Academy of Realist Art or Max the Mutt?

[Altercator]

Salam from Malaysia.

Within a few years time, I'm working to save money so that I can go to Toronto and learn art there.

I've boiled down to two choices: either Academy of Realist Art or Max the Mutt.

On one hand, money might be tight, and the best I might cough up within five years working here is at least CDN$15000, which is worth two years at the Academy of Realist Art. On the other hand, I really want to do animation & concept art, badly, and I wish to enroll into Max The Mutt.

So what's your advice? Which school I should go to? Best I can do so far is to work hard & save money for a few years.

Or is it possible to enroll into Academy of Realist Art and continue into Max the Mutt?

Meanwhile, can the people from either schools here please give their opinions, comments on the other, like what Maxine & the Mutts think of Academy of Realist Art and vice versa?

[StupidIsAsStupidDoes]

I'd advise against the Academy of Realist Art. At my old school, there was a guy who went there. He brought in a beautiful chiaroscuro rendering that looked perfectly realistic. But then we did some short poses in class, and he couldn't do a simple gesture drawing to save his life.

Also, their curriculum agenda seems rather shady (pardon the pun). Rather than learn from live models, they start by copying old master drawings, and then move onto plaster casts before they finally use real, living, breathing human beings. Seems like a run in the opposite direction of what's really important.

Max has a New Canadian scholarship for anyone who's been in the country for less than three years. But don't stop there; take a look at Sheridan, Seneca, OCAD, and George Brown (note: the last two don't teach animation, but I'm not sure how important that is to you).

Cheers!

[Storyboard Dave]

Also, their curriculum agenda seems rather shady (pardon the pun). Rather than learn from live models, they start by copying old master drawings, and then move onto plaster casts before they finally use real, living, breathing human beings. Seems like a run in the opposite direction of what's really important.

I really don't see anything wrong with this form of teaching for a basic foundation level. This was the way the Masters were taught back in the day as well. Just because one copies and old master doesn't cheapen the skills that an instructor wants a student to learn. One can learn quite a bit from copying a very valid piece. Drawing from plaster casts work wonderfully for what they're intended to do as well (when was the last time you saw a plaster cast flinch in a half hour pose?). And of course the ideal is drawing from a live model, but again for a basic foundation course I have no problem with this formula- it's been tried and true for a very long time.

[Altercator]

Max has a New Canadian scholarship for anyone who's been in the country for less than three years. But don't stop there; take a look at Sheridan, Seneca, OCAD, and George Brown (note: the last two don't teach animation, but I'm not sure how important that is to you).

Cheers!

Heard from Maxine that Max will come up with an international scholarship. While on the subject, how much is the tuition fee currently since their last website update? Is it still CDN$9200 for international students?

I thought of Sheridan & OCAD, and might look into Seneca & GB, but the tuition fees are astronomical. I thought Max or ARA might seemed affordable besides being the best there is.

Thanks for replying anyway, took you awhile.

[Maxine Schacker]

For concept art, the skill base taught at the Academy is valuable, and is actually part of our 4 year diploma program. However, it is not enough. Real understanding of form, the ability to draw from your imagination, and, if you want a broad based concept art skill base, an ability to work in other styles (including cartooning), are equally important.

If you want to be an animator, the situation is very different. Tap and ballet are both dance forms. Both involve body movement, a feeling for rhythm etc. but a great tap dancer may not be a great ballet dancer and vice-versa. The same holds true for the art forms we are discussing. I know great animators who can't paint and couldn't do a realist, highly rendered portrait...but...they understand gesture, anatomy, movement, acting, timing, facial expression, body language.

What is your goal? Concept Art or Animation? As far as tuition at Max the Mutt is concerned, when you are accepted you receive a contract for the whole diploma program. The government of Ontario protects you: we cannot raise your tuition while you are in the program, but YOU can withdraw at the end of any academic year with no penalty.

Our tuition varies slightly from diploma to diploma. As compared to any schools I'm aware of that offer an equivalent education, we are very affordable. For exact tuition, just contact Van Olson at 1-877-486-MUTT, or admissions@maxthemutt.com. He can tell you exact costs for each year of every diploma.

