[Archived Class 1] Week Six - Encorporating Architecture and Aesthetic Style

[Form]

Week Six Focus: Encorporating Architecture and Aesthetic Style

Recapping Week Five:
Week five was all about weather and time. Essentially, ways to add more compelling conceptual depth to your work - and in some cases, this is required by the job you are working on. In week 5 we crossed a threshold from 'fundemental' skills, to conceptual elements that relate specifically to environment design. It was great to see those of you who put real effort into working with critiques and WIPs - it payed off.

Once again apologising for not being able to be present as much as id like in discussions, it was great to see you guys doing things like desaturating the rain shots, establishing warm and cool relationships - you are learning very quickly. COngratulations! As far as participation, Agustin had to bail and D. Labruyere was given an extension and didnt submit anything. So there are now 3 spots open. Truth be told im quite happy to leave it that way, as the core group is driving itself and learning very well and it means more time i can spend critiquing those who are putting in the effort to stick around. But if someone keeps sending me threat mail until i let them in i guess i will have no choice ;)

Week SIX:

Just like in week 5, we are at a point where we need to push beyond the fundementals (while still keeping them the top priority) and start fleshing out the conceptual side of our designs as well as the pictorial. Architecture has a penetrating effect on environment design - it is at its core, and its future is created by the very designs it affects. Like fashion, architecture came from the beginnings of necessity for shelter and evolved (devolved?) with the human mind to a point of aesthetic expression. The elements that affect the architectural style of an area are multitudous, and as a result the architecture in turn can tell us much about the culture that it shelters.

In such a way, we can express a lot about our concept by modelling our environments from a real world or influenced architecture style. Just as the elements of design are used in different measures when we paint, so too are there different elements of design in architecture which affect its resulting aesthetic. What does it tell us when columns narrow at the top? What does it tell us when water spouts turn into gargoyles?

What we are doing during these few weeks is trying to add to our toolbelts with a range of conceptual knowledge that we can combine in different measures as the context requires. Architecture is a big one, and would be worth any of your continued investigation. Taken into the specific context of video game concept art, I can give you a real world example of the Project I am developing the IP for at the moment. Without breaking NDA, I can tell you that we have developed an architectural style based on art noveau mixed with colonial indian. This has affected the shape of cities, the silhouettes of boats, ornamentation of characters, the design of armour and weapons, even the gameplay systems have been affected. It has been an underpinning part of our game concept.

This week I thought the best way to hammer home these points is for you to combine something that is clearly historical with a production piece that is clearly conceptual.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Study Task 1:

Choose a historical architectural style. This can be anything pre 2000.
Post up 3 images that show this style clearly.

Study Task 2:

I want you to write 500 words (or more) about this architectural style.
Firstly, I would like you to write about the aesthetic and structural
trademarks of the style, and then write (in equal weighting) about what
this style represents of the culture and people who spawned it. This is
important not just to recognise the what, but also the why.

------------------------------------------------

Production Piece:

Taking the style you have chosen, and keeping into consideration the 'character' that style conveys, I want you to design the grand central train station of a futuristic human civilisation. The piece should show the architectural influence clearly, but also convey that it has been appropriated several hundred years in the future. Most importantly, the design and atmosphere of the grand central train station should reflect the cultural identity of the architecture, and should match up with the way the culture you have created behaves. It could be a benevolent society, it could be imperialist, communist, religious, etc.

Best of luck... the marks are improving. Keep hitting these home runs guys.
A

Deadline:
Wednesday 19th (anywhere in world)

[Earendil]

Do we announce what we're choosing? I'm thinking of High Gothic. Looking forward to tomorrow!

[chaosrocks]

my immediate instinct and love is renaissance Italian
crx

[Gundersen]

I was thinking about Gothic architecture aswell, and Form even told me to choose that. BUT its been done so many times before, so i have decided on going for: Ancient Egyptian architecture

On this topic I can try some interesting stuff including ideas from Dune and Egypt and stuff

So will be interesting .... Time to get a Pro or ill quit :frustrated: hehehe

[robmorfin]

I wanted to choose French Gothic - chosen, but I would love to try Hindu Architecture (Angkor Wat Style) or maybe Byzantine Architecture.

[robmorfin]

.... Time to get a Pro or ill quit

Go, Gund, you can do it!

[Form]

updated

[Gundersen]

Will update this thread as i get more info fed into me :)

Ancient Egyptian Architecture & Life

Architectural Design principles

To understand some of the architecture of Egypt we have to start by looking at what climate Egypt is situated in. North of Africa on the east coast where the Nile is is mainly a desert area. It has extreme changes in temperature, from the burning sun in day to the freezing nights. There is not a lot of material to choose from. So Egypt based its architecture on stone buildings. It was easily accessible and worked in the climate as well. The stone buildings kept the buildings cool during day, and the heat it gathered during day kept the temperature ok during nights as well.
More importantly I think when it comes to the design features is that most buildings are very open to allow cooling winds to move through the buildings. The large temples and monuments are open on all sides to enter.

Ancient Egyptian architecture is very monumental. It is largely decorated and has large statues to honour its gods or pharaohs. The most famous structures is of course the pyramids. But this was tombs, and for me it doesn’t represent the daily living in Egypt. So I will rather talk about the temples and their importance in Ancient Egyptian civilization. The large temples was monumental and impressive in its architecture. Large statues decorated the temples to show the power of the gods. The structures where based on columns throughout the building. This created open areas at the same time as it made the common man feel small compared to the massive structure of the gods. This is one of the most important aspects of the Egyptian design, to emphasis the power over the common man.

The columns and walls inside palaces and temples had ornamentation or decoration. These where used to tell stories about different subjects. Stories about great deeds the pharaoh had done, or what would happen to you if you opposed the will of the gods.

Most buildings in ancient Egypt, even the pharaoh's palace, were constructed from perishable materials such as mud bricks and wood, and did not survive. Important structures such as temples and tombs were intended to last forever and were instead constructed of stone.



Culture & Life

Egypt was ruled by the state, and all its main structures where built by the state. Not only to provide religious, military and funerary structures but mainly to reinforce the reputation and power of the living pharaoh to make his legacy live forever.
The Egyptian priestesses, priest or magicians where highly believed to use magic and spells. Oracles where also believed to exist inside the temples of the gods. They had great powers in Egyptian culture. Even the Pharaohs feared the gods. Slaves where used to erect the structures, and it took many years for it to be done. Highly developed architectural skilled made it possible to create the large temples and pyramids to a very accurate measurement.

But I think its important to also look at the less monumental and god aspects of their way of living. As mentioned earlier it was desert place, warm winds filled with sand, and in general a hard way of life. Water is important in a world as this, so animals such as camels where popular for travel and transporting trades. The Nile was a river for transport of trade as well as fishing. They developed a very famous boat that was used for this (look at image). With its triangle sail that has become a symbol of Egypt. Looking at the cloth style of the Egyptians they dress in a very light way, by using layers to dress out the heat, rather then wearing no clothes. The large hanging robes keep a cool area around the body.


Develop into Sci-Fi

Here are some of my ideas of how to bring an ancient culture into a sci-fi environment. The world is still ruled by pharaohs and that impacts the look of public buildings. Massive columns create a sort of open area where you can see the landscape around. In the main hall for the trains is several gigantic statues of long forgotten pharaohs standing. And the construction of a new is under way. The structure is stone. And the shops and café areas are covered against the wind and heat by using white sheets of materials.
We are on a desert world with the same limitations as on our own world. It’s a windy desert landscape with strong winds and little water. The air is very dry and filled with sand. They still wear clothes to protect them from the wind and the heat. Trade is still important for them.
The famous Nile boat has been developed into a Train that is based on wind energy, by using its famous triangle sail it picks up the winds of the desert and moves from city to city.

[daldbaatar]

hey gundersen, we dont want the ORIGINAL CLASS MEMBERS to quit....stay...dont go...u got 7 more waves ( weeks ) coming...SO U BETTER STAY

[Gundersen]

hey gundersen, we dont want the ORIGINAL CLASS MEMBERS to quit....stay...dont go...u got 7 more waves ( weeks ) coming...SO U BETTER STAY

hehe it was a joke ofc, wont leave you guys!

btw of the original 10 we are only 3 left :P

[jodali]

looks like i have some research to do :thinking:

[Earendil]

hey gundersen, we dont want the ORIGINAL CLASS MEMBERS to quit....stay...dont go...u got 7 more waves ( weeks ) coming...SO U BETTER STAY

Hear hear! :yayca:

[chaosrocks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/BridgeofSighs2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/RialtoBridge.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/116Venice-GrandCanalandRialtoBridge.jpg
here's what Im looking at

[Gundersen]

Chaosrock: Those are ok images, I think the image in the middle is the best example, the two other ones i am not sure shows anything related to the renaisance architectural style:

The Renaissance style places emphasis on symmetry, proportion, geometry and the regularity of parts as they are demonstrated in the architecture of Classical antiquity and in particular, the architecture of Ancient Rome, of which many examples remained. Orderly arrangements of columns, pilasters and lintels, as well as the use of semicircular arches, hemispherical domes, niches and aedicules replaced the more complex proportional systems and irregular profiles of medieval buildings.

