Funny...you don't look Zorbatikish... (Due December 15, 2007)

[Ilaekae]

Funny...you don't look Zorbatikish...
(Due December 15, 2007)

I thought we'd do something fun this time...and definitely a little strange...

Nobody would be surprised if I pointed to the Mona Lisa, Seedling and a picture of somebody's kid sister and said, "Those are all human females." It's a given. They don't look alike, but there are certain things that make them recognizable as all from the same species, but DIFFERENT individuals. We'd never mistake one for the other.

There are times when i wonder if we really recognize how easy (and bad) it is to CREATE a female face (or a male face) that looks just like the last ten we did. Most of us catch ourselves doing it at some point, and correct in some fashion--different hair style, slight changes in the nose, eyes, chin, lips, that kind of thing.

But then we do something just a bit stupid, especially on a forum full of people who specialize in creating "non-human" creatures for the games and entertainment industries--we create a bunch of "aliens" that all look exactly alike for some of our illustrations. That's not right...these weird guys are just as different among themselves as we are. They know they're all Zorbatik, for example, but this one is Fred, that one is Stymie, and that one over there is dirty old Uncle George. They all look just a bit different...just like humans in a group.

For your assignment, we're all going to draw some faces. To keep it simple, they can all be full face, looking right at us. You can use any media you want, black & white or color, but do them ALL the with the same media, and about the same size, maybe lined up like a chart, or in clusters...whatever you feel comfortable with.

We will need the following:

TEN (10) FEMALE faces that are human, but all different enough to be recognized as individuals WITHOUT going to extremes (like having three eyes or something dumb like that). We want REAL GURLZ!

TEN (10) MALE faces that are human, as above.

and...

TEN (10) ALIEN/"MONSTER" faces that are all in the same species, BUT obviously subtly different enough for the average viewer to recognize as individuals.

That's a total of 30 faces. They don't have to be major masterpieces, and preferably not be three feet high each, but they should be big enough and just detailed enough for us to recognize the differences--I'm thinking somewhere between 2" and 4" high max.

This should be fairly easy to do, but it might surprise you when you get up around face Number 7 or 8, so walk around a bit and check out your neighbors, some magazines, and that green thing living on your roof.

Good luck. :P

[Jason Rainville]

I think I'll hop on for this one :)

One question: use ref, don't use ref, or use whatever the hell you want?

[HunterKiller_]

This maybe an unwise move, but I have to disagree with some of what ye old cat has said.

Specifically, about the differing alien faces.
Let me ask you this. How many of you can readily individualize a group of lemurs? Or baboons? Or naked mole rats?
That's right, most of us can't do that, because we as adults no longer hold the capacity to differentiate between the subtle facial alterations of another species.

The ability to recognize the faces of others species long ago withered away with our infancy.
I could write an essay explaining this, so I'll keep it short.

We are able to readily tell apart the faces of one another because we're surrounded by humans all the time, we've learned to pick apart the subtle structural variations of our fellow homo sapiens.

Ever heard of white guys complaining about Asians looking all the same? Chances, they aren't trying to be racist, it's very well that could lack the ability to differentiate. Why? Simply because they would've never encountered Asians in their youth.

I'll return the previous point about animals. It's a perfect example.
Animals of a single species generally look the same to us, that's a given, so the idea of a foreign species all looking generally identical, is not really such an absurd one.

I do believe that rendering individualized characters of an alien species is artistically awesome, which makes my argument completely irrelevant.
Have a nice day. :)

[enrigo]

Hmm... there might be some tricks to make distinguish alien faces, but what if:

TEN (10) WOOKIE faces that are all subtly different enough for the average non-Star Wars geek viewer to recognize as individuals. :mittenbop:

[Seedling]

Ever heard of white guys complaining about Asians looking all the same?

The only people I've ever heard say this are white folk who don't have any Asian friends.

Ilaekae, this is a wonderful assignment!

[Smoke]

I might join this, never actually tried to paint a face before so it'll be hard D:

Are we allowed to use ref?

[realitychek]

So people can join in on lessons in the Classroom for All I take it then? If so I'm in on this one- great assignment! :)
and HunterKiller,
granted one would find it difficult to see the differences between individuals in a group of (like you said) lemurs, except for color patterns and all- but these are creatures, not characters, or living things in humanoid form. Movie example- in The Lord of the Rings, there are differences between all of the orcs, and you can tell that one is definitely different than the next but that they are all part of a particular group or race.

[Ilaekae]

I'm a firm believer in reference. Anyone who tells you never to use it for any reason is an asshole. Does that make my point clear enough? :P

Hunterkiller, disagreement makes my day. I live for it. Your points are well spoken, but I don't necessarily agree with you...

The inability to tell one individual from another because of nationality or skin color is racist bullshit, no matter how you twist it (AND I'm not applying this to you, but to the "people" you mention in passing). Strangely, I can tell one cat from another, and one horse from another. It's not all that hard--just careful observation.

In the context of the assignment, the "aliens" are probably sentient beings which can be derived from my description and intro comments. Even if that isn't obvious, there is no specific statement to prevent/eliminate any creature with a brain in its head, or a personality, from being our alien. As the creator of those "aliens," it's up to the artist to define the differences between those individual members of that "alien" group, which CAN be done in any number of ways. Telling me that the average person can't tell the difference between a fat alien and a skinny alien, or two of different ages, or by markings/ornament (Should I mention that we BLAND humans wear glasses, tattooes, different hair styles, makeup, clothing, different beard styles, and even come in different colors/styles/etc.?) would give me the impression that you consider the average viewer a real mushroom as far as brain-power is concerned.

