A Flln Spade Gathering

[DanJohnCox]

First Assignment!
I wanna get a better idea of your strengths and weaknesses so we're gonna start off with something that isnt entirely basic. but we will come back to this style assignment later to see how much you've learned.
Design a character!
Topic: Rogue Knight
Time: 4 weeks

Okay, simple enough right? Well we're gonna handle this with a certain workflow I've found to be wonderful.
Reference, Sketch, Refine.
I learned of this method from an amazing concept artist from Bioware named Fran Gaulin, hes a wonderful fellow. But the workflow will go like this. You have 4 weeks to complete this character image. So you need to break that time into 3 sections. x # of hours for ref, sketch, and refinement and they need to all be equal amounts of time. but what do they mean?
Reference
This is where i want you to gather reference for your idea. Find some images that inspire you (but only a few from other artists, mainly real images/photos) be it armour designs, historical images, even super old medival paintings showing knights or other folks. whatever gets those ideas flowing. and more over, images you can use to make sure your ideas are visually grounded in reality. so when it comes time to design this character, you have a better understanding of how your armour should look based on reality. but youre not just gonna look at this stuff. youre gonna DRAW it, and be damn deliberate about it too. if you found reference for some ornate armour, i want you to redraw that armour in detail, shading isnt necessary unless its important to the design. if you start to think, god, this is dumb, why am i spending so much time drawing these silly little details? Suck it up! think about the how long it took the person to detail that armour in METAL by hand. so suck it up and get back to drawing. some of these images can take up to an hour or more to draw if they contain enough detail.

Sketch
Here, you will start to put your ideas on paper. at this point, put all your reference away, its time to use your brain now. you will now start putting together ideas. This will be somewhat up to you as to how you decide to handle this. we'll discuss along the way and ill pull of reference for ya on my intentions. but in this stage youll rough out ideas and come to a further conclusion as to what this character will look like. coming up with how this character will look in detail. and planning out the final image to show this idea off.

Refine
Finally, the full concept, finished. The intention here is to make only one image to show this character off. their feelings, life and story all accessible to the viewer if done right. At this point the idea and story are all there, you know type of shot you want, your composition, how the character looks its now just time to make it pretty. and more then just a simple idea. When you come to this phase some new reference may need to be gathered/made so that you can better understand the subject matter and once again ground the drawing in reality better. ill go over this more later when you come closer to that point.

So those are the steps i want you to take when making this Rogue Knight. But there is another caveat to this assignment. I want to push both of you away from your current style of drawing and break old habits of drawing. so for this assignment, find an artist, different from your regular art. and in the reference phase, redraw some of their work. spend no more then 1-2 hours doing that. get an idea of how they handle certain subjects. and try to continue to create you art for this assignment with that artist's style in mind. dont let it hinder or slow you down too much. no answer is wrong but this is just one way to help pull away from your current style and explore more.
And finally, in terms of this character i want you to really explore your ideas for this guy. dont design the first idea that comes into your head as thats most likely pretty cliche. push your ideas further. ill help once again with this along the way. but when i say rogue knight, there is no reason it has to be medieval, or armoured or anything that is initially thought of. i could be, but i dont wanna see a typical knight with black armour. get creative.

you decide your time, but when you gather reference i wanna see 15 images (no more then 20) all pasted into one frame in photoshop. so i can see what youve gathered. also show me your drawn reference. and ill ask for more stuff as we go.

Sometimes i explain stuff badly so please let me know if youre confused about anything. and you have 4 weeks to do this which is ALOT of time. but i'm giving it cause christmas is coming and i dont wanna load you down with work during the holidays..... unless you want me to :) just lemme know what works for you two. now get to it!

[angelo cordon]

first of all, im sooooo excited to get this going! really looking forward to stepping up my game here :D

Reference:

i really do agree on how important references are in anything! not only does it let you start somewhere, but also it takes you where you need to go. i did my research from going through my stock files to google. started by going through a broad search of images that made me think about a rogue knight. i even looked up what rogue really meant on the dictionary and gotten more ideas for visuals. there i refined my searches from armor to thieves to cowgirls to guns and etc. basically one word leads to another to refine my vision and we'll go from there.

studies and more references posted later :)

[DanJohnCox]

very nice stuff dude! cool ass rifle details, i wanna see you study some of those for sure (assuming youre using that style of ornate engravings). theres a big variety here so im not totally sure where you're going with it but im intrigued to see how it goes. nice work so far dude! keep goin!