[Altercator]

I would want to go a full three or four years at Max The Mutt, but as long as I work in Malaysia, my final expenses will only last me one year learning at your school. I just thought the Academy might act as Plan B if anything else goes.
Last thing I want to think about is money, but how would I continue beyond Visual Arts Literacy when I lack them?
I'm thinking, once I'm at your school, I have to work my butt off, prove my worth to you & your school, hopefully fate, divine intervention or something, might enable me to continue further into your school. I'm willing to have my butt kicked by your teachers just to get the best from you.
If not, a year in VAL in your school should at least be worth it.

Thanks for your reply, Ms Schacker.

[Maxine Schacker]

You still haven't told me which diploma you want to apply for! Is it animation or concept art?

[Altercator]

Animation.

My apologies.

I still want to do animation, ever since I've left high school. Dropped out of so many local design colleges, that I almost lost interest, but talking to you, Ms Schacker, I'm feeling my love for animation is growing again. You've convinced me. It's all about motion, rhythm, gesture, life. From my deepest desire, I seek to revitalise 2D traditional animation, like I used to love in Saturday morning cartoons, anime & theatrical shorts that showed up on my local airwaves. I have a thousand stories with me that I need to let out, at the same time, to prove that 2D is not dead.

I want to go to your school to learn from the best. And with hope, I would bring the best that you've taught back into Malaysia.

Just one question needs to be asked: With my meagre expenses I'll collect within a few years that's only enough for VAL, will I be able to move onto the next two or three years in Max The Mutt, if I have worked my butt off, and proven my worth to you? If not, are there any alternatives? Like an apprenticeship in any top studios in Canada?

Thank you.

[Maxine Schacker]

Please email Van Olson at admisions@maxthemutt.com. Fill out a lead form on our website so that you will be in our database. These discussions need to be continued privately.

The VAL year is the first year of all diplomas and the government will no longer allow us to give a VAL certificate unless we claim that the VAL certificate leads to employment! Integrity is what we're about and we don't believe that year 1 by itself will lead to a career...therefore no certificate.

When Van receives your email, we'll discuss your situation and write back to you. I think that's our best course of action for now. Meanwhile, draw!

[Dan_Grr]

I think you should really study your options well, instead of just being "convinced" through a couple of posts.

[Maxine Schacker]

Excellent advice! Also, look more deeply into the requirements for the career you want. As I've already said, there's a big difference between the skills needed by concept artists for video games and the skills needed by animators.

Dan, I would never try to "convince" anyone, but I will share what I know about the skills needed in different fields. We encourage all applicants to look deeply into our program, and every other program they are planning to apply to. We need students who know what we're about and want what we offer. We definitely are not the right choice for everyone, nor is every potential applicant right for us.

In this case, I've been approached by Altercator (see the Max the Mutt thread). He tells me he'll never have the money to attend more than one year at Max the Mutt and wants scholarship assistance.

He wants to know if his money will be well spent studying high realist drawing and painting at the Academy of realist Art in Toronto. He thinks he could afford two years there. My answer: yes if you are heading for concept art, no if you want to animate.


If you see anything here that is inappropriate, please feel free to let me know.

[Dan_Grr]

I'm not saying that you did, but I know that many people follow often unwise decisions based on impulse, from their own set of ideals and from other people. It can only help to study your options into more depth and come to your own conclusion.

Leaving the country to go abroad with your savings is a big move. This is your money, and your life. Be sure that that's what you want to do.

[Maxine Schacker]

I agree completely. Schools are living organisms - they change. Always ask questions, visit if possible, ask to see student and graduate work. Request contact with current students and graduates.

Also, be sure you know what the requirements are for entry level jobs in your area of interest. Check curriculum to be sure you are getting the courses you need!

[Altercator]

I wish I can sincerely, really tell you that I'm not acting out of impulse.

But, I really want to do animation. And I want to be in your school. It's been within me ever since I left high school and thinking up all kinds of stories I can make. There has been ebbs & flows in my decisions after I dropped out of many local colleges here, but my decision still stands.

I want to do animation.

The thing about attending the Academy is really about time & money. I'm a few years closer to 30 and as of now just started working. The Academy is just a back-up plan. I thought like if I can't earn enough to go through all those many years in Max The Mutt, there's always the Academy as Plan B.