Now, that leaves me in a bit of a quandry... You state that you disagree with me. On what? That we can actually come up with ten more-or-less-subtle variations of a non-human species? The people who work at Pixar, Massive Black and Disney might have something to say about that. Or George Lucas. Or shouldn't we worry about those idiots? Afterall, it's not like any of us here will ever be in a position to work for someone like them, will it? :P:P:P:P

[enrigo]

That's the good ol' :ilaekae:

But I think HunterKiller got a point there, I've never seen a monster/alien that looks creature-ish and yet have distinct characteristic from each other. I'm sure a humanoid alien would be easier compare to a monster creature, or maybe I'm just lack in imagination. /m\

[Ilaekae]

Actually, enrigo, remember that you're in charge of what the "base" creature looks like, whether humanoid alien or "monster," so it's up to you to decide what the differing characteristics would be. The could be as simple as scars, the shape of a "hair" ruff, broken teeth, or as subtle as an arrangement of spots or scales. And that doesn't touch the fact that even somebody as dumb as me can tell the difference between a skinny earthworm and a fat one, just for starters... :P:P:P


Oh...should I metion our SMILIE collection? :yayca:

[HunterKiller_]

As I said, I totally agree with characterizing individuals in a group, and good way to do that is with external factors, such the hair and broken teeth or scars you've mentioned.

What I was trying to say is that the facial structures of a supposed alien group would look more or less unvaried to an average human being, unless these aliens had humanoid faces, of course.

It's easy to think that yes, we would easily recognize the difference, but once again, that's because we're so accustomed to other humans.

You say you can tell the differences between horses?
You're saying that if a slide show was set up with a hundred different horse faces, you would be able to tell me the differences that separate each and every single one of them as if they were humans?

Just to reiterate, I'm totally down with customizing individuals artistically, but I just wanted to share this scientific point of view, because I believe in function before form.

Oh and I just remembered a quirky fact. A lot of people had trouble differentiating Megatron and Starscream in the recent movie. ;)

[Ilaekae]

"You say you can tell the differences between horses?"

Yes. About twenty of them, from the faces alone. They all belong to friends and my wife. It's not really that hard. And i'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between about 45 or so cats and name them, but only if I was pushed to it--I'd probably blow at least 10 of them because I haven't seen them since they were kittens.

"You're saying that if a slide show was set up with a hundred different horse faces, you would be able to tell me the differences that separate each and every single one of them as if they were humans?"

Now this is a completely different matter. I'm assuming these are 100 horses I never saw before? If so, I couldn't ID one from another as a specific horse (as in this is George, that's fred...) just as I couldn't tell 100 16-year-old brunette cheerleaders apart, and for the same reason. I don't know them.

But...if you're implying that I could not identify the 100 horses (or 100 cheerleaders for that matter) as being different from each other by pointing out various identifiable idiosyncracies between them in just a few seconds of study each, you're barking up a rather shaky tree.

The average artist (or doctor, or in some cases, the average observant police officer) can easily tell any number of individuals apart or they shouldn't be doing what they do for a living. And if you want some verification, identical twins not only run in my family, but i dated two different sets of ABSOLUTELY identical twins over my wasted life and never once had a single ID problem from day one with any of them, no matter how hard they tried to confuse me sometimes as a game... Want their names? (They might be a bit old for you, since they'd be between 55 and 65 about now... :P)

"Just to reiterate, I'm totally down with customizing individuals artistically, but I just wanted to share this scientific point of view, because I believe in function before form."

Kind of lost me here. I do appreciate your sharing the scientific view, since I'm a firm believer in learning things, but I'm not quite sure how we got to "function before form" in this conversation...(also a big believer in that concept, which is why I'm a bit puzzled...)

"Oh and I just remembered a quirky fact. A lot of people had trouble differentiating Megatron and Starscream in the recent movie."

Y'completely lost me here. I... don't know who Megatron or Starscream are.... A flaw in my education, probably... :P

[delectro99]

Since I'm guessing (and hoping) that we can just jump on the bandwagon for this Classroom for all... I'm In... now I just need to fix my scanner ^^;

[Ilaekae]

Go for it, Bubba! :P

[HunterKiller_]

Y'completely lost me here. I... don't know who Megatron or Starscream are.... A flaw in my education, probably... :P

Y - You... Wha?! But you are supposed to know them! You must've been... well I dunno, in you prime years when these guys were bustin' up the cartoon scene.

Nevertheless, I shall attempt to channel the necessary information into your aged gray matter at the speed of light via the incredible modern technology known as the internet.
GO!

[Rabbi Satan]

I'd love to jump on this, but Ilaekae, could you give us some pointers as to what differentiates male from female faces? From the information I gathered, the female faces have "softer" edges (Which are hard for me to understand...), smaller, less wide chin, higher eyebrows - Anything else you can add there? I don't think its so much the features I am having trouble with, but the shape of the face itself and its contours.

But in anycase, this is something I definitely need to practice.

[Seedling]

i dated two different sets of ABSOLUTELY identical twins . . .

Did you date just one of each twin pair, or did you date both at once? Details, man! ;)

[Asatira]

This looks like fun. A cool challenge. I can do the humans pretty easily, either from ref or from my head. Doing an alien will be a challenge because I've never tried one. I'm intimidated by the idea of doing aliens (and any number of other sci-fi and fantasy creatures :rolleyes: )

[Ilaekae]

"Did you date just one of each twin pair, or did you date both at once? Details, man! "

Bean Sprout, you are SUUUUCCCHHH a perv... Actually, the details are lost in the mists of history...sadly... :P (...or not so sadly, since I just remembered that one set tried to kill me with a broken beer bottle and a chrome-plated .22...)

Rabbi', females have a layer of subcutaneous fat (THAT'S FAT! FAT, Seedling...) that tends to smooth out the bone structure to a high degree, so females are smoother and softer-looking in the face (and other places), so when you draw a female face, the less detail like obvious "in-and-out" shadows and wrinkles, the better. Younger females have a tendency to look more childlike than males because of this. Their skin is smoother overall, and there are definite differences (but very slight) in the bone structure that add to this effect. Less of a brow ridge, smaller features (noses, chins, jaws, etc.). This doesn't mean that all females are this obviously different. Some will have noses and jaws that may be larger than some males, but they do look less obvious because of the smoothing of that fat (FAT!) layer...

