(UPDATED)Attention LA artist: Plagiarism and printing.

[Bomba]

I just received a very disturbing email from a good friend. He was visiting the LA area and found a postcard with my image on it. I was never contacted, the postcard never gave me credit, and I never gave permission to use any images.

If anybody is out there in LA, could you please lend me a helping hand and gather some of these postcards? I am considering taking action against them in efforts to protect myself and other aritsts that they might rip off in the future. It's a club called 'Perversion'. Perversion is open every Thursday night at The Ruby - 7070 Hollywood Boulevard (between La Brea & Highland).

I am not against the club or club go'ers.... I am against those whom feel it is ok to plagiarize other artists and expect to get away with it. If anybody has dealt with this before, I could definitely use help and advice.

Also, if anyone can get your hands on one of the postcards, please PM me so I can give you my contact info.

One last thing... for those of you whom like to keep your work safe on the net...make sure to keep your images small and non-printable. I sure have learned my lesson. It's a shame.

Original Image:
http://www.jasonfelix.com/art_galleries/digital/x2life_speaker.jpg

They slightly modified the image and printed this with no permission and no credit to me:
http://www.jasonfelix.com/art_galleries/digital/felix_postcard.jpg

[LiL QoH]

You don't want to go after the club, but rather the graphic designer or company that made the flyer and or the promoters of the event. I know a lot of promoters in the LA area I'll look into it for you. Also I do believe I have a flyer of something else of yours, I didn't know if you comissioned it or not. It was a picture of a girl with parts of her face coming off, I'm looking for it on your website now if I find it and is in fect yours I will give you the name of the promoters and the company that made the flyers

[Bomba]

LiL QoH---> Thank you so much. I agree with you 100%. It's not the club that I am after.

[LiL QoH]

I edited my last post and threw some more stuff in there about another incident of your art work being used on rave/club flyers. I more than likely get these peoples contact info for you

[darkcult]

That kind of behaviour sucks big time!
:mad:
Go get them Bomba!!!

[krayz]

When I used to club a few years ago I'd see Vallejo's work on flyers that were handed out. I always wondered how they got permission and how much it must've cost. Now I know...

Hope you get the culprits and make em pay! Good luck.

[Bomba]

Originally posted by krayz
When I used to club a few years ago I'd see Vallejo's work on flyers that were handed out. I always wondered how they got permission and how much it must've cost. Now I know...

Hope you get the culprits and make em pay! Good luck. This whole situation would not have bothered me if they contacted me and said 'Hey...we cannot pay you, but we will give you credit, print your website address, and give you some good ol' fashion promotional push.'

[Marko Djurdjevic]

Shit man,

I'm sorry that things are hitting you now.

Marko
-who's worried about the stealing of art lately

[Kisa]

let us know how it turns out.

[MoMusumefan21]

Exaclty why i am very hesitant to post up my newest concepts, ideas and character concepts intell i have full copyrights, so in case someone DOES use my work with out premission someday, i can sue the sh!t out of them! ;)

[rimwalker]

Argh, I hate stories like this.

I hope you can get this all straightened out Bomba. I rooting for you. :chug:

[Bomba]

Kisa---> I will for sure.
rimwalker---> Thanks, I appreciate it:-)
MoMusumefan21---> I totally agree with you about that. What you see on my site is only 1/8 of the work that I have stored at home. I have tons of original character concepts, creature concepts, stories, etc.... all of them I am keeping hidden until I can copyright,TM, and protect them correctly.

Most creatives in the industry tell me not to post stuff that I care about. So I usually post works that have either been published OR are securily protected by large corporations.

[chukw]

I'll keep my eyes peeled (ouch!) There is an artist involved in this skullduggery- they skillfully manipulated your work. I'd being quite interested in meeting this person! :mad: All the images on my site are kept too small to jack for just this sad reason... Well, it's flattrey, at least! :)

[Elwell]

There's no reason to wait to copyright stuff. Actually, strictly speaking everything is copyrighted on creation, but you have to register it if you want complete legal protection. As a matter of fact, it's cheaper to do it with unpublished work, as you can register multiple unpublished images as a collection on one form for a single fee.

