Ashess gets mentored by Juxsen

[ashess]

Lucky!
Ye, that right, Juxsen has agreed to mentor me!
Ok, first a little about me. I’ve been drawing a long time, mostly from life. Did an art education, then worked teaching for 2 years, then did an animation education, Mostly 2d. After that started working free-lance, and I’m now working 3 days a week at a small game-company. Modeling, and soon animating in Blender. So that 3d.
Well, although I’ve been drawing a long time, I’ve noticed that, especially when I draw from the heart, a lot of my work feels flat. I’ve been trying to fix that by drawing deeper perspective, trying to look at plains, and also giving a new amount of attention to my anatomy knowledge. I've also been doing drawing from reverence.
Well, obviously I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. Sometimes I think I’m maybe skewing perspective. Sometimes I look back and it looks like some parts are draw from the wrong angle.
Juxsen’s work seems very strong to me in that respect. When he draws a tiger’s chest, it has width, length AND depth. Plains have obvious directions, and limbs and such rise from those plains at obvious angles.
A little about my tools at hand. I have a wacom, photshop and painter8. illustrator. Some other drawing programs too. Analogue I have almost anything you can think off. Many different sizes and types of paper, charcoal and pensils, aquarel, Indian ink. I even have acrillique and somewhere I should have oil paint and canvas. Though I haven’t used it for a long time Oo. I have an easel and such and a membership to the local zoo ;)
I should be able to spend at least 4 hours a week on these assignments.
Well, finally, what I hope to learn is to draw in plains, to get my subject’s dimensions straight. I feel I do ok in this when drawing from live, but I wish to be able to do the same when designing my own characters and poses.
I hope you will be able to help me in this Juxsen! And, of course, thank you for you time!
here are some examples of my work. the dogs are from ref, but they still look flat!
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[juxsen]

Good Noon Ashess,

First and for most dispensing the formalities; introduction: My name is Juxsen Rai, you can call me Juxsen. I'm pretty sure you are also wondering how old I'm and what my experiences are so forth, so As far as the age goes let's just say I'm 3 years older than you and as for the experiences I've already mentioned, I'm a very inexperienced artist and I've yet to find any work relating to art so as you can see I’m still learning… myself, and my main intention here was to find a mentor. I had no intention of mentoring anyone knowing fully what my limitation are; but since you approached me with that lovely offer and that of your cuteness factor I simply couldn’t refuse (just making light of the situation) Anyways my point is you can still change your mind about this.

Nevertheless I’ve actually done some snooping around and collected as much information about you and your work that which is already laying around in the CA board and I fell I might be able to help and will do the best to provide one… so before we go any further let’s lay down some ground rules.

From here on I’ll always try be absolutely honest and tell you exactly what I feel setting aside the formal etiquette just a shy away from being harsh and I would appreciate you also do the same…

Here goes… once you’ve started the secession I would prefer you commit to it per our understanding or that if you feel you no longer need my help and decide to stop (I would appreciate you let me know of your decision before hand). I want as much commitment from you as I’m willing to set aside my time in teaching you.

Though I don’t mind we partake this endeavor in equal teams and I even encourage we do that I would appreciate we both understand our places that being mentor and mentee.

As long as this venture last I would like to have you update your work or for that matter if there isn’t any I would like you to bring up a topic of what concerns you what ever it may be at least once every week so as to not loose the momentum of the workshop.

Let’s be realist and keep the workshop going till February 20th. After that we’ll know where to go from there… as long as there is a need to keep on pursuing we will do that unless you have a better idea (I’m open to any suggestion)

As for the others who are, and will be watching this post I’d appreciate that you allow us to conduct our workshop without the intrusion, however I don’t mind if you were to post a comment regarding my approach or for that matter any helpful suggestion, in fact I would encourage you all to. As far as the mentoring goes I’ll only be working with Ashess for now, but if in case in the future I feel comfortable enough to take on more I’ll have the information posted in http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=110324

Now Ashess… as to what I’ve seen so far of your work I see you have a promising potential, however you also have as many a nuances of drawbacks, therefore I’ll start off with the basic and in slower increment even though I know you already have enough understanding of them. So without any further ado…

As your first exercise I would like you to take a day or so just observing, whereas to your usual routine sketching while observing. Take that time to merely observe anything; be it ppl on the street, watching TV or magazine or ref material on your computer anything. Just observe while trying to simplify every thing into corresponding shapes (ball, cylinder, pyramid or the square) and be mindful of your understanding to those relation.

