Cooking with Idiot: hp and Zord Edition

[Idiot Apathy]

Assignment ZERO:
1. Introduce yourself!
2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn and think I can help with.
3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here.
4. Point out your OWN strengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness.
5. Identify your favorite type of cake.

Do this as soon as possible, then we can get on to a real assignment!

[Zord]

1. Introduction - My name is Johnny and i'm from Oklahoma. I graduated from the University of Rhode Island in 2007 with a BFA [taken with a heavy grain of salt]. I didn't take the art game too seriously until I joined CA in 2005. I wish I had concentrated on art a lot earlier in life and have been playing catch up ever since.

I've attended the Montreal, [2nd] San Francisco, and Seattle workshops and I can honestly say that each one has been life changing. The experiences and friendships i've made are something that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.

In March i'll be moving to Encinitas, California to learn from Ron and Vanessa Lemen at their studio/school, Studio 2nd Street. I've lived in Oklahoma for the majority of my life, minus the 4 years in Rhode Island, and i'm more than excited about being in California.

2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn and think I can help with. - The transition from pencil/paper to digital is still really apparent in my work, so i'd definitely like to put an emphasis on working with PS. And i've been really inspired recently by Prom's (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/) work, not only in his characters/creatures, but his colors. But to understand color, I need to understand value first. And to be able to create characters/creatures, i'll have to expand my visual library.

3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here. - Here's Emily's sketchbook. (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58738&page=19) This is kind of weird since Emily and I have talked about this before, but her strengths lie in character design as that's what the majority of her work encompasses. But she also does 3D work and the transition from one to the other is interesting. One weakness is that her anime style tends to make some of the characters look similar, especially expressions of the face. I noticed this because I have the same problem of drawing the same things repeatedly.

4. Point out your OWN strengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness. - I've never had a problem of never having any ideas, whether it be about drawing, music, or whatever it is i'm interested in at the moment. But the problem with this is that I have sketchbooks all over the place but rarely take anything to the finished level. I'll jump from one idea to the next and sometimes have a hard time concentrating on one piece for long. It's a problem that i've been slowly working on and hopefully the mentoring will help. I don't want to let anyone down! :)

5. Identify your favorite type of cake. - I really liked those giant cookie cakes at friend's birthday parties when I was younger. You have to answer this question too Tom. Hahaha :geekg:

[hp]

1. Introduce yourself!

I'm Emily Su and I work at ReelFX as a texture artist on Open Season 2. I live in Dallas, TX where I'm going to University of Texas at Dallas and study 3d animation. Andddd my internet sucks so I haven't been able to post until now :D

2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn and think I can help with.

I am looking to learn to loosen up my strokes and use less reference. I would love to matte paint but I also want to be able to paint environs on my own.

3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42510&page=25

I think Johnny has good rendering skills but maybe he should work on more finished illustrations, especially ones with color. He definitely has a realistic yet stylized type of drawing that could come out in these illustrations.

4. Point out your OWN strengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness.

Um I like drawing faces, but really only the eyes... ^^ I can render pretty well if given some sort of reference.

My weakness is that I like drawing eyes...so I neglect everything else. :D I need to do some studies too. I did studies for 3 yrs straight and pretty much no illustration, and then I got tired of them, but I need to get back to the basics.

5. Identify your favorite type of cake.

I don't really like cake actually or sweets... :( I like frozen sweets though! Like popsicles and gelato. <3

[Idiot Apathy]

Hmm ok, your interests are quite a bit different I think. I guess I just got lucky last time. Hehe, that's cool. Makes me think harder.

Johnny; we're going to focus on color and digital painting right?
Em; Could be more specific about why you want to use less reference? How is it holding you back? Did you want to focus on environments as well?

Lemme know :) Got a few ideas...

