Need help making an important decision.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

So right now I'm enrolled at an art school (no names mentioned). I've worked really hard for the last year or so trying to get into the school, and to stay at the top of my game. I thought I was doing really well at this new school, until I made one stupid little mistake that resulted in me getting penalized. At this school, they take professionalism really seriously, so the staff gave me a huge lecture about it and what sort of professional attitude they expect of me. Then, they started suggesting that the program isn't right for me, and that I should just withdraw. I really enjoy the school, but this type of talk from the faculty is putting me under a lot of stress, and I don't think I'll be able to cope with it if it continues. And this isn't the first time it's happened.

They're really particular about everything they do, and if a student screws up, they get the talk. Today, the school administrator showed her ugly side, and I barely got a chance to defend myself. She kept bringing me down, and cut me off whenever I tried to speak (Remember that scene from Superman Returns when Lex Luthor yells, "WROOOOOONG!!!!!!" right when Lois Lane tries to speak? It was like that). By the end, I felt completely powerless and inferior. The last time it happened, I couldn't concentrate for the rest of the week, because I had the threat of failure hanging over my head.

Anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe I should withdraw. I kinda miss my old school, and this one makes me feel like a big fish in a small pond. I can draw circles around most of my classmates, but I'm getting penalized simply because I'm not doing some basic exercises exactly the way they want me to. In our life drawing class, we've done nothing but gestures and blind contours for the last month, and we haven't made any progress at all in our painting class (at my old school, we'd start painting on the first day).

My old school was a lot more self-directed. It's nowhere near as intense as the one I currently attend, but there are some students there who have more artistic talent in their little finger than my new school's entire student body. If I went back there, I'd be able to move forward at my own pace without having to put up with some seemingly ambiguous things about the curriculum. On the other hand, I know my new school guarantees results in the long run. But I don't know if it's worth it if I have to deal with the faculty's one-sided, intolerant, buerocratic attitude. My old school was a lot more laid back, and as long as you came to class, did the work and made an effort to do well, there was no problem. Plus the tuition was a lot cheaper.

So basically I'm faced with a dilemma. I could return to my old school, do a three-year fine art diploma (with my own choice of courses), and be done in three years. On the other hand, I'd miss out on some really good training (a few of the teachers, in my experience, barely give any instruction at all, but it's like that at my new school as well). I could also try another art school (OCAD, George Brown, Seneca, etc), but that might be a little too overwhelming. I deliberately chose the one I'm at right now because of its small class size and intimate environment, which I really benefit from. Plus it's a much shorter commute.

What I've decided so far is this: I'll continue with this school until the end of the term, and then decide. Assuming I pass, I could continue, or start at another school in January. If I continue, I'll see how well I can adapt to the curriculum, and try my best. But if it doesn't work out, my old school is probably my best option.

Does anyone have any advice?

[Storyboard Dave]

Something here isn't grocking with me here.

You made one "stupid little mistake" and you were penalized for it? Could we elaborate a little more on what this little faux pas was? And what is the penalty?

Even professionals make mistakes on their jobs and I'm always under the impression that schools are to be incubators for the real world. I agree if you made a little mistake, you should be told/ lectured to; that's a faculty's job- they need to explain to you how and why it's wrong. And if it's only one faculty member- you do have a right to appeal to a dean or their superior.

I'm also dubious as to what kind of school "guarantees" results in the long run. I think I teach at a top notch school and I wouldn't be as so bold to make that prediction of ANY of my students because the burden still falls upon them to succeed- it's not a school's responsibility to guarantee success.

It sounds as though you've already made up your mind as to what you plan on doing so I'm not exactly sure what advice you're looking for. Without knowing more minutia as to the mistake you made, I'm left to wonder who I'd favor. You've admitted an error but without knowing more details, it's awkward for any of us here to judge whether the faculty member is correct in their role. And it might not be the most professional way of handling it as well, but is it worth quitting an entire program over?

Do realize that this sort of scenario plays out every day at the work place as well... maybe not to this level of drama you've described but you will have run-ins and disagreements with superiors. How one deals with it (and their incompetance) will also be a measure of your abilities.