[chaosrocks]

the venetian renaisance artchitecture in Venece shows a heavy influence of Byzantine and Arabic ornimentation. It is a visual representation of venices trade in fluences to the east.
There is less of the Roman and more of the Persina in venetian architecture which is part of what makes it appeling to me
more later

[corza334]

3 left? :O ... Can i take a place? :D

[Gundersen]

dont spam this thread. Send Form an Email

[Form]

gundersen - fantastic post there mate. Great work digging up a bit of historical juice and keeping it relevant to the piece to be created. Make sure to keep the concept of your production piece clear and strong - i like the idea of the triangular sail on the train to harness the wind, and the idea of the material to keep everything cool. Im really looking forward to seeing it!! Dont hesitate to use lots of ref and open up your composition a bit :)

Chaos - cool, look forward to your research on how and why the arabic stuff influenced the venetians

corza 334 - please PM me with your details and samples of your work

[robmorfin]

I decided to go for Romanesque.

Changed my mind. Images Removed; See post #27

[Earendil]

I'm going with Gothic in all it's varieties, of which I'm researching right now. Here are some images.

[rvdtor]

im going to go with Baroque Architecture...
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3630/180pxportaljesuitenkolljo4.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3307/250pxdelreiigrejafs7.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2505/478pxcatanesanbenedettoud6.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8669/265pxmgkbasilicasupergake5.jpg

i have a question, baroque architecture spread italy to many other places like turkey, france, belgium, scandinavia and england and many others. when taken iin by a new culture there are aesthetic differences that suit that community right? so in essence MY cutlure scenario can incorporate from all these when it comes to referencing right? i mean there are differences between them but the basics remain, the main features. [will report on this later].

[Gundersen]

Man there is gonna be many interesting piece here this week i think :)

Here is some sketches iv done the last days.
The bottom one is the one i will keep working on I Think, will make a final decision tomorow to what sketch i will go for.

[Earendil]

Gundersen, you're right, the bottom one is the strongest, however I do think the first one is also strong.

One question I'm asking myself now is: What perspectives would my architectural style look the best in? For mine, probably anything emphasizing vertical scale, so NO face-on angles for me unless maybe emphasizing symmetry...

[Gundersen]

I am actualy planning on changing my perspective alot. Instead of this "this is how a train station looks like" I wanna try to create more the mood of when the vessel arrives at the station...

Well ill try to through up some sketches on it tomrow :) hehe

[chaosrocks]

due to my obsession with venice
my "trains" may be floating.... watertrains K?

Ive attached a couple more images
showing St Marks Cathedral

I will write the dissertation tomorrow.... isn't that always the way with dissertations?

[Form]

great images guys! my right click finger is numb.

Earendil: Yeah strong 3 point is probably the obvious choice for gothic, seeing as it has that overpowering 'man is powerless' aesthetic. Base it off your research...

Gundersen: I like that thumbnail, though like your other pieces it is falling back into that wide ration, presentational format. Its very front on. I wouldnt mind seeing a more dramatic 3 point from you, or maybe something shot from POV inside a small crowd of people? Just some ideas to stretch your comfort zone. Think about when you have visited train stations, and the views you get. From the platform? Maybe coming up or down the stairs to the platform? Stuff like that :)

[robmorfin]

What was I thinking?, Romanesque?, Nooo, back to Angkor Wat....

Thanks F.

[Earendil]

You'll have fun with that rob! Looks very interesting!

[Form]

so beautiful!

[jodali]

gundy - that Egyptian could prove to be very interesting. I like your sketches so far, I kind of think that the middle right could have some possibilities, but only if you widened the shot. the bottom is the best one, I dont know if you care about my opinion, but it looks like it may be a little wide, almost a 180' panorama, maybe thats what your going for? but I'm still not that good with composition.

chaos - renaissance, i kinda felt thats what you may of gone for, cant wait to see some sketches. water trains, yes!!

Earendil - gothic, that could have some possibilities for a lot of little details.

rvdtor - Baroque, that one is going to have a lot of little details too.

rob - ughhhh, you beat me to Cambodia! :xpld:


as for me I think that I might be going for mayan, it may have been done to much but I'm still going to try.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/carefs/TikaltempleV.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/carefs/800px-Templo_de_los_Guerreros.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/carefs/800px-Palenque_Overview.jpg
images from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Palenque_Overview.jpg)

[Gundersen]

great images guys! my right click finger is numb.

Earendil: Yeah strong 3 point is probably the obvious choice for gothic, seeing as it has that overpowering 'man is powerless' aesthetic. Base it off your research...

Gundersen: I like that thumbnail, though like your other pieces it is falling back into that wide ration, presentational format. Its very front on. I wouldnt mind seeing a more dramatic 3 point from you, or maybe something shot from POV inside a small crowd of people? Just some ideas to stretch your comfort zone. Think about when you have visited train stations, and the views you get. From the platform? Maybe coming up or down the stairs to the platform? Stuff like that :)


Yes i totaly agree, have done some sketches on it, will try a bit more today and see what i can manage. You havent put a deadline on this project, when is it?

[Form]

wed 19th fixed

[Gundersen]

here is some new sketches...

Think i will go for the last one of these. Interior

[Form]

great dude. i like the last one. just make sure the geometry is belivable; that it has a structural function, and also that it shows some consistent shapes throughout

[chaosrocks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/mountains1aw.jpg

has nothing to do withth assignment ...just playing with atmosphere

[Form]

the compression makes it really hard to read, chaos

[chaosrocks]

better?

[robmorfin]

Ey, Gundy's sketchbook is not only on paper anymore, cool.

[Form]

better now chaos. now if only it was on topic... ;)

[chaosrocks]

I know I know
*mumbles*

crx

[Gundersen]

just arrived in Munich atm, start of my christmas holliday, havent had time to start paintin yet, will do some later and post up. But dont worry my friends, i will have a piece ready til wednesday before i continue my travel to Norway :)

hehe

[Earendil]

just arrived in Munich atm, start of my christmas holliday, havent had time to start paintin yet, will do some later and post up. But dont worry my friends, i will have a piece ready til wednesday before i continue my travel to Norway :)

hehe


You dirty rat! :mittenbop:

[robmorfin]

Work in progress.

[Gundersen]

a tips to both you Rob and Chaosrock, before you start working on the final piece, write the "essay" about your style first, so you know whats important and what you want to show. You might find out that your sketch doesnt realy funtion with what you want to show...

just a tips

[chaosrocks]

gundy..you do realize the thing Iposted has nothing to do witht the assignment....right?

[Gundersen]

hehe ok read it now :)

Here is a WIP on my piece.
Working in B&W atm to get value correctly. And also working on the mood of the place. I imagine since its in egypt there is a large busssssing market area with cloths in many colours as roofs

well comments critts welcome ..

[chaosrocks]

Gundy. the value composition concerns me. At the moment you have two focal directons sins the white squares on the laft are popping out and the perspctive is going of to the right. The heavy black framework is making a visual stop to the eye movement around the page. you might want to try looking away form it an then glancing back quickly to see what your fresh impression is. or just squint.
crx

[Earendil]

Ok, this isn't 500 words, but I don't consider this my final anyway. Form, or any of my classmates, if you have questions you think I should answer, it might help me write about more stuff and investigate into certain ideas etc...right now I'm not sure what questions to ask. I think I've answered both questions, but it's still kinda short.

Anyway, here goes:

Gothic Architecture

Abbot Suger of France, with his new ties to the monarchy, endeavored to rebuild his abbey to outshine all others. He wanted to emphasize the harmonious order of God’s universe, and the spiritual realm to a much higher degree than before. Using new and evolved elements from Romanesque architecture such as the pointed arch, the ribbed vault, the columns of supporting ribs, and flying buttresses, Suger was able to endow his new abbey choir with heavenly ambience, and at the same time, in a sense, invent Gothic architecture.

Romanesque already introduced buttresses and ribbed constructions, but it was the introduction of the pointed arch (ogival) that brought about new engineering tools for structural support and weight distribution, and as a result styling was also given greater flexibility. Vaulted ceilings were able to be raised much higher than before since the pointed arch transferred the weight to the support pillars at a steeper angle. The very form of the arch, suggested an upward motion that symbolically and subconsciously represented a drive towards Heaven. This emphasis on verticality is a major feature of Gothic cathedrals, with massive spires projecting up from the exterior, and on the interior extra decorative columns that rise from bottom to top in an unbroken line.

Light was able to play a much larger role, literally, with the increase of window sizes to the grand proportions of Gothic, from older Romanesque designs, which were smaller because of the thicker, weightier walls. With the new ribbed construction provided by the pointed arch, the thick and heavy walls of Romanesque were no longer required and large stained glass windows could fill more of the space, and endow the choir with more “heavenly” light. Flying buttresses also allowed for forms in the interior walls to appear light and effortless since more weight was directed towards the exterior.

