FlameDragon's Sketchbook

[FlameDragon]

Many of you have seen me posting around the forums, but those of you who havent, my art has been pretty unimaginative. It's been like that ever since I became fascinated with anime around '98/'99. Instead of being influenced by anime, I just tried doing what they were doing. In the meantime, I neglected the actual basics and fundamentals of drawing. I'm quite far behind where I should be, so now I am putting my plan of action for improving my art into play. I have a bunch of figure drawing and general art books and resources:

Complete Guide to Figure Drawing by Ryder
Anatomy: Complete Guide for Artists by Sheppard
Goettfried Bammes figure drawing book
The Vilpuu figure drawing manual
The Natural way to Draw by Nicolaides
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards
Other art theory books as well

And I'm also taking an actual figure drawing course now. I plan to draw every single day things that I see outside and around me, and upload at least one drawing each day. My art at the start is not going to be that great but hopefully I'll start seeing some improvements. My goal is to improve in all aspects, but specifically anatomy, perspective, composition and being able to articulate my ideas from my mind onto paper.

Without further ado, here's a life drawing from today's session:

[FourTonMantis]

I was wondering when you'd come around. :)

The best way to get better is to draw what you see, and that's a great start. I saw some of your other figure studies and dude, they're not THAT bad.

[FlameDragon]

I was wondering when you'd come around. :)

The best way to get better is to draw what you see, and that's a great start. I saw some of your other figure studies and dude, they're not THAT bad.

Thanks :) But yeah I need to improve alot, yesterday I had so much trouble with the gestures. Since I tend to have alot of free time, I think I'm going to sit down for about 3 hours a day and study/draw the anatomy books and do exercises from the Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain book and the Nicolaides book.

[FlameDragon]

Some drawings from today. I was watching the Jim Lee videos on youtube again and he places alot of importance on the rough/gesture sketch, so I was practicing on some. In figure drawing class I do so poorly with the 1 min gestures, I only have like an arm drawn before the poses changes. I think if I practice on these roughs some more, I'll be able to implement it at the class. The drawing is of arm bones from the Anatomy book.

[gkrit]

first pic's great and its good to see u do studies.
of course this stuff can only make u better so keep at it

[JFierce]

Ah I've been there with the drawing anime thing
Its a hard habit to break out of


But it looks like your workin on your studies so just keep drawing


Post more!

[FlameDragon]

Yep, hopefully with all this drawing I'll see improvement soon!

[hmanafi]

Hey Flame,
Don't waste your time by studying multiple figure drawing books at one time.
choose one of them and study it daily and step by step and you will notice your improvement.
Another thing,I think you noticed the difference between drawing from life and drawing from flat photographs.So draw from life as much as you can(after studying your favorite figure drawing book you can apply its approach to your life drawings)
And it's not important to learn all aspects of drawing right now.Focus on the subject you like to draw it.even in figure drawing classes,there is a step by step learning.for example first they learn simple perspective,then drawing simple shapes in perspective,then ... .So when they are learning perspective,they will focus on perspective,no composition,figure,etc.

And thanks for your comment in my sketchbook.

[Rezeroth]

Once my life drawing instructor told me that, you must FEEL the gesture in order to capture it. Just drawing exactly what you see will not be sufficient. Try thinking like why does the arm deform like that when i twist it? Which muscle goes where? understanding and not memorizing is better. Just my opinion though :) But its great that you have the intention and focus. Try not to compare to others/peers. I know its hard and difficult to do but at least try, that way you'll prolly be able to work with less stress and try to have more fun with drawing then just focusing strictly on improving.. :yayca:

[FlameDragon]

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I was going all over the place by looking at an anatomy book, then a perspective book, then art theory book. I should focus on one (like the perspective) and then use what I learn to inform my study of the next (anatomy)

[FlameDragon]

The drawing of Glacier I posted in the Critique forum, yesterday I tweaked it a bit

[Rabid]

You are destined for a new and more rewarding (less anime) lifestyle! Can't wait to see your progression! Beat the shit out of yourself if you don't do a sketch a day because that is a great idea and is really going to improve you fast! And if you don't, well I guess I could beat the shit out of you... but it would require payment for the bus fee to go to your home and do so ;)

[FlameDragon]

Yeah! I really wanted to do a sketch every day but then I'll be having to study for finals, plus I'm a bit depressed from a situation. Once finals finish though, I'll be able to do alot more drawings to upload every single day.

[FlameDragon]

Drawing I just did for a friend

[FlameDragon]

Some exercises from Seedling's Concept Art 101

[UriL]

Nice stuff, not so much to give any serious critic, but you seem to be doing great, just keep going, good luck.

[FlameDragon]

Shadow exercise done from Seedling's tutorial

Drawing some bones and muscle from Sheppard's anatomy book

[FlameDragon]

More figures

[FlameDragon]

Another one of the poses I owed

[FlameDragon]

Lots of drawings today. One is a gesture from a photo, the next is drawings from Bridgman, then the next 5 are from life drawing today

[FlameDragon]

More Bridgman sketches

[Emergence]

nice sketches.
i like the gesture of the one on the right.

[FlameDragon]

nice sketches.
i like the gesture of the one on the right.

thanks!

[FlameDragon]

Went to life drawing again today

[FlameDragon]

Just another Bridgman sketch

[arttorney]

Your diligence will pay off. I already think a lot of the stuff from the life class is showing your observational skills developing. We all just need to believe in ourselves enough to do the necessary practicing. There's no magic shortcut.

[FlameDragon]

Your diligence will pay off. I already think a lot of the stuff from the life class is showing your observational skills developing. We all just need to believe in ourselves enough to do the necessary practicing. There's no magic shortcut.

Thanks. I noticed I've been having an easier time with the gestures, though still need to work on it alot more. Still having trouble with the shading in the longer poses.

[Nettle_Mountain]

Good start, you are on the right track with this anatomy course. Now we need more of free sketching without reference, like humans in different poses.
Remember also to draw something that amuses you, no one lives only on bread and water :yum:

[Nettle_Mountain]

Good start, you are on the right track with this anatomy course. Now we need more of free sketching without reference, like humans in different poses.
Remember also to draw something that amuses you, no one lives only on bread and water :yum:

[FlameDragon]

Good start, you are on the right track with this anatomy course. Now we need more of free sketching without reference, like humans in different poses.
Remember also to draw something that amuses you, no one lives only on bread and water :yum:

You mean humans in different poses, like drawing gestures of people outside, or you mean from my mind?

[Nettle_Mountain]

Sorry, i wasn't too clear about this. What i mean is when you feel you have grasped human anatomy somewhat you have to start drawing people in different poses from your mind (beside reference studies), trying to see posture (is this the word? pose?) in your head before drawing it to the paper.

[FlameDragon]

Sorry, i wasn't too clear about this. What i mean is when you feel you have grasped human anatomy somewhat you have to start drawing people in different poses from your mind (beside reference studies), trying to see posture (is this the word? pose?) in your head before drawing it to the paper.

I see what you mean. That may be a while, I haven't grasped the anatomy well enough yet. Hopefully this year I'll have enough of a grasp to start trying that, since it will be a necessary skill if I want to do character designs.

[FlameDragon]

Drawing lower body from Goettfried Bammes' book

[FlameDragon]

Some bones form Sheppard's book

[FlameDragon]

Need to get the shading alot better

[FlameDragon]

Life drawings from the other day, I think that time produced my best ones!

[FlameDragon]

Some from yesterday

[FlameDragon]

Had another person do a pose, she did this pose pretty well

[hmanafi]

How are you man?
you improved very much,and i realized that the life drawing can help me very much when i saw your progress in figure drawing,so thank you very much.
your sense of shading is getting a lot better.
my critique is : try to analyze your figure beside gesture drawing.I'm the worst at analyzing,but i know how much it will help a person at drawing figures.
keep it up man.

[FlameDragon]

How are you man?
you improved very much,and i realized that the life drawing can help me very much when i saw your progress in figure drawing,so thank you very much.
your sense of shading is getting a lot better.
my critique is : try to analyze your figure beside gesture drawing.I'm the worst at analyzing,but i know how much it will help a person at drawing figures.
keep it up man.

I'm doing good. Thanks, glad to hear I had that impact :) Yeah I definitely need to analyze when doing the gestures and longer poses. I mean they've started coming out better, but I still have to look for shapes and capturing the essence, rather than trying to draw every single part I see.

[FlameDragon]

Drawing of a friend for her birthday

[FlameDragon]

Person I talk to on deviantart, one of the few people I've come across who can do alot of flexible poses (though the one pictured here isnt necessarily in that vein)!

[Justin.]

Life drawings from the other day, I think that time produced my best ones!


I agree; this day you really nailed the right lines! Keep up the sketching! Life drawing is super important!

(Anytime you want me to stop by, just let me know! This sketchbook deserves more attention.)

Also, try putting a link to it in your signature; more people will go to it.

[FlameDragon]

I agree; this day you really nailed the right lines! Keep up the sketching! Life drawing is super important!