More information at the Copyright Office FAQ (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-register.html).

(Edit: the proceeding applies to US copyrights only, of course.)

[fukifino]

That's pretty retarded. Not only are those people ripping off your work, but by stealing other peoples art, they are also potentially denying local artists a chance at getting their work seen. If they had actually contacted you about using your image and you said no, at least they might have tried to find someone else (probably local and less well known to save money) to do some art for them. It's a lose/lose situation for the artists. Plus, the person who made that flyer is probably billing himself out as a graphic artist to these promoters, when all he's really capable of is stealing other peoples work.

Overall, it's pretty stupid, and it's a damn shame it had to happen. Luckily you found out. Hopefully something will be able to be done aobut it.

And Elwell is correct. As far as US law is concerned...it's a copyright. It's your right to have your creations protected (for a certain, and sadly ever increasing length of time). You don't NEED to register in order to be protected. Registering just places your work in the timeline with an unbiased agency, and makes it easier to pursue infringers.

[Elwell]

Originally posted by fukifino
And Elwell is correct. As far as US law is concerned...it's a copyright. It's your right to have your creations protected (for a certain, and sadly ever increasing length of time). You don't NEED to register in order to be protected. Registering just places your work in the timeline with an unbiased agency, and makes it easier to pursue infringers.

All true. But you do have to register a piece in order to sue, and if the registration happens after the infringement you can only collect actual damages. If the work was already registered, however, you are entitled to punative damages, which can be a lot more.

[fukifino]

Originally posted by Elwell


All true. But you do have to register a piece in order to sue, and if the registration happens after the infringement you can only collect actual damages. If the work was already registered, however, you are entitled to punative damages, which can be a lot more.

Ahh. Thanks for the clarification. :)

[MoMusumefan21]

MoMusumefan21---> I totally agree with you about that. What you see on my site is only 1/8 of the work that I have stored at home. I have tons of original character concepts, creature concepts, stories, etc.... all of them I am keeping hidden until I can copyright,TM, and protect them correctly.

Thats good. I have heard so many stories of people making a cool idea, posting it at a site. Then the very next day or a few days later someone else comes up with a idea "just like" the one the person made.
I have heard you should also take "progress" shots of your incompleted hand work. If someone someday claims your work theirs, you can prove its yours if you have the incompleted versions and pics of you drawing the real thing by hand.

btw, all the work i posted up here has been in contest before and has won some place. Their are records and pictures of the pics in contest location and some in the Art Musuem. just a little added secarity :chug:

[feels]

I don't know if you checked this website out yet but I think this is the official website of "Perversion"

http://www.evilclubempire.com/perversion/news.html

But I don't think they put any contact information on that site...

[c0g]

Hey, at least they have good taste ;). Well good taste in the artwork they like. Not good taste in what they did. I hope you get them.:evilbat:

[madphill]

after looking at the flyers on their site it looks like a lot of people have been ripped off. The subject matter is a lot alike, but stylistically different which is why I think that. Also, I had always heard that "technically" apon creation of a piece the artist is the true owner, and you CAN sue without copyright? Can anyone find a source on this to prove or disprove? I'm very curious also.

[NOOSE]

What a huge load of $#!^....I now some people who are "GRAFIC ARTISTS" or GRAFIC DESIGNERS, and went to art college and the works, they couldnt draw a stick man to save their lives, I had asked one of them who "was a friend "if they ever needed an artist who can draw or paint, and he explained that their was no need for such an artist in his line of work , if a customer came in and wanted a picture of a dragon for his part of his company logo, he would search the internet and find one that suited his needs then with filters and other photoshop manipulations he "said" he can make it look far enough from the origional that a law suit
would never happen, I was pissed! ...he also said that at one of the design courses he took the instructor suggested this type of "thievery" as a means to get a project done if you cant find an artist.