Their bone structure overall tends to be a bit lighter because they don't need it as anchorage for the heavy muscle tissue that males have. That's why some lighter-built males look "effeminite" to some degree to most people.

The smaller build also exagerates the eyes, making them look larger, as does the female trait of wearing makeup to enhance this affect. The absence of an obvious "heavy" bone structure in the face (due mostly to the layer of fat again) and weak brow ridge also tends to make the eyes look larger, and the eyebrows higher (no deep eye sockets in shadow like the classic Marvel glowering male...)

Overall, the shape (outline) of the face is a bit smoother, with fewer "hard" bone points standing out. Sadly for some overly self-conscious professional models, this also means that their high cheekbones aren't really there, so they have their rear teeth removed to exagerate the little jaw/high cheekbone look.

[Seedling]

I'm a fat perv! I'm going to go cry into my second lunch now! ;)

[Ilaekae]

Did I say you were fat? Did I? I said you were a...smooth...perv... Yeah! And that plate of burgers looks good...got another one? :yum: :yum:

Hunter', "You must've been... well I dunno, in you prime years when these guys were bustin' up the cartoon scene." If they came out when I think they did, I was too busy staying drunk and trying to get laid to watch TV then. That's probably why I missed the whole thing... (These are called Transformers, right?)

[enrigo]

Here's a typical episode of Transformer so you can get a better idea,

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/108378/Optimus_Prime_Gets_Prostate_Cancer_Robot_Chicken.h tml

(From Robot Chicken)

[arttorney]

If people won't be able to tell them apart, then drawing them as individuals of a specific species can't do any harm, can it? People will just see them as the species.

Here's what I think is a powerful value of the practice though: All the aliens looking the same will be just fine if they get blown away within a second or two whenever they appear (e.g. Aliens). If they are going to be protagonists and communicate with humans it will be important for people to have visual cues. Otherwise, When King Moxmograt tells our hero to summon Figmort and Glub for a secret council of the elders, the audience will be like :wtf: . Giving secondary characters a personality can only take you so far in a two hour movie because you don't have time to get into detailed characterization for everybody. Give one of them a nose piercing and the other a bad hairdo.

[ElementalMist]

This should be interesting, I just gave a lecture to one of my friends on how all her characters are the same exact person with a new outfit and pose... Time to put my money (hopefully not foot) where my mouth is.

As far as the alien faces go, I keep thinking of Babylon 5, (Centauri, Narn, Minbari...) but then again, they are humanesque aliens.

[Seedling]

As an example of how relevant this assignment, just think of the movie A Bug’s Life. Every importsnt ant in the movie was recognizably an individual, despite all being ants.

[alesoun]

There you go, Boss Cat; ten males,- some from imagination, some from memory, some from ref.....
256943

all different. I'll work on the females and post them here when I'm done.

257857

Guess who's never tried to draw aliens before? Top row are males, bottom row females.....

258211

[kingcoyote]

Another great assignment! Hopefully, I can scrape a couple of minutes together to do this one, but it doesn't look hopeful.

I thought the transformers example was a good one, and grabbed some images of those two characters (both classic, AND the mentioned redesigns from the film) I thought these were good, because they do hold up as part of a group, or species, or whatever and as individuals. I think the main thing to remember is that there are rules about what makes things a species (or group), and that as long as those rules hold up, the details are what makes us individuals.

Another example is magazines (or hell, even TV shows). An issue of Guns & Ammo, (or an episode of Happy Days) is set up just like all the others using something called a style guide. But the content is different. Most of us can tell within a few moments (or seconds between channel flips) not only what show is on, but whether we've seen it before. The human brain is extremely adept at picking up, interpreting, catagorizing and defining patterns. This includes differences in individuals.

Hopefully, I didn't overstep my bounds here.

[edgaronfo]

Hello Everybody,

I want to hop-in into this "Classroom for All" (it's too bad I didn't know about it before!), I hope I can meet the challenge.

[TimV]

I usually have the opposite problem... no matter how many times I try to draw the same face, it always ends up looking different. I suck at drawing faces, but I'm getting better thanks to Loomis' books.

Kidding aside, it was really cool to draw these faces looking for what made them unique and identifiable. Here's my first whack at the guys. I'll post the gals and the aliens when I get those done.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make my scans look better. Does anyone have any tips?

[alesoun]

Updated with women's faces.

[JonZ_]

can we use existant monsters/aliens? I play Halo and some Sci Fi **** lately and got me inspired to do some Covenants.

[alesoun]

Updated again. Never drawn an alien, so I used Korky the Cat as a base norm (with a few tweaks).

[enrigo]

Here's my 10 male heads, used some references and some made up ones:

(The bottom left one is suppose to be Ilaekae, my attempt to brown nose the teacher, heh heh) :asslick:

[edgaronfo]

Here are my 10 male faces
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs24/i/2007/346/2/e/10_male_faces_by_edgaronfo.jpg

[Rabbi Satan]

Here are my 3 sets of faces. Sorry for the crap quality, I really tried - I had a hard time with this exercise.

[Seedling]

Hi everyone! I just got word that Ilaekae’s modem had a collision with a falling ladder, resulting in small plastic bits and no internet access. He sends his apologies and says he will be back just as soon as the new modem arrives. In the mean time, I can try to fill in for him, even though his shoes are two sizes too large and have an interesting odor.

Let me go have a look at what you’ve been up to. . .

[Rabbi Satan]

Ah, no wonder - Thanks for informing us Seedling :) I sent Ilaekae a PM or two several days ago, to no avail, so either he ran away with a Scottish Redhead from the nether regions of the 607th layer of Baator, or he died. Hm, I love it when my fantasies run amok :D.