In order to show the harmonious nature of God’s universe, the Gothic cathedral uses ratios and subdivision of its surfaces and forms to a much tighter degree than previously before. Keeping in line with this harmony, sculpture is more defined in its arrangement and placement upon the structure, as opposed to its previous usage in Romanesque, which was relatively lax. This disciplined use of divisions, repeating forms, and ratios is one way in which Gothic architecture is distinguished from Romanesque.

[Form]

makes me remember why i love gothic architecture earendil ;)

rob - looking good. Careful not to lose that top spire too close to the canvas edge.

gundersen - as discussed, the value heirarchy needs a 'rational' approach, deciding on the light source and then 'becoming the light' and moving through the piece. Try to visualise the path of light as rays coming from the light source. What do they hit? Where do they bounce off and reflect? Etc... and using reference for the proportions and shapes of different structural elements.

[daldbaatar]

Ok...long time no see...
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5361/hujaaarchmy4.jpg
Chinese architecture

Chinese architecture style is the most common and influenced throughout many Asian countries ( Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese architectural designs are heavily influenced by Chinese architecture ). Especially during and since the Tang dynasty ( around 8th century AC ) The structural principle remained the same but only the decorations had changed in ages. All of the building architectures are same regardless in what use they are.
Basic principle of Chinese architecture was already established, wherein columns spaced at intervals, rather than walls, provided the support for the roof. Walls came to serve merely as enclosing screens. Decorative possibilities were soon realized in the colorful glazed tiling of roofs and the carving and painting of brackets, which became more and more elaborate. The most important is the emphasis on the horizontal axis, in particular the construction of a heavy platform and a large roof that floats over this base, with the vertical walls not as well emphasized. This contrasts Western architecture, which tends to grow in height and depth. Chinese architecture stresses the visual impact of the width of the buildings. Another important feature is its emphasis on symmetry, which connotes a sense of grandeur; this applies to everything from palaces to farmhouses. Chinese buildings may be built with either red or gray bricks, but wooden structures are the most common, these are more capable of withstanding earthquakes, but are vulnerable to fire. The roof of a typical Chinese building is curved, there are strict classifications of gable types.
There are 3 major divisions in Chinese architectural style. Imperial architecture, religious and commoner architecture.
The imperial architecture records the great intelligence and creation of the laborious ancient people that had a profound influence on the design of modern architecture at home and abroad. It features the highest achievement of the Chinese ancient architecture that includes imperial palace, imperial mausoleum and garden architecture.The wooden columns of the buildings, as well as the surface of the walls, tend to be red in color. Black is also a famous color often used in pagodas. They believe the gods are inspired by the black color to descend on to the earth. The Chinese dragon, an emblem reserved for Imperial China, were heavily used on Imperial architecture - on the roofs, on the beams and pillars, and on the doors. Only the buildings used by the imperial family were allowed to have nine space between two columns, only the gates used by the Emperor could have five arches, with the centre one, of course, being reserved for the Emperor himself. The ancient Chinese favored the color red. The buildings faced south because the north had a cold wind.
Buddhist architecture follow the imperial style. A large Buddhist monastery normally has a front hall, housing the statue of a Bodhisattva, followed by a great hall, housing the statues of the Buddha’s. Daoist architecture, on the other hand, usually follows the commoners' style. The main entrance is, however, usually at the side, out of superstition about demons which might try to enter the premise. The tallest pre-modern building in China was built for both religious and martial purposes.

[rvdtor]

Baroque architecture, starting in the early 17th century in Italy. New architectural concerns for color, light and shade, sculptural values and intensity characterize the Baroque. But where the Renaissance drew on the wealth and power of the Italian courts, and was a blend of secular and religious forces, the Baroque was, initially at least, directly linked to the Counter-Reformation, a movement within the Catholic Church to reform itself in response to the Protestant Reformation.
The Baroque played into the demand for an architecture that was on the one hand more accessible to the emotions and, on the other hand, a visible statement of the wealth and power of the Church. By the middle of the 17th century, the Baroque style had found its secular expression in the form of grand palaces, first in Italy and then throughout Europe.
In the 17th century, the Baroque style spread through Europe and Latin America, where it was particularly promoted by the Jesuits. Important features of Baroque architecture include:
• long, narrow naves (the central approach to the high altar) are replaced by broader, occasionally circular forms
• dramatic use of light, either strong light-and-shade contrasts, chiaroscuro effects (bold contrasts of light and dark), or uniform lighting by means of several windows. Magnificent use of ornaments (puttos [the baby angels] made of wood often gilded [covered in gold], plaster or stucco, marble or faux finishing)
• large-scale ceiling frescoes
• the external façade is often characterized by a dramatic central projection (the middle formation is highest)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9900/480pxinvalidesic8.jpg

• the interior is often no more than a shell for painting and sculpture (especially in the late Baroque)
• illusory effects like trompe l'oeil and the blending of painting and architecture (it’s a very cool effect IMO)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3555/400pxfrescowithtrompelocv1.jpg
• in the Bavarian, Czech, Polish, and Ukrainian Baroque, pear domes are ever-present.


Still my unanswered question from the previous post...."I have a question, baroque architecture spread italy to many other places like turkey, france, belgium, scandinavia and england and many others. when taken iin by a new culture there are aesthetic differences that suit that community right? so in essence MY cutlure scenario can incorporate from all these when it comes to referencing right? i mean there are differences between them but the basics remain, the main features."

[Gundersen]

an update on mine, values better? widened the shoot a bit, added people, added the train and also some texture details on some walls. The train is not good yet, to be honoust it looks like shit ... on the bottom of the shaft with all the tiny people ...

[Form]

dald:

great man, there are some very particular, specific elements of that to work into your concept (obviously) - the column structure, curved roof, horizontal emphasis etc. Cheers, great read.

RVDTOR: sweet man.. another good read, good summation. How you gonna turn this into concept? Seems like it will require detailed painting? Is that last photo from the louvre? I think ive been in there...

Gundersen: getting there, but you still arent clicking into logical mode... why would the bottom of that bridge be so light if the light source was above it? You are missing a lot of cast shadows and not thinking about areas that would be partially concealed from the light. Push it... push your mind to do it... kgo!

[jodali]

Mayan Architecture

Not to much is known about the mayan simply because of the age of the civilization, and also because of the fact that the people lived in a jungle at the time, since then the jungle has once again taken over. the mayan people used their environment to their advantage. If the land lowered in elevation and water collected there than that would spawn a city due to the fact that irrigation was a lot easier. If they were stuck in aN area where there was no readily available stone to quarry, then they mostly used adobe bricks, and since adobe weathers down not to much is known about their original architecture of adobe huts. Where they had access to stone they built large temples dedicated to deities. they mostly used limestone because of how easy it is to work with. many of the temples were mostly used for religious purposes, and not really for utilitarian purposes. they often decorated the out side of the temples with statures and carvings. Some believe and have found some evidence that some of the structures were painted lavishly and very colorful. they have also found that the outside of a majority of the temples were coated in a stucco like material made from crushed limestone. This stucco material gave the temples a bright white appearance. A few temples grew to be very tall, this is because the mayan never really had a set laid out plan for how the structure would be built, if there was free space, a few stones and some people they would put up a temple. Although one of the only rules was that they all face the same way, they generally lined up with the stars. Every 50 years or so someone would order the reconstruction or remodeling of a temple. depending on that persons particular taste, any temple could be different from he next. Most of the temples were bi-symmetrical. Since most temples were constantly being reworked they often did not destroy the temple but would just take of the outer layer and the build up from there, some of these temples grew to be huge after many years, one is believed to be constructed over 1500 years, being approximately 230 feet tall, the largest of the known mayan temples. the footprint of the temples was never a main focus, more the height was important.

They mayan believed in deities, their gods. they often performed human sacrifice to please their gods. a large portion of the temples were believed to be used used for sacrifice. They also believed in the after life, and ball courts were used to plat games that were significant in the passage to the after life. Along with the large ball courts, there were many large open spaces for people to gather. From what i have gathered it seems that the mayans believed in the closeness of the community. many of the smaller buildings were open and made it easy for people to move in and out, however the larger temples, had large steps leading up to the top, usually one way up and down, this probably has to do with the importance of their leaders. Many mayans were fascinated with time and the cyclical nature of the stars, sun and moon. Its believed that some wise elders constantly studied this and influenced the people who built the temples to orient the structures in such a way that they could tell what time of the year it was. It was important to know and study the past events that happened over and over again so that the people who know would be able to "tell the future". Its not known if this was a completely unknown aspect of the mayan world or weather it was used to control the masses. The mayan were constantly at war fighting among the local tribes. This is believed because of all the intricate figure that were carved into the large temples, while these temples were there to represent their gods, the local leaders also painted depictions of themselves at the top of the temples to show any approaching tribe or travelers that the people were very strong and powerful. the mayan made their cities large and widely spread out, i believe they did this because they were a proud and successful civilization.

