to create the feeling of a new york street. Also the point about repeating object here.

3. Ohh you are doing the flying objects again :) hehe. But you have added in a floor level there, which no makes sense. The man on the far right side seems to be to big for where he is standing. Minor mistakes like that will change the scale and look of your image.

[Gundersen]

Yinteck assignment 1:

[yinteck]

Here is one of the part 1 of the assignment. Happy with this 1 point.:steph:
Will do more tomorrow.

[Gundersen]

Looks realy nice yinteck. You have handled the one point perspective well here. It reads good as an interior space. no critts on this one. Look forward to see the next ones! :hugsmile:

[yinteck]

Ah... Finally done with this one. I feel nth special bout this one. Just another normal 2 point .:[

[yinteck]

Here is the 3 point perspective. I can see that there some odd block due to where i put the third point.

I have a question - If i want to put the third point way lower. Should i use another paper to join the paper that im' drawing? Cause i find that this is not so convenient. Do you use other technique to solve this problem ?:bashful:

Will do the second part soon.

Thanks :hugsmile:

[Gundersen]

Nice updates again Yinteck, you seem to be getting a good understanding of perspective.

- 2 point perspective (have attached a file to show what i mean): You need to remember that if you use the same element over again it needs to be smaller in the distance. Not only shorter, it also needs to be thinner. Atm the picture is a bit confusing since you have a shape in the front, and the shape is being repeated into the distance, but its not the same size as the front one .. :)
Appart from that your 2 point perspective dont have any mistakes as far as i can see.

- 3 point perspective: This one looks good, and its nice to see you have learned about the 3rd point. If its placed on the same paper it creates a big distortion. If you are useing A4 paper i would tape the paper to my desk and then just make an X on the desk somewhere. You can just rub it out afterwards. The reason for tapeing the paper to the desk is so you dont move the paper and get mistakes in the perspective.

(writeing a bit about perspective, hope it will answer some questions you have)

Perspective

Perspective is very important for environment design. It is the most basic thing of the drawing. Its very simple, but small mistakes can easily ruin your picture. Our eyes always see in three point perspective, that doesnt mean you need to draw in this.

1 point perspective: Often said by many people to be the "interior" perspective. That is in some sense correct. But its basicly just easier to draw then two point or three point perspective, thats why people do it.

2 point perspective: This is deffenatly the most used one. Unless you do a realy good three point perspective, this is the easiest one to do good. Feng Zhu is one of the artists that strongly use two point perspective when building up his images. What i like personaly about two point is that it dont look distorted, and its quicker to do when you work. You dont need to have a 3rd vp FAR off canvas.

3 point perspective: As i mentioned this is the perspective our eyes see in, and to be honoust i very rarely use this perspective. But if you are creating a massive canyon or some cliffs, this is a realy good perspective to create the feeling of large scale. So deffenatly practice this one, the more you can use it the better!

[Gundersen]

Buch: When are you posting your first assignment? The 9 perspective drawings.. As soon as your done ill give you your next assignment.

[buchvecny]

I have just arrived, so when i get a bit of sleep i will start! I cant be beaten by girl!! jk

[Gundersen]

He is a guy :) hahaha

[yinteck]

Assignment 1 -part 2
Traditional Painting 1
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/mystical-evening.jpg
I found this in http://www.voytek-art.com/oil-paintings.htm .This artist personal website. If you visit his website you'll notice most of his drawing (color and mood) is kinda like this- yellowish and down.

I like the piece because of the dramatic lighting used. In this piece i like the color the most then the detail. Besides that, I like the way how the artist uses light to pull our eye into the painting.

Nth much to say bout this one. 2 thumb up. :teeth:

Traditional Painting 2
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/babelnew.jpg

This is a meaningful piece. Found this in http://sunsite.utk.edu/FINS/DemocracyRightNow!/Fins-DRN-01.html.
This is drawn by Pieter Brugel the elder. Name - The 'Little' Tower of Babel.

According to what i read in the website , the tower was build during the 19th and 20th centuries due to the elite property owners tyranny. Is all about corruption, economic inquity, bloodiversity and so on.

What i like the most in this paining is the details. The texture and details given to each level of the building.

Besides that, the way the artist used of color which is the 2th thing that stand out the most. The redish and moody (down color) suit well with the situation of the people were living in. I also like how the artist illustrated
the activity of the people around the building. It help show how huge and massive the building is ( scale ).

If i'm not mistaken the artist used 3 point perspective to show the huge building. I'm a total beginner ,dun know should i have say this ( i mean the perspective is a bit off ?) And ya! the building is a bit slanting. I think the artist wanted to show a downfall of life in that time.

Contemporary image 1
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/desert_monolith_horizontal.jpg
From http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111068

Awesome digital painting. The thing that catches me is the color and the design of the environment. I dont know why the artist choose something pinkish to be the main color. ( i totally NEED so color studies :( ).

The composition of the images is good and balance.
Not sure what kind of perspective is the artist using. Two point i think..

Contemporary image 1
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/tree_bridge.jpg
Found this some where in concept art but i forgot where it is.