[Zord]

Spot on Tom :)

[Idiot Apathy]

Cool Johnny.
Assignment One: Zord!
Black and White Photostudy. The best way I have found to gain better control over digital painting is with a 1:1 study from a photograph. The photograph provides the subject matter and how it's arranged, all you need to focus on is how to match this; divide and conquer. Drawing accuracy, form, edge control and value control will also be an important part of the exercise.

Step One: Find your source photograph. Look for something with a very clear division of light and dark. Try and keep it very simple. Post a few options here and I will choose the best one :) Let me know dude.

[hp]

Um I think I just tend to work really slow if it isn't from reference. Anyhoo I would love to just learn how to do environs, from ref or without :D And to improve my color senses. =P

MAKE ME A GOOD ARTIST!!! =P

[Zord]

Here are some photos I thought were interesting. They were originally in color and then just switched to grayscale.

Might need to mess with the levels a little bit to get a good range of values to work with?


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[Idiot Apathy]

Simpler, much simpler. You really want to render all those wrinkles and textures? I sure don't.

[hp]

I want me an assignment! :(

[Idiot Apathy]

Woop, sorry Em - didn't see your post.

Emily Assignment One:
Working in black and white you will do 10 environment thumbnails. These are composition sketches, you will focus on capturing the viewers attention. Doing thumbs you will focus on shapes and how they control the eye and doing so in black and white you will focus on how value does the same. Focus more on clean distinct shapes rather than detail.

I would like to see:
a variety of canvas sizes, both portrait and landscape.
a variety of environments.
a clear focal point in each.
in at least 4 I want to see you place a simple silhouette figure.


When is a fair due date? I know you are busy. Whenever is clever.

[Zord]

Maybe these are a little better?

[leikosuzuka]

1. Introduction: My name is Christina Whitsett and I'm from Omaha, Nebraska. I am currently attending my first year at The Creative Center - Graphic Arts College to earn both my Associate (within 2 years) and BFA degree (within 3).

I have been drawing mostly cartoons since I was 10 and have been interested in art since. I discovered this forum by chance during my senior year of high school and have been attempting the Daily Sketch Group sessions. I also have a sketchbook thread, but no one seems to pay much attention to it.

2. Explain what it is you are looking to learn and think I can help with: I want to learn how make my craft look more professional. I have issues with rushing through my work and not making it the best I can. I also want to learn some more tricks to do with Photoshop.

I'm learning most of these things in school, but I need someone who can put some more pressure on just me alone. Since I have some 40+ other classmates.

3. Visit each others sketchbooks, give a crit. Point out each others strengths and constructively identify one possible weaknesses. Link it back here: Here's Zord's Sketchbook (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42510&goto=lastpost) He has a lot of good shading and design in his work. I like how he concentrates on the anatomy and muscle structure. I think his weakness is that he needs to work on proportions a bit more, because some of his figures look awkward.

4.Point out your OWN strengths and identify what you believe to be your greatest weakness:
I have great ideas in my mind, but they seem to get lost in translation from my head to my hands. I think I'm good at character design and expression. I think I still need to do some work with anatomy.

5.Identify your favorite type of cake: Ice cream cake takes the prize every time for me! Ice cream and cake! You just can't beat it!

[Idiot Apathy]

leikosuzuka: I've only got time for 2 people per thread. Even with just 2 I'm stressed for time, adding more people would only detract from the best I can do and these two deserve at least that. Look for a sign up thread in the future :) Also, purple text hurts my eyes @_@.

Johnny: Much better, let's go with this one: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=296446&stc=1&d=1202271729 You know the drill right? Side by side 1:1 study. Level lines etc. General to specific. Chuckachuckachucka. @_@.

[hp]

Yeah how bout we call the due date: "whenever". If I set a due date I think I won't do it... :D

I'll try to do it soon as possible ^^

[Idiot Apathy]

Any progress?

Johnny: It'd be best to see this in stages, should have mentioned it before.
Em: Kind of thinking that you might do a few and turn them in, that way you can use any feedback for the next batch?