Thanks for filling in :)

The one that I had most problem with was the female faces, I couldn't get the features and the shape of the head to convey an effeminate effect. That and I'm crap at drawing faces, never had good practice with it. O_o

[Seedling]

Ten women, ten men, and ten other! Sounds like fun. :) Personally, I’m inclined to go stylistic with this assignment. That is, I’m inclined to see facial features pushed a bit in the direction of caricature. Not necessarily in the “ha-ha that’s a dorky picture of you at the carnival” caricature, but caricature in the sense of identifying the most importing landmarks of an individual’s face and then exaggerating those features.

With illustrated human faces, caricature can come in a range of exaggeration, from grossly distorted political figures on one end of the spectrum, to the exaggerated Adam’s apples of Norman Rockwell’s otherwise realistic figures.

With aliens, I think the best examples can be found in animated movies that feature multiples of a single type of animal. I had already mentioned the ants in A Bug’s Life; other examples would be the dalmatian puppies in 101 Dalmatians, the penguins in Happy Feet, and the rats in Ratatouille. If you haven't seen one of these movies, then go! See one! :)

I’ll be back later with comments on what you’ve drawn. . . (there’s only so much I can play here during work hours.)

[ElementalMist]

Wow, modem down, sucky. I have actually had a very similar issues with a modem. Right now the issue is however my scanner. We are not feeling the love, when we get along better, I will post mine. =^_^=

[enrigo]

I've been looking at World of Warcraft character creation in the game, it really gives me some interesting idea on how to create a monster-ish character. (But I ended up grinding levels for a few hours so it doesn't seems to worth it that much. LOL) :lounge:

[Seedling]

Alesoun – nice work! I do see something rather consistently across all three kinds of your faces: there is a tendency for the distances between the specific facial features to be all the same. For example, on the humans, the distance between bottom-of-the-nose and mid-lips is slightly less than the distance from mid-lip to chin. So even though you have successfully drawn different ages and ethnic groups, there is still a look among the humans that they are all in the same family.

Among the Korky critters, that sameness of proportion is making the assignment hard for you, because it leaves you with nothing but cosmetic details to use to tell the critters apart. But comparing the first one to the last one, you do seem to already be slowly breaking yourself out of the mold. :)

TimV – Looking good so far. I do see some similarities: most of them have widow’s peaks, and several have the same slight smile. :) Keep going!

JonZ – I think it would be best if you made up your own alien, but if you’re particularly excited about someone else’s design, go ahead.

Enrigo - Ilaekae’s going to get a chuckle out of that. :) These are looking good! Keep going!

Egaronfo – Welcome to CA! These are looking good. There’s a certain roundness of the face that they all share, and in some cases the facial features are leaning a bit too far to the iconic side, meaning that instead of an individual’s specific eye, you’ve drawn more of the idealized symbol of an eye. But overall these are pretty unique. Keep up the good work!

Rabbi – I can see you are working hard at this. :) You are headed the right direction, but I think your faces could benefit by developing them further. It seems as if line control is getting in your way. Try drawing with very, very light lines, that can be easily erased. But don’t erase them. Let the light scribbles just stay there when you make a mistake. And when you decide a line is correct, then draw over it with one smooth, darker line.

Try using photo reference for those pesky female faces. :)

You haven’t got the goal of the alien faces quite right. Try again, but this time just pick one, and make variations on that one.

Cheers!

*********************



Here is something for all of you to try. Go hand your human drawings over to someone who knows you in real life. Ask if the drawings look like you. Chances are there is some resemblance, because we are generally more used to seeing and studying our own faces in self-portraits than we are used to looking at the faces of others.

I’m blanking on her name right now, but there is an established illustrator who does a lot of editorial work for magazines. Her figures all have a funny squashed and knobby look to them. When she gave a lecture at RISD, I saw why: she had those same features! Another example I saw of this was the work of a fellow student whose shoulders were proportioned a little oddly. All of his figures had the same unusual proportion.

The moral of the story: make sure to spend time studying faces other than your own!

[TimV]

modem vs. ladder - Ouch!
guess it's obvious who won that one. My condolences for your modem, Ilaekae.:patriot:

TimV – Looking good so far. I do see some similarities: most of them have widow’s peaks, and several have the same slight smile. Keep going!

hmmm...
I see what you mean. Funny how you develop habits like that. I'll need to pay a bit more attention when I draw faces.

I had to take an unexpected weekend trip. I'm hoping I can find a scanner so I can submit my other drawings in time. I'd love to submit them to get more feedback.

I'm having a great time with this one!!!

[Frumious Me]

Good job trying this everyone! I was so intimidated by this exercise, but once I got started it was fun. Made me realize I haven't practiced drawing different people enough, getting a sense of unique characteristics. I pretty much just tried to alter the eyes, cheekbones, nose, or lips. But it really didn't have any science to it.

Also, I found that each of these heads took me about 10 minutes, which seems long to me, but maybe that was just because I was trying to think of how they'd look different from the last one.

My aliens are sort of people shaped chameleo-goats. After I did them, I tried to come up with a different looking species, but they were all too nonsensical or just as anthropomorphic. I learned that I have no idea how to make angler fish look like individuals. I think I need to do this again, but larger and with reference.

[Ilaekae]

Thank you, Seedling Dear. Sorry everybody for the absence. Give me a few hours to scan through you efforts and post some thoughts.

************************************************** **

I posted this in my mentoring thread, but I'll put it here, too, so you know the truth...heeheehee


I hope you all had a good laugh over my little purdikament. I found it rather interesting actually. I discovered if you hot-wired a smashed modem with phone wire and taped the damn thing together, for some weird reason, you could SOMETIMES access your email account, but you couldn't get the browser to work. Still haven't figured that one out. I actually did get in here three times by hitting the whole mess with my shoe, so apparently I missed a loose piece of wiring somewhere...

Just so you understand what happened-- I have a back room that was added on by the previous owner (a sub-human mushroom with no construction skills what-so-ever, and the engineering abilities of a wombat) which I've been trying to rebuild and add bookshelves and some closets to for the last year or so in my spare time. It happens to be where the computer equipment is.