Definitely 3 point. I like the angle use and the composition. I also like the lighting of the image and the way the composition and the lighting above lead us to the focal point of the painting.


After some analysing thingy. I found that most traditional painting emphasize on some meaning behind the painting. Whereas digital show more design. Lastly most of the environment use human figure to show scale and size of the environment. Just my thought though...

Hope you understand my bad english

[yinteck]

Here r some painting...:S
I harder than i thought. Run out of time to correct some mistake i made - color, drawing.

I'll redo the drawing that is not finish. but with other image of course:} . This has to much detail, not ready for this now. I happy with the snow mountain pic, although there some mistake - need to push more on my observation more.

[Gundersen]

Try to look away from all the details. Start off with painting in the main colors. Block in all the shapes quickly. Dont bother to do all the small details that are not necesary. Try to make them simple :)

[yinteck]

Ok .. here are them. Found other easier ones to paint. Did my best in time given.:dead:

Well, in this assignment, the hardest thing is to really capture the color correctly. Sometimes i just spend to much time in this part. At the same time this is what i learn. Hard but quite fun. :bashful:

[Gundersen]

I will write up comments and critts on your entire first assignment later + a new assignment!

Great work so far!

[buchvecny]

Goddamn i just cant catch up :(, any tips to work faster? Im just cripple when it comes to my hands. Well there goes the birds view!

[Gundersen]

I have never asked you to work fast. But work hard. A big difference ;)
I want you to invest as much time as you think is nececary, This is your chance to steal as much knowledge you can from me, not that i have alot...

When you have posted up all perspective drawings i will comment on them

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Ill go through step by step on your assignment

Part 1 a:

One point perspective: A realy nice perspective, I can easily read it as an interior space. I also guess that the squares on the right side are windows. You will probably not use 1point perspective a lot, but its good to have some knowledge of it

Two point perspective: As I mentioned in last critt be careful when using the same element over again. If the shape is not correct made it makes your image look distorted. But it’s a good stab at perspective, and there don’t seem to be any lines going off into any crazy directions

Three point perspective: By placeing your 3rd point as close as you did, you almost get a fisheye effect on your image. I think the middle part of the drawing is the best, the shapes are not to distorted there and gives a feeling of tall buldings. Next time just remember to put the 3rd point farther away, it will make your image look a lot better. And if you nail a good 3 point perspective it will look very very good!

Part 1 b:

Traditional Image 1: This has a realy nice and warm feel. To me it almost reads as a forest fire. If you look at the people in the image, there is a lot of details in the nature around them, more then any other place in the image. This helps the painter to draw our eyes into that detail.

Traditional Image 2: To be honoust I am not sure if I like this image :P . There is a lot of details, and clearly the tower is the focal point in the image. The red part on the top draws my eyes in. It contrast the cold colors used in the rest of the image. Color contrast is very useful when you want to bring the viewer into the image.

Contemporary Image 1: What I like about this image is how the painter has used elements to bring our eyes to where he wants us to look. The “bridges” goes from every direction into the image. And if you start looking at the man, there are several elements that takes our eyes int othe image and around. There are some slight color contrast in the image. The image has a warmish pink color, but the windows or lights that comes from the buildings have a cold icy blue color

Contemporary Image 2: This image is from Turok. The first time I saw it I was realy impressed aswell. As you pointed out it’s a great three point perspective that gives us the feeling of being in this messy forest/jungle. I am not sure if the main focal point is on the man, or the skeleton hidden under the plant. I think the painter wanted us to see the man first, then move our eyes down to the skeleton. A Lovely picture indeed. Great use of color and light.

Part 2:

When it comes to these paintings they where more for fun, to relax a bit and practice your painting skills. They are not bad at all. But try to use a round hard brush set to opacity on pressure. This will sharpen up the edges. Block in the colors, and don’t worry to much about all the details. Good work, we will do more of this.


Good work on first assignment, will now write up the next one. Will be a two part assignment aswell!

[Gundersen]

Yinteck, here is your next assignment. If you have questions, ask here or on msn! :)

[buchvecny]

hey gundersen check the post i made earlier, i somehow managed to fail to upload the birds view :) by the way should i critique yinteck too or its your work?

[Gundersen]

hey gundersen check the post i made earlier, i somehow managed to fail to upload the birds view :) by the way should i critique yinteck too or its your work?

You dont need to critique any work, thats my job here :P

You have posted 6 perspective images so far, in total there should be 9 ;) When you post the last three ones i will write up critts for you and get you rolling on a new assignment

[-=grimjack=-]

I just found this project. I am going to start working on pieces. I will have something in a few days.

[Gundersen]

I just found this project. I am going to start working on pieces. I will have something in a few days.

Its not a project for anyone to join sorry. I have two people that I am mentoring and i am not takeing on anyone else atm. So please seek elsewhere for a mentor or "project" to join :)

[-=grimjack=-]

kewl, I understand.