When you are not observing (this means you in front of your computer just sketching without referring back to any reference) I want you to set aside some time to sketch just from your mind the shapes of cylinder, pyramid and the square separately in many different perspective whatever your mind can conceive of… that particular time while trying to keep them in proper proportion (no cheating), then I want you to clean the outlines (doesn’t have to be proper just clean strokes) of the sketch in a separate layer and have it posted just a page or so. By the way I want you to open up a file in whatever software you are comfortable at and have you work on it for the entirety of this workshop. Once you have done that you can email me and let me know (you can find my @ on the profile section of the deviantArt account)

The rest you wait for my response… so what are you waiting for… go on get on it… 

[ashess]

:D thank you Juxsen! those rules you set out seem very good.
and I dont mind starting at the start. it may well be that there's a problem in that area.. I really want to start right now, but I will have to wait till tomorrow eve. its bed time, and working tomorrow. ^^ but I will definitely start as soon as I get home.. well. maybe one sketch be4 bedtime ;)

[ashess]

hah, well I actually expected not to need to clean up, because it should have been clear lines from the start, right? well, not quite :/ I found pyramids and cylinders to skew, so had to draw guides anyway. here's 2 first pages.
also looked at our cats. just in case I'm missing the essential cuteness (heh well I guess I started it ;) )
I hope I got the idea of this part of the excersize. I wasent quite sure if I was supposed to draw over these too. mostly just looked though, so its just real quick scribbles.
more inc soon :D
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[juxsen]

it's a good start... next time when you lay down the lines at least the cleanup ones try not to use repetitive stroke over the same line, instead take your time to lay them down with more confident single strokes, from now on try to do at least three pages of those (each page containing single element... cone, triangle, and square) as a warm up before each exercise I may give you next time

[juxsen]

As for now keep finding various ways to sketch those elements putting them in various perspective... find creative ways to represent them without breaking the perspective rules... right now I'm somewhat per occupied nevertheless I'll have an exercise posted later, if possible sooner, whenever you get the time you can work on them and have them posted while notifying me of your progress... sounds good?

[ashess]

sounds great :D thanks!

[juxsen]

Second exercise

OK just in case if I didn’t make sense b4 about the clean stroke, I’ve gone ahead and sketched over your rough ones to give you an idea of what I meant… it doesn’t have to be perfect but at least take your time to understand why each stroke goes where it should… consider them, think b4 you pen them (and always try and visualize everything in 3D form... be it am object, organic, inorganic... whatever). Art is always beautiful when there is spontaneity and bit of free reign, but before we take that step of breaking the rules and letting the chaos reign free you must be fully aware of each rule that is there and be at least familiar with them (they must be somewhat second nature to you)… This doesn’t necessarily mean I’m an expert but this is the only best way I know how in helping you to make the appropriate improvement as of now

As for your other animal sketches I would prefer you do them on your own and please only post them when I ask of you. I’m not quite there yet in the process to have you work on them, we will get there soon enough… however you are more than welcome to practice them on your own.

Anyway back to the exercise… as I’ve mentioned b4, every time you start off an exercise try doing warm up sketches- the ones I told you off. You don’t have to work on them seriously, just get the feel of it and you don’t need to post them all the time… except when you don’t have any assignment to work on or say I forget to give you one for whatever reason… OK.

Now as for the next exercise I’ve sent you a PS file which I hope will help you understand cylinder form perspective. It is just like key frames animation. I want you to follow the direction of the path while placing each cylinder on the red dot to sketch them out. It doesn’t have to be perfect and correct; however it does need to make sense. I’ve sketched out an example just so you know what I mean… As you sketch them please just don’t go right ahead and start hammering them down… take your time to understand what is needed in your mind first, then try ghosting the strokes first (by ghosting I mean for you to go over the intended strokes with out actually striking the paper or board couple of time b4 you actually pen them down) once you are confident then have it penned down.