I met another younger fellow in the same buisness who was over looking my doodles in a coffee shop I frequent, and told me its sad that an artist like myself is pretty much obsolete, what with the all the tools availagle now to people who arnt artisticly inclined.

This ticked me off because the only work I could get that I realy enjoyed was drawing and designing logos and tattoos,


and the capper was...
that x friend of mine that I mentioned at the start of this rant lol and i ran into some nice girls that were intrested in getting some tattoos custome designed and I piped up "hey I can draw those!" and then that no talent hack says "Ya but Im the professional artist!, I have the certificates went to school and work for a print shop" I cooled down and 2 hours later headed out to the store to buy some sugar for his gas tank.

I guess my side tracked point is that people who can create art have no reason to steal art. so why do so many wanabe art guys get hired over natural talent?

[Lunatique]

Hey Jason.

It sucks to get your stuff ripped off. It happens all the time to most of us, and to post only small images of your work on the site is an issue that you need to think over.

1)The people that really want to steal, will do it no matter what. If you post small images, they can just blow it up with Genuine Fractals or other similar software/plugins. If they want it, they want it. If that's the case, why sell your work short by giving visitors a tiny image that doesn't show enough of the detail and all the hardwork you put into the images?

2)The type of the people who use images without permission will go on doing it--if it's not yours, it's someone else's. The point is, people like that never intended to pay for what they use in the first place, so you gotta ask yourself--WHAT is it that you are losing anyway? In the case of someone claiming that he/she did the work is a different case--since that's fraud. But, if your image is used without getting credit, it's kinda like it doesn't matter because no one knows who the artist is anyway.

3)I'd think your presence and the presentation of your website is more important than these idiots taking your images. Don't let them influence how large you want to present your images on the site--I don't think it's worth it.

BTW, I've got good news bro: http://www.eatpoo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15972&highlight=

[Bomba]

Thanks 2 everyone for the replies and understanding of the situation.

And this thread brought up a very good point of understanding how Copyrights and TM work. Legally and the ability to protect yourself. I am definitely going back and re-reading everything about Copyright/TM.

NOOSE---> That is some scary stuff. Really messed up!!! Damn... I am rather speechless. And your X-friend sounded like a poser. Chump.

feels---> Thanks for the site. I have been searching the internet for their contact info. A phone number, but nothing yet.

MoMusumefan21---> You raise a very interesting conversation. I too have heard stories about peoples ideas/concepts getting taken. As far as I recall, if they manipulate an image/idea by %60....it is theirs. Another interesting fact is if you ever apply to ILM, they make you sign a waver saying that 'Everything in your portfolio is usable and they will not pay you for it'. Well, their waver does not say those exact words, but you do sign away all rights to your work. In some cases, submitted portfolio pieces HAVE been used. I know of 1 person who had this happen to him.

fukifino---> You are so damn right. I totally agree with you... so even IF they used my image, I am denied the exposure and it just plains sucks.

Elwell---> I did not know that in order to sue, you MUST have your work regisitered. Well.. I better get started. Thanks for the link:-)

Lunatique---> It's been awhile man. Good to hear from you. I agree with you about making the images smaller. Right now, the images are pretty damn small and hide tons of details. At this moment, I am trying to get into showing my artwork in galleries around the US and the world. If that happens, then everyone can come see the originals with all their glory and details. So far, I have my first gallery show right here in San Francisco. October 17th. Anybody in the area should come!!!

And CONGRATS man about the short film....that is totally awesome! You really amaze me. Let me know if you ever need an animator:-) Would be more than happy to live overseas:D

[Elwell]

For more info on copyright registration, especially as applied to illustration and other visual work, go here (http://www.illustratorspartnership.org/06_resources/index.html) and click on the "copyrights" link to the left.