[buchvecny]

Okay ill make them tomorrow, I cant wait to work digitally, thats the only thing which is pushing me futher

[Gundersen]

We all need to learn to crawl before we can walk

[yinteck]

This is the song im gonna use

BAND - SONG TITLE
Gazette - Chiruzu

I will post so sketches tomorrow, i hope i can get an idea and start the painting soon. Will have a lot of fun with this one.

[Gundersen]

Interesting song choice, realy look forward to see this one :) hehe

[yinteck]

:\ Here a the sketches and wip....
Almost finish but still need to touch up a bit. Tomorrow i think i can finish it and post it.

What do you think ? Any thing i should change before i finish it ??:)

[Gundersen]

I think it looks good. Those plants look a bit out of place ... Try to look into fixing them a bit

[Gundersen]

Buch are you still alive?

[yinteck]

Here it is. I have change the saturation of the tree and also fix the flying tree problem, hope is ok now.

If you want me to change something let me know.:bashful:

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Nice painting. Good study :)

Here is the next one (and remember perspective!! so place shadows and everything correctly)

[buchvecny]

uhm.....

[Gundersen]

Sorry didnt have time to write up critts for your first part yet, will do it later.

Here is your first personal assignment, Deadline: Tuesday 11

[yinteck]

Here is some sketches and the one that i want to work on. Ill work more on it.

Any idea ?:)

[Gundersen]

Looks like a nice sketch.

I am not very found of the building you have in there, everythign else is so organic, and the building and the pathway is so straight. And also make the pathway start where the man is, and run down and into the landscape, you dont need a building, unless its at the end of the pathway. And the path doesn need to be straight, make it curve around hills, and over rocks :P

Cheers, good work

[yinteck]

Hehe, i kinda change a bit of everything not many though. I change the path, i think it is better now..and also remove the building. Will do the painting and post WIP later. Tomorrow the finish one.

[yinteck]

Hi. here is an update, this time ill make it a bit cartoonish, hope is ok. Having fun with this one.
Still need to work on the foreground and backgroung .:yum:

[yinteck]

Well , here goes.

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Comic book style is ok, but it seems like we need to have a look at values and light in the next assignment.

I think its an interesting image you have gotten, full of lovely colors. Maybe a bit to much color ;) hehe. The pink sky area might stand out a bit to much, If the sky would be that pink/purple it would affect the foreground aswell. Also in your mind you need to know where the sun comes from. The mountains on the left side of the image shows that the sun comes from top right of your image. So ALL mountains need to have shadow on the same side :) hehe
Secondly its the path way you have made. The path that the person is standing on stops all of a sudden, and there is a path to the left of him that goes in many strange direction as it goes down the mountain :) I showed it with red lines.. Even if the track could go as you shown, its kind of confusing to look at.
So i did a quick paintover to see if i could show any of what i rabble on with... hope it shows a bit

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Ok for your next assignment we will study value. So we will work in B&W now for a while. To kick start it off i want to see your skills in value before i talk about it.

Make 5 thumb sketches of mountain landscapes in Black and White. And i want to see a pathway going through the mountains in every one. Takes as long time as you want. I will be bussy at uni this week, so wont have time before begining of next week to give good critts. But if you post up each one after you are done with it i will give quick critts.

Also feel free to try a more realistic style then comic style.

Sorry for being bussy at uni atm!

[buchvecny]

Well, there it goes! I feel pretty confident in one point, two point could be better and three point ended up so badly that i didnt want to annoy you. I want to ask you if i could get exception for three point and do it on computer. If i place the third point far up in my desk its incredible hard for me to do the lines correct and i end up with super inaccurate bunch of lines making no sense and if i do it easy way and place it on same paper, it gets all distorted

[buchvecny]

deleted lol

[Gundersen]

COLOR PICKER MY ASS!!!!!!! AHHHHHH

Never use color picker. If you do live drawing, can you go up to the person and "pick" color of his jacket and put on your drawings? No, color picking doesnt help anyone if you ask me. Learn to see the colors and mimic them. If you get stuck you can try to pick color to see how close you got!

Buchveny: The drawings you posted are not up to standard and they are over the deadline and missing one drawing. I cannot see any of the topics i gave you in the drawings. I give you one more week to do it again, and work properly on it this time! If you are not commited to develop yourself it wont work! So get your balls togheter and work!

[buchvecny]

could you explain me what does one point perspective of grandhall mean? :o

[Gundersen]

go to google, search for "Grand Hall" and go to "images", then you get alot of reference of what a grand hall is.

I want you to use simple shapes to illustrate the diffrent topics

[yinteck]

Here is one of the thumbnail sketches. I have a bit problem with the foreground:[ . Should i go really detail or this is ok ?

buchvecny - Thanks for the comment.

[Gundersen]

The detailing is good enough, but on the image it looks like the black is darker in the foreground ;)

[yinteck]

Ok , here r the other thumb , 2 more left. I think i can post them tomorrow.
I did a bit change about the first one ( foreground ) hope is better.
If u want me to change anything just let me know, glad to do.:hugsmile:

[yinteck]

Here is another, sorry cant finish both today...:dead: :S

[yinteck]

well here is the final one. In these thumbs i tend to focus on the detail, that the reason it take so long...