[chaosrocks]

hmm I had to go back and read to figure out what architecture Gunderson was aiming at.
Gundy I think you are getting "train station " really well but losing egypt. those bridges and spans have a geometric quality but they are so delicate and unsubstatiantial. My impression of egyptian architecture has always been huge solid massive structures. IT was always interesting to compare the transience of the cloth and the bright markets with the huge solid Ageless masses.

[Gundersen]

I agree with you Chaosrock that its not completly egyptian architecture. But i have tried to work on the idea of a large open indoor area to protect it from the heath. The structures is supposed to be massive. This will hopefully show when i put in ALOT more people. I am aimeing for a bussy sci-fi train station with hints to point back in history to Egypt.

Will work more of bringing egyptian architecture into the design ...

Here is an update to make it look a bit dirty and bussy ... with neon signs :P

[Edit fixed some more details]

[daldbaatar]

guys im lost...give a hint...i will put a train in the front and will make the hall inside glow deep.

[Earendil]

Ok...long time no see...
Chinese architecture
Chinese architecture stresses the visual impact of the width of the buildings. Another important feature is its emphasis on symmetry, which connotes a sense of grandeur; this applies to everything from palaces to farmhouses. ...The roof of a typical Chinese building is curved, there are strict classifications of gable types.
...


Based on this, I don't think this angle supports the architecture. You can't really show off symmetry from this viewpoint. Slanted roofs are harder to see as well. Neither can you stress the width of buildings from this view...


I'm getting closer...the biggest problem I'm having is trying to get a 3point that doesn't DISTORT so much on the Z-axis...I'm trying to find something like a 2-point with an "almost infinite" 3rd vanishing point below. I'll post some stuff I've been working on.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2414/2116693532_f21a681a76_o_d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/2116693462_f04e500e4a_o_d.jpg

I think 2 has potential...this 3rd one also has potential, but it's too distorted, I want something a little wider. I may take that ribbed vaulting on the right and move it further to the right. Maybe move the vanishing point to the right as well...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2044/2116066895_e0785fa0f6_o_d.jpg

[Earendil]

Ok, I think I'm zeroing in on what I was after. What do you guys think? It might not read well at this stage but I wanted to show you...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2096/2116597841_9152be491b_o_d.jpg

[jodali]

daldbaatar - As for the image you have so far, the perspective seems to be working great for me. I defiantly get the sense that i'm in a huge hall with sky windows for a ceiling. but i agree that it doesn't really give a sense of the Chinese architecture. If you decide to keep going with this one, you may want to put something in there that resembles your choice

Earendil - ''Z-axis" do you work with 3d programs at all, it seems like sometimes you describe things like you work with them. with your earlier post if you want that infinite VP on your third point, I've found that you need to get rid of the other 2 points or a least one of them (not get rid but not have them visible in the final viewable area) If you want to keep the 2 horizon vps then keep the 3rd way off to the bottom. which is why i think your last post looks much better. I cant tell what kind of space it is but the perspective looks good, i dont think you'll get to much distortion off that one. I like the gothic arches you got going so far.

[Gundersen]

daldbaatar its a bit hard to read atm, and i think your train will occupy alot of the image in front there... Might not be the best solution. But i like your three point. But i dont think chinese architecture used this large windows. Go for large open spaces with overhanging roofs.

Earendil some of them was a bit hard to read, but on the last one it reads well. To get a realistic looking 3 point perspective you need to put the VP thats not on the Horizon Line FAR AWAY, the longer away the better :P

[jodali]

here are a couple of quick value sketches that I threw together, I dont really like the outdoor one, I'm not to sure about the indoor one, I like it more than the other but I'm not sure if that 3rd vp at the top is distorting it at the bottom left too much. I think i may go for a larger interior space. I need some fresh eyes..
any ideas, comments, critz are welcome
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/121707train01.jpg

[Gundersen]

I like your interior shoot alot, looks great. Defenatly go for interior!

[jodali]

thanks, i was thinking that i might either make it a larger space or try to make half interior, half exterior, mostly indoors just with really big open doors that lead to the outside.

[Gundersen]

I had to go back to read up on what style you had Jodali.
Mayan architecture, there is not even a tiny hint of that in your design :P hehe First of all Maya was in a jungle, so place your design in a jungle enviroment. Think about how they lived there and possibilities they could have developed further on. Look away from traditional glass buildins like there are in any sci-fi movie. If you look at Mayan architecture its mainly stone built. So that it would last long. And there are TONS of stairs running up to the top of the temples.

Look at images Jodali ... Think what Maya would be 1000 years later if they would keep the same culture with a few people ruleing everything and all the other people where slaves..
Watch the movie "Apocalypto" by Mel Gibson, that will inspire you http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472043/

[daldbaatar]

Guys i have changed my mind...gonna do something completely new...thanks Earendil

[Earendil]

here are a couple of quick value sketches that I threw together, I dont really like the outdoor one, I'm not to sure about the indoor one, I like it more than the other but I'm not sure if that 3rd vp at the top is distorting it at the bottom left too much. I think i may go for a larger interior space. I need some fresh eyes..
any ideas, comments, critz are welcome
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/121707train01.jpg

At the angle you've chosen on the first, a vertical comp doesn't work as well. You could try extending the canvas in either direction and get something better...or bring a tower closer and get a dramatic 3point going. Like the indoor, but the distortion bugs me...but that's normal. :)

[rvdtor]

jodali go with the interior shot mate its really working better with space and perspective...it reads very well.

earendil im really diggin the lighting and the numerious arcs....

gundersen im not really seeing the egyptian influence if only for the characters but thats only cause i know what ur going with..given to another person its only gibberish..im sure working in other elements tho.

dalbaatar.. the first image is great perspective though the building looks just placed inside another big building...incorporating dominant chinese architecture with the trains and people and the open spaces ur good at will definately be better.

[Gundersen]

gundersen im not really seeing the egyptian influence if only for the characters but thats only cause i know what ur going with..given to another person its only gibberish..im sure working in other elements tho.

hmmm no idea what you meant with this sentence :P hehe

But i agree it is not a copy of an egyptian style, but i am trying to envision how an egyptian culture would develop to in a sci-fi world. So they still use stone as the main building material, but have developed some alot more. The market area is to represent their culture. And the warm colours to represent the climate ...

Will work on more elements, but also the signs have Egyptian letters atm

[Form]

gundersen:

Pursuant to discussion on msn, i think you still need to watch your value heirarchy. You had it going there almost, and now you have added these neons which are confusing it up again! I think the train should be more of a focus, emphasizing the triangular sails, and the neons should be saved for elsewhere in the image. And dont just randomly put them in - think about carefully placing them in areas which need more warm or cool or more or less saturation...

daldbaatar:

Agreed with earendil, i think you have chosen the shot angle, perhaps you could do some thumbnailing using those refs u dug up as a basis?

Earendil:

The last thumb is a great improvement. See how easy it becomes when your 3rd vp is off canvas?? I like the idea of the trains moving towards the gargoyles face. Push it push it... :)

[Form]

jodali: agreed with others, interior is great. Distortion doesnt bother me (if you can pull it off). Cool :)

[Form]

oh and jodali, you will notice some recurring shapes of stone the mayans used, similar to the large shape you have in the top right quadrant... play with some mayan heiroglyphs there perhaps, combine big stone blocks with glass and metal? Vines overgrowing? I think one of the tomb raider games had an enviro like that... i forget which. I was too busy ogling lara ;)
A

[robmorfin]

Gund, you are designing completely ignoring what you wrote, go back to your post and read it again.

Jodali, Nice Interior shot, step it, create terraces, add sculptures, maybe instead of a Courtain Wall, make it a wood Espalier with plants hanging from it.

Ear, it's looking nice, although I would like to see the top of the arches, after all, that's the main characteristic of your style.

[Earendil]

Ear, it's looking nice, although I would like to see the top of the arches, after all, that's the main characteristic of your style.

Ahhh, but is my subject the architecture, or a futuristic train station? :mittenbop: However, the pointed arch will be making more appearances once things are fleshed out...

The Gargoyle was taking up too much of the foreground, I wanted to show the middle area in the back as being hustle/bustle/boarding area and the gargoyle competed...so what I did (i'm at work I can't upload the latest), but basically I took that left side of gargoyles and converted it into a sort of gantry/bridge with pillars and gargs...I think it works better, and I may add one final garg in the upper upper left...I'll just upload it when I get home.

Jodali> I'm always jealous how quickly and accurately (relative to me :P) you get those value relationships working. My goal is to beat you, take it as a compliment. :yum:



Earendil - ''Z-axis" do you work with 3d programs at all, it seems like sometimes you describe things like you work with them. with your earlier post if you want that infinite VP on your third point, I've found that you need to get rid of the other 2 points or a least one of them (not get rid but not have them visible in the final viewable area) If you want to keep the 2 horizon vps then keep the 3rd way off to the bottom. which is why i think your last post looks much better. I cant tell what kind of space it is but the perspective looks good, i dont think you'll get to much distortion off that one. I like the gothic arches you got going so far.