Nobody ever said an art career is solely about art. It's also about diplomacy, professionalism, respect, tolerance and a business sense.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

Alright, I've done a bit of research, and here's what I've been thinking:

I haven't made a decision yet, but some of the schools I've visited look pretty promising. I can't go to OCAD (because it's a university) unless I take grade 12 English again (I didn't get a very high mark), and I really don't want to do that, but I haven't completely ruled it out as an option.

Graphic Design at George Brown, or Animation or Graphic Design at Seneca seem like pretty good options. I talked to some of the staff about my situation, and whether or not I'd fit in. They didn't seem too concerned; and representative from Seneca said he was trained in fine arts, so he understands what I'm talking about. However, they said that in the long run, I need to be able to follow directions and work with others, but I don't think they're as anal as the staff from the school I just withdrew from. I'd rather not have to worry about a long commute, but I'll apply to Sheridan and consider it as an option anyway.

All these programs allow me to start in January if I apply now (and get accepted), but I don't think I want to rush into it that fast. I just came out of a really bad school environment, and I want to make sure the next school I go to isn't a repeat of that.

I've heard some bad things about the International Academy of Design, but I'll check it out anyway to see what it's like.

So anyway, it looks like I'll end up going back to TSA (for now, at least). I may or may not stay for the whole diploma, but I'll apply to some other schools in January, and see how it goes. However, I really think staying at TSA is my first choice, but I'm worried that I won't get very far professionally unless I go to a more respected school.

Do I really need a diploma or a degree from Sheridan, Seneca, or George Brown? Do employers in this field of work even care what school you went to, or does it all come down to your portfolio? Will a fine art diploma from TSA get me any recognition whatsoever?

[Storyboard Dave]

Do I really need a diploma or a degree from Sheridan, Seneca, or George Brown? Do employers in this field of work even care what school you went to, or does it all come down to your portfolio? Will a fine art diploma from TSA get me any recognition whatsoever?

Like so many of the other threads mention here- it's not your pedigree that gets you a job. You'll need a solid relevant portfolio to land the job; and when I mean relevant- it's a portfolio that looks like something the job is going to require of you.

And once you land the job, you also have to be able to work within a team concept as well. That's one of the toughest things to teach in school- the vague concept of being able to get along with a team mate, a superior or another person. Sometimes you'll have to work with a difficult client, an egomaniacal boss or a total boor and you'll have to make do, compromise or suck it up.

Good luck in making your choices and following through.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

Thanks Dave. I'm going to check out the Internaltional Academy of Design tomorrow, so if anyone has any criticism (positive or negative) about that school, I'd love to here it. The tuition is a bit pricey, but the woman I talked to over the phone seemed to understand my situation very well, and assured me that the curriculum is very open-minded and self-driven.

Another thing that made me appreciate the school is that they'll accept just about anything for the portfolio, and they encourage a variety of media (including digital), so I'll definitely be including some digital renderings if and when I apply.

[Seedling]

Azeroth, does your “one stupid little mistake” have anything to do with copyright violation, or is your stance on copyright a separate issue? Are you not aware that copyrights protect your work, or that by being anti-copyright, you are likely to find yourself shunned by professionals here?

[edit] In the event that anyone reading this is wondering what’s up, our friend Azeroth had “DEATH TO COPYRIGHT!!!!!!!” or somesuch under his username, and a matching avatar.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

I have every right to my own opinion, whether it's the same as yours or not. If you can't accept that, that's your problem.

[Seedling]

Considering that this is where professionals come to give advice to aspiring professionals, and assuming that you are an aspiring professional seeking such advice, you should consider supporting your opinion of copyright in a manner that doesn’t resemble a middle finger to those whose opinions you seek.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

Professional? Since when is it professional to attack someone just because you don't agree with what they say? If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but that doesn't give you the right to act like a total bitch. Honestly, why are you so offended by my distaste for intellectual property laws? If it feels like I'm flipping you the bird, I appologize. My beef isn't with copyright owners such as yourself; it's those who abuse copyright law to gain total control over how other people use their work.