[angelo cordon]

definitely on the ornate engravings :yum: one of the main words that popped in my head was elegance, and i always thought of antique guns to be this way, especially of the beautiful craftsmanship on those engravings.


didn't really have it in me today, but here are what i pulled off, regardless of working and thinking about this the whole day.


ornate studies: i tried to grasp the basic design flow of this. i figured its all about curves. i thought of art novea, japanese prints of waves, and they all seem to work together. so once in a while, i started to do things from my imagination instead of just referencing off a picture zoomed in 400%.


design tests: my idea of the rogue knight: a rogue knight felt like they're renegades, or vigilantes. almost doing whatever they want to do but they came from some prestigious background, being a knight and all. but because of their nature of adventure everyday, they cant have bulks of metal on them. they have to be able to move when necessary and hide when needed.

also im starting to take this outside of the box in terms of costume design. its not going to be in the middle ages, but more over in a real where old and modern is mixed. hence why i want to have some armour and definately guns and swords/knives.

[angelo cordon]

forgot to attach :

[DanJohnCox]

hold up on starting your design dude. youre still referencing now. unless you plan on spending 1 day on each task you still got more work to do on your studying of the source material.
the engraving studies are a nice start but i want more deliberation on them. there is incredible detail in those designs, and i wanna see you copy it to the letter. seems like too much work for what its worth, but tough luck. spend way more time on those studies. once youre ALL DONE the studies then you can move on into designing. study the design of that theif character and the assassins creed guy too. once again, deliberate studies. make sure you know your material.
so far i dont dig your already designed thief guy. the buckles dont feel purposeful, just designy. i dont dig the hood as it stands. and its clear a better understanding of all those things is needed. get a hood yourself and put it on, take some photos and figure out how hoods can look, how they cover your face and how you can use it to describe this character more. remember, once you finish this stage you wont have anymore reference till the refinement stage. this is to keep you from rehasing already existing ideas. and get you thinking on your own and not relying on otherworks to give you ideas.

keep studying, but im really happy about your excitment. and if i sound harsh at all dont take it personally im just being overly critical. Ive got a smile on the whole time i right this so dont worry :) just keep goin!

[angelo cordon]

im starting to wonder why i picked the references i chose, lol. im frustrated but im also glad about this because i never pushed myself this hard before. it's slowly paying off - doing studies like these.

so for the past two and a half hours, i've been painting metal. or trying to figure out how to make something look like metal based on my reference. i did a lot of experimenting with brushes, as well as experimenting with textures, both of which i've never really done so much before. at one point, i think i might have overdone it so i've pushed a lot of it back.

here is a wip. tomorrow, i will work back on this, as well as the ornaments again and the thief and assassin guy.

any input on how you would tackle a texture study like this? how do you go about making textures in your pieces?



p.s.

be as harsh as you need to be, man. i understand that i am here to learn and i definitely appreciate that you hold back on the sugar coating :) i appreciate you taking your time for this as well, as i too have school and a job and family and friends. this definitely time consuming, so thank you again for stepping up to the plate and mentoring :)

[DanJohnCox]

that study is lookin very nice dude! in terms of how to get a metal texture, youve got it there. metal often has a larger range for value. meaning it can go from pure black to white more then say, a matte surface like the cloth in your image. keeping in mind metal reflects its scenery more then the matte surface as well. meaning if you put black cloth and a shiny black piece of metal in a white room with a little light. the metal will reflect the white of the room significantly more then then cloth. likely turning it to more of a grey whereas the cloth will remain much darker in contrast.
this of course changes as the surface becomes more matte or glossy. and ill get into the specifics of those things later.
as for how to get the dirt in there properly my suggestion is this. build up your surface first, assuming its clean and nice. just worry about the shape and form first. then add the dirt on a seperate layer keeping in mind where the dirt , grime and scratches most likely occur (ie, dirt often collects in crevices and in corners where as scratches remain mostly on larger areas and dont often occur in cracks.)
but those are smaller rendering details. and very important, but youve got some double trouble here. making a surface look like the proper surface is important, but so is making sure the object looks like the proper object. its my preference that you focus on that right now more then rendering. but if you feel you have time for both then go at it. but be aware of the structure of this object and how deliberate its design is. try and examine why the plates are spaced as they are and notice how those simple 3 lines in the hand plates create some variation between the hand and wrist. while also uniting the hand and knuckles. and the curves between the metal plates where the lines are. notice how they keep that same style curve in the hand and the wrist section and knuckles and fingers. the curve is very similar all throughout. making a very believable design is a mixture of variety and repetition. variety is easy, but meaningful and subtle repetition is much harder.

try and look for that in your further studies, and maybe focus on elements of design for now.

also, have you heard anything from flln?

[DanJohnCox]

actually, ive just decided too. for now id prefer if you do your studies simply in black and white. you can move to colour for the end of the sketch phase and refinement stage. but for now id like for you to simply focus on form, function, and design.
its more boring but youll focus your learning better this way.

