Beelow mentoring thread: spots filled

[Beelow]

Mentor: Beelow
Mentee:aedman
rainblacker


For others feel free to correct me on some things. I am not going to claim that I have all the answers. Or if you want to hop in and ask some questions feel free to do so. But, remember that I am dedicating my time to only 2 people. Don't feel bad if I do not answer your questions. It depends on how many posts are here. If it is a question that I do not know I will let you know.

Also mentees, post some of your work so I can know where you are at skillwise. I can allocate tasks easier if you show me what you can do. Also be warned I will be tough and I will critique hard. It is very necessary for improvement. I recieve critiques and all of the time that is one of the few ways you will get better.

I took on a couple more... wish me luck hehe. XD

[Beelow]

Go ahead a post samples of your work here so I won't have to jump everywhere to see your work. Post it here in this thread, make it easy for me, please. XD

I will dish work to you guys/gals depending on what I think your strengths and weakness are. Also you can include what a synopsis of yourself and break it down to me what you want to accomplish out of this session or sessions that I will be delivering to you. I want to know what career goals you have, what are your intentions, influences whatever. I want to get more aquanted with you all. We will get started asap after you give me something. XD

[rainblacker]

here are some of mine:

[rainblacker]

Hi,

I have been drawing almost 2 years. My long term goal would be to eventually illustrate my own stories. One of things I really want to learn is how to draw things in proper proportions. Like in this drawing of my kitchen, I have a very hard time with proportions. I would like to draw a room that actually looks like the room. I like realistic drawing best.

[chaosrocks]

Beelow thanks for stepping up... Im sure you have a lot to teach....
Yay!
nobody has all the answers, if you need info or inspiration Im sure there are plenty who woul dbe happy to helpout

again
Thanks
Chaos

[dragonkingme]

Hey man,

this is some of my stuff, im not very good.

what i really want to acomplish is drawing scifi/fatesy buildings and mechcanical stuff i know that migh be a lofty gaol but im really willing to work my ass off lol

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/3d.jpg


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/can.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/170405.jpg

sry bout the bad quality it will get better

peace
DK

[Beelow]

Ok I am here. there are still a couple people that have not posted yet.

Thanks Choas, yeah I thought I might help in this area a bit more. I thought I might help someone else out for a bit.

rainblacker- hey thanks for sharing. I will get you there. Its never an easy task to draw environments or anything for that matter, it takes just time and practice. I will get you to establish yourself in a good practice habit. Your just missing perspective that's all. I will get you to practice drawing what you see and not what you think you see and what you know. That comes later. training your eye and hand will be important to get more successful with the creative stuff. Are you planning on doing a graphic novel or doing the comic book thing at all? Or are you more interested in doing just illustration and telling a story with one image. Either way it goes your still going to be telling a story. I will help you with getting better at communicating a story visually. It comes down to that. I will garuantee that you willl get better, but it is going to be on you to do the work and commit. But, I will not garuantee that you will do pro work in just seconds. Just want that to be known. We will get started soon. Let me contemplate a little on what you will be doing.

Dragonkingme-Sci fi Buildings and mechanical stuff. Cool we will get you there. we are going to start of with some more easier stuff for you and Rainblacker before you 2 get into more complicated stuff. Thanx for sharing.

Okay, what I want you 2 to do is set a goal for the this month. What do you want to accomplish in this month. Set a Year goal. What do want to accomplish within that year. Set a five year goal and etc. Guys here that have been doing this professionally have been doing this for years. Use those guys at the top as inspiration, not for the genre of work that is posted but the quality. That is what this site is about.

If the other 2 come along I want you to do the same. Make realistic goals though.

There is a wealth information that I have at my disposal when I create. It takes fulll focus to get the things that I want accomplished. I experiment and I use what imformation I have recieved to accomplish what I am trying to do. Okay, ladies and gents we are on our way. XD

[dragonkingme]

My goal for this month is to nail down drawing process because right now ill kinda randomly sketch, the problam with this is that i can pretty much never reproduce anything i draw.

Within the year i hope to be able to sketch (at a basic level) the stuff i mentioned above, but be able to sketch it keeping the scale and perspective constant throught the drawing.

within five years i hopw to be able to draw with detail things from imagination with lighting and texture that looks semi-realistic

i hope those arent to lofty :)

thank you for the help,

peace
DK

[Koldmilk]

i posted some of my stuff here to see if i could learn better shading and maybe some tricks on how
to improve my drawing in realistic faces and just over all. i really want to be a 3d modeler or concept artist one day.

my goal for a year from now is to improve my shading and get better at drawing faces which is my real weakness.

ps. i'm sorry im new to posting in this site and i dont know how to lower the pictures res.