[Gundersen]

sorr for not replying for a while. I promise to reply up critts tomorow :)

[yinteck]

That ok. Ready for next assignment, if u think i can move on:hugsmile: :yayca:

[Gundersen]

Yinteck, first of all sorry for late reply. Iv been travelling a lot the past days, and started not one, but three different new jobs :P

Value study: Well I think we need to work more here. I think the last image is the best one of the ones you have done. The main problem is that you are using to bright colors on the front and often add to much detail in the background. If you want to perceive a good perspective in your drawings you need to nail the values correctly.
Below I have posted a paintover on two of your images. On the left side is the paintovers.

What I want you to start of with is to write an essay on about 1 word page. Describing to a person that don’t know about values in a painting what it is. Use as much sources as you can find, and write it out. I think this will help you in the process of understanding landscape paintings. It certainly helped me a lot. You can also include some images to show what you mean, and good examples. Feel free to post it when you got it ready.

We also need you to produce an image, So I want you to think about everything I have learned you so far, Perspective, values, color study… and create an image. I don’t want comic style this time, paint it as good as you can

Topic: First Snow

Btw I am still struggling with values sometimes.. :P

[vibhas_virwani]

hi , Buchvecny & yinteck !!! :)
i am vibhas virwani , i am an 18 years old guy ,from New Delhi , India and like you guys ,i would also like to learn as much as i can , so i'm going to join this class if its alright with you guys ... ?? :) have already talked to gundersen :)
please take the time to visit my sketchbook and feel free to criticise and comment as much as you want :) ...

i have never ever taken any sort of art classes before so i am looking forward to learning a lot here :) ...
i already took a shot at the very first assignment ...
here it is :) http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/assignment1.jpg
will wait for some criticism , before i can get the other six done ... :)
i have just started digital painting like 2-3 months back (with a mouse) and i just got a tablet a couple of days back :) ... till now i have ONLY been sketching traditionally ... mostly at the back of my school notebooks :P and that too mostly with a black pen :P ... and i have done a LOT of those ... never tried painting traditionally either , so when i started digital painting , that was like my first experience with colors ...
i have very weak basics ... and im really looking forward to learning them well :)
(even working with a pencil and a scale for this assignment seemed odd to me :P but ill have to get used to that , haha )
cheers !!!

[yinteck]

That great! hope to learn from you too as the class goes.

[Gundersen]

hei Vibhas. great to see you posting. Hope you will enjoy it and learn alot :)

I gave you some critts on msn regarding these pieces. They are realy nice perspective. But i pointed out i want you to add a person, and repeat the same object over again inwards in the image. To show understanding of scale and repetition in perspective :)

[yinteck]

Value
Value is one of the most important and least understood concepts in design. Value controls our visual experience. It helps determine our perception of form as we explore a picture. It helps us see or feel the space through the effects of perspective and the differences between the lighted and dark surfaces of three dimensional objects. If values are too similar, shapes will look flat, and seem closely connected in space; none will stand out from the others. If values are different, shapes will appear to separate in space and some will stand out from the others. This works whether the colors are just black, white and gray, or whether hues are involved. If a painting has a poor use of value within value range, color or line. It can ruin the whole painting. Value can also make something appear 3d on a 2d surface is done by a range in values. Dark to Light

The strongest contrast available in art is black to white. Strong contrast is useful for controlling attention. With or without color the designer must be aware of the value structure of a composition. The visibility, and hence the readability, of an image depends mostly on the careful use of values. Most paintings are readable in a black and white photograph.

When doing a environment painting, stuff that is further away look less saturated.

Measurement
If we want to measure the difference in light or dark necessary to recognize values with our eye, we use value scale or photographer’s grayscale. Which is 9 step or 11 step value scale. Each consists of light, mid value and dark. In natural light the effects are more complex.

Extra stuff that I found
Many books recommend that we squint to see the value structure of a painting or scene. This is handy for daylight and quick assessment of values, but it requires practice to learn. Actually, the most accurate way to judge the value structure of a painting is to look at it under very dim light, such as moonlight, when only the rod receptor cells (which cannot perceive color) are active. If you get up at night for some reason, use the opportunity to look at the value structure of your paintings! This will help you to use the "squint" method on the same paintings during the day, and from there to apply the "squint" to other objects in all kinds of light.

Reference: http://daphne.palomar.edu/design/value.html
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color11.html
http://char.txa.cornell.edu/language/element/color/color.htm

I will post the painting ASAP

[vibhas_virwani]

thank you yinteck ... that last post of yours helps a lot ... those links are also very useful :) . really appreciate your effort of posting that :)

[yinteck]

vibhas_virwani Thanks for your kind words, glad you find it useful.

Here are the painting i doing still in progress. Thought i should post and get some feed back

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: I havent read through your post yet, hopefully i will remember to do it later. But i wanted to do some quick critt on your work here. I cannot tell you to do like this or that, its up to you which way you prefere to work. But i would recomend you to go back to greyscale first when you paint. So you are sure the values correctly. Then you add colors on top of it setting the mode on the new layer to multiply or a similar mode. This will help you keep the values correctly. Atm its very hard to read your image. I want you to decide on a focal point and start detailing the focal point aswell. But first of all fix the values and make sure perspective is correct

[yinteck]

OK no problem, i'll work on black and white now. Here is another update, i hope is it clearer. For the foreground i'll work more on it.