Yes I do work with 3d programs and level editors. Z-axis is actually the improper use though since Z is going back into space...sliding on the z-axis woudl be trucking forward and back with the camera. I meant to say, slide down the Y axis, which is the vertical. ;)

[Gundersen]

thanks for comments and critts people, I agree with it, and will take a couple of steps back and approach my design a bit diffrent.

cheers

Ill step back to this stage, and start makeing it more egyptian. I need hieroglyphs, Pharaoh statues and so on ... I like it better when i got rid of the neon signs, any ideas what i can do with the large purple room up on the right side??

[Gundersen]

Ahhh, but is my subject the architecture, or a futuristic train station?

I know people look at that point differently. Since you are practicing to be a concept artist i would say its up to you to interpedate it. But in my mind i feel its important to have the architecture in the back of your head, bring out the details of that area. But the design is still the sci-fi train station, and its only YOU that decided how Gothic architecture have developed into a sci-fi world. Cause no one can say your right or wrong. But to make people understand it as a gothic world you need certain elements. BUT DONT COPY gothic architecture thats boring :P Develope your own cool ideas!!!!!!!

hehe

[Earendil]

thanks for comments and critts people, I agree with it, and will take a couple of steps back and approach my design a bit diffrent.

cheers

Ill step back to this stage, and start makeing it more egyptian. I need hieroglyphs, Pharaoh statues and so on ... I like it better when i got rid of the neon signs, any ideas what i can do with the large purple room up on the right side??

Moar trains! :anime:

Neon hieroglyphs sound cool, but listen to Form.

[Earendil]

Here is what I was talking about in the earlier post.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2299/2119484731_e13a70733d_o_d.jpg

[Gundersen]

So lets see if i read this image correctly, we are standing on a sort of balcony/pathway verry high up in the air, close to the roof. and the trains are comming in through the arches on the right side? or on the left?

Atm it lacks a way for the eyes to follow into the composition, The foreground elements leads your eyes off into the left side of the image, towards a bright area there. While the middle ground leads your eyes straight into the picture

Where do you want us to look? Its kind of hard to read atm :)

cheers

[Gundersen]

I did a quick paintover to show you what i mean when it comes to where you want us to see, a good way to lead our eyes into the image, I think it will work well if you lead the yes into the light first, then let us wander off to the left where you have a more cool colour...

[jodali]

thank you everyone for the input, it really helps me to see whats wrong with it, after reading your posts i realized that the stepped ceiling was the only thing that was even close to mayan architecture. jungle, i didn't even think if that. "Apocalypto" - saw it a few weeks ago, love it. might be the reason I picked mayan.

gundy - as for your post, I was kind of liking the neons you had before on the right, but if your taking them out maybe a cafe like setting, a couple tables. maybe a "watch-while-the-chef-cooks-your-food" stations. were those in lifestyles of the rich and Egyptian?


Jodali> I'm always jealous how quickly and accurately (relative to me :P) you get those value relationships working. My goal is to beat you, take it as a compliment. :yum:


thank you, I wish I was quick and accurate when putting those together, I want to find a way to skip the perspective setup, thats the only reason that one looks halfway descent. also your train station will have a lot of room on the inside. I like that one without the gargoyles in front, it helps to unclutter the image but i think they should still be there somewhere




with the left one i tried 'heavier' construction, bigger blocks. Its basically the same scene, just set back a little further in the perspective, trying to get rid of the distortion. the right one i was just messing around with another idea. the buildings will not look like that, they're just simple boxes for now. The final will have jungle, vines, trees, maybe more steps somewhere, sculptures of mayan gods, oh yeah and a train.

the boxes are just ideas now, 4:3, 16:9, 2.85:1

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/121807mayatrain4.jpg

for any one who care this was done in one PSD file, the scratch file was 1.4 GB :wtf:

[Gundersen]

great improvements jodali, still prefere the left image as its similar to the last one just developed ALOT better. There is something that confuses me a bit still. And thats the scale of things. Your railway track in the middle is so wide and big that everything else gets tiny. In my mind i would picture a smaller train(average size) arriveing at at MASSIVE train station built of stone materials.

Love the boxy feel you have added, reminds me of mayan culture, but maybe make the stairs wider aswell? They are so tiny and nice atm, in mayan culture the stairs was more fearfull, used for sacrifices, they where HUGHE, but yes i like it alot, only real critt is that scale gets ruined by the big railroad track.

Thanks for comments on mine, have worked alot on it today, will post an update later ;) so be prepared hehehe

[rvdtor]

i have to disagree gundersen..the enormous railroad track just adds to how massive the place is and gives more distance from the gateway. although i do think the steps need to be more bolder and wider the steps made those pyramids and where i come from i saw enough of them. the right image is even bigger i think and the space is even greater but i think the left being more refined is really catching jodali,,,good work.

gundersen what i had said about yours before was that i know its in the future, and that our concepts need apply there. however even in the future the egyptian culture and the impact religion had on them would still be prominent in their architecture. so far the only way we know that its egyptian is because we know thats the topic you are doing. but if u show it to someone outside the forum they might not immediately see it that way... take jodali's for example, just the boxy shapes of the pyramid in profile defines the overall shape of the station, you clearly see the mayan influence...in yours its not prominent. but like i said also it is still wip and lots of elements are still to be placed in right? i was really hoping to see the thick round pillars tho.

anyway enough blab hehe here's my thumbnail thing i need some help...no severe details on baroque style but getting the track and feel for the persp.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3527/traingz1.jpg

[Gundersen]

here is how it looks atm

fucked up the psd file, had to few undo options on, so couldent undo all the way back, so my image got stuck on 1000pixels wide and flattened ....

Have added some more egyptian influence, and worked more on my main ideas about the sails.

When it comes to your image rvdtor, where is the lightsource? The coloums have a shadow on the side closest to us, meaning it has to be behind the columns, but they dont cast any shadow. and what is the thing on the bottom left side? I think it has an interesting perspective and gonna be interesting to see it in the end.

[daldbaatar]

Ok guys this is what i got so far...of course i will add some details. And when is this due? i think if we gonna deal with more details then we gonna need 1 or 2 more days Form, or the rest of the week if u allow.

Yo Gundy my man...now the only thing that will make it truly egyptian is the hieroglyphs and wall reliefs and some color or wall paintings.

[Form]

i just finished watching 'the lives of others', anyone seen it? I need some emo self-contemplating cave time, so you can all have your extension as requested. How does +48 hours sound? So that would make it 11.59 friday gmt+12 or whatever it is...

[robmorfin]

Thanks Form, that's going to help a lot, I've had so many deadlines lately, haven't had a chance to update mine.

[Gundersen]

Ok guys this is what i got so far...of course i will add some details. And when is this due? i think if we gonna deal with more details then we gonna need 1 or 2 more days Form, or the rest of the week if u allow.

Yo Gundy my man...now the only thing that will make it truly egyptian is the hieroglyphs and wall reliefs and some color or wall paintings.

Thanks Dalbaatar, appreciate you like it :) I totaly agree that i need to add some hieroglyphs, and since our kind develish teacher known to live only at night have give us extension its DETAIL TIME!

Dalbaatar when it comes to your image I love the crazy colours and it totaly looks like a chinese building, but I have to ask you, how do you intend to show its a train station? and whats tells us it is based in the future? I know youll make something sweet in the end!

Cheers

[Earendil]

i just finished watching 'the lives of others', anyone seen it? I need some emo self-contemplating cave time, so you can all have your extension as requested. How does +48 hours sound? So that would make it 11.59 friday gmt+12 or whatever it is...

Dude, listen to Sigur Ros while you do it. :lounge:

Thanks for the extension!

[chaosrocks]

The main features of renaissance architecture are symmetry and proportion, accompanied bit a certain simplicity of surface. The style main stems from an idealization of the Roman forms of columns and arches translated into arches and domes of elegant dimension.
The Venitian forms of renaissance architecture are circumscribed by the limitations imposed by unstable ground, sodden atmosphere and being surrounded by water. There for the heavy stone work of the terrestrial renaissance cities become a lighter more open structure in the miasmatic swamps of the Venetian Islands. The buildings need to be adapted to capture every breeze as well as being built on pillars that are sunk deep in to the shifting mud. (unfortunately some are not sunk deeply enough, and through the actions of tide and erosion a goodly portion of Venice is sinking)

In the renaissance, Venice occupied an enviable position as a maritime super power. Located at the cross roads of east and west the markets of Venice were the clearing house for goods in all directions and particularly a funnel for all the goods come up the spices roads the through Persia and turkey. The architecture of Venice as well as the lifestyle became heavily “easternized” this includes a penchant for elaborate ornamentation, the open building styles of the harem and baths of the east and the rounded “onion” domes that grace the cathedral of san Marco. The Venetians were also notorious “collectors” of artifacts from other cultures, several of the crusade launched form Venice, and most of the crusaders returned through Venice leaving goods and styles that they had acquired in the “holy land” to pay the way there and back. The most famous example of this ins the four horses on the front of San Marco. Which are Byzantine, and stolen.