[aedman]

My name is Andrew, I'm interested in improving my illustration and conceptual design skills, I'm fairly new to digital painting and working in full color, so that's something I will be focusing on developing in particular. I think what I said in my thread for Steve Kim's class is a fairly good indicator of where I feel I am at and what my angle is so here it is, just to have it in one place.

"my primary interest is in a large and wide-ranging personal project that is focused on a fictionalized reality in the rural Midwest of the U.S. It is a multifaceted project that I am continually developing and refining in terms of writing and visual notes."

To do the project that in my mind justice in the world of pictures, I need to advance and develop my technical/academic skills while examining the conceptual and intellectual aspects. I am a long way from that point, and though I have realized that there is no perfect summit which will be reached, I am determined to work towards it. It is only in the past year or so that I would say I have become serious about my work and my goals, and only within the last few months that I have started to really figure out how to begin that trip in the right way."

1 month goal: communicate 3 characters and 1 architectural property (exterior and interior views) from my personal project though a small design brief, bring them through a design process of sketches, studies, etc to arrive at a design that communicates the necessary information and create finished full color digital illustrations for each of the final designs.

1 year goal: becoming an intern involved in the art side of game design for a game developer in the area. Having my ability to draw from imagination rival that of my ability to draw from life at this time.

5 year goal: having a paid position as a concept artist. Being capable of producing work that is approaching the skill level and vision demonstrated by the professionals on this site. I realize that this is a far cry from where I am currently at, but I want to set my sights high and really push myself in ways that I haven't in the past.


Sample of my work: 2 drawings from life with non-reffed embellishments, 2 digital paintings no ref used.

222001 222002

222003 222004

[rainblacker]

I am mainly interested in making graphic novels as a long term goal. I like the style of comics like Occult Crimes Taskforce.


My goal for this month would be to improve my line quality. My lines are a bit wobbly and I would like to firm them up a bit and be more free flowing. I don't know if this is a good first goal or not but it seems like an okay place to start.

Over the next year I would like to be good at shading and like be able to draw my kitchen in better perspective so maybe I could actually start attempting to illustrate some of my story ideas. And five years from now I would hope to have completed a small graphic novel.

[Beelow]

rainblacker, aedman, Koldmilk, dragonkingme- Here are some stuff that I will provide you during this journey:

Loomis book-http://fineart.sk/index.php?s=0&cat=13

nudes-http://www.characterdesigns.com/index.php?sitepage=photosets

nudes-http://kindgirls.com/main

nudes-http://bigkugels.com/content/bigwelcome.html

http://www.posemaniacs.com/blog/


Koldmilk, rainblacker, dragonkingme- Your assignment will be to use the posemaniacs link and do 30 second gestures. follow the link go to the 30 sec poses section and do those. work on those for about Five to 10 minutes. Do some life drawing. You have the choice of doing a still life or a human figure. We will stay away from environments for the time being. I do have a perspective sheet that I will provide for rainblacker and dragonkingme. I will do a more in depth tutorial for 2-point and 3-point perspective if you do not understand those. I will assume that everyone knows how to do 1-point perspective. If you don't I will go ahead and do that one for you as well. Post daily to show your commitment. I want you guys/gals to do that for me. You will see improvement all the way up a month is up.(approximately 30 days)

I type a long ass thing for you guys and it didn't post.( I am saying fuck on the inside) It took me an hour to type that shit! No worries. I will type to you guys individually later.


aedman- I want you to do 10 character concept thumbnails like the ones I have provided below. Don't do the big one though. I will give you 2 days to complete it. You will do the same with the other 2 characters. Base each of the 10 character blocks around a theme. For example: a satanistic priest. You should design based on the theme not straying away from it. I don't want to see a biker guy when he clearly like a biker guy when it should be a satanistic priest. You will be the one to pick your own themes to design from, unless you want me to be the one to pick them for you. I want you to be comfortable with what you will be drawing. later you will move to more detailed renderings then color. We will then focus on environments. Design will play a major role in what you will be submitting here. Do black and whites for those thumb sketches. YOu will have up to 6 days to complete those characters. All three of them, In total you should have 30 sketches. try to make them pro like or make them better quality than mines that is your aim! Good luck aedman. I will critique your thumbnails based on uniqueness of the design and quality.

[dragonkingme]

The 30sec pose exerise is really hard this is some of the stuff i got. I am embarressed to post them, they are terrible.