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: Just to make you think about what you are doing, can you tell me the story for this image? :) Like where are we, is it another planet, what year... I just want you to have a story in your head. Cause atm i have never seen those mountains on earth.

Vibhas I know your bussy at the studio work, BUT post up soon :) hehe

Buchveny: Have you quit? Would like to see you here still

[yinteck]

Hmmm... the environment is in future, to be accurate is form another planet. For the detail i really did not think about that. Next time i will plan all this.
Well maybe ill start again, but this time ill do the story part as well, if there is no deadline.

[DAVEZILLA]

My name's David, and perspective drawings have always intrigued me, but I've never actually done any. Can I join in on these assignments?

Found my answer! I know you can't take me :)
I'll definitely be in the background doing the assignments though. They seem to be very interesting: and on a day when I can't seem to draw very well, I'll atleast wrap my mind around perspective.

[Gundersen]

Hmmm... the environment is in future, to be accurate is form another planet. For the detail i really did not think about that. Next time i will plan all this.
Well maybe ill start again, but this time ill do the story part as well, if there is no deadline.

No deadline, just push yourself

[vibhas_virwani]

gun !! almost there man ... just got rid of my exams man .... ill post up soon :)

[yinteck]

Ok, here is some sketches, will do more tomorrow.
Now at least i have a direction that i want to go. For this piece, the time present-day and related to magical stuff. This is what in my mind now.

[buchvecny]

Hello Gundersen,

I am sorry for this, but i decided to drop from your class. There are too many things going on and my other interests (philosophy,illustration,literature, singing and such) just stomped over my desire to learn environment.

It would be nice from you, if you let me lurk around tho and let me go through my extremely shallow learning curve.

Regards, Buchveny

[yinteck]

Here are more thumb sketches. I think i know which one that i want to work on now. Tomorrow ill do a final sketch of the selected one and bring it to digital.

Really sorry for the slow process in this assignment.

[yinteck]

Here is the final sketch. Will do digital tomorrow.

[yinteck]

Here is a WIP. Gunderson, i am using grayscale for this painting now, am i right ? or actually i should use RGB with black and white color.
I try to post some progress everyday.

[vibhas_virwani]

well here is another image from my first attempt ... (god i hate using the pencil $#@$#@).... i think other than maybe a few errors ... that i realised myself .. i might just be getting the hang of this.... will do another one soon :)
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/IMG-2.jpg

[vibhas_virwani]

hey thats actually turning out nice yinteck :) ... one question !!! is it supposed to be lighter shading when an object is further away than when it is closer ?? or is it the saturation ?? am i even right :P

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: It looks good. Now decided on a focal point in your image and use the brighest whites and darkes blacks there, this will draw our eyes where you want us to look. When you take the step over to colour, remember to look at images of snow. The shadeing of snow is often blue, purple or green. But for now keep building up details in the value painting, look at reference images and add in more details to your scene.

Vibhas_Virwani: These are looking good Vibhas, when you post 3 more we will go to a new assignment. A bit more tricky perspectives. But good work so far

And both of you can critt each other, no problemos! :)

[vibhas_virwani]

thanks gun !!! here is the next sheet :)
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/IMG_0001-2.jpg

[Gundersen]

Sorry for late reply here.

Vibhas these are nice, there are minor mistakes as the building goes into the distance, it should get smaller not bigger :) The hight is correct, but your building gets longer and longer. But it doesnt mather, you will learn this after many tries.

I know you have a bussy scheduel, so to not bore you to death with these assignments i want you to paint something for me. This is to see what level you are on when it comes to environmental painting. So the topic will be: The forest
Remember to think about perspective when you work on it. Also look at the other mentees work on perspective, values and so on

Go wild on it!

[vibhas_virwani]

thanks gun !! now i know what you mean .... i hadnt noticed that size-thing before ... ill make sure that ill be more careful from next time ... :)
and just so you know i have only made a total of like 5-7 digital paintings as yet !!! and never made an environment ever before ... but i am working on one for another project :) and its almost done :) so ill start on the forest right after that :)
although i was wondering if it would be ok if i could take just a little bit longer than usual , as even my exams are overhead .... and im pretty slow ...(as you know :p ) ... so just let me know :)
thanks
cheers !!!

[vibhas_virwani]

so here is the WIP of the forest :) LOTS and LOTS of scribbling :P
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/forest.jpg
also waiting for any criticism , so that i can continue working on this :)

[Gundersen]

Its a nice start as a first painting. But its a bit messy, I can see its a clearing inside a forest, but there is nothing "special" to look at. Your next step will be to decide on a focal point in your image, what do you want me to look at. Start detailing this focal point. Maybe you could add in a Broken bench in the clearing and a beam of sunlight comming down from the sky shinning on it. Or that might be a lame idea. But we need something to look at.