But Venice pioneered the adoration of the elaborate, decadent convoluted and ornate styles that became prevalent in the rest of Europe in the baroque period. But based on top of the clean symmetry of the Roman style.

I have so many ideas on how to incorporate these structural preferences in to a train station I don’t know where to start. My first inclination is to put the whole thing on water world with the trains running on the surface of the water attached overhead like a monorail. Then of course one could start aerial with a monorail. And all the bridges making up the station ….. and to some extent the station has to be defined by the trains. Although I suppose one could design the other way around
I’m so overwhelmed. 434 words…that’s all you get

extension comes at a lovely time thank I got distracted by medusa, and LMS...time flew ...and oh shit
so yes please thanksyou

I will come and comment when I have actaully put some shapes on the paper..you know marks yeah on the wacom or something
...

couple quick questions though.... Gundy... it still seems to have 2 separate focal points but nothing to realy look at. its like a frame with no picture in it. granted its a really nice frame.....

and Dal...what makes it a trainstation? looks loike the forbidden city.

[chaosrocks]

I went back to the brief for my own assurance. I thought it might be a good Idea for us all to read it again.

Taking the style you have chosen, and keeping into consideration the 'character' that style conveys, I want you to design the grand central train station of a futuristic human civilisation. The piece should show the architectural influence clearly, but also convey that it has been appropriated several hundred years in the future. Most importantly, the design and atmosphere of the grand central train station should reflect the cultural identity of the architecture, and should match up with the way the culture you have created behaves. It could be a benevolent society, it could be imperialist, communist, religious, etc.

I break down the required elements as follows. each of these things should be clearly discirnable form the image without description.

1. our chosen style...cultural identity
2. trainstation
3. futuristic

all of you if you look at your image...does it do all those things?
mine sure doesn't cause ..quite honestly it doesn't exist yet
heheeh
ok ok Ill stop talking ....
:P

crx

[Earendil]

Erm... I've got trainstation...but 1 and 3 maybe not so much. :P You got me thinking though, thanks!

[robmorfin]

Ok, here are my five cents.

Architectural Styles are design rules set up to obtain and keep an overall specific look, in Architectural school you are thaught a lot of these Styles and its rules and elements, the idea behind that is that you create your own style in every design, the elements are there to be used as a recipe you can modify, not to copy other styles, just look at Frank LLoyd Wright work, there are Japanese, Egypcian & mason elements and symbols mixed in his designs, people that try to design like him fails to do so, because he didn't have a style or the same rules for every single design; Going back in time, let's say when the Barroque style was the way you were supposed to design, you had to follow strictly the "rules" setup by some Architects, if you got out of those rules you were wrong, being the best example Antonio Gaudi, he was hated by other Architects for not following what everybody else was doing.

So, for this task it's really easy, we just have to follow some of those already setup rules for the styles we have chosen to get the "look", even though it will be in the future.

I would say don't worry so much about the materials, they were part of the rules and we are familiar with them but they are not necessary to get the style look that we are looking for, here is the proof: imagine few building models made out of white foam board with every style that we have chosen, an egyptian temple, mayan pyramid, gothic cathedral, barroque library, etc, etc., or imagine a picture of these bldgs. against the Sun, there are no materials and we can tell right away what style it is, once you have the overall look, most futuristic materials will work fine.

Another thing, the elements that compose it; don't get too deep into the rules on how the pointed arch was created and with which tools and how many recesses or the number of towers around the temple because that is how many Gods the religion had or whatever, just make the arch pointy, that's the main rule, add towers as you please, as long as they look nice regardless of the Gods, again, GET THE OVERALL look by using the basic rules of the elements that have been used.

So we are asked to design a Futuristic Train Station with an ancient Architectural Style, the best way is to find out which elements of Design were used and the reason why they were used and try to mimic some of that on the Design.

I'm going to give an example with Gundy's piece:

-Egyptian Architecture is suppossed to be Monumental, give a sense of Heaviness and Solidity, have thick walls with almost no openings, short beam spans, close column spacing.

-Gundy's piece has very tall ceilings, but no heaviness in any other elements, the walls are 30 meters (90 feet) tall and very skinny, the pattern used on the walls doesn't look heavy at all, it looks more like small stone veneer on the wall instead of huge stone blocks, the roof spans are gigantic, and I do agree that it's in the future and materials used allow way bigger spans, but then you kill the great Egyptian look of the monumental really wide columns spaced very close (they couldn't create big spans because the beams were made of one piece of stone), right now the columns shown look like toothpicks in relation with the building; the terrace thickness is almost nothing, the one on the left side is only few 10 centimeters(4 inches) thick, also, it's ok if you add elements not present back then, but make them look as the ones that existed, those diagonal columns, make them look the same as the columns, wide, ornamented and close spaced; Right now, the only small hint of egypcian I get from that piece is the colors you used, so you are only tricking the viewer, also, by adding one sculpture in the middle you are only giving the Las Vegas Casino look, like a stage, you made a box and then planned on adding egypcian stuff later, but not acomplishing what the purpose of this lesson.

By the way, that Sail is way too tall, it's going to hit the bridges in the FG.

[Earendil]

Continuing...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2132/2121508367_f9de70d64f_o_d.jpg

This is going to be a tricky balance...because..well....there's tons of light...because Gothic likes that, and I like that too. Focal points will be a little interesting methinks. Do you guys think the 3 arch "entrance" on the left is too distorted/too far to the left?

EDIT:
Even more... It's...I think it's falling apart. Help!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2268/2121619361_e87b9344a8_o_d.jpg

[Gundersen]

I'm going to give an example with Gundy's piece:

-Egyptian Architecture is suppossed to be Monumental, give a sense of Heaviness and Solidity, have thick walls with almost no openings, short beam spans, close column spacing.

-Gundy's piece has very tall ceilings, but no heaviness in any other elements, the walls are 30 meters (90 feet) tall and very skinny, the pattern used on the walls doesn't look heavy at all, it looks more like small stone veneer on the wall instead of huge stone blocks, the roof spans are gigantic, and I do agree that it's in the future and materials used allow way bigger spans, but then you kill the great Egyptian look of the monumental really wide columns spaced very close (they couldn't create big spans because the beams were made of one piece of stone), right now the columns shown look like toothpicks in relation with the building; the terrace thickness is almost nothing, the one on the left side is only few 10 centimeters(4 inches) thick, also, it's ok if you add elements not present back then, but make them look as the ones that existed, those diagonal columns, make them look the same as the columns, wide, ornamented and close spaced; Right now, the only small hint of egypcian I get from that piece is the colors you used, so you are only tricking the viewer, also, by adding one sculpture in the middle you are only giving the Las Vegas Casino look, like a stage, you made a box and then planned on adding egypcian stuff later, but not acomplishing what the purpose of this lesson.

By the way, that Sail is way too tall, it's going to hit the bridges in the FG.

I respect your comments, but i dont agree with you there. I know your an architect and look at all in a certain way, but i decided to be more freely. After many years of development i think its more important to get the mood and culture corectly. And hopefuly someone can see its inspired by Egyptian architecture

and btw: THe sails are magical!

[Gundersen]

This is going to be a tricky balance...because..well....there's tons of light...because Gothic likes that, and I like that too. Focal points will be a little interesting methinks. Do you guys think the 3 arch "entrance" on the left is too distorted/too far to the left?

EDIT:
Even more... It's...I think it's falling apart. Help!


Hey Earendil, dont worry its not falling apart :) . But you are loosing yourself in that you want to many points of interest to say it like that. When I look at your image i am not quite sure where you want me to look, the clock? the light on the left side? the light on the right side? hehe
I like your viewangel Ear, but i think you need to decide on some diffrent things.
- Focal point
- MAIN light source
- Secondary light source
- warm/cool contrast
- balance

Not sure if my comment makes sense, but i hope it helps you out a bit

[chaosrocks]

edit

nevermind

[Gundersen]

thats not the last image i posted ...

Look at the later image, and i have total respect for your comments, but that doesnt mean i agree ;)
And if you look at that image which is an old one then i totaly agree that the focal point doesnt work. But that has been changed in the other one i posted and is still in progress of changing.

post #84 is the latest update i have posted here

[Gundersen]

Here is an update on the progress, showing the diffrent possibilities i have gone through, Normal train, adding sails, makeing saild bigger, creating sort of a special train that goes over ground and turns to the right out of the picture And bridges that can be raised, so the sails dont need to be magical :P

[daldbaatar]

well...it was painstaking working on the roofs and stuff. I still need to make some columns and make them lit and shine polish them. I know i need to fix the columns in the main hall...But those who wonder how am i gonna turn this thing into a railway station..dont worry...i got a trick up my sleeves.

[Earendil]

I'm going to guess that the railsystems are going in and out of those large bays in multiple directions. We'll see what you do though dald. :)

In the meantime, Gund, I'm going to think about focal points and lighting.

Gund> The lines are jerking my eye around. They're going everywhere. There's bridges that stop and swoosh up, diagonals criss crossing and then intersecting verticals...I'll paint an overlay when I get home.