Money aside, what about age? A certain veteran animator once said that you won't or can't learn drawing once you're past 24. Something about mind stagnating or something.
How many old guys & gals out there past 30 just started learning in Max the Mutt? Can't old guys have the same fighting chance to learn drawing & animation like everybody else? Your fellow Canadian, Hal Foster, creator of Prince Valiant, started learning art at almost 30. Can't anybody else?

My sincerest apologies if this has turned emotional. At least a thank you to Maxine & the rest for giving podium. Best I can do now is to start practising while working.

Meanwhile, is possible for me to correspond with your student & teachers, just so I can find out more about what's going in Max the Mutt & what to expect?

[Maxine Schacker]

You need to get in touch with Van Olson. I've already given you his contact info.Also, as I've said before, fill out the request for information form on our website.

If you want this so much, I take it for granted that you are already drawing every day and trying to get more books that will help you. If you aren't drawing every day, really question the depth of your desire. Do you have the major books on animation? Have you tried to make flip books?

Have you really read my posts carefully? I've given you as much information as I can, and you don't seem to understand what I'm saying...so- for the very last time, the skill base you need is different for animation than it is for concept art. Doing sustained studies of casts and learning to produce high realism is great for concept art, but for animation you need emphasis on movement, comprehension of form, and the ability to rotate a figure as well as draw from your imagination. You will not need to be able to paint in this super realistic fashion, although understanding fundamentals, color theory and background painting are good skills. The Academy of Realist Art will teach you things, but you won't get a job as an animator when you finish.

Read my posts!

[Dan_Grr]

That 24 years old saying is rubbish. I'm older than that and I have improved over the last year, when I resumed an interregnum of 7 years in drawing.

You can improve almost any intellectual skill that you want at pratically any age, except if you have any degenerative disease (like Alzheimer).

Glenn Vilppu was a painter in his 30-40s when he started giving drawing classes to animators in Walt Disney, and from then on he has also improved.

The thing about age is, and this will depend from company to company and from person to person, but from experience I can tell you that, at least in the design and advertising field, younger people are preferred, because many times creativity is a synonym of youth. I would suspect this could be the same in animation and concept art.

[xxEnder]

yeah, i agree with dan about the 24 being rubbish, im only 20 so i dont know how valid my opinion is on it, but as long as youre making an active effort to improve, and youre improving in a smart way (studying is mostly just doing, but you gotta be walking in the right direction if that makes sense) then it doesnt matter what age you are. same with health, physical activity will keep you vigorous, mental activity (art) is the same way.

[Jason Manley]

shady? don't listen to this guy. that is the same way art has been taught for hundreds of years...if it is good enough for the old masters, its good enough for art students nowadays.


I'd advise against the Academy of Realist Art. At my old school, there was a guy who went there. He brought in a beautiful chiaroscuro rendering that looked perfectly realistic. But then we did some short poses in class, and he couldn't do a simple gesture drawing to save his life.

Also, their curriculum agenda seems rather shady (pardon the pun). Rather than learn from live models, they start by copying old master drawings, and then move onto plaster casts before they finally use real, living, breathing human beings. Seems like a run in the opposite direction of what's really important.

Max has a New Canadian scholarship for anyone who's been in the country for less than three years. But don't stop there; take a look at Sheridan, Seneca, OCAD, and George Brown (note: the last two don't teach animation, but I'm not sure how important that is to you).

Cheers!

[peter_john]

Hey Altercator, I just got back from a visit to ARA this past Saturday and the school seems both impressive and flexible. The curriculum goes through a few stages, beginning at copies of Bargues drawings to cast drawing and painting, to still life painting. While the curriculum and advancement requirements are centered on the master copies/casts/still lifes they do have regular and frequent figure drawing sessions. I think an average day may consist of studio time, figure study, and then more studio time.

They have flexible scheduling options and tuition scales too. You should contact them if you're considering attending there seriously and maybe even go visit. IT might be tough visiting if you're coming from Malaysia but I think I would have a time committing to a school if I didn't see it in person first. They have a number of international students too so they might be able to give you some advice in that regard.

Good luck!

[RogerAdams]

Hi Altercator,

I can't help you decide but if you want a taste of what ARA is like I would recommend getting their figure drawing dvd (http://www.academyofrealistart.com/learntodrawvideo.asp). It goes over materials, gestural construct, comparative measurement, rendering - lots of advanced techniques and instruction. The production values are very high on the dvd and it's worth the price. Good luck with your decision!

Roger