I also have six cats, one of which is a gray and black tabby named Tazz that thinks he's a dog, which may actually be the case, since he weighs 31 pounds, stands up on his hind end for head scratches and to beg for food, and follows me around like a puppy where ever I go. He, like myself, is NOT FAT! We are simply...big-boned. And like most...BIG-BONED...people, we don't often see our feet, especially when carrying a 50-pound box across the room. Tazz led the way as usual for about 10 feet, but suddenly decided it was time to stop cold, turn around and stand up for a head scratch...all completely out of my sight line... Now when two big-boned entities meet head-on, a rather graceful dance ensues, completely beyond the ability of a simple fat person/cat team. Add a fifty-pound box of books, and you have the equivalent of the Hindenberg crashing into downtown Milwaukee. Tazz went one way, the box went the other, and I grabbed for the only thing I could see to keep from going through the floor into the basement--a ladder. The ladder flipped, summersaulted over a pile of crap, and came down square on the edge of my computer table. it missed the comp by about 2", but totally obliterated my DSL modem and about 10 feet of tangled wiring. GoooOOOOoooood sound. End of story.

So...my apologies for being in so erratically for the last few days. The new modem is in, the wiring pretty much repaired, and everything seems to be working.

[enrigo]

My ten female heads, I'll try to get the monster one in tomorrow. :lounge:

Glad to have you back Ilaekae :drinkup: :mod:

[Rabbi Satan]

Enrigo, do you have any advice for me on drawing female heads, as well as line quality and drawing control? I suck at both :( I need some help if you have some to spare, heheh...

By the way, would you happen to be Thai? I noticed that you said your location was Canada as well as Thailand.


Edit:

Thanks for the encouraging words Seedling, I really need to work on this...

My line quality is very bad, I can't make single continuous lines very easily, I always make scratchy lines. It's been something that I've been doing and drawing since I was very young, as I had no training to tell me otherwise. And I can't draw female faces to save my life, even though I'm drawing from reference, it still looks like a bona fide male face :( Any advice?

[Jason Rainville]

I'll get mine done tommorow, I swear :D

[Arish]

Ooh, this is such a fun exercise! Here's my male faces... I didn't use a ref for these, just to test the limits of my imagination (and laziness), so apologies if the proportions are a bit wonky.

Females and aliens coming soon.

[enrigo]

RabbiSatan:Yes, I am actually Thai, but I just moved to Canada 2 months ago.

About the head drawing, I would suggest trying to not focus on the construction lines that much. It sure is good for measuring and stuff like that. But like Glenn Vilppu likes to say "There's no rules, just tools", using these lines is great but stressing at it too much and it will be likely to restrict you, it turns from a tool in to a rule so to speak.

I've found some good article on line quality a while ago and here's one:
http://gamma.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=16582
and another one is about inking but there's a lot about arm movement and drawing good lines:
http://www.tomrichmond.com/blog/?p=181

I don't know if my advice is any good, since I am also struggling with these problems. But I think that it helped me by not being uptight with the construction lines. I got the idea from a martial art novel that has a part about a thug without fighting style could fight better than a beginner martial artist who are restricted by his fighting style.

[Rabbi Satan]

Thanks enrigo :) I'll take a look at those.

Are you using reference for your heads or are you doing them from imagination?

I'm also of Thai nationality - I was born in Thailand, but I'm currently living in Hong Kong.

Unfortunately, I can't read or write Thai, much to my eternal shame. Nor can I do the same for Cantonese, much to my even greater eternal shame :P.

[enrigo]

I used references for some of them, the ones that look wonky is probably from imagination.:\

[Rabbi Satan]

Thanks again Enrigo, but I'm just a little bit confused. Do you use construction lines at all? I just tried to do so without them just now, and the features were all over the place and messed up. And I'm now drawing from ref, and my female faces either are all misplaced, or still seem like male faces. Arghakf;asjllscm;asmacsakgaaahah *dies*

[Ilaekae]

Sorry to leave you dangling, Rabbi'...I was off the net for four or five days due to stupidity and resulting mechanical problems.

Try this... Do you have access to some general magines like fashion magazines for men and or women, or teenage interest magazines with lots of pictures in of the different sexes? These are obviously models, so they'll be retouched up the wazoo and a hell of a lot "prettier" than most of us, but they will help at least on one thing...if you study them and compare the male features with female features, you realize there is actually very little difference between the sexes unless you exaggerate the features. Pretty boys look like pretty girls. Ugly boys look like ugly girls. Old people look remarkably alike because both faces age the same. The same applies to the very young.

When you try to draw one sex or the other, you have to stress the various things that make one LOOK more male or female to the average person. If both have the same shape of head, the difference is in the features, and this difference is VERY subtle. The muscles around the mouth and front of the jaw are more pronounced on a man. THEREFORE, to make someone look female, we minimize this. We make a woman look "babyish" to some degree.

People assume all men are big rough gnarly dudes, even though we know that isn't true. So we use this misinformation that everybody accepts as true and use it. When we draw a man, we make him look rugged, bigger jaw, big eyebrows, deep-set eyes, big BIG prominant features, a fair amount of wrinkles and obvious bone shadows. That way, when we move to draw the female face, we can do the opposite. Slightly smaller features, and not as obvious. Women are smoother. Daintier (unless they're married to me...). Not as wrinkled because they really work at not being wrinkled. their eyes look bigger because they work at that, too, with make-up.

Just keep in mind that in real life, the two sexes look remarkably the same. The most obvious clues we have to base our best guess on when tryin' to find a date is the extra stuff--the hairstyles, the make-up or lack of it, the general overall feel of the muscle vs. fat (more muscle, male--more fat [smoothness], female).

Don't get frustrated with this. It's actually an extremely difficult assignment when you seriously get into it. That's why I gave it. A lot of people look at something like this and say, "Shit...piece o'cake!" The people who have had a good bit of experience wrestling with this kind of problem KNOW how hard it is...

[Rogzilla]

Well as I am returning to ConceptArt after being gone for a while, I have only just discovered this thread. I don't know if I will be able finish this tomorrow but I will try, at the very least, to finish it on my own time. I had a blast doing these male faces and I definitely need to add some variety to my female faces.

