I think comic books are an ultimate test...

[FlameDragon]

Well not the ultimate test for an artist, but working on a comic book really does require the artist to use everything he's learned in art and observed in life. He/she practically has to be able to draw the human body in any conceivable pose (and the faces with myriad emotions), from any conceivable angle (I'd rejoice the day I reach that stage!). He has to be able to many different items as well (though usually weapons), and the scenery/backgrounds! They have to be done detailed enough that you actually feel as if you are inside that world. Especially things like drawing regular people in the background going on about their life. Most of these have to come from imagination, as the script only goes so far (that UDON Street Fighter issue that is all pencils and shows you the exact script really gives insight). You have to have good composition, cropping, perspective, and other different art techniques such as speed lines for each panel so as to convey the story the best to the reader. You really have to had mentally recorded everything you've encountered in life. And you have to do all these things about 100 times (4-5 panels for about 20 pages)! That's why I feel each panel can stand on its own as a piece of art. I remember seeing an interview where the artist said that this one panel alone took 25 hours! I think Jim Lee said it best when he said it's like a movie, except the artist is the camera man, the props guy, the lighting crew, the one who picks out the outfits...

What do you guys think about this?

[Flake]

What do you guys think about this?

From my limited noob perspective, I'd tend to agree. If you can paint an awesome comic book, then technically there's probably not that much you couldn't paint.
Kinda like how I'd expect an awesome jazz or speed metal band to be able to play pretty much anything that you put in front of them.
Now writing that awesome comic, that's a different thing altogether..


I think Jim Lee said it best when he said it's like a movie, except the artist is the camera man, the props guy, the lighting crew, the one who picks out the outfits...

^
This.
I've always admired good comic book guys because of this, they're like movie directors but they only get a pencil/ink/ps.

Also the deadlines they work with make my head hurt just thinking about them.

Much respect to comic chaps.

[Grief]

buy this book (http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-Mccloud/dp/006097625X/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195258307&sr=8-2). read it. and you'll find yourself in love with the endless possibilities comics can become.

he mastery of any form of art is the same as it is for the creation of comics.

chapter 7 "The Six Steps" deals with this process of mastering the art.
Idea (purpose), Form, Idiom, Structure, Craft, and Surface

[Flake]

Y'know, this thread is unlikely to produce any responses from reasonable people other than "Yeah, good comic guys totally kick ass and I have much respect for their craft and work ethic".

Maybe could we turn it into "Lets all post awesome comic book art" ?

I always feel this forum has too much chat and not enough pictures..

[Ilaekae]

Let's go for it...

[FlameDragon]

Very true. There's a bunch of comic artists I like but instead of posting work only from them, I'll look for good works by other comic artists as well.

[DIMAGYAN]

ok, comics images then?

André Julliard (France)
241107

Hergé (Belgium)
241108

Guido Crepax (Italty)
241116

Horacio Altuna (Argentina)
241110

Alberto Breccia (Argentina)
241111

241117

Domingo Mandrafina (Argentina)
241119

if these are too big tell me and i will change the size

[bhanu]

DImagyan you are at it again arent you boy?

Ilaekae..man can you post some hentai comic stuff too...I saw some pics by okama that you had , I am in love with his work ever since.

[Bowlin]

I agree with you Flamedragon! If only the general public didn't look down on comics, often referring it to something childish, it'd still be thriving. What get's me is that most adults will look down on you if you mention your favorite movies are ones made from comics. Even though they went to see them for themselves and probably bought them, most people won't admit it. Lord of the Rings won most academy awards, grossed an unreal amount of money.... but yet, your still a nerd if you even mention you liked it.

Except on a site like this, I think this happens to comics also. I totally agree that comic artist have to have more knowledge of composition and design to really make successful comic art. I've always been confused why comic artist don't try to make most of their career making another form of art that will make them more successfully. They obviously have to really have a drive for personal reasons... and I admire that.

[jim b]

a comic book artist also needs to master the craft of story telling, which is something not as easily understood as all the technical drawing stuff.

[smugbug]

a comic book artist also needs to master the craft of story telling, which is something not as easily understood as all the technical drawing stuff.

Was going to post something very akin to this. I just mentioned to someone here in another thread that the problem with artists who take on the art of visual storytelling (comic book/graphic novel), they want to be an artist on EVERY SINGLE panel.

And you can't do that. You're a storyteller first. Your primary goal is to keep the story moving.

That was the very best advice I ever heard - and it was Brian Stelfreeze who gave it.

[Vermis]

I kind of agree with what you're saying, but at the same time I think you're laying it on a bit thick. For one thing, I'd tend to view most 'standard' panels as part of a whole, rather than standalone pieces. It's sequential art, remember!

And it depends, IMO. I mean, are we inluding the latest Rob-Liefeld-pencilled, inflataboobs-and-gritted-teeth explodorama? I've seen many beautiful comics from many sources, but I've also seen some real stinkers, that would be an insult to the budgie that needed cage liners.

Here're my selected pages. :)

http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/gallery2/d/10195-1/Meanwhile+1a.jpg
http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/gallery2/d/10197-1/Meanwhile+2a.jpg
Images hosted at cheddarmongers.org

[DIMAGYAN]

bhanu:he, yes. what can i say, any time i found something about comics in here is a good time to post some images.(specially from Breccia)

i agree with what jim b and patriciaS said. comics are storytelling, every panel has a reason to be. every panel should help to the narration. the reading has to be clear.there is many comics out there that are very hard to read because is all gray (composition, drawing, panels, color composition, black and white composition).
also every panel and every page has to be in harmony.
read a good story in a well done narration is a great experience.

[eskanto]

flamedragon, these comic artist can draw a lot of things out of thier heads but for some things i believe they still do research just like every other type of artist. when i was younger i wanted to be a comic book artist, but all the boys were doing it in high school and got intimidated out of it... i would try to draw things in panels but nothing came out right. Joshua Middleton and Chris Bachalo arre my all time fav artists..

[Ilaekae]

bhanu, I'm going through my mangas to see what I can find that would be "postable" here, and I think I can pull off at least something. I also have access to the comics files on a site that I'm an admin for, so I should be able to have something in a couple of days. I like where this thread is going, btw. Lovely samples so far.

[Zaxser]

Geof Darrow Bitch! (http://www.burlymanentertainment.com/press/img/02_shaolin_02_preview.jpg)

Seriously, this is just the tip of the ice burg. Not only does he do comics, but also did the concept work for the Matrix. Does anyone have a hi-res scan of a page from the great big hard boiled? Wouldn't want to steal his work, but some of the pages in it have literally hundreds of people in perspective on a single page.

[eskanto]

it would be REALLY cool if we all posted are own sequential art here... you know kind of like a CHOW OR COW

[Grief]

..huh?

[Ilaekae]

i think it would be really REALLY REALLY cool if "someone" started a thread in the community thing where CHOW and all that stuff is just for sequential art...:confident

[Chris Bennett]

eskanto, that first panel is astonishingly beautiful - who is it and what's it from?

[llothcat]

i think it would be really REALLY REALLY cool if "someone" started a thread in the community thing where CHOW and all that stuff is just for sequential art...:confident

Um, would that hint be directed in my general direction?:D

(I thought there was one there already....)

[Farvus]

Hehe. It could be called POW - Panels of the Week :).

Awesome comic book art? Hmmm... What about "Szninkiel" / "Chninkel" by Grzegorz Rosiński (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Rosiński)
241737

241738

[tensai]

grief - who did that panel? love that stylo

[Grief]

grief - who did that panel? love that stylo

i dunno /o_o\
it's some russian manga i believe.
i found it via a livejournal image hack website (http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/livejournal-pictures.php) i periodically use.

[edit] i just did some intense online image searches until i found the artist.
yana moskaluk (http://kissbycat.com/archiver/?tid-23360.html)
their page is full of broken links, so you'll have to copy/paste the urls to see the work.

[another edit]
ilaekae: Vermis' images are by jhonen vasquez.
i think they're all identified now..

[smugbug]

Geof Darrow Bitch! (http://www.burlymanentertainment.com/press/img/02_shaolin_02_preview.jpg)

Seriously, this is just the tip of the ice burg. Not only does he do comics, but also did the concept work for the Matrix. Does anyone have a hi-res scan of a page from the great big hard boiled? Wouldn't want to steal his work, but some of the pages in it have literally hundreds of people in perspective on a single page.

Comin right up. I have a LOT of Geoff Darrow stuff. Have you seen his recent, "Shaolin Cowboy"?

I really, seriously love his work. So much so, I couldn't approach him at the recent Comic-Con - I knew I'd look like a babbling fool of a fan if I tried.


ETA: BTW, eskanto great stuff. But Colossus looks like he's got boobies (last panel). Heh.

[Ilaekae]

Farvus, I'm thinking that's so much better than my Sequential Unpublished Comic Kompetition (SUCK) or something like that...seemed so appropriate...

The comic you posted--is it native Polish (Artist)? I love it.

llothcat, if we can get one other person to help out with the pressure and paperwork, etc., maybe we can all gang up and start something. We could make it for sequential comic, strips and even panels. I'd go for it if the powers that be will let us...


AND people, when you post the pages, identify the artist/country so we can do some investigating on our own--you have some real comics freaks in this cesspool.

[Farvus]

Eh.. Forgot to write about the artist - it's Grzegorz Rosiński (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Rosiński). Born in Poland but became famous for his comics after he moved to Belgium. I think it was his art that made me start drawing more seriously (anatomy books and all that stuff).

[Grief]

Scott Pilgrim has been more delightful than warm laundry and kittens.
(bryan lee o'malley)

in fact anything by Oni Press (http://www.onipress.com/) probably is too cool for its own good.

[smugbug]

Geoff Darrow (Hard Boiled, US. Dark Horse Comics. © 1990 Frank Miller & Geoff Darrow).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/2041384681_be56437d21_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2041384689_12cd66d2f9_o.jpg

And should never forget to include a splash page - as Mistuh Darrow is a mastuh of the splash page.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2328/2041384693_7f45e93554_o.jpg

[smugbug]

And now, Simon Bisley. "Judgement on Gotham" 1991, DC Comics.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2198/2041384695_a597392c5f_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2129/2041384701_f0f347df7d_o.jpg

[DIMAGYAN]

llothcat, if we can get one other person to help out with the pressure and paperwork, etc., maybe we can all gang up and start something. We could make it for sequential comic, strips and even panels. I'd go for it if the powers that be will let us...
.

that is a very good idea. have a sort of storytelling activity in here would be great

[Emerald_Mara85]

wow can I post too?
Here is a 2 page of Alichino by Kouyu Shurei

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/EmeraldMara85/Alichinov03c12024-025.jpg

It was soo cinematic like Clamp's Clover, I love it instantly
I'm using this manga series as my reseach (on the paneling). Oh yeah, I'm entering in this online comic contest. When I've done my pencils, can I post it here?

Can we also talk about how comic paneling is done here?
Comics have their own fomulas at least that's what I think!

[idoru]

Oh do I ever love me some Kouyuu Shurei. I was so disappointed when the Labyrinth comic project only had Shurei COVERS. ; _ ; As for good comic art...

Becky Cloonan channels some major awesome. I love her inks.
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs19/f/2007/256/f/c/wrist_hurts_by_stabstabstab.jpg

Ashley Wood...
http://astrology.web.net/files/astrology.web.net/images/Amount%20of%20Fay_Ashley%20Wood%20copy.preview.jpg

And then there's David Mack. How can you forget David Mack?
http://davidmackguide.com/portfolio/kabuki/previews/vol02/images/dreamsofthedeadsample03-large.jpg

http://davidmackguide.com/portfolio/kabuki/previews/vol07/images/issue06sample02-large.jpg

I would LOVE to see a comics-related ANYTHING around here. :3 It'd be so great.

[Zaxser]

As an artist, Michael Zulli has to be the best with the possible exception of Dave McKean. He's got an online gallery, (http://www.michaelzulli.com/NEW/gallery.htm) but finding his sequentials are a pain.
http://membres.lycos.fr/mergruen/zulli.jpg

[Ilaekae]

There seems to be at least some interest in having a sequential art competition similar to 3CH and COW among at least some of the members. I'm not sure how long we could keep it going because it could be a real bitch actually compared to the other competitions--you'd need to be able to write as well as draw, and many of our events would have to be multi-week because of the amount of work needed to finish them.

If there's enough interest, and the admins/mods don't have a problem with it, I'd be willing to put together something to get it at least started, but I would definitely need some help to keep it running. I have a heavy mentor load, and Seedling and I are still in the early stages of the open classroom project.

I have heavy experience in cartooning in every media known to man, from political to humor, and a long term involvement in the production end of things, including some techniques that aren't used anymore because of the intro of computers. My bad points are a total lack of a sense of humor, and a total inability to form coherent sentences, but I could probably muddle through til someone who actually had an operating brain came along.

Any interest in taking part in any comps we come with, or in giving a bit of help in getting it up and running? Any opinions one way or the other?

[bhanu]

Ilaekae -I am in for the POW .SUCK Thingie.....

Twice I have tried to post stuff and now I am pissed, twice my PC rebooted for no reason whatsoever.
Still I will take another shot.
Bill sienkiewicz father of cool american comics
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4104/30days81fullji5.jpg

Travis Charest
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6901/ultimatesagapgou4.jpg

Mind Doyle
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4438/devilblues02ne5.jpg

Victor De La Fuente
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3435/hagg24aw8.jpg

[bhanu]

some more
Tony Sandoval
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8894/sophiepage2bytonysandovkb6.jpg

Frederick Peeters(I think)
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z299/altoydelgado/Frederik%20Peeters/fredeerik02.jpg

Mick Mcmahon
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/530/lapageol6.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/530/lapageol6.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6757/lastamerican001of04pg14zr7.jpg


I can help out in the modding if you want...Anything for comics and CA, I say.ACtually I so want to be a contributor if its comics. I thik conceptart.org needs more comics...I am still a noob in comics , but still gimme a try....
LEts do it..

[Brendan N]

Ilaekae, I'd love to see a Comic Competition on here, definitely something I'd have a stab at as much as I can.

I do have one suggestion. I think to make the workload less, and to be able to turn it into a competition, we should make the outcome a short of sorts. So, you're actually limited to 5 or 6 pages or whatever, and you HAVE to tell your story within this limit. We did this at school and it was a great way to practice every aspect of your art to best and most quickly convey your idea.
Just a suggestion though.

Anycase, I have little going on now so lemme know if I can help out setting this thing up at all.

Oh, and I don't think I saw McKean yet. Just started really looking at his work this past week, blown away:

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/m/mckean_dave/mckean_blackorchid1991.jpg

http://lambiek.net/artists/m/mckean_dave/mckean_dave1.jpg

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/m/mckean_dave/mckean_cages1992.jpg

http://www.erlangen.de/de/Portaldata/1/Resources/010_bildpool/kultur_erleben/bildergalerie/internationaler_comic_salon/McKean_pict_that_tick_page.jpg

[smugbug]

Ilaekae, I'd love to see a Comic Competition on here, definitely something I'd have a stab at as much as I can.

I do have one suggestion. I think to make the workload less, and to be able to turn it into a competition, we should make the outcome a short of sorts. So, you're actually limited to 5 or 6 pages or whatever, and you HAVE to tell your story within this limit. We did this at school and it was a great way to practice every aspect of your art to best and most quickly convey your idea.
Just a suggestion though.



At the Cons, the requirement is 3-pages (for your book to show). That's about it - and that IMO, seems like an even much do-able amount of pages. The community challenges here take a week - and well, I'm not sure if you're going to get a LOT of participation with a 5-6 page requirement. But, I do think 3-pages is a good, realistic goal.

There are quite a few scripts available from various comic book comps (DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, etc), you can download and pencil samples up from. Or the comp could be something like - "it's a dark and stormy night, a woman awakes from sleep upon hearing a noise. She grabs a flashlight to investigate and cautiously heads toward the source of the noise. She comes upon a closed door; a light is eminating from the bottom. Carefully, opens the door and finds..........Howard the Duck!"

Heh - well, that's what we had to do for a comic book workshop I took once. And it was three pages of pencils for this one.



However all that - I'd love to see one (Comic Competition) here, too.

[Brendan N]

At the Cons, the requirement is 3-pages (for your book to show). That's about it - and that IMO, seems like an even much do-able amount of pages. The community challenges here take a week - and well, I'm not sure if you're going to get a LOT of participation with a 5-6 page requirement. But, I do think 3-pages is a good, realistic goal.


Oh yeah forgot to mention - 5-6 pages for your story means it'll end up being a fortnightly challenge. 3 is good for a week, and if a week is a compulsory requirement for setting up a challenge like this then 3 it is. Otherwise, I'd vote for the 5-6 pages over two weeks, just to give a little elbow room for slightly more complex concepts. Again, just a thought of mine, take it with some salt.

[llothcat]

I'd be happy to help out...I've been a member of Sequentialtart.com for some time now...cheered on a friend as she almost won an Eisner a few years ago for her work(Finder (http://www.lightspeedpress.com/)), and I've worked production in a small press comic company.

Never had the pleasure to work on the slicks, but I do know the quick and dirty ways to get 'er done by deadline...which often meant 24 pages done and "fixed" in less than a week. Often, I was the one who corrected the originals to make sure the characters remain consistant panel to panel. Especially in the furry books.

[Ilaekae]

I was thinking along the lines of three pages for a standard comic exercise, three strips for a continuing strip (newspaper style) and four panels for the single panel shots, basically to prove continuity in styles and character.

Considering that some people would be new to the style of working, we could even split some assignments into two parts--"inking" finalized as a stand alone, and highend-coloring it as the second week.

I'm guessing some of the events could be concerned with developing a character or characters only, somewhat like COW, which could be applied in various ways later. Covers, limited color (like two-color), and just developing various approaches (styles) in black and white.

I'm gonna touch base with the admin/mods and see what they think about this, and maybe in the meantime, we can use this thread in between the comics to post suggestions and ideas for how to approach the "assignments" (what kind, subject matter, how best to do various things, that kind of thing)...I'm thinking that llothcat and I can probably get this started in a decent fashion, but if anyone else with some experience in the sequentials market out there thinks they can help out in setting this up, let us know.

[Emerald_Mara85]

Ilaekae,
Wow, can we all contribute or you just want only certain people who are so specialised in sequential art to do this?

Online competition...I wanna join...don't know if I have the time...time to cut some activities.

This kind of activity would be good for me as the standard for comics in a magazine (in Malaysia) are 6 pages every 2 weeks. Which kinda make alot of us have lots of panel on each page which is a bad thing...'cause it used to be 8 pages.

Bhanu,
Nice pages you got there, but I don't understand the Frederick Peeters page...how the heck did the girl got tied up? And where/when did those guys come from? ...just curious.
Am I supposed to get something from there? I guess I'm still a novice...

[Farvus]

I made only few unsuccesful comic pages but it would be cool to participate in such activity.

Emerald_Mara85 - Page with the tied girl is Tony Sandoval (the signature is on the top of it)

Frederik Peteers would be something like this.

Lupus / Frederik Peteers
242197

[DavePalumbo]

I just hate to see a thread like this without mention of Sergio Toppi:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e393/dvpalumbo/toppi.jpg

[DIMAGYAN]

i like your ideas on the posibilities for this activity, Ilaeake. specialy about the strips, i found quite a challenge the strip format. if you can tell a story in a strip you can tell a more long story, i believe.
doing short stories with a limited amount of pages is better as an exercise and also to manage the activitie.
time and duration is escencial to this type of activitie(i think)

[Ilaekae]

"Wow, can we all contribute or you just want only certain people who are so specialised in sequential art to do this?"

Emerald, it's for anyone who wants in. The more the merrier. Comics are a part of the world of Concept Arts and they're a nice training ground for devloping characters, environments and such that can't hurt if you move onto the heavy-duty parts of the industry.

[Emerald_Mara85]

Farvus,
oops...sorry about that..my bad...okay its Tony Sandoval.

DavePalumbo,
What title is that? His art reminds me of old Conan comics...

Ilaekae,
Hoho! Thx! I'll try to help in whatever I can do! Even if I'm a novice!

[eskanto]

Ilaekae, i think your taking this into a GREAT direction, i do think your right though, it probably can't be a week long like the other activities... i've also seen some people do a 'tag team' type of sequential art where one person does one page and then passes it to the next, and the next... all within the same story. I'm not an expert on sequential art but maybe i could lend a hand with something...

[eskanto]

'and chris bennett this wonderful artists name is Joshua Middleton.

[kool-ka-lang]

"Wow, can we all contribute or you just want only certain people who are so specialised in sequential art to do this?"

Emerald, it's for anyone who wants in. The more the merrier. Comics are a part of the world of Concept Arts and they're a nice training ground for devloping characters, environments and such that can't hurt if you move onto the heavy-duty parts of the industry.

Okay, This is just an idea that sprung up from this thread, but may a suggest a comic style "tournament"?

Don't kill me, but it's really popular at DA, and I don't see why we can't do it, and put our own spin and flavor on it.

Okay, basics: each person will have their own original character. Once everyone's submitted their character in, they get paired with another person's character.

What you have to do, is to draw some kind of fight scene between you and your partner's character. Of course, you need to draw your character as being the victor. Who ever has drawn the better fight scene, will advance to the next round. (It doesn't have to be straight up fighting: they can develop characters during the fight, and have inbetween moments or something.)

All of this can be set in some kind of "island" to keep everyone's character contained in the same setting.

So, what it is, is one huge mega-comic, with many threads, storylines, sub-stories, that everyone contributes too.

Of course, this may be too convulated for everyone, but hey, it's just a suggestion.:)

[Farvus]

kool-ka-lang - That's nice idea but I'd rather see it as an opportunity to try out storytelling skills. Drawing only fight scenes can get boring after some time and you won't profit from this as much as from doing regular comics.

[Brendan N]

Okay, This is just an idea that sprung up from this thread, but may a suggest a comic style "tournament"?

Don't kill me, but it's really popular at DA, and I don't see why we can't do it, and put our own spin and flavor on it.

Okay, basics: each person will have their own original character. Once everyone's submitted their character in, they get paired with another person's character.

What you have to do, is to draw some kind of fight scene between you and your partner's character. Of course, you need to draw your character as being the victor. Who ever has drawn the better fight scene, will advance to the next round. (It doesn't have to be straight up fighting: they can develop characters during the fight, and have inbetween moments or something.)

All of this can be set in some kind of "island" to keep everyone's character contained in the same setting.

So, what it is, is one huge mega-comic, with many threads, storylines, sub-stories, that everyone contributes too.

Of course, this may be too convulated for everyone, but hey, it's just a suggestion.:)

Don't mean to be harsh here, but I'm not a proponent of this idea at all. I suspect there are a lot of artists on here who aren't even interested in doing fight scenes, nevermind being forced into some uncomfortable setting with someone you struggle working with. I for one would like to do a comic solo for the competition. Group activities may arise from what happens in here, but I don't think this should be the approach right off the bat.

[smugbug]

I agree that this should be a solo endeavor. Max 3-pages. And maybe just be a little scene synopsis each week?

[Grief]

ehhh i'm actually not liking any apects which put a time frame or contest on this. i personally don't have time for "challenges" and would hate to be excluded due to other priorities taking my time.

i'd rather just have a "Speed Painting" or "inklings" style thread where we can post comics that we make, without any 'eliminations' or junk that excludes anyone from joining in.

the idea of a general structure may help some, but to me it adds elements of restriction.

i like the idea of showing random comic pages we make and being able to discuss what works and what the artist was thinking. i think the conversation about comics is what we're all after.

hmm... i cranked this out last night while thinking of this thread.
ink on paper, scanned. no digital clean up n' fixing... yet.
(manneken = dutch for 'little man')

[eskanto]

i think that's a good idea grief.

[SeB C BiEn]

Hello, I'll really liking this idea of some sort of weekly challenge like cow/chow where we would make a 3 page comic with different topics and all. But it's true I most of the time don't have the time to participate in weekly challenges because of the deadline... But hey, it can actually be a helpful training to professionally do comics/sequential art.

I really hope we can do this. Also I think having a thread like Grief suggested would be a really good idea, to make everyone happy :D

btw Grief, that's a nice page you did. Did you go directly with ink or did you make some pencil guidelines first?

Oh and to add a comic page I love, by Fellah. just love it.

[kool-ka-lang]

Brendan N and Farvus, It's cool if you guys don't like it: was just suggesting a possibility.

Do you guys who prefer western comics over manga think that the text size and bubbles in manga are too big?
I've always thought that western comics' text were a wee bit too small sometimes, and very text heavy. I'm not trying to start anything here, I'm just asking a question on the formatting, and composition.


And another question: what's better in comics? when the action/pacing goes faster (it's faster to flip through pages) or slower? (takes a while to digest information.)

[Grief]

btw Grief, that's a nice page you did. Did you go directly with ink or did you make some pencil guidelines first?


yeah i did maybe a 10minute drawing with a 6H pencil, blocking in the figure, panels, and shapes. mostly did all the work in ink though without much guidance from my loose lines.

a bit of cleaning on touch of coloring.
not too sure about the red.

[idoru]

I think that both Grief's idea and the idea of a challenge are completely viable. Don't have time for challenges? Post in the ongoing thread. Want to do something with a deadline? Well, join a challenge! I think 5-6 page bi-weekly challenges would be great. It's a good habit to get into, turning out a certain amount of work by a set date. And 5-6 pages in two weeks isn't an unobtainable goal. Not to mention, you don't HAVE to participate in any of this, so it's not really a big deal if, say, finals are coming up and you don't have the time, or your dog died and you aren't in the mood. Y'know?

I'd be willing to pitch in as much as I would be allowed to with anything, too.

[enrigo]

How bout this one: Art School Confidential by Daniel Clowe
the art wasn't that fantastic but it sure is hilarious (especially for us art enthusiast)

242507

242508

242509

242510


I really admire his work, including the film adaptation of Ghost World

[smugbug]

Alex Toth; who was able to convey to much with so few lines. Sigh.

http://www.tothfans.com/pictures/Luca_Collection/blackcanary.jpg

http://www.tothfans.com/pictures/Luca_Collection/BingCrosby.jpg

http://www.tothfans.com/pictures/Roy_Rogers/toth_royrogers_61_01_10.jpg

http://www.tothfans.com/images/pages/11-1-2007.JPG

*If you go to the official Alex Toth site, there is a "page a day" thingy. Pretty cool.

[bhanu]

Maybe we can just ahve a comics subforum and have comic related activities there, including the weekly competition.
COmpetition format -3 pages minimum, 5 pages max, sometimes the loose marvel style plot is given by the winner of last competition.Other times a really tight script is given.The loose plot will give the artists freedom to interpret the idea in their own way, the tighter scripts will make condition artists to be able to work in collabration and be with the times.

There can also be a seperate pencilling, inking, coloring , lettering competition. The competitors in these competitions will pick up the stuff from the seqyential competition and work from there.....
How does that sound?


Emerals Mara85- Well , I pick up stuff from wherever I can find it. Cant mention one.

Davepalumbo-Damn you beat me to it, I was going to post toppis stuff .....Damn
Still I got lotsa ammo ..

GIPI
http://www.monitocadaver.com/blog/images/immaginecoperta.jpg

http://www.monitocadaver.com/blog/images/avventurieri_01-753214.jpg

http://www.bacidallaprovincia.com/uploaded_images/piratibig02-747006.jpg

Francois Boucq
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3606/b01fq9.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3126/b03sl6.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4405/b04yr5.jpg

Hugo Pratt
http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~papierbd/Book/Hugo%20Platt/Pratt-Cortomaltese-La%20Maison%20doree%20sample.jpg

Arturo del Castillo
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/raulgrabau/western1.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa319/raulgrabau/1a.jpg


Edit -Nice one Enrigo

[DIMAGYAN]

great pages bhanu, corto maltes is a great comic(one of my favourites) and the story of saint exupery is really good.i didn't know the first artist, very good.
and arturo del castillo was a very good comic artist, he work in the comic "randall the killer" with Héctor Germán Oesterheld in editorial frontera (good old days for the argentinean and south america comic panorama)

good ideas for the activities btw


the sketches of alex toth are just great

[FlameDragon]

Wow! I never thought my thread would become this popular...

[Ian Mack]

Bhanu: Haha that Gipi guy has some awesome pics! Made me laugh.

I am a huge fan of Joshua Middleton. I remember buying a comic book because I liked his artwork so much and I don't buy comic books. Well that's not entirely true and here are some examples of what I have bought.

As to the Competition...I'm currently trying to find the time to do storyboards to get a job as a storyboard artist so I'm rather excited by the possibility of a weekly group. However, I don't know if I can find the time to do the pieces to submit to employers and do my own stories AND do a weekly challenge.

[llothcat]

I think both a sub-forum and a weeklie competition is in order. Ilaekae and I will likely run the weeklie, but the sub-forum...ah I dunno. I don't run a durn thing here. We'll have to see.


Remember, there's nothing stopping anyone from posting up their own comic book-like things in their own sketchbooks right now.

The longest running thread over at sequentialtart is one called my daily cartoon-like comic, or something or other. Maybe something similar will happen here. My only concern is that this whole thing may peter out. Comics are a lot of work, after all.


The proposed challenge here is only 3 pages, pencils only?!? In a week or 2? Seems a bit light to me. From what I read here, it's not like a lot of folks here even tried a 24 hour comic book challenge before. I did 2. barely.

[Brendan N]

The proposed challenge here is only 3 pages, pencils only?!? In a week or 2? Seems a bit light to me. From what I read here, it's not like a lot of folks here even tried a 24 hour comic book challenge before. I did 2. barely.

Well I was thinking 3 pages, EVERYTHING done - from the pencils all the way to the lettering - in a week, or 5 or 6 pages over a fortnight (also fully complete and 'ready' to be published, so to speak).

[FlameDragon]

Awesome, a Battle Chasers panel! I should've posted one

[bhanu]

Dimagyan-First artist is Gipi
http://gipifrance.blogspot.com/
, apprantly hes quite famous in Europe, one of his newer comic is Garage band...I cant read European languages so I only do guesswork when I am looking at the comics..a lot of great european , argentenian stuff never gets translated into english...And that sucks.

Brendan-I think just one thing in a week is enough, like chow or cow you have to just one character in a whole week...it might equal 3 pages in pencilling.Complete pages might be too much pressure.

Llothcat-man its great to hear the good news....I hope everything falls into place.I have put a lot of my comic book work in my Sbs ....and theres one in the FF section, feel free to crit it.

[Brendan N]

Brendan-I think just one thing in a week is enough, like chow or cow you have to just one character in a whole week...it might equal 3 pages in pencilling.Complete pages might be too much pressure.


K, the way I work this would go fast, but I realise other people have other approaches, and 3 completes would probably end up too much. What if we make it slightly more lenient, say two weeks with 4 or 5 pages recommended? (No restrictions, if you can do a single page effectively like Fellah did with that LMS, then that's fine).

Also, I have another, slightly more ambitious idea:

We make it a MUCH longer time-limit (I'm thinking a month). Then you have to produce your own short, doing absolutely everything - from the cover to the story. These will place a high emphasis on originality and efficiency.

Have a few of these competitions, during which CA'ers choose their winners. After a few of these, the very very best gets put into a publication of sorts available in much the same way as the T-Shirts or Calenders.

I have no idea how viable this is - maybe I'm just going way over the tops here. Ilaekae?

[Ilaekae]

OKAY! WE'RE DOIN' IT!

It took the phone number of every single perverted high-school cheerleader I know, but Davi has graciously agreed to set up the site for us. That will NOT happen until immediately after the holidays are over, as in first week of January. We have a lot of planning to do to get this organized, and I don't want any conflicts with Holiday traveling, and the LMS3 start-up. Instead of hijacking this thread, which is starting to get really nice with comics, I'm going to start another thread in this section where we can discuss and make suggestions on the best way to handle this thing.

Look for the thread called "COMICS START-UP!" Spread the word...

[bhanu]

Thanks for putting the effort to start the comic forum man.. Btw I havent seen you posting stuff from your collection...

[Ilaekae]

I haven't had time to get to it yet. i have to two-finger type crits and commentary for a class here and a bunch of drug-indulgent mentees. Will try to get something up in next couple of days...

[NoSeRider]

Mark Ryden is an over glorified comic book artist.
Jeff Soto is an over glorified comic book artist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowbrow_%28art_movement%29

The Low Brow Art movement depends on comic book art as one of its influences.

If you look at the Low Brow Art movement and say comic book art is irrelevant, then you are not paying attention.

[Cthogua]

No one's mentioned Mignola yet? Not european? too mainstream? BAH, I love the stylization he uses...sharp and simple, almost vectory, but powerful...like if Frank Miller had a child with a knife.

[Farvus]

Great!

I'm recently fascinated with Enki Bilal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki_Bilal) comics.

Here are sample pages from "32 Décembre" album. Not regular comic technique. It's propably pastels + acrylics.

247454

247455

247474

[Ilaekae]

Alright...

A good many of you know that I collect erotic comics, and I'm an Admin for an erotic comics forum. The following couple of posts are samples of one artist--Toshiki Yui--one of the great surrealist hentai mangakas of Japan. I tried not to offend anyone here, but it could happen, so if I do, please alert me immediately and I'll pull whatever piece you find objectionable. It is EROTIC, so it's difficult to show almost any page without at least some nudity or "sex" on it, but I'm trying.

I've put up a good range of this man's output to give you an idea how his style evolved over time. I consider him a true master of classic line art and one hell of a page-layout artist, and a possessor of one of the weirdest senses of humor out there.

Enjoy. I'll post other artists as I get to them...

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-2.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-3.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-4.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-5.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-6.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-7.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-8.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-9.jpg

[Ilaekae]

Second post...

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-10.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-11.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-12.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-13.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-14.jpg

[Ilaekae]

Third post...

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-15.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-16.jpg

[...by the way...the one on the right above is a boy...]

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-17.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-18.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-19.jpg

[Ilaekae]

Fourth Post. These are typical of the four-page shorts that the artist is doing now, mostly for magazine insertion...

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-20.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-21.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-22.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-23.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-24.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-25.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-26.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/aljmary/conceptarts/TY-27.jpg

[bhanu]

Ilaekae those are fucking great posts man..erotic comics forum....hmm I am very much interested .

Shaun tan (http://www.shauntan.net/)-
the arrival- a comic book without words

http://www.shauntan.net/images/books/the-arrival1.jpg

http://www.shauntan.net/images/books/the-arrival2.jpg

http://www.shauntan.net/images/books/the-arrival5.jpg

http://www.shauntan.net/images/books/the-arrival7.jpg

Paul pope I cant find much sequential ...
I think his batman year 100 is one of the best bat books out there
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/116/280191260_47142d7051_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/111/310733256_a525f669a6_o.jpg

Jason Shawn alexander
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/162/p1mz5.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3381/p2ap0.jpg

[bhanu]

okay found some batman year 100 art
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb_06previews/year100_1.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb_06previews/year100_2.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb_06previews/year100_4.jpg

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Feb_06previews/year100_5.jpg

[Emerald_Mara85]

Ilaekae,
I see Toshiki Yui still have wild imagination...
But I don't understand what is that last posted manga...?

Bhanu,
Thx for sharing Shaun Tan works with us, fufu I get the enjoy some really nice art!

[Ilaekae]

The thing that she sees through the hole is a sugar donut--a sweet fatty pastry.

[HunterKiller_]

How convenient. So many wonderful comics in one collection.

*saves thread for great justice*

EDIT: Oh, there's even tentacle hentai. $Ching$Ching$Ching!

[Ilaekae]

Weirdo... :P

For myself, I only look at the page numbers and border styles...

[Emerald_Mara85]

The thing that she sees through the hole is a sugar donut--a sweet fatty pastry.

That's the part I don't understand...why get horny over it? This is just one of Toshiki's weird series right?...I'm so not getting it... :(

[Ilaekae]

In many parts of the world that are influenced by entertainment and "western impossible beauty standards," young girls are under constant pressure to keep their weight "under control," so Yui is playing off this by presenting a forbidden sweet that causes an almost sexual desire to eat it. The thing you want most is often the one thing forbidden to you. Thus her reaction...

[kev ferrara]

Well I agree with you Mr. Porno Pussycat from Sou'Western Penn, but there's also a forbidden brown donut hole that is being equated with the Cinnamon Honey Bun in question. (At least that's what Freud's is telling me through my fillings)

Sometimes a banana isn't just a banana, natch?

I'm sorry I had to be the one to say it. I'm actually quite clean cut and gentlemanly in real life.

[Ilaekae]

...and they call ME a perv... :P

[kev ferrara]

...and they call ME a perv... :P

Yes they do. :ilaekae: :asslick:

[fedezz]

-Christophe Blain

249711
249714
249715


-Joann Sfar

249716
249717


-Carlos Muñoz

249724
249725
249726


-Carlos Nine

249728
249729
249731

[Emerald_Mara85]

Ilaekae,
uhh, thx for answering to my question...I guess you have officially made me gain a bit of perverted knowledge, haha!

Fedezz,
For some strange reason Carlos Nine reminds me of the figure 'Molly'.