[angelo cordon]

hey man:

thanks for the tip. sorry no updates for now, been really busy with the holidays. i just need to get through this week and ill be back on track again.

cheers,
spade

[angelo cordon]

some progress...

havent heard from flln, myself :wtf:

[angelo cordon]

hey blinky:

whats going on man, hope the holidays is finding you well. im currently out of town right now visiting family, but i brought my laptop and sketchbook to continue my studies.

i will scan some stuff tomorrow to post it. in the mean time, because of the holidays i was getting worried that i might not finish this in time. so i had to write out a schedule for me to keep track of my progress. :

Rogue Knight Progress Schedule


Due Date: January 13



Reference Phase (current - 12/29)

+ assassin guy
+ thief guy
+ metal gauntlet study
+ yoshitaka amano study




Sketch Phase (12/30 - 1/5)






Refine Phase (1/6 - 12/13)

[DanJohnCox]

right on, your time line looks good
and its awesome that youve realized your timeline needs to be set up.
and of course it depends on the person but becareful of datelines like that. as it may look like youre giving even amounts of time to each part but with a setup like that you may not have give each part the proper time you actually need for it.

if you feel up to it, give this a shot. plan out your time in hours. this is actually how we do this at work. we plan out all the things we need to do, and specify the time we need for each piece (rough ideas for weapon A, refined weapon A ideas, orthos for weapon A) each task is then given a certain amount of hours it would take to complete said task. usually giving extra cushion hours in case something goes wrong (and something will).
so setting up your schedule like this might be better
reference
Dates ___ - ___
hours ___
this way you're more aware of the time youre spending on it. plus you can be sure youre spending the proper time on each task when having to cross out hours.
its real hard at this time to figure out how many hours you should or need to put into this. and thats totally understandable. so be reasonable with yourself, dont overload the hours just to look cool or impress. if you think you can only honestly give 2 hours to this for a week thats fine. not enough time to do something proper at all. but acknowledge that and see what you can do with the time available. but make sure you DO those 2 hours and do them HARD. this way you can clearly see what time you need to spend on something to get it to a quality level you like and how long it takes you to do something well. this is for you, not me.
but knowing exactly how long something takes you to make will do you amazingly with employers, especially those who pay hourly.

give it a shot, and remember, you will most likely misjudge the amount of time you need for this in someway. which is fine, its a guideline which you can use to learn from.

[angelo cordon]

hey blinky :


this isnt really working as well as i would like it to be. unfortunately because of the holiday break, im stuck back at my parents house and i cant get their scanner to work and my laptop is just not liking photoshop anymore. anyways, in order to keep on progressing, and i understand that it wold be hard without you seeing how im doing, im wondering if you could possibly start talking more about the sketching phase of the project.

i want to know how this process works. so while im trying to hunt down on a way to make things work, i can still know how to move foreward.

happy holidays :)

spade

[DanJohnCox]

Sorry for the issues youre runnning into dude!

but deal, ill give you some thoughts on the sketching part.
Sketching

In this section you'll now take the visual information youve gathered from the previous step and start developing your ideas on paper. keep it rough and fast to start. think about the basics first, who is this guy, whats he do, hows he do it, how did he come to this point, etc. answering questions like that can help you understand your character better. but when you answer those questions, often think of how you'll show that through your image.

example: A friend of mine had designed a pretty basic samurai character. there was nothing overly unique about him and i didnt get any sense of who this guy was at all. nothing in the expression, stance, or clothing spoke of who this guy was other then hes a samurai. but apparently he was also a ronin, a rouge samurai (heh... i actually didnt plan this to be so similar). I talked to him about that issue and suggested as one idea, that some of his armour be built out of the samurai masks of other samurai's hes killed. this one element spurred loads of ideas about who this character was. with that type of armour set up you can see this man kills alot of people, not only that he prides himself on it and displays them as trophies and uses the dead as a shield in a way. thus the design takes a drastic turn, the face can become more hardened and cold the pose more aggresive and so forth.
but dont forget, with that same design choice we can change the character's feelings on those elements. what if they ARENT trophies but in fact reminders to the man so he will never forget the ones he killed. also a deterrent for others so he can avoid more bloodshed. this man hates battle but is forced into it, thus why he is now a ronin. once again this changes how the character looks physically and in his clothing.

those are the things to think about now, and relay those ideas through your sketches, keep them simple to start. silhouettes are great to start making many simple drawings to push your imagination and move away from the cliches into potentially new territory. after you come closer to a design you like best, start honing in on the details. give several of the character designs a more refined treatment. nothing crazy but with detail inside the silhouettes. then take one of those designs and start figuring out the further details with that. how everything will connect, look and feel. doing closeup clothing studies and making sure you know the details youll have to show in the final image. also sketching out how the final image will look. the pose, expression, possible lighting, composition are things youll have to plan here as well. for the final image you need something that tells a story about this character, otherwise all this previous thought is for nothing if no one can see that thought.

finally, dont get TOO engrossed in thinking about the character's background. this is a visual study and your time is limited. use your gut instincts and make sure you spend the most time drawing not writing background info. this is a drawing, not a novel.

heres some great early design sketches i like. from basic to more finished sketches.

[Fllnfalcon]

well I know I'm a little behind here. My family and i went on a good month long tour of Iowa to catch up with family. Been a while since I've been able to get on. With no scanner, and only a few places where internet was actually set up it was a bit hard to get on.