I do ok with one point perspective i have real troble with the others though, thank u for the charts

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233621.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233634.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233606.jpg

peace
DK

[Beelow]

dragonkingme- no worries dude. I don't expect you to be pro at this. I will guide you to get there. Main thing when doing gesture drawing is to get the gesture. Understand the movement of the figure. What gesture drawing is suppose to do is get you use to simplifying to basic shapes and simple line construction. I wish I had a chalk board, it would be simpler to explain it. continue to do them daily. do some longer sessions of these. 5 to 10 minutes up to an hour if you guts to that many thumbs. try not draw mainly sketch loosen up. understand the pose and draw it. Don't pay to much attention to what you are drawing on paper mainly pay attention to what you are drawing in front of you. The information is there not on the paper. Keep that in mind when your drawing. You are going to merely push your attention away from that and put your focus on the your subject. I will try to find a way to demonstate that too, that is if you need it. XD

[rainblacker]

Here are my still life and some perspective practice. I am getting ready to do the gesture drawings. I will scan and upload them too.

[shimi85]

The 30sec pose exerise is really hard this is some of the stuff i got. I am embarressed to post them, they are terrible.

I do ok with one point perspective i have real troble with the others though, thank u for the charts

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233621.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233634.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/233606.jpg

peace
DK

dont worry we all have to begin somewhere

[Beelow]

Rainblacker, good to see you doing some studies from life. Try to post some of the gestures. with your perspective stuff there are some things off. I will do a paintover later tonite. Try to use your ruler. What I do is sketch lightly before committing to a line. that is if I am going to go without a ruler. I want things to be fairly accurate when I do things in perspective. Some things to consider when you do perspective oriented drawings. there is nothing wrong with using a ruler as a tool. until you get control of what you are doing( hand eye coordination), stick with a ruler. I will have you do pencil sketches of environments later on, without the ruler. You are going to focus on controlling your hand.

[dragonkingme]

Hey all

here is some stuff i did today, i am happy to say that the pose stuff is a little better (you be the judge), and i try some perspective stuff. the 1point went ok but the 2 point was not very good.

as always thx for the help

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/pose5.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/life.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/2point.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/1point.jpg

peace
DK

[Beelow]

Here is a link to min yum's 30 sec sketches. This should be great inspiration and this will be your aim when you do your sketches. I want a series of these. Just like this:

http://minart.net/studies/anatomy-studies/316/

dragonkingme-Don't worry about perspective yet. I willl do a tutorial for 2-point and 3-point. I want to be understood when I give you directions on how to do those. Thanx for your consistency. I appreciate your dedication. Keep posting dailys. i am not expecting them to be lined up though. Try to attempt it though. Same thing for you rainblacker. Give me more of these. Continue to do studies, both from life and from posemainiacs. Again if you can find a local life drawing class that would be great. As far as your figures try to follow the figure. I will demonstrate.

[Beelow]

Opposing curves- remember to look for these. This is what you want to do when you are doing gestures. These feel more close to human. Dont do bubbles. You can also draw through. Get these gestures to feel more human. Line of action- Use the spine, belly, button rib, cage, breast, clavicle to find that center line. That gives you at least a good starting point, of where that body is flowing. legs and arms you can find the flow easily. Main thing is opposing those curves and finding that center line. Find that action. Find out what that body is doing. Another thing to point out is to find relative shapes that each body part is related to. Draw those things. I would suggest drawing the torso first. Why? Its the largest part of the body and it is very easy to figure out the porportion of the body with torso in place. Others great artists do different things, start on the head, hands, etc.(keep that in mind). Here is a process for you guys and gals. Remember oppose those curve no parenthesis (). The body does not do that. ;)

[Beelow]

The pillow you can replace with the torso. Relative shapes remember. thats not a 30 second sketch, that is if your concerned with that. Prolly about 3-5 minutes. red indicates opposing curves, blue indicates lin of action. Green indicates which curves are opposing. Again, find those opposing curves. ;)

[aedman]

First set of thumbnails for Bull of the Pampas (Bull of the Prairie) character. He is a nomadic, outsider, sometimes criminal figure. He travels cross country on his motorcycle without regards for roads, hence the name, he travels bullishly whatever path he wants. Note: he is presented as existing circa 1960.

[Beelow]

aedman-okay, good aedman. Your good with deadlines at least. One point I want to make is that you need to find a good base sillouette. feel free to copy and paste your sillouette over and over. I think that is a major problem here is that you've painted all of your poses. Try to find cut arounds to get stuff done by deadline. Copying and paste is lot more cleaner and it is allows for much more organized look. Here is the sample.

[aedman]

Beelow,

I guess I got a little preoccupied with practicing working digitally and quick rendering that I missed the point a bit. I will do some thumbnail sketches to decide a base figure down, I ended up playing around too much with the whole build of the character rather than focusing on the design that goes over it. It never hurts to get more practice, I'll redo the bull of the pampas character thumbs and use the more organized and professional approach you suggested on the other character designs as well. and if there's anything else I should correct or develop better/differently in the redo, let me know. Thanks.

[rainblacker]

I am sorry for m late posting, my internet just got fixed today. Yes I need a lot of work on perspective. I will start using a ruler. Here are some of my gesture drawings and life drawings. The 30 sec gesture drawings were tough. I could barely draw a partial outline before it would go to the next one. I will keep trying.