My concern is that media conglomerates have been given too much power, and consumers and other creators alike have suffered terribly for it. More and more, intellectual property laws further inhibit their freedom (such as movements to have copyright terms extended, anti-circumvention legislation, software licenses, etc), and cultural innovation and creativity has been brought to its knees.

That said, copyright can have many benefits to the creators if used responsibly, but that is often not the case. From what I've seen, it does nothing but corrupt content owners with greed, and bring out the worst in creators everywhere. I believe there should be some protection, but a big chunk of control has to be relinquished back to the public domain. If the only solution is to abolish copyright altogether, then so be it.

That is why I have no intention of ever copyrighting my work, and I don't believe any rational-thinking creator who truly cared about free expression would either. I realize many people don't share my vision, and that's fine. But whether you agree with me or not, my stance on the issue is none of your business. You can either accept my right to a free opinion, or you can piss off.

[Seedling]

Now that’s more like it, Az. The problem is that by posting a three-word bumper-sticker under your user-name, you are unintentionally telling everyone here that “I support those who would steal your work.” By sophomorically blurting your views in such a manner you are putting people off before they ever get the chance to find out the depth or intelligence of your position, thereby screwing yourself.

Now, since you have already ruined any chance of getting off to a good start with me, I’ll cheerfully tell you that just as you have every right to your position, I have every right to tell you what a moron you are being. If you want a career in the illustrative arts, you’d better clean up your attitude before you foul up any more of your future networking.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

Whatever you say.

[Seedling]

I have reported you to the moderators.

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

Alright, I'll admit that was uncalled for, but you were being a total bitch.

[Seedling]

No, really, I imagine you'll be banned for that. It's a good thing I took a screenshot.

[Storyboard Dave]

That said, copyright can have many benefits to the creators if used responsibly, but that is often not the case. From what I've seen, it does nothing but corrupt content owners with greed, and bring out the worst in creators everywhere. I believe there should be some protection, but a big chunk of control has to be relinquished back to the public domain. If the only solution is to abolish copyright altogether, then so be it.

That is why I have no intention of ever copyrighting my work, and I don't believe any rational-thinking creator who truly cared about free expression would either. I realize many people don't share my vision, and that's fine. But whether you agree with me or not, my stance on the issue is none of your business. You can either accept my right to a free opinion, or you can piss off.

As someone who's been totally ripped off before I would and have fought for even more stringent copyright laws. It's one thing to have free expression but it's also an entirely different matter to be so blatantly ripped off. It's not just about my artwork, the control of it but it also has to do with the long term financial remifications. If we as creators don't protect our own work, who will?

Dare I assume this was that "stupid little mistake" that you never really answered me about early on?

[Seedling]

Thank you Elwell.

[Elwell]

Azeroth has been banned for a month, for obvious reasons (which have nothing to do with his opinions on intellectual property laws, and everything to do with how he chooses to express those opinions). If and when he comes back, I expect he will be on his best behavior. If not, there will be no third chance.

[Ilaekae]

...?






...wtf?

[Jason Manley]

actually I did not see this thread. I banned him permanently for his pushing of illegal content distribution on the site. I did see someone changed his name to something more appropriate.

haha

Please do not unban this guy. He is gone for good. It also seems perty clear here why his instructors would see the need to yell at him. He is as thick skulled as any person who has ever visited this site.

[Elwell]

With a little digging, it's pretty easy to figure out what school is being talked about in the first post. I'd love to hear the other side of the story.

[Jason Manley]

yeah, it's max the mutt...which is at least showing some promise with their curriculum

[steve kim]

good to see the groan button is still alive and kicking in at least some parts of the forum :)

[Nightblue]

Copyright has as much to do with personal opinion as protecting one's purse from being pick-pocketed.

[Jason Manley]

www.conceptart.org/copyright if you want the legal lowdown on copyrights. This has to be shown to all MB employees when they start. I put this together with some lawyer folks for mb and sony santa monica. It will clarify 2d image copyright issues regarding "personal opinion".

[Storyboard Dave]

For some real nitty gritty and copyright issues, see what the Illustrators Partnership is rallying around:

http://www.illustratorspartnership.org/

These sort of issues not only affect those of us working now but for the future & livelihood of all illustrators.