All about style.

[Illysian]

I had to start this grand ol' conversation up because I was just told to stick to a cartoon style.

Some one /PLEASE/ explain to me because this is what I have stuck in my head.

Isn't it true that one should strive for as many styles as they can, not just cartoon, cartoony etc, and yet not just set on in the realistic style? Is it really possible to be a 'poser' and strive to excel in another style even though you're seen as something else?

No, I don't think it is, so if someone could explain to me the reasonings and the help that can be achieved by 'sticking to your own style', I would really love to be enlightened.

[Seedling]

Sounds like you were given some bad advice.

[Illysian]

I don't even have words for how I feel for this place right now. I've only just gotten back, I pour everything I have in my heart, and yet the only few comments are 'bad advice' or 'advice already known'. Everyone here knows, or at least they should that they should of course always work on anatomy, life and especially with pencil.

Perhaps I am expecting too much of this place as an intellectual community able to give me input that otherwise is left unspoken.

Thanks for at least posting, it's bad enough to be conflicted with one's self most of the time, but to have your learning foundations advised against must've been a bit much for me.

[Seedling]

Who told you to stick to a cartoon style, and under what circumstances?

Generally it's unwise for anyone learning to draw to stick to any style, because doing so limits artistic skill development.

[Renegade89]

Im currently looking to your sb, are you refering to the last comment made by Camara? if thats so, i feel you may be misinterpreting what he meant. or he didnt redact it in the most clear way.

[Illysian]

Camara, in response to my sb. I'm sorry if they didn't redact in the clearest of ways but just opening a statement by 'Your Sb makes me mad' Regardless of whether or not it's to the art or what's contained in it, or if it's just the responses, it rubs people the wrong way. I have to say that's probably the worst way to open up a statement to anyone in general online, in person or any other fathomable way.

And also regardless, it's the fuel for this topic but I've gotten an answer from a respectable artist so therefore it's done with.

What's said is said and well it hasn't hindered my work or my practice. :P
I just wanted to know that it's okay to try to pertain to other styles despite the initial stamp people give them by glancing at their work.

[Stoat]

There is a style of critique that's more like a fraternity hazing. I ran across a lot of that in art school -- really savage and rude. There are many people who think this is the very best sort of critique; that it rattles you and forces you to step outside your happy place and look at your work with a different eye.

I don't think I learned from harsh critique all that well. I need a little asspat before you tell me where I suck. Afterwards, I tended to spend my energies thinking of imaginative ways of slipping antifreeze into the instructor's coffee without getting caught.

But you're very likely to run into rough critiques many times in your career. Best to learn not to get too rattled by them. It's a style; there may even be some good substance there.

[Illysian]

Unfortunately it's not that it's rough that rattles or upsets me, it's the fact well as I've heard before many can critique but you should aim to help.

I guess I'm just frustrated that despite the effort put into my own sb, how little, and barely trying of critiques i'm getting.

Flame or something so long as it helps me understand what I need to change!!

It's wayyy to easy to say 'Use your pencil more' Or the famous 'Work on your anatomy' Honestly how many times have you heard it?

It's not that I don't need to hear it, it's that it's the only thing I'm hearing, why not something we don't already know?

[enrigo]

I read the post in your sb and I don't really see anything wrong with it, maybe except the "I am mad" opening that is a bit shocking because of misunderstanding.

Believe me, there could be much worse and nonconstructive comments. Although I've never seen much of the worse one in CA.

[Arshes Nei]

It is kind of a hazing and at the same time, if you want this career be prepared for a lot of people telling you that you suck. I mean think about music we listen to today, you think everyone universally agrees on every song? There's always a hater.

I think it's fine to say what's wrong but saying why it is wrong is more helpful, you don't always have to say what's right.

But that's how I feel about critiques in general.

[Crush]

I just wanted to know that it's okay to try to pertain to other styles despite the initial stamp people give them by glancing at their work.

It's okay to draw whatever you want whenever you want and in any way you want. There are some people that have never drawn a thing in their lives and that's fine too.

I definately wouldn't stick to a single style because someone told you to...