[Beelow]

aedman- You don't have to worry about reworking. Just keep that in mind. You have about 3 more days to get those other 20. 1 more day to finish up the second batch of 10. Stick to the deadline. I am merely giving you pointers. Again this about speed and consistency. I spent about 30 minutes on those thumbs. Important thing as you've mentioned is design. You're planning for the final piece. I still believe that a thumbnail can have some level of polish. Detail is not important at this stage. Again you will be doing 3 final character designs after all is said and done. Then we will get you into environments, possibly creatures, vehicles and a props. You've made your mission to have an environment and character designs ready. My mission is to get you to do that to best of my abilities and good quality work. Post the next set of sketches.

Also aedman, try to get a hold of a book, Skillful Huntsman, I highly RECOMMEND it. It's a good read, and it should help you with the planning stage a bit more. There is nothing really new the way I do things, I had to learn it to. The book is from Design Studio Press. They have a website and you can order it from there. You may be able to find it for cheap as well.

Rainblacker- Read through post 20. Oppose you lines. Also try to find that center line. Try to look at what your drawing more than what you are drawing on paper. That is important! Looking at what you are drawing. You are trying to mainly, build a visual bank of what you are drawing. Also speed is another thing that you want to get down. You want to be able to deliver faster in a more timely fashion, when you are concepting. Quality inspires as well. You will be working on that. Keep up with the daily posts. Just don't give me a drought period of you not posting. Unless you have a really good reason to. Thanks for posting. XD

[Jacob Kobryn]

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself...
My brother Beelow in kashak, he retard...
Nice info here. Everyone should read the mentoring threads even if they're not under their mentorship.

[rainblacker]

Here are some more 30 sec gesture drawings from today. I was trying to get the opposing lines thing going. They didn't turn out that good but I will keep trying.

[rainblacker]

These are some drawings I tried from an animal drawing book.

[Beelow]

rainblacker- Find that center line first. Work the torso in the beginning. It's the largest thing on the body. Technically, you can start from anywhere, but it is much tougher to figure out porportion, lets say if you start from the hand. Here is a photo from Kindgirls that I painted over just to show you that center line. That is the main thing that you want to see is that center line. The middle of the ribcage. belly button, gives it away. Remember that the human body is in most cases symetrical, visually. There are things that a subtly off. Try a different approach draw those poses relative to a shape.Still try to oppose those curves though. Draw that shape. Engrain it in your head that what you are describing on paper is shape. Your interpreting form into line and shape. Line and shape do not exist in reality. Only form, Form is what you will be describing in line and shape. This where it exist at on paper. Thanks for your continued contribution to this thread. Continue to post dailys. This is the only way you will get good is to keep a pencil in your hand and draw day by day. A basketball player dribbles and plays everyday. Apply the same thing. Practice, practice, practice, learn on top of that. Most important have fun! XD

[Beelow]

those green and blue lines indicate the curves and that center line. the dark red indicates the curves that are opposing and the bright red indicates the angles of the torso and head. Let me redo that. I think it is a bit confusing.

[rainblacker]

life drawing today of a shoe:

[dragonkingme]

hey dude just wanted to appologize for not posting in the last few days i had an exam. ill post some stuff tomarrow evening.

peace
DK

[rainblacker]

Here is some perspective practice I did with a ruler today.

[aedman]

second set of thumbs, depicting a mephisto/faust/ inspired character, some historical "deal with the devil" character who appears in a series of hallucinations by another character. I wanted to try placing the character at different parts of the spectrum- from near jester to knight to noble. I want to continue exploring this design in a sort of jester/noble hybrid.

Again I went overboard with rendering but I didn't feel like I could get across the right information about the type and pattern of the material. I know there is a better way to do it. I'm going to set a time limit of 4 minutes per thumbnail for the next time around and accept the results so I can better assess what I need to learn for quicker designs.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/mephistothumbs.jpg

[rainblacker]

more perspective practice with ruler.

[Beelow]

rainblacker- Thanx for posting. Just really worry about the figurative stuff and life drawing. I want you to get better with drawing what you see first. I will get around to explaining perspective a bit later. Its good to be ambitious, but I want you get control of your hand and drawing those figures. Take things one at a time.

Dragonkingme- No worries. PM next time ok. Let me know there. Don't drought out your posting. I want you to post dailys for a reason. I draw everyday and I want you to do the same. You will not grow if you don't commit to drawing everyday. Even 10 minutes will be good for me. Keep posting dude.:wink:

aedman- Okay, pose is wonky. Pull ref for a good pose. YOu can also use other artist's work to get a good visual base of what you want to do. Don't copy just study what they do. Okay, I am looking at it, and it seems that you are having problems with distribution of weight. I will do paint over and I will explain a little more about distribution of weight.

