Need to learn to oil paint

[Aardvarkphil]

Ok, I know it takes years of practice to learn to paint. I don't expect to be able to paint in a week. Never actually tried oil painting, apart from pushing round some raw umber in a kind of ebauche for life drawing. But my Mentor wants me to do a piece of work that reflects what I want to be doing in a year or two.
So I was thinking maybe stick to a limited palette. Cad red, Yellow ochre, ivory black and titanium white. I think those are the colours? Or is it lamp black? Does anyone know any resources, on the web, that I can try to pick up the basics of approach and colour mixing? And anything else you think I might need to know. Thanks for you indulgence, Phil.

[alesoun]

Seedling has this link in her signature http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98647
Hope it helps! Good luck.....

[Aardvarkphil]

Cheers Alesoun I will check it out and thanx for luck i'll need it. :)

[Elwell]

That palette (the "Zorn Palette") is a good start, especially for figure painting.
Definitely use ivory black, not lamp. Lamp black is much more powerful and harder to control.

[Aardvarkphil]

Thanks Elwell, I thought it was ivory. You are a scholar and a gentlemen. Hopefully will get to meet you at Seattle if I decide to go. Still in two minds, but I think I'm edging on going.:)

[Craig D]

There are two tutorial pages here,
http://www.studio2ndstreet.com/tutorials.html
from Ron Lemen on the limited or Zorn palette

[Aardvarkphil]

Craig D thanks that will help with the colour mixing loads. Better start practicing some mixing after tonight's watercolours class.

[Craig D]

Oops,
Thanks for fixing the link Tristan.

[Art_Addict]

Hey Phil,

Working with a limited palette can have its advantages when starting out ,but there's nothing wrong with painting with a full color one from the beginning.
Either way you'll learn about the paint's structure and handling.
Some students may be overwhelmed with a lot of colors on their palette when starting out so painting limited might be easier to focus on what's important.
Also you'll need to adapt to the colour variations and most importantly their
relationships. You'll definately find out it's all relative when you paint with the "Zorn palette" ( btw the historical accuracy of the Zorn palette is debatable,
but that's beside the issue :) )

What i'm trying to say is that the important thing is to become sensitive to
the colour and that has nothing to do with how many paint tubes you
squeezed out.

Oh and focus on value first, then on nailing the right color !!

Does anyone know any resources, on the
web, that I can try to pick up the basics of approach and colour
mixing?

Hmm colour mixing. No book in the world is gonna help you with that. You
have to do it. Remember that lighting situations are so complex and varied
that, " this is what to use for skintones" and other bullshit is not going
to help you when painting from life. All colour is relative and ALL colors can
occur when painting from life. They'll hit you when you least expect it.

Good luck !

[Aardvarkphil]

Art Addict thanks for heads up about 'Value' first and for most. Going to try a bit of colour mixing just to get a taste of how to get where I need to be. Got to whip up a life sketch. Then just dive in the deep end. Sink or swim(for a bit) and then sink, probably. But what the hell you got to try haven't you.

Thanks again for all the advice guys. If anyone else thinks of anything please post. I need all the help I can get.

Actually I have my first night class in oils tomorrow but I think that will focus on mixing warm and cold primary colours. Better sticking to limited palette for Mentor homework otherwise it will get to difficult I think.

[sweetoblivion314]

you might try vermillion red or tera rosa instead of cad red. Cad red is very saturated and can be distracting when trying to concentrate on value and temperature.

[Aardvarkphil]

Good call SweetOblivion314, I've read through Seedling's thread a few times. Must have just glossed over the particular shade of red. Will pick up a tube and try that. Cheers Phil

[Elwell]

A clarification:
Genuine vermillion is a bright, opaque orange red, very similar (but even higher in tinting strength) to cad red light. It was the most commonly used bright red pigment through the beginning of the twentieth century. However, it is highly toxic (mercuric sulphide), and extremely expensive. These days it's only available in oils from a few specialty manufacturers. Almost everything sold as "vermillion" is some sort of modern organic red pigment, most of which have little resemblance to the real thing. Cadmiums are really the best readily available substitute.

Terra rosa is an orangy shade of synthetic iron oxide (similar to mars red, venetian red, english red, etc). While not as high chroma as the cadmiums, the synthetic earth reds are very opaque and high in tinting strength. They can easily replace cads when super bright color isn't needed.