[Zord]

Was wondering when I should post the progress ;) I wanted to have a lot of it finished before showing it but getting the crits and whatnot would be really beneficial right now. Didn't realize how poor my digi. skills were... but that's what this mentoring is for :D

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I've spent a few sessions on this, still a lot more to go.

[leikosuzuka]

leikosuzuka: I've only got time for 2 people per thread. Even with just 2 I'm stressed for time, adding more people would only detract from the best I can do and these two deserve at least that. Look for a sign up thread in the future :) Also, purple text hurts my eyes @_@.

Johnny: Much better, let's go with this one: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=296446&stc=1&d=1202271729 You know the drill right? Side by side 1:1 study. Level lines etc. General to specific. Chuckachuckachucka. @_@.

Yeah, I only noticed that after I posted. Sorry about that, and sorry for hurting your eyes. ^^;;;

[Idiot Apathy]

leikosuzuka: No worries :)

Johnny: Cool dude! I usually use the level and plumbs as checks after I have shapes but this is good too. (You might try using them just as checks if you get a bit bored) First part looks good, focusing on big shapes and placement.You might try and be a little less concerned with detail this early and more concerned with overall form and edges. Make sure the overall roundness of the head/face reads and then move on. You are leaving the hands! Don't doooo that! They can be very useful tools to help you measure other parts on the painting, try and work as much as you can at the same time. Squint and tell me if you really think the left side of the forehead is that light - or most of the values honestly. You might scrub some low opacity black over the whole thing and render out. Don't be afraid to use a brush bigger than what you are working on! Stage3, shapes seem to be in just about the right position, values and edges not as much. Can you really see her eyelid on the left so bright? :O Sorry for the rambling format, just quicker :P Going to paint on it a bit... Ok, doodle a bit just to show you where you might go etc etc and uploaded the PSD. Some of the shapes are still off, nose - lips, forehead and cheeks a bit too. Fix a few more of these problems and post up again ok? :) Don't stress it or push too much, let's move on before you get sick of it, cool?

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http://www.divshare.com/download/3780383-382

RAR, that junk make sense buddy?

[F87]

Wow, this is cool! Good luck my friends!

(Happy Birthday Emily!)

[Zord]

Hey Tom, I haven't been able to work on this as much as i'd like because i've been sick and bed ridden the past few days. The illness crept up on me and I figured to post what i've got so far even though it's not as finished, and to also show that i'm not dead.. even though it feels like it; don't want to seem like i'm neglecting the mentoring.

The paint over definitely helped a lot, thanks for taking the time man. :)

There are still tons of things wrong with this that I need to fix, i'll post again when there's more progress made.

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[Idiot Apathy]

No worries brosef. Looking good dude. I still think you are having to work too hard though dude. Lots of strokes where there could be only a few. Try and work on leaving yourself less cleanup and using bigger brushes. Time for a new exercise, one I should have had you do first - but didn't think of it til now :P

Johnny Assignment Two:
In the spirit of divide and conquer - let's focus on a smaller and less complicated area. Pick one of these for now and get painting :) 1:1 copy and all that. Maybe leave the measuring alone until you have a quick sketch? Cool dude? In the ones with little bits of other features - ignore those little bits :P Forget about rendering freckles and hairs too hookay?

[Zord]

So here's what i've got so far. Some of the values are out of wack, i'll go through and fix them tomorrow. The shape of the eye is off too. I needs me some fresh eyes. :)

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[Idiot Apathy]

Hey dude, when I have some more time I'll do a PO and Comment but for now how about you do a nose?

[hp]

Sorry, been busy, I'm working on my assignment now though! :D

[Idiot Apathy]

Emuhree: Hullo?
Zordo: Much better, should have had you focus on something simpler to start with. Live and learn. I wonder what your minimum brush size is set at? You still seem to be getting some very digital brush strokes. Regardless, nice block in homey! *high five* Moving past #3, sometimes I will leave details out like highlights in eyes etc etc because I know I will have to render over it to get the underlying structure and tone right. Yeah I really wonder what your minimum brush size is ... Anyhow, I think the eyebrow shape is a bit small and off target, upper eyelid and (iris?) could be a bit darker, yeah overall your darks could be a bit darker but yeah dude - much improved don't you think?