The image is also quite flat atm. You should look over your values. I know we havent talked about this yet, and we will work more on that in next assignment. But remember that things close to "camera" are normaly more darker then the things further away. Keeping this in mind will create a more realistic feel to your image.

But for now, bring in a focal point, an interesting object or similar. Something to attract me! :)

[vibhas_virwani]

kul ... so i try and add focal point and make it a bit less messy ...(sill blend those scribbles ;) ) ... well i was thinking like a little water coagulation like maybe a little pond or something ?? in that clearing with that light from the top left corner sorta like a tyndall effect ??? ill try that now :) thnks

[yinteck]

Not much to show...I am detailing my painting now. ill speed up my pace
vibhas_virwan add a creature or stuff, that will be interesting..haha

[vibhas_virwani]

well maybe i could add something like a deer or another animal drinking water from that ?? idk .... i think ill wait for gundersens paintover like he said ... or examples and sorts ....

[vibhas_virwani]

okay , i have a question .... >>> can a piece have like more than one focal point ????

[yinteck]

A good composition is a composition that will lead the viewers eye into something or guide the viewers through the whole image into something.
If there is a lot of focal point, is will be confusing.

here is a link to more complete answer to your question.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111813

[Gundersen]

Nice to see your helping each other and giveing critts

Attached is a paintover for your image Vibhas. There are several issues that you can think of, but first start with looking at how i changed the values in your image. and got rid of all the tiny brush strokes you had used. Keep the brush in a larger size, be confident. Use the tiny brush for details only, not everywhere

[Gundersen]

Yinteck: There is to much white values in your image. The sky is burning my eyes and forces me to almost look there. Save the sharp white and dark black colours for your focal point. Have a more greyish sky i would recomend. Also it looks like the stones and mountains dont realy meet the ground atm. Look at references on how the transition between mountain and ground is. I would think more loose small rocks so the transition is not so hard. If you want the cave to be your focal point then make sure thats where we are looking at it. By adding in a seconday light source comming from inside the cave we can be interested in looking into it.

Ill let you work more on it before i do a paintover if its needed

[yinteck]

Here another wip, hope this is better. Ill fix the "flying mountain" later.
The focal point should be a snow man falling. I think i need to work on that more

[vibhas_virwani]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/final-2.jpg

this is what i got .... so whatchya gotta say ?? ....

[Gundersen]

Sorry guys for no reply. Will write it up hopefully tomorow, a bit bussy atm! :)

[Gundersen]

Vibhas:

First of all some critts on your forest image:
- There is still a lack of depth, it is better then you last WIP, but you could have taken it longer
- You seem to be using a brush that is to small, the image looks a bit messy
- Colour wise it is interesting, but could have a bit more balance between cool and warm colours, that would maybe contrast it more.
- A positive thing is that you make me look at the stone with that directional light, but after that there is not much else to look at.

Next assignment:

Good work, lets get the ball rolling. For the next assignment I want you to focus more on values. So we will be working in Greyscale. Bellow is two images which was painted first fully in greyscale before I took them into colour. Its important to again focus on creating depth by using the values. Save the bright values for your focal point, and use all the grey colours in the specter, not only black and white.

http://gundersendesign.com/class/Value.jpg

I want you to produce two images in greyscale. You can work as big as you want to, but I want yo to post them in MAXIMUM 500x500 pixels. No bigger then that.

Topic of your two paintings will be: The castle
Try to focus on the landscape around, and make sure that the castle is the focal point of your images. Think about composition, how do you lead the viewer into the image, and how do you make his eyes move around.

Cheers, best of luck

Yinteck: Id like to see another update from you before i comment on it, Last value update then you need to finish it, to long on the same image can get you stuck

[vibhas_virwani]

thanks gun :)
so ill start in a bit ... but i have my final semester exams coming up from 10th may till 21st may ... so i might be a little slow this time around as well :(
and you didnt say anything about the castle so i can put my own imagination and creativity right ??

and i see about the messy-ness of the image ... will try to improve that this time definitely and work harder on values and focal point this time around :)

so it can be any type of a castle right ?? ( MWAHAHAHA ;) thoughts are brewing up hehe)

[yinteck]

Ok, here is the final value piece. Ya, you r right , got stuck a bit in the value stage. Now, ill go into the color. Hope to get it finish soon. Overloaded with assignment latetly:dead:

[Gundersen]

That one looks realy nice Yinteck. Look at arctic images before you start colouring, figure out what colours to use for shadeing and so on. Painting snow is hard...

But nice values, it reads well now

[yinteck]

im having a bit trouble here. When doing a paint over, it is
1. add a new layer on top of the black and white painting
2. set the new layer to multiply and adjust the opacity to 50 - 60%

The problem that i am facing is, when i do the paint over with above setting, i cant really see the detail of the black and white painting. Is hard to differentiate the value after i color it (mountain color almost same with the sky color), especially the dark part.

When should i hide the black and white layer and work with the color ones ? It is after i get the basic color down ?