[Dizon]

Nice thread here. Very informative. I have a question if you don't mind me asking. :)

What colors would you need for a full color palette? Obviously all colors can be included, but for someone with a limited budget, what colors would do the job? Thanks.

[Art_Addict]

Hey Patdzon,

Yeah, it doesn't realy matter. Depends on the subject and interpretation as well.

Off course some colours are more versatile ten others.
I would make sure you have some earth tones, cadmiums, a blue, (wich can be expensive) alizarin crimson, viridian or sap and white ( zinc -titanium or lead )
Jeremy lipking's palette has a lot of reach, you might want to take a look at his.

In studio escalier they used a full colour one. Hmm let's see of the top of my head :

- Titanium white, flake
- nickel titanium yellow light
- naples yellow
- cadmium lemmon
- brilliant pink ( lovely color! )
- cadmium red
- cadmium orange
- coral red
- cadmium red purple
- Alizarin crimson
- King's blue
- cerulean blue
- ultramarine
- cobalt
- Permanent violet
- viridian or sap green
- raw umber
- burnt umber
- raw sienna
- transparent red oxide
- yellow ochre
- blue black
- ivory black

I probably miss a couple but it gives you an idea :)

[Dizon]

Yeah, I heard the folks at Escalier have a huge palette. Thanks.

[sweetoblivion314]

my teachers palette is:
titanium white
Naples yellow
Cad yellow light
Cad red med
tera rosa
yellow ochre
alizarin chrimson
ultramarine blue
cerulian blue
sap green
veridian
burnt umber

he doesn't always use them all but thats what he typically chooses from. he also said any palette covering the split primaries with burnt umber (if you dont want black) and white would work. Split primaries being 1 primary on each side of the true primary. So a slight yellow orange and yellow green, blue violet and blue green and red orange and red violet.

O and there is an article about Jeremy Lipking in the current issue of American Artist Workshop magazine. You should check it out.

[Jake Kobrin]

Hi!
I too am trying to learn oils. I notaced the mention of the zorn palette and I have a question. I don't have cadmium red but I do have cadmium scarlet. Can I use it unstead? And are there any tutorials on using the zorn palette? I'm going to bring my oils to the life drawing session tomarrow and I don't know if I should stick to a limited palette.

[Jake Kobrin]

BTW Todd Lockwood has an excelent article on color selection:
http://toddlockwood.com/faq.shtml#what_oils

[Aardvarkphil]

Ok so I've tried a couple of sheets of colour mixes. Decided to give Cad red and venetian red a go to see the difference. Other colours yellow ochre, ivory black(not lamp black as marked up) and titanium white.
214780
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Sorry I don't have any software to balance the images of the colour sheets properly. The question I have is where do I start with mixing skin tones. I realise this is a wide range of values. But any help would be appreciated.

[Seedling]

Good job with those studies.

Skin tones depend almost entirely on what else is in the scene, particularly the lights. A starting point would be to try mixing in dabs of all the other colors into white. But that’s only a starting point. Try painting a self-portrait, while focusing on getting accurate colors rather then on getting accurate details or an accurate likeness. That will teach you more than any formula.

[Jake Kobrin]

That's funny my vermillion looks more like your cad red... it's REALLY vibrant.

[k4pka]

Venetian red, yellow ochre + white is a good start with skintones in the light (daylight that is). Make them less orange with touches of blue (black is essentially a very dark blue).

[grenogs]

i find these work best as a basic: and you could basicly get any colour combination by mixing these.

lamp black
titanium white
cadmium red
cadmium lemmon
ultramarine blue
cerulean blue - very good for bright tropical skies and for mixing with yellow to get a nice lush green grass

indian red, good for mixing skin tones

if your just starting with oils, you should try out windsor&newton alkyds (fast drying oils) these can dry in an hour, so their actually perfect for illustration jobs or any other art that has a deadline, unlike traditional oils which can take forever. Also try other colours, as some can be slightly greasy, and more suited for layering. But basicly as long as you have the top 6, you can do anything with them.