With a little under 10 days to get this done I'll do my best to keep up. all the same looking forward to this

spent a couple of hours looking for reference already and this is what i've found, not so much as red but I figure i've gotta play a bit of catch up.

[DanJohnCox]

cool images dude! and good to see ya show up! now go fast! youll have an extra 7 days for this tho since yer late. now do what spade is doing and come up with a timeline! stat! :P

[Fllnfalcon]

again appologies for the late start/disapearance. but been working. a quick armored glove sketch.

I can't say I feel comfortable with painting like Red seems to be. I've never really had any formal painting technique training or the like. All i've ever really been able to do is cell shading. but for now, here be what I am comfortable with.


And thanks for the extra time

reference (current - 1/9)

-steam punk
-High fantasy
-sci-fiction
-studies (helms, gloves, chests, weapons)

sketch (1/9- 1/13)

refine ( 1/13 - 1/20)

[angelo cordon]

flln!!! great to see you alive, man!

well, i guess we're off to a running start here. i like the reference/inspiration pictures you picked out. you have a strong sense of what direction you're going to do. good gauntlet study as well. my real critique is drawing the lines. i always stress the importance of smooth strong lines, meaning, dont feather your lines!!

[DanJohnCox]

great, and dont worry about being late dude family stuff comes up its no problem.

and i totally agree with spade on your lines. one of the best things you can start doing is getting confidence with your lines. as a concept artist you need to make every line count cause you need to get shit done FAST. doing one line 6 times slows you down more then you may think.
but this is also something im still working on personally. Marko and Coro and andrew jones however are huge on that. they PUSH that you put down just 1 line as often as possible. and if youve seen marko's dvd you can see how that pays off, hes fast as hell! more over confidence can sell an image quite a bit!
my suggestion is that you learn to do a few things. draw lighter for one, and work at getting more confidence in your art. youre quite when you feel you know what youre doing. but when youre unsure it becomes obvious due to your insecure lines. try doing some simple lines describing the big shapes and proportions, very very lightly. even try holding your hand further from the pencil and dont be concerned with how this part looks, go with the flow. then come in darker and confidently to solidify the forms.
also, i want you to be more deliberate in your study. theres several spots where i can see you just glanced at the image and drew what you figured was there. the base of the gauntlet in particular, much of the elegant sweep youve lost or neglected. and the direction of the etching in the trim there doesnt follow the proper direction and theres not nearly as many in the reference as in your drawing. this is totally nitpicky i know but thats whats telling me youre not totally focused on the image or youre rushing it. take your time. also, be aware of the proportions in the gauntlet, your wrist there is much smaller then the original. which means youre losing the bulk design in the real gauntlet. if you finish a study and something feels wrong, trace the source image and compare. youll see many of the errors you made before.

your head is telling you one thing about what youre drawing and your eyes, another. stop listening to your head for now, just make sure youre putting down what you see.

[angelo cordon]

here are my shape studies. mostly, my problem was that it was taking me forever to make one. below are some notes about this:


+ this really did take me two days to make, which is absurd for silhouettes. i think its because i did these in photoshop instead of using a brush pen or markers which in the past, i can bust out plenty in a short period of time. i was having a hard time being gestural with a wacom tablet, maybe it is just a phase that i can eventually get over with.

+ not so much on a real background story, but i really held on to the ideas of being a rogue knight. over each shape, my ideas started to evolve and i let the drawings explain to me their own stories and i just helped bring that out more. i kept on coming back to simplistic designs because of the idea that this person WAS a knight, however he doesnt really have the luxury of being one anymore.

+ to speed things up, i just made a template shape and copied and paste it to add more things to it. this helped speed things up, but also i will also have to be aware of not getting stuck in its particular shape.

+ other than that, i've also experimented with other possiblities in terms of stories. such as zombie knights out in revenge or demonized rogued knights.

[DanJohnCox]

this is a really great start man! dont worry about the speed so much for now. that will come with time. slow and steady is better then just speeding through and not understanding.

now for crits, you did real good here but maybe worried and flustered about details in some spots too much, such as rendering and faces. for now, you can pretty much ignore those faces you nicely rendered. they're rather non essential at this point unless its a real focal point.

now this is just my method for doing this stuff quickly, youll find your own way in time. so just a suggestion. dont worry about shading for now or even lighting. blocks of tone to seperate stuff is all ya need. main reason? stuff doesnt need to make perfect sense now, just interesting shapes and forms. without lighting you can focus more on the shapes and design, one less thing to occupy your mind which is important right now. which is the reason why i prefer to not do this stage in significant perspective, one less thing to worry about.

try focusing on the shape right now, just silhouette. lets your head wander more before you start thinking about the inside. in my example below, my big preference is the pure silhouette because it lets my mind wander more then my crappy first attempt at adding an interior. further attempts would prove useful but the first is cliche and not interesting. as per usual for most people. our first attempts are the things we're comfortable with. Also, this is just personally, i work with a hard %100 opacity brush to do that stuff because i often find it easier and faster to just do something and live with the results and move on. the more you do it the better the rest will be.

SO! i dunno if youve moved on yet but if not, i dotted the guys i like the most and find the most interesting. take them and do 4 more PURELY silhouettes of each them (also feel free to NOT use any of my choices and all your own but at pick 2-3 different dudes). expanding on the shapes you made. make them more exaggerated or subdue them, whatever you feel. but expand upon what you made, even if you make it totally different, thats fine too. to assist your form building, find a picture of someone in a pose you like online, and trace their shape and build your shapes on top of that. that way you have the proper proportion already done for you and a cool pose to work with.
After that, pick your fav or ask me then start roughing out the inside. in pencil or otherwise. the easiest option is to work straight from your already made silhouettes. also keep these rough and simple. let your mind wander as you make them, dont worry about making something that doesnt make sense, just make interesting forms that compliment the silhouette. your best bet here is to no longer change the silhouette.

also, im sorry i didnt say something super quick, i really liked what you did so i just wanted you to move on but didnt say so. my bad, but from now on, if you dont hear from me immediately, assume i like it and move on. I wont tell you to throw out what youve moved on to so you only waste time waiting for me. and due to the wait, id be fine with extending the deadline if you want. thats a non issue. and if you HAVE moved on, simply keep what ive said in mind for later. and lemme see where youre at.

good stuff dude!

[Fllnfalcon]

okay again sorry for my absence, started ski instruction this weekend, and we don't have access to the net up at the pass.

seriously hunbled by red work though, awsome stuff man.

I didn't sit idle though. I managed to do quite a few reference pages using both the images I've shown and other images I've found from the "spectrum" art collections.

I got a couple of my better reference pages that i did here. tried to keep the lines solid and not feather so much, but I kept slipping back into the habit.

Finally a little early cause I mixed up the dates i schedualed, I started sketching today. I have about 3 pages of skrribles I did looking at poses and general shapes. I spent no more than 5 minutes on each except for one which I was just having alot of fun with (you can probably figure out which one it is). I plan on taking 6-8 of them (about half) and work through them in a bit more detail.

[DanJohnCox]

ref looks good

as for the sketches, be careful about worrying so much about poses. in these sketches 80% of the design choice i see here is pose. thats all good and well but make sure you're looking at the design of this guy as a whole before going into any detail. most of these folks look like people with shoulder armour/helmet and underwear.

your speed on it is good 5 minutes is great. but i'm gonna pull you back a little and i want you to pick 4 of those characters (or more, thats fine) and take them into photoshop and deal PURELY with their silhouette. its important for you to understand this concept so do a minimum of 3 silhouette studies of each of this people. do em fast too, no need to pretty stuff.

[angelo cordon]

hey guys:


im still alive. sorry for not posting, first week of school is really kicking my ass. i just need to get through this week and get used to my new schedule so i can do all the things i need to do. that said, i dont think i would be able to make the due date. ive been keeping up with the readings, but in terms of work, not so much. so thanks for the crits and ill post my works soon!

just want it to be on the record that i really do still want to do this!!

[DanJohnCox]

GOOD! makes me heart happy to know you're enjoy this at least!

Flln? what about you? whered you go?

[Fllnfalcon]

I'm still here, and still working. I'm enjoying this greatly and am looking forward to more. I have a bunch more stuff to show, been working on it, pretty much throwing out all the poses, and working from a basic standing pose for the sillouetes, I'll follow up on the poses again probably at a later date.

I'll get them uploaded as soon as possible but my scanner is officially dead. I'll be getting a new one over the weekend, so i should be able to get the stuff up by monday.

[angelo cordon]

hey man:

so here is what i have worked with today. out of all of them, i have picked the one on with the red dot and will continue this further. my next step is to find a picture with a cool pose and turn that into a shape adding details from the shape that i picked.

im definitely starting to see the importance of this step. even though it took me long to get through it, it shows a much more developed and stronger idea. it looks so much cooler than my first initial sketch :
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1572631&postcount=5

still, i would love to hear your opinion blinky. im going to move on with what i picked but would like to hear what you wouldve picked and why. can you tell me which of my shapes work or why they dont work?

[angelo cordon]

flln:

those are good studies man. i dig the concepts! your line work is slowly getting better. keep at it! i would agree with blinky too, these are all just poses (although they're dynamic). anyways, hope to see more work soon!

best,
spade

[Fllnfalcon]

Alright finally back and with a crappy ass scanner but one that works.

I did a few silouettes, and did a couple of sketches off them when I was bored during class.

I followed one up alot as i was enjoying his design, even if his pose is a little lacking.

I'm not sure which one i want to do as I want to follow up on alot of them. But i guess I gotta choose quickly.