....:bashful:

[Gundersen]

Well there are many ways of approaching a picture. And i cannot give you the defenite answer to the ultimate way of doing it. Some people start directly on color, others do black and white first, maybe some do a mix. I guess there are as many ways as there are artists.
This is the way i approach it after finishing the greyscale image.
1. I add a new layer
2. I fill this layer either with the bucket or the gradient tool setting the mode of the tool (not the layer) to multiply and to about 50%
3. I try to change the setting on the layer itself to multiply, soft light or overlay, and see if i like it
4. I create a new layer and start to paint with colour, Layer mode normal, and brush mode normal

Tell me if you want a step by step with images

Peace
Thomas

[vibhas_virwani]

really ?? i just keep experimenting here and there .... i almost never stick to one type of mode for coloring .... :O although on the last one (the forest ) i just made another layer (overlay ) and then different brush modes on that .... i keep changing ... never stick to one mode :P hehe maybe thats wrong ... but for me , my favorite mode is overlay .. :D

[~Faust~]

Yo :) I'd just say hi and pop in, wrote to Gundersen that I would like to take part n this fun activity :D.

So about me, well I am a 24-year old german slacker that wants to dive deeper into environment painting and concepts in particular. Hmmm been self-taught for about 3.5 years now and I like cheese.

[yinteck]

Here is a color wip.
~Faust~ - Welcome aboard ! :) Hope to learn something from you too.

[vibhas_virwani]

welcome aboard faust !!! wie gehts ??
yinteck thats turning out nice !!! :) i have worked a bit one one of those castle images ... but im not done with it at all yet ... so ill post later ... when im a little more free from exams ... :(

[vibhas_virwani]

here is the first castle attempt ... im working on this big !! please correct me if i am wrong , gun , the main motive of posting this image in smaller size if to have a better idea about the color values right ?? i mean the depth etc. in the painting as an overview ??
also , i noticed that if i use multiply layer mode for coloring ... the whilte values are the most saturated and for overlay mode while remains as while regardless of the color u put over it .... im confused ... i just go with whichever way it suites ... anyway ... coloring is later i guess ...
now i will wait for a few C&Cs before continuing ... dont worry about the focal point for now please , and ill try to make it more interesting later ... i know its not much to look at for now ... but again , its just a WIP ...
now i must get bak to books #$%$@$!$#$#!#$ >:{

[vibhas_virwani]

whoa !!! i just noticed !!! the castle is a bit awkward !!! its slanting wierdly ... ill fix that !!! smaller size helped me to realize that ... ill fix that ... what else??

[Gundersen]

Ok to start off with I was reading a bit in a discussion regarding mentors and how wrong people can lead mentees on the wrong path. I am not a proffesional, not at all, I am trying to learn myself, and give you the knowledge i learn. I just want to say that you should not take everything i say for granted and belive it is SO. Listen to many people and take advice you feel is for you. Don trust anyone blindly or they can ruin your art process.

Secondly I will be a bit bussy the next weeks, so i wont always respond at once, but I do it as fast as I can! :)


Faust: hi there Faust, I hope I can learn you some from my lectures. I think a good way to start of is to have a look at your perspective skills. Look at page 1 of this thread and the first assignment I gave out. Creating 9 perspective drawings. If you have any questions please feel free to ask, and add me to msn for quick help if you want to.

Yinteck: Your image is getting along nicely here. Try to adjust the colours a bit to make it look even more cold in this environment, the yellow light you introduce to the wall atm is warm. Green is a good colour for shadow on ice and snow, sometimes also purple. Try what works. The falling snowman is the main objective in your image. Id like you to put more focus on it. Sharpen it up, detail it and make sure the brightest light is there! Hehe

Vibhas: Yeah you realized yourself that your castle is skewed.. Also you are having way to much white in your image, That is the reason you get problems when adding on an overlay layer with colour. Save the pure white value for your main focal point, white attracts the eyes towards it. So don’t over use it. And post bigger, I know I told you to post in that size, but I realize now that its to small. Post it bigggggggger.
Your depth is getting better now. Keep pushing it.

[~Faust~]

Hmm is it okay to do the first assigment digitally? Because, I do not have the means to scan stuff at the moment.

[Gundersen]

ok try it. But make it look clean and good

[yinteck]

I'll be a bit late for this one. School is busy now. Dont worry, ill hand them up ASAP

[vibhas_virwani]

hey , can i take a bit of time off , want to give DEEP a shot ... i know im up against gundersen ,, lol ... (fat chance for me ) but no harm in trying anyway ...

[Gundersen]

Vibhas id prefere if you do work here aswell. You can use your Deep work for the mentoring part. If you want to I can help you on the DEEP project as mentoring... If that made sense.

So instead of 2 castles, do 2 Underwater scenes in b&w. And we can start of with the basic of values!

[vibhas_virwani]

ohhh DU~DE!!! awesome !!! will do ... but my 1st castle one is almost complete anyway ... but ill put that on hold for now i guess ... thanks a LOT man !!!

[vibhas_virwani]

last exam 2moro !!!! woohoo !! :P hehe , time to bring out my sketchbook buried under a sand dune !!!