You get a chance to do a nose?

[hp]

i know i know! i'm so bad! :( my tablet has been going in and out so i've only done five...will post the rest tomorrow. they're just sooooo bad :( and i don't know what is with me and painting phallic towers of rock.

i had a hard time trying to find a brush that worked for me. i ended up using a mixture of a palette knife and a watercolor brush.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9493/15469746om4.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4251/39709514jm4.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4056/76539246rj2.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/8051/66227181ea1.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5073/33431103an4.jpg

[hp]

and the rest...

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6872/6copypv0.jpg

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/5180/7copyfx9.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7198/8copyor7.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/75/9copyik7.jpg

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/6118/10copytl6.jpg

[Zord]

Tom: Hey man, here's the next project. I've been busy with packing, moving, saying goodbye's, and getting settled in. All the good stuff :) I just wanted to make sure I had something to post. It's obviously not perfect... but i'm slowly getting a hang of it. Wheee! :)


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[hp]

wahhh you're in cali already! ^^ how is it?

i would watch the bottom of the nose. the part under the rounded tip and above the right nostril (our right) is missing a shadow. on the left nostril, the part under it should appear thicker.

[Idiot Apathy]

:) Awesome buddy! Califorrrrrnia. I'll try and get caught up with this stuff tonight. Send us some pic's from cali !

[Idiot Apathy]

Em: Sorry it's taken me this long, life is busy as I'm sure you can relate to :) How's work?
About brushes: I think the shapes and edges you make are more important than the brush you use, you should be able to use just about any brush!
The Paintings: Just going to shoot from the hip here and say what comes to mind, hopefully there are a few gems amongst the garbage.
1. Be a little wary of dividing your spaces evenly or near even. Here you almost have a + . It's not a rule, just a guideline to keep things from becoming too stagnant. Think about overlapping your shapes a bit too!
2. Pretty good depth from a good use of values and to a lesser extent edges and of course overlap. Phallic rock towers ftw! I know it's just a thumbnail but cleaning up your strokes and especially your shapes and edges goes a long way.
3. Happy to see the amount of experimentation in these :) I think this one could have benefited from the way you used values in the 2nd - could even reverse it. Might round out some of your shapes to keep it from looking too 2d?
4. Hey! It's that phallic rock again! Complete with testes! Pretty good depth, t his time it's more edges than it is values. You might consider boosting the value contrast between foreground and background even more - like in #2 again. Not a bad composition actually, pleasant to view. Yeah these are all pretty good compositionally.
5. Cool:) Push those values! Sometimes there are things in nature that are subtle but add a lot of realism and believability in your paintings - think about how a constantly running waterfall might have erroded the surrounding cliffs.
6. Sharpen tools can be nice it's true - but I think once you start to get jagged artifacting like you have in a few of these it might too much? Like the setting and mood, composition is a little too equally divided for my tastes perhaps? Not just in relation to the borders, but a lot of the shapes and the areas they take up are the same or similar. Variety is the spice of life as well as composition and interest.
7. Hey there we go! Like the new approach. Good values. Consider "blending" a few of the larger shapes together or more of a textural gradient where light is spilling over etc etc - keep it from looking like a cardboard cut out.
8. Mm pretty good lighting Em! You can feel it's form.
9. This one needs more love! Ok depth but not that interesting compositionally. Too much repetition and not enough contrasting ideas.
10. Cool :) A little same same equal sizes going on and is dying for a middleground!

Ready for part 2?
Take #2 and #6 - blow them up and render them out a bit more. Fix any composition problems but try and keep the general subject matter the same. Focus mainly on an interesting composition and secondly on rendering. Keep them in black and white. How's that sound?

Johnny: Getting better and better dude! Pretty good process as far as values are concerned. Edges could maybe be thought about a littler earlier in the process perhaps? Overall edges could use a little love actually. You using the round? Don't be afraid to change it's hardness as you need it! Values in the end are a little off - and quite a bit off on the right nostril and surrounding area. If you have time go over this with a multiply layer and get those values and value shapes right dude! I'll work on your next assignment.

[Zord]

Emiry: California's been pretty good so far. The weather's been really nice... nice enough for these ---> 8) Thanks for the crit too! Hope work isn't completely kicking yo' butts, stealing all ur timez ;)

Tom: I've been pretty much using the round brush exclusively, don't want to get all complicated right now with fancypants brushes. You're right about the edges too, I need me some more 'edge+ctrl.' Thanks for mentioning the hardness settings, I totally forgot and was just using the round at it's hardest setting and just messing with opacity. :)


And here's what i've got so far. I had to work on it in 2 more sittings [after what I posted on the 17th]; my PC erased the 1st sitting for some reason and I had to re-do it. But it seems to have worked in my favor. Funny how things tend to work out sometimes. All in all i'm pretty satisfied with how it's turned out. :)

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And a little gif, jumping aboard the 'gif-train.'

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Edit: Forgot to mention that I got some crits and tips from my roomie, Extollere. Having people around to help is refreshing, much thanks man!

[Idiot Apathy]

Awesome dude, much better! Say Hi to Extollere for me!

New Assignment:
1:1 side by side copy of this image:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7751/40446509ee5.jpg

One you finish; swap out your reference for this image but work overtop the same painting:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9397/42467941ir5.jpg

Don't worry to an extreme about shapes and values - they will change a bit. Just get the general placement and landmarks down. Don't worry about being laser clean like these are either.

Get to this point and post, we'll move on from there :)

[Zord]

So here's the next one :)

Sorry it's taken so long, been kinda busy and all that, although I don't like making excuses :dur:

Hopefully it's alright... a lot of the shapes are off and some of the placement's kinda wonky...

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[Idiot Apathy]

No worries dude, take your time.

I want you to spend a little more time on this one before we move on. I checked the next step and it's important enough that you polish this one a little more.
Things I noticed:
The eye shapes on the right are much too high. Am I right in thinking this is where you started on the features?
The eye shapes on the left are too big, you have compensated for having put the eyes too high up.
The nose and jaw are also too high, again you have compensated.
Put the dark shape under the jaw in, helps a lot.
Light shapes on the right of the canvas for hair too.

Each step is a chain of events, if you are wrong at the beginning it will only get worse. Make sure that the area you are basing your measurements on is spot on. Even then you need to measure and/or visually assess the position of every shape. Can you see that placing things correctly is vital? If this had been a final painting you would have spend ages on something you had made mistakes with at the very beginning. You might be saying - sure this only helps me copy things - but indeed this helps you analyze everything you do and gives you the language and perception required to understand and remember all that you will ever study.

Yatta yatta, I'm getting wordy. Don't be afraid to use level and plumb checks - use any means necessary of checking your placement at this time - do not however jump straight into measuring; first do your best to "eyeball" it. Our goal here is not replication - it is training.

You polish it up a bit bud? Use any methods you like - transform, copy and paste - etc etc.

[Zord]

Here's the updated version yo'...

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Thanks for the general ass-kickery, I need it every now and again to get in gear. :) I used transform and rotate this time around too, always forget that they're there.. but that's what this threads for right? Hope this one isn't too bad like the last one.

[Idiot Apathy]

Haha the last one wasn't too bad. My writing may have been harsh but I didn't intend it that way. I should have taken more care with my words.

This one is much better. There are a few inaccuracies that will cause you trouble if you don't correct them in the next stage, most notably the size of her jaw.

The next step:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1259/14012008049942000120026zc8.jpg
Continue with this new image over top your progress thus far.