I really despise lecturing... and here I'm going on and on... I only hope it's at least some help. Well, nevertheless let me know when you are done…

[ashess]

hi juxsen. :) sorry for taking so long. and this is just the 1st of 3 yet. I'll post the process so you can get a better idea of what problems I ran into.
ok, first, I know I was supposed to understand where to place things, and then ghost the strokes. but at first I had real trouble figuring things out, so I finally decided to just start drawing and when I figured things out just start again. that time, I got this:
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then, I sortof got the idea, just pretty much guessing where things would go:
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I think it looks sortof ok, but like I said, I was just guessing, so I tried to figure the perspective out, and I came up with this:
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I could draw that in with a bit of confidence. I cleaned it up once with 'clean' strokes anyway. I now remember why I use curves all over :p when drawing straights its pretty obvious when your line deviates,.. and I'm not that good at getting line exactly where they should go I guess.
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[juxsen]

Ashess: This is definitely the sort of work I was hoping to get it out from you... as you can see for yourself you have made a very good use of a critical thinking and not only managed to challenge yourself but as well overcome them... as you already know frustration is the first sign of improvement as long as you are willing to take it head on... so keep up the good work... as for the time I'd say as long as you aren't willing to drop the ball it matter not, all I'll ask is for you to do your best while procrastinating less as possible :) so far you are doing great...

[ashess]

ah. hah, yeah. I hate it when ppl do that :p just want you to know, I am learning lots from it, and putting time in. it just wont go any faster :P
here's the 2nd. I had some trouble here figuring out the perspective. at first I thought the cylindar was on its side. But that didnt make much sense to me. when I imagined looking from down up, it did work. well, the cups perspective went a bit against that. still, its what I came up with:

[juxsen]

ashess: Good Job... the second one looks and feels alright (I'm pretty sure you still can see few perspective err here and there, but as long as you are aware of them that will do for now, however I expect to see the lesson carried onto your further sketches), I'm sure you will get the third one done too... then we can move on to some more fun exercise... if you can, have the box work around the same path line as you did of the cylinder. I'll be keeping an eye out to see your updates... if in case keep me posted

[juxsen]

Ashess: Feb 20th is fast approaching... you still want to push on...

[ashess]

yes. definitely. sorry I've been quiet. having a few deadlines I cant get around, but I think I should be able to finish no. 3 today.
I'm having fun with this, and doing something different which I think is good.

[ashess]

ok, this is the last one. it went easier in figuring out the basic shape, but the sizes still seem to be off a bit.

[juxsen]

You are getting there and you are right there are few things you still can improve upon but for now I'm happy you are aware. In our further exercise I'd like you to make those correction which you feel needs improving. Try to make a habit of taking the time to do whatever is needed to make it feel and look right for yourself, just don't be satisfied with "that will do for now".

Anyways let's move on... alright what I want you to do next is do a sketch of a pose be it a human, animal or both (whatever you feel like) then a another silhouette sketch of the corresponding figure (profile or front view depending on the subject) showing the measurement (such as breakdown to a head ratio) as you know best without referring to any material, You don't have to break them down to details, just the overall body proportion for now

Well let me know when you are done

[ashess]

fun ^^

well I didnt want to miss another chance of doing this, so I did most of the drawing analogue. I just have the head-to body ratio and the head/chest/hips ratio.. couldnt really think of any others.

[juxsen]

I sent you a PSD file with the assignment in it hope you got it... if not let me know and by the way it's one week assignment... it's fairly basic assignment and I'm sure you won't have any problem with the time line however if you do need more time or if you have any question you know where to reach me so let me know.

[juxsen]

how is it coming along...

[ashess]

I'm a day late already arent I? sorry.
its getting there.. the last exersize isnt quite ready.. but im beginning to doubt I understood it right, so I'm just gonna post what I have.
about the last one.. you did want bodies, right?