[Renegade89]

i still think there was an error in comunication :shrug:

Dunno,but the best/most simple solution imo should have been to give a comment to Camara, send him a pm or a reply in the thread ,like " hey man,i was just wondering, what do you mean with the style thing? did i understood correctly?" you know. straigh up, is simple and effective.

[Illysian]

Aaaahah Sorry people, I was afk for a while--All of your comments are great and useful :P Renegade it doesn't require that sort of info I just had to ask the general public this isn't really about the entirity of camara's comment but a combination of things other than that.

As an artists you all know how it gets especially when learning, so much is thrown at you not only in learning but just the loads of others with their own views around you. Every now and then you just gotta let it out and see what the response is, and that's what today was about.

Not to mention I knew it'd get some comments and maybe some good in depth conversations going since I haven't been able to interact with the CA community very much lately

Thanks a bunch everyone, have a great day

[rpace]

Wow - -I'm pretty sure people coming into this thread are going to do a double-take on the direction it took.

I think the first person I head say that style is the culmination of all the things you can't fix in you work was Frank Kelly Freas. He added that he was disappointed that so many artists started off their careers copying all his mistakes.

Considering the numbers who ape the works of those who came before on their way to becoming their own artists now carry their own mistakes in addition to the learned errors of their predecesors (and their predecesors) we may understand how inbred some pockets of the arts industry have become.

There's a confusing element in this, especially where animation comes into it and several artists have to work in a specific style to maintain project integrity. At this point the ability to copy another style becomes a positive and not something to be denigrated.

The importance of style varies, really. Personal style just develops when you're not trying to be anyone else. This is similar to a writer's "voice". You really only need to develop your voice if you want to say something.

Being able to produce in another artist's style is an indicator of versatility and has potential professional benefits.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Harlan Ellison claims the reason why he gives such precise, unpillowed criticism is that anyone who is really going to be a writer is going to be a writer regardless of how he says it so he better be as honest and clear as he can be.

I lean towards this philosophy sometimes, but I'm increasingly aware that student artists can be a delicate lot. Even the monotone of text on a screen can gain imaginary inflection when read in the wrong frame of mind.

The important thing to always remember: don't panic, just work hard and smart and you'll be fine.

~Richard

[Illysian]

Wowza. I know that's not the most intellectual word to use but I've gotta say that was not only an intelligent view and remark but that I agree sincerely with your signature as well.

Of course I see both of the above as one uniform thing just because your signature fits so well with this topic.

It's a funny thing too, that you mention animation when that's my degree as well and adds to the fact well I might have a voice that my Sketch book shows and that I can't see--But I don't think I have anything really to say (at least not yet) Just thinking about style is a big thing for every artist and I dwell on it just as much as the next worry wart.

I guess to say it so clearly is that I'm still learning (even though I always will be this is the start) but the second some one mentions style I panick. Cartoon or not, real or not, it's all up in the air as much as I will have to be in order to become an animator or even an artist in general for the areas I'm aiming for.

You see a lot of styles around concept but as far as it goes I've been taught the industry wants either a fresh style or something realistic (aka for games for most concept art) With no real predecessor or mentor growing up being a part of CA can be intimidating especially when most won't give the time of day let alone a few rare comments on anatomy and pencils. So it seems looking at that big chunk that perhaps I was panicking at someone pointing out cartoons or being mad because I don't feel I have a voice enough to stand by my cartoonish style.

Other than that I'm not sure where else to go in response to such an intellectual and inspiring post.
Thankkss

[rpace]

Actually, I did the row of tildes (~) to break where I was addressing the thread title from where I was talking about where it drifted. I used to use "*", but I used to run into odd code issues and opted for the sideways S.

If I were to append a personal philosophy in my sig file it'd probably be something like ""No one cares if you can think outside the box if you can't colour inside the lines."

Everyone here should still be approaching art as a student; no matter how far along the road they think they are, they need to accept that the road never ends. Companions for that journey can only be a good thing.