[Aardvarkphil]

Seedling that sounds like a fine idea. I'm beginning to realise that it's not the colours you got it's the way you mix them. I guess just slogging away with colour studies and exercises like you suggest are the only way to get to grips with the complex subject of colour mixing. It ain't as easy as you think to mix an exact colour to match something. Practice practice practice and a few healthy doses of theory too.


Jake cheers that Todd Lockwood site is pretty cool
K4pka cheers for the info
Grenogs another interesting palette cheers


Got given a bottle of liquin. Not quite sure how to use it but would like to know because I'm starting to generate a ferocious amount of wet oil colour studies and mixing charts. Been looking on the web but not really too much other than dip your brush in it then into the paint. I mean how much should I use. Surely too much on the brush and the paint won't stay on. If anybody has an ideas or views on this they would be greatfully welcomed. Cheers Phil

[Chris Bennett]

Aardvarkphil: Liquin will fast become your best friend. You can use as much as you like with a mixture, even to the point of creating a transparent glaze. It acts like a siccative, i.e. increases the drying time and a small amount or large amount does the same job in ensuring that the paint is dry for the next day. Don't worry about the paint adhesion, it is perfectly sound and you will have no problems no matter how much you use. - It rather reminds me of an anecdote about Stanley Spencer whose reply to a question about the effects of the close proximity of a steaming kettle on a painting he was working on replied: "It won't fall off! If you kiss a with love you won't get the pox and if you put the paint on with love it won't fall off!" - Like I said, you will have a love affair with liquin....

On the buisiness of pallette here's what I would recomend:

Cad yellow medium
Cad red
Alizarin
Ultramarine blue
Titanium white

That's it, you can make practically anything with this combination of red, yellow and blue although a good turquoise will be beyond it's capabilities.

Oh, and mix it on a white pallette.

[Craig D]

Oh, and mix it on a white pallette.

True, and very helpfull, if you are painting on a white canvas (which you probably are)

If you are painting on a brownish tinged canvas a wood palette would match better. You will soon notice that colours next to and underneath what you are painting will influence what colour you perceive your paint to be.

[Jake Kobrin]

Can I just paint my palette white? Would I benefit by paying the 30 bucks and getting the Cad Red?

[Elwell]

You should be able to get a tube of cadmium red in a decent brand for at least half that. Do you need it? I can't say.

[Art_Addict]

Aardvarkphil: Liquin will fast become your best friend. You can use as much as you like with a mixture, even to the point of creating a transparent glaze. It acts like a siccative, i.e. increases the drying time and a small amount or large amount does the same job in ensuring that the paint is dry for the next day. Don't worry about the paint adhesion, it is perfectly sound and you will have no problems no matter how much you use. - It rather reminds me of an anecdote about Stanley Spencer whose reply to a question about the effects of the close proximity of a steaming kettle on a painting he was working on replied: "It won't fall off! If you kiss a with love you won't get the pox and if you put the paint on with love it won't fall off!" - Like I said, you will have a love affair with liquin....



Uhm.... No.

Why exactly do you want to use liquin, Aardvarkphil?

Many people have complained about it's ability to change color over time.
And it seems to have a tendency to delaminate as well when brushed into the surface as a medium.

When you are going for quick drying, use liquin. If you care about your painting, think before using mediums.

[Elwell]

I have no problem with Liquin.
Some people have big problems with Liquin.
Try it out, see how you like it. Glop a little on your palette, pick up a small amount with the tip of your brush and use it to thin the paint as you would a liquid medium.

[Chris Bennett]

Uhm.... No.

Why exactly do you want to use liquin, Aardvarkphil?

Many people have complained about it's ability to change color over time.
And it seems to have a tendency to delaminate as well when brushed into the surface as a medium.

When you are going for quick drying, use liquin. If you care about your painting, think before using mediums.

I can only speak from my own experience of course, but I have paintings made with the stuff that were painted more than ten years ago and look fine - and I'm particularly fussy about this sort of thing. Many clients of mine have portraits painted almost as long ago and I haven't had their lawyer ring me up yet!