[Killer Napkins]

those sons of bitches .. im gonna track them down and rip there frekin faces off then freakin eat their faces!!!! :mad:

[WildSpruceMoose]

Damn plagerism sucks :/ Best of luck in actions you choose to pursue ;)

[Lunatique]

Originally posted by Bomba
Let me know if you ever need an animator:-) Would be more than happy to live overseas:D

Fuck yeah. What's Olivia gonna say? If you're serious, drop me an email, and we'll talk details.

[NOOSE]

Bomba it would be cool if you could post any hints about chEAP copyright or anything to help pretect our art that u come across on your searches here in this thread,

That ILM waver signing thing kind of sucks, except I think if I had a chance to get on with ILM I would sign my first born child away,....jokeing...kind of...

[Bomba]

Originally posted by NOOSE
Bomba it would be cool if you could post any hints about chEAP copyright or anything to help pretect our art that u come across on your searches here in this thread

Elwell posted some really great links that talks about how to protect yourself. Read his postings above and follow his links. Everything is right here in the thread.

[Fisa]

Originally posted by madphill
after looking at the flyers on their site it looks like a lot of people have been ripped off. The subject matter is a lot alike, but stylistically different which is why I think that. Also, I had always heard that "technically" apon creation of a piece the artist is the true owner, and you CAN sue without copyright? Can anyone find a source on this to prove or disprove? I'm very curious also.

actually some of those images have been with that weekly for a longtime. the top 3 in particular. i remember them from 5-6 years ago. anyhow with that amount of time in between, i can't imagine that all of those flyer were "created" by the same person. those on the website are mostly linedrawings.
the stolen one is not.

i've worked on flyers for parties/weeklies before. some people choose to be lazy and grab images from the net and use them directly. i have always found this to not be the right way to go about doing it.

perhaps Bomba if you put some sort of message indicating people need permission to use your artwork on your homepage and to email you, you will be able to find your culprit because they will come to you.

[Bomba]

Originally posted by Fisa
perhaps Bomba if you put some sort of message indicating people need permission to use your artwork on your homepage and to email you, you will be able to find your culprit because they will come to you.
You know what? I always thought that I had some sort of disclaimer about this....people needing permission and the such. The only thing that I have posted about protection is this:

All contents copyright (c) 2003
Jason Felix unless specified

You are definitely right. I need to add some text that states:

All images are copyright 2003 Jason Felix
No images may be copied or reproduced without the permission of Jason Felix.

Thanks Fisa. Just never dawned on me...just always assumed it was on my site. Gah.
-J-

[Lunatique]

Jas, you gotta clean out your Private Meassage Inbox--it's full and I can't send a reply. LOL!

[Howdy]

I would like to offer a thought. I imagine that type of people that are club goers are not too interested in the internet or computers. In their minds, they need an image and go find one. If someone needs a picture of a da vinci, they get one without thinking da vinci is being cheated somehow.

I do not want to excuse their behavior, I want to point out that they probably have no clue why people might be upset. Sort of like those Kazaa people being busted that didn't believe it was wrong to download songs.

It saddens me to see artists talk about posting small works. I do not come around so much lately because I felt the postings had changed character since the first time I came. There are not so many professianal, awe inspiring works now. I wonder if the issue in this thread is the reason why.

I think artists are going to have to come to terms with this idea somehow. That the internet allows people to use their works without permission. There could be bars in russia, china, africa and south america using your images without your permission.

Does that really hurt you? A small bar in china using your image? Is it worth getting riled up? Or denying yourself the pleasure of sharing your work, in all it's glory, with others?

From out here in regular people land, I would say that most people do not have a clue who you are. The exposure that results from having your image on the flyer should be a reward. People might see the image and begin to look for the artist. These same people, club goers, would never spend club time, searching the internet for pretty pictures or skilled artists. They would never ever hear about you at all.

[bbwolf]

Image theft fer party-flyers happens all over the world. Sometimes even "real" painting artists copy another one in style directly to get jobs.