[DanJohnCox]

redspade:
great progress! your shapes so far are looking much better. theyre pretty much all good. but work on stuff like the one on the second row, last character. with a basic idea like this, try and add more to make this silhouette unique such as building up the physique. make his shoulders bigger and head smaller to show off bulk if you want a brawny look. or change the armour shape more to add a bit to his shape. thats the only one i would complain about since is silhouette tells me the least.

now my choice is the guy next to yours. although i like your choice too! i like the neck guard, its unique, as well as his arm armour. theres asymmetry and he looks interesting to me. i like the shoulder guard as well. a little more thought needs to be given later to unify all those elements on both those characters but so far i like them. my main issue is the boots, they're boring, and in the case of your choice character they dont seem to fit. he seems very tribal and those boots are very olde english if im not mistaken. so change that up. and maybe build off of that tribal feel i get from the hair. also, dont use buckles unless it fits. straps, okay, but if this guy IS tribal at all, buckles dont work. and right now they dont work. and see about breaking his shape up a little more. just an example of what i mean with the picture below.

keep it goin! awesome progress

[DanJohnCox]

flln: also great progress! due to time, i think you can go and stick with the mecha dude you drew out. hes interesting and youve already put a bunch of thought into the design. as for the silhouettes, i like the angel looking thing with the four spikes the most. but its still kinda cliche.

which brings me to the biggest problem i have here, cliche. this mech dude feels like an anime inspired mech with pointless design choices abound. the cables seem to serve no purpose and dont fit with the rest of the design (it would work better if there were similar cables visible tightly running underneath the amour.) they make for good change in his silhouette but otherwise they need to make more sense. think about their use too and try and make that apparent. do they cool him? or are they like hydrolics, giving him more strength?

the staff runs into the same issue. its just an interesting enough staff, but then the beam pattern at the back is seemingly random, i dont see how that shape could come out of the back of that staff or where. remeber that form follows function, not the other way around. often when looking at something you can tell what it should do. simple example, a butter knife and a combat/hunting knife.
http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/M9%20bayonet_%20military%20knife_%20hunting%20kniv es_118.jpg
http://lapelpinplanet.com/media2/img/catalog/CC122-Butter_Knife.jpg

the butter knife is smooth and curved and is not meant to cut most anything but butter. however sometimes youll see a serrated edge, showing you its more capable of cutting more. however the purpose of the combat knife is clear, stabbing (the sharp point) and cutting (the scary sharp ass edge). theres no other clear purpose to this blade. it even looks like a tiny sword with its fuller (ie, blood groove, wikipedia it). the fuller could be functional but could also be to make it look like a sword, helping with intimidation as well.

very clear function to those weapons. so think about your character and who built it and what for. and start showing some more function in the design.

also, the dreads are interesting for silhouette but kinda cliche as well. but most importantly, i dont get an idea of this character's, character. it seems like a robot cyborg, but i dont yet see how knight fits in. or rogue. i need something more from the design to give me that feel. maybe some design choices that are reminiscent of medieval knights or something that shows me he rebelled from his previous alliance or that hes a theif or something. is he a brutal killer or a sneaky assassin (keeping in mind the "knight" part)

keep in mind if you want to pull away creatively from the rouge knight title. you still need to make sure the title fits in some way.

but great progress man, i'm being nitpicky and specific but youre doing good. I just wanna pull you away from being too anime inspired because i see too many anime designs that are just nonsensical. some work, but most dont. but thats just my opinon, im sure some would disagree but keep it up dude!

[Fllnfalcon]

no that's great I'll keep working with him then. I understand the thing about cliche too. Most of his design was done while bored during speech class so I wasn't quite thinking about function, and more "oh hey that would keep me awake a bit longer if i drew this"

but yeah. I totally understand what you're saying. I had one last idea that i was working on, but since the deadline is 2 days away I'll run with this one and work out the others in my free time.

[angelo cordon]

lol so i realize that this stuff was suppose to be done five days ago...

sorry blinky that this is slower than we expected. i think what it is is that im just learning the workflow. looking back at all of this, i totally couldve done this within a week given that if this is the only thing im concentrating on. one day spent on looking inspiration and 2 days at the most developing inspiration. but kind of goes against what you mentioned before about spending the equal amount on each process... how important is the time spent on them?

anyways, i think the next one will definitely be more on time and more on track.


so im in my last two quarters of art school. and no internships so far. any tips on how you handled your last year blinky?


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/theredshoe/new-sillouettes.jpg

[angelo cordon]

also at what point do i stop doing shapes? can i pick the best one out of the three now? what do i draw now?