There are a couple of pose that I've created here, a little while back. They are a bit more of a finish. But, what I want you to see is the sillouette. The last upload is carlos juante, for inspiration. I just want to show you the variation of the sillouettes, in what you can do. Again this is just sketching and concepting. Give the character good poses to add interest. Check out how carlos juante executed his sillouette and cut in detail. I think he did his design with airbrush though. Still same principles, but different tools. Principles never change.

All in all looking good your making progress. Grow with your skill at the same time though. waiting for that last set. I will give you an extra day or 2 since I slacked on posting.

[Beelow]

Woops, Carlos Juante's work here is digital, hehe. My bad.
Here is a link to more of his work if your interested:
http://www.carloshuanteart.com/

[rainblacker]

Okay, I will focus on the life drawing and figure drawing.

[dragonkingme]

Ok im back

here are some pose sketches i did. I dont think i understand the idea of opposite curves but i gave it a try anyway.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/pose7.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/pose6.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/pose5-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/dragonkingme/pose4.jpg

peace
DK

[Beelow]

rainblacker-Good good. try to vary your line wieght. where values are dark thicken your line. thin the lines nearest to your light source. Dont work on value yet. Stick with lines for the time being.

dragonkingme- When you oppose your curves, your mearly offsetting them from eachother. YOu don't want to have any Parenthesis in your figure. The silloutte of the figure have opposing curves don't much. It almost looks bubble or balloon like if you use this () as oppose look at some of my example on the photo. The green. In the photo indicates opposing.

Try to see them in your figure studies. Look for them. They will be happening in the arms and the legs often. Sometimes it is subtle and other times it is really distinct. See whatever you are drawing as form see the shapes. Hope I explained it a bit better. Let me know if you are still confused. XD Keep posting.

[rainblacker]

I don't think I really understand the line weight thing. I tried to vary my line some but I don't think it is like what you are talking about.

[Beelow]

Okay the main thing that you want to focus on aedman is just the posture of your figure. Try to get a strong good looking figure then design on top of that. Nothing too elaborate is going to happen here. I like to use the poses that I am designing on for a final rendering. Work small if your finding yourself starting to get into detail. I usually don't go over 500x800 dpi 72 resolution both ways. Most of the time I screw up scale and proportions and adjust the canvas larger. But, I always bump it back down. When I settle and see something visually working and pleasing, then I will go up on my canvas size. Again this is planning and trying to figure out what design you will go with. Here is the paintover I promised. Try to dummy it down but make the sillouette a bit more believable. Use some of the lessons that I am teaching others as well to help you out with figuring out porportions. Try to find ref for a pose paint the sillouette of that then go crazy with the designs. Don't let the photo hinder your creativity. Just use the photo mearly as guideline to help with staying close to the human figure. You don't want to make the pose up and create a pose that does not look believable. Keep going though aedman. Making progress. I had to reitterate that, Hehe! XD

[Beelow]

rainblacker- Okay the yellow bulb indicates lightsource, green indicates direction of light source. When I say line weight, thick to thin lines is what I mean. Look at the paint over I supplied you at the bottom. I am using thick to thin to indicate lightsource. Where ever the form has more light recieved is where you are going to thin out you lines. Thicken your lines with fatter strokes areas away from the lightsource. Let me know if your still having troubles understanding that at all. Thanx for your consistent posting. Continue to post daily. Try to do alot more if you can. The more drawing and painting you do the better you will be. Try to work hard at it and try to understand what your drawing. Keep at it.

[aedman]

This character is a amateur scientist of sorts, observer of phenomena, experimenter. He collects junk cars, insects, plant specimens- all arranged in similar manner. He designs and builds his own examination and collection devices.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/bobbugthumbs.jpg


Some other thumbnail designs and practice for one of Steve Kim's assignments but I think it's relevant. Oh and I ordered the Skillfull Huntsman, looks like an excellent source for better understanding the design process. Thanks for letting me know about it.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/ladythumbs.jpg

http://www.edmanstudios.com/moosemanthumbs.jpg

http://www.edmanstudios.com/ministerthumbs.jpg

http://www.edmanstudios.com/travelerthumbs.jpg

http://www.edmanstudios.com/thumbdevelop2.jpg

[rainblacker]

I kind of understand what you are saying about line quality and light source. The problem for me is to translate that into execution of the idea. I will continue to practice it. I will also work harder so I can make more drawings. I am kind of slow drawing and the ones I do take a long time, but I am committed to producing more drawings and getting better so I will work harder.

Question: To get thick lines, do I need a certain type of pencil? I have just been using No. 2 pencils.

Here are the two drawings I did so far today. I will upload the rest when I finish them. thanks. rain

[rainblacker]

more drawings:

[rainblacker]

Here are some drawings from today. I am still drawing so I will post more later.