(Anytime you want me to stop by, just let me know! This sketchbook deserves more attention.)

Also, try putting a link to it in your signature; more people will go to it.

Thanks very much! It was interesting, when I first saw that model I was kind of disappointed but he actually turned out to be inspiring!

[eskanto]

your anatomy drawings really looked like they've improved! just one crit: when you scratch/drag your pencil when you draw you get those "furry" lines that you have on contour anatomy drawings. Make confident, decisive strokes, even if you think it may be wrong. You'll learn from it anyway. Just lay it down lightly at first.


btw, i like the girl standing on her head. :)

[HunterKiller_]

Hey dude.
You're definitely on the right track.

Keep up the life drawing. When you don't have life drawing classes, draw random objects from life - it's just as important.

Keep it up.

[FlameDragon]

your anatomy drawings really looked like they've improved! just one crit: when you scratch/drag your pencil when you draw you get those "furry" lines that you have on contour anatomy drawings. Make confident, decisive strokes, even if you think it may be wrong. You'll learn from it anyway. Just lay it down lightly at first.


btw, i like the girl standing on her head. :)

Thanks, I'll try that!

[FlameDragon]

Hey dude.
You're definitely on the right track.

Keep up the life drawing. When you don't have life drawing classes, draw random objects from life - it's just as important.

Keep it up.

I definitely will :)

[Sorknes]

Yeah, your lifedrawings shows progress indeed. :) Especially the man like you said. :)

Also, the woman standing on her head is also very nice, as said. :)

Keep going, you'll only get better, and lifedrawing is something that helps a lot for shade, shape, form and anatomy :) Not to mention to get more secure and faster lines. :)

It looks like that a lot of them are kroki? Like they stay in poses for just a short time before they move to a new one?

And like you said in the thread. Whenever you have time. On the bus, on the subway, ten minutes before you go to bed, a short sketch waiting for the food to get warm. It all helps :)

[FlameDragon]

Yeah, your lifedrawings shows progress indeed. :) Especially the man like you said. :)

Also, the woman standing on her head is also very nice, as said. :)

Keep going, you'll only get better, and lifedrawing is something that helps a lot for shade, shape, form and anatomy :) Not to mention to get more secure and faster lines. :)

It looks like that a lot of them are kroki? Like they stay in poses for just a short time before they move to a new one?

And like you said in the thread. Whenever you have time. On the bus, on the subway, ten minutes before you go to bed, a short sketch waiting for the food to get warm. It all helps :)

Thanks :) Yeah I really have to get back in the habit of going to life drawing, I haven't been there in nearly 2 months. I know the habits cultivated in life drawing are integral to concept art.

Well for those recent ones from life drawing that I uploaded, I was doing decent with the gestures but some of the longer ones I didnt upload. I'm contemplating whether to upload all of the life drawings or just the better ones.

[eskanto]

Heeeey Flame, what up?
This drawing looks good. Good work. (This is for the drawing below). I had a teacher (Gregg Kruetz) for life drawing at art students league who taugh me to draw the biggest shadow shapes first in the form, then go from there. It felt awkard fro me, even hard but it helped when I got used to it. Let me know if you need more info on that, I can probably fish out some of my old notes/sketches from that class. :) Moar drawin' NOW!!!

[FlameDragon]

Haven't been to life drawing in quite some time (going on 2 months it seems), so still using photos. I was going to go this morning but I had alot of eye pain, which ended up subsiding a few hours later.

[FlameDragon]

Heeeey Flame, what up?
This drawing looks good. Good work. (This is for the drawing below). I had a teacher (Gregg Kruetz) for life drawing at art students league who taugh me to draw the biggest shadow shapes first in the form, then go from there. It felt awkard fro me, even hard but it helped when I got used to it. Let me know if you need more info on that, I can probably fish out some of my old notes/sketches from that class. :) Moar drawin' NOW!!!

Thanks! Sure, you can tell me more info on that! I've been looking for alternate approaches, especially on shading. Wish my teacher at the art students league taught me something, in the month I was there I didnt learn anything!

[Moftah]

very nice keep it up and post more :)

Moftah's Sketchbook

[FlameDragon]

very nice keep it up and post more :)

Moftah's Sketchbook

Thanks, I will :)

[FlameDragon]

I actually like the life drawing class at the art students league the first day I went. We had a great model, she did quite inspiring poses. And I like that the instructors played music!

[MattGamer]

keep the studying going! looks like
you are learning and your figures are
great. work slow and concentrate on
every stroke. ;)

[FlameDragon]

keep the studying going! looks like
you are learning and your figures are
great. work slow and concentrate on
every stroke. ;)

Thanks, I'll definitely do that! Unfortunately, lately I haven't been to life drawing in about 3 months (since early to mid February) due to so much work and tests and relatives visiting and sickness and papers. Since finals are next week, I probably wont be free to go until a week from Sunday.

[FlameDragon]

I finally went back to life drawing on Sunday. I was so rusty that my works were coming out pretty bad, so I wont post them. Here's a drawing from photo that I liked

[The Pariano]

Flamedragon:
Since the beginning of this sketchbook your lines have improved very much. They have evolved from the scratchy mess to the clean and more confident ones I see in your life drawings now. but now that you have become more economical in your lines you should start to think about modulating them. putting pressure on the pencil do make thick dark strokes, and using the lightest touch to make thin light lines. Right now all of your lines are very uniform and its hard to show any form or even make them look interesting at the moment.
For your more completed drawings, your lines are dominating over value which is the important part for showing the forms, this is one of the reasons why your drawings dont look 3d like you were talking about in the studies and discovery forum. Your latest drawing is nice, her right leg does seem to emerge and come at us. You need to push your values more. Next time you work from life or reference try and first block in lightly the major areas of shadow that should help to produce the form, and then put in the darkest darks in the image. One thing to note is that graphite has the least range of values of the drawing media( unless you decided to experiment with like silverpoint or something :P), and you have to compensate by pushing your values more than you would think to than say charcoal.
my writing is never very structured but I hope that helped you atleast a little bit!

[fantasyartist]

I saw your thread in the fine arts,studies & discovery section. Your life drawings are looking great. You just need to be bolder with your forms. You have to thinks in 3d all the time. Now it seems that on some parts you're thinking about forms while other parts like the feet get a very flat treatment. If you want your figures to look more 3d, spent some times drawing basic forms correctly in perspective and light them from all angles, like the concept art 101 excercise you did before. Take a look at bridgman's books if you haven't already. He abstracts the human forms to very understandable basic cubical forms. I found that having these abstractions in mind when drawing really helps me to understand what I'm looking at. I hope you can get something out of this. Keep working hard!

[FlameDragon]

Flamedragon:
Since the beginning of this sketchbook your lines have improved very much. They have evolved from the scratchy mess to the clean and more confident ones I see in your life drawings now. but now that you have become more economical in your lines you should start to think about modulating them. putting pressure on the pencil do make thick dark strokes, and using the lightest touch to make thin light lines. Right now all of your lines are very uniform and its hard to show any form or even make them look interesting at the moment.
For your more completed drawings, your lines are dominating over value which is the important part for showing the forms, this is one of the reasons why your drawings dont look 3d like you were talking about in the studies and discovery forum. Your latest drawing is nice, her right leg does seem to emerge and come at us. You need to push your values more. Next time you work from life or reference try and first block in lightly the major areas of shadow that should help to produce the form, and then put in the darkest darks in the image. One thing to note is that graphite has the least range of values of the drawing media( unless you decided to experiment with like silverpoint or something :P), and you have to compensate by pushing your values more than you would think to than say charcoal.
my writing is never very structured but I hope that helped you atleast a little bit!

Yeah, one of my biggest problems if focusing too much on contour. I have to try much harder to break that habit. From stuff I've read on here and books I've read, I think my issues are stemming from the initial block-in stage, since I doubt I do that. It's supposed to lay the foundation for the drawing, and instead I just start at a part like the eye and try drawing the whole thing. Pushing the values is something else I can do too, probably by switching to a softer lead for those areas. Thanks!

[FlameDragon]

I saw your thread in the fine arts,studies & discovery section. Your life drawings are looking great. You just need to be bolder with your forms. You have to thinks in 3d all the time. Now it seems that on some parts you're thinking about forms while other parts like the feet get a very flat treatment. If you want your figures to look more 3d, spent some times drawing basic forms correctly in perspective and light them from all angles, like the concept art 101 excercise you did before. Take a look at bridgman's books if you haven't already. He abstracts the human forms to very understandable basic cubical forms. I found that having these abstractions in mind when drawing really helps me to understand what I'm looking at. I hope you can get something out of this. Keep working hard!

I have Bridgman, have to start using it more thoroughly then! I definitely need to regard the body in terms of shapes, and by practicing drawing those shapes in perspective and with shadows like you said, I think it'll really improve my works.

[timpaatkins]

Hey man, are you at FIT? I recognize the fat bald dude you see on page two, hes one of the model/model coordinators there, I didn't know he did nude though. He has a whole collection of big ass swords.

[Warforce17]

You mean humans in different poses, like drawing gestures of people outside, or you mean from my mind?

I think both would help.
If you watch people and draw them you will have a huge number of forms.
With this huge number you can draw a lot from mind

And I really like your second post. (bones)

Keep drawing and updating.

[FlameDragon]

Hey man, are you at FIT? I recognize the fat bald dude you see on page two, hes one of the model/model coordinators there, I didn't know he did nude though. He has a whole collection of big ass swords.

Really?? Cool. No I'm not at any official art school/class, this is at open drawing sessions at Spring Studios (SOHO). His poses were so inspiring. He should model with the swords!

[FlameDragon]

Stock photo I really liked, I didnt intend on drawing the whole thing, but as it progressed I was pleased with how it was coming out. Should have drawn it further to the right so that the arm wouldn't have gone out of frame.

[FlameDragon]

Practicing shadows

[FlameDragon]

Sketches from Vilppu figure drawing manual

416722

[FlameDragon]

Here's some from life drawing today:

418928
418930
418931
418932
418933

[rpace]

Hi,
These are better, but there's stil some pretty basic work to be done.
You're still running along the contours too much; stay within the form. You're searching for what can only be described as a line of energy moving through the form, not around it.
One way to think of this is that you're tracing a black thread through the middle of the mass of the body. Sometimes that thread is pulled tight or bends sharply, sometimes it gently curves or flows through and you have to represent that with your pencil marks (I recco a 5 or 6B to start).

Gonna pick on one of them a bit -- hope that's okay. Overall, it seems a little of an impossible pose, but it could be from my misunderstanding what you've drawn -- I'm going to run with it anyway.

1. At this point it looks the the ribcage is twisting away from the pelvis, and this is hard to see/feel since it's represented by three parallel lines of roughly equal weight and thickness -- several exploratory lines made with a much lighter hand would have allowed you numerous attempts to capture this.

2. I'm guessing the pelvis if facing us but tipped sharply down -- again, several lines venturing through the pelvic area would have given you a shot at getting the feel of how the flesh and bone are working and connecting to the rest of the body.

3. The bone of the knee has a hardness to it, and often, when bent, there's a decided amount of weight and tension running through the area -- a hard line could often be called for here and made darker by frequent explorations through the figure. I've developed the bad habit of ticking joints -- pausing to indicate them instead of letting the line flow through the whole and allowing the joints to emerge like the rest of the figure.

4. I'm not really sure how that leg is working -- I'm guessing perspective and a certain flexibility are at work. A line through the mass might have given a slightly better feel for placement.

5. Feet have to touch the ground. A mantra I beat into my students' heads was that everything the model is interacting with becomes a part of the pose and must be included. I believe the floor is a part of this, too. How the foot connects to the ground is as important as what the hands may be holding. I'm not suggesting drawing the entire stage, but use your line and line weight to indicate the weight and tension (or lack thereof) on the foot, or any part of the body in contact with the floor.

I did a gesture over top of yours -- not a great one by any stretch -- but only to give an option of where you could move. The lines are moving through the forms, for the most part. Some lines try to feel the pull and twist of the ribcage turning away from the pelvis. Finding such lines traveling across the form may be a little too advanced for you yet, but an indication of the next step couldn't hurt. Hopefully you can feel the twist and weight through the body. In case I completely bolluxed it, I did a quick manekin to show what I thought your model was doing.

Gonna leave the longer studies be, since they are largely a different animal from gentures at this point.

Hope this helps,

~R

[FlameDragon]

Hi,
These are better, but there's stil some pretty basic work to be done.
You're still running along the contours too much; stay within the form. You're searching for what can only be described as a line of energy moving through the form, not around it.
One way to think of this is that you're tracing a black thread through the middle of the mass of the body. Sometimes that thread is pulled tight or bends sharply, sometimes it gently curves or flows through and you have to represent that with your pencil marks (I recco a 5 or 6B to start).

Gonna pick on one of them a bit -- hope that's okay. Overall, it seems a little of an impossible pose, but it could be from my misunderstanding what you've drawn -- I'm going to run with it anyway.

1. At this point it looks the the ribcage is twisting away from the pelvis, and this is hard to see/feel since it's represented by three parallel lines of roughly equal weight and thickness -- several exploratory lines made with a much lighter hand would have allowed you numerous attempts to capture this.

2. I'm guessing the pelvis if facing us but tipped sharply down -- again, several lines venturing through the pelvic area would have given you a shot at getting the feel of how the flesh and bone are working and connecting to the rest of the body.

3. The bone of the knee has a hardness to it, and often, when bent, there's a decided amount of weight and tension running through the area -- a hard line could often be called for here and made darker by frequent explorations through the figure. I've developed the bad habit of ticking joints -- pausing to indicate them instead of letting the line flow through the whole and allowing the joints to emerge like the rest of the figure.

4. I'm not really sure how that leg is working -- I'm guessing perspective and a certain flexibility are at work. A line through the mass might have given a slightly better feel for placement.

5. Feet have to touch the ground. A mantra I beat into my students' heads was that everything the model is interacting with becomes a part of the pose and must be included. I believe the floor is a part of this, too. How the foot connects to the ground is as important as what the hands may be holding. I'm not suggesting drawing the entire stage, but use your line and line weight to indicate the weight and tension (or lack thereof) on the foot, or any part of the body in contact with the floor.

I did a gesture over top of yours -- not a great one by any stretch -- but only to give an option of where you could move. The lines are moving through the forms, for the most part. Some lines try to feel the pull and twist of the ribcage turning away from the pelvis. Finding such lines traveling across the form may be a little too advanced for you yet, but an indication of the next step couldn't hurt. Hopefully you can feel the twist and weight through the body. In case I completely bolluxed it, I did a quick manekin to show what I thought your model was doing.

Gonna leave the longer studies be, since they are largely a different animal from gentures at this point.

Hope this helps,

~R


Thanks very much for the critique. Yeah I didn't do this gesture well at all, but with practice I'll get better. When I see your gesture over mine, it does look like an impossible pose. I didn't convey it well, but his ribcage wasn't facing the left that much. His right leg was supposed to be curving to face forward, and the left leg was supposed to be further back, but still facing forward a bit, and that foot facing the side.

Are there any exercises I can do to practice on gestures at home before I go to life drawing again?

I really am grateful for your assistance, not many people out there who would try to be this helpful! And looking at your sketchblog, you're a pretty great artist so you're able to relay the tactics that facilitated reaching the level that you have.

[rpace]

Best thing would be to do gestures of people on the go -- hit the mall, a local park or a local train station and draw the people as quickly as you can -- no more than 10-20 seconds per gesture. Do these for an hour or so every day and you should start to see improvement.

~R

[FlameDragon]

Best thing would be to do gestures of people on the go -- hit the mall, a local park or a local train station and draw the people as quickly as you can -- no more than 10-20 seconds per gesture. Do these for an hour or so every day and you should start to see improvement.

~R

I'll try those. Another thing I started trying was sitting at a window seat on the bus, and trying to draw people as I pass by them. Since I'll only be seeing the person for about 5 seconds, it forces me to focus on the pose rather than the details. Also I think I'll revisit many of the basics of drawings, I think that my lack of a strong foundation has been causing alot of my problems.

[rpace]

Yeah -- so many difficulties come from foundation issues.

Looking forward to seeing your next gestures.

~R

[ArtZealot]

Hey, i saw your post in the lounge and thought i'd stop by your sketchbook. You have some great stuff in here. i can see from page 1-3 already your figures are improving. To crit anything, the figure on post 67 has some proportion issues. I think i read you post and you mentioned the arm falling off, but what caught my eye first was the legs.

Usually when i'm checking leg proportions when they're fully extended like that i measure from the top of the head to the top of the groin, to be exact theres really no better way to say it than right where the the base of the top of the dick meets the groin or where that general area would be on a female is almost exactly half of the figure. measure the same distance down from there for rough leg proportions or just to check. It's served me fairly well so far. Hope that helps. Congrats on the one year C.A anniversary.

[Maxine Schacker]

In reference to earlier posted drawings of clothed models:

As Hale always said, drawing is about running lines over conceived form. What that means is that first you have to project a three dimensional form on the page. If the upper leg is, in its most general incarnation, a cylinder passing into a block, you need to be able to run lines over the cylinder and the block that describe the forms they are running over. Lines that don't do this hinder the illusion and are meaningless.

You might start by just drawing basic forms in every imaginable position and running lines over them. Try the cylinder, the box, the pyramid. When you return to drawing the model remember that she is made up of a series of 3 dimensional forms. If she is wearing clothing, the clothing's form is determined by her body underneath. Therefore, the folds in the clothing must follow the form they travel over.

The Nicolaides exercise in blind contour is about getting you to feel the turn of the form in space (using your sense of touch).

You might also consider buying a copy of "Drawing Lessons From The Great Masters," by Robert Beverly Hale.

In reference to gestures": gesture is about following the flow of energy through the body. You own Nicolaides, so read what he says and follow his directions (forget the illustrations). At first it's enough to just follow the direction (from the inside) of the energy in space. I suggest that you look at the "Nicolaides thread." You'll see the progress of someone who is actually going through the whole course of study outlined in the book. You'll also find suggestions and critiques.

When you are feeling and drawing the gesture of the legs run the initial line from the CENTER of the thigh
rather than the contour (which isn't center). The center is actually in line with the secondary points of the pelvis, just below the pelvic points (which stick out on thin models). Try to feel that you are in the center of
the cylindrical mass of the leg. listen to Nicolaides, and at first don't worry ab out the drawing! Let your hand and drawing implement range and travel with what you are feeling and where you are traveling in space. Have fun with it.

[kevinwueste]

hmanafi and rpace had some good feedback ( among lots of generally good ideas).. and since you asked me specifically - here's what I think.

1. If you decide you are serious about drawing ( and/or painting) the figure - great! -- now you need to buckle down and plan on drawing almost every daya ( draw draw draw!) .
2. if you live in NYC, you have figure drawing groups you can hit pretty much every day ( spring street, Art Students league, etc.,) -also - drop in to Grand Central Academy during a weekday and check out an excellent atelier near you ( run by Jacob Collins - look him up!) - they are at 20 W 44th street near Grand Central Station.
3. Also - get into a Michael Grimaldi figure drawing class at the league ( on W 57th if I recall correctly).

post 52 - i think it was of a nude woman is not bad!
4. the idea of doing lots of master copy figure drawings while also developing your own work from life is a solid one. your book list is good - here is my list in sort-of an order for you:

5. download all the Andrew loomis books online - they're free - start copying in charcoal ( forgiving ) on smooth newsprint (cheap and forgiving); but also learn why he is doing what he is doing - what makes a "handsome man" a "pretty girl" and figure it out. see how he relates shapes to each other and uses sweeping curves, S-curves and forms to give shapes beauty and drama.
5a. bridgman - which you already have - good for learning basic shapes
5b. Vanderpoel - great anatomy book and cheap (and read the book too!)
5c. Barrett figure book - just get that now!
you have tony ryder's book which is great as I am studying w/Tony at present ( just begin the year with him)... but to copy him is challenging until you can uncoad a bit of technique and value understanding.. he is a very focused, almost technical ( but clearly emotional painter/draw-er)..
5d. check out Henry Yan's book on figure drawing. Henry is a teacher of mine ( though you can't tell for looking !@#$^$) and his book can inspire!
5e. if you haven't run out of money - get one of zhao ming Wu's "sketch" books and get a good Norman Rockwell book as well for your collection.. Frazetta, Wrightson, McGinnis, Elvgren Girls, Leydendecker - start checking stuff out to add to your knowledge of what good work is ( lots to see - sorr if you already know all this!)
I think it's fine to work in line as long as you are thinking about key form, core and cast shadows that support the basic two dimensional forms. always always think about big shapes, and related shapes.. start generally - a head is a spher, a pelvis is a rectangle/box etc., let your lines sweep and don't worry that they aren't exact.. the block-in is your friend (see ryder and bridgman.. bridgman is almost all block in.. construction and insertion of forms.

on this site, check out raileyh, e. m gist, csears and mr whitaker, kev ferrara .. - all really get how to build forms and do it beautifully ( there are many others who are excellent - but this folks might also be good reference people for you..

ok that's a lot of stuff.. feel free to ask me any questions! good luck man! and thanks for the kind thoughts!

kevin

[p sage]

Very nice progress so far. Update?

[FlameDragon]

hmanafi and rpace had some good feedback ( among lots of generally good ideas).. and since you asked me specifically - here's what I think.

1. If you decide you are serious about drawing ( and/or painting) the figure - great! -- now you need to buckle down and plan on drawing almost every daya ( draw draw draw!) .
2. if you live in NYC, you have figure drawing groups you can hit pretty much every day ( spring street, Art Students league, etc.,) -also - drop in to Grand Central Academy during a weekday and check out an excellent atelier near you ( run by Jacob Collins - look him up!) - they are at 20 W 44th street near Grand Central Station.
3. Also - get into a Michael Grimaldi figure drawing class at the league ( on W 57th if I recall correctly).

post 52 - i think it was of a nude woman is not bad!
4. the idea of doing lots of master copy figure drawings while also developing your own work from life is a solid one. your book list is good - here is my list in sort-of an order for you:

5. download all the Andrew loomis books online - they're free - start copying in charcoal ( forgiving ) on smooth newsprint (cheap and forgiving); but also learn why he is doing what he is doing - what makes a "handsome man" a "pretty girl" and figure it out. see how he relates shapes to each other and uses sweeping curves, S-curves and forms to give shapes beauty and drama.
5a. bridgman - which you already have - good for learning basic shapes
5b. Vanderpoel - great anatomy book and cheap (and read the book too!)
5c. Barrett figure book - just get that now!
you have tony ryder's book which is great as I am studying w/Tony at present ( just begin the year with him)... but to copy him is challenging until you can uncoad a bit of technique and value understanding.. he is a very focused, almost technical ( but clearly emotional painter/draw-er)..
5d. check out Henry Yan's book on figure drawing. Henry is a teacher of mine ( though you can't tell for looking !@#$^$) and his book can inspire!
5e. if you haven't run out of money - get one of zhao ming Wu's "sketch" books and get a good Norman Rockwell book as well for your collection.. Frazetta, Wrightson, McGinnis, Elvgren Girls, Leydendecker - start checking stuff out to add to your knowledge of what good work is ( lots to see - sorr if you already know all this!)
I think it's fine to work in line as long as you are thinking about key form, core and cast shadows that support the basic two dimensional forms. always always think about big shapes, and related shapes.. start generally - a head is a spher, a pelvis is a rectangle/box etc., let your lines sweep and don't worry that they aren't exact.. the block-in is your friend (see ryder and bridgman.. bridgman is almost all block in.. construction and insertion of forms.

on this site, check out raileyh, e. m gist, csears and mr whitaker, kev ferrara .. - all really get how to build forms and do it beautifully ( there are many others who are excellent - but this folks might also be good reference people for you..

ok that's a lot of stuff.. feel free to ask me any questions! good luck man! and thanks for the kind thoughts!

kevin

Thanks, I definitely need to become more serious about drawing. I had been going to Spring Studios for life drawing, taking a life drawing class at the Art Students' League, and also going to this free life drawing session at a library in Manhattan. Yeah, I am greatly inspired by the teachers (especially Collins) and students at the Grand Central Academy! I do hope to attend there one day, I went there a few months ago (classes had just ended) and was impressed with the artworks on the wall.

With the books that I have, and the other resources you recommend I should check out, I'm going to really dedicate myself to understanding these concepts and integrating them into my drawings. I haven't been focusing enough on perceiving the figure in terms of shapes, or focusing on 3-dimensionality (which is why my drawings look flat). My art has languished ever since I got my job and thus was not able to spend as much time on it. I really want to overhaul my approach to drawing before I get a career. Thanks for all the advice!

[FlameDragon]

Very nice progress so far. Update?

Thanks sage. Well, I haven't made as much progress as I would've liked to since then. I had been going to life drawing fairly regularly, but since July 2008 I haven't been back (at least I don't remember going back since then) so I don't have new life drawings to post as of yet. I felt as if I should improve my basics of drawing before going back, so that I would actually get the most out of it. I looked for basic art classes to take, but I couldn't afford the hundreds of dollars. A few months later, I ended up getting a job so now I can afford it, but the classes seem to be offered during the day when I'm working. I'm just going to dedicate myself to setting aside time every day to solidifying my grasp of the principles of art and incorporating them into my drawings, as well as going back to life drawing sessions.

My taste in art has changed as well. At the bookstore one day in late 2008, I was looking through the Classical Painting Atelier book and it really inspired me, especially the page on the artist Bouguereau. I am heavily into 19th century academic art now and hope I can draw similar to those artists.

[UnstableProtagonist]

If you have time, take references from drawings and anatomy studies from Michelangelo and Da Vinci. Burne Hogarth is another artist I hugely recommend. Reading is indeed fundamental when it comes to becoming a better artist.

[FlameDragon]

It looks like it's been 2 years since I posted drawings. In that time I've found alot more inspirational artists and worked on my art quite a bit. I've also started taking art classes. I think that I've improved a great deal since I first came to this site and stated this sketchbook thread. Here is one of my recent drawings, tell me what you think.

[rpace]

Hi,

It's great to see you posting again and the progress is delightful.

I look forward to seeing more.

~R

[FlameDragon]

Thanks. I didn't realize how off my proportions and shading looked then, but I think I've gotten better at those. My instructor helped out alot with conceptualizing how the shadow will be placed on the form. Her idea was that paper value should be the lightest region and, looking back at my older drawings, I see that I left alot of the form as paper value rather than a gradation of value. No wonder my figures used to come out so flat.