[pomegranate]

These are by, comic god, Inoue Takehiko. (they read from right to left)
Slam Dunk (best comic ever)
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1523/sdcam7.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5568/sd1pu2.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6074/sd2dg1.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8816/sd3dd7.jpg

Real
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8968/rlcol6.jpg

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5584/rl0kl8.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3972/rl1au0.jpg

Vagabond
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2016/vc1gu7.jpg http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/866/vc2hb8.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3439/v1mo7.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1978/v2gi4.jpg

[Ilaekae]

...and for something in a lighter vein...

Apparently, even the Japanese have cliches...and know it... :P

[HunterKiller_]

Young master's... sperm? o.0

Oh, what will those crazy Japs think of next.

... Wait, we can say 'Japs' here right? I remember I once got done on a forum for saying that...

[bhanu]

mangas....
My contribution...
Kaori yuki

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/aghori/001-16.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/aghori/001-23.jpg

taiyo matsumoto
http://lambiek.net/artists/m/matsumoto_t/matsumoto_taiyo_157.jpg

http://lambiek.net/artists/m/matsumoto_t/matsumoto_taiyo.jpg

I am having ahrd time finding their stuff on the net.


Jiro matsumoto

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/aghori/Keep_on_Vibrating_038.png

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/aghori/Keep_on_Vibrating_039.png

[kidult]

Just to add - a Mangaka called Oh!Great - him and his team deserve the title.
Images taken from Airgear and Tenjo Tenge.
His real name is Ito Ogura but when flipped around its Ogura Ito - How U would say Oh! Great in Japenese dialect / slang.
These are a few samples of his stuff - just random images there is tons more of great stuff from him!!

[Emerald_Mara85]

okay...
How do I put this...
awhile back I said I was gonna post up the pencils for a comic I done for an online competition...well didn't had the time to stop and scan it after the penciling was done...wen't straight on to inking...(bloody assignments)
I got in the finals and got a certificate but I'm not that happy at all!

Not because I didn't get in the top 3...
Because my comic sucks big time!!!
*sigh* Take a look...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/EmeraldMara85/Over18EmeraldMara85DemonStoryJPG.jpg

Uh-wah...
Why is it when it comes to small boxes, I can't do it properly...arr I need to run to some mountains with comic tools and paper and train for awhile... I'm soo dissapointed.
I'm especially dissapointed that when I wanted to put tones using a computer, it wouldn't let me...(just think that in photoshop you press control + z and instead of a back step it becomes a select inverse!)

In the end there wasn't enough time...so I fill in with simple tones like black and gradient...

I seriously need to train. Especially on becoming faster...
I mean...look at it! Its horrible...
When it was posted at the Comic Fiesta (local comic convention)...
I wanted to ripped it into shreds...

[kev ferrara]

Why not post it in the critique section of this site. I'm sure you will learn a lot from the advice of many artists.

[pomegranate]

Sky Doll by Alessandro Barbucci and Barbara Canepa is very good.

[Jason Ross]

I've always found it offensive how some japanese artists portray black people's lips. It reminds of Will Eisners "The Spirit" sidekick Denny Colt. Like a big flattened white powdered donut (that is funny as hell in a verrrrry bad way).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebony_White
Very demeaning to black people. Might have to bring big AL in on this one :P

Am I overreacting a little?

[kev ferrara]

I've always found it offensive how some japanese artists portray black people's lips. It reminds of Will Eisners "The Spirit" sidekick Denny Colt. Like a big flattened white powdered donut (that is funny as hell in a verrrrry bad way).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebony_White
Very demeaning to black people. Might have to bring big AL in on this one :P

Am I overreacting a little?

Jason, isn't the way japanese artists portray themselves even more offensive?

As always, being offended is one's own prerogative. Seek and ye shall find is the phrase... meaning, if you look to be offended you will always find something to be offended about. This can get out of hand quickly, so I would advise against it.

Of course, where stereotypes become dangerous is the issue... where it stems from some effort to sub-humanize.. then I think there is grounds for very strong protest (as in racial cartoons in segregationalist newspapers, or jewish cartoons in nazi or radical islamist propaganda, etc.)

But The Spirit character was not that sub-humanization... or at least it subverted that stereotype by making the "black face" caricature a face of hero, or at least a hero's friend.

Eisner's character, actually, seems a normal part of the long term under the radar equal-rights thing, which was part of the lives of so many progressive new york jewish people, who felt allied to african-american causes due to their own ostracization and worked very hard on their behalf. Eisner was one of those Jewish guys.

And of course, the comic book business had a great many jewish creators, so there was a natural alliance between comic books and rights for minorities. Think of the X-Men... a perfect metaphor for the talented "other" being shunned by society and how wrong that is.

The first black superhero, The Black Panther, was in the 60s, done by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (real names Stan Lieber and Jacob Kurtzberg).

Anyhow... the point is that comics has been a pretty strong force for positive social change and the acceptance and appreciation of the talents of others.

I don't think its fruitful to call too much "foul" on the past. The grievances are endless, and most social and psychological history remains unwritten.

Best,
kev

[Jason Ross]

Jason, isn't the way japanese artists portray themselves even more offensive?


No.


As always, being offended is one's own prerogative. Seek and ye shall find is the phrase... meaning, if you look to be offended you will always find something to be offended about. This can get out of hand quickly, so I would advise against it.

It don't have to seek to be offended on this kev. And i hope this does not get out of hand so please if you want to reply to this post, keep it civilized and well thought out.



Of course, where stereotypes become dangerous is the issue... where it stems from some effort to sub-humanize.. then I think there is grounds for very strong protest (as in racial cartoons in segregationalist newspapers, or jewish cartoons in nazi or radical islamist propaganda, etc.)

But The Spirit character was not that sub-humanization... or at least it subverted that stereotype by making the "black face" caricature a face of hero, or at least a hero's friend.

Only a person on non african descent would agree with this. This character fits the "al jolson black face" character exactly. This isn't about Denny Colt so much as it's about current artist's protrayal of ethnic features in a very unflattering manner.


Eisner's character, actually, seems a normal part of the long term under the radar equal-rights thing, which was part of the lives of so many progressive new york jewish people, who felt allied to african-american causes due to their own ostracization and worked very hard on their behalf. Eisner was one of those Jewish guys.
The old people in my family had VERY different views on this. They hated this character and everything about him. He was an Uncle Tom "yes boss" type house Negro. The exact opposite of what African Americans wanted for themselves at that time. But again. its about how some CURRENT artist draw certain features not past artists.