[Beelow]

aedman- Cool to hear that you studying with steve kim. He's definitely got things going on with his work(he's really good). Looking better. Poses are stiff still, but better. Okay, new assignments are:

1. pick 3 out of the 10 designs that you've done for each of the 10 character blocks that you've created thus far. Do tighter renderings of those three designs. Hot them up. Do them like those renderings that I've provided in post 37. Try to spend no more than a couple of days on each on of them. That gives you 18 days to finish all of them. If you get them down to one a day, do that instead(That's asking for alot, I am not expecting you to them in 9 days).

2. Don't do color renderings yet. I we will do that next. What I want you to understand is the process of planning and try to get use to doing this in your workflow. Again, not everyone follows this process, but I think it is very common way of working.

Prepare yourself for color renderings, aedman. We will get there soon enough. I will give you basic advice on how to approach color when we get there. I understand color a bit. I am no expert, but I will give you what I know as far as applying color. Oh as far as weight distribution, you want the body to catch itself. You don't want your figures to feel like they are falling, floating, or look uncomfortable and unatural. You want it natural you want it grounded. Everything in the body reacts to hold the weight. I will show you in illustrations. There is alot to explain. I said that I would explain it and I forgot hehe my bad. Go ahead and start with those tighter black and whites though. Keep posting! XD

rainblacker- Nice nice. Try to do some photo studies from kindgirls I think I provided the link on the first page. there are some pretty good ref to study from. Post the ref along with it though. Continue to work on those gestures and doing studies from life. Again, I know this is redundant, you gotta keep doing it in order to get better. The assignments will get harder and harder. Keep it up. XD

[rainblacker]

Here is a study from kindgirls. I seem to draw too big. I couldn't get the entire image on the page. I don't know how the scale the drawing to the size of the drawing paper. Well anyway I did the best I could with what I could fit on the page. I had a lot of trouble with the breast area. I spent quite a while on the drawing but still couldn't nail it down but here is my attempt and the reference photo.

[Beelow]

Good so far. You need to control where you place the figure. Try to do the gesture first. Nail down the pose and try to get down the action of the pose. Ask yourself what is she doing. Then ask yourself where every body part is placed. Draw that. control it though. Start loose then, start doing the detail. Longer sessions does not necessarily mean abandon the gesture, remember that. The gesture is most important and will be key to your success in where you place the figure. Pick a spot on the page and draw it right there. Don't go any bigger than what you intented to do( you gotta force yourself to do it). Have a mission, a plan of action. Use the gesture as the base then get into detail to sum it up. And definitely stay within the allocated space of the page. Keep at it. Keep posting like this you will surely improve. I really am glad that you have kept up your posting. I really appreciate that. Continue to post daily as usual. XD

[aedman]

Here's a more rendered, larger version of one of the scientist thumbs. I was wondering if it's okay to change the pose for the next couple- I thought it might be a good way to explore the personality of the character a bit and keep from getting too formulaic in how it's rendered/presented. There may be good reasons to not go that route though, let me know what you think. I'll stick to maintaining the pose more or less for the next one until I hear what you recommend.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/bobglassgray1.jpg

[Beelow]

Go ahead and do so. What I wanted you to get to understand is getting a really good pose in the beginning so won't have to adjust and get you use to deadlines. Also you are free to clean up the poses and change them up a bit. Remember you are planning for the color rendering. But, go ahead and explore your characters more. I would like to see what you come up with.

Here is a senario for you to get you to understand why I set these project the way I did. Keep in mind that you are getting paid to pay off bills feed your kids, etc. If you were to get a gig and you would have to do 15 Illustrations that night to send it off the next morning, how will you go about getting those 15 Illustrations done? What tools would you use to get through those 15 Illlustrations in a night and make them good. That is the extreme worst case. If this is right, I think Mike butkus did this. My teacher told me about this guy. Check his work out, he has a website. I think he banked on the project as well.

[rainblacker]

Not feeling too well today. I have a bad cold, but I was able to draw one life drawing. Will post more tomorrow.

[aedman]

What you are saying process wise makes a lot of sense, I caused myself a bit more trouble in the long run by not being more careful in the earlier stages. I'm trying to figure out some shortcuts and ways to do things quickly while keeping a level of quality and learning that I am reasonably happy with. I really appreciate the kind of information and ways of working you are presenting, it's outside my realm of experience and while it all makes sense, a lot of these things haven't occurred to me.

Here's a bit of a variation on the scientist character, a more youthful version.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/bobglasstype2.jpg

[rainblacker]

Life drawings from today. I have a lot of problems with the circular parts of objects.

