Flake White and Its Toxicity versus Its Value

[MarkHarchar]

So, after researching my whites from Permalba to Titanium, Zinc to Flake, etc. I have a question. I have an instructor that it set on the concept that Flake white is the best. He is big into the old masters and has continued to state the Lead White (flake) was the white the old masters used and since it worked for them, it is best.

Obviously, it is significantly toxic. If is also more transparent than say Titanium and isn't questionable as to what is in it like Permalba. Therefore, my question is, does Flake white have a value in using it that makes up for its toxicity or is another white or combo or whites a better choice when comparing the cost/value ratio?

[Seedling]

Just don't sand it, or if you must sand it, do it somewhere away from where people live. From what I understand, lead poisoning often occurs when old lead house paint becomes dirt or dust that gets tracked into the home and then breathed or ingested by the inhabitants - and mostly by children, who are more likely to be sticking dusty fingers in their mouths. If you sand this stuff, you're making the same sort of lead dust.

[Elwell]

First of all, I wouldn't say lead whites, or lead-based mediums like maroger, are significantly toxic if used properly. And that means no eating or smoking while working or until you've cleaned your hands thoroughly, and keeping any scratches/nicks/cuts on your hands well covered (or using gloves, if necessary). Also, remember that your rags and thinner will also have lead in them, and will have to be disposed of properly. The other thing is that lead is far more dangerous to children than adults, both because relative exposure is greater, and because it can effect brain development, so I would never use anything containing it anywhere where small children have access.
So, if it's such a pain in the ass, why do some people still prefer flake white so strongly to titanium or zinc? Lead reacts chemically with drying oils, forming a very tough but flexible paint layer that ages very well. Because of it's warmth and transparency, it also tints colors differently, not cooling them as significantly as other whites. Finally, some lead whites have a distinctive "feel" under the brush that isn't easily duplicated, and that is very important to some painters.
So, is it worth using? That's up to the individual, although I have to say the historical and legislative trend is definitely not in lead's favor.
FWIW, I mostly use Permalba.

[Chris Bennett]

Lucien Freud uses a white called Kremnitz white. Now this really is stuff not to have next to your lunch. - It has so much lead in it the tube weighs almost twice as much as flake white.
Flake white has a sort of silvery sheen to it that is hard to describe - it has something to do with it being a 'stiffer' paint than titanium and retains finer, sharper grooves in the paint from the brush.
Thinking of things toxic; a guy at my old art school used to cut his sandwiches with his pallette knife.

[Elwell]

Kremnitz (or Cremnitz) white and Flake white used to be two slightly different pigments made by different processes. These days, however, the pigment used in both is the same. The difference is that most manufacturers use flake white to refer to a mixture of lead and zinc, and cremnitz to refer to straight lead.

[Verdaccio]

The value of lead whites are in their use, rather than their ingestion. Lead white is just the bomb...beautiful in highlights, blends down to a whisper, speeds drying time. /sigh

I could paint without it, but I would be that much the poorer for its absence.

[alesoun]

You know, I'd never really given a thought to the toxicity of paints, maybe I should. I'm forever wiping hair out of my eyes, drinking coffee, smoking or chewing my little finger when I'm painting or thinking about what I'm doing....

So what colours are the baddies?

[Art_Addict]

Well Elwell, pretty much covers everything that need to be said.

Use it with caution. Don't stick the ends of your brushes in your mouth and
don't run a brush's hair through your mouth to make a pointy tip when they're
clean.

I would also want to add that ( primarily for the messy painters among us ) it
is possible to have your lead and cadmium levels of your blood tested in the
hospital to monitor your health.
I know of painters who do it once a year just to make sure.

[Flake]

So what colours are the baddies?

Don't worry, if you're in Europe you can't even buy the really good ones.

Avoid Cads and Vermillions in your sandwiches though.

[MarkHarchar]

Thanks all. Having flake white been a staple of my palette since I started painting, I just wanted to know if my life was better or worse for it. I think I may try the Permalba white in order to see if I can tell a difference. I decided a while ago that until I had an really understand of why I was choosing one paint (brand, hue or otherwise) over another I would just stick to what I had or what I could reasonably afford, but as I learn more and as I paint more, I seem to be questioning more. So I guess that's a plus.

Oh, also, actual Cobalt based paint hues can be baddies too.

[Seedling]

Alesoun – check out the labels on your tubes of paint. There should be lots of information on each color.

[sweetoblivion314]

The thing your teacher should remember when arguing for Lead white over other whites because "Thats what the old masters used" is due to the fact that it was the only one they had. Zinc Oxide didn't become stable in oil paint until 1844 and titanium dioxide wasn't invented until 1920.

Also every manufacturer must make available the Materials safety data sheets (MSDS) for their products. You can either check their websites or google the product + MSDS to find out more.