Dald> Remember to "weather" your buildings a bit if they're outside.

[Form]

rvdtor:

Hey man, have you pushed this at all since the last post? Got an updated wip for us? That perspective with the 3rd point inside the canvas is going to result in some heavy distortion, I hope thats intentional?

Jodali:

Same with you, im looking forward to an updated WIP to offer more critique?

Gundersen:
262888 what you think?

Daldbaatar: Looking great! However maybe it is approaching a stylistic threshold? If you want a more realistic view you need to add some cool and warm variation, some texture, and take it out of the 'loading program' and into an environment with terrain and variation. I have noticed that a lot of your pieces seem to be sandbox-ish, on flat ground or similar? Your quality of rendering and the feel to your forms is very slick though.

Earendil:
K, dont panic :P I want you to take it back to the previous step before you put in the bridge over the tracks. I want you to keep the hall open. Id like you to clean up the shapes/forms, and then give it colour and start working in atmosphere. What is going to sell this piece is the cavernous interior that makes all train stations beautiful, the misty light coming in through cloudy windows, and the feeling of grandness. Coupled with the architectural suggestions and train in the fore/mid, there is no necessity to add anything else. Tighten and add colour and atmosphere, we will take it from there.

[robmorfin]

wow, time flies, I have to go home now..

Here are two wips, the 1st one is suppossed to have two rails top-bottom and the trains will be attached to both which will be series of large and tall human pods, the second one will be just one rail in the bottom, I like the curve on the 1st one but I'm afraid it would pull your focus out of the image, what do you guys think?

Ear, it's looking good.

Dald, awesome rendering man, nice details, how long have you worked on it?

Rvdtor, every vertical line is supossed to follow that 3rd point, including the people's height and the lines in the foreground, that will make it more believable.

Jodali, you are stepping it towards the sides, if you step it towards the front, it would look more tridimensional, right now is a flat surface.

[Earendil]

Rob> I think if you incorporated architecture that supports the railways it would help lead the eye with repeated shapes. I like the curved railway better for using such support structures. :)

[robmorfin]

Thanks Ear, I will add some kind of structure tomorrow.

Updated, added some texture to towers.

[Gundersen]

ehh the deadline is in 11 hours btw

[Form]

ish.

rob, make sure you focus first on making all your big shapes and colour/value schemes read correctly - dont go into rendering details too early
A

[robmorfin]

Right Form, will do.

[daldbaatar]

good lord! is this true that the deadline is in 11 hours? it cant be!

[Gundersen]

well atm its 3-4 ish

[Gundersen]

well I tried to do some crazy stuff with mine, work a bit with colour, which is more my style :P hehe

Gonna post it a bit bigger this time then i normaly do, maybe it shows more of the way i paint then ..

Looking forward to see the rest of you guys work

[robmorfin]

good lord! is this true that the deadline is in 11 hours? it cant be!

No Dald, we still have 1.5 days, see:

you can all have your extension as requested. How does +48 hours sound? So that would make it 11.59 friday gmt+12 or whatever it is...

[Gundersen]

ehhhh no

gmt + 12 friday at 11:59 is in 4 hours


GMT + 12 = Wellington, New Zealand
Time there atm is: Friday 7:30 AM
Deadline is 11:59 AM that day ...... calculate the rest yourself ;) (yes that makes it 4 hours almost)

[chaosrocks]

Gundy thats looking beautiful! the color shift is a little abrupt but gives it a lovely "flavour" I'd like to see the yellow shafts of light coming down troughthe blue hjust to tie it togethre a smidge.

I have struggled withthis all weel
there are bits I like of the idea but I cant seem to tie them together. Im goddess knows no where near done. Ive scrapped azillion of ewm

but heres what I have so far its very very rough
I am totally ashamed but Im intrigued withthe idea It just wont fold itselfinto what Iwant it to be

[daldbaatar]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2179/mainstationzy3.jpg

Damn! I need time!

[chaosrocks]

dal.. so do I! damn you thats so tidy..Im such a slob...wjeresthe trains?

[Gundersen]

Gundy thats looking beautiful! the color shift is a little abrupt but gives it a lovely "flavour" I'd like to see the yellow shafts of light coming down troughthe blue hjust to tie it togethre a smidge.


Thanks! :)
Yeah i tried to tie it togheter with some colour shifting ... might try more like you say

[robmorfin]

Deadline:
Wednesday 19th (anywhere in world)

+48 hrs= Friday 21st (anywhere in the world).

[Earendil]

Thanks Form and Gund for the feedback. I'm going to turn all the lights off now, and start adding the light sources one by one, while keeping in mind what i want in the end in terms of lighting, color, focal points, and balance. I think the arches on the left are fine, but the light is WAY to bright, and so I'm keeping all the light values from being placed in that left area.

[chaosrocks]

damn it
the attachment mananager keeps eating my posts
thats 3 long relevant responses its eaten
grgrgr
crx

[chaosrocks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/Vstation5w.jpg

its moving..not fast

[Gundersen]

+48 hrs= Friday 21st (anywhere in the world).

Gund, we now you finished already, sit back and relax, don't try to stop the clock because you are done, be a good boy.

quite funny to see how hard it is to understand deadlines ... well well youll learn eventualy :) hehe Or maybe i am just used to traveling in diffrent GMTs and haveing deadlines in other GMTs

Chaosrock Bring up the detail on the big arch, make that your central point of attention. Get some bright light shining on it, aka darken down the areas around. That will make the picture read alot better for the viewer. Also the boats are a little confusing, i understand its a development of the classic boats, but if they are flying they need some sort of engine i guess. Add engines on them in a cool colour, the bruning engines could create a nice colour contrast

Keep going , looks nice

[Gundersen]

i just finished watching 'the lives of others', anyone seen it? I need some emo self-contemplating cave time, so you can all have your extension as requested. How does +48 hours sound? So that would make it 11.59 friday gmt+12 or whatever it is...

Yes Form wrote this a bit hard, but it clearly states the deadline is 11:59 on Friday in the timezone GMT + 12. And from that you can calculate when the deadline is in your own timezone. The easiest way is to look at the time he posted it, and it tells you your time add 48 hours to that and you know when the deadline is/was :)

hehehe

[Earendil]

Deadline:
Wednesday 19th (anywhere in world)

+48 hours :mittenbop:

I just like using that smiley.

Here's the latest! I tweaked the values overall, and it just SNAPPED into place. Very nice. Gotta clean up some stuff and put some pillars back in, then render, color and LIGHT baby...MMMmmmm I love light...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2091/2126157876_0c4dac89df_o_d.jpg

[Form]

well guys, we are deep deep into extension time and folks still arent done with their work. We are all very busy leading up to xmas, and these pieces seem to be a deviation from the level of quality i have seen lately. You should all be producing portfolio pieces by now.

What do you guys think of taking a break until the new year and starting up again on the 2nd Jan?

[daldbaatar]

Yeah man. But i think we all should finish this up before the new year and take a break till jan 2 as Form said. And it would be better if Form write the next chapter ready opened around chrsitmas cus let some of us early finishers make a move on. Yeah...thats my opinion

[robmorfin]

Alright, are the shapes and values working now on the third image? the first two were just studies.

[robmorfin]

well guys, we are deep deep into extension time and folks still arent done with their work. We are all very busy leading up to xmas, and these pieces seem to be a deviation from the level of quality i have seen lately. You should all be producing portfolio pieces by now.

What do you guys think of taking a break until the new year and starting up again on the 2nd Jan?

That would be wonderful, I spent few days just researching and watching movies about this amazing Architecture, but didn't have much chance to put it in paint, and as you say, too much holiday crap needs to be done as well.

I think this break would give all a chance to finish a decent piece.

[Earendil]

+48 hours :mittenbop:



I r retarded.

:harbl: /m\ \w/

[Gundersen]

I have to agree with Dalb that i think maybe write out the critts / comments for the people that are finished, and let us start next weeks assignment, even if its due like 9 of january. You can just make it slightly better, or let us choose ourself how much we want to study.

cheers

edit

Since next week is about Texture and Material I think that could be extended to a 2-3 week long assignment in a sort of structure like:

- Study as many material as possible, and find out how to paint them in both light and shadow
- Design textures for diffrent materials
- Look at the reflective properties of materials
- Study what materials is good to use for what, aka look at contemporary works and see what they use

bla bla bla ... You get the idea :) It would be cool to have it longer then 1 week, cause we can learn alot from this. How to speed up our process by useing custom brushes and textures.

The outcom could be 10-20 pieces by the end of the 3 weeks, all made in less then 1 hour
Would be sweeeeeeeeeeeet :)

[Earendil]

Gund and Dald both good suggestions. Texturing and materials == yum!