[juxsen]

Ashess: the last assignment is to draw just the box that represents torso and draw them in a manner that reflects natural torso bend and fold

As for the others I see there are few things you still need to work on... I'll correct them later and post them so you can look at them, and if I get the time I'll send you some assignment... it appears we have to break it even further but I'm glad you are showing much improvement it's just that I haven't been able to grasp your overall understanding yet and as you already know that I'm new to this mentoring thing so I'm still adjusting and adapting to your need hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon

[juxsen]

quick questions how are the assignments so far... are they tough or easy or even confusing... are you able to learn at least some if not any... let me know

[juxsen]

I'll get back to you soon... but for now this should give you some perspective

[ashess]

I like the assignments a lot. but I sometimes don't quite grasp what you are asking.
it might have to do with the fact that I'm not a native speaker.
as for difficulty.. well, they seem like very basic assignments at first. but I do have quite a bit of trouble doing them. mostly due to skewing/ dodgy perspectives. so I think they're on the mark :D
Edit: ye.. I thought I was doing something wrong in that last assignment. I'll try a redo, hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

[juxsen]

I'm glad you like the assignment... and don't beat yourself up too much. The fact is English is my third language to be precise so I don't think it is just you... maybe it is me who isn't doing so much a good job in explaining matters... nevertheless try and explain it to me what is it that you find difficult when it comes to skewing/ dodgy perspectives... I'll see what I can do to help... the thing is once you can wrap your mind around the forms, be it just the head construction or human body anatomy, everything starts making sense

[ashess]

Im gonna have to hold off till the weekend for the last assignment's redo I'm afraid. visitor's just left and its almost bedtime already Oo. but we had fun so thats good.
anyway, the thing about perspective is, I think I loose sight of the over-all picture. its like this picture attached. that was my first try at the 2nd assignment.
the parts sorta work, but the overall.. its not facing the same way.

[ashess]

well, this is a somewhat better try at exersize 2d.

[juxsen]

Ashess: My apology for keeping you waiting, I'm swamped for the time being but hand tough I'll get back to you soon and will to make it up to you... :yayca:

[ashess]

thats ok :)
I did take some time to make more detailed sketches.

[ashess]

these are a slight variation, but I think the still fit within the exersize- 90sec from posemaniacs.. (3d model screens)

[ashess]

I still had some time left over this week-end, so I did one more. I wasnt too happy about the 3-d ness of the previous once, so I tried to focus on debth here.

[juxsen]

I just stopped by to check in... Ashess I'm glad you are keeping yourself busy... I see your sketches has improved quite a ways... whereas to your previous sketches, this new ones have much more life like appeal and that they look more proportionated. I know they look bit rigid and mechanical for now but you'll soon find out with a bit of a tweaking your sketches will turn out much more professional and it's not that far... you have improved a lot and I'm pretty sure you feel somewhat that, what I'm saying makes sense... anyways... I'm almost done, so I'll be sure to keep you busy soon enough... and thank you for being patience... cheers :)

[ashess]

thanks; yes, I do feel I'm getting the hang of it a bit now. I think I just needed a little time to figure the box figures out. so, no harm in you being busy either. I think I even want to do a few more.
good luck on the deadline!

[juxsen]

Hi Ashess,

My apologies to have kept you waiting this long, anyways where were we... let's see... so far to what I see from your sketches you have shown quite an improvement... Good Job so far. Anyways just a reminder, I’m using construction lines only for the purpose of making you understand why and where the forms falls, and I strongly advise you not to use them as much once you start feeling confident with your sketches (take is as a training wheel on a kiddy bicycle). For the purpose of improving for now it is alright, but try to eventually work those lines in your head instead and start sketching without it. It's main purpose is to be an asset rather than a handicap.

Anyways here are few tips on the head and torso construction...

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Hope that make sense and lastly When sketching always try and avoid drawing a flat perspective by that I mean straight frontal pose or perfect profile perspective, rather always find a bit dynamic perspective to set your characters on. This way it forces you as well you’ll have enough room to put in all the needed information (forms and parts) so as to give life to all your sketches and appear more pleasing.

Albeit I have sent you a PSD file with a very simple assignment, let me know when you are done, and by the way thanks for being so patient.

I'll try to be on top of things from now on :)

[ashess]

Im back ^^!
had a great time in japan, and made some aquarels there.. hope to put them in my drawings thread when I get them photographed.
I also went ahead and finished the assignment..
only thing is, I went ahead and drew in the clothing at the end. I meant to save that as a different version, but I seem to have messed up with that.
I do still have the boexed version. I hope this is good enough. else, Ill just make a new one.