Is it just me or are there changes regarding the theft of conceptwork fer portfolies in order to get jobs and now this pic theft?
Did our stats change thatfor from artistic matches to martial ones? (not that I am objektive to the title "Swordsman", yeeeah, coool)

I agree on the thought that some of these folks don´t even know what they´re doing. Once I saw a flyer in my hometown using the image of a dear friend living 600km away. He had no idea whatsoever. So I went to the party and confronted the responsible guys. In my book the ones setting up the party, cause they gave the order for the flyer. I get the reply like:"I thouht he lives in Hamburg. How can it bothers him if we used his pic down here?" I managed to tell em that it´s not the fact they didn´t pay fer it but the offense off not even being asked, not even name mentioning and stuff. I mean, we´re interested in getting our work out and known. Who off the folks who saw the flyer last year and asking me this year if I do work fer them know I didn´t get paied last year?


For the copyright story, in germany you can get a cheaper, light version fer protecting yer stuff. Putt about 30 smaller but good quality images on a big sheet off paper, go to a notar and he makes you a signed, dated and certified copy which prooves that you created and owned the image before the date off blabla.


Oh, and the current pic on perversion is for all I know an italien girl who get that big backpiece back in the middle off the 90´s. Wrote a book over the expierence beeing transformed into a zebre. I doubt that she knows about her engagement in ca.


That´s about it fellow warriors of the fine arts.


Wolf

[NOOSE]

I have to just say that, just because these people may not know what they are doing is wrong, doesnt mean that their ignorance should be tolerated! or ignored, we let a few of these people go ahead and use, distribute and or sell OUR art without permission or for crying out loud not even give a credit?(or in this case freely ALTER the image) then what?...more and more people and companies will just asume they can do this when ever want. it might become the "norm".

I get tired of the whole "you may have created it. but it belongs to everyone" attitude, This kind of thing DIRECTLY ties to the downloading music without paying. just because its right infront of your nose and no ones looking doesnt mean its yours to take....Its just another form of internet LOOTING. I mean realy. Im sure those mothers that steal someone elses child because they cant have one of their own, dont think what they have done is wrong!...so does this mean they should get away with what they have done,.... and the REAL PARENT should just feel "FLATTERD"? that they chose their child to kidnap???????

I didnt and I am shure most of the artists on this site dont invest long hard ours hunched or a computer or pad of paper,
just make art for the sheer purpose of seeing it freely distributed without pay or credit so that those of us that arnt locked into a nice position at a big company can return to our crappy paying 9-5 job serving burgers or cleaning toilets!

At the UPMOST VERY LEAST!! the person stealing the art should ask the artist for permission before they go ahead and steal it anyhow, so the artist can at least enjoy the very faint dull warmth of a feeling that someone somewere is enjoying their hard work.

And I realy do feel that anyone who doesnt give a CRAP about weather someone is using and making a profit or taking credit for their art, is most likely the same kind of person who uses someone elses art in their portfolio to get a job at a major game developing company.....because,...hey why not its only artwork, it doesnt hurt anyone.

[Patch]

I'm not good enough for people to want to use my work without my permission. I do, however, hope that you give them hell Bomba (the postcard 'designers' that is). In fact, I only have one contact in the LA area who might be of any influence (or assistance) but I am firing off an email to him right now. Hope it helps.

[DragonGX]

man that sucks. I hate it when people do that.

[Cryo]

I think every flyer ive ever seen from any club is usualy a rip from someones artwork or photography. They think as the distribution is going to be so small that no one will see it and take the risk. When ever I put something on the web, I make sure the image is not very large and compressed to the max. Mind you saying that anyone with good photoshop skills could still rip you off. In the end its just keeping those eyes open for fraudsters.

[Fuchs]

I live in LA and might be able to take a trip down to Hwood this weekend, if you would like I could go to the club and talk to the manager and find out who made that flier. This just sucks man!

[NOOSE]

Thats the spirit Fuchs!, Bomba maybe you can get credit or payment for the next batch or something?! strike a deal!