[Beelow]

aedman- No worries dude, that is why you are working with me. I still have my problems still with other things and I am still trying to grow and get better every day. I study, read alot and draw, daily. I also go to work and draw as well. You just gotta keep doing it. Although, I work vectors I still have to plan for composition of belly glass and do sketches for symbols base game and a bonus game. It's pretty good practice and I've learned alot about text and design. I still lack in some areas when it comes to painting. Texture and Composition and Design I still feel week in. I am still stubborn to ref some other artists and how they approach composition and do the same thing. Remember finding a particular way to work first to get results is like having training wheels on a bike. Once you are comfortable with taking the training wheels off, you will have to still learn how to ride the bike without them. But, you've learned how to the pedal the bike and move it foward. Now the next task is to balance the bike and not fall off. See drawing and painting as that. That is why I gave you a particular way of working. If you feel comfortable with loosing the "training wheels" then go ahead and fly without it. Let me know, I expect to see good work coming from you. Also I expect growth fast. Keep at it though. You're sticking to the deadlines. Don't look back keep moving foward and learn from your mistakes made previously. Your doing good! XD

rainblacker- I will show you a way to work with cylindrical stuff. It's a bit difficult to get that to work right. You will have to set up a cube and cut into the cube and get the cylinder out of it. Keep posting those daily's.

[rainblacker]

attempted some gesture drawings:

[Beelow]

rainblacker-If I don't post in a couple or a few days, keep on posting. You don't have to wait for me to reply to every single thing. What I want to see is more drawing, so you can improve on your work. Don't hesitate to post anything. Your here to learn, and I am here to teach. Drawing everyday and posting consistently everyday, if you can post more and do more drawing, will make me even happier. I am loaded with stuff to do everyday. I draw here at home and at work. I draw about 12 hours a day. If you want to grow faster, you've got to commit to it. You will have to make sacrifices to improve more. In the beginning I did not work after I graduated from college. I knew I was not good enough to get a concept job. I submitted a portfolio and was immediately rejected, because I just was not ready. I've only been painting for not a long time. Drawing was second nature, but I had my issues. I was also hardheaded and caused a stir at eatpoo because of the quality of my work. Of course, your not going down the same path because you asked for my help, but I want you to really think about doing art as a career. I was asked if I wanted to be a fine artist or a commercial artist. Concept art is a career and you be a commercial artist. You will be doing other peoples work to get paid and you will have to get accustomed to what they want and deadlines. You will have to be able to adjust to get paid. The more you can do the better you will get paid. Also you will be building a reputation for yourself so there will be a demand for you. But, you will hard to get there. You've got guys that are really good young and can compete. And there is the old school cats that have been doing it for years. You need to take a look at this in perspective, and ask yourself if your up for doing this the rest of your life, get income. Most guys can't hang, because they just cannot do the job. Your portfolio is what will get you in. Interview and all that hoopla is secondary. You will have to understand thoeries such as: Color theory, Composition, Design, Anatomy, Perspective, etc. to show that you can do it. It starts with the commitment and dropping all of that other stuff that is wasting your time. There is only 24 hours in a day dude. It will tick away just like that. What you want to do with your time is strictly up to you. But again, I bust my ass 12 hours a day to get this point. I am still going to grow, I am finna get mines. Do you want have that attitude? I love what I do, I've made alot of sacrifices to draw, even not working for just some crap fast food job. I'm in the biz now of doing commercial art. The learning will never stop unless you want it to. You will plateau when you say you will. It's going to be on you, my man. YOu see what aedman is doing, you will be doing the same, when I feel that your ready to do it. Show me your commitment, Posting daily will be a start. Posting more would put a big ass smile on my face, that lets me know that your serious about doing this and that your not just only wasting my time. I have children, have a job, have bills to pay and I still have to paint and maintain and grow to get more work to get paid to get more tools to support my hobbie and plus my job and to travel get a new and all that stuff. So don't waste my time. I am just letting you know the deal and (like we say in the hood) keeping it gangsta. I'm glad that you've been posting at least. Post more though. Fill the quota at least, by doing the daily posts. Keep at it though your doing good and you have not quit on me yet. I will continue to give you my time, just give me more to work with. XD I will do some paintovers for you.

[Beelow]

here you go:

[rainblacker]

Hi Beelow,

I do appreciate your time. I wasn't waiting for you to post yesterday. I just figured what I did draw yesterday wasn't of interest to you since it wasn't life drawing or gesture drawing. For the past couple of days I have been doing some Betty Edwards right brain type exercises. I believe they help improve my focus and patience, that's why I do them. They are a bit time consuming because first I draw them right side up and then up side down usually. Also I have been experimenting with ways to try to understand the 30 pose drawings better. I've been having an awful lot of trouble understanding them. So what I came up with was to get some magazine and some tracing paper and try to draw box-like shapes on the people in the magazines to help me understand the body sections better when I look at the figures for the 30 sec drawings. After drawing over them with the box-like shapes on the first piece of tracing paper, I take another piece of tracing paper and try to find the opposing curves. I feel that this has been helpful for me because now when I look on the figures on the 30 sec poses I don't go completely blank in my mind. I actually see box shapes. So I'll attach all the drawing activities that I have been doing of the past couple of days.