~Richard

[Illysian]

I see now, hah, sorry about that--You're right though perhaps I was just aiming to rustle some bushes around here at least discussion-wise. I've yet to muster up the energy to try out the community activities, besides style, and the situation seemed like perhaps there'd be a variety of people that would respond and that I could learn from.

btw--your artblog is great

[Seedling]

I've been taught the industry wants either a fresh style or something realistic (aka for games for most concept art)

The concept art industry? Nah - they want artists who are A. skilled at communicating ideas as images, quickly, and in variations, and B. they will require artists who can adapt to the style of a project or who can help to develop a particular style, depending on when in the development cycle the artist is hired. When they do hire an artist to help develop a particular style, they will likely want the concept artist to explore multiple possibilities.

Only in rare cases will they hire an artist because "we like your specific style so much that we want to base our entire project on it!" That is only likely to happen with artists who are not only established and successful, but who have stumbled into that rare sliver of territory called "fame".

[Illysian]

Agreed! Sorry I'm at a loss of words atm, XD you caught me while painting. I'm gonna go explore some of your links btw. XD (again sorry for loss of words usually I can say more)

[worxe]

If one person out of six billion or so people on this rock shook you that much, I suggest changing your attitude a bit and how you take peoples advice, just be honest with yourself and stick it out, dont let something that appears negative bring you down if you dont feel its right, look for alternatives or look into the matter for other peoples advice that you can learn from.

[Illysian]

Coughs slightly~ :P Unfortunately (Like Renegade) you didn't seem to catch the parts of long talk where I clearly stated and showed that it wasn't just one person's actions or their words but merely a slosh pot of a lot of things.

My rock's been shaking a lot about a lot it's never going to be about what one person says or does that gets to an any person(artist or not).

If it were I would've started off by talking to the person directly instead of starting a thread in which to talk to others about what's going through my head or their own on a certain subject.

Thank you though =)

[Elwell]

Draw whatever and however the hell you want.

[Illysian]

Lmfao XD I love that response, thanks Elwell.

[Jamie Romoser]

the best way to getting into your own style to to draw and draw till your hands bleed have fun man dont let nay one tell you what you cant draw

[Chris Bennett]

Wow - -I'm pretty sure people coming into this thread are going to do a double-take on the direction it took.

I think the first person I head say that style is the culmination of all the things you can't fix in you work was Frank Kelly Freas. He added that he was disappointed that so many artists started off their careers copying all his mistakes.

Considering the numbers who ape the works of those who came before on their way to becoming their own artists now carry their own mistakes in addition to the learned errors of their predecesors (and their predecesors) we may understand how inbred some pockets of the arts industry have become.

There's a confusing element in this, especially where animation comes into it and several artists have to work in a specific style to maintain project integrity. At this point the ability to copy another style becomes a positive and not something to be denigrated.

The importance of style varies, really. Personal style just develops when you're not trying to be anyone else. This is similar to a writer's "voice". You really only need to develop your voice if you want to say something.

Being able to produce in another artist's style is an indicator of versatility and has potential professional benefits.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Harlan Ellison claims the reason why he gives such precise, unpillowed criticism is that anyone who is really going to be a writer is going to be a writer regardless of how he says it so he better be as honest and clear as he can be.

I lean towards this philosophy sometimes, but I'm increasingly aware that student artists can be a delicate lot. Even the monotone of text on a screen can gain imaginary inflection when read in the wrong frame of mind.

The important thing to always remember: don't panic, just work hard and smart and you'll be fine.

~Richard

That's a lovely post Richard.
There are a couple of thoughts I would like to add.
Style is what makes the work self contained and gives it formal unity, therefore encouraging us to believe in it.
But:
Style is not to be used as an overcoat - it will never fit, doesn't cover you properly and quickly turns into the cheap anorak with the 'Mannerism' logo on the back.
Style is a by-product, a vapour given off by the engine room that is dealing with concrete artistic problems.
In other words, style is the result of the way you solve problems, not the other way around.

[Kian]

Style is a by-product, a vapour given off by the engine room that is dealing with concrete artistic problems.
In other words, style is the result of the way you solve problems, not the other way around.

That basically sums it up for me. Its absolutley bang on.

[rpace]

Very well put, Chris.

I now have this mental image of Scotty in the Artistic Engine Room while I'm working to meet a tight deadline screaming "Captin', the engines they canna take the strain much longer!"

~Richard