[Jucas]

First off, copyright on creative works is based soley on the creation of a work/piece. You do not need to register the copyright with anyone.

Second, it is absolute bullshit that they didn't know what they were doing, somebody conciously altered his original image!

-J

[Bomba]

Howdy---> I see your point. Exposure. Yes, exposure is something that is desired. But, how can I recieve exposure when I am not given any credit? Where does one start? Exactly... it's like finding a needle in the haystack.

Is it worth getting riled up? Hell yes. If every artist would put up with such behavior(regardless of how small or big), then we would all be starving and broke. Part of the Pleasure of sharing the work is getting payed and given due credit.

NOOSE---> I agree with you 100! And that is why I started this thread in the first place. To anyone who is out there that sees anybody's work from this forum printed or used without permission...speak up. We can make a difference.

Fuchs---> That would be awesome. I would definitely appreaciate any and all help. Seriously. Please let me know if you find anything out:-)

To everyone else---> Thanks for listening and being supportive. I am honored to be a part of this community known as 'Concept Art'.

[NOOSE]

hopefully if everyone reads this that attends this foum we can start nailing some of this fraud and Plagiarism , if we see one of our own getting ripped off please report it!... it is reasuring to me to see all the support and offers to help Bomba.

I dont know if this has been brought up before or not yet, but the group of musitions I play with always burn new song to discs and mail them back to one of us(depending on creator) and keep it sealed so that the postdate may help in proving we made the song before that date, would this work for art Im curiouse?

[ilkka]

that really sucks!!
also good protection is use your own "stamp"
up on image..

[Bomba]

Hello everyone,

Well I have some good news thus far. I sent an email to the club owner explaining the situation. And he has replied offer his apology and a possible solution.

So. Right now we are discussion the possibilities of doing some major promotion for my works at their clubs. Flyer and a possible gallery exhibit. In return I will receive given credit and exposure. Plus, with a gallery exhibit, that could generate some possible sales.

Ontop of that, he informed me that they are taking measures to make sure that grabbing artwork off the net without permission is prohibited.

I prefer this type of resolution rather than involving lawyers. So things are going in the right direction.

Thanks again everyone!!! Once we have reached an agreement in the near future, I will make sure to post the results!
-J-

[Kortez]

Cool! I'm glad that this worked out :)

[NOOSE]

Wicked guy! this is totaly like an 80`s movie ending! lol do let us know the outcome and congrads

[Elwell]

Congratulations! That is good news. It also speaks well of your professionalism and good sense that you were able to take a potentially unpleasant situation and turn it into something that benefits not only yourself, but all artists.
:chug:

[Phalanx3D]

Yes Noose, that works. It's an old school approach that can be attacked if it ever goes to court but if you have a more developed version of the trhing in question, then you usually win. So movie scripts, books, pieces of artwork, anything that is created and can be mailed can be protected (again somewhat) by that method.

-p3d

[NOOSE]

Phalanx3D- thank you for the info! :) that is great to know!

[Fuchs]

Oh good, that saves me a trip... though my Girl Freidn liked the idea of going to a weird S and M type club, now what do I do??!!

[Fipse]

Hi Bomba,

good to see everything turned out fine for you. I was following this thread with interest because I´m just building my own website (Not that I suppose there would be anything worth stealing ;)). I decided for myself I will just put a recognizable signature to my pics and make them as big as I intended. As I am working with photomanipulation a lot I know that theres no really secure way to hinder people using your work in print if they intend to. But i think there are not many other ways as efficient to spread your resume and portfolio as a website.

Good luck with the oncoming exhibition!

Fipse

Fuchs: Just go, it can be fun - even if I suppose the club is more or less a goth one. Develop your darker side - it can be good for your art :evilbat: !

[jilted_one]

Man that sucks, think of it this way they stole from you and now its their turn for something to be stolen from them and it ain't gonna be pretty, as karma has it mate 'what to do is what you get'.