[Aardvarkphil]

Art Addict I was hoping for some quick drying of colour studies and mixing studies. I'm not producing anything that could be classed as art from oils yet. But my back bedroom, which has been kinda turned into my north facing studio, is getting full of a lot of wet oil studies. The house is beginning to smell of oil paint, I don't mind this. When I walk through the door after work it is quite a motivating smell.
I realise that there are alot of different things you can add to oils out there. I'm sure I'll learn what to do with them and how they effect the paint. It just so happens I was given a bottle of Liquin, so I thought I would try it out. But I will bear you words of advice in mind as I learn more thanks again for your time and effort it is appreciated. Cheers Phil

[Chris Bennett]

Can I just paint my palette white? Would I benefit by paying the 30 bucks and getting the Cad Red?

If you have a lovely traditional mahogany palette then don't! Hang it on the wall and look at it, for it is a thing of great beauty. Get a piece of thickish MDF or plywood (assuming you are not holding it and using it from a painting table) and paint that white. Ordinary white oil based houshold paint is OK but for best results use bath enamel sanded between coats - it produces a marvelous and durable surface from which to work.

Craig D made a good point about white ground = white pallette. However, using a brown palette a little later in the painting assumes that it is a brown painting that is happening. If you need to be mixing on a surface that approximates to the tone you are actually working on in the painting then here is an alternative:
Use a piece of glass as your palette, under which you can place a piece of white paper at the begining of the painting to correspond to the canvas. Later you place a mid grey sheet or a specially prepared gradated one.
The thing about all this is that you can make it as complicated or as simple as you wish!

[Art_Addict]

The manufacturers of alkyd resins caution about alkyds habit of delaminating when mixed with oils.
The biggest problem with Liquin was, for a while, turning reddish upon drying. You could see that in unopened bottles on the dealer's shelves.
They were replaced with ones that turn brown. I'm just saying, it's worth asking yourself what can happen with the painting.

Off course it all depends on the uses. If you use it when painting alla prima as a diluent it's probably fine. Apart from the danger in turning darker over time.
But, when you mix an alkyd medium with paint used for layering, the layers don't bond making it likely to delaminate over time.

But for you Aardvarkphil I wouldn't worry about mediums so much alltogether.
Just paint a lot and start thinking about the uses of mediums in a later stage.
Just like I'm supposed to do :)

No magic lies in the materials, but in the principles applied !

Happy painting !
Tom

[Aardvarkphil]

Elwell thanks for the advice. This is the first medium I'm using. Which is why I was a little unsure.
Chris I like the idea of the glass palette. Nice and flat too, for easy mixing. Hard surface for easy cleaning as well I expect.
Art Addict, or may I call you Tom, Thanks again for the heads up.
You guys give a lot of food for thought. Which is great, its just what I love when I'm hungry to learn about a subject. I'm gonna pop over to the 'What books inspired you thread' to see if there is anything that might be useful. If anyone has any thoughts on this please feel free to post here.

[Verdaccio]

There are lots of good and bad things to say about any medium. The important thing to know is what do you want a medium to do in your paint?


Mediums alter the way the paint handles
Mediums can alter the physical appearance of the paint layer
Mediums can alter the drying properties of the paint layer


Mediums can make the paint level out, stand up, look dull, look bright, look jewel like, it can increase or decrease the amount of light transmission through the layer, it can make the paint dry faster, or slower, etc.

This means that the medium that works for someone who paints smooth and thin will not necessarily work for someone who paints impasto impressionistic. The fact is, you don't need to use a medium at all if you can get your paint to dance straight out of the tube. Regardless, you should use a medium that "fits" your style of painting and that feels good under your brush.

Where possible, mediums should be limited to about 20% of the paint - using too much of ANY medium can cause problems down the road. In my own experience, you don't need much of any medium to achieve the effect you want. I personally hold to about 20% medium to paint and I vary my medium used based on what I hope to achieve.

Liquin is composed of an Alkyd resin, mineral spirits, a synthetic oil, white bentonite clay, and cobalt dryer. It's addition to paint tends to level out layers. It does not hold strokes well. It enhances drying time. I have several paintings more than 15 years old done with it and they look fine.

Experiment with many different mediums. See which ones work for how you want to paint and help you achieve the effects and look you want to achieve.

[Chris Bennett]

Verdaccio, that is an excellent account of what mediums do and how they work. Many thanks!

[Elwell]

Is that the same Verdaccio from WC and the old days of Cennini?
If so, long time no see, and welcome!