[ashess]

since I wasent too happy with the results, here's one on paper.. though this time I think its a lil too much hips.

[juxsen]

Few pointers

[ashess]

thanks for the fixup juxsen. I can see it working better then my sketch. only thing is, I had wanted to give shoulders and hips an opposing angle.
this would be head on view, but then I wanted to do it from a high viewpoint. ^^ if you have the time, would you mind giving me a sketch for that? thanks; hope im not imposing!
http://www.ashess.nl/stuff/sketch.jpg

[juxsen]

I still am not quite sure what you mean but here is the rough to what I understand... when trying to work in the high view perspective, foreshortening is very crucial... :) hope that is of some help

[ashess]

hi Juxsen!
thanks for sticking by me- it took a while.
as I wrote you in the email, I started again a few times because I wasnt happy.
looking back now I really dont see the latter ones being that much better, so I'll post my first attempts too.

first, my latest attempt. these are the ones I wanted to post as 'character sketches'.

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this is the one I made first. the frontal view was frustrating me. I wanted to have it the same as the side view with the hand on hips, arms jutting backwards.
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and this is an different approach to the last char. it just didnt have enough volume for my liking.
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again, I'm sorry for taking such a long time. I hope these are about right. sometimes charactersheets also show different facial expressions, but that didnt seem relevant yet.
thanks for watching, AS

[juxsen]

AS,

The assignment is to come up with just a character in a model sheet, with frontal view (simple), and side view... like in the character proof sheet for the game... nevertheless there are quite an improvement, keep it up... there are few loose ends but all in all you have incorporated most prominent shapes that represents various parts,

Again, I want to see a character you come up with and in a model sheet format... I would like to take an approach of a quick session per assignment that involves less work but lots collectively over the course of weeks if not... months. Within that practice we will be throwing lots of notes as to why, how, where, when all that is necessary, the best we can... so sketch me one, and as for these sketches we'll get back to them soon enough

[ashess]

whoops. sorry about that. when we make animation char sheets they're usually even more detailed.
ok, this one should do then I think.

[juxsen]

Good Job! you've chosen a female character, so we will stick with her till we decide to move onto diff one.

There is definitely improvement however few thing I want you to bring about changes in your sketches are to limit your strokes over the same line... if it helps take your time, by that I mean think it over before and if you don't like it erase it and do over or if you have better technique that works for you best apply it to go about limiting the lines... as to the ones you like, you can drop few more line on top of it to thicken them and draw more attention to that line however if you do that same thing over the ones you don't like and with that in mind if you drop more line to correct it, not only will it look worse, instead it will draw more attentions to the err... The reason I'm emphasizing on a clean confident strokes is... first it will look better which in turn will help you feel good about your work and that is always good for your moral and confidence.

The next thing is try to keep in mind of the proportion in ratio to the character head... be it cartoonish chibi or realistic form... just try to keep it consistent... it's hard but that doesn't mean it can't be mastered, however I must admit I too struggle on that fact and am always practicing to improve upon.

As for the notes and correction I'll have them posted over the weekends if not... Monday for sure

In the mean time I would like you to take the sketch you posted and have it divided into head ratio as to character's head and as well block in the values... for a starter just use black and white doesn't have to be black and white... as long as there are two values that contrast each other that will do, we'll get into more complex values later for now go with just two, black/dark value being the shadow and the white/lighter value being the light...

As for the light source, lets keep it simple and have it shining head on straight like the car's headlight lighting the character...

And finally do let me know if you would like this process go otherwise in a different direction or if you think a different approach would be better for you I'm all ears. :)

Well let me know when you are done

[ashess]

ok :) I think it'll have to wait till tomorrow at least; too tired right now. as how it's going I think its fine. I'm a little curious where we are taking this, but im sure Ill find out soon :D

[ashess]

rough blocking, but I did try to keep to one line.

[juxsen]

I hope this makes sense to you ashess... to see if it did... as your next exercise I'd like you to take the bottom example of the character modelsheet layout and redo the assignment again... no tracing over the example or your existing sketch... make a fresh one...

Let me know when you are done...

[ashess]

hi
hope this is an improvement. though the side view's turned out a little thin.