Something I've waited until you were far enough along in the exercise to mention is - that this is approximately how you should start just about any study and perhaps any painting. Work from general to specific in stages, moving on only when you are sure of your placement. When you keep things as efficient as possible you keep yourself motivated and learning rapidly. I do want to note however that you would probably be better off with a more angular approach instead of the exercise examples I have been providing. They are just the result of a few cheap filters and only a means to an end for this exercise.

[Zord]

Just wanted to post the in-between progress of this stage. The shapes are still rough, wanted to make sure this part's o.k. before smoothing out all the different shape edges. :)



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[Zord]

A little update... not sure if it's OK to go on? Lemme know, Tom.



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[hp]

Not much of an update...but I started to work on #6 environment (the one with the frozen trees and water). It's going to end up being a lot darker. Do you have any tips for trees?

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6872/6copypv0.jpghttp://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6857/repaint6mt1.jpg

[Idiot Apathy]

Johnny: So so soooooooo close dude. I had to overlay them just to figure out what little was off. Just a few small things; fix the forehead angles on each side, put that cheekbone shape in, fix the shape of the nose and fix the edge of the hair in the top right. Minor stuff!

Once you are finished - here is the final step:
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5535/14012008049942000120026ee5.jpg

Em: Will try and reply tonight, got to go! Hope all is well :)

[Idiot Apathy]

Em: Ok, whoah - hehe I didn't mean for you to restart your painting; just to refine the existing one. Anyhow, I really like the new one. Don't really have many tips for trees - been trying to figure them out myself. They have a lot more branches than you would think. I would say try and keep from adding branches only on the sides - makes them look flat. The other thing though is to define your lightsource and work the shading and planes out. Doing this all throughout this painting will do wonders. I think you already have a few good planes set up and some good local color differences, just keep going and expanding on those. I like the composition and I think it has a lot of potential. Let's see you take it further yeah? Still in black and white, blow that sucker up and let's see some rendering.

[Idiot Apathy]

*poke poke*

[hp]

Sorry, I know I'm totally dead in this thread! Everything has been going wrong in my life recently with moving and work and school and it's just been really stressful! Sorry :( I have been working slowly on my painting but I have about 18 other small paintings I need to do by next weekend :(

I definitely will finish it sometime in June...dunno if you'll lose patience by then =P

[CeeJay]

any room for another student? :)

[sandworm]

I'd like to get in on this thread as well if it's still going. Anyone around?

[Idiot Apathy]

Hey guys, I start a new thread up about every month or so.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123507
Sign up here to be considered for future threads.

Thanks youuuuuuuu.

[hp]

might be a bit too contrasty (our comps at work are pretty bright) but i'll check it later at home. and the rocks aren't wet and some of the water isn't straight...bleh. i did deviate from my watercolor brush and use a spray brush for the trees, hopefully it's not cheating ^^

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3649/repaint63mr5.jpg

[Idiot Apathy]

Massive progress on this one Em, looks like the past few months have been good to you art wise. I did a quick PO;
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The main thing I noticed is that just about all your different objects seemed to have the same local value and were shaded about the same (that or they were radically overexposed). I brought all the values down to a similar range and reserved some of the extremes for smaller areas as well as tried to add a sort of gradient to show depth throughout. One thing I wanted to change but didn't was the trees, they are just a bit anorexic perhaps? :|

What would you like to do next Em? Hope work is treating you well!

[hp]

I'm working on the phallic rock one but i have trouble drawing cliffs boo. i don't know if you have any tips for that.

about the last piece, i think i have trouble keeping within a range of values (i'm like CONTRAST WOOO). about the trees, i was looking at some refs and they seemed to have some skinny trees but i agree that there could be some sturdier looking ones.

[Idiot Apathy]

Hey, uhhh uhh uhhhhh - what we doin? :O

[yaniv]

is the thread still on ?
i'd like to do some exercise, specially volumes and planes,
and rendering/ shading

tell me if it's still on

[Idiot Apathy]

Nope! Sign ups are over here;
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123507

:)