[Verdaccio]

Hey Chris and Tristan! Thanks for the welcome. :) Yes, I am the same person from those days. Dropped out of forums for a couple of years to focus on my art and escape the drama. :P

I really like this site and what you all are doing here. This is really amazing!

Michael Georges
www.fineportraitsinoil.com

[Aardvarkphil]

Veradaccio thanks for the excellent description of mediums and welcome. At the moment I've got everything to learn. I'm just starting into oils, and I must say I love them already. I'm sure I will start experimenting with other mediums soon. Trying to learn the basics before getting to adventurous, so just a little quick drying for the moment I think.

[Verdaccio]

Phil:

You will love oils. They are 600 years old and are really a perfected method of artistic expression. They are so forgiving. While you are learning, certainly absorb and learn, but don't overly stress over all the technical aspects of oil painting, just focus on the work and get in there and paint and experiment and enjoy the creation. :)

[Aardvarkphil]

Thanks for the encouragement Verdaccio. I will bear in mind what you said and just jump in and enjoy. I also love learning about the technical aspects too. This just heightens the enjoyment for me. Just wish I had more time to devote to art. But work pays the bills and for art materials. Hopefully one day I will be able to afford my art the time it deserves. But until then I'll cram it in everywhere I can.

[Aardvarkphil]

Ok guys been trying to do a bit of oil painting. Well actually been producing a lot of browns. Doing a lot of scrapping off and starting again. Started a Sargent Master Copy (Lady Agnew). Just doing some studies of this at the moment, from some images I got from the web. Both of the images I have seem to have slightly different colours too. I'm trying to get hold of a large poster to work from. Which hopefully will have the right colour balance.

Anyway to the point. What I've realised is. I don't know enough about colour mixing to get to the colours I need. Sometimes it takes me 3 or 4 goes to find the right combination of colours. What would be the most effective way to layout and produce colour charts that will help, not only with this, but with any other paintings I do?

The palette I'm using for this Master copy is a double primary. Cad red, Aliz crimson, Cad yellow, Lemon Yellow, Ultramarine blue, Coerulium Blue, Phthalocyanine blue, Titanium white.

[Verdaccio]

Phil:

I have done studies of the Munsell system of color for artists. It is really helpful. I did a post on it a while ago for another site. I will dig it out and put it in a separate topic.

[Art_Addict]

Well you could do the charts as described by Richard Schmid.

But definitely use a palette that includes earths and viridian and some other
versatile colors on top of the ones you describe.
Then you should mix each color with every other color, letting one color per
chart predominating. And mix 5 values down with white.
So you would come up with 11 charts when you have 10 colors on your
palette. One chart with all tube colors mixed down with white. And 10 charts
with every other time one color predominating.

Hope this makes sense :)

[Aardvarkphil]

Verdaccio thanks for the Munsell thread you started. I'm checking him out on the web.

Art Addict as far as other colours go, the 2hour evening class i go to every week only wants us to use these colours to start with. So lets see if I got this right. With the colours I give above. One chart with 7 colours across the top (from tube). Then 5 rows under this getting lighter by adding white. Am I aiming for similar value steps from colour to colour across the sheet? Or is this just an 5 steps off one colour ending in almost white?
Sorry if this seems very elementary to you I have no real experience and am treading water in the deep end.

The for the next chart. Cad red then cad red mixed with each of the other colours with cad red dominating the mix. And again as above 5 rows underneath fading to white. Then repeat this for each colour


Might it also be useful to do some similar sheets for secondary mixes. Say Cad red +Cad yellow and mix with each other colouracross the top and 5 rows of fade to white below?

This is how far I've got with my first real oil a Sargent head study (Lady Agnew)
231541

[Craig D]

Phil
you're describing the charts accurately.
About doing sets with the third colour added, I think you don't have that many years :)
Seriously, that would get hugely complicated and use a tremendous amount of materials and time. The first set will give you several hundred colour mixes to choose from. More than enough to give you a start.
Once you've done some charts and a few more paintings you'll be able to adjust those mixes slightly as needed. Especially after you combine it with reading Verdaccios' article.

[Art_Addict]

:) yeah just start with the charts this way. Afterwards you can decide if you still have courage to go on.

It's important to do them meticulously and as accurate as possible, otherwise it's a waste of time.