[DanJohnCox]

good good! dont worry about the time for now. im gonna push deadlines more later and i'm gonna come down like a sonovabitch if they arent met. but for this one ive decided we can keep it a little slower. and deadlines arent being met now anyways :P

with these studies i wanted you to think further about whats inside the big black silhouette. these drawings are much more simple and still more ambiguous then i wanted. no biggie, im not sure i made the step clear enough.

anyways, my favorite was the first dude of the 3. that doesnt mean you should do him, i just like his contrasts of european style armour with tribal stuff.

but thats also my issue here. its a sketch so i dont know if its intentional or not but got me thinkin. when i looked at that one i saw the knight inspiration, and the tribal inspiration. but theyre so seperated it wont work. if you ever intend on combining elements from different cultures, remember to make sure they mesh believably.

so i did a paintover of that dude to illustrate my point. the idea i had behind this guy is that he was exiled from his homeland where he was a knight. travelled far and found a tribe which took him in. and became part of that tribe, infusing his old knowledge of blacksmithing with his new materials. making his new suit of armour with both old and new.

another possibility would be if he still kept parts of his old armour. imagine what would happen over time with that armour. he would need to build his own, but would also need to repair his old armour. how would he do it? how could you show that?

also, this design was quick without much thought. and i decided he would still dress mostly in the same way he would have when he was a real knight. you could decide to have him only keep elements of his old way and take on a new role as a hunter for the tribe. with less empahsis on covering the whole body with protection.

i dont like the design i made btw, it was my first stab at the idea and needs more refinement and thought. think about that as you move forward, my initial idea is pretty plain, and more quick attempts at a design would improve this greatly. you dont have to do anything im suggesting, im just trying to get you thinking. go forward with whatever design you feel most comfortable with, theyre all good. and start drawing the dude. but, this is important do alot of designs! and make them quick okay? dont make them look nice for me, this is for YOU to come up with a better idea of how he looks. they can all look like shite, but if you dont make a bunch of them then youre missing out. your first 3 attempts are the tip of the iceberg of your imagination. doodle shit about his armour, how it might look and so on. and make loads of quick ones and if you like the nasty scribble you made, go further. hell dont even show me the scribbles if you dont want. but MAKE them! when you ONLY make slow, deliberate stuff you dont give yourself time to explore your choices. so go further now and start firming up the design. as for how far to go? fllnfalcon's design is a good gauge. his is VERY clean, you dont need to be that clean. id rather you scribble his those lines then worry about them being clean like that. but go with your gut instincts, if YOU understand whats going on then great.


as for internships, i dunno what to say. what are you giving companies? whats your portfolio? and if you have one, keep updating it as often as possible and whenever you do, send it back out again. thats how i got my job. i musta sent my stuff to them... 4 times or so, each time with something new. AND i had an inside source, not a great one but a source none the less. so yeah keep looking and sending them stuff. sometimes places just arent looking for people when you send something. so send more again later. its lame advice but all i can suggest :P personally im looking for freelance work on the side and having a real hard time so dont get down! it happens to all of us.

[Fllnfalcon]

okay as with red I know this is really really late and while not finished I atleast wanted to show that I am working on it.

I hit a point in time where i felt like my inspiration for this had gone downt he toliet, I left and worked on a couple other things just to get my mind rolling again. BUt when I came back to it I still felt like my inspiration for it was in the toilet. So not sure if I should continue it it kinda feels a bit forced now.

[DanJohnCox]

i understand loss of inspiration, it sucks and drains the life out of you when drawing. shitty drawing after shitty drawing really sucks. but honestly, what ive found is that slowing down and giving myself time to stop on something rarely does me loads of good. a fresh look at something is great but sometimes you gotta learn how to just push through. i dunno how your personal life is going, if thats a problem and youre really stressed about outside stuff then do what you can. but if your stress is coming from this? suck it up!

youll have hundreds of chances to lose inspiration and quit for a bit. but not this time. youve got it in you to create right now, but you arent equipped to deal with stuff art block or lack of abilty to create what you imagine. i ran into this at work for a good month. first task i was given was to design cars. ive never drawn cars in my life honestly and ive been so used to drawing people, my technical perspective work had done down the shitter. plus ive always sucked at drawing mechincal stuff.

but i was forced to, and i sucked and i worked badly and pretty slowly for the first entire week, coming to grips with making believable, fictional cars. by the time i moved onto a different task, i was much better at pumping out vehicles. most all of them still suck? hell yes. but its only cause i had to keep working at it that i got better. shit like that i had NO inspiration for but now i have better tools in my head to deal with those hard times. and in time, you will too. youve already got them, thats how you were able to push through and make this image at all. now keep pushing!

and try spending less time and love on these images. keep em small and quick till you start feeling more confident about the design. try doing detail studies of the parts. what goes where, how it attaches. it can be brief but sometimes they're fun to do and can get you thinking clearly about what those pieces are. draw them at different angles too so you understand the shape. this is important so that you know for sure and dont have to make changes while in the final. back studies are also important and very often ignored. if you wanna work on games or film these are super important so that you dont have a dude that looks cool from the front, but sucks at different angles.

but this last note is for both of you

i feel like a bit of a twat, nitpicking in long ass posts every drawing you put forward. SO im gonna suggest smaller, broader changes from now until the end. keep posting your progress and ill stop pointing out silly little details as i think this is holding you guys back and stifling your creativity. im super happy with what you guys have done so far so just keep making stuff and ill give you a full ass critique at the end. k? ive given as many thoughts as i can on the sketch phase and the final is mostly about composition, lighting, and rendering. so go and have fun guys, dont worry about my opinon, this IS for you after all, not me. and dont forget that.