[Ilaekae]

Don't worry if you have to take an extra day or so. I was out myself, and it will take me a while to play catch up here.

[enrigo]

Rabbi: I was trying to say, more like using construction lines but go loosely with it, because you probably will have to erase them a few times and change thing around a bit.

[Rabbi Satan]

Thanks to you both Ilaekae and Enrigo, I'll just continue drawing female faces until I start to get them I guess...*sigh* Oh well, one of life's little challenges :D.

[chaosrocks]

hey ilae...he said thailand! theres even a worse problem there tellin the sexes about if you include"lady boys" in the puzzle... this is a great assignment I should get off my ass and do it

welcome back
crx

[enrigo]

Ahhh... Thailand, home of the internet trolls and masculine ladies(?) I'm starting to feel home sick.:P

[Seedling]

Welcome back Ilaekae! I'm rofling at your tale! :)

[enrigo]

My squiddy monsters, I don't even know what I was going for myself so they look all over the place. /m\

259954259955

[Jason Rainville]

Blah, quick 'n dirty...

EDIT: funny you can see the quicker and shittier they got as time went on. If there were any more faces to do they'd probably just be scribbles :wink:

[edgaronfo]

Hello Again,

I hope I can still make it, here are my ten female faces.http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs23/i/2007/349/2/3/ten_female_faces_by_edgaronfo.jpg

[edgaronfo]

And finally, here are my ten alien faces...

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs23/i/2007/349/f/2/ten_alien_faces_by_edgaronfo.jpg

[Seedling]

Hi Ilaekae! I spent some time goofing off with some of my coworkers and some sculpy yesterday, and I used your assignment as a starting point. It sure was fun. :rocker:

[enrigo]

Seedling ! you did just 9 of them !! you are a bad role model for your students. :ilaekae:

lol, just kidding. They look very nice, very Zorbatikish......:asspat:

[alesoun]

Hem! They looked so good, I ate one.....

[realitychek]

Gah, didn't get any time these past few days to work on much, still going to work on it on my own though

[delectro99]

gah, i had to work a lot this week... dont have many of the heads done... but ill finish them... but should i post them?

[Arish]

Eeek, I didn't get to do my females and aliens by deadline either. Is it ok if I post them later today?

[Ilaekae]

Post them. I'm slowly going through everybody's stuff and writing comments, so you have time. Better late than never. They only shoot people for being late in the Challenge area...

[Rogzilla]

Alas I could not finish. My Christmas trip has snuck up on me and I am in full panic mode trying to get everything taken care of. Alas that I wont have access to a scanner until the 30th.

If you could still comment on my stuff Ilaekae, I would appreciate it and I look forward to participating full time come 2008.

[JonZ_]

I finished my 10 females but halfway my men... I don't think I will have enough time for the aliens. Anyway, will post what I had done.

[JonZ_]

There, here my females/men... I used a lot of ref...
This one is messed up tho, I accidentaly left open my sketchbook in my backpack and the lead has smugged all over the page.... :(
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5133/pagesketchbookwomanyg2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8139/pagesketchbookwoman2wm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3929/pagesketchbookmanyy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[enrigo]

Whoa ! those are just so cool, Jonz. I would sure like to see your alien/monster piece too !

[JonZ_]

My regrets is I did not went too much to my own drawing style, I mean those face were real and quite easy... But when creating my own faces like those marked by X, it was awful...

I'd like to have more time for the aliens :/ Will do maybe one or two but I will certainly not encounter the difficulty of the 7th or the 8th face :/

EDIT: well I did it, I took the aliens from Halo, and tried to do something with it...

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5125/haloheadsxt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ilaekae]

This is a general note I'm posting in my Mentoring thread, and the two classrooms...

My sincere apologies for seeming to disappear for the last week. I expected a lot of problems popping up at the end of the year because of changes that are happening in my personal life right now, and they did--in spades. They've all resolved smoothly more or less, but at the worst possible time as far as my time on the forum is concerned.

I had a lot of research to do to set up the POW! challenge in time for our deadline, my social security and retirement had some problems that had to be resolved by repeated trips into the city, some final details on legally dissolving a 40-year business before the end of the year, and of course, the usual shit that occurs with the holidays. Now I'm playing catch-up with comments on everybody's work posted in the last week. I should be caught up finally today (Monday) and back on a normal schedule this week.

I'd like to thank you all for being so patient. 99% of my annoyances are over, and now I get to annoy all of you again...heeheehee...

BTW...I've been checking in to see what you guys have been up to and I have to say, I'm very impressed. :)

Ilaekae.

[Ilaekae]

Again, truly sorry for the delay, everyone, but it shouldn't happen again any time soon...

*********************************

alesoun:

Males--actually not a bad range, but I'm guessing you did the top four from memory because they all have a strong family resemblance, especially around the mouth and nose. That particular mouth continues on the guy with the glasses and the guy next to him with the short hair. The two at center row right and the one lower left are particularly nice in their obvious differences from the others, but you still have that little problem of working uphill to your right, which affects mostly the lower left's left eye. This uphill thing is really obvious at the upper right guy, so this is something you'll have to continue to watch for. I'm not sure if you noticed this, but top third, center two on right, and bottom left, are all very expressive with minimal pencil work, and they didn't require a lot of shading to convey the feeling of volume to the faces. These four are particularly effective.

Females--Actually, with only one exception (the "hooker" in line two :P and to some degree, the dark=haired girl right above her), you have a very strong familial resemblance with all the faces here--they're all "round" or as wide as they are high. This is a very strong "typecast." In real life, the face proportions (height vs width) would fall all over the place. One thing...you lost your "uphill-to-the-right" slant here, and you've got some nice expressions captured (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9). The baby is delightful, but maybe could have used a tiny bit bigger eyes to be perfect. Again, 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 to some degree, and 9) have all achieved a nice presence with minimal line work and shading clutter.