I am sorry if you feel that I am wasting your time. Again I do appreciate all the time you volunteer. I work between 12-14 hours a day Monday-Saturday to help my mom out and to save to take a few months off to dedicate to drawing and some classes I have been wanting to take. I don't usually post on Saturdays because I usually work longer shifts that day. Currently I get up 2 hours early to draw before work and I try to draw an 1 hour after work. I know I need to draw more and I am going to try to build up to four hours. I understand what I post doesn't look like much, but the life drawings especially take me a long time. I'm working on speed but I don't want to make you any guarantees I can't keep. So I understand if you don't want to continue. I will keep drawing and pushing towards my goals regardless. As far as concept and commercial art go, I do want to make graphic novels but not necessarily for huge profit--it would be very nice if that did happen though--but manly for me as a goal I achieved and self publishing is the way I want to do it.

[rainblacker]

Here are the rest: The first five of these are 30sec gestures, then a life drawing, the 4 magazine traces, then a negative space drawing, then my tracing box experiments.

[Beelow]

rainblacker- I am not at all saying that I am quitting out on you. Just work, work, work. I do this for a living. Your speed will be important. Lay your lines down with confidence. Then move on to the next one and keep doing it over and over and over, until it clicks. That's what I am looking for heavy posts! Keep at it! If you miss a couple days I expect to see double if you don't have time to post. I just want to see that you are drawing and not just goofing around. Seems like your serious to me, and you have not wasted my time. I appreciate your dedication. Keep posting.

I've provided a sketch in my previousp post. Try to get those opposing curves down. Remember you don't have much time to get form down within the 30 secs. You have to capture the essence of the pose, catch the gesture. See what that body is doing. I will have to give you a little bit more information, to get you to see what the body is doing. I will do that later tonight. Thanx for the dump!XD

I think I am seeing improvement, now. By next month I will start you off with doing sillouettes. I am going to try to catch you up with aedman. ;)

[aedman]

3rd scientist... not quite happy with it but I need to get on with the others. The reason I want to switch up the poses isn't because I think I have any better method for myself- your system is a good one, I just want more practice working digitally because I have a harder time doing the whole process- initial drawing to finished work that way. Sorry that I'm a little behind, I'm going to use this weekend to catchup and knock out a few more.

http://www.edmanstudios.com/bobglass3.jpg

[aedman]

from one of the bull of the pampas thumbs

http://www.edmanstudios.com/bull1s.jpg

[rainblacker]

Still working on the 30 sec drawings.

[rainblacker]

Some long figure studies. Will try to post more tonight.

[Beelow]

aedman- Nice, nice. Try to reference the pose, you are still struggling with getting those sillouettes down and making them feel natural and pleasing to the eye. They seem way to uncomfortable. Move on to doin colored detailed renditions. I will help you with the polish by giving critiques to get those poses to be lovely. Once you are finished, organized everything that you have done in a manner that is presentable and I will analyze everything that you have done. Try spend a good amount of time on rendering those three characters. Again correct some of those poses. You can also do some face variations and share them. I will have you do turnarounds as well. Do black and whites for those. Hot these images. I will give you about a week to do each character.

1.turnaround poses, presentable to a 3d modeler, of all three characters
2. color finished renditions of all 3 characters
3.(optional, and very useful) Face studies, gives yourself options for the design of overall character, and to make them fit their persona
4.Blow me away, do it better than me(this is a must!!!)

rainblacker- Again, thanks for the pm. Hope to see you back in a couple days. I see improvement. Try to use as much of the page as possible. There is alot of white paper that can be used for more drawing. Remember that you are studying and trying to figure things out. Study what you are drawing. And, use alot more of that paper. Another thing, less time looking at your paper and more time paying attention to what you are drawing. Don't make anything up. My teachers even my boss here say's "Draw what you see." Do that. Your forms are starting to read realistically, keep improving on it. Your missions is to get me to whats that phrase we say in da hood, "Ride your nuts." I won't do that for real thought. Keep at it though. I think by the end of this month we will move on to some fun stuff, creating some characters. Then we will move on to environments.

[rainblacker]

Just got back. I stayed a day longer than expected. Here are some drawing I just did.

[Beelow]

rainblacker-Try filling in those gaps on the page. Do some tiny renderings. Do variations fill up the page as much as possible.

[Beelow]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1275108&postcount=103

here is a pretty good example of just filling the page. You have alot of white showing. I hope this is giving you an idea of what I am talking about. Do this with your life drawing.