[yinteck]

One more update, ill finish this one. I know im very slow now. I will be back on my schedule after this friday.

[Gundersen]

hey fellas, sorry for being away a bit. A bit bussy the last days so sorry for late reply!

Yinteck: what in heavens name is that brown spike doing there? what is it?... I think the overal feel to the image is getting along realy well. There is a good depth and use of shadow and light. I miss one small thing, what made the snowman fall? did he get pushed or did he blow down? Tell me a story! :)

[vibhas_virwani]

hey !! sorry i havent been around much lately , i have been on the move , travelling ... will be on the move for another week or so i think ... ill catchup when i get back
-v

[Gundersen]

Sorry for being away a bit guys. How are you both comming along? Do you want to continue what you are doing or start new assignments?

Cheers

[yinteck]

FInally i got my computer back. I would like to move on to a new assignment.
Im ready when you are.

[vibhas_virwani]

crap !!! i totally forgot to post my castle before leaving ... :P ill post it as soon as i get home ... and im ready for the next assignment if u think i am ... :)

[vibhas_virwani]

okay so this is the castle that i had made long bak ... and i forgot to submit it before leaving ... anyway , it NEEDS a lot of criticism !!!!
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/castle.jpg
and whats our next assignment btw ??

[Gundersen]

Hey Guys, sorry Iv been a bit away lately :)

Castle looks nice, ill write up some critts on it later, /me promises. Just nag me on msn so i stay active.

For your next assignment i want you to create some custom brushes for landscape pictures. In these images i have used 3-4 different custom brushes i think. Make sure there is alot of different patterns and stuff, so you get interesting effects. Also play around with the brush setting. And post up some speeds you have made with the brushes! :)

If you do well ill share with you the ones i made

[Gundersen]

That assignment is to both of you! :)

[Gundersen]

Do i need to hunt you down? :anime:

Here is some I did today with a couple of industrial brushes i have tried to make, so dont worry if it doesnt look cool or something, just keep trying and see what you get, and show me the best. And maybe we can make some brushes togheter to share with each other!

[vibhas_virwani]

but i dont know how to make custom brushes ...
i have photoshop 7 , is the process kinda different from CS2 or CS3 ??

[vibhas_virwani]

hey , im still waiting on "how to make custom brushes "...
and while ur at it , also criticise this piece for me (my latest teen challenge entry NOT A MATTE-painting :D )
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc132/vibhas_virwani/final-5.jpg

[yinteck]

Hi, i'll post few speedy within this two days.

vibhas_virwani - I dont know this will help or not. Try this http://www.furiae.com/index.php?view=gallery. Go to the tutorial.

[yinteck]

Ok, here they are. Hope is ok. For the custom brushes. First i use a program called Alchemy to create various shape. After that i load the file into PS and add/adjust the shapes

[vibhas_virwani]

i still dont get how to make brushes ... :(

[Gundersen]

Hey, have been on holliday, will post a guide tomorow hopefully, and leave some comments on the work aswell ;)

Cheerios

[Gundersen]

Brush Creation:

Hey guys, here is a simple guide on how to make brushes in photoshop, its not a very complete guide, but it shows the basic principles, there is tons more for yourself to explore when it comes to brush creation. This Brush is created in CS3 on a macintosh machine, which have a different user interface, but it havent changed drasticly, so you should all be able to use it. (the images are a bit small but you should get the points as i explain it)

Step 1

Here you can explore what you want to use, you can take a random image, create random shapes with other brushes or create a circle that creates pattern. Use images you have taken of trees, WHATEVER, there is a 100 possibilities, but what you need to end up with is a black and white image on white background, preferably with with all around your "brush", so you dont get square edges, unless you want that :)

http://gundersendesign.com/div/1.jpg

Step 2

After you have this image ready, then go to "Edit" then to "Define Brush Preset". This is just so that photoshop creates a brush file in the "brush list" where you have all your stuff.

http://gundersendesign.com/div/2.jpg

Step 3

Simply choose a name for your brush

http://gundersendesign.com/div/3.jpg

Step 4

In your brush browser you can now find your brush on the last spot on the list. I have choosen a view where i can see the brush, some only have a list and so on, so its up to you how you set this browser up(i am not skilled on it). Select this brush and go to settings on the brush, on CS3 they have moved it on the right side, on older version its on top right i think, not sure. Here you can play along, look at some other brushes you have and try different approaches and see what effects it has, opacity, jitter, texture and so on are all interesting things to test. Here is where the MAGIC happends and where you find out if the brush works or not!

http://gundersendesign.com/div/4.jpg

[Gundersen]

Yinteck:

Since you have grasped the principle of makeing custom brushes i now want you to make some more spesific use brushes. We need these kind of brushes to create patterns and most important of all speed up the process. So to start of with i want you to make the following four brushes:

- Forest
- Clouds
- Mountains
- Vegetation

All brushes should not be a stamp brush, you should be able to use them with a brush stroke. aka a brush with the forest brush should create a forest feeling. The vegetaion you are free to chose what kind of vegetation.

Feel free to ask for help!