Creatures--Okay, so you're not into creatures. My first wife wasn't either, which is why she was my "first" wife... :P In spite of that, you've actually made your creatures more different within their species without losing that species identity than you did your human equivalents. Amazing what you're capable of when you're not afraid to exaggerate, isn't it? :P I mentioned this before in a post to either Rabbi' or JonZ...the human face is remarkably consistent within the "racial" types, and even the difference between the sexes within these groups isn't as great as most people believe. It's all a matter of extremely fine and subtle differences for the most part, with most visually memorable people being so because the have an element extremely exaggerated beyond the norm--big nose, big chin, "perfect features," very thin or thick lips, etc.

Because of this, you felt more comfortable pushing the facial elements on your creatures than you did on you humans, maybe possibly because you didn't want to "get ugly" or exaggerate the features too much.

Good try. Good job.

********************************************

enrigo:

Males--good group with a lot of facial separation (and not a bad likeness of Eastwood). I'm fairly certain you did some from ref and some without, and I think I can pick out the ones that are each. You need a good bit of practice with the anatomy of the face, especially the way the bone structure affects it. The guy at center right, grinning, has a believable skull under that smirk. You can almost feel it. The circle of guys at the upper left, and the one to the lower right I'm fairly certain are not from reference. The reason I think so is because you don't seem to be quite sure where their skull is underneath all that skin, so their features are "drifting" around a bit. Do you notice on most of this little group that you have the mouth closer to the edge of the chin than to the end of the nose? It should be the other way around in most cases, even though it works well as an aid to the expression on the lower left-most face. He looks...chagrined, for want of a better word, and this placement exaggerates that feeling, though his mouth probably should have been just a bit higher without taking away from the effect.

The round-faced guy at the center is actually pretty good at showing someone who likes cookies and lunchmeat a bit too much , but again, I would have moved his mouth up just a bit (which would actually accentuate his weight). As fat as his right cheek is, I'm thinking his left jaw line would fall a bit more to our right to actually allow enough room for a symmetrical set of cheeks.

The "strong-man" type right above the fat guy seems to have a jaw that lost its way--I'm thinking it would drop downward a bit more than you have it, then bounce an angle over to a slightly less-wide chin (sort of like the guy with the glasses).

The profile I have no problems with, but that ugly chick at the lower left should be in the creature set with the rest of its kind.

Females--You have a good range of attractive faces here, and most of them do have a definite separate identity. A few do look like sisters--upper left, high center and right center--with the same features, and you have the problem with the "low mouth" here, too, which is also on the girl behind the afro. You do have a decent variation in facial shapes overall, as well as hairstyles to a lessor degree. The woman smiling at low center looks a little strange because you paid too much attention to her teeth. In a smile like this, less is more--just indicate the presence of teeth instead of drawing each one. It allows for a cleaner look.

Creatures--considering that you went with something that actually doesn't have a face as such, you did remarkably well here. They definitely all belong together as a species, but the differences are positively exaggerated enough to allow an "outsider" to recognize them as individuals.

Overall, very nicely done. You need some work on anatomy, as i mentioned before, and a bit of care on the relationship of the features to each other.

********************************************

edgaronfo:

Males--in the context of this assignment, there's not a whole lot here to find fault with. You've got a nice range of head shapes without any going to an extreme, and a wide enough range of features that i wouldn't have trouble identifying each individual. Well done.

Females--again, a good range of facial shapes and features, but I think you really had to work at this one. :P It's not easy to draw a bunch of stereotypically pretty women and have them look different, is it? In spite of that, I think you did rather well here.

Creatures--I'd buy this. They definitely look like the same species, and I don't think I'd have all that much trouble telling Fred from Aunt Tillie. Good work on caricaturing the features.

Overall, not badly done at all. I'm very happy with these. I think you ned a bit of work with eyes, though, because you have a tendency to repeat what you're comfortable with. Eyes (and the lower end of the nose) are the one of the things that most people assume they have down-pat, when in reality, most of us only THINK we know what the suckers actually look like. they all have different slants and shapes, and the various lid folds and socket skin folds really make for a lot of possible variation. Well done.

*******************************************

TimV:

Welcome to the circus. Males--Good shape range. The faces are generally anatomically sound, and definitely have an identity of their own, but you really had to work at it, didn't you? :P Here's why...you're fudging the lower nose and eyes when you think you can get away with it. This means you have to work harder, because you removed two very important elements from your "playing." (See my note above to edgaronfo (under "Overall...) The first three noses are exactly the same, the two at the bottom plus the guy with the glasses are almost the same, and the two in the center are exactly identical. This kind of sameness forces you to think "family" rather than individual, and when you have a lot of people in a scene that is NOT family, you have problems.

A suggestion...look through a week's worth of newspapers and pay special attention to the faces of the people pictured. Politicians, sports types and your average Joe on the street aren't all that stereotypically "pretty" the way models are, so you'll get a better feel for how gross facial features can get without drifting into a bad drug trip. Models look alike. Movie stars look alike. You and me probably look like people from two different planets... :P We want more of "US" drawn, and less of "THEM."

Nicely done.

*****************************************

Frumious Me:

Males--Well done. Lovely range of shapes, types, and features. The only thing I have some (small) problem with is that many of the eyes are similar. this is a bit of a problem for most of the people who turned work in on this, and I'd be really stupid if I didn't think that part of the problem was the small sizes we're dealing with, but I can tell when someone might be in their "comfort zone," and this is why I'm mentioning it as a possibility.

Female--Again well done, though you don't have quite as much range in the overall facial shapes as you do for the males. I absolutely love the expressions on the top two at the far right and the top two at the far left. Again, I'm worried a bit about the eyes and noses, but with females, this is always a problem because of stereotypically "pretty" and make-up...

Creature--You surprisingly pulled this off without any real extremes, and I think part of that is you had the horns to play with. Good ploy. :P Ignoring the horns, the faces still hold up remarkably well as individuals, so I'd call this a successful solution.