[Fllnfalcon]

I wanna apologize for my disapearance again, school's kicked into high gear and so i've had very little time to actually work on anything but school work. I restarted on my sketch though and I think fcound a much better composition to tell the story i want. 'll see if I can get the sketch up when i get home. it's still really rough though so it still has alot of work to go.

[DanJohnCox]

kk, if ya can tho, post it. i'd like to see where you're at in terms of your ideas and their development. i wont critique it but id like to see the thought process. so even if its illegible i wanna see!

and spade, whered ya go dude?

[angelo cordon]

annnndddd im back. sorry for not being around guys. school is really kicking my ass. a little update on that: i just finished midterms, just started an internship, working on a couple of sequential pages for my comic book club, all at the same time, trying to make time to draw for myself. which is surprisingly hard to find at this time in my life. i havent even updated my own sketchbook :(

so here are my final silhouettes! otherwise, i will go for another two months just making them. i realized that i wasnt doing anything with any of the shapes that ive made. i kept on making them and making them and there was no real direction. finally, i went back to one of the shapes, and took it from there, keeping in mind what would make sense with this character.


ive decided to drop the tribal thing, as it will be too hard to show the rouge or the knight part without conjuring up a whole world behind it or writing a story for him. i want to show a character that will get the point across right away with typing up a story.


but alas, here's one anyways!! after doing looking at this guy (the one with the red dot), i thought, he is out on a vengeance, hence the cloak. he was a knight, therefore the bits and peices of his armor, although, he just has what he needs. also, to keep repetitions in design as well. if i was a knight, and i became rogue, why bother with the whole tunic that has the symbol that i represent? well, this guy's team of other knights was betrayed and he's the only one left, therefore he is keeping the symbol as 1. it is his own individual identity and 2. to honor his dead comrades. also to let people know that he exists, to inflict fear. kind of like a medieval batman, i suppose.


so yah. well this project is two months overdue. and its time to get it cracking again. thanks for the support blinky! hope we havent been really wasting your time.

best,
spade

[DanJohnCox]

ha! nice to see an update spade!
I understand that school kicks peoples asses. myself personally couldnt have done this while i was in my post grad course. i wanted to focus on school too much. so i understand.

as for the design, i like the idea and this looks good! I also really like the idea of a medieval "batman", instilling fear type figure. that kind of idea could get put to use really well in the final image. most shots from batman begins would be great inspiration for that image.

so go ahead and further the design, whats his face look like, helmet and figure out those details now that youve got a more solid idea of how he looks as a whole. i'd love to see you take that fear aspect and push it to make this guy really intimidating. but thats all up to how you expect this guy to deal with his issues. so when you can, try and figure it out.

moreover, dont be too sad, this is actually only 1 month overdue :P

lastly, since you guys are both busy as all get out i wondered if you would like some new shorter assignments to deal with. something with less bulk so you dont have some extra stress, such as anatomy or 3d stuff. or would you just like to continue with this assignment till its done since youve already started.
lemme know here or in a PM.

[Fllnfalcon]

Hey yeah I'm back too, just getting finished with some school work. I'm sorry It's taken me so long to get the image up, but I'm working on it still, all be it slowly.

As for shorter assignments, that would probably be good.

[angelo cordon]

i think a shorter assignment is a very good idea right now. maybe excercises that would contribute to skills we could later use for bigger assignments.

[DanJohnCox]

I'm still around guys, and I'll give you some smaller assignments then! However I would like to hear what you'd be interested in. Something that can help your school work might be best since it can work into your current work better.
So lemme know what you might want, anatomy stuff, colour theory (not exactly my strongest suit mind you but it wouldn't hurt for me to brush up on it and learn more for ya), environment or technical design stuff or even some 3d?

if you dont pick anything I might just go with anatomy or 3d since its easier to teach in smaller doses. mind you i might combine those two ;)

and sorry about the delay in response. This was supposed to happen 2 weeks ago but my studio's project was suddenly canceled and they didn't have the funds to continue so they laid off 85% of the staff. just looking for more work now!

[angelo cordon]

sorry about your studio man, im sure it was an awesome run though. + now you have a notch under your belt and a foot in the door towards concept design.


might i suggest a series of smaller assignments that will develop to a bigger project? for example, i really want to start doing some environmental works, so maybe we can break down the process so it doesn't feel as overwhelming.

like assignment 1: do some references. due date: blah blah blah.

assignment 2: do silhouette, due date: something something

assignment 3: refine! due date: ksahdja

and so on.


i realize that this is exactly what we were doing before. but i think that having a due date on each step will help it not become so overwhelming. basically, i want to treat each process as smaller assignments.