[kev ferrara]

Jason, I can totally understand your position on this. The very *idea* that african americans had to go through some process to be recognized as equal is morally repugnant. But it was/is a process. To discuss this process could get very lengthy, so I'll only hit a few points...

This spirit character is a lot like the Hattie McDaniel character in Gone with the Wind. A good force in a "white narrative" that still conforms to a stereotype. Yet, that exposure... as a force for good, a source for wisdom, or humanity... is a very important step in the process of acclimatizing an insular white country to the human foundations of equality. The utilization of stereotypes to "allow" african americans to be part of comfortable white narratives, acted as a Trojan Horse to get past the issues of skin and race. To see a character act morally is more powerful than all the sermonizing in the world. Of course the dignity of Mr. Tibbs is a far better medicine than Eisner's character... but the times call forth the man, as they say. (Film Produced by Walter Mirisch, natch?)

I understand the anger of your grandparents, but in the context of the larger struggle, this was not the same as "Birth of Nation", let alone Goebbel's "jews-as-rats" propaganda film "The Eternal Jew", which show the earmarks of true hate.

I am sorry if I have offended you, btw. I tend to like to engage with these very difficult topics in the hopes that my ignorance will be re-calibrated... as here.

kev

[Jason Ross]

I understand the anger of your grandparents, but in the context of the larger struggle, this was not the same as "Birth of Nation", let alone Goebbel's "jews-as-rats" propaganda film "The Eternal Jew", which show the earmarks of true hate.

I am sorry if I have offended you, btw. I tend to like to engage with these very difficult topics in the hopes that my ignorance will be re-calibrated... as here.
kev

It's no comparison to Geobbel's hate messages. At the same time i dont believe that Eisner had the idea of "uplifting black america" when he creating the character "Ebony White". Walt Disney is guilty of this as well with the 2 "black birds" in dumbo among some other...representations. Also in the 40's,50's, and 60's the Chinese when thru similiar unflattering representations in the american entertainment industry as well. But its really a problem when current artists aren't sensitive to these matters that issues arise. Don't worry Key, you havn't offended me in the slightest.

[kev ferrara]

I dont believe that Eisner had the idea of "uplifting black america" when he creating the character "Ebony White".

Maybe not.

Anyhow... this Eisner interview answers some questions...

Will: Look, I was never apologetic for the way I depicted Ebony. As a matter of fact, I was very comfortable with the way I did it. Remember, Ebony was created in the '40s and, at that time, you still had Amos & Andy. That sort of humor was prevalent and acceptable at the time—but I always treated Ebony very differently. As a matter of fact, I received very good mail; even in the Warren books you'll see some supportive letters. This is not widely known but I was probably the first to have a Black detective, Detective Grey, who did not speak with the minstrel dialect. I treated Ebony very lovingly for a long time, and I was no more a promoter of civil rights (I never thought of myself as being involved in the Civil Rights movement) than I was a feminist creating strong, intelligent women—these were my standards; these were the kind of people I liked and admired.

CBA: At the core, your characters are human—there is a true humanity about them. What I mean is were you sensitive that Ebony would be misinterpreted (as he ended up being to some degree)?

Will: Oh yeah. I got mail from both sides. I got a letter from the Afro-American papers in Baltimore complimenting me on the way I treated Ebony. On the same day, I received another letter from a couple of fellows I had gone to high school with (in my radical days when I was going to change the world) and they said I betrayed socialism because of the portrayal. Oddly, the letters both came on the same day—I should have saved them.

Since I've never seen the racial portrayals in Manga, I can't comment on it.

peace,
kev

[Fellah.]

Oh and to add a comic page I love, by Fellah. just love it.

Thank you, kind sir:bashful: :bashful: :bashful:

[Kuma Kensai]

I may have to suggest that stereotypes have always been used to create simple recognition since art evolved out of the cave paintings. Sometimes/often poorly. I am 1/2 korean and 1/2 a bunch of european, and have faced some serious racism in my day. Asians didn't like me because I was white, whites didn't like me because I was asian. Honestly only hispanics and blacks didn't greet me with some kind of wierd look on theire faces and I'm greatful for that.

I used to get really offended by the little crap (stereotypical asians in white society, you know big glasses, buck teeth, hunched back) When I was in the Marine corps all of my own preconceptions about my self and others fell away and I became comfortable with who I am. I don't get offended by this crap anymore, who cares, did the artist come to your house make a sketch of your face and then change it to fit a more offensive ideal?? Doubt it.

What probably happened is that Japanese manga artists and 50' 60's white/jewish whatever american comic artists did was generalize from their point of view. This is probably easier to see from the Japanese POV as they have and have always had a very closed society. By this I mean they probably did not use reference for the human figure and generalized off of a stereotype and you end up with the possibly offensive depictions of people of African-descent. I would guess that there was NO INTENTION to over simplify or poorly stylize the features....they just didn't teke the time to really look at the people they were drawing.

This is why reference is important, we have evolved more quickly (for diversity's sake) as an art community in the Americas and Europe. And this is simply due to the fact that the people making up these artistic communities come from a myriad of backgrounds and racial makeup and we have (mostly) become more sensitive to recognizing the need to represent people in a fashion that doesn't demean or insult.

That being said I wouldn't get too offended by decades old representations and miscues on the part of Asian artists. Read the material and how the character is handled in his humanity. Is it still offensive? why is it offensive?

If it's offensive....Don't continue to read or by the stuff. If it can't sell then whatever book it is cannot continue.

And yes I have dealt with my share of racism, I was born right after America had finished our third straight war against an Asian nation. I even get it from my own family sometimes....but whatever, they have no real control over who or what I am and they can bugger off for all I care.

[enrigo]

Great to see Vagabond up here ! I've been going crazy over both the novel and the comic version, greatest motivational novel imo.

You know, in some part of the world mild racism is just a way of life. I know that from being the only caucasian boy among a thousand in an elementary school in Thailand for my whole childhood.

Now that I move to study in Canada, I've seen some portrayal of Thai person in american cartoons (Family Guy jokes and etc.), and they seems like it was done with 100% streotypical asian in mind. Example would be a Thai having a small flag wrap around his head while pilotting and shouting something which I can't identify a word of it. So it looks like just a Kamikaze pilot but with different flag.