Overall, very well done. I only have problems with little nits, and those are probably due to the size we're working, as I mentioned above.

******************************************

Arish:

Males--Very well done! You obviously have the drawing skills to pull off the subtle caricaturing needed for something like this. Nice range of types, shapes and features, and some very clean confident inking. I'm guessing you just started drawing for the first time...oh...maybe...the day before you did this assignment... :P:P:P

You have a knack for characters, so I'm hoping you get involved in the P.O.W.! Challenges. It seems like the kind of thing you'd have fun with...

*****************************************

RabbiSatan:

Males--I know how hard you worked on this assignment, and it shows. You've got some good variation in the head shapes and features here, so we both know you can do it. Now it's just a matter of continuing to study your anatomy and practice. Well done.

Females--AND we all knew how hard this part was for you. In spite of all your worrying and struggling, you pulled off some rather nice variations here, and you've actually got all the important parts pretty much where they belong. I think you can see what I meant when I told you that it was really hard to differentiate between the sexes, let alone between the individuals within those two groups. At this point, you're having a bit of a fight to get down what you want, and we've all been there. It's just a matter of time and practice. Don't give up.

Creatures--You missed the point about the "same species," but you've got the start of some pretty decent creatures here. I think you should let this area sit for a while until you get your human details under control. That will make everything that comes after a hell of a lot easier.

****************************************

JonZ:

Males--It's obvious you have some decent high-level drawing skills, and you definitely used 'em here. In the context of the assignment, there isn't a single thing here I can find fault with. Extremely well done.

Females--Again, a solid grasp on what had to be done. Very professional level. I would suggest reminding yourself when you go out to sketch to include some ladies who aren't necessarily all that "photogenic" to get a wider range of "types." I'm mentioning this because of the facial shapes I'm seeing here--they're just a bit stereotypically model-ish. You have a knack for expressions like Arish above. I'm hoping you follow through on your plans to enter the P.O.W.! because I think you could have some real fun with it.

***************************************

Rogzilla:

Males--Nice range of shapes and features. (Good drawing skills, btw.) You've got a nice touch for subtle caricature and it's working well here. I'm especially happy you went for different ages and the rather "un-pretty" guy in the second row. Well done.

*****************************************

Jason Rainville:

Males--Very good range of shapes and features. Some of your eyes are a little repetitive, but we're working so small that it's not a big hassle for me. (The eye thing is actually more obvious on the females, but my comment still holds).

Females--You pulled off a wider selection of face shapes here than with the males. I'm specifically looking at the second one in both rows--tall and narrow. I think you pulled off both sexes beautifully without getting extreme. Nice job.

Creatures--Very nicely done. Making assumptions about the "crests" and "facial ornaments," and adding in the various shapes of the face/heads, you've pretty much pulled off a species style with a good deal of individuality. (The assumptions I'm talking about are the differences I see within the animal and bird kingdom WITHIN a species which can get pretty extreme for various reasons...)

Overall, Very nicely done.

******************************************

Seedling:

Males(?)--Hahahahahahahahahahaha... Love these! Nice range of shapes and features. The only thing that thoroughly disturbs me is that they're ALL NEKKID! I may be scarred for life, but don't worry...I'll work it out with my $1,500-an-hour stable of shrinks... :P

(It's fun to play with clay, ain't it? I actually "draw better with a lump of something soft than I do with paper and pencil...)

[Arish]

Thanks for the nice comments Ilaekae! I hope the rest of your holidays is more relaxing for you. :) And yea I'm really looking forward to P.O.W, as soon as I finish my art school application ... and *cough* LMS... *runs and hides*

I loved seeing everyone else's take on this, and I'll try to finish the assignment once things are a bit less chaotic. Happy new year to all!

[Liam Harvey]

can i still do and post my result? i had no idea about this task and i feel really up to it even if no one wants to reveiw the results.

[Curse]

Gerbil, the "Late assignments" thread was made just for that, so go for it. ;)

-> http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114276

I'm sure someone will be willing to give you some crits, if not Ilaekae or Seedling themselves.

[MemoryXIII]

Er.... I'm new... When will there be an update on assignment?

[Wilbur]

I probably shouldn't post since I haven't done the assignment, though I think it's a brilliant one, but I was very interested by the problem that arose on the first page: "How do we make individuals of a different species look like individuals?"

I hope that this hasn't already been mentioned - I just skimmed for the most part. But I think that the simplest answer is that we make individuals of a different species look like individuals in exactly the same way the we make individual humans look like individuals. We play with the aspects that we, as people, instantly recognize, like distance between eyes, distance from mouth to eyes, eye size, face width versus height, forehead length, etc, even if our subject isn't human.

Even if the species doesn't feature some of these features we still have to manipulate the ones that it does feature. This is because people, not aliens, will be viewing your artwork, so if you make your aliens individuals in ways that they do not recognize, you're failing to communicate your ideas, and that just doesn't work in concept art.

The idea of manipulating human characteristics is most important when we consider that we might be trying to make the alien individual have character of a certain sort. What I mean is that if we give some alien a heroically sized chin structure, we are conveying to the viewer that the alien is heroic. You can't really use features that you invent (say you make a creature with vents on the bottom of its jaw) to convey emotions or character traits in a predictable way. You might use the vent size to distinguish between individuals, but that's all it's good for. Manipulating the vent size isn't going to convey rage or heroism unless you repeatedly visually associate it with your characters in that way.

It's also worth mentioning that alien features can be substituted for human features in this way. If an alien has antennae located above its eyes its probably possible to use the antennae as stand-ins for eyebrows, and can be expressive of emotion or character traits.

If the alien doesn't have to function intelligently at the human level - maybe it's the equivalent of a mindless alien farm animal, then the character conveyed by human aspects of eye distance and the rest are still important. You can make a whole alien race look stupid by giving them really wide spaces between their eyes and small foreheads, and manipulate the rest of their features to make them individual.

I guess I've been rambling for a while. I'll go mind my own business now.