Here is mine.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2306/2126781590_6da3aa7a19_o_d.jpg

A break would be nice Form, but you can't fix stupid.:frustrated:

[Gundersen]

Looking good Earendil, but i think the trains are a bit boring :) hehehe Make em more dark and dirty. The people are also verry white, and it looked like the battle of the lightsabers first :P

Gotham City is based on Gothic architecture. In the movie they have a pretty cool train going to the main station, have a look at that

[rvdtor]

well here's an update sorry if i haven't been in here much but i'm swomped,

earendil...wow on ur colors...i dont think the trains are simple the focus was the station, trains are trains they dont necessarily match the station they pull into. the people at first i though was sawdust but their size does give the piece a nice sense of scale, tho some color variations on them would help.

chaosrocks i love the idea are the gondola things flying? in any case its a nice concept tho needs polish and ur perspective is off.

dalbaatar i like your sense of space...i like how you make your pieces so big and massive. good job on those details i can only imagine the pain.

Robmorfin i love the prominent objects and ur color scheme although the perspective on the foreground plane doesn't match the buildings in the background. depth is nice but ur persp makes the background building look like their sliding off.

here's mine update y wrists are aching and im hating myself for choosing this extreme angle, im paying for it now. getting all the objects aligned and just right is proving troublesome esp. with all the little embellishments. ended re researching the style and defining values and contrasts and light source.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1160/train3al5.jpg

:nohope: i second rob's request for the break. would be a nice help to get over with xmas and recollect.

[Gundersen]

Well ill post my final in a smaller version aswell
(The big version is on the previous page)

rvdtor: The only thing that tells me that this is a train station is that i know it, and guess that those "subway entrances" are entrances to the train station. hehe :) LOVE your detailing though, have you painted them all seperatly? Great reflection in the floor, very polished for being outside :) hehe

Add in some people so there is some life. Looking nice, you have a cool style

[chaosrocks]

the light still confuses me a little. I know you are finding a cool shadow/hot sunlight balance
but the light color itself changes.... Like its sunlight on one side and moolite on the other.... the image looks cool but Im having a logical sdissonance.

Im terribly sorry my work on this has been soo slow
I would indeed relish more time to finish it without having to panic and do a slobby job. I also would appreciate a break or and t least a longer time period for the nex section . as I am also doing CHOW and LMS. If you guys get bored..you could alwyas do the next EOW... just to stay in Practice..... :)

[Gundersen]

hehe yes logicaly its weird indeed :) But as i sense in your comment you kind of like it aswell . I like this idea of a darker area where the light is complelty hidden from. The colour contrast attracted me, so i went for it :)

Ill try a more fluint look for next image

[Earendil]

Gund> Thanks for your feedback. As it's an unfinished piece, this is correctable. Today I learned about timezones and the importance of listening to your teacher.

I'll be commenting on others in a bit.

[Gundersen]

Here is a solution i use when i paint crowds. You dont need to draw every singel person, and on a distant even if they have little detail its impiortant to have them read as people. So on this assignment i created a person that i use in architecture drawings when i need a person to show scale. It doesn have good anatomy or anything, But the idea is to create your own style of a persons outline and make a custum brush out of it. That way you can create crowds easily and fast that looks beliveable.

And people seen on distant normaly gets very dark, so use an almost black colour on them if you can

So first the man
Then the painting of a group
(Its only an example, not the best at all)

[Gundersen]

and btw, by adjusting more on the custom settings you get the right perspective and so on :) hehe

My example doesnt look good, look on my image for this week, used that brush there

[daldbaatar]

OK guys, after working over 30 hours i got it done. And if u got any comments and advice and things that aint lookin right, just tell me. Yeah Form, i think you're right about the sandbox i usually make...thanks for telling me man...i will make it different next time. But this time it was an inevitable in style and both culture and stuff. I wanted to put space ships over the cities and the mainstation but i suck at drawing such stuff. I tried but it just didnt fit the building style. So...Here it goes.

[robmorfin]

Awesome Dald, just watch the rails on the right side of the image in the BG , they are in front of the post in th MG.

[Earendil]

Dald> Awesome work. The rails and maybe the leftmost buildings, need to be pushed back into space a bit more, they seem to be on the same plane as objects much closer to the viewpoint.

Gund> Thanks for the feedback and crowd stuff. I thought since there were 4 massive windows with low sunlight beaming through, everybody would just light up. ;) It's a bit too much though, and I was rushing to get this to a readable state.

Rvdtor> I like the green you were going towards. This had a kind of "Emerald City" feel to it. You're right about that extreme angle though...distortion brr!

Gund> Warm and cool put aside, the graphic vectors are not harmonious, and the only safe place for my eye to rest is the bright sail. You've destroyed the majority of your one point strength by breaking up repeating forms, and strong vectors. The following is designed to vocalize the movements of the eye.

"Big line on left that leads me...WHAM into a pole, ouch...ok I'll follow the pole up AIEEEeeeee off the canvas! Hold on to the bright sail! Big strong line...BIG strong line on right says...'I'm going to lead you back to the nice sail, and off into the lighhhht in the distance'...here we goo..weeeee BAM into the pole...follow the pole, off the canvas...repeating..."

Of course, I am able to complain about this because you're FINISHED. :)

[Gundersen]

great work Dalbaatar!! Wish i could texture like you, and dont worry youll break out of that sandbox, we all have our mountain to climb ;) hehe

[robmorfin]

Rvdtor - Nice detailing, just be careful with the reflections, some of them are not matching the same patterns, again, all verticals have to follow the same vanishing point, it would still worked out fine if you followed it with the trees and the bottom structure, the stair angle is too steep going down and it just makes the perpsective look more distorted; And two of the things I have heard a lot of the best Concept Artists: don't center your image and don't use a squared canvas.

Dald - weather that base of the bldg., remember is in contact with the water.

Gund - I like your enviro, it's looking very nice, just be careful with the sail and lights above it, they are way too bright and distractive, I liked it more how it was before.

Chaos - don't get the lines out of your original vanishing point & add a lightsource.

Ear - I like the light effect coming in a lot, I think it should be more reflected on top of the train and the ground, very nice depth you created; the windows on the right kick you out of the canvas though.

Jodali - where are you?, can't wait to see what you come up with, I'm sure it will be very nice.

[robmorfin]

the perspective on the foreground plane doesn't match the buildings in the background. depth is nice but ur persp makes the background building look like their sliding off.

Sorry, missed it. I'll check that out. Thanks RV.

[jodali]

well guys, sorry, but I dropped the ball this week, I got confused with the timezones, had stuff going on, blah blah blah I fucked up, I wont bore you with a list of lame excuses. :nohope:

I do have a large amount of time invested so far, with thumbnails, speed paints, perspective setup, linework, etc. so I'm not going to just drop this project, it will get done but other things must get done first.
here's whats done as of now, linework + very rough values.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m120/jdlfx/CAorg/122107mayatrainE.jpg

[daldbaatar]

Thanks for all of you who commented, i saw my mistakes...Will fix it tonight

[daldbaatar]

Ok here is the final.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7828/mainstationmergedpy7.jpg

[chaosrocks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/chaosrocks/Vstation6w.jpg

still working on it
dal how did you do that texture anyway?

[daldbaatar]

Children!!! Merry Christmas!!!!

[Gundersen]

hehe Merry Christmas

[Earendil]

Merry Christmas!:yayca: :drinkup:

[Earendil]

Anybody else going to Revelations?

[chaosrocks]

i am
you?

[Gundersen]

not this year, ill see maybe another time. Not sure if its for me ..

[Earendil]

i am
you?

Yes, we should say hi. I look like my self portraits with longer hair. I'm probably going to hang out in the more foundational stuff since that's what needs work, while I'd love to see the speedpainting stuff...probably not...M@'s going to be there tho...and sparth...hmmmmmm....Oh decISIONS!

[robmorfin]

Angkor Watt Style

Also known as Khmer Architecture is a unique Architectural style; Once in one of the most populated cities in the World, later recaptured by the lush of the forest, became a legend for centuries, recently re-discovered (1861) and introduced to the western world.

An Architectural Jewel that deserved to be one of the new marvels of the world more than some of those chosen.

This Style emanates greatness, is a basis for a spiritual expression, temples are formed of conventions and symbols, is the translation of an idea, of a force that is superior to mere aesthetic considerations; It attains a classic perfection by the restrained monumentality of its finely balanced elements and the precise arrangement of its proportions; Work of power, unity and style.

Architectural elements: Towers (Prasat) with eight corner cruciform shape, vaulted galleries, enclosure hallways, bass reliefs, collonettes, lintels, pilasters, frontons.

Materials: Sandstone, brick, laterite, timber, tiles.

Architects, Sculptors and Priests worked in conjunction to make this Architectural Marvel happen, all of them being slaves of the empire.

Thousands of slaves lived around the water moats in wooden houses for centuries with the only purpose of building temples, while the king and nobles lived inside the temples;

Two religions coexisted: Brahmanism & Buddhism, symbols of both religions are all over all the buildings.

Final Environment:

[Gundersen]

looks god rob, nice development from last time

[robmorfin]

Thanks gund,

can't wait to see the others!

[robmorfin]

Small Update

[Earendil]

I'm looking forward to applying what I learned at the workshop to my future pieces.

Ready when you are. :mittenbop: :yayca: