Mentoring in Animal Anatomy and Creature Design -- Muscles, Part One [Archive]

Moai

October 12th, 2007, 03:35 PM

Hello, mentees! Welcome to the first lesson. Again, I'm sorry for the delay.

This first lesson will focus on the skeleton, and the general bones, forms, and structures thereof. The skeleton I will show you isn't the skeleton of any particular species (though it does look somewhat like a dog), but is instead simply a generic skeleton meant to show you the typical bones and forms that are found in most skeletons. Also, since this class will be starting with larger, four-legged land mammals and gradually move on to less "ordinary" animals, this generic skeleton will have more in common with those kinds of animals than, say, the skeleton of a dolphin or an iguana.

So here it is: the generic skeleton.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-whole.jpg

Skeleton key:
1- Skull, consisting of cranium (head) and mandible (moveable lower jaw)
2- Cervical (neck) Vertebrae
3- Thoracic Vertebrae
4- Lumbar Vertebrae
5- Sacrum
6- Tail (Coccyx)
7- Scapula (shoulder blade)
8- Humerus
9- Radius
10- Ulna
11- Carpus (wrist)
12- Metacarpals
13- Phalanges (fingers) of forelimb
14- Ribcage
15- Pelvis (hipbone)
16- Femur
17- Patella (kneecap)
18- Tibia (shinbone)
19- Fibula
20- Calcaneus (heel bone)
21- Tarsus (ankle)
22- Metatarsals
23- Phalanges (toes) of hind limb

The generic skull.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-skull.jpg http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-skull-back.jpg

The skull usually contains the brain, most of the sense organs, the eating apparatus, and the breathing apparatus, so it is obviously a very important part of the body.
Skull key:
1. Cranium- This is the main portion of the skull. It consists of many bones, but they are all fused together into a single piece, with none really capable of independent movement. Therefore, it isn't really important to know any of the individual bones. All of the following items, except for the last two, are part of the cranium only.
2. Nasal Opening- This is the "nose hole." Its shape varies considerably from species to species. In most mammals, a large piece of cartilage extends from the nasal opening, forming the snout of an animal. A general rule that I've noticed is that the larger an animal's snout is, the higher up the nasal cavity is on the skull. On short-snouted felines, the nasal opening is right there near the front of the skull, but on animals like tapirs, the nasal opening is significantly higher up on the skull. On the very long-nosed elephants, the nasal opening is higher up on the skull than the eye sockets.
3. Forehead- A flattish region generally behind the snout and between and/or behind the eyes. Its shape and size varies considerably.
4. Brain case- This forms the rear part of the skull. Obviously, it houses the brain, and equally obviously, in intelligent species such as apes it is much larger and rounder than in other animals.
5. Ridge- Many species have a ridge along the top of the brain case. This is where the temporalis muscles attach. It's prominence varies quite a bit; in lions and gorillas, the ridge is quite noticeable on the skull, but in humans it is practically nonexistent.
6. Bumps- These are lumps of bone on the rear underside of the skull. They include the auditory process, which is often just a simple hole in the skull directly to the rear of the zygomatic arch; the mastoid process, which is a round bump whose position and size varies; the styloid process, which are two wing-like points near the back of the skull; and finally, the condyles, where the skull interfaces with the spine.
7. Zygomatic arch- This form, also called the cheekbone, is one of the most important and form-defining on the skull, though its importance is less in some species than others. It tends to be thick, arched, and strong on carnivores (to support the powerful biting muscles), while weaker on herbivores, because chewing on vegetation requires less force than chomping through tough muscles and bones. Animals that have prominent zygomatic arches include felines and primates.
8. Eye socket- It should be obvious, but I'll tell you anyway. This is where the eyeballs are held. Its primary function is to protect the eyes and make sure that they are facing the right way. The eye socket is not always completely surrounded by bone. In carnivores and in large animals such as rhinos and elephants, it is only partially enclosed.
9. Unimporant hole- Most skulls have this little hole somewhere around the upper jaw. I think it's for a nerve or a blood vessel or something. However, it has no influence on the visible form on the animal, so you needn't bother wasting brain space on it. In fact, I don't even know why I included it.
10. Mandible- This is the second piece of the skull. It is shaped somewhat like a horseshoe with the ends bent upwards. The upper-back points of it go between the zygomatic arch and the brain case. Its hinge is located near where the zygomatic arch connects to the rear part of the skull (look at the back view image). The mandible is divided into two bones, a left half and a right half, but these are often fused together in mammals. It is quite a mobile bone, not only opening and shutting but in many species able to move back and forth and from side to side. Its primary function, obviously, is to aid in taking food into the body, and often to "process" (you know, chew) food to make it easier to digest. It does this job very well, which is why practically every large animal you see is a jawed animal (evolutionary advantage).
11. Teeth- These are located on the upper jaw (the maxilla), and on the lower jaw. They are probably the hardest objects in the bodies of most animals, even harder than bone. They are composed of several layers of different stuff, but that's not really important to know when it comes to drawing animals. Teeth can be divided into three basic types. The frontmost teeth are the incisors. They are used mostly for gnawing (rodents) and for clipping off vegetation (herbivores of all types). They occasionally grow into very large tusks, as in elephants and narwhals. The second type of teeth is the canine tooth. In carnivores, it is large and powerful and used to stab and hold prey, and is one of the most common killing tools in the animal world. In herbivores, it is used either for display and defense (as in pigs and hippos), or absent. The third kind of tooth is the molar, which are the rearmost teeth. In herbivores and omnivores, including apes and bears, the molars are flat, square, and numerous, for grinding food. In carnivores, the molars have evolved into sharp carnassial teeth, which slice meat in a scissor-like fashion.

The generic front limb.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-arm.jpg

Front limb key:
1. The scapula- Also known as the shoulder blade, it is one of the more important bones in the body when it comes to form. It is a fairly flat bone that "floats" near the front of the ribcage, held in place more by muscle attachments than by bone attachments. Therefore, it is a very mobile bone. It consists of four main parts. There is the spine, which runs down the middle of the scapula, and is an important landmark. Above and below the spine are two flat regions where muscles attach. The fourth part of the scapula is the joint, which forms a ball-in-socket joint with the humerus.
2. Humerus- This is the single bone of the upper arm. It is a fairly simple bone. At the top, it forms a ball-in-socket joint with the scapula that allows it considerable freedom of movement (more so in some species than others), and at the bottom it forms a hinge joint with the ulna. The length and bulkiness of this bone varies according to species.
3. Ulna- This is one of the two lower forelimb bones. At its upper part it forms a hinge joint with the humerus, which means that the humerus can only flex and extend. That is, it can only bend forward, closer to the body, or backward, extending away from the body. It cannot turn or rotate in any other direction. The uppermost point of this bone forms an important landmark.
4. Radius- This is the other lower forelimb bone. It is thinner near the elbow joint and thicker near the wrist joint. It is a rotating bone, allowing the front foot (or hand, in primates) to twist backwards or forwards. When the two forelimb bones are parallel, the palm of the hand is facing forward, and when the radius is crossed over the ulna, the palm of the hand is facing backward. This movement is much more important for animals such as primates or felines, which need to climb and hold onto things with their front feet. For some animals, such as horses, being able to twist the front foot is not important, so the radius and ulna have fused together.
5. the Carpal complex- The wrist joint is composed of many small bones, but it is only important to know one of them: the pisiform bone . The pisiform bone juts out on the back of the wrist. On carnivores, there is a little pad of flesh that looks almost like a sixth toe that forms over the pisiform bone. If you have a dog or cat, go check this out. The rest of the carpal bones can be summarized as a single form. As a joint, the wrist can usually move back and forth, and side to side, but not rotate. Any rotation that occurs happens with the radius.
6. Metacarpals- These are the hand bones. There is usually one for each phallanx, or finger/toe. They are attached to the carpal bones and fairly immovable, with the exception of the innermost one (the "thumb") which can often has a bit more freedom of movement, especially in primates. In many herbivorous species, the metacarpals are long, thick, and fused, becoming in essence a third segment of the leg, rather than part of the foot. Each metacarpal ends with a hinge joint with one of the phalanges.
7. Phalanges- These are the finger and toe bones. Usually, there are three of them in each of the outer four fingers or toes, and two on the innermost finger or two. Often the last bone in each phalanx forms the core of a claw or hoof. Every joint in the phalanges is a hinge joint; phalanges can curl in or extend out, and nothing else.

I have some chores to do now. I'll update this post later. For know, just send me your email addresses, if you don't mind, so I can send you some images to study.

Continuing onward, now with the spine and ribcage.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-spine-and-.jpg

The spine and ribcage, like all bones, have three functions: to provide structural support, to protect organs, and to provide a place for muscles to attach. The ribcage houses many of the most important organs of the body (the heart and lungs), while the spine houses the spinal cord, which transmits messages from the brain to the rest of the body. Knowing the exact shape and number of each of these bones is of limited importance. It is the big picture that you're after.
1. The atlas vertebra, so named because it supports the globe of the head (though the head is globe-like in few animals other than humans). It is quite different from most other vertebrae, in that it is basically a ring of bone with no body or spinous process (the part of the spine that juts outward, taken to the extreme in animals like Dimetrodon and Spinosaurus). Together with the axis vertebra, it forms the joint which allows the head to be so mobile.
2. Axis vertebra- This is more similar to a "regular" vertebra, except that it has a knob, called the odontoid process, on the front. This is what the atlas pivots on when moving the head. In many animals, the spinous process on the atlas vertebra has been modified into a fairly large fin of bone, onto which muscles attach.
3. Cervical vertebrae- The vertebrae of the neck. The atlas and axis are included here. In mammals, there are almost always seven of these, regardless of the length of the neck. In quadrupedal animals, the cervical vertebrae are often rounded or boxy, without prominent knobs or spines jutting from the top or sides.
4. Thoracic vertebrae- These are the vertebrae to which the ribs attach. The bodies of these vertebrae are usually smaller and the spinous processes higher, in comparison to other vertebrae.
5. Lumbar vertebrae- These are the vertebrae between the ribcage and the pelvis. They are often bulkier than other vertebrae, with squarish spinous processes, and broad transverse processes (the projections that emerge from the side of the vertebrae).
6. Sacrum- The sacrum consists of several vertebrae fused into a single bone. This is where the pelvic bones and several muscles attach.
7. Tail- The first few vertebrae of the tail are actually firmly within the bulk of the body, and look more like regular vertebrae. As the tail tapers towards the end, however, the bones become smaller, longer, and more featureless.
8. True Rib- These emerge from the thoracic vertebrae and form the ribcage. It is called true because (via some cartilage) it attaches to the sternum. They are long, thin, curved bones.
9. Rib Cartilage- These attach ribs either to the sternum or to other ribs.
10. Sternum- Also known as the breastbone, this is where the ribs join together on the front (or bottom, in quadrupeds) of the ribcage. It also serves as a place for muscles to attach.
11. False Ribs- Rather than attaching to the sternum, these ribs attach to the ribs before them.
12. Floating rib- These ribs don't attach to anything at all, except vertebrae. Many animals don't have them.

And here's the compared lines of the spine of a human being and of a quadruped animal. The curve of the human spine has been modified significantly to support our more upright stance.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/spine-shape.jpg

Here are some images from wikipedia of individual (human) vertebrae.
The atlas.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/atlasfromwikipedia.png
The axis. Notice the large knob on top, on which the atlas pivots.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/axisfromwikipedia.png
Two views of a general cervical vertebra.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/Cervicalfromwikipedia.png http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/cervicalsidefromwikipedia.png
Several thoracic vertebrae. Not the holes on the side for the attachment of the ribs.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/thoracicvertebraefromwikipedia.png
A lumbar vertebra.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/lumbarfromwikipedia.png

Continuing onward now with the pelvis.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-pelvis.jpg

The pelvis is, in my opinion, the most difficult area of animal anatomy, both bony and muscular. The pelvis is a very unusual, complex shape, with many forms, ridges, bumps, and holes curving around each other, and it looks completely different from every angle. It is necessary to learn it well, though, since it is an extremely important part of the skeleton, and significantly influences the visible form of most land vertebrates.
1. Sacrum- The sacrum can be considered part of the pelvis as well as part of the spine. Rare is the drawing of a pelvis without the sacrum. This is the only place where the pelvis attaches to the rest of the body.
2. Ilium- This is a large, flat, wing-like piece of bone at the front of the pelvis. An important attachment point for the gluteus muscles, its size, shape, and angle varies considerably from species to species. It also protrudes under the skin and is a very important landmark on the body. Why is it named after the city of Troy? I have no idea.
3. Ischium- The rear part of the pelvis. It consists of two tuberosities (projecting bumps or ridges) with an arch between them. The tuberosities are landmarks on the body. In herbivores, the ischium is usually quite a bit narrower than the ilium. In carnivores, the ilium and ischium are often more or less equal in bredth.
4. Ischial arch- The bony curve between the two projecting tuberosities.
5. The cotyloid cavity- This is the socket for the hip joint, where the femur attaches to the hip.
6. Hole- These two holes are present in almost every pelvis. I do not know what they are called. Probably not terribly important.

Specific pelvis studies: a horse and a dog.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/specific-pelvises.jpg

The pelvis is a difficult structure to simplify and generalize, so I decided to post these two studies I did of a herbivore (horse) pelvis and a carnivore (dog) pelvis. These are much more specific than the previous diagram. The studies are from W. Frank Calderon's Animal Painting and Anatomy.
1. Sacrum.
2. Ilium.
3. Pubis- Together with the ilium, ischium, and sacrum, these form the four major parts of the pelvis. The pubis is the lowermost and innermost part of the pelvis, where the left and right hipbones come together.
4. Ischial arch.
5. Ischial tuberosity- A projecting knob or ridge on the rear end of the pelvis. Its shape varies.
6. Cotyloid cavity.
7. Supra cotyloid crest- A ridge of bone above the cotyloid cavity (supra means "above"). In the dog, it is pretty much continuous with the crest of the ilium.
8 and 9- The crest of the ilium. I was going to give them specific names (tuber coxae and tuber sacrale) but it turns out that I labeled them wrong, and it's not important anyway.

I suggest that you do multiple studies of the pelvis from several angles. I'll post some animal anatomy book reviews to help you.

Jacob Kobryn

October 12th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Can I PLEASE join in on this. I've been doing TONS of creatures for the 100th cow so this would really help!
Jake

Justin.

October 12th, 2007, 08:14 PM

My name @ gmail.com

Jake

If you can't do my assignments this month, taking on another mentor really isn't a good idea.

Moai

October 12th, 2007, 08:59 PM

Jake, there's nothing stopping you from reading what is written in this thread and learning from it. However, I'm not taking any more mentees. That means no artwork-posting in this thread, please. Sorry, man.:[
Justin, prepare for an onslaught of animal anatomy scans!:needle:

Mike Corriero

October 12th, 2007, 11:49 PM

Most "Imaginary" creature designing even the oddest and most unique derive from anatomy of some sort whether it be human or animal..in the end it's a mix and match combination of the two and an understanding of how the bones, joints, muscles and overall biology of a being or creature works that counts. Starting with basic animal anatomy such as a quadruped mammal will teach you about how a real animals system works in order to achieve a believable "imaginary" animal/creature.

I myself could use a brush up and some help on a bone for bone break down of existing animals to further help my understanding of concept design in this area..we all could. So make sure you guys really read up on what was posted and even do your own research on these areas. Animal biology is complex, the skeletal system is complex enough in its own right let alone the muscles, nervous system and huge array of variation in anatomical structure from one animal to the next. Just think of it in terms as a huge library and source reference, something you should soak in for later on.

Moai, unless the images you're sending are confidential or work you've done..perhaps you should post links here to keep on hand. Assuming they are photos and not artwork. A list of photo links could be useful.

Jacob Kobryn

October 13th, 2007, 01:19 AM

My name @ gmail.com

Jake

If you can't do my assignments this month, taking on another mentor really isn't a good idea.

You're right I just thought that because I'm in the process of so many creatures that this would be really helpful and it is!
Put me on the list for next round!
Jake

Moai

October 13th, 2007, 01:34 AM

I updated my earlier post with the spine and ribcage. The pelvis and hind limb will have to wait until tomorrow. I may also update my segment on the head, thanks to some info from a new animal anatomy book that I checked out from the library. See? The learning never stops!
Mike Corriero, I agree 100% with what you said. By all means, students, do research on your own! There is a wealth of information in the libraries and on the internets. As for the images I'm emailing, they are copyrighted illustrations from animal anatomy books, so posting them where just anyone can see them wouldn't be good. Maybe emailing them wouldn't be a very good idea, either. I'll put up some animal anatomy book reviews tomorrow, so the mentees will be able to go and do some studying themselves.
Jake Cobrin- Next round! You're on the list!:teeth:

See you guys tomorrow.

Jacob Kobryn

October 13th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Jake Kobrin- Next round! You're on the list!:teeth:

Sweet!

Moai

October 14th, 2007, 12:18 AM

ASSIGNMENT: Get an animal anatomy book and do some studies of skeletons! Make sure it is about animal anatomy, not "how to draw animals." There is a difference. Please stick to bones and skeletons. Muscles will wait, for now.

Here are some books to point you in the right direction. Probably any library you go to will have at least one of these. Most of these books focus on the horse, dog, lion, and cow far more than any other type of animal. That is good enough for us now, but when you want to learn about other types of animals it can get annoying.

Gottfried Bammes, The Artist's Guide to Animal Anatomy. This is a very good book. The illustrations are clean, clear, and simple. Bammes is a master at seeing and depicting planes. He treats animal structure like an engineer, and has some very useful information if you bother to read the text as well as look at the pictures. Cons: A bit of horse worship going on here. The section on the hind leg is almost exclusively about the horse. Other sections, though, give the other animals a more fair treatment.
W. Ellennberger and Dittrich H. Baum, An Atlas of Animal Anatomy- The illustrations here are exhaustive and extremely detailed, to a fault. This book can be somewhat overwhelming, because the anatomical plates are not simplified or artistified in the least. You will have to do your own simplifying when studying these images, which can be very difficult if you're just beginning to learn about animal anatomy. Also, there is no text except to name the bones and muscles. A very good reference book, but not really a how-to for beginners. Worth checking out, anyway.
Yvonne Francoise Jossic, Anatomy of Animals- The same illustrations as the previous book, only smaller and not labeled (WTF??).
W. Frank Calderon, Animal Painting and Anatomy- An older but still very good book. The illustrations are very nice, clear little pencil drawings. The way he draws the bones has a way of clarifying things for me more than other books do. I highly recommend this one, if you can get it.
Eliot Goldfinger, Animal Anatomy for Artists: The Elements of Form- This is an excellent book, though I'd recommend it more for learning muscle anatomy than skeletal anatomy. It should be adequate, though. It is probably the most complete animal anatomy book out there, at least when it comes to musculature. Highly recommended.

That's all I have. If you can't find these books but the library or bookstore has other books, assess the quality of the book before getting it. Are the illustrations good, or amateurish? Are things drawn many times, from many angles, or just once? In short, I recommend getting only good, complete books, if at all possible. If, for some reason, you can't get your hands on a book, message me and I will email you some images. These images are scanned from some of the above books and probably copyrighted, so I want to send them out only as a last resort.
So, grab some books, do some studies, and post what you draw, and the critiquing will commence!

Mike Corriero, feel free to add some more books, if you have any to recommend.

Oh yeah, about searching for references to study on the internet: I find that any images I can find on the internet are of a much lower quality than those in books. If you can find good, clear images, though, by all means do some studies!

And a little link to see what you'll be able to do with the knowledge you're getting: Imaginatomy (http://www.reybustos.com/07i/i.html).

EDIT: Also, visit any history or natural history museums in your area, if you can. They often have a few good skeletons for you to study. The local museum in my hometown of Santa Maria, for example, has a Smilodon (saber-toothed tiger) skeleton. Real skeletons are obviously much more informative study subjects than flat images.

Mike Corriero

October 14th, 2007, 10:25 AM

Moai- Concerning bone structures..not off hand but that's a great inspirational little gem of a link you found there (Imaginatomy). Later on when you get involved in the skin/muscle and actual structure and variations of animals I have a book I can recommend that is a great resource for photo reference mixed with a little Illustration.

If I come across anything bone related, book or web-link (high res) I'll post it.

Mike C -

Jacob Kobryn

October 14th, 2007, 02:37 PM

I have a huge book called The Encyclopedia of Mammals. Do you know if this is good for mammal anatomy?

Caskin

October 14th, 2007, 03:54 PM

Another good anatomy book is Cyclopedia Anatomicae which has great references for not only animal, but human anatomy as well. Overall a really good book. They have a nice comparitive anatomy section in the back where they show side by side all the different animals they covered (dog, horse, cat, pig, monkey, camel, deer, sheep, bear, lion, etc)

A nifty site for anatomy is www.digimorph.org which has 3D rotations of many skulls, and probably the only place I've been able to find with good references to bat skeletons. I also greatly enjoy browsing www.skullsunlimited.com and looking at all the skulls they have available. If I had spare cash I would DEFINITELY shell out for a couple of their natural bone or museum replica skulls (homg. bones. drool).

Hope you don't mind me popping Maoi, just thought these would be some good additions to the list of references you gave :).

Moai

October 14th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Jake- I used to have that book! Big sucker, isn't it? I was a fool to get rid of it. Anyway, I don't remember how good it was in terms of skeletons and muscles, but it should have some great images of the outer forms and behavior of animals.
Caskin- Awesome links! When I become an eccentric billionaire, I'm going to buy my own Mastodon skeleton.:needle: I don't mind you dropping by at all. The book you recommended certainly sounds good. My bastard local library system doesn't have it though.:[

Anyway, I'm going to update my lesson one post with the final images and info. Lesson two will come once you guys start posting your studies.

Moai

October 14th, 2007, 10:44 PM

My first post was too long, so I'm posting the final bit of it here.

The hind leg.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20skeleton/generic-skeleton-leg.jpg

In many ways, the hind leg is a mirror image of the front leg. It has a single upper bone, two lower bones, and hand and finger bones in a virtually identical arrangement to the foreleg.
1. Femur- This is the thighbone. It is a long, strong bone, with a few features worthy of more specific mention. Its lowest region forms part of the knee joint.
2. Great Trochanter- This is a large protuberance at the top of the shaft of the femur. It is sometimes a landmark on the body, though it is often hard to see, and is an attachment point for many pelvic muscles.
3. Femur Head- This very round lump of bone fits into the cotyloid cavity in the hip. It forms the ball in the ball-in-socket joint of the hip.
4. Condyles- Condyles are rounded projections that occur on many bones, functioning the in the articulation of joints (especially hinge joints). The condyles of the femur are particularly large and noticeable, so I thought I'd mention them.
5. Patella- Commonly called the kneecap, this is a large and important sesamoid bone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesamoid_bone). It increases the ability of muscles and tendons on the upper leg to act on the lower leg. The knee keeps tendons (the tissues that connect muscle to bone) from flattening onto the leg bones when the knee joint is flexed.
6. Tibia- This is the main lower leg bone. Also called the shin bone. In many animals, pretty much the entire front edge is subcutaneous; that is, almost directly under the skin. Its upper part forms part of the knee joint.
7. Crest of the tibia- Though the entire front of the tibia is subcutaneous, as I just said, the crest of the tibia is especially noticeable, and functions as a landmark. The crest of the tibia often juts out just as far and just as noticeably as the patella, making the "knee" to appear very long on some animals.
8. Fibula- The other lower leg bone, the fibula is very slender, and doesn't support weight, at least in humans. In many animals, such as herbivores, it has fused with the tibia. Its lower end makes a protruding bump on the ankle.
9. Calcaneus- This is the only one of the tarsal bones worth knowing. Forming the heel bone on humans, it protrudes quite a bit on most quadrupeds, making it an important landmark and something to be sure to note when drawing.
10. Tarsus- Basically, the same exact thing as the carpal bones in the front foot. Several odd little bones bunched together in the ankle joint. I don't see any reason to learn them individually.
11. Metatarsals- The long bones that form the body of the back foot. They are analogous to the metacarpals. There is usually one for each toe. Herbivores like cows are and exception; they have one thick metatarsal onto which all the toes attach. Luckily, they only have two toes.
12. Phalanges- Little different from the phalanges of the front foot. Some animals, such as cats and dogs, have fewer toes on the back feet than on the front feet.

And there you have it! A very general, basic summary of the land mammal skeleton. Once we start learning specific animals, I will detail how each differs from this generic skeleton.
Now, go study!!

Jacob Kobryn

October 15th, 2007, 12:31 AM

I'm not your mentoree oficially but I'm still following along and completing the assignments. I bought Eliot Goldfinger, Animal Anatomy for Artists: The Elements of Form and it friggin rocks. A mad rush to borders before they close and 50 bucks from my wallet... well worth it.

Justin.

October 15th, 2007, 02:37 AM

Which one of those would you see is the least expensive? Not to be a cheapo but I'm an intern on my own here =P

Moai

October 15th, 2007, 11:27 AM

Jake- Awesome, dude! Great book, huh? Rock on!
Justin- Here are the prices on amazon. There are always libraries too, you know.

Gottfried Bammes, The Artist's Guide to Animal Anatomy. (http://www.amazon.com/Artists-Guide-Animal-Anatomy/dp/0486436403/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/104-7333908-2470338?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192461407&sr=8-3) $15.65 new.
W. Ellennberger and Dittrich H. Baum, An Atlas of Animal Anatomy. (http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Animal-Anatomy-Artists/dp/0486200825/ref=pd_sim_b_2_img/104-7333908-2470338) $11.01 new. That one cent is very important.
Yvonne Francoise Jossic, Anatomy of Animals (http://www.amazon.com/ANATOMY-ANIMALS-Yvonne-Francoise-Jossic/dp/B000PJG1OK/ref=sr_1_1/104-7333908-2470338?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192461727&sr=1-1). $18.00 used. More expensive and less complete than Ellenberger's book. Don't bother.
W. Frank Calderon, Animal Painting and Anatomy (http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Painting-Anatomy-Instruction-Reference/dp/0486225232/ref=sr_1_1/104-7333908-2470338?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192461884&sr=1-1). $12.44 new.
Eliot Goldfinger, Animal Anatomy for Artists: The Elements of Form. $31.50 new. The most expensive book, but very good, as Jake found out.
Gyorgy Feher, Cyclopedia Anatomicae (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1884822878/ref=pd_luc_mri/104-7333908-2470338?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance). $15.87 new.

And here's another page of book reviews that I found, to help make your decision. Link (http://www.marshallart.com/seminars/resources/animal/index.html).

Jacob Kobryn

October 15th, 2007, 08:24 PM

31.50? I should have bought it off amazon...

Moai

October 18th, 2007, 06:52 PM

How are those studies coming? Does anyone need me to email them some images?

Justin.

October 19th, 2007, 01:49 AM

I'm gone during library open hours except on weekends, so either send me some images pls or wait and see if I get out tomorrow :D

(send me some please)

realitychek

October 19th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Alrighty, image dump! Worked mostly on the horse, getting into the dog now, so here's what I have so far

Overall skeleton, did a couple of leg studies on the side
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/Horseoverallstudy.jpg

More leg studies...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/Horselegstudies.jpg

Front and back of horse skeleton...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/horsefrontandbackstudy.jpg

Resting horse...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/horserestingstudy.jpg

Trotting horse (and skull)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/horsetrottingstudy.jpg

and overall dog skeleton
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/dogstudy.jpg

MonkeYoakum

October 20th, 2007, 01:09 PM

Just wanting to say very useful thread and Im following along at home. Thanks for the basics, I know thats what I need to focus on before trying to be awesome like so many on here.

Moai

October 21st, 2007, 01:48 AM

I updated my bone lesson, everyone! Check the post on page one. It's not a big update, but I found that I had given you some misinformation concerning the processes on the back of the skull. So, I've updated the skull text a tiny bit, and added a back view to illustrate those changes. Just FYI.:rendered:

realitychek- Awesome! Very good, dude. What book are you drawing from (I'm guessing Ellenberger). I'm glad to see that you're drawing both a herbivore and a predator, since the anatomies of the two are somewhat different. I'd suggest that you also do some studies of a cow or a lion (the other two animals that these books like so much). The reason is that horses and dogs are both tall running animals, while cows and lions are longer, lower animals less adapted for prolonged speed.
Okay, image-by-image critique:
1st image: Very good. You included pretty much all the parts. I'd suggest separating the sacrum from the rest of the spine, though, since it's a rather distinct part.
2nd image: Good studies. I like that you're analyzing the way the joints move. Study the scapula a bit more, though. It seems like you drew it from your mind and not from reference for these images, and it shows. Try reducing it into just a few essential shapes and features (a ridge, a flat area above the ridge, a flat area below it, and a knob where the femur attaches to it) so that you can internalize it. The scapula is a very important form when drawing the torso for any mammal, so it is important that you know it well.
3rd image: It looks like everything's there that should be there. Good.
4th and 5th images: I like that you're doing some skeletons in more expressive poses. This will aid you later when you try to give your creatures some personality. All the bones are there, but again, the scapula needs more study. The skull does as well. In particular, you are neglecting the zygomatic arch. You have it too small and thin in image 5, and not at all in image 4. This is a very important bone in the skull. Study the skull some more, and try to really look at it, and try to get the proportions between every little thing as accurately as possible.
6th image: Very good dog skeleton. The only real problem that I see is that the neck is a bit too birdlike.
Some general crits: Your drawing technique is focused more on outlines right now, but it's essential that you learn to draw three-dimensional shapes, not lines. Don't draw with such heavy lines, and sketch in the shapes very lightly before going in with your final lines. I'll make some images of the bones reduced to very simple shapes to help you with this. Also, try labeling the bones in some of your studies, just to solidify the knowledge in your mind.
All in all, good studies. There are just a few areas and techniques that you need to work on.

MonkeYoakum- Thanks! That's good to hear.

realitychek

October 21st, 2007, 09:33 AM

Ok, I'll definitely work on those areas a bit more and post more later.
I started off with on most of the studies of the horse with the Ellenberger book since my mom had that one, but I just got Eliot Goldfinger's book from the library, so I'm using that one a bit too

Gloominati

October 22nd, 2007, 03:43 AM

hey guys, my internet-connection problem will be solved by thrusday, 25th. the Pcs in school do not even have usb connection, so there is no sensible possibility to post my studys, which are coming along nicely by the way :D. gonna post ALL the stuff on thrusday

Moai

October 22nd, 2007, 11:33 AM

Great! Glad everyone's studies are going nicely.:rendered:
I'm probably going to do the muscle anatomy lesson sometime early next month. Once we're done with that (it'll take a while), I'll go into basic form and construction, and then we'll actually start going in depth on some animals. Just to give you guys an idea of what the future will bring.

EbonStripedMystery

October 22nd, 2007, 04:51 PM

Hi!

I just wanted to say thank you for all the wonderful resources you're offering here! I'm following along with this thread and love it so far! I registered here at CA just for it! If you'll offer this again, where do I sign up?

MonkeYoakum

October 24th, 2007, 12:25 AM

That book Cyclopedia Anatomicae is Increadible. I was blown away. My favoright part is the relation of human to animals as in metacarples, somthing I never understood before. Just thought I'd stick my endorcment in here.

Gloominati

October 25th, 2007, 12:20 PM

uh by the may, Moai, it would be awesome if you could send me some reference material.
You can either send via PM or E-mail : gloominati@web.de

Moai

October 25th, 2007, 08:32 PM

EbonStripedMystery- Thanks for the kind words! I'm honored that you registered just for this. You don't need to sign up anywhere. I'll just remember you.:rendered: Keep in mind that it may be a year or more before I start this over with new mentees, so you might not really need a mentor by then, especially if you're keeping up independently.
MonkeYoakum- Thanks for the recommendation. I'll have to try to get my hands on that book, now!
Gloominati- I forwarded some image-laden emails to you. Use them well!
Noe- Thanks for the thanks!:bashful:

So, everyone, in all probability there will be no more updates from me for the rest of the month. I need to get my butt in gear to finish CoW 100! Next month, though...:needle:

Asatira

October 27th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Woot! Nice thread, and thanks for putting it up. Just found and am happily following along.

Moai

October 28th, 2007, 02:21 PM

Thanks, Asatira.:rendered:

CA member iatriki just posted a fantastic collection of links in the Fine Art section. Among the links was a collection of every image from Ellenberger's animal anatomy book! Here's a link to that: link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/initialize?sessionid=0&javascript=true&dbchoice=1&active=1&entityCurrentPage=Search1&dbname=Science&style=Science&next=NEXTCMD%7FSortedQuery?&context;&termsrch=%28ti%3D+%28Veterinary+Anatomical+lllustr ations%29%29&fmtclass=gallery&next=html/nfbrief.html&bad=error/badsearch.html&entitytoprecno=1&entitycurrecno=1&entitytempjds=TRUE&numrecs=12%7F). And here's a link to iatriki's wonderful thread, which has many more resources: link (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1503742#post1503742). Enjoy!

Gloominati

October 28th, 2007, 02:40 PM

hoooooolly crap, thats amazing!

Justin.

October 31st, 2007, 01:41 AM

D/l'd all the pixxx!!

Is there an assignment 2 that I am overlooking? D:

Moai

October 31st, 2007, 02:20 AM

Assignment 2 will be on musculature, and it will be up soon.:wink: I'll probably start posting images for that this weekend or early next week.
In the meantime, post any studies you've done of the skeleton!

Moai

November 4th, 2007, 01:53 AM

So, any of you mentees going to the workshop? I know you are, Justin, but what about the other two of you? I'll be there.:teeth:
My lesson on muscle anatomy is in progress. Now post yer dang studies!

realitychek

November 4th, 2007, 08:09 AM

Nope, I'm not going to be there, wish I could though. I'll post more studies tonight or tomorrow sometime

Gloominati

November 4th, 2007, 08:26 AM

unfortunately I'm not going to go either.

how long till assignment 2 will be up? I have just finished smacking all the extremeties into my head. Skull,chest and pelvis are coming today and in the next few days......ugh! Just wanna to know how hard I have to kick myself in the ass :D

I will pst the studies that i did so far today, but there will be still a lot more to come!

so there we go, here are the few ones, that might be worth showing, as I already said, more will come todas evening, these are only the front extremeties
Sorry for the fucked up shots, but my digicam sucks so much ass I can't even tell.

Moai

November 4th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Very nice studies, Gloominati. Very thoroughly done, and I'm glad to see that you're some comparative anatomy between herbivores and carnivores. That's what a lot of my more specific anatomy lessons will come down to.
Lesson two will likely start going up later this week.
I'm sorry to hear that you guys won't be going to the workshop.:[

Gloominati

November 4th, 2007, 11:32 AM

thanks!
Yeah I would love to go to one of these workshops someday, but its kinda difficult for me to pay all that stuff, otherwise i would be the first one to sign up. Well maybe next time.

Moai

November 5th, 2007, 11:18 AM

ASSIGNMENT: Go to the Creature of the Week activity forum, look at the entries to CoW 100, and be effing inspired like you never have before.

Gloominati

November 5th, 2007, 03:06 PM

ASSIGNMENT: Go to the Creature of the Week activity forum, look at the entries to CoW 100, and be effing inspired like you never have before.

done :D

realitychek

November 5th, 2007, 04:16 PM

ASSIGNMENT: Go to the Creature of the Week activity forum, look at the entries to CoW 100, and be effing inspired like you never have before.

About half-way through looking them all over very thoroughly- I am still in creature OD inspirational happy-land :D Still can't get over them all:yayca:

Moai

November 5th, 2007, 04:23 PM

I'm glad you guys are enjoying that.:rendered: My head is still spinning from all the great creatures!
Once I get the generic anatomy out of the way and fill your brain libraries with some creature facts and images, I'll be having you guys do something similar to that, but on a smaller scale.

realitychek

November 5th, 2007, 08:47 PM

Ok...a couple of studies, first one is practice with the horse scapula, and second is studies on dog legs, and a dog skull study as well :)
233619

233620

Will be working on cow and lion throughout this week

Mike Corriero

November 6th, 2007, 02:23 PM

As you guys are drawing the studies of the primary important bones which make up the movement and joints of each animal, look at some photos of animals in motion. It could be a dog, lion, cow or deer and just understand which bones are where and how they are bending.
No matter what category they fall under so long as they are a vertebrate mammal (quadruped or biped) each skeletal structure consist of the same bones (with little exception) just placed in different variations and sizes. This is what makes creature design possible, because you can in fact elongate and change the skeletal structure in so many ways and still get a functional design. (forget aquatic mammals, in terms of whales and dolphins for now only because they lack actual multi jointed limbs, arms, legs)

Break the bones down in terms of Thigh, knee, Shin, Ankle, Toes and then take a look at how each bends and the limitations of their movement. The limitations in movement vary from animal to animal according to size and weight due to weight distribution and body structure.
Obviously an elephant isn't going to have the same stride to that of a horse or that of a horse compared to a cheetah. Just some stuff to keep in mind while doing the studies so you don't just draw the bones but understand how they're used. I'm sure Moai was going to elaborate on this stuff in the muscle assignments or probably after but I just wanted to mention it now.

Justin.

November 6th, 2007, 02:52 PM

agh.. still having issues with my scanner.. I'll do some digi's so I have something to actually contribute.

Moai

November 10th, 2007, 12:58 AM

realitychek- Very good! Some crits: the shape of the humerus on the horse can be defined a bit more, and the space between the upper and lower jaws on the dog is too wide. Also, you may consider labeling all the parts, just to get the names in your head. But strong studies, in any case. I'm looking forward to more.
MikeCorriero- Thanks for that, man. Those are valuable things to keep in mind. We're going to elaborate on those points a bit in the muscle lecture and in the more in-depth lectures on individual animal types.
Jusin Oaksford- Looking forward to it.:wink:

So, I've completed the first parts of the muscle lecture. Do you guys want me to go ahead and start posting, or would you rather wait until you've studied the skeleton a bit more?

EDIT: Scratch that. Before I do the muscle lecture, I'm going to do a lecture on movement, joints, etc., that'll expand on what Mike said. That'll be up very soon. I promise! I'm getting to work on the diagrams for that right now.

Moai

November 10th, 2007, 09:35 PM

I told you I was getting right to work on it, right?:rendered: This lesson focuses on the possible movements of the various joints of the skeleton.

First, before we get into it, some basic terms. My sources include Eliot Goldfinger's Animal Anatomy for Artists and good ol' wikipedia.
Joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint)- In the skeleton, a joint is where two bones meet and articulate (move against, in other words) on each other. There are several types of joints, and each has a different range of motion.
Synvovial Joints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synovial_joint)- These are the types of joints that we're talking about. They're the most mobile of the three types of joints. Between the two bones of a synvovial joint there's a fluid-filled cavity, which I suppose aids in lubricating the joint.
The following are various types of synvovial joints.
Ball and socket joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_and_socket_joint)- In this type of joint, the roughly spherical end of one bone fits into a cup-like cavity in another bone. This allows a practically unlimited range of movement; in actuality, however, the movements of the bones in ball and socket joints are limited by muscles, ligaments, tendons, and other such things.
Condyloid joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condyloid_joint)- In this type of joint, a convex (bulging out) bone articulates with a concave (curved in) bone. This is a very versatile joint, able to do practically every type of movement except rotation (the various types of movements are defined below). The classic example of this type of joint is the wrist.
Saddle joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_joint)- I don't really know how to describe the shape of this bone, so just follow the dang link and look at it yourself. It is pretty much the same as the condyloid joint in terms of range of motion.
Hinge joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinge_joint)- Hinge joints are very easy to understand. The name pretty much says it all. Hinge joints can only flex and extend (again, terms defined below). The elbow and all the fingers and toes are composed of hinge joints.
Pivot joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivot_joint)- Just as the hinge joint only allows flexion and extension, the pivot joint can only rotate. The radius is the perfect example of a bone that articulates using this type of joint.
Gliding joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliding_joint)- In this type of joint, two flat planes of bone glide against each other. Gliding joints seem to occur mostly in the carpal and tarsal complexes, and between the vertebrae. The movements of these joints are probably the least conspicuous of any of the joint types.

Types of motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomical_terms_of_motion):
Flexion- Flexion occurs when the angle between two bones decreases. To put it very plainly, flexion is bending.
Extension- The opposite of flexion, extension occurs when the angle between two bones increases. Put plainly, it is straightening.
Abduction- The bone is drawn away from the midline of the body.
Adduction- The bone is drawn toward the midline of the body.
Rotation- Rather than changing the angle of a bone, rotation turns a bone along its axis. It can be divided into internal rotation, in which a bone rotates to face inward, and external rotation, in which a bone rotates to face outward. However, those terms don't apply to rotation that occurs along the midline of the body, such as when the head is rotated.
Protrusion- The bone is moved anteriorly (forward). Push your lower jaw forward, and you have committed protrusion.
Retrusion- The opposite of protrusion; the bone is moved posteriorly (backward).
Circumduction- A complex movement that is a combination of several of the other types of movement. It is a conical movement possible with ball and socket joints. "Windmilling" the arms is an example of circumduction.
Elevation- A bone is moved upwards.
Depression- A bone is moved downwards.

The following are special case names for movements. They are synonymous with the movements already mentioned, but are only applied to certain parts of the body.
Pronation- This is a special case of rotation in which the palm of the hand (sole of front foot) is rotated to face rearwards/downwards. Almost every animal walks with its front limbs pronated.
Supination- In the opposite of pronation, the palm of the hand is rotated to face forward/upward. Many animals are unable to make this movement, such as dogs and ungulates (hoofed animals). It is most common in animals such as primates and felines, who need to climb and hold onto things, and thus need to turn the hand away from its default position.
Dorsiflexion- Occurs when the foot is flexed upwards, as if taking it off of the pedal of an automobile.
Plantarflexion- When the foot is flexed downwards, as if pressing it on the pedal of an automobile. I took these terms almost verbatim from Wikipedia.
Eversion- When the sole of the foot is moved to face away from the midline.
Inversion- When the sole of the foot is moved to face towards the midline.
Protraction- You say this instead of protrusion when you're talking about the scapula.
Retraction- You say this instead of restrusion when you're talking about the scapula. I suppose there's a good reason for applying these different names to the same movement for a specific bone, but I don't know what that reason is.

I think that just about covers it for general terms. Now on to the specific movements of the body.

The movements of the head:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/head-movements.jpg

1. Flexion (blue) and extension (red) of the head.
2. The head can be rotated as well, though usually not to a great degree.
3. The head can be moved laterally (from side to side).
These movements occur on several fairly complex joints involving the condyles on the back of the skull, the atlas vertebra, and the axis vertebra.

The movements of the mandible:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/jaw-movements.jpg

1. The most basic movement of the jaw is the hinge movement, in which the jaw opens and closes. I imagine that opening the jaw would be considered extension, but I'm not sure.
2. The jaw is also capable of protrusion and retrusion.
3. The jaw can also wobble from side to side. I suppose this would be considered adduction and abduction.
Every jawed animal, as far as I know, can open and close its jaws. However, not all can protrude/retrude or wobble the jaw.

And now onto the spine:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/spine-movements.jpg

In vertebrates, much of the larger movements of animals, as well as changes in posture, occur in the spine. The vertebrae of the spine are capable of many movements against each other. Individually, these movements are usually rather small, but the overall movement of the animal can be much larger if multiple vertebrae are involved. The spine can flex (blue) and extend (red) vertically, as shown in diagram 1, as well as move from side to side, as shown in diagram 2. I don't know if the lateral movement would be considered flexion and extension as well, or adduction and abduction. Though not pictured, the vertebrae can also rotate. The cervical (neck), lumbar (between ribcage and pelvis), and coccygeal (tail) vertebrae are the most flexible. Thoracic vertebrae, being encumbered by the ribcage, are less flexible, and the sacral vertebrae, being fused into a single bone, are not flexible at all.

Now, onto the forelimb, starting with the shoulder blade.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/shoulder-movements.jpg

In most animals, the shoulder blade is attached to the torso only by muscles, not bone. It therefore has quite a bit of freedom of movement. It is capable of protraction and retraction (1, red) as well as elevation and depression (1, blue). As shown in image 2, it is also capable of a degree of rotation. These movements usually happen all at once, rather than in isolation. When an animal steps forward, in order to bring the limb closer to the ground and closer to the front, the scapula will protract, depress, and rotate clockwise (if you're looking at it from the left side, as we are). When the animal pulls the limb closer, moves forward, and steps forward with its other limb, the scapula does the opposite motion: it retracts, elevates, and rotate counterclockwise. The retraction and rotation occurs primarily to bring the limb back towards the body, while the elevation occurs mostly because the limb is now the weight-bearing limb (because the other limb is stepping forward and off the ground, and so not bearing any weight).
You can kind of see that happening in this image of a mountain lion. Look at the position of it's right shoulder blade in comparison to the position of its left shoulder blade, and consider that in relation to what kind of movement the animal is currently engaged in.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/mtlion.jpg
Image source: http://www.qnet.com/~saddleup/mountainlion.htm.

Onto the shoulder-humerus joint.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/arm-movements.jpg

The joint where the scapula meets the humerus is one of the most mobile in the body. It is capable of flexion (1, red) and extension (1, blue), obviously, and also adduction (2, blue) and abduction (2, red). It is also capable of rotation (3, red). The composite of all these movements is called circumduction (3, blue), in which the front limb "windmills" around. The degree to which these movements is possible, of course, depends on the animal. Primates and animals that flap their front arms (birds, sea turtles, plesiosaurs) probably have the most freedom of movement in the shoulder joint.

Now for the movements of the forearm.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/forearm.jpg

In terms of movement, the forearm is one of the more simplistic parts of the body. It has two bones, and each bone is capable of two movements. The ulna is capable of flexion (1, red) and extension (1, blue), and nothing else. The radius is capable of supination (2, blue) and pronation (2, red), which is really just another way to say it's capable of rotation. And nothing else.

Onto the wrist.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/wrist-movements.jpg

The wrist is a condyloid joint, meaning that one part of the joint forms a concave (curved in) surface, and the other part forms a convex (curved out) surface that fits into it. The wrist can flex and extend, as shown in diagram 1, and adduct and abduct, as shown in diagram 2. Like in the shoulder, when these two movements are combined they are called circumduction and form a cone of possible movements. I imagine that, in addiction to these large movements, there are many smaller movements taking place between the individual carpal bones. But I don't care about that, and you don't need to either.

The phalanges.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/1st-knuckle-movements.jpg

The first joint of each finger or toe, where the first phalanx bone of the finger meets with the metacarpal, is the most flexible of the joints of the fingers. It is capable of flexion and extension (image 1), as well as adduction and abduction (image 2). The innermost finger, often called the thumb, often has a much greater range of motion, especially when it comes to adduction and adduction.
I'm not including an image on the movements of the rest of the joints of the fingers, because they are all simple hinge joints capable of only flexion and extension. They don't really necessitate a pictorial explanation.
Observe your own hands for a bit as you wiggle your fingers and thumb. Take note of what kinds of movement each joint is capable of. You will find that, for each finger, the first joint is capable of moving up and down (extension and flexion) and side to side (adduction and abduction), while all the joints further down the fingers are capable of only flexion and extension.

Moving on to the hind limb now. It is almost, but not quite, the same story as the forelimb.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/hind-leg-movements.jpg

I hope the image isn't too overwhelming. Rather than do a bunch of individual images for each joint, I decided to compress it all into one image to save myself some time.
The Hip Joint- Analogous to the shoulder joint of the front limb, it is also a ball and socket joint. Because the ball is more deeply inside the socket in the hip than in the shoulder, the hip joint has somewhat less freedom of movement. It is capable of flexion (image 1, red) and extension (image 1, blue), adduction and abduction (image 2, blue and red, respectively), and rotation (image 3, red). Like in some other joints, the hip joint is capable of a circumduction (image 3, blue).
The Knee Joint- Like the forearm, the shin part of the leg can flex/extend and rotate. However, unlike in the forearm, both of those movements occur in the tibia, the larger of the two lower leg bones. The fibula plays more of a part in the ankle joints than in the knee joint. Anyway, the knee is capable of only very minor rotation, which is why the red arrow in image 4 is so small.
The Ankle Joint- The ankle joint is actually several joints. The ankle joint proper consists of the two shin bones and the talus, the uppermost of the tarsals. It is a simple hinge joint, capable of only flexion and extension. For whatever reason, though, in this context extension is called plantarflexion and flexion is called dorsiflexion. Let's just stick with calling it flexion and extension, though. The other joint is called the subtalar joint, and it consists of the talus and the calcaneus (heel bone). It is responsible for rotating the foot. Rotation of the foot so that the sole faces inward is called inversion, and rotation so that the sole of the foot faces outward is called eversion. I illustrated this in image 5, though I used a simplified human foot instead of our generic mammal foot. Eversion is red and inversion is blue.

Now, look at image 1 of the lower leg again. Notice how, in each joint, the direction of flexion and extension reverse. When the hip joint flexes, the femur bends forward, but when the knee joint flexes, the shin bones bend backwards. You'll find that this is true in the front limb as well.
I'll finish of this lesson tomorrow, hopefully. I'll be discussing some of the larger movements and rhythms of the body.

AztcFireFlower

November 12th, 2007, 06:23 PM

Some incredibly good information and explanations. I'm floored by your understanding of anatomy and it's application to critter invention.
Moai you are the Critter King.
Was looking for Mike's SB, 'casue I wanted to check out his critters but found something better:website. Mike you are a great inspiration. Your pages of creatures have been a specific jumping block for my own ideas. Still looking for your ConceptArt SB :(

Moai

November 12th, 2007, 09:53 PM

Thanks, AztcFireFlower! You're too kind. Mike has a thread in the exclusive section, by the way.
Noe- Thank you for constantly thanking my posts.:rendered: I'll have to return the favor by commenting on your sketchbook.

Moai

November 14th, 2007, 05:26 PM

I would like to see some more mentee activity here, please.

realitychek

November 14th, 2007, 07:20 PM

Sorry Moai, school's being an absolute b**** this week, I'll get some more studies up tomorrow

Moai

November 15th, 2007, 06:04 PM

No problem, realitychek. I'm in school as well, so I know how it can get in the way of art. I'd just like hearing from you guys to be less of a rare treat.:rendered:

realitychek

November 15th, 2007, 09:54 PM

Only had time today to finish up overall lion skeleton, but I have a field trip tomorrow which equals about 2 hours drawing time :) Oh, and thanks for going into more depth on the joint movement Moai, it helped me a lot!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/lion.jpg

Justin.

November 16th, 2007, 10:42 PM

I'm so sorry Maoi. I can NOT get my scanner to work, and I can't do these things digitally without much frustration. I do not want to hinder you any, so I'm going to have to humbly drop from the mentorship. This thread is such a great pool of info, and all I'm doing is holding the assignments from progressing. Please pick up a more worth mentee than myself, sorry to let you guys down =(

Moai

November 17th, 2007, 12:34 PM

realitychek- Excellent work! You included all the important parts, which is great. In terms of accuracy, the muzzle is a bit too long, and the toes are a bit too short. But otherwise, you did a great job on that. Try to do a study of the top view of a skeleton as well, if you can.
Justin Oaksford- Alright, dude. I'll take on a new mentee, but you are free to come back anytime at all.

Well, mentees, I'm at another house in another town without my tablet for today, so I'll have to finish lesson two tomorrow. In the meantime, keep studying, because pretty soon you'll need to apply that knowledge with our first concept assignment!:needle:

Jacob Kobryn

November 17th, 2007, 01:07 PM

Jake Kobrin- Next round! You're on the list!:teeth:

I'm in then! :teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

Moai

November 17th, 2007, 01:35 PM

Welcome aboard, Jake! Sorry for forgetting you. I should have just PMed you instead of posting that I'm accepting another mentee. You were first in line, after all.
So, the assignments are up. Get to it!:rendered:

Jacob Kobryn

November 17th, 2007, 01:59 PM

OK so here's my first assignment.

Here are some creatures I like:

I just think that this is hysterical and the grass hopper is really detailed and menacing. Extremely creative.
The Earth Grasshopper by Carlos Cabrera
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/negrotuerto/portfolio6.jpg?t=1195325138

I love dark and freaky designs. I've always been fascinated with the macabre. This creature is awesome. Brutal...
The Leech Demon by Björn Hurri
http://www.bjornhurri.com/sb/06/Jan/coq_done_s.jpg

Wayne Barlowe's Dagger Wrist
http://www.waynebarlowe.com/expedition_images/daggerwrist_06.jpg
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/alienplanet/slideshows/animals/gallery/daggerwrist_hzoom.jpg

What I don't like:

Oh god do I even need to say anything... I don't who the artist is.
http://www.kcjp.com/kcjp/Gallery/Furry/kero_sasami.jpg

My own Creatures:

http://www.conceptart.org/cow/COW100_Jake_Kobrin.jpg
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=238278&stc=1&d=1194929883

I've done some studies but I'll do way more and post them up.

Thanks Moai!

Edit: heres a study I did in mid-October. I can't find my book ANYWHERE!!! I think it's in my moms car but I'm not sure. Can you email me some pdfs or pics? My email is info@kobrinkustoms.com.

Edit 2: I did even more studies today but I can't scan them because I've been really sick (they wanted to stick me in the ER...) and I can't go to my dad's office where the scanner is. As soon as I can I will though and I'll keep studying.

ObaBear

November 18th, 2007, 08:06 PM

Hope you don't mind me posting, but this thread is wonderful. I'm really mechanically minded so reading how you've broken stuff down and how different parts work is super helpful. I'm not a mentee, but I'm definitely going to follow along and do assignments in my own sketchbook. I just need to catch up now!

Moai

November 19th, 2007, 02:33 PM

Hey, Jake! Glad to see you posting some work already. So, Hurricane and Barlowe, huh? Nothing wrong with them.:rendered:
As for your studies, I feel that you are too preoccupied with outlines, and with little details like the notches in the neck vertebrae and the spines on the thoracic vertebrae. Focus on shapes rather than lines, and draw your shapes in the following order: the large shapes, the medium shapes, and the fine shapes. The large shapes are the general areas that the forms occupy; you should draw them lightly and somewhat simplified, paying more attention to overall proportion than to individual details. Then, come in with the medium shapes and use them to refine the large shapes. Save the fine details (like individual teeth and the bumps on a vertabra) for last.
Keep up with those studies. I like that you're practicing some comparative anatomy by doing a human, a carnivore, and a herbivore. That'll come in handy later. And as for emailing you files or PDFs, I posted a link on the second page that has every image in Ellenberger's Atlas of Animal Anatomy (or whatever it's called). That has all the info I'd email you and much more, so just go there instead.

ObaBear- I don't mind you posting at all. Thanks!

Moai

November 19th, 2007, 02:50 PM

ASSIGNMENT: Once you feel that you are pretty comfortable with the skeleton and know all the bones, put that knowledge to use by designing your own skeletons. Sketch out a few skeletons that don't belong to any existing animal. Make the shapes as interesting and outlandish as you please; in fact, I encourage you to do so. Look up the skeletons of some strange animals for inspiration, if you like. Once you have your sketches, choose your made-up skeleton that you like the best, and draw at least three views of it in a neutral pose (you know, just standing there). These views can include side, top, front, back, and even bottom views. Then draw your skeleton engaging in some sort of action, such as running. The three views and the action drawing should be completely rendered, not just sketches. Media and use of colors are up to you (grayscale is perfectly fine for this assignment). Make sure that every skeleton that you draw has all of the parts and bones that I included in my skeleton lesson.
In short:
-Sketches of several imagined skeletons.
-Completed drawings of three different views of one imagined skeleton.
-One completed drawing of same imagined skeleton in an action pose.

Do this only once you feel comfortable with the skeleton. I'd like to see some more studies from all of you before seeing you begin to tackle this. There is no set due date, but if you are taking too long I will start to nag you.

Pandragon

November 19th, 2007, 03:29 PM

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. To bad I found out about it way to late. Mike C. has been a big inspiration to me in the past and glad to see that he is contributing to this class. Not sure how to go about it, but how does one get involved in a class like this as a mentee? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Oops, sorry, just saw the sticky - sign up sheet thread...... my bad.

Jacob Kobryn

November 20th, 2007, 02:19 AM

OK here are my studies from today. Do you think I'm ready for the next assignment? And ignore the first two studies, I was all hyped up on Prednizone......

Mike Corriero

November 20th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Jake,
Don't rush the skeleton phase, it's important. Your cow study as far as I can tell has a lack of ribs, there are 13 sets of ribs if I'm correct, and your study only has what appears to be 8. They look too thick, and the vertebrae of the spine appear to be lacking a few segments as well. This stuff is important because the length and amount of these bones make up the structure and movement of the animal. The rear leg and front leg bones seem too short in areas like the Femur and the Tibia, the Humerus seems a tad short and the Olecranon (elbow) is too pointed and sharp.

I can tell you know this stuff is off as you even wrote it down next to your lion study. It's better if you take more time to study or re-study just one skeleton and get the bones correct, even test yourself without looking at a chart to define the names of each bone. Continue to test yourself until you know the major bones without having to look at a diagram.

I myself would like to see you guys push a little harder, post more often but with higher quality not so much higher quantity. By posting one good drawing you can get feedback quicker and fix your mistakes, then move on to the next portion.

Mike C -

Jacob Kobryn

November 20th, 2007, 05:35 PM

Ok, I'll update this post later with some more studies. I might do just one or two made up skeletons just for practice but I'll keep studying the skeletons.

Moai

November 20th, 2007, 09:11 PM

Pendragon- Thanks! Just note that this thread isn't currently accepting any new mentees.
Jake Kobrin- Mike's words for you were apt. You seem to be rushing. There's no hurry, man. Hurrying the process will only hurt your art. I want you to be much slower and more careful in your studies. It seems that on most of these you're just diving in with your outline and details. That's not the way to draw, especially when you're trying to make an accurate study of something. Repeat to yourself: big, medium, small. Draw the big shapes first, then refine them with medium shapes, then refine those with smaller shapes and fine details. I can tell by the amount of detail in your drawings that you are seeing all of these shapes; you just need to apply this hierarchy to them. And do it lightly! Gesture in the lines very softly so that you can find the shapes, and so that you'll be able to erase unnecessary lines completely.
So, I want you to go back, and draw one skeleton as accurately as you can. Draw it slowly and carefully. Check all of your proportions. Gesture in large shapes first, then add smaller shapes and details. And don't be too concerned about outlines. Once you have that study done as well as you can get it, then move on to the next one. You'll learn the skeleton better by spending more time with it, and you'll become a better artist by putting more time into a single drawing.
You're not ready for the next lesson yet, but you will be before long.:rendered:
Mike Corriero- I disagree with you somewhat on the importance of knowing the exact number of ribs and vertebrae. I think the overall shape of the spinal cord and ribcage are more important. I agree with everything else you said, though, especially the part about the mentees posting more often.:rendered:

Jacob Kobryn

November 20th, 2007, 09:24 PM

Moai

November 20th, 2007, 10:14 PM

Now that I've covered pretty much all of the individual movements of the skeleton, let's look at how those movements are combined as animals walk and run.

First some videos of animals in motion from YouTube. Note that I watched all of these with my volume turned off, so I don't know how noisy they are. One of the videos of a horse running is a music video, I believe. Just beware.
Study the movements these animals make. Pay attention to which joints are flexing and extending at what times. I'm going to go over all this later in this post, but try to analyze it yourself a bit first.

Animals walking:
Lion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhFCLVRC0RE
Lion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y--azGv7UCc
Lion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODlrOgAJaHw
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uujF4dBTMI&feature=related
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ZxzlvKGzQ&feature=related
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar4QAOIOTfE&feature=related
Horse (annoyingly brief, but very good for the few seconds that it lasts). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjPtSW_QPWM
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qML6yPUkhk8&feature=related\
Wolf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrz64WBUw5s
Maned wolf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIeXEiJuJUY
Cows. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU80dHMKPwk&feature=related
Elephant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c37_ZspZi8c&feature=related
Elephant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZhLDdD0p9g&feature=related

Animals running. Decent videos of running animals are harder to come by than walking animals, it seems.
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNx-EmRCb4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoFQ7gpTMsg)
Horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoFQ7gpTMsg
Cheetah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIeXEiJuJUY
Cheetah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxFArfwpjPU

Here are some things that are happening as animals walk:
-The side of the body that is carrying the most weight will be tilted higher than the side of the body that is carrying less weight. The scapula of the forelimb that is carrying the most weight will be higher than the other scapula, and the hip will be tilted so that the side where the limb is carrying more weight will be higher than the other side. Often, the tilt of the shoulders will and the tilt of the pelvis will be opposite of each other; when the right scapula is higher, the left side of the hip is higher, and vice versa. This gives a nice rhythm to the body, and in artwork depicting the human figure it is called contrapposto. When an animal is in motion, the limb that is stepping forward is the limb that is carrying the least wait, so that side of the body will be lower than the opposite side. It is natural for animals to shift their weight from limb to limb when standing as well, so be sure to add an attractive tilt to the shoulder and pelvic girdles even when your animal is just standing around.
-When the front limb is stepping forward, the humerus is extending. When that limb is being drawn back, the humerus is flexing. When the back limb is stepping forward, the femur is flexing, and when it is being drawn back, the femur is extending.
-The second joint of a limb (the elbow in the front limb, the knee in the back limb) is lifted off the ground, that joint usually flexes. When it is on the ground, that joint is usually at least partially extended. So, when a limb is stepping forward, the second joint is flexed, and when it is on the ground, it is more or less extended.
-Like the elbow, the wrist is usually only flexed when the front limb is lifted. In most animals, the wrist cannot really be extended beyond its normal standing position. The ankle, on the other hand, doesn't flex or extend very much at all as an animal is in motion; most movement seems to occur in the hip and knee joints. You can see in some of the videos above that the foot extends a bit right before it steps forward, but it really doesn't flex at all as the hind leg lifts and steps forward, at least when an animal is walking normally.
-In carnivorans, such as dogs and cats, the movements of the phalanges aren't really noticeable, since they're buried in pads of skin and fur. The toes adduct (draw inward) a bit when the foot is lifted and abduct (spread outward) a bit when the foot is on the ground, to spread the weight over a greater area. In hoofed animals, however, the flexion and extension of the toes are very obvious, especially in horses. These animals stand on the tips of their toes, after all. Like other joints, the phalanges of these animals flex when the limb is stepping forward and extend when the foot is on the ground.
-In general, when animals are walking, when the right front limb steps forward, the left hind limb also steps forward, and vice versa. This keeps the animal from becoming unbalanced by lifting both limbs on one side of its body at a time. The rhythm of this movement is a bit different for each species. For example, in the lion and elephant videos, you can see that they step first with the back leg on one side then with the front leg on that same side, and then step forward with first the back and then the front leg on the other side. Many animals move in a rhythm similar to this. However, when depicting animals in motion, drawing the right front limb stepping forward and the left back limb stepping forward, or vice versa, seems to look better, and gives a better sense of balance.
-When walking, the spine bends from side to side so that the limb stepping forward is angled more forward that the limb being drawn back. You can see this happening in the videos above that show a lion walking from the front. This movement is more obvious in carnivorans, which have more flexible spines. In reptiles, the side to side movement is so exaggerated that it is almost comical.

Some notes and images of animals running:
-Here is a sequence of images of a horse galloping, and an animation based on the same image (both from Wikimedia). The joints flex and extend as they do when the animal is walking; the shoulders extend when stepping forward, flex when being drawn back; the hip flexes when stepping forward, extend when being drawn back; and the elbows, wrists, knees and ankles flex when lifted off the ground to step forward and extend when on the ground and being stepped back. However, the movements are all more exaggerated, since fewer, larger movements propel an animal forward more efficiently than several smaller movements. Run across your room in strides of several feet and then in strides of six inches and see which method of movement moves you more quickly and which one makes you more tired to see the truth of this.
You can also see in these images that animals move their limbs in a different rhythm when running than when walking. Rather than alternating between left front foot/right hind foot and right front foot/left hind foot, the horse adopts an asymmetric gait in which the left hind foot hits the ground first, followed by the right hind foot, left front foot, and right front foot (left and right can probably be switched, depending on the species and the preference of the specific animals). All of these feet hit the ground in rapid succession, followed by a brief moment where all the feet are off the ground. This all feet on the ground/all feet off the ground gait seems to be common among hoofed herbivores. Hoofed herbivores have fairly inflexible spines, so the body doesn't bend that much when running.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/gallopinghorsefromwikimedia.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/animatedgallopinghorsefromwikimedia.gif

Other herbivores running:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/pronghorn_antelope_running_fast_lig.jpg
Image source: http://www.wildform.com/products/videolibrary/index.php?display=animals&page=19
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/22287807.jpg
Image source: http://www.jupiterimages.com/popup2.aspx?navigationSubType=itemdetails&itemID=22287807
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/dg15042014.jpg
Image source: http://fr.inmagine.com/dg15042/dg15042014-photo

Animals with a more flexible spine have a different gait when running. They cycle between super-extended and super-flexed positions. In the super-extended position, the spine is extended as far as possible, so that it often bends upwards at the front and back, and the front legs are extended far forward and the back legs are extended far backwards. Animals photographed in this position sometimes look like they are hovering horizontally off the ground. In the super-flexed position, the spine is flexed tightly and the animal seems very compact, with the front and back limbs overlapping each other. The front feet hit the ground at the end of the extended phase and the back legs hit the ground at the end of the flexed phase of movement. Watch the cheetah videos above for the last sentence to make more sense. This is also an asymmetric movement; one of the front feet hits the ground before the other front foot, and one of the back feet hits the ground before the other back foot. It seems that most four legged land mammals move with this gait when they run.

Here are some photos of animals in the flexed position. The animal is flexed so compactly because the front limbs have just been drawn back to push the animal forward, causing the front of the spine to curve downward. Meanwhile, the back legs are being drawn forward, so the back end of the spine is also curving downward.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/whippet-small.jpg
Image source: http://www.stormwindalpacas.com/whippets.htm
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/4380322_scaled_227x151.jpg
Image source: http://www.tejasoutdoors.net/
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/ab0008010601.jpg
Image source: http://www.123rf.com/photo_195109.html

Once the hind feet hit the ground at the end of the flexed phase, the legs extend backwards to powerfully propel the animal forward. At the same time, the front legs extend forward to take another step and start the process over again.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/cheetah_running.jpg
Image source: http://www.bestdamntech.com/category/tech-tips/
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/dog-running.jpg
Image source: http://www.animalsanctuaryuk.com/adopt.html
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/hallelujah-1a-printed.jpg
Image source: http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/2007/06/25/westfords-brigadoon-our-strawberry-festival/
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/250x200_whippet.jpg
Image source: http://www.ebrington.com/blog/tag/moreton
This last photo is of a whippet dog exiting the extended phase and preparing to go into the flexed phase. You can see that one of the front feet has touched the ground and the hind legs are starting to swing forward.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/mentoring%20movement/Just_Suzy_running.jpg
Image source: http://www.longhairedwhippet.com/longhaired_whippet_characteristics.htm

And I believe that is it for lesson two! I'm not planning on giving an assignment for this lesson. Just study this information. It'll come in handy, I promise you.

realitychek

November 20th, 2007, 10:44 PM

Didn't label them yet, I'll do that tomorrow morning.
Lion walking:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/lionwalk.jpg
Cow (sorry about how this one's quality is, not sure what the scanner's doing this time):
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/cow.jpg

and Happy Thanksgiving! :)

Pandragon

November 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM

Pendragon- Thanks! Just note that this thread isn't currently accepting any new mentees.

Alright. I won't bother you guys anymore.

Moai

November 22nd, 2007, 08:05 PM

RealityChek- Your skeletons are refining each time you post studies. That's great! Your proportions look right on, and it looks like you're really getting an understanding of the shapes of the bones. If you feel that you're ready, you have my permission to begin working on the skeleton concept assignment. You may wish to do some studies of front, top, and back views of skeletons, first. If you do begin the concept assignment, be sure to post your sketches here before you start on your final renderings, so Mike Corriero and I can give you some input.
Pendragon- You're not bothering us at all! I really appreciated your comments.

Jacob Kobryn

November 23rd, 2007, 01:17 AM

Here are two made up skeletons that I did but I'll keep studying real ones until I get better. These were really just for fun...

Mike Corriero

November 23rd, 2007, 03:20 PM

RealityChek - even though it's a bad scan, that cow skeleton is looking good.
Moai- great posts, that's a wealth of information about animals in motion, great photos.

Moai

November 25th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Thanks, Mike!
Jake, those look pretty cool. I like the first one the most. I imagine it as a large, slow animal, herbivorous but more than equipped to defend itself with its tusks and clubbed tail. The large lower canines is fairly original, too; having tusks come from the lower jaw instead of the upper jaw is an uncommon adaptation in nature. The second critter isn't as creative. It looks basically like a giraffe or one of the taller extinct species of rhinos. With hair and a distinctive color pattern it could probably be a nice design, but since we aren't into that stuff yet, I want you to be more outlandish with your skeleton designs.
In other crits, you still seem to be going in immediately with the outlines and details, rather than starting with the large shapes like I suggested. If possible, I would like to log on to Sketcher with you so I can show you in real time what I mean by that. You're in the same time zone as me, I believe, so just PM me with a time that you'd be available to do that, if you would. In terms of skeletal accuracy, in your long-necked critter you have many many vertebrae in the neck, when almost every mammal has seven cervical vertebrae, no matter how long or short the neck is. Your scapulae are also lacking their central ridges, and your pelvises have no ischia (the ischium is the part that sticks out at the back end of the pelvis). So, review the skeleton a bit more, and really try to slow down and focus less on the outlines of the shapes when you draw.

Jacob Kobryn

November 25th, 2007, 02:01 PM

We can draw on openCanvas with each other. It's more private and has more features. It also feels a bit more like photoshop vs a chat room. I'll pm you with my info.

realitychek

November 25th, 2007, 04:46 PM

I think I'll do a few more studies before moving onto the next project

Jacob Kobryn

November 26th, 2007, 02:38 AM

Heres a made up skeleton I did on openCanvas.

Gloominati

November 26th, 2007, 01:54 PM

So first fo all i want to say sorry for not being here for quite a long time, life is pretty busy these days and I can hardly find any time to scan all my sketchbook stuff and studies for this thread.

Here is "part 1" of my studies done so far, I will try to scan some more of the bunch of studies I have over here and post it today night or tomorrow morning.

The studies in this post include some pelvis studies (generic pelvis posted by Mr. moai and pelvis of a horse) and some horse limbs.

More to come later.

Mike Corriero

November 27th, 2007, 01:05 PM

Christof,
Glad to see you post, looks like you paid close attention to your studies labeling things and being very precise with your line work and each part of the bone structure. When you get a chance, try and post a full skeleton of a quadruped mammal (herbivore or carnivore) before moving on to the imaginary ones.

I'll have more advice to offer once we start reaching the actual creature design portion, after the bone and muscle work is out of the way. Something I think should be incorporated Moai, not sure if you planned to do this but having them take one of the imaginary creatures and producing a skinned version of it based off the bones would help them a lot. This is something I just did for a portion of a workshop.

Moai

November 27th, 2007, 05:13 PM

Good idea, Mike. I actually was thinking of having them add muscles to the skeletons they make for this assignment as one of their assignments for the muscle lecture. Or actually, now that I reread that sentence, do you mean to have them start with a fully-fleshed imaginary animal, and then draw a skeleton based on that? That's also a good idea!
Gloominati, those are gorgeous studies. I like how you're feeling the forms with the lines you drew across them. You are definitely paying very close attention. Once you do a few more studies of some other parts and of entire animals, you will definitely be ready to do the concept assignment.
Jake Kobrin- You are not ready to be making your own skeletons. I'm sorry if I seem harsh in my critique here, but that skeleton is riddled with inaccuracies and missing parts, and it's obvious that you weren't looking at reference when you did it. On the head, the general shape of the cranium is good, except that the rear part of the skull (the brain case and occipital crest) is quite bent. The crest of the skull usually isn't that pronounced. The creature's teeth all look line canines, rather than being divided into incisors and molars/carnassials as well. I can see that you made your cervical vertebrae look a bit different from the rest of the spine, but your thoracic and lumbar vertebrae look exactly the same. Remember, the lumbar vertebrae have a different shape, and usually don't have spines as high as the thoracic vertebrae. The shape and structure of the scapula is incorrect, and the humerus is oversimplified. The hands/hooks would be more believable if you included some metatarsals, just to show that those unique limbs are indeed related to the hands and feet of other animals. The shape pelvis is oddly shaped and it in particular looks like you were drawing from memory, rather than from reference. Don't rely on your memory for these things at this time, young jedi! Use reference! There is no sacrum that I can make out. The hind limbs could be more refined, but they do have all the bones that they should.
What this drawing has shown me is that you are not ready to invent your own skeletons yet. Be patient, and plow through the sometimes-boring task of studying. Your knowledge of the skeleton will improve, and this will give you a better set of tools to use when building your own animals.
Remember, man, that I'm only harsh because I love ya.

Also, Jake, I'd still like to get together with you on Open Canvas. Is there a way for you to connect to me, rather than me trying to connect to you? We didn't have too much luck with that last time.:shrug:

Have fun, guys. I look forward to further work from you. Meanwhile, I'll get to work again on preparing for the muscle lesson.

Mike Corriero

November 27th, 2007, 08:42 PM

(Either - Or) It would help for them to draw the bones, then the actual creature rendered, as well as the opposite, drawing the rendered creature and then trying to draw out the bones. By doing the opposite they'll see if they learned anything about creating a creature with a believable or at least semi-realistic bone structure underneath.
Drawing a creature and then trying to draw the bones that would fit underneath could show you many mistakes and make it easy to understand where you went wrong with the bone structure and placement. These are things to come a bit later obviously but its good to discuss them now.

Jacob Kobryn

November 27th, 2007, 08:43 PM

Thanks for the crit, I'll keep studying. Follow this guide to learn how to connect and send me your info. I have a bit of time today. http://www.angelfire.com/anime/Jessjessica/oc/7.html

Gloominati

November 28th, 2007, 12:35 PM

Thanks, Mike and Moai, glad to hear that this stuff doesn't seem to be that bad :D

here's one lionskull for you, more to come later!

BTW: LOL I have studies of limbs, skulls, limbs in movement, ribcage but not one single completed skeleton, dang it! gonna get right to work now!!

Moai

December 3rd, 2007, 03:25 PM

Sorry for being absent for a few days, guys. I had a bit of a family occurrence that kept me away.
Cool skull, Gloominati. Like I said, it's great how you're feeling your way around the forms with those lines.
Jake Kobrin, I'll probably be able to try to connect with you again within the next few days. Let me know when you're free, okay? Sorry for the delay in that, dude.

Caskin

December 4th, 2007, 01:46 AM

Hey Maoi, I just had to break my dissapearance streak to pop in and say I absolutely LOVE all this information on movement you're bringing up! Bravo my man, bravo! This is something that almost never gets touched upon or even thought of by many artists, when it's sooooo essential to drawing good creatures.

Keep it up. I love seeing all you mentee's drawings most of all ;)

realitychek

December 4th, 2007, 07:08 PM

One more study (front of cow), I know the ribcage is too narrow, but fixing that would've meant redoing the legs. Also a concept idea I was fiddling with

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/cowfront.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/con1.jpg

Moai

December 6th, 2007, 01:14 AM

Hey, realitychek! Glad to see another study from you. These are looking nice. As far as crits go, the rib cage is indeed a bit too narrow, but I don't think it's very noticeable. The perspective on the shoulder blade is looking a little funny, and the legs are looking somewhat unsteady. This is from Ellenberger, correct? Pay close attention to the angles of each segment of the limb. The ulna/radius segment (these bones are combined in the cow), bend inward a bit when looking from the front view. This is so that the legs will be more directly underneath the weight of the body, and therefore able to carry it more efficiently. Keep this in mind when doing your studies and drawing your own creatures, so their stance and footing will seem more solid.
Your concept is looking good. That's a very interesting skull; I'd be interested to see what that beast would look like fully fleshed-out. It's also interesting how you chose to have it standing on its knuckles. You may consider "beefing up" the bones of its front feet a bit, as they seem a little thin to be supporting its large ribcage and head. You also may want to lengthen its humerus. Why? Animals that walk on their knuckles often do so because they have dexterous fingers that are well-adapted to handling things, but not very good for supporting weight. Examples include modern apes, which use their hands to grasp things and climb, and extinct Megatherium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatherium) and Chalicotheres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalicothere), which used their clawed forelimbs to forage for vegetation. These animals have long forelegs/arms, so that they can reach out and handle things. Therefore, their humeri are fairly long and not tucked closely to the body. The humerus of your creature is more like that of a cow: short and tucked close to the body, and unable to reach out to any extent. Just something to consider.
When you draw more imagined skeletons, try this method and see how you like it. Draw some random shapes, and try to fit a skeleton or part of the skeleton (like the skull) into it. That's what I did in this little sketch page of animal skulls: photobucket link (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/71--carniskulls.jpg). This way you can force yourself to come up with very creative solutions for fitting the skeleton into those strange and outlandish shapes. Also, if the abstract shapes that you start with are attractive, this will make the fundamental design of your skeleton concept stronger.
Have fun.

realitychek

December 6th, 2007, 05:26 PM

Yeah, working out of both Ellenberger and Goldfinger.
I did get some extra time in school to do up some skull concepts with the random shapes and doodles and here's what I came up with :)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/skullconcepts.jpg

Moai

December 7th, 2007, 01:44 AM

Those are cool, Realitychek! The time you've spend studying is definitely showing in those concepts. I can clearly see some bits of horse and dog anatomy here and there.:rendered:
My favorite skull by far, and the most inspired and original, in my opinion, is the one on the upper right. That's a very unique skull. The arrangement and shapes of its teeth are very interesting, as is that pronounced gap between its molars and front teeth on the upper jaw. What a fascinating skull. There are only two things troubling me about that skull. For one, I can't see the naris, or nasal opening. And secondarily, its zygomatic arch looks fairly thin. That may not be a problem, though; the zygomatic arches of small mammals tend to be thin.
I'd like to know more about what was going on in your head when you drew that skull. What inspired you? Were you using any particular animal skull as reference, or was it all just from your imagination.
Keep playing with the random shape method. Try even more outlandish and unlikely shapes, if you like. You're getting some good results.

realitychek

December 7th, 2007, 07:08 AM

Thanks :) The one in the upper right was my favorite so far as well, just liked how different it looked. On that skull I didn't use much of any reference, I would have, but the free time I got was rather unexpected and my anatomy books were in my locker, so I could only work from the studies I had in my sketchbook. I think I was imagining something a bit like a hippo even though it looks nothing like a hippo skull, so more of a fully fleshed out hippo shape was going on in my mind and being put into skull form I guess if that makes any sense

Moai

December 12th, 2007, 09:51 PM

Yeah, it's definitely hippo-ish.
Anyway, mentees, I'm sorry for my inactivity in this thread lately. I am definitely feeling the end-of-semester crunch over here, coupled with longer hours at work for the holiday season. So yeah, I'm not having much time for art at all. I hope you all are faring better.:rendered: Since I'm going to be distracted for probably the rest of the month with work, school, Christmas pictures, and LMS, it will probably be January before I can put the muscle lecture up. Sorry.
In other news, Gloominati has unfortunately dropped out.:[ But don't worry too much, because the reason he dropped was because he was getting so many art jobs. So, good for him!:rendered:
So, we have Noe, aka Marleen, as our new mentee. Welcome!
In still other news, I'd like to see some more studies from you, Jake Kobrin.

Happy busy holidays, everyone.:rendered:

Jacob Kobryn

December 12th, 2007, 10:19 PM

In still other news, I'd like to see some more studies from you, Jake Kobrin.

I'm sorry about that I've had pretty much no time at all for art because I've been trying to get in last minute school work and studying for finals. Yesterday was my only break and I went a TOOL concert (which was awesome!).
I'd still like to draw with you in OC when you have the time. Hopefully we can coordinate something but if we can't there's always Seattle.

realitychek

December 13th, 2007, 07:14 AM

No problem Moai, it's the holiday season so everyone's pretty much screwed on time....Which reminds me I need to get more work done on my LMS entry :S

Noë

December 13th, 2007, 12:24 PM

Hello all, and especially Moai, Mike Corriero, realitychek and Jake Kobrin!
I'll just say a little bit about myself and proceed with assignment number one.

My name is Marleen Renders, I live in the Netherlands and I'm 17 years of age. I'm in my 6th and last year of the VWO (secondary school, pre-university I think is the best description).
I'm pretty busy with all the homework that exam year brings, but I think I'll manage to take one hour a day (and a little more in the weekends) to spend drawing creature skeletons (and more, later on), to make this a success.
I have a problem getting out of my comfort zone, which is currently drawing humans, faces, and doing reference studies and I'm really looking forward to finally getting out of that comfy zone and work more on other topics as well.
About my education so far: I'm taking a lifedrawing class once every two weeks, also I have the class "drawing" in school, which consists of one hour art history a week and 4 hours of drawing/ painting. I'm planning to study illustration after I finish secondary school.
I've had a sketchbook here on CA since I was 15, and I have improved okay in those two years, the crits in my sketchbook helped me enormously and I'm very grateful for this great place on the web.

Now..
Assignment 01
Creature designs I think are sexay;
I made a pretty big selection, and realized I had way too many pictures, so I narrowed it down to 7 :)
First: here are two scans of fish from a tropical fish book I have (by Keith Sagar and Jack Swain):

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And these are all by Doughbot, from the GuildWars Nightfall thread. I picked a few which might describe which sorts of creatures I find interesting.

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EDIT: I think elephants are pretty awesome too, so I added a picture:
http://www.klinkenberg.ws/cms/templates/zatemplate/img/01301164_African_Elephant.jpg

Ofcourse there are many many interesting animals, so I couldn't possibly link all of them, but I hope this gives a nice impression.

one of my "creature designs"

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I know these don't make any sense, but it's all I could find that were just a bit design and not more then 75% study (although that cat thing is really just a sketch of a cat that went a little further :S)

So I guess I really never díd a creature design this last year.. :\
To see where I am now with the other sketch stuff, you can view my sketchbook (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45999&page=80)

Okay, that was assignment 1, and it took approximately one hour so I'll have to continue the school stuff now :)
I just want to say that I'm really happy to be in this class and that I'll try to get things handed in in time and all that jazz..

Love
Marleen

Noë

December 13th, 2007, 12:53 PM

Assignment 02 - Part 1 (of -hopefully- many)

Okay just one more small post with some studies I did before I was an official mentee.. I think these are too rushed, and I didn't watch proportions enough. But I figured I'd post them anyway to show something..
Next up are in depth drawings of full skeletons, I'm thinking two or three detailed skeletons, with good proportions, from the side view.
Question: how much time would you suggest to take for this? I'm thinking 1,5 - 2 hours per skeleton?
Question two: Is A4 format good for studies, or might it be better to use my A3 sketchpad?

enough babbling...

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Love,
Marleen

Noë

December 14th, 2007, 03:21 PM

Assignment 02 - Part 2 EDIT: it turned out to be a sheep :P

So erm.. Sorry for posting three times in a row, I do this because I think a new day/ new assignment deserves a new post. However if someone thinks it's better that I edit this post in with the last one and delete this, I'll do that ofcourse!

So, Fridays are nice for me because I'm out of school early..
I spent three hours on this skeleton this evening. That's a little much maybe, but it came out okay ^^ For the next sideviews I think I'll spend approximately two hours.
This was done on A3 paper so I had to scan it in halfs and paste it together in photoshop, therefor there might be some weird angles.. But I tried to get it put together properly again ^^.
So, yes.. The sheep:

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I have a few questions regarding the generic skeleton, they're only minor but since I'm nitpicky I figured I'd ask them anyway:
- 1: How many ribs do these animals usually have? I counted some with 12 and some with 13, and I'm wondering if I counted correctly, or if I might have counted a bone for rib which isn't one.
- 2: Is it usual to have seven cervical vertebrae? I counted 6 on pretty much all animals in my anatomy book (well, I only counted them on 4, but you get the point :P)

Oh well, those were my not so important questions ^^ Gonna get some homework done now..
I'm wondering how to combine this with my LMS piece which I'm hoping to complete in time, but I'll work it out somehow. :bashful:

Love,
Marleen.

Moai

December 14th, 2007, 09:27 PM

Jake Kobrin- It's cool, man. I'll probably have some time to OC with you next week, but I'm not sure. But yeah, we'll definitely have Seattle.

Welcome, Noe! I'm thrilled to see you posting so much here already. That's excellent.
Assignment 01- You gotta love lionfish and elephants, and Dougbot is an excellent creature designer. You have good taste in both real and imaginary creatures.
Assignment 02- Though your self critique is accurate--these do seem a bit rushed and disproportional--you are still taking care to include all the different bones and parts, which is good. The first study is a dog, correct?
The goat looks great. I see only two items that could use some further attention. First, the shape of the scapula you drew is a little exaggerated; the rear point of it doesn't go so far back or at such an acute angle. The skull needs more work than the rib. The zygomatic arch is too thick, the eye socket is too small, and the overall shape of the mandible should be a bit more curved. See these two links: Ellenberger goat skull (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-58573-1417929377&recno=73&resultset=2&format=F&next=html/nffull.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&&entitytoprecno=73&entitycurrecno=73&entityreturnTo=brief), Ellenberger goat skeleton (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-58573-1417929377&recno=78&resultset=2&format=F&next=html/nffull.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&&entitytoprecno=78&entitycurrecno=78&entityreturnTo=brief).

To answer your questions:
Question: how much time would you suggest to take for this? I'm thinking 1,5 - 2 hours per skeleton?
I think one hour on a single skeleton is more than enough, but I draw quickly and am rather impatient. Just take as long as you need.
Question two: Is A4 format good for studies, or might it be better to use my A3 sketchpad?
After looking up what size A4 is and converting millimeters into inches, I do believe that A4 format is plenty large enough.:wink: I draw small as wall as fast, though.
- 1: How many ribs do these animals usually have? I counted some with 12 and some with 13, and I'm wondering if I counted correctly, or if I might have counted a bone for rib which isn't one.
The amount of ribs varies from animal to animal. Twelve or thirteen pairs of ribs are the most common numbers, but after looking through Goldfinger's book, I counted 18 for horses and rhinos, 15 for hippos, 21 or 22 for elephants (the scapula obscured them, so I couldn't be exact), and 14 or 15 for the giant anteater. So, you see, it's quite variable.
- 2: Is it usual to have seven cervical vertebrae? I counted 6 on pretty much all animals in my anatomy book (well, I only counted them on 4, but you get the point )
The amount of cervical vertebrae is much less variable than the amount of ribs, though. Almost every mammal has seven. Only unusual mammals like sloths and manatees have more or less. It's easy to mistake the seventh and last cervical vertebra for a thoracic vertebra, since it is often shorter and smaller than the other cervical vertebrae and often has a long spinous process. Check on that link to images from Ellenberger's animal anatomy book, because those images clearly show that there are seven cervical vertebrae.

It's great that you're asking so many questions. It shows that you're eager to learn. And don't worry if you have to miss a few days of doing these studies to work on schoolwork or your LMS piece. In fact, I have to go work on some homework myself. G'night!

realitychek

December 18th, 2007, 10:31 PM

Ok, dog front- the scanner cut off the phalanges on the front leg but they are there, and on the original front view of the dog, I started a little too low so couldn't fit all of the leg on there- therefore there's a front leg view in the middle of the page :) Some new skull concepts as well

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/dogfrontandback.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/evenmoreskullconcepts.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/moreskullcon.jpg

I don't know why those rodent/buck teeth keep showing up, especially since they should be curving more along with the structure of the skull, not straight down, I think?

Noë

December 19th, 2007, 04:05 AM

HARR ! :P I typed a nice reply here, but then my mum needed the comp, and accidentaly closed all my tabs :P So here it goes again:

Thanks so much for the awesome crits and answers to my questions Cory!
I'm sad to inform you though, that I remembered incorrectly that the skeleton was that of a goat.. It turned out to be the skeleton of a sheep that I drew! Although the two skeletons are quite alike, I think the main differences lie in the skull, and maybe the scapula? :S Not sure about that.. I couldn't find a good skeleton of the goat to compare.. But I'm not sure whether your crits also apply now the study is that of a sheep.. Sorry for that man! :S should've paid more attention remembering the correct animal..
Anyways, I think I did make the eye too small indeed, and I guess I didn't spend much time on the skull, so I'll do a sheep skull study later today, and start to work on another side view of an animal skeleton (by the way.. the skeleton of a cat is pretty awesome! And although I think pigs are really cute wíth skin and muscles, the pig skeleton looks very scary :P)
About the first post of assignment 02: the first study was indeed that of a dog, I think the second one was a quick generic skeleton study.

I asked in my school if it would be okay to draw some skulls they have in the biology classroom, and the teacher said it would be okay, so I'll try to get at least one skull study done from "life" ^^

Sorry, no studies for now. I did do some kneaded eraser animals (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1575339&postcount=631) during a boring class, but that wasn't very serious :P

Love,
Marleen.

EDIT; oh, forgot to reply to the A3 sketchpad thing: I totally forgot about the whole inch conversion problem! :P I think that A4 size is the printer paper size, so that's 8,5 x 11 inches. When the A number goes down (like from 5 to 4) the size of the sheet doubles. So A1 is really big paper, and A6 is very small paper. When you fold an A4 in half, you get two A5's.. :) I found a nice conversion table :P http://www.inkjetart.com/weight.html

Mike Corriero

December 28th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Noe - The Sheep/Goat skeleton looks great. I was just telling Cory on myspace I recently headed to the Museum of Natural History in NYC and damn I wish it were possible for the group here to take a trip there for the entire day. So much to learn and experience, what a great inspiration for creature design. Heading to a museum like that and to Zoos like the Bronx Zoo with live animals will really open your eyes. I'm sure I'll be heading back soon again with a camera and a sketchbook but anyway, that aside, I'm hoping to see this thread pick up a little after the holidays.

Cheers guys,
Mike C -

Moai

December 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Hey! Sorry for my short absence, guys and girls. Hope everyone's holiday was great, that you all got gifts that you actually wanted and can use, and that you all felt some Christmas love.
realitychek- Though it's not a good scan, the drawing itself on the dog study looks pretty good. I seems that you got everything down, and the shapes, sizes, and proportions of everything look about right. The front view of the dog is leaning to the left a bit, but that's the only noticeable error that I can see.
(I'm critiquing your skull concepts from left to right, top to bottom) The first skull looks pretty good. I can imagine the animal it belongs to. The shading is pretty good, and the zygomatic arch looks great. It's obvious that you weren't looking at reference when doing the skull, though. That's a problem that all of these skulls have. Study up more on that, and also study the hinge joint between the mandible and the cranium; it looks kind of odd on most of these skulls.
The second skull has a pretty severe overbite, but that's okay. Gnawing animals like rodents often have overbites, and those big incisors look like they can gnaw pretty good. The nasal bone looks rather odd, but that may not be a problem since this isn't an existing animal. The square forehead is also odd. Look at the images of skulls in Ellenberger and you will see that most animals have more of a diamond-shaped forehead, and that the back point of that diamond is continuous with the cranial crest. Again, an unusually-shaped forehead may not be a problem on a fictional animal, but I want you to be aware of how things really are in nature. Lastly, with this skull and others, it may help for you to think of the skull as a simple shape such as a box before rendering the details. If you think of these features as wrapping around a three dimensional shape, the drawing will seem less flat.
That third skull is a pretty fearsome looking beast. I imagine it as something similar to a warthog, a herbivore or omnivore whose large fangs are more for defense than catching food. Like many of your skulls, this skull is lacking the condyles and processes on the rear of the skull. There is a very unusual gap between the hinge of the mandible and the brain case. The molars of herbivores are not simple squares like that; they are more complex shapes. This is a problem with a lot of your teeth. Lastly for this skull, it's strange the way you shades its entire eye socket and temporal area. There's no reason for this whole area to be in shadow. The last two skulls have this strange shading as well; something to be fixed in future drawings.
The fourth skull, like the second skull, would benefit greatly, greatly by being thought of first as a simple three-dimensional shape. In this case, it would be more of a spherical shape than a square shape. Like your other skulls, the back of the skull seems strange, and the shading in the eye socket and temporal areas doesn't really make sense. What is really bugging me about this skull, though, is the jaw. First of all, it's strange the way the bottom jaw mimics the line of the upper jaw. Look at skull images, and you will see that the contour of the lower jaw doesn't just repeat the contour of the upper jaw. But again, since this isn't a real animal, it's probably okay that it's lower jaw doesn't follow that general rule. Once again, you gave this skull simple checkerboard molars. Not only does this look lazy, but you gave herbivore molars to what seems very much to me to be a carnivore's skull. The skull reminds me of the skulls of small cats and of small, short-faced dogs, like pugs and French bulldogs. And its front teeth look very carnivorous, equipped for biting down on prey. Give this critter some nice, sharp, flesh-shearing, bone-crushing carnassial teeth, rather than grinding molars.
The last skull has many of the problems I mentioned for other skulls, including the strange shading in the temporal area, lazy teeth, flatness, and a general rushed appearance. And yes, those buck teeth should go along more with the general curve of the skull.
Anyway, can't wait to see more work from you.
I'll respond to Noe and Mike in a bit.

Noë

December 29th, 2007, 06:36 AM

Hello Mike and Cory :teeth:
@ Mike:Yes, that museum would be awesome to go and do studies from I guess.. Also, something completely diferent: I'd like to tell you how much I love that thumbnail tutorial you did for ImagineFX a few months ago.. Totally rocked my socks ^^.. I'd like to try it out when we get into the creature design stuff.

@ Cory: I'm sorry to inform you that I don't have studies to post here.
I'm staying at my boyfriend's place (and working on a holiday job and big school project), so my time is limited, all my drawing time goes into my LMS work, and I couldn't take my anatomy book with me because it's too big for my rucksack. :/
So that's a lot of excuses :S Also I'm just waisting some time relaxing :P
But anyways, I've started to do some studies of the generic skeleton, since I printed out your lessons. I'll scan those when I get back home.
Next week (31st-8th of january) I'll be on vacation in Ireland, and after that I'll try to have a proper update for you.
I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I hope you understand.

Love
Marleen.

realitychek

December 29th, 2007, 10:14 AM

Thanks for those crits Moai- definitely gives me lots of things to work on in the future :) I got Goldfinger's book for Christmas as well, so lots of stuff to look at. Hopefully I can do up some new stuff over the next few days and post- we'll have to see how much more time my homework takes up.....

Mike Corriero

December 29th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Noe: Yea when Moai gets around to the more unconventional/unrealistic designs it may work better for that portion. Creatures that don't contain anatomy closely related to mammals and muscular or vertebrate animals though it's possible. It will be a lot of fun to use for invertebrates and strange abstract-like designs. I posted a few of those thumbnails and that final painting in my exclusive sketchbook that I just started again recently for those interested.

Rist

December 31st, 2007, 05:31 PM

Hi Moai.

While lurking I found this awesome thread. I hope you do not mind me prodding my finger into the topic just to say how fantastic this mentoring is. Keep up the good work. As long as I can follow along with the text I am a happy chappy.

Good luck guys.

Moai

January 1st, 2008, 10:00 PM

HAPPY 2008!!!
Noe- Sorry for taking so long in this reply, Marleen! Anyway, I would think that the sheep skeleton wouldn't be much different from a goat skeleton. They are extremely closely related animals. However, I would still recommend you to take a closer look at the goat/sheep skull. Have fun doing skull studies from life!
And although I think pigs are really cute wíth skin and muscles, the pig skeleton looks very scary
That's how I feel about giraffes. Go look up a giraffe skull. It's like an evil dragon skull.
And don't worry about the lack of updates due to going on vacation. I'm going on vacation myself (to the Seattle Workshop!!:D), so I'll be gone until the 10th. Have fun!:rendered:
MikeCorriero- I'll have to try out my local museums for good skeletnos and things to draw. That sounds like fun.
realitychek- Congratulations on your christmas gift! That is truly one of the best animal anatomy books around. A good deal of my muscle lecture will come directly from that book, so it's doubly advantageous for you to have it.:teeth:
Rist- Actually, you can't follow along the text either if you're not a mentee. I don't know how you've been able to read it. I thought the mods put in some special code or something. Just kidding! Thanks for the kind words, man. By all means, follow along!

Jacob Kobryn

January 1st, 2008, 11:26 PM

Moai- I'll bring my animal anatomy book to the workshop with me and maybe we can meet after the workshop to do a mini lesson so you can show me some stuff. I'm really sorry I've been so out of this thread. If there are any animal anatomy books that you think are better than the book I have Eliot Goldfinger, Animal Anatomy for Artists: The Elements of Form) can you recommend them? I just got a $25 gift card to Borders so I can probably get one or, even better for me, can you bring it along when you go to Seattle?

Moai

January 2nd, 2008, 02:19 PM

Jake Kobrin- Great minds think alike, because I'm bringing my own copy of Goldfinger to the workshop as well. As for other books, Elliot Goldfinger is pretty much the best when it comes to straight anatomy, but for books that are more about drawing than anatomy, Joe Weatherly's Guide to Drawing Animals (or whatever the title happens to be) would be a very nice complement. Where Goldfinger breaks the animal body down into a bunch of muscles, Weatherly breaks the animal down into simple three-dimensional forms and fluid lines. Goldfinger is an indespensible resource for knowing how animals are put together, and Weatherly is a very good resource for knowing how to simplify the information from Goldfinger and put it into action. I think it would be a good choice for you. I'd suggest renting it from the library first, just to make sure it's something you want to spend your gift card on. Unfortunately it's too late for me to bring any more books, since I'm already in Oregon visiting a relative before making my final hop on the train up to Seattle. Having a little mini lesson after the workshop one day sounds great. I'm rooming with Longshao, who is another great creature designer and mentor, so perhaps we can get him to give you some tips and info as well.:D
See you either tomorrow or the next day!:teeth:

Edit: Just realized that I sounded a bit concieted by calling Longshao another great creature designer. Oh well.:rendered:

Jacob Kobryn

January 2nd, 2008, 02:54 PM

Oh man that would be awesome! Longshao had some of the best designs in COW 100 imo. It would be awesome to be able to draw with you guys.
Joe Weatherly's Guide to Drawing Animals looks like a pretty good book. I'll at least look through it next time I'm at Borders to see if I like it. I like how he breaks things out into a loose but still very accurate style.
Ya I'll see you tomorrow I guess! :)

Moai

January 16th, 2008, 02:14 PM

Okay, peeps. I'm back. Let's start posting some work again. I'll be getting to work on the muscle lecture, so I'd like to see you all make some more progress with the skeleton before I put that up. Now, get to drawing!:rendered:

realitychek

January 16th, 2008, 04:31 PM

Yes sir :teeth: Should be able to get some stuff up in the next couple of days, LMS has taken all my time away...
However, quick question, I was doodling away some skulls and skeletons in english class the other day and was wondering if there are any carnivorous animals whose skulls have the more elongated shape with a much more pronounced/ farther protruding nasal bone like those of horses and cows?

Noë

January 24th, 2008, 12:39 PM

Okay.. Here goes:

Assignment 02 - Part 3

This is what I've been doing with my drawing time after the deadline of LMS.. So I guess this shows I didn't get a lot of drawing time.
I will make some more time free for this stuff!
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sheep skulls

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generic skulls

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sheep skull and sheep scapula

I'm planning to do some cat skeletons now, so more to come soon!

Love,
Marleen.

Noë

January 29th, 2008, 12:13 PM

Assignment 02 - Part 4

The skull and skeleton of a house cat this time..
Should I do some front views as well or are they not that important right now? :P And should I keep spending this much time drawing the "exact" shape of the bones and render the skeleton, or might it be better to do two sketches with just lines and simplified shapes in that time?

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cat skull (from www.digimorph.org), ballpoint, marker and white pencil on my lovely toned paper.

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cat skeleton, from anatomy book.

I'm probably continuing with a bear skeleton, and then I was thinking of drawing the skeleton from some of those motion movies you (Moai) found..
Would that be okay, or do I need to speed things up maybe and get to some concepting for an imaginary skeleton?

Love,
Marleen.

Noë

February 1st, 2008, 09:03 AM

Assignment 02 - Part 5

A bear skeleton sideview this time.. I spent 1,5 hours on it, trying to speed things up a little.. :S
Had some troubles with the pelvis, scapula, feet and ribcage :P
I have vacation next week, I'm going to spend the week at my boyfriends place, where I don't have access to a (good) scanner, so next studies will be posted probably the monday after next monday. Meanwhile.. Realitychek and Jake Kobrin, where are you? :(

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Love
Marleen.

realitychek

February 1st, 2008, 10:10 AM

Sorry haven't been around lately, teachers were hitting us hard with mid terms this past week, but I'll get some new stuff up this weekend

Moai

February 1st, 2008, 01:53 PM

Noe- Once again, beautiful studies. The toned paper study of the cat skull is particularly lovely, and I think you for reminding me what a great resource digimorph truly is. You could have made some of the forms a bit clearer--for example, when looking at the "wing" of bone that forms the top of the eye socket on your drawing, it is unclear whether we are looking at a top plane or a bottom plane--but overall it's really a very good drawing. For your side view of the cat skeleton, there are two errors that I see. On the jaw, you made the maxilla (upper jaw), extend too far downwards, so it is now crowding the mandible and making it (the mandible) look too thin. The mandible is really rather robust, proportionally, on a domestic cat. Also, the ribcage is too short and deep. The domestic cat has a longer ribcage that looks more squashed from top to bottom. This drawing might be very accurate to the reference that you were looking at, but according to my reference (Goldfinger's book, and Google images), there are errors.
As for your bear skeleton, it is also looking very good, but has a few small errors. I like how your process is visible on the bear's spine; I can see that you drew it as one shape before dividing it up into the individual vertebrae (Jake Kobrin, take note of this!).
Had some troubles with the pelvis, scapula, feet and ribcage
So, let's look at those.:rendered: The pelvis is actually looking pretty good. The ischium (the bony prominence at the very back of the pelvis), should extend out to more of a point, and you could indicate that there is a small plane on the front and top of the iliac crest, to reinforce the idea that these are 3-dimensional shapes. And also, you should separate the pelvis from the sacrum, as they are two separate pieces of bone. Other than that, though, this looks like a fairly accurate pelvis.
There really aren't very many problems with the scapula. The only real problem is that you rendered the two ridges on the scapula the same. The front ridge is actually a very prominent crest of bone, while the rear ridge is much less prominent. You could indicate this by making the outline of the rear ridge not as strong as the outline of the front ridge.
The ribcage, as with the cat, seems too deep and a bit too short. The last rib extends about two-thirds of the way between the scapula and the pelvis, rather than halfway.
As for the feet, I'm not really seeing any problems, except for your metacarpals and metatarsals. You seem to try to be showing all five of each, even though you wouldn't be able to see all of them from this side view.
Other problems that I see: You drew the femur kind of angling outward, while the rest of the leg is viewed from the side. Looks kinda weird. The humerus is a bit too thick, and you could do some more studies to better understand the way the bone twists and whatnot. Is this a straight side view of the head? Because it looks like the head is sort of twisted towards us, allowing us to see a bit more of a top view of the head.
Should I do some front views as well or are they not that important right now? And should I keep spending this much time drawing the "exact" shape of the bones and render the skeleton, or might it be better to do two sketches with just lines and simplified shapes in that time?
Multiple views of the skeleton are always important. You want to be able to draw animals from any angle. Just be very aware of foreshortening when you draw the front view.
And you'll probably want to do both the careful renderings and the simplified shapes. The simplified shapes are easier to understand and draw quickly, and probably more useful when inventing new skeletons. When doing those studies from the videos that you were talking about, you'll probably want to do a more simplified skeleton. It's still useful, though, to know all the little details, so you can make more refined and nuanced drawings when you want to.
I'm probably continuing with a bear skeleton, and then I was thinking of drawing the skeleton from some of those motion movies you (Moai) found..
Would that be okay, or do I need to speed things up maybe and get to some concepting for an imaginary skeleton?
Testing your knowledge by making up a few skeletons or skulls would probably be a good and fun exercise for you. However, the more studies from reality you do, the better. Move on to the concept stage when you feel you are ready.

realitychek- No problem. I have a lot of school work too. Let's just all try to make some time for this when we can.:rendered:

Moai

February 1st, 2008, 02:14 PM

And I just noticed that the response I posted here a few days ago did not actually post, since CA was going through one of its difficult periods at the time. So, here is my response to realitychek's post #125 and Noe's post #126.

realitychek- I'm eager to see that new work of yours.

However, quick question, I was doodling away some skulls and skeletons in english class the other day and was wondering if there are any carnivorous animals whose skulls have the more elongated shape with a much more pronounced/ farther protruding nasal bone like those of horses and cows?
I don't think that there are any carnivorous animals with protruding nasal bones like that. I did a bit of research (i.e., Googled some images of carnivore skulls), and couldn't find any. No mammalian carnivores that I know of have a nose like that. Reptilian and non-mammalian synapsid carnivores (look up "Gorgonopsid" to see an example of what I'm talking about), also had non-protruding nasal openings. But, that doesn't mean you can't give your own carnivorous animals protruding nasal bones like that. Once we start getting going on different animal types, you're going to be combining bits and pieces of different animals like crazy in your designs, so I don't think giving a carnivore an herbivore's nose structure is a big deal.:rendered:
There are, however, plenty of carnivores with elongated heads. Greyhounds, borzois, and collies are dog breeds with markedly elongated skulls. Gorgonopsids, the mammal-like "reptiles" that I mentioned before, have very elongated, almost crescent-shaped skulls. And, of course, there are thousands of different reptiles with elongated skulls. We haven't gone into reptilian bone structure yet, but if you want to look reptiles up for creature inspiration that is fine with me.

Noe- Excellent studies. There was something odd about the eye socket and zygomatic arch of the previous sheep that you drew, but that problem has been done away with here.:rendered: There's nothing really jumping out at me to critique in terms of anatomical accuracy, but I do have a question: are you sure that's a sheep? I don't recall seeing those straight, spiral horns on sheep before.:shrug: I do have a small technique crit, however. It may just be the scan, but the value range on your pencil drawings is pretty low; your darkest dark is a medium gray. Once you are done rendering a drawing, come back in with a softer-lead pencil and add a little more contrast to your darkest darks. This isn't so important when you're just drawing studies, but when you do an illustration that extra little bit will count.

Jake Kobrin- What's keeping you?

And a question for all my mentees: Do you think that the skeleton concept assignment that I gave you is too difficult? Would you prefer that I just continue on into other areas of animal anatomy?

Jacob Kobryn

February 2nd, 2008, 02:10 AM

I felt bad so I did this. :(
I'm sorry... :hugsmile:

realitychek

February 2nd, 2008, 10:46 PM

Ok, here's two concept skeletons, looking at them after I scanned them in, I can see the first one's neck is too rigid, but otherwise I think I've looked at them too long trying to see anything wrong.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/fullskele1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/fullskele2.jpg

edit: Nope, don't think the concept skeleton assignment is too hard...they took longer than just doing studies, but that's in part with coming up with something new and checking reference constantly to see if it "looks right" so to speak. That is what the class is about, right? ;)

Jacob Kobryn

February 3rd, 2008, 12:23 AM

Moai, I've heard many creature designers talk about using shape/silhouete to create interesting creatures (coro wasn't the first...) how can we think about this when only designing thier skeletons?

Noë

February 4th, 2008, 03:59 AM

Thanks for all the in depth crits Moai.. Awesome!

- About the ribcages: I think I measured how deep and long they should be pretty accurately, but I can't check that right now with my anatomy book, for it is at home. I will check on google images also when I do a skeleton, because especially that cat skeleton ribcage looks pretty different on some google images than it does in my anatomy book.
- On the bear skull: yes it is indeed tilted a bit towards the viewer.. It's a little confusing.
- I will try and get some concept skulls and skeletons done. Also some other views if I can find them on the internet ^^ (Oh I love having a free week from school ^^)
- About the sheep horns: yes the book I'm working from said it was a sheep, I think. I'll look up what sort of sheep exactly when I'm back home :)
And a question for all my mentees: Do you think that the skeleton concept assignment that I gave you is too difficult? Would you prefer that I just continue on into other areas of animal anatomy?
No, absolutely not! :) This is also mentoring in creature design right? I think it would be really good to keep that bit of the design part in every stage, so we learn to design the creatures as well ^^. Also those concepty things are some sort of personal work we are working towards, maybe portfolio stuff even, in the end..

So erm, yes, thanks for all the critsies,
and I'll be back in a week with, hopefully, a lot to dump here ^^

Love
Marleen.

EDIT; I think Jake's question is a good one, I've been wondering what to do with silhouettes as well (also in other sketches)
I also have another question:
I've been looking at some dinosaur skeletons (http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/psgallery/gallery.htm), and I was wondering what the main differences between the generic skeleton and dinosaur skeletons are. Of course there are many many differences, but, since a lot of the bones look alike as well, I was wondering about the main differences.
Things I think I found (please correct me if I'm wrong here):
- dinosaurs have way more cervical vertebrae
- the vertebrae are quite different
- the tail is more an extension of the body with dinosaurs, where with the animals that we know, the tails are just an small addition to the body.
- shoulder blade and pelvis look very different
- the ribs are not connected (?)
- there are small bones labeled Gastralia and Chevron here (http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/shdguide/skeletons.jpg), what would be the use of those?
- I couldn't find a sacrum

It is quite interesting how many of the bones are very alike with "modern" animals. I wonder though, where those small bones (gastralia mostly) went..
Don't spend too much time on this question though Cory ^^ I was just interested. :teeth:
I remember reading through some of your posts regarding dinosaurs (I think it was for the 100 C.O.W.?) where you stated that you have an inner dinosaur geek (or something like that), so I figured you would know quite a bit about this.

By the way: this one (http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/psgallery/images/supersaurus.jpg) is pretty awesome.

Moai

February 7th, 2008, 10:32 PM

Now this is what I'm talking about! All my mentees posting artwork and asking questions!:D

Jake Kobrin (1st Post)- Nice to have you back! That's a nice study of a horse head. The line weight could be varied more, but that's more of an aesthetic consideration than an anatomical one. Do more of these!
realitychek- Those are really nice skeleton concepts. The second one is my favorite of the two. Its proportions are nice, and the short, blunt skull contrasts nicely with the long, thin, whip-like tail. It seems to me like a kind of horse-monkey hybrid, and primate characteristics tend to imply intelligence. Having it stand on its hind legs and peering into the distance also implies intelligence. There is also a bit of cat in it, which once again implies intelligence, and also implies independence and a certain self-confident strength. As you can see, each feature you add to a creature design affects the impression others get of it and suggests a personality; learning to do this well is one of the goals of learning the anatomy and design characteristics of many different kinds of animals.
The first one is less interesting. Its shape isn't as elegant or interesting as the shape of the first one. The opposable thumbs on its front feet are somewhat interesting, and the design as a whole could be made very interesting by adding a striking color pattern and some surface textures. However, as simply a skeleton, it could be much more interesting.
Besides the stiff neck of the first animal, the only other error I'm seeing has to do with the right front leg of the second animal. It's humerus is too short. It seems like everything else is good, though.
Jake Kobrin- That's an excellent question. It'll need a longer answer, though, so I'll answer it in a separate post.
Noe- Looking at different sources when studying anatomy is definitely a good idea. It's like studying the human figure; in each book you read, the author will have a somewhat different interpretation of the human body. By studying many books and seeing many different interpretations, you get a clearer idea of how the body actually is.
And I'm glad that neither you nor realitychek thing the concept assignment is too difficult.:rendered:
Your dinosaur question: as you might imagine, my inner dinosaur geek is jumping for joy at this chance to expound on my knowledge of dinosaurs.:D But as you requested, I won't spend too much time. I'll just give you an idea.
Dinosaur and mammal skeletons share many similarities, but as you observed, they also have many differences. The reason for this is that mammals are synapsids, while dinosaurs are diapsids; these are two large groups of animals that split off from each other hundreds of millions of years ago, far before dinosaurs even appeared. Mammals are the only synapsids that still exist, but modern diapsids are much more diverse; they include all living reptiles (with the possible exception of turtles, which may belong in another group), as well as birds, which evolved from dinosaurs. While I'm tempted to delving into the evolutionary relationships of all these animals, I'll take your advice and keep my explanation simple.
- dinosaurs have way more cervical vertebrae
Diapsids are much less strict about the number of vertebrae than mammals are. Birds such as swans and reptiles such as the extinct Elasmosaurus can have a great many cervical vertebrae.
- the vertebrae are quite different
They're a little different, true, but not that different.
- the tail is more an extension of the body with dinosaurs, where with the animals that we know, the tails are just an small addition to the body.
This is mostly true, but only with mammals. Lizards and crocodiles also often have a tail that is very continuous with the body. Marsupial mammals, such as kangaroos and the extinct thylacine (aka Tasmanian wolf or tiger) and thylacosmilus (a South American saber-toothed marsupial, look it up), are in the middle of the tail spectrum. Their tails are thicker and more continuous with the torso than your standard mammals, but less so than with dinosaurs and alligators.
- shoulder blade and pelvis look very different
Again, different but not completely different. The pelvis still has an ilium, ischium, and pubis. The lineages that gave rise to mammals and dinosaurs split off from each other hundreds of millions of years ago, so differences like these are to be expected.
- the ribs are not connected (?)
I'm fairly certain that the ribs are, in fact, connected. The gastralia bones I don't think are ribs.
- there are small bones labeled Gastralia and Chevron here, what would be the use of those?
I'm not sure about the the gastralia, but I believe the chevron is there for structural strength in the tail. In large carnosaurs like Tyrannosaurus, the tail was fairly rigid and used to counterbalance the head; the chevrons would have allowed more places for muscle attachments and whatnot to keep the tail straight and strong. Keep in mind that I'm just speculating here, I don't really know.
- I couldn't find a sacrum
In that picture of the Tyrannosaur skeleton with all the bones labeled, the sacral vertebrae are labeled as well. Whether they are fused into a single bone like on mammals, I don't know.

In addition to those differences that you pointed out (good observations!), there is also a difference in skull structure. While both dinosaurs and mammals have a skull divided into a mandible and a cranium, there are several differences. First, mammals are synapsids, which mean that there is a single opening on the side of the skull, besides the eye and nose openings. In modern mammals, this opening has become the space between the cranium and the zygomatic arch. Diapsids, on the other hand, had two openings. They also tend to have separate nasal openings, as opposed to one on mammals. Their teeth aren't divided into incisors, canines, and molars like mammals, either.
I was planning on giving you all of this information later, when we studied reptiles, and I need to do more research, but that's the just of it, anyways.

I'll be back to answer your question on silhouettes soon, Jake.

Moai

February 8th, 2008, 02:22 AM

Moai, I've heard many creature designers talk about using shape/silhouete to create interesting creatures (coro wasn't the first...) how can we think about this when only designing thier skeletons?

I say again, Jake, that this is a very good question. To answer it, let's consider why designers sometimes use silhouettes to create creature (or other) designs. There are multiple reasons that I can think of to explain why a designer would take this approach.
Working with silhouettes allows you to get a general feel for a design without being distracted by details. It also allows you to think more abstractly; rather than thinking of something as a head or a leg, you can think of it purely in terms of shape, proportion, and gesture. Are the shapes attractive? Are the proportions of the shapes, how large or small a shape is compared to another shape, attractive? Do the curves of the shapes create a nice feeling of movement, action, and dynamism? What sort of personality or character do the shapes, proportions, and movement suggest? Are you going for something that seems powerful, majestic, and confident, or something that is small, timid, and wary? Something large, slow, and gentle, or something sleek, cunning, and murderous? Do the shapes and gestures that you have created give the impression that you were going for?
So, drawing silhouettes allows you to think abstractly and helps you make sure that your design works fundamentally, in terms of the basic principles of design, such as shape, proportion, and movement, and helps you determine whether the combination of these factors implies the personality that you were going for.
Consider how this works with human characters, and how easy it can be to tell characters apart with just an expressive silhouette. It'd be very easy to tell a rich businessman apart from a ninja, and easy to tell each apart from a homeless person, simply from their silhouettes. The businessman will hold his head high with self-satisfaction, the ninja will crouch with stealth, and the homeless person will slump with hopelessness. The businessman will have his feet planted firmly on the ground to express his self-confidence, the ninja will be on tiptoe, and the homeless person will have a heavy, shuffling gait. The business man will have one hand in his pocket and the other holding a cigar, the ninja will hold a dagger in one hand and hold the other hand out for balance, while the homeless person will have his arms hanging dejectedly by his sides, or wrapped around himself for warmth. I just made all that up off the top of my head. Creature archetypes aren't as well-defined or familiar as human archetypes, but they do exist, to be exploited or defied.
Another reason to create some silhouettes is because they're relatively quick and easy to do. Just grab a black marker or digital brush and begin laying down shapes. Since you aren't worried about detail, it won't take you very long to draw many silhouettes, and then you can choose which ones work the best and which ones don't. If a silhouette doesn't work, it's no tragedy, because there wasn't a lot of valuable time invested in it.

So, I've talked quite a bit now, but still haven't answered Jake's question about how this all relates to drawing skeletons. Well, how doesn't it? Skeletons are composed of shapes, aren't they? And those shapes have different proportions, depending on the species. And those shapes can be arranged in such a way to suggest an action. And those shapes can be chosen, sized, and arranged in such a way to suggest a character.
The problem, I think, is that one does silhouettes in order to avoid details, but skeletons seem to be composed of nothing but details. Look at all those segments, protrusions, and holes. And the bones are often so thin and distinct from each other than even if you drew just the silhouettes of the bones, without the interior detail, that would still be a lot of detail just the same.
The trick is to simplify. A horse's head is kind of like a triangle, so when you do a silhouette, just draw out a triangle. Don't worry about the gap between the upper and lower jaws or the small bone that juts out over the nose. The spine is more or less a curvaceous line, so just draw a curvy line without worrying about the spines. The rib cage is kind of like an oval, so just draw an oval without worrying about the individual ribs. The legs can be rather gestural, you don't need to worry about being precise about the elbow or the ankle. The pelvis, as I found out when making up the generic skeleton, is a hard shape to simplify, so you might have to resort to being a bit more detailed when drawing its silhouette. The tail can be a simple extension of the spine, and if it has features like a tall row of spines or a club, those can also be indicated simply.
Also, a possible problem with silhouetting a skeleton is that a silhouette deals mostly with masses, while a skeleton seems to be mostly thin, structural forms. Well, this really isn't that much of a problem, because large, non-bony masses seem to only occur in three places on your typical land mammal: the neck, the abdomen, and the upper hind legs. The head and ribcage are obviously bulky enough by themselves without any flesh on them, and the upper front limbs can usually be lumped in with the rib cage. Limbs become less fleshy and more bony as the distance from the torso increases, so the lower front and hind limbs don't loose that much mass when you take the flesh away. So you have just the neck, belly, and thigh. I don't think that taking those three masses away will drastically change the feeling you get from an animal's silhouette. If a creature has, say, a pot belly, that will still be suggested by the posture of the animal.
So, you see, there's really nothing stopping you from doing some simple, gestural silhouettes of skeletons. Let's practice.

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(Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/newsletter/sept2006/graphics/rhino-skeleton-lg.jpg)
I found this rhino skeleton while searching for images to help answer Jake's question, and thought that it nicely illustrated that a skeleton can be bulky enough to make into a silhouette. There's really not much more mass, visually speaking, on a fully-fleshed rhinoceros than there is on this skeleton.
I changed it into a silhouette in a few different ways. In A, I just put down the general shape of the skeleton with a few strokes of my digital ink pen. You still get a sense of the bulk of the animal as well as what it's doing, but you can also still see that it's a skeleton. In B, I used two different values to put down the main and subordinate masses. I was kind of sloppy with it, but that's a method you can use, anyway. In C, I used two different values again, this time using the lighter value to show the fleshy mass of the animal and using the darker value to draw in the bones inside. That's another way you can use silhouette when doing skeletons; do silhouettes of fully-fleshed creatures until you find a shape that you like, and then just draw a skeleton that would fit inside of that shape. The skeleton itself doesn't have to be the silhouette at all. That's an important point.
In D, I was just half-assedly doodling with the rhino as my basis. The first one is smaller, closer to the ground, with a more hunched spine. This way it seems like a more rotund, ambling creature, yet I get the idea that it can still defend itself, and might be quite short-tempered. It probably grunts and snorts a lot, too. For those last two points, I'm not sure what about the design would make me imagine it as short-tempered or emitting grunting noises, yet those are ideas that I get from it for some reason. These odd little impressions that you get from a creature design can help you refine or push the design in a new direction, as well as imagine its behavior. For the second image in D, I made the rhinoceros prouder, more confident, and more confrontational in character. I did this by making it taller, carrying its head higher, shifting its mass towards the front to imply more power, giving it bigger horns, and lifting its front leg off the ground. Having a leg lifted off the ground implies some sort of action. For the last image in D, I made the rhino much longer and with shorter legs. I also forgot to give it a horn, but that was unintentional. The longer body and shorter legs make it seem slower and mellower; having its head slowly and lazily turn towards us reinforces that impression.

I'll continue this impromptu lecture on silhouette, character, and all that tomorrow morning. I need to sleep.

Jacob Kobryn

February 8th, 2008, 03:27 AM

How's this?

Aurum

February 9th, 2008, 05:44 PM

Sorry to come off all grammar nazi and stuff, but in your intial statements of this thread, you say mentee quit a lot, which isn't a word. The word you're looking for is protégé...

Anyways, I like the lessons here.

Moai

February 11th, 2008, 02:01 AM

Aurum- Haha! Thanks for the correction, Aurum. I realize mentee isn't a word. When the mentoring section started, Seedling (I think) said "mentee" because she couldn't think of the correct word, and then pretty much everyone started using it. Protege...thanks!:teeth:
Jake Kobrin- As far as technique goes, that's a pretty good silhouette. You might try being looser with the legs; or you might not, it's up to you how gestural you want to be. Anyway, there are some problems with the creature's design and anatomy. The anatomy is basically right, but that hook shape at the back end of the rib cage isn't really natural. Birds, which have a large keel-shaped sternum, have a similar shape to their rib cage, but your creature design doesn't really look like a bird. Also, its hindmost leg is too straight.
The rest of its anatomy is basically correct, but it isn't really compatible with what you have the creature doing and what sort of creature it seems that you want it to be. You gave the creature relatively long legs and a deep rib cage, which suggests more of a running animal than a creeping animal (rib cages become deep in order to accommodate large lungs, which a running animal needs to get enough oxygen while exerting itself). You also have it's neck bending down from the highest point on its body, which probably wouldn't be the most comfortable situation for the animal. A better position for a creeping animal would be to have its spine being carried low to the ground, rather than rising to a peak and then sloping back downward to the head like that.
Here are the skeletons of an opossum and of a shrew, to give you a better of what the skeleton of a sneaking, low to the ground animal looks like.
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(Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.254[/URL])
300180
(Image source: http://members.vienna.at/shrew/fotos-skulls.html)

Of course, you don't necessarily have to change the creature design at all. You can use the disparity between its anatomy and the job you have it doing to your advantage, and make the creature an oddity. People will instinctively realize that this creature really isn't built to creep low against the ground like that, so that will make it seem stranger.
Now go do more studies and sketch out some more silhouettes.:rendered:

Noë

February 11th, 2008, 12:46 PM

I've been a huge slacker.. All I did this week were a few skull doodles (from mind mostly) and quick legs.. I'll work extra hard this week to catch up.. Anyways, I'll try, because school is trying to get me overexhausted again.

300413 300414

left: generic skeleton legs: didn't measure proportions this time.
right: Some skull ideas, using the random blob method. While doing these I found out that I need to do some more studies of skulls viewed from the front, because I have no idea how to draw 'em from that direction, and also that I don't know how the cheek bones "attach" to the skull and jaw. But you don't need to answer those questions I think, Moai, because I'll just do some more studies and figure it out
Love,
Marleen.

P.S. Maybe you wonder why I keep thanking all your posts Moai, I'm not trying to suck up or anything :asslick:, I just think these posts contain very valuable and detailed information, and you should receive some digital thanks for putting so much time and effort in these posts.

Moai

February 16th, 2008, 10:10 PM

Hello again, Noe. Nice to see some more work from you.:rendered:
I've been a huge slacker.. All I did this week were a few skull doodles (from mind mostly) and quick legs.. I'll work extra hard this week to catch up.. Anyways, I'll try, because school is trying to get me overexhausted again.
I can definitely relate to this. School and work have been taking up most of my time as well, and I've been slacking in what free time I have.:[ Thankfully one of my classes is only half a semester in length, so in another month I won't be nearly so busy.:teeth:
As far as your skull drawings go, I'm pleased that you are aware of areas where your knowledge is lacking, and taking it upon yourself to fix that. You're a good student.:rendered: Anyway, I have only one major critique for you when it comes to these, and it has to do with the jaws you drew. The lower jaws of these creatures look rather limp, and basically echo the shape of the upper jaw. Take a look at these details of the skull by Ellenberger: link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-57436-2100535764&recno=70&resultset=2&format=F&next=html/nffull.html&bad=error/badfetch.html), link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-57436-2100535764:recno=21:resultset=2:format=F:next=html/nffull.html:bad=error/badfetch.html&entityimageSize=l), link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-57436-2100535764:recno=34:resultset=2:format=F:next=html/nffull.html:bad=error/badfetch.html&entityimageSize=l), link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-57436-2100535764:recno=45:resultset=2:format=F:next=html/nffull.html:bad=error/badfetch.html&entityimageSize=l), link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-57436-2100535764:recno=73:resultset=2:format=F:next=html/nffull.html:bad=error/badfetch.html&entityimageSize=l). You'll notice that the curve and shape of the lower jaw is usually a bit different from that of the upper jaw, rather than a repeat of the same curve.
Of these skulls, the bottom skull, the one with the long pointy jaw with the sharp canines, is by far the best. It's the most interesting and unique of the group. I can just imagine it fleshed out, it's long, whiskered snout sniffing and twitching. It also suffers least from that lower jaw problem that I just mentioned.
P.S. Maybe you wonder why I keep thanking all your posts Moai, I'm not trying to suck up or anything , I just think these posts contain very valuable and detailed information, and you should receive some digital thanks for putting so much time and effort in these posts.
I appreciate your thanks.:rendered: And allow me to thank you, for always posting many of your thoughts and questions along with your art. That makes it much easier for me to give you a helpful critique.:rendered:

Moai

March 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM

Jacob Kobryn

March 6th, 2008, 06:59 PM

How's everyone doing? School keeping you busy? Me too.:blah: I'd love to see some more studies from you guys, though.
And, if you like, I can start posting parts of the muscle lesson as well. I've pretty much been waiting for you to progress more with the skeleton, though. Let me know if you'd like me to start posting the muscles, or if you'd prefer that I wait.

Yep schools been quite busy. My grades came and they were quite awful so my parents have restricted me to virtually no drawing for a little while. I may drop out of this mentorship as I've really had no time.

realitychek

March 7th, 2008, 06:53 AM

Yeah...school's been keeping me busy too, mainly working on art for my AP portfolio. I've got 4 study halls today though, three of which I won't have homework to do in, so, I'll be posting more concepts tonight. edit: Wow, I'm an idiot, completely forgot my dad's camera is still busted. Pics on Sunday night, I promise!
For the muscle lessons, well, I kinda liked the idea about finalizing a concept skeleton then when we finish the muscle lessons, build off of the same concept skeleton.

Micaiah Nelson

March 7th, 2008, 08:55 AM

Unlike the rest of you guys. I have no life. Yes I said it, I have nothing but time on my hands. Every artist dream. So I've been studying every second I'm awake.

If you ave any space I would like to join your class.

realitychek

March 9th, 2008, 10:30 PM

Ok, two more concept skeletons, this time a bit more screwy, not even sure that some aspects could work but what the hell.
First one, with the extra set of limbs, I figured since the regular forelimbs are attached to the rest of the body with muscles, why not another set? (of course, there's some logical explanation, but we haven't started on muscles yet :P )
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/2skeleton.jpg

Second one, not sure that the longer sinuous neck could work with the massively long thoracic vertebrae, but thought it looked cool at the time so I flew with it. Might've been a bit parasaurolophus inspired too, but looking back at their skeletons, I realized the scalpula is set lower on a large rib cage. (sorry I ran out of room on the paper towards the end there too....)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/1skeleton.jpg

and some interesting skeletons I found while cruising around online for inspiration:
(the first few are blurry, the rest are pretty neat though)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiousexpeditions/sets/72157600339587826/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/e_monk/2125578225/in/set-72157601143006241/

Moai

March 17th, 2008, 11:29 AM

Okay, I'm back again. I just finished one of my classes, so now hopefully I'll have more time to put into this. Which is good, since I'm letting two more mentees join.
New mentee #1 is Micaiah Nelson, if Micaiah Nelson still wishes to join. My first question for Micaiah Nelson: are you a guy or a girl? I'm not familiar with the name Micaiah and don't know if it's a guy name or a girl name. Letting me know will help me greatly in my use of pronouns in this thread.:rendered:
New mentee #2 is DantheDragon, who is my classmate in sculpture class at school. She's a cool chick.:P
There's a few other people who have expressed a desire to join, but I'll wait to see how much these new additions increase my workload first.

Anyway, responses.
Jake Kobrin- I'm sorry to hear that, man. Studying for school is a higher priority than being my mentee, though, so go do what you need to do. Please let me know soon if you're going to drop this.:[
Realitychek- You're really starting to learn the skeleton well. However, practically every skeleton you've drawn so far has been from the side view. Practice some front and top views, and even some back and bottom views as well. That'll encourage you to think of these things as three dimensional objects.
Anyway, these skeletons are looking pretty good. The line quality is a little fuzzy on the first one, but you got the bones right and the skull looks really good. As for the second pair of limbs, it is true that the muscle structure would be a little weird, but that's okay. However, ask yourself what the purpose of that extra pair of limbs is. They look kind of pasted on, and seem to be just hanging there without any purpose. Why would this animal need an extra pair of limbs between the front and hind limbs?
The second skeleton looks really good. I like its skull, and the angularity of it. The long neck and the tall spinous processes of its thoracic vertebrae aren't mutually exclusive, but know that tall spines like that usually exist to support massive back and shoulder muscles. Take the bison for example. Huge head, tall vertebrae to support the muscles that hold that huge head up. Of course, this critter's tall spine could have minimal muscle tissue on it, and be more for display. That's always a possibility. If it is indeed heavily muscled, having it hold its neck so close to its hump probably wouldn't be possible, simply because there would be too much muscle mass in that area. Unless, of course, you have its hump and neck combined into a continuous mass when you add flesh, which would give it an oddly neck-less appearance. That might be an interesting design.
Another crit, maybe give the cervical vertebrae just a little more study.

DantheDragon

March 17th, 2008, 03:52 PM

Quick intro:

28 year old female internet addict.

~Kindergarten through a few years of college = drawdrawdraw art student.
~Zomg cool writing job + commute = Bye school! Write write write, no time for draw.
~5 years later: omfg I didn't practice and now I fail at drawing! D:
~Current day: Job - commute = Back to school! Artclassartclassartclass. Okay, I can draw again, but I need to improve dammit!

Assignment #1

Creature images that makes my eyes pop out:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49938&stc=1&d=1163613511
(by xgabo) Hot DAMN *_*
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v52/Vegasmike/arcticdone2.jpg
by VegasMike is awesome too.

Creature image that makes me cringe:
http://danthedragon.deviantart.com/art/DtD-Concept-critter-1-36271275
^ Oh look! It's something I drew 2 years ago before I returned to school! *eye twitch* Looking back I notice I hid the back legs with a tail, since I always have trouble with them.

Current creature drawing:
http://danthedragon.com/art/drawings/creature1.jpg

^ boring and uninspired, but that's unfortunately where I am right now :-/

While drawing this things that came to mind that I feel I need to focus on improving:

~Better understanding of anatomy.
~Back legs/claws, etc.
~More dynamic poses.
~Move out of the side view rut.
~More variety in subject matter.

Feel free to add to my list! I'm here to learn! :steph:
And because I guilted Moai into teaching me because he eats my french fries every class session. *shakes fist*

realitychek

March 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM

Thanks Moai :) Yeah, I'll work with some different angles and views on my next ones. And while I'm here, hi to Micaiah Nelson and DanthetheDragon!

Micaiah Nelson

March 18th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Thanks Realitycheck, and thank you Moai for taking me in.

Assignment 1
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/2/24/BahamutX%26X-2whole.jpghttp://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/3/3d/BahamutRetsu.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/d/d1/Omegaweaponffxx2vt8.jpg
Reading my header this much should be expected. I love the abstract work of these dragons.

I also love the fussion between man and animals.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/deceptant10/valkerie2_devenecia.jpg
Not much on creature but the horns really raises the bar.
Charlie Wens (http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1548426&postcount=1) post of classic creatures.

The japanese demons from Okami.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u293/tsuki_uta/Okami/okami017.jpg

Thats all I have for now. You pronoune my name Ma-Ki-Ya. Its hebrew, though I'm not hebrew. I'm 20 and havent gone to college yet. I spend majority of my time studying art. Theres a lot to read and I need to catch up I will post later tonight. I'm nocturnal. I'm a guy. Heres me at the rev getting a really nice view/sketch of the models.

Moai

March 18th, 2008, 12:09 PM

DantheDragon- Hi, Danielle! Welcome to the thread. You like large, undead behemoth creatures, don't you?:P I'm looking forward to some more french fries tomorrow. In the meantime, post some more work, dammit!
Micaiah Nelson- Welcome, dude. I'm pretty sure I recognize you from the workshop. Did you hang out at the Hurricane? I was the skinny blond guy with the messy ponytail and the fuzzy chin.
Anyway, cool images. The first and third ones are Bahamut and Omega Weapon from FF10, right? I'm not sure about the second one. Anyway, since you like dragons, the Breath of Fire games have some neat dragon designs. Here's some links:

http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_wyvern.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_tyrant.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_serpent.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_kaiser.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_grasswyr.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof4/BoF4_astralauarsketch.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof5/dva.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof5/BoF5_odjnryu.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof5/BoF5_odjn.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof5/BoF5_chetyre.jpg
http://www.dragon-tear.net/images/bof5/BoF5_elyonodjn.jpg
And the source of all these images: http://www.dragon-tear.net/bof5/?it=gallery&off=60
And just in case you haven't seen it yet, Nike Corriero's "Draw a dragon" thread in the community activities section: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42312

Looking forward to some work from both of you!

Jacob Kobryn

March 18th, 2008, 02:56 PM

Micaiah Nelson: I think I met you at the EMP dude.

Because of school stuff, my parents took away my art stuff for a week (which sucks as my birthday's on Friday) so yeah... you definately won't be seeing anything from me any time soon. :(

Moai

March 27th, 2008, 03:55 PM

Mentees new and old, let's see some more studies and concepts!
Jake Kobrin, if you see yourself as being unable to put in the necessary amount of time for this for the foreseeable future, please let me know and I will drop you from the thread. I'm sorry, man, but you gotta get your school work in order, and for a young 'un like you, school takes priority over this.

Jacob Kobryn

March 27th, 2008, 07:03 PM

I suppose you're right. :(
I hate to lose this resource but.... drop me. :(

Moai

April 3rd, 2008, 06:30 PM

Jake Kobrin- It is with a heavy heart that I remove you from the list of mentees. I'm sorry, man.:( Good luck with school, art, and life.

Okay, so I talked to DantheDragon at school (we share a class, after all), so I know why she hasn't posted any work. But, where are the rest of you? I'm especially curious about you, Micaiah Nelson, because I haven't seen any of your work yet, and also because you said that you have no life besides studying art and you've been a mentee for a couple weeks but not posted anything. Is everything okay? I'd just like an update on where everyone is at this point, and I'd of course like to see any new work that anyone's done.
That's all.

Micaiah Nelson

April 3rd, 2008, 10:48 PM

Hey dont get me wrong. I don't have a life! So I spend majority of my time studying art. But I found it hard because I'm not really organized. I don't really commit to a specific study by daily basis. Just did a lot of everything. But a few days ago I decided to schedule my studies. Thursdays are my animal and creatures studies friday I will post. Weekends are my character/creatures days. Monday or Tuesday I will post my creatures. I still read through the thread. I've done your studies aswell as picked up a W. Ellenbergers book. I havent gotten to the movement yet, nor done any anatomy in this book( I was planning on going through that with you). I'm first doing all the herbivores (cause I've read from your post that most of them are similiar). Once I got that idea down I'll move on to the Carnivores. But don't wory I'll post what I got tommorow.

Noë

April 4th, 2008, 01:56 AM

Okay! :) I'm absolutely ashamed of myself, and I'll better, I promise..
Just got through my last test week, so for now it's just studying for my final exams, and since I know most of the theory already, it should be a lot less busy.
Anyways I've still been a huge slacker.. Gonna get right into some new studies next monday, and I'm gonna put it in my schedule as well.

See you monday/ tuesday!
Love, and sorry,
Marleen.

Micaiah Nelson

April 4th, 2008, 10:38 PM

So I'm focusing herbivores herbivores before I do the carnivores. I think that will be the best way for me to memorize this stuff.
Right now I completely forgot all my questions so I'll just post for now...

Moai

April 8th, 2008, 01:34 PM

Noe- No need to be ashamed! I just want to know that you're still working hard. Looking forward to your next post.
Micaiah Nelson- Sorry for the slight delay in this critique, man. Anyway, it's good to know that you're so organized in your studies. Judging from the rather sizable dump of images that you posted, your study schedule is working well for you. All right, my critique:
The studies in the first image look pretty good. I want you to try to pay special attention to proportions, angles, and curves when you study, though, as there are small errors in all three of those in this image. For proportional errors, there are some issues with the leg studies, both in comparison to the original image (the limb segments are longer than in the original image), and in comparison to each other (the lengths of the segments aren't consistent across the different views; though I admit they aren't completely consistent in the original image either). While proportions aren't so important in this study, since its based on just a generalized skeleton and not a specific animal, it's always a good habit to carefully measure your proportions. As far as errors in the angles of lines go, the top jaw of the 3/4 front view of the generic skull has a different angle than in the original image. In the original, it angles ever so slightly upwards in comparison to the bottom of the lower jaw, but in your image it angles downwards. As far as errors in rendering curves goes, in the 3/4 back view of the skull you made the line of the bottom of the lower jaw concave, when it is actually slightly convex on the original image. Again, accuracy isn't extremely important with these particular studies, since they're not of an actual animal, but drawing the correct angles and curves is very important when you do studies of specific animals.
For the second image, the studies of the generic ribcage/spinal column and the generic hips are looking pretty accurate. There are some minor errors in proportion and angles, but it's not a huge deal. The top view of the horse looks excellent. The top view of the hips also looks good, but the shape of the ilia (that's plural for ilium, don'tcha know) is a bit inaccurate. Again, just some slight differences in the angles and curvatures of lines.
In the next image, the front view of the horse looks awesome. Nothing to critique there. The back view also looks good, but the joints of the legs aren't quite level with each other. The differences are only very slight, but they still affect the sense of balance and symmetry. Where did the side view of the skeleton come from? I don't recognize it from Ellenberger. Some other source, or did you just make up the pose yourself and reference Ellenberger for the details? Anyway, the shape of the pubis and the placement of where the top part of the femur meets the hip are a little off. The femur itself is also a bit too small. I also think that the arch of the neck may be a little too high and birdlike. The skull, particularly the lower jaw, is inaccurate and needs to be observed better.
For the next image, the side view of the cow skeleton looks great. It has a nice angular quality. The errors are only slight, and are as follows: the angle of the top of the scapula is slightly off, the ribs are a bit more curvaceous than how you drew them, and the femurs are a bit larger and more robust. You have a tendency to reduce the femurs; something to keep an eye on. The top view of the skull is a bit compressed but otherwise looks fine. You need to recheck the curves and proportions of the side view of the skull. The eye socket needs to be larger, and you completely missed the nice boat-like curve of the lower jaw, plus a few other small inaccuracies. You captured the curve of the jaw nicely in the 3/4 view, though.
For the front view of the next image, there are some slight things to fix. Increasing the width of the front of the jaws slightly would give a better sense of foreshortening. Making the hooves a bit bigger and changing the angles of some of the lines would place them more firmly on the ground. For the back view, similar to the back view of the horse, not making the joint and the bottom of the feet level to each other hinders the sense of balance and symmetry. The whole back view feels a bit narrow, also.
I hope that helps. I'm looking forward to your next batch of studies.:rendered:

DantheDragon

April 10th, 2008, 01:04 AM

Sorry for the delay. Finally got a slight reprieve from work. Here's the sketches I've been doing. I'm working on memorizing the bones and how they are shaped differently (but still present) in different animals.

Moai

April 12th, 2008, 01:26 AM

DantheDragon- Nice to see you posting, Danielle! Those are some very nice-looking studies. So nice, in fact, that I'm going to have to get nitpicky if I am to have any crits at all. So nitpick I will. For the horse, the scapula is slightly off. It has more of a wavy, flimsy look to it than it does in the reference. The curvature of the lion's scapula could also use some slight modification. The feet are somewhat small on the hippo. The sea lion and dolphin look fine. Isn't it amazing how the same set of arm bones has been so modified in those species? I also find it interesting how the dolphin has evolved so many extra segments in its "fingers."
One last critique. "Stupidiy" is spelled wrong.:P See you on Monday!

Noe and realitychek, I'm still looking forward to some more work from you!

Noë

April 17th, 2008, 03:41 PM

Assignment 02 - Part 6 Two studies to get back into this
So after finally getting through all my schoolexams okay, there's more time to draw, and ofcourse prepare for the final exams.
Thanks for being so patient with me Cory, Guess I didn't draw an animal skeleton in more than two months! So I'll try to make up for that..
349577 349576

Started today with 1,5 hour for the dog skeleton, and 0,5 hour for the horse parts. I had a bad time with the dog skull, finally just gave in to the bad proportions on that part.
After doing some more studies I'll get into the concept assignment seriously this time..

Oh and welcome DantheDragon and Micaiah Nelson!
Love
Marleen.

Moai

April 23rd, 2008, 11:23 AM

Those look good, Noe. I'm at school, so I have no time to crit at the moment, but I will soon.

Edit: Noe's Critique, April 25th
I'm so sorry for the delay with this critique, Marleen. I'm moving at the beginning of next week, so I've been pretty busy.
Anyway, I'm looking at your dog skeleton and the original by Ellenberger and I'm not seeing many errors. True, the proportions on the skull are slightly off (the eye sockets are too big), but since we're more interested in committing the general shapes of the bones to memory so we can draw from that knowledge when inventing creatures, meticulous accuracy in every small feature isn't so important. What's more important is symmetry. The two halves of the dog's skull are somewhat uneven. Looking at Ellenberger, I just noticed now that this was the case in the original image as well, so now I'm not so sure what to tell you. Just be careful of asymmetry, I guess.
For the horse, did you have a reference image? The neck looks somewhat short, and the front limb looks somewhat small (the ulna/radius segment, according to the side view by Ellenberger, is about the same length as the skull). The skull itself looks good.
Good work.:rendered:

***

REALITYCHEK!!!!!! Where are you?

realitychek

April 28th, 2008, 05:51 PM

sorry, just finished up my AP portfolio a little while ago, and the other teachers have been loading it on pretty good, but I've got a few concept skeletons I'm working on now, should be finished up tomorrow
edit: Ok, here's two of the same skeleton, one from the side, one from the front....definitely need to work on different viewpoints more.... 358767

Jacob Kobryn

April 28th, 2008, 07:04 PM

Hey Moai. I know I'm not your mentee but I'm still following this thread for info. Maybe you can talk a bit about muscles now?

Me,Myself & Me again

April 29th, 2008, 01:46 PM

Bump * for the muscle
:)

Moai

May 2nd, 2008, 11:24 PM

realitychek- Boy, am I glad to see you posting again.:rendered: I really didn't want to have to bump off the last of my original mentees. Plus, that's a hot creature skeleton you posted. I'm loving its rabbit-like feet and the little horn on its head. I'm actually quite pleased with the way you handled the front view. The skull is a tad flat, and the phalanges of the front feet look a little odd, and you should probably reexamine the shape of the scapula from the front view, but all in all it's looking really good. These drawings show me that you've really learned the skeleton and are able to apply that knowledge. So, I encourage you to choose one of those concept skeletons you're drawing and use that for your final concept skeleton assignment. We really need to move on to other aspects of creature anatomy and design.:rendered:
Some more crits: In the side view, the radius and ulna look extremely thin. Perhaps beef them up slightly. The tarsal area also looks somewhat odd; consult some reference on that. But, like I said, overall very good work.
Jake Kobrin- As soon as one of the mentees posts their concept skeleton, I will get to work on posting the muscle info. But not before then; I don't want to get ahead of my mentees. I'm getting a bit impatient too.:rendered:
Me,Myself, and Me Again- Ditto for Jake.

Noë

May 3rd, 2008, 01:07 PM

Hi Moai,

I'm at my boyfriends place currently, and I can't get his scanner to work. I just went to my home for a night, and quickly scanned my new sketchbook pages, but there is some more in my small sketchbook which I left here.
Thanks for the critique :) I see what you mean about the horse's proportions being off.. I guess the book I drew that one from just isn't very good.. I've had bad proportions in most of my other drawings from that book, and after checking the errors with the example drawings in there, I think these book drawings already have somewhat bad proportions. I might have worsened the bad proportions sometimes. I'll get a picture of that horse example when I'm back home to check. Meanwhile I'm studying from prints of the Ellenberger book, and trying to get a crack at the concept assignment. Also when I have some money (in about a month), I'm getting a good animal anatomy book.

Assignment 02 - part 7: some horse studies
361055 361056
In these sketches I tried to fit a horse skeleton in a contour drawing of a galloping horse. I'd especially like all crits on the believability of the right horse skeleton, because I'd like to use that one on a more finished piece.

Assignment 03 - part 2: three loose concept skeletons
361057 361058
I did these quite quickly and roughly.. I'm not happy with them, especially the left ones don't work for me at all. I'm thinking the right one might be a possibility for the finished concept skeleton, but It'll need tweaking. All ideas on how to get a concept skeleton working with the shapes and the contour, would be very much appreciated.. :bashful:

Love,
Marleen.

P.S. Realitychek; I'm liking that concept skeleton a lot :) nice!

realitychek

May 4th, 2008, 07:09 PM

Alright, I'll pick one of the skeletons I've done and work on all the different views for the final concept skeleton assignment.
Thanks Marleen :)

Moai

May 7th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Noe- Thanks for all those images and questions. I'll get back to you with a proper critique and answer your questions as good as I can tomorrow morning (in a little over twelve hours after this post).

Edit: So, tomorrow morning has come, and now I will critique Noe.:rendered:
For the horse in motion studies, the outlines and proportions generally look correct. The first one looks slightly short-necked, though, and its front legs look just a hair too long, especially the one farther away from us. In the second one, the proportions look better (though they were still good in the first one), but there is a glaring problem in its hind leg. Its tibia and fibula are so extended that they almost make a straight line with the femur. I'm fairly certain that horses can't (or just don't) bend their legs like this, and even if they do it still looks awkward for the femur and tibia to be extended so straight and the ankle and foot to flexed at a different angle. The cause of this problem is that you put the hip joint, where the head of the femur articulates with the pelvis, too far forward, and so there isn't enough room for the femur. The hip joint needs to be moved back closer to the horse's rump.
For the second image, first of all kudos for attempting a challenging pose like this. It looks good, but there are some errors, and most if not all of them have to do with foreshortening. What I notice most immediately is that we're viewing the pelvis from a more or less 3/4 angle, but you drew the ilium as if we were viewing it from the side. The hip is an exceptionally difficult form to imagine at different views (I was struggling with it myself just a few days ago), so if at all possible you'll probably want to find a mounted horse skeleton to draw from. Or, failing that, a decent picture of a horse skeleton at this angle. The hind left limb has a similar problem. We're viewing it at a 3/4 angle, more or less, but it seems to be twisting inwards. The front left limb looks good. The right front limb, like the left hind limb, seems to be twisted too much, and the unla/radius segment of the limb should also appear a bit shorter, to suggest foreshortening. The rest looks pretty good to me, but you may want to ask the opinion of someone with more experience at drawing horses.
I will return in a bit to critique your concept skeletons.

Noë

May 14th, 2008, 08:21 AM

Thanks for the crits on the skeletons! I definitely learned from that. The thing with drawing the hip at a 3/4 angle was the most difficult part for me indeed, because I just didn't know how. I see what I can change though, and will :)

Assignment 03 - Part 3:I totally forgot to post these: I know it's not much, but I like the imagined skeletons on the lower left page. I'm just not sure wether it would be possible to design the vertebrae like I did on the right one?

368452 368453

I'm busy with final exam preparations, but gonna stop slacking and get some quality skeleton design time in there ^^ ;)
Love
Marleen.

Moai

May 15th, 2008, 02:41 PM

Noe, thank you for your patience and for not complaining about me taking forever to critique your concept skeletons. I'm very sorry for the delay. It's the end of the semester at my school, so I've been really busy with that. At the moment, I am getting ready to go to work, so I will critique these and answer your questions tonight. What I will say now is that I really like the lower right skeleton with the weird vertebrae.:rendered:
*placeholder for critique*

So now, finally, my critique on your concept skeletons.:rendered:
1st image, post #169: These are the ones that you say don't work for you at all. I think partly the reason for that is that they aren't very original or imaginative designs. They're basically the skeletons of an elephant and a cat with a few minor alterations. Here's some ways that you might have made those designs more interesting. The shortened legs and the longer, thicker tail of the elephant-type skeleton suggest an amphibious nature to me, like a hippo perhaps. These traits could have been pushed even further, and the shape of the torso modified (lengthened, maybe) to make it less similar to a real elephant. The tusk shape could also have been changed, also to differentiate it from a real elephant.
For the cat-type skeleton, I see only a few small alterations from a real feline skeleton. These could all be pushed to make the design more original and interesting. On the head, you gave it large fangs, large flares of bone on the back end of the mandible, and a prominent cranial crest extending backwards from the end of the skull. The flares of bone and the crest in particular would make for an interesting and original design. You also gave it quite a long tail, which works good with this design because it counters the compact design. As for not design related critiques, the hips and rear leg of this skeleton are weakly drawn.
2nd Image, post #169: A problem with this one, like the two skeletons before it, is that it looks like it was just thrown down on the page. It's okay to work quickly and roughly, as you say you did, if you still use good drawing practices like using an underdrawing to lay down the shapes first and working from general to specific. It doesn't look like you did that here. As a result, the individual pieces really don't look like part of a greater whole. I'm going to do a bit of a draw-over in photoshop to show how this might be improved.

Edit: Okay, so now I'm finishing this critique.
Here, I explored a possible way that this design could be improved, explaining my method and design choices. I hope these images help. Remember, this is just one possible re-imagining of this design.
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Onto your other images:
Ist image, post #172:
I like the imagined skeletons on the lower left page. I'm just not sure wether it would be possible to design the vertebrae like I did on the right one?
I like these skeletons too. The topmost one on this image is kind of boring, and the one on the right is unfinished so I won't even bother critiquing it, but the bottom two are good, especially the one on the lower right.
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This creature has a very clear personality to me. The way it has its head to the ground like it's rooting for food tell me that its a creature that minds its own business, but its big pointy snout tells me also that it is a very assertive creature when other creatures don't mind their business, and has no problem defending itself. The strong arch of its body and the projections radiating out from that arch also suggest a strong defense. The big upturned snout is a good design choice for two reasons. For one, its curvature contrasts with the main curvature of the body, making it a focal point of the creature design. Secondly, it's also a functional design feature because it looks like an efficient tool for rooting around in the underbrush. So, your design choices work well on an abstract level and on a more functional level. Good job!
As for your question about the vertebrae, it would be strange to have them projecting out like that, but I think that's a good thing. It would probably be more likely that those defensive spikes wouldn't be a part of the vertebrae, but rather separate growths, like the big plates on a Stegosaurus skeleton (http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/Units/320Ornithischia/Images/Stegosaurus3.gif). However, it's more original to have them growing right out of the vertebrae, and I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, so I think it's fine. This skeleton is a very good candidate for your concept skeleton, I think.
2nd image, post #172: I guess I'll just go through these from top to bottom. I like the topmost skull. It has a nice, blocky, rhinoceros-like feel to it. The second skull from the top is also fairly interesting, though I don't like it as much as the first skull. It has a problem, though, and I'll illustrate that problem pictorially, since it'll be easier to show that way.
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The blue represents the main thrust of the image. The way you have the creatures tusk bent down a bit diverts this energy, represented by the red. The design would be have been stronger had the tusk followed the main thrust of energy.
Continuing on, the right middle skull might be too cow-like, but the way its nostrils are up higher on its head adds a bit of interest. Nice job practicing drawing skulls from different angles. For the left middle skull, like in the pelvis of your horse drawing, I'm seeing some conflicts of perspective. The nasal opening and the front end of the jaws look like we're seeing them from sort of a 3/4 view, but the rest of the skull and mandible look more like we're sing them from a side view. Like pretty much all of these skulls and skeletons, it would have benefited a lot from a more solid and structural underdrawing. I quickly drew yet another image to illustrate this point.
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First, I sketched in a simple block shape that is more or less the same general shape as this skull. Then I refined this by adding smaller blocks for the zygomatic arches and a sphere for the brain case. I'm just using very simple shapes that are easier to imagine in three dimensions, and thus draw from different views. With these shapes as a base, you can then carve away at them and wrap lines around them to get a more refined skull. Like the loose scribbles I did for your other skeleton, this is another good way to set up a solid base onto which you can add details and more refined forms.
Again, I like the next skull down (the skull from the concept skeleton that I liked so much). Even without the body, it has a good gesture with nice swooping lines. The bottom skull is interesting. That's an unusual crest/horn thing it has. I like the idea of an odd horn like that, but I'm not sure that I like this particular drawing. If you like this skull, it might be a good idea to draw a number of variations on it to find a shape that works just right. A problem with this skull--with all of these skulls, actually, but especially with this one--is that it is quite flat, without much sense of form. All I can do is say again to lay out a more structural underdrawing before coming in with your finished outline and details.
So I think this critique is finally done.:rendered: I really hope this helps. Can't wait to see what you draw next!

Moai

May 18th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Calling Micaiah Nelson! Where are you, Micaiah?

Noë

May 20th, 2008, 06:08 PM

Moai - THANKS so much for that amazing crit post.. It's the best crit I - ever - received. Great stuff.. Oh and don't thank me for not complaining about you :P that's stupid.. I'm the lazy mentee, complain about me! ;)

I made some thumbnails, trying to keep in mind the things you said. I tried to get a nice curve going on the spine mostly, and use repeating shapes and just my intuition for putting some bodyparts on. I noticed I really like the shapes of dinosaurs and dinosaur likes, because of the tail extending from the body in a fluid motion.. I kinda miss that in regular animal skeletons.
Also I have a question: I just assumed we're supposed to design a regular land mammal skeleton. But you never stated that anywhere, is it okay to maybe do something more lizard like, or maybe a biped or a bird?

So anyways, here are the thumbnails, I numbered them so it's easier to discuss them individually:

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Some comments:
1 - looks quite much like a regular rhino skeleton I think
3 - I feel that putting the pelvis and hind legs so low, just doesn't work?
6 - looks (to me) pretty dinosaury?
8 - there's something I like about this one.. I think the skull and the sacrum? But it doesn't feel great..

So yeah, I'm thinking of going for this one (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=371189&d=1211081132) for my concept skeleton, but I would like to work out one or two other concept skeleton side views, kinda like you did on this one (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=371180&d=1211080110) (damn that was a nice image btw :)).

Okay, enough babbling.. I have no exam tomorrow so I'm gonna practice chemistry, art history, and do skeleton drawings! ^^

Love
Marleen

Moai

May 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Okay, my customary period of procrastination is up, so I guess it's time to critique those skeletons, Noe.:rendered:
I noticed I really like the shapes of dinosaurs and dinosaur likes, because of the tail extending from the body in a fluid motion.. I kinda miss that in regular animal skeletons.
Also I have a question: I just assumed we're supposed to design a regular land mammal skeleton. But you never stated that anywhere, is it okay to maybe do something more lizard like, or maybe a biped or a bird?
As long as it is made of bones, you can draw it. I've been thinking about where this thread is going and how to organize future lessons, and now I realize that I should have done an overview of different kinds of skeletons many months ago, when I first put the skeleton information up. I was planning on doing that later, as we looked at different families and orders of animals, but I now realize that right at the beginning of the skeleton lesson would have been a better place for it. Perhaps I'll get started on that after doing this critique.
So, let's tackle these skeletons.
#1- It is indeed highly reminiscent of a rhinoceros skeleton, but I like it. It has a nice curve to its spine, a dynamic shape to its skull, and I like the bent shapes of its legs. If you take care to make the details dissimilar from a rhino skeleton, especially in the skull, I think you could have a nice creature design there.
#2- I like this skeleton as well. There's a nice overall gesture and slope to its design. Its long metacarpals are a nice touch as well. Its hind legs seem too straight, though. The skull has a lizard-like quality that I like.
#3- "I feel that putting the pelvis and hind legs so low, just doesn't work?"
On the contrary. This is probably my favorite skeleton of all of these. It has a nice shape and proportions, and a very interestingly shaped head. I'd love to see that head shape refined, with features and details added to it. Having the hind legs and pelvis so small and low automatically makes the design interesting and unique, and gives the creature an unusual gait and personality.
There is a group of extinct animals related to horse and rhinos that had a somewhat similar design: the chalicotheres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalicothere). This is an especially nice image of a chalicothere: link (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Moropus.jpg).
#4- This beast is sort of the opposite of the last one, with long hind legs and short front legs. That also gives an interesting shape and slope to the body. The skull isn't working that well for me. It echoes the shape of the body nicely, and I can see it being refined into a really neat skull, with its knob-like horns and its big chin, but I don't know...something just isn't working here. Maybe having the spine attach more to the back of the skull and less to the underside would make it go with the flow of the body more than it is now. For most animals, the spine connects to the back of the skull anyway; humans are the only animals I can think of where the spine attaches squarely on the underside of the skull.
#5- The somewhat curvy head is nice, and the tall vertebral spines could be used to make an interesting design, but as it is this one is rather plain and boring.
#6- Yes, quite dinosaur-like. Though, to me, it seems more like a mammal skeleton molded into a more dinosaur-like shape than an actual dinosaur skeleton, at least in some respects. Its legs, pelvis, and neck, for example, are very mammalian. The single nasal opening at the front of the skull is also mammalian; dinosaurs tend to have two separate nostril openings on the sides of the skull. I'll get to work on posting some non-mammal skeleton info, if you're interested in going that direction. Reptile skeletons are very interesting and beautiful, but they're more difficult than mammal skeletons. They are more complex than mammal skeletons, with more bones, and there are fewer quality resources for researching them. It'll take me a bit to do the necessary research before presenting that info.
7- Looks kind of like a cross between a dog and a sheep. Not very interesting.
8- there's something I like about this one.. I think the skull and the sacrum? But it doesn't feel great..
The skull and the sacrum are nice on this one. The skull has an interesting shape, with that small horn/bump above its snout, and the sacrum is very tall and deep. So far, I've yet to see the sacrum emphasized in a creature design, so it might turn out very interesting if you pushed this sacrum even further and gave it tall spines and ridges or something. But yeah, the overall skeleton has a somewhat lumpy, inelegant feel to it. Then again, elegance is not always the goal in creature design.
In addition to your numbered ones, many of those light sketches caught my eye as well. To the left of #1, for example, you have a critter with a heavy, round skull, long metacarpals, and apparently no pelvis or hind legs, with its tail and lower body resting on the ground. That has the potential to be an absolutely fascinating skeleton. Above #s 4 and 5, you have another dinosaur-like skeleton that is potentially very neat. The way you sketched it in gave it a very thick and heavy tail, which is what caught my eye about this sketch. If you can, check out the latest (around here, anyways) edition of ImagineFX, which has several articles about drawing and painting dinosaurs. Inside, one of the artists from Weta (a special effects/concept art company in New Zealand, which did the effects and designs for Lord of the Rings and King Kong) shows his process of designing a new dinosaur species. The creature he designs also has a very thick and club-like tail. It's a very cool creature design and article, so you should check it out.
Below #3, you have another reptilian-looking concept. It's long, low skull and the way it is somewhat continuous with the body gives it a sly, cunning look. There is also an interesting contradiction on this design. It's tail is long and drags on the ground, suggesting that this is not a very energetic creature. However, the way you sketched in its hind legs suggests very long metatarsals, implying that this creature can spring and run around with some speed if it wants to. So, you have a creature that slowly stalks its prey until it gets close enough, and then it quickly leaps for the kill. I also imagine its front legs to be rather heavily built, with large claws, to help do away with its prey. Potentially a very cool design here.

So now I'll go answer your questions about anatomy books, and get to work on a post detailing the diversity of skeletons in the animal kingdom.

Moai

May 27th, 2008, 03:41 PM

A Diversity of Skeletons
Part One: Mammals

I should have done this a lot sooner. Originally, I was planning on structuring later lessons in a more zoological approach, first going over one type of animal and then moving on to another, and I was planning on covering this information then. I will still do that, but to a much lesser extent, as I am now planning on structuring later lessons according to "themes," such as armored animals, running animals, horns and tusks, etc. This will just be an overview, to be expanded on in future lessons. Enjoy.

Be sure to explore those websites that I got the images from. Some of them are quite good, with a lot of resources.
(If any of these images belong to you and you don't want them posted, just let me know and I will remove them.)

Armadillos and Glyptodonts
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Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/newsletter/February-2007/newsletter-index.html
Armadillos tend to have long, tapered skulls with no incisors or canines, and the molars specialized for chewing on insects. The nasal opening is at the tip of the snout. The legs are fairly short and stocky, with large claws for digging. The tail is fairly thick, and its length varies. The pelvis and shoulder blades have a distinct shape. The skeleton is overlaid by scutes, or little scale-like pieces of bone, with a covering of horn, arranged in plates, bands, and rings.
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Image from Wikipedia.
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/fossil-glyptodont.html
Glyptodonts are closely related to armadillos, and are extinct. They are very large, massive, rounded animals. The skull is very deep and blocky, with an extraordinarily heavy mandible, large wings of bone descending from the cheekbones (serving as muscle attachments), and a very open eye socket. The claws are more hoof-like than in armadillos. The tail sometimes ends in a club.

Sloths and Ground Sloths
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Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
Modern tree sloths have small, rounded skulls, and like their relatives the armadillos, they have no canines or incisors. They have a long body and rib cage, long limbs, only two or three fingers or toes at the end of each limb, and long curved claws. No tail.
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Image from Wikipedia.
Extinct ground sloths are similar to modern sloths, but are much more massive and heavily built, with shorter and much more robust limbs, a thick tail, a longer head, and more toes on the feet. Note the iliac crests on the pelvis.

Anteaters
Link to anteater skeleton on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14405058@N08/2168829901/
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Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.500.501
The anteater's skull is extremely elongated and tapered, with the nose on the tip of the snout, and apparently no zygomatic arch. Like its relatives, the sloths and armadillos, the anteater's limbs are strong and end in claws. The claws on the front limbs are often so large that the anteater has to walk on its knuckles or on the sides of its hands.

Pangolins
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Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
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Source for above two images: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.496
Pangolins are not closely related to armadillos and anteaters, but look similar due to shared adaptations for eating insects. Pangolin armor is made of fused hairs, not bits of bone like in armadillos, so it is not part of the skeleton. The sternum extends out beyond the back of the ribcage; I don't know the purpose of this.

Moles
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Image source: http://www.pelletlab.com/p_s_owl_pellet1.shtml
A burrowing animal, the mole's skeleton looks rather bent and squashed. Its front limbs into short, broad shovels.

Hedgehogs
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Image source: http://www.pro-igel.de/english/biology.html
The spine is strongly arched. Though a very small animal, the skull looks rather fearsome, easily able to take care of invertebrate prey.

Horses
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Image source: http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-47583-1900191613&recno=13&next=html/nfbrief.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&entitytoprecno=13&entitycurrecno=13&resultset=2&numrecs=12&format=B&fmtclass=gallery&entityScanReferral=FALSE
I'm just going all over the place with these animals, aren't I? Anyway, the horse is obviously adapted for running and eating plants. A tall, powerful animal. Backbone is straight and inflexible.

Tapirs
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Image from Wikipedia.
The tapir is related to the horse, but shorter and stockier, and with more hooves on its feet. Its nasal opening is high on the skull, which is common on trunked animals.

Rhinos
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/newsletter/sept2006/newsletter-index.html
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Image source: http://www.boneroom.com/casts/bcloneherbivore.html
The body of a rhinoceros is very large and barrel-shaped, with a large ribcage. Its legs are short and stout, with the front legs straight and pillar like and the hind legs more bent. The tall thoracic vertebrae serve as muscle attachments for holding up that huge head. The head is large and robust, with an open eye socket. The overhanging lump of bone on the snout supports both the horn(s) above it (the horns are made of fused hair, not bone), and also serves as an attachment for prehensile lips.

Brontotheres
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Image source:http://geology.cwru.edu/~huwig/catalog/cenozoic.html
Brontotheres are quite similar to rhinos, but perhaps a bit taller, with a larger hump, and with two bony lumps side by side (like the prongs of a slingshot) on the snout instead of hairy horns. The shape and size of these slingshot horns varied from species to species. Sadly, these amazing animals went extinct many millions of years ago.

Chalicotheres
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Image from Wikipedia.
I was just telling Noe about these! Related to horses, tapirs, and rhinos, chalicotheres have short hind legs and longer forelegs ending in claws. Kind of like a horse crossed with a ground sloth.

Pigs
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Image source: http://faculty.cns.uni.edu/~rothm/roth.htm
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Image source: http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/pigdom.htm
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Image source: http://www.mammalogy.org/mil_images/MSLArtiodactyla.htm
Pigs are built similarly to tapirs, and are short and stocky. The skull is triangular, though its exact shape varies from species to species, and from individual to individual. Many species have prominent tusks.

Hippos
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Image source: http://laelaps.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/carnivorous-hippos/
Related to pigs, hippos have massive, barrel-shaped bodies, short stocky legs, and a huge square head with tusks.

Ruminants
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Image source: http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-45163-209076847&recno=73&next=html/nfbrief.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&entitytoprecno=73&entitycurrecno=73&resultset=2&numrecs=12&format=B&fmtclass=gallery&entityScanReferral=FALSE&sessionid=01-45163-209076847
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Image source: http://www.museumofosteology.org/
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Image source: http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/12300/12383/skeletoncow_12383.htm
Ruminants include deer, giraffes, cows, antelopes, goats, sheep, and a number of other similar animals. They are very typical mammalian herbivores. Most, if not all, have two hooves per foot. They usually have no canine teeth, no upper incisors (just a rough plate of bone), and many have either permanent horns or temporary antlers.

To be continued.

Moai

May 28th, 2008, 01:41 PM

Mammals, Continued

Whales
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Image from Wikipedia
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Image source: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/l.light/Dolphin%20Anatomy.htm
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Bottle-Nosed_Dolphin.html
The toothed whales include dolphins, porpoises, belugas, narwhals, beaked whales, and sperm whales. They have very long, beak-like jaws with numerous identical teeth (unusual for mammals). The nostrils are high on the forehead, and the cranium is rather unusually shaped (probably to support the fatty "melon" organs that most toothed whales have on their forehead to aid in echolocation). The neck is very short, often with fused vertebrae. The scapula and front limbs are short and broad, with many "extra" phalanges. The sternum is typically very small. There are no hind limbs, and the pelvic bones are extremely tiny and buried in flesh.
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Image from Wikipedia.
Baleen whales typically have flatter and more arc-shaped skulls than toothed whales. The jaws are long arches of bone with no teeth. The rest of the skeleton is very similar to toothed whales.
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Image source: http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/whales/evolution_of_whales/
The evolution of whales is well documented in the fossil record. They evolved from slender land animals that looked like oversized shrews, into semiaquatic animals that looked like killer otter/crocodiles, gradually becoming more adapted to a fully aquatic existence. There are many interesting skeletons and creature designs in this evolutionary sequence.

Carnivorans
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Source of above images: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Animals/Mammals/Carnivores/Anatomy/Skeletal-Structure/index.html
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Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
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Image source: http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~shmalehorn/images/opossum/index.htm
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Image from skullsunlimited.com.
For some reason, after attaching that last image, all the other attached images in this post disappeared. So, I had to find those websites and attach them again, and that really fucking pissed me off.:angry:
Anyways, the carnivorans are a large and diverse group that includes the vast majority of all meat-eating land mammals. The carnivorans include canines, felines, bears, raccoons, weasels, badgers, wolverines, skunks, pandas, hyenas, mongooses, civets, otters, and even seals, sea lions, and walruses (to be detailed next). Though they very greatly in size and shape, all carnivoran skeletons have similar features on the skull and body.

Pinnipeds
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Image source: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Animals/Mammals/Seals-and-Sea-Lions/Anatomy/Skeletons/index.html
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Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/bagful/bagful3.htm
The pinnipeds include the "true" seals, the eared seals (also known as sea lions), and the bizarre walrus. Closely related to dogs, bears, and the other carnivorans, their skulls show many of the same features. Their bodies are rounded and streamlined, and their limbs are reduced. Similarly to whales, the front limbs and scapulae of pinnipeds have become very broad.

Bats
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Image source: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/eutheria/chiromm.html
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Image source: http://courses.washington.edu/chordate/453photos/skeleton_photos/amniote_skeleton_photos2.htm
Bats are the only mammals capable of powered flight. The ribcage, scapulae, and clavicles are arranged in a somewhat human-like fashion. The limb bones are long and very straight, with the ulnas and fibulas being quite reduced. The hind legs look almost more like a child's drawing of animal legs than actual animal legs. The metacarpals and fingers (except for the "thumb") are all greatly elongated for supporting the flight membranes.

Dinocerata
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Image source: http://www.copyrightexpired.com/earlyimage/bones/previews_cenozoic.htm
Be sure to check out the source site for this image. It's a great gallery of extinct animal skeletons. Anyway, the Dinocerata were large, strange, horned nimals, sometimes with three pairs of knob-like horns on their heads. Their skulls have a strange concave profile, and they sport fang-like tusks. The fairly well-known Uintatherium was a Dionceratid.

Tenrecs
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Image source: http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Hemicentetes_semispinosus/body/
Tenrecs are a group of shrew-like, hedgehog-like, otter-like, and even Pokemon (http://photos.wildmadagascar.org/images/1101-0076.shtml)-like mammals from Madagascar. They have neat-looking skeletons with curved spines, short strong limbs, and pointy skulls.

Aardvarks
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Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.170.284
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Image source: http://web.wits.ac.za/PlacesOfInterest/LifeSciencesMuseum/AardvarkSkeleton.htm
Though not closely related to pangolins, anteaters, or armadillos, aardvarks lead a similar existence of digging and eating insects, and have similar adaptations and body shape.

Hyraxes
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Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.170.281
Hyraxes are cute but boring little furry animals, closely related to elephants, believe it or not. Their long-spined skeletons look kind of neat, I think.

Elephants
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Image source: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Animals/Mammals/Elephants/Anatomy/Skeletons/index.html
Elephants are huge, heavy animals, and their skeletons show that. Their spines are short and strait, their scapulae and pelvises heavily built, their legs long and pillar-like, their feet broad and strong. The skull is absolutely massive, with an enormous mandible. The incisors grow out into tusks, they have no fangs, and the molars are very large. The nostrils are high on the head, as is typical of a trunked animal. The eye sockets are very open, as they are in many large mammals.

To be continued.

Moai

June 1st, 2008, 06:14 PM

Mammals, continued even more

I'll try to wrap up the rest of the mammals with this post. There aren't that many groups left to cover.

Sirenians
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/newsletter/oct2006/newsletter-index.html
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Manatee_Skull.html
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Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/Dugong_Skull.htm
Sirenians include the manatees, dugongs, and sea cows. Similarly to whales, they have evolved short forelimbs, a streamlined body shape, large tail vertebrae, and tiny pelvic bones as all that remains of the hind legs. Note the thickness of the ribs and the way the transverse processes of the rear vertebrae are shaped like smaller ribs. The skull is unusually shaped, but somewhat reminiscent of elephants, to which sirenians are related; the dugong skull at the bottom even has some tusk-like incisors.

Embrithopods
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Images from Wikipedia.
Embrithopods, like Brontotheres and Dinoceratans, are large horned animals that flourished and went extinct at around the same time, many millions of years ago. Embrithopods are related to elephants and manatees. Their most obvious feature are the two pairs of horns on their head, one pair very large, and the other much smaller. Also note how heavily built the front limbs are, and how broad the scapulae and pelvis are. The skull has many identical teeth and two separate nasal openings, which make it seem somewhat reptilian.

Primates
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Source of above two images: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
Tarsier skeleton on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/14405058@N08/2169684854/
The prosimian primates are all primates that are not monkeys or apes. They include the well-known lemurs, and the somewhat less well-known bushbabies, lorises, and tarsiers. Their brain cases are not as large as in other primates, and their faces and jaws project outwards.
381994
381997
Source of above two images: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=493.504.508.511
381998
Image from skullsunlimited.com.
Monkey skeleton on Flickr: link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60119507@N00/104318875/).
Monkey skeletons are somewhat human-like, only more lightly built and quadrupedal, and with tails, obviously. They have large brain cases, and often projecting faces and large fangs, such as in mandrills and baboons. Unfortunately, there seems to be little in the way of quality monkey skeleton images on the internet.
381999
382000
382001
Source of above three images: http://www.boneclones.com/catalog_great_apes.htm
382002
Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
382005
Image source: http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Human-Skeleton-Posters_i1586485_.htm
The apes are the most humanlike animals, which is understandable, since humans are themselves apes. Giving a creature human-like characteristics can result in a very interesting creature design, or if done incorrectly, it can turn into a lame animal-with-human-parts-added type design.

Rodents
384100
Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
384101
384103
384106
Above three images from Wikipedia.
The most distinctive part of the rodent skeleton is the skull. The incisors are very large and prominent, and there is a large gap between them and the molars; there are no canines. The zygomatic arch system is, in some subgroups of rodents, more complex than in other animals, featuring large holes and other structures not seen in other mammals. This can be seen clearly in the Digimorph page on the Springhare (http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Pedetes_capensis/), and to a lesser extent on the Digimorph page on the common house mouse (http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Mus_musculus/homozygous/adult/head/).

Lagomorphs
384112
Image source: http://www.dundee.ac.uk/museum/zoology/skeletons.htm
Lagomorphs include rabbits and hares, as well as pikas. Their skeletons and skulls are very similar to the related rodents, but more adapted to hopping and bounding than many rodents.

Marsupials
All the preceding mammals have been placental mammals, which give birth to well-developed young. Marsupials, as you probably know, have a much shorter gestation period, and give birth to much smaller, less developed young, little more than embryos. These infants complete their development in a pouch. Thin wings of bone extend out from the pubis region of the pelvis to support this pouch, which is one of the few common skeletal features of what is a very diverse group of mammals.
384115
Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
Though not really graceful in life, I think that the skeleton of the Virginia Opossum is quite elegant.
384117
Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
The bandicoot has a long, tapering skull, similar to the tenrecs mentioned earlier.
384119
Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
The skull of the Thylocine (Tasmanian wolf/tiger) is extremely dog-like, one of many examples of convergent evolution in the marsupials.
384120
384121
Source of images: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
The kangaroos are perhaps the best known marsupials. The skull has features similar to both ruminants and rodents. The tail is thick and powerful and acts almost like a third limb at times. The legs and feet are very long, and some of the toes have fused together.
384124
Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
Related to kangaroos and koalas, the wombat has a large body with short legs, and a rather rodent-like skull.
384135
Image source: http://www.nhc.ed.ac.uk/index.php?page=24.134.165.168
The largest existing marsupial predator (unless the thylocine is not extinct, as some cryptozoologists claim), the Tasmanian devil, has a very solid, blocky skull. Look it up on Google for some better views.
384136
Image source: http://www.parks.sa.gov.au/naracoorte/images/005422?ssSourceSiteId=wonambi
The koala has features similar to rodents as well as primates and sloths, which is understandable for a tree-living herbivore.
384142
Thylacoleo (marsupial "lion"), image source: http://catbg.net/divi/index.php?sta=55&catid=6
One of the most fascinating extinct animals, and considered by many paleontologists to be one of the most formidable mammalian predators in history, Thylacoleo was one hell of an animal. Related to kangaroos, koalas, and wombats, which are all pure herbivores, Thylacoleo has some strange features for a predator. First of all, it has large, stabbing incisors, rather than stabbing fangs. It has few cheek teeth, both these teeth are very large, and look as sharp as blades. The skull is very short and powerfully built, and the living animal probably had an exceptionally powerful bite. The limbs are long and cat-like, and the thumbs had huge scary claws. It is thought that it could stand on its hind legs and swipe away with its deadly front feet, as was also a capable climber. All in all, a damn impressive critter.
384143
Diprotodon image from Wikipedia.
Diprotodon is another neat extinct marsupial. It is closely related to wombats, but has the dimensions and some of the features (look at the snout) of a rhinoceros.
384144
Thylacosmilus image from Wikipedia.
This amazing animal is a marsupial saber-tooth from ancient South America. Note those bony growths on the lower jaw, which supported and protected the fangs when the mouth was closed. It's a feature you should think about adding when designing a saber-toothed creature, just because it looks cool.

Monotremes
Monotremata is the smallest and probably the strangest of all living mammal groups. The monotreme lineage diverged from all other mammals many millions of years before marsupial and placental mammals diverged from each other. Living monotremes are much more reptile-like than other mammals. They have a sprawling gait, and two shoulder bones; monotremes have a scapula, as with other animals, but also a coracoid bone, which is below and inward of the arm. They also lay eggs and secrete milk through a patch of skin, rather than a nipple, but that isn't relevant to simply studying the skeleton for some creature design inspiration.:rendered: Also, all surviving monotremes have beak-like mouthparts.
384229
Image source: http://www.skullsunlimited.com/
384230
Image source: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Animals/Mammals/Egg-laying-Mammals/Duck-billed-Platypus/Anatomy/index.html
The famous platypus is a semiaquatic animal, and like other swimming animals it has a long, streamlined body and short, broad limbs. The skull has, obviously, a long, broad, duck-like bill, and only a single tooth in each quadrant of the jaws (technically, is actually made of keratin, and not a real tooth, but what the hell). The curved scapulae are angled forward so that they are more on the neck than on the side of the ribcage. The coracoid bones can be seen between the front limbs and in front of the ribcage. The limbs have strange knobs and projections at the elbows and knees. The tail is broad.
384236
Image source: http://www.parks.sa.gov.au/naracoorte/images/005252
384240
Image source: http://www.echidna.org.uk/drawings01.htm
384241
Image source: http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Zaglossus_bartoni/
The echidna, or spiny anteater, is the other type of monotreme that still exists. There is one species of short-nosed echidna (first two images), and three species of long-nosed echidna (last image). The snout is much more of a long, thin beak than the broad bill of the platypus, and the skull is similar to that of an anteater. Their stout frame and clawed limbs strengthen the similarity to other digging insect-eaters. Like the platypus, the scapulae are very far forward on the body, and the limbs are sprawled out to the side, with strange projections at the elbow and knee joints.

And that's it for the mammals! More vertebrate skeletons to come!

realitychek

June 11th, 2008, 05:00 PM

Wow, that was quite the interesting and informative read! It definitely helped clear up some things for me though so thanks! :) One quick question though, I noticed on the sea lion skeleton, the bit of bone that looks like a ring that's hanging behind the jaws- any clue what it's for?
I'll be finishing up and posting the final skeleton assignment tomorrow

Moai

June 11th, 2008, 07:16 PM

That little ring of bone behind the jaws is the hyoid bone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyoid). In mammals, it pretty just floats inside the neck, not attached to any other bone. The tongue and other muscles attach to the hyoid bone. In reptiles, fish, and other weird little animals, the hyoid apparatus is more complex and composed of more bones.
I'm excited to hear about your final skeleton! I'm looking forward to seeing it.:rendered: I'll be moving day after tomorrow though, so the time I can spend on this thread will be limited for the next while.

realitychek

June 12th, 2008, 05:22 PM

Neat!
Well, I wasn't able to finish up the action pose of the skeleton, but I'm really close to being done with that!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/2814023690101453012kOnHDT_ph.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/2084052600101453012QRMriL_ph.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/2242106520101453012puDoZk_ph.jpg

Moai

June 23rd, 2008, 05:28 PM

First of all, realitychek, let me apologize for being so late in this critique. I just moved from California to Oregon, so that took some time, but there was still some procrastination involved in the delay of this critique. But, enough excuses from me, let's get down to business.
First off, let me say that this looks great. You've created a very alert and elegant creature there. Its proportions are attractive, and with an interesting surface (such as fur) and coloration, it could make a beautiful creature design. This images also show that your knowledge and understanding of the animal skeleton is good, which is what we were hoping for.:rendered:

The critique:

397220
Not quite surprisingly, you seem most comfortable with the side view. That's typically the easiest view to draw of a creature. Anyway, all the individual bones in this view look fine, so there's nothing to critique there. However, in this drawing and the others, I noticed a tendency to have things slope down towards the left. The rear feet are higher than the front feet. It's a small flaw, but it hurts the illusion of the skeleton being grounded.

397222
In this view, the cranium looks good, but compare the mandible in this view to the mandible on the side view. It's much thinner in this view, and has more of a curved shape. This isn't consistent with how it looks in the side view. There's also some strange asymmetry going on with the shoulder blades, and the bottoms of the feet aren't level with each other.

397223
There's an inconsistency in this view of the skull as well, and that's the crest going down the middle along the top of the brain case. The other views gave this creature more of a smooth, rounded skull, without indicating the presence of a crest. Also, like I mentioned before, many things in this drawing are skewed so that they slope down to the left. This is particularly noticeable near the bottom of the pelvis.

Despite all my criticisms, though, you really did a great job visualizing this creature's skeleton from multiple angles, which is a difficult task. I'm also really looking forward to seeing the action pose of this skeleton.

Once again, great job!

Edit: Don't mind the MS Paint draw-overs! I'm using a computer that doesn't have Photoshop.

z07

July 14th, 2008, 03:06 AM

hi guys i've been following along on this thread and was just wondering if its "still alive" or if it ended?

Moai

July 14th, 2008, 11:26 PM

As far as I know, this thread is still alive. My mentees and I have been preoccupied with "real world" things recently. I just moved, for example. Once I'm settled, which should be soon, I'll see how my mentees are doing and see about getting this thread moving again.:wink:

Edit: Also, thank you for your interest.:rendered:

z07

July 15th, 2008, 03:07 AM

ok, thanks for letting me know, ill keep watching

realitychek

July 15th, 2008, 09:40 PM

Yeah, Moai, could definitely say been occupied with the real world. I'm so sorry I haven't finished up the action shot of my skeleton, I should have finished it up and posted it weeks ago, and now I'll be stuck without the internet until monday. I'll post it then, probably a few others too though, I promise!!

Moai

August 1st, 2008, 06:44 PM

Okay, mentees, it is August 1st. It's been a month and a half since there's been any activity in this thread at all. I would like everyone to chime in and tell me what their situation is, and what their plans are as far as this mentoring thread is concerned. Please.

Sheylore

August 4th, 2008, 10:20 AM

This thread is so interesting and I have spent the last two days reading through it all. Its too bad its dieing, and sad your not taking on more mentees. I would be a little iffy about being a mentee, as I prefer one on one guidance, but Im sure I would have still enjoyed it. :D Instead Ill follow along. I actually just found this site yesterday and so I have missed a lot. If you ever feel like taking another mentee, Im always here and open~

If not, Ill just follow along on some of the things I like. Im only interested in carnivorans, canine, feline, and ermine specifically. I wouldn't bother with of the horse, cow or deer studies too much. :P I look forward to seeing your muscle lessons. There is a lot on skeletons, but not much on fleshing them out.

[Edit] Im also obsessed with snakes, big lizards, dragons, and mythical creatures.

Asatira

August 4th, 2008, 03:47 PM

I'm a watcher who's been following (haven't had a chance to do the activities much). I'd like to see this thread progress through the skeletons and get a little to muscles and the surface stuff (skin, various ornaments like horns, fur, etc.).

If open to a mentee, I'd like to be one.

Keenir

August 26th, 2008, 01:16 PM

.I'm not sure I have what it takes to be a mentee, but I did this anyway.

.(if nothing else, it's good practice after too many years of tracing paper)

.I held the book ("mammal evolution") beside the paper, blank paper next to the picture I was using as a reference point.

ekobor

September 19th, 2008, 12:28 AM

Hey Moai, wonderful thread. I joined up here just so I could praise you for it.

I've been doing the exercises since I found this, and I can't wait until you get further along!

I'd love to be plaed on the waiting list, if it isn't too much of a bother. I really need to brush up on my art skills, as I'm mostly a writer.

Thank you so much for doing this thread, have a great day.

jockeer90

September 26th, 2008, 01:58 PM

I realy like this thread!
I will train a lot now, thanks for this thread!

Me,Myself & Me again

September 27th, 2008, 07:23 AM

Assignment 1
My name is kieran please call me it instead of Me,Myself & Me again simply because thats too long :).
I'm 17 an A-level student in fine art and have been drawing since i was 3. Love art and draw everyday because of it. I play guitar and drums, have a pet gecko and corn snake, love rock music. Hmm thats about it i think... now onto the assignment.

I like caskins creatures because of the incredible poses so life like :)
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80126

But my favorite creatures come from alex alexandrov.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81143
How can anyone not like those creatures :)

And finally the image below is my most recent creature i did for a teen challenge about a week and a half ago. You can see why i need help.

Thanx again moai for taking me on as a mentee.

Moai

September 27th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Sheylore, Asatira, Keenir, ekobor, jockeer90, and nocebo, thank you all very much for your interest in this thread. I just added a new student, and it may be a little bit before I know whether I'm going to add another one. If I do decide to add another student, I'll decide based on a combination of factors, including who asked first, the applicants' persistence, and artistic ability.
Again, thank you for your interest and encouragement. It means a lot to me.

Kieran- Welcome to the thread! It's good to have you on.
I too enjoy Caskin's and Alex's creatures. Caskin in particular is a great artist to study for her use of realistic poses and anatomy. Looking at your own creature design, and the work in your sketchbook, it's clear that you have a good imagination and an interest in the animal world, which will definitely help you along here.:rendered: I'm looking forward to seeing your first studies.

BULLETIN FOR ALL MENTEES!
Noe recently told me in a PM that she would like time guidelines and deadlines for her assignments. I'm going to give her deadlines like she asked, and I'd like to know if anyone else would like some stricter deadlines as well. If you'd like to stick to the current no-deadlines system, that's okay too. Just let me know.

Me,Myself & Me again

September 27th, 2008, 03:47 PM

Assignment 2
Well i decided to study the horse today, hope they look ok. Think i'll study the dog next. :)

Nocebo

September 28th, 2008, 05:21 AM

Realy nice Me, Myself. Just notist a little problem with the horse leg to the fare left. The upper arm bone, cornected to the shoulder blade is a little short compared to the drawing just above of the leg, which does that the hoof is to long away from the center and can make the horse look like it is tilting backward.

Just my 2 cent. Hope it helps but keep up the good work

Me,Myself & Me again

September 28th, 2008, 06:50 AM

I did'nt notice that before. Thanx nocebo that does help. :)
I'll adapt that info to my next study drawings.

Asatira

September 28th, 2008, 11:02 AM

Good to hear it's not dead. Look forward to lurking again.

Moai

September 28th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Kieran, that's an excellent first batch of studies. There are some errors, which of course I will address in this critique, but overall you're already showing competence in drawing the skeleton.
Two parts of the skeleton seem to be giving you the most trouble: the skull, and the scapula. In your first page of drawings, you drew the scapula very thick, very broad, when it is actually a bit of a narrower bone on the horse. As for the skull, in your drawing of the side view of the skeleton, you drew the skull too large in proportion to the rest of the skeleton, and also made it too deep and robust. In the drawing the skull alone, the proportions are more accurate, but the jaws are still a bit too short and deep. These errors in proportion that I just described aren't terribly important, since you are still learning about the anatomy and forms of these bones even if the proportions aren't perfect. However, good observational skills are essential for the studying artist, so you should probably measure your proportions a bit more carefully all the same.
Another thing, some of the errors in proportion that I'm seeing might simply be do to the fact that we're looking at two different references. I'm looking at Ellenberger's drawings, available here (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/initialize?sessionid=0&javascript=true&dbchoice=1&active=1&entityCurrentPage=Search1&dbname=Science&style=Science&next=NEXTCMD%7FSortedQuery?&context;&termsrch=%28ti%3D+%28Veterinary+Anatomical+lllustr ations%29%29&fmtclass=gallery&next=html/nfbrief.html&bad=error/badsearch.html&entitytoprecno=1&entitycurrecno=1&entitytempjds=TRUE&numrecs=12%7F). What source are you studying from?
Another slight problem area I'm seeing in the side view is the femur. It looks like you oversimplified a bit too much in your drawing and didn't pay enough attention to the interior forms of that bone. Just give the femur a little bit more study. Other than that, the limbs in all of your studies look great.
In the second image, I'm glad to see that back view of the pelvis. The pelvis is a complex, weird-shaped bone, so it's good that you're studying it from multiple angles.
For the front view, everything looks fine except for, again, the skull and scapula. The scapulae are only a bit off, nothing a bit of further study of the front view of the skeleton (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/FETCH?sessionid=01-38582-1427481473&recno=1&resultset=2&format=F&next=html/nffull.html&bad=error/badfetch.html&&entitytoprecno=1&entitycurrecno=1&entityreturnTo=brief) wouldn't fix.
For the skull, the errors primarily have to do with perspective. The eye sockets in particular don't quite match up; the right eye socket (the horse's right, our left) is too high and seems to be angled towards us a bit too much. This can be fixed by reducing the skull into simple shapes and planes, which are easier to put into perspective. See attached image. The simple boxy shapes that I drew over your horse's skull aren't perfect, but they're much easier to draw in perspective than a detailed skull.
You should apply this to your drawing of the horse rearing up. Simplify the shapes of all the bones and make sure those simple shapes are in correct perspective and the proportions are all correct before refining them and adding details.
I hope this helps. Very good work, Kieran.

Me,Myself & Me again

September 28th, 2008, 04:49 PM

Thanx for the crits moai, they help alot.
Heres the book that i've got:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anatomy-Drawing-School-Geza-Feher/dp/3833125284
I think it is different from the book you have. Also none of those links you gave me worked. If you could pm some reference images from the book you suggested that'd be great! :)
I'll get some more studies done and posted tomorrow.
Kieran out :)

Moai

September 28th, 2008, 04:57 PM

I changed the links and they should work now. Did you get a "this session has been logged out due to inactivity", or something like that? That message comes up whenever you're on that website too long without doing anything. It's kind of annoying.
If the link still doesn't work, tell me.:rendered:
I'm not familiar with that book you have.

Me,Myself & Me again

September 28th, 2008, 05:28 PM

Yeah i did get "this session has been logged out due to inactivity" every time i clicked on the links.
Its a great book bit expensive but worth it. It has other animals other than the horse, lion, dog and the cat. It also has the pig, camel, chimpanzee, sheep, bear, deer and cow. :)
I'll have to see if i can get some money to buy that Ellenberger book you mentioned.
Also if you don't mind me asking where's the rest of the mentee's?

Moai

September 28th, 2008, 07:02 PM

I don't think it'd be necessary for you to buy Ellenberger's book. Try the links I posted again. If they don't work, I also posted a link on page two of this thread. If the links work, and they should, you'll be taken to a gallery of every image in Ellenberger's book. The only thing missing is the key of the names of the bones and muscles. With those images online, and your own book, which seems to be pretty good, I don't think you'll need to buy Ellenberger's book.
As for the other mentees, I'm in contact with Noe and realitychek via PMs, and I don't know what's going on with Micaiah Nelson. He seems to have disappeared without a trace. You should see some activity from the others in the next week.

Keenir

September 28th, 2008, 10:57 PM

hi.

Sheylore, Asatira, Keenir, ekobor, jockeer90, and nocebo, thank you all very much for your interest in this thread. I just added a new student, and it may be a little bit before I know whether I'm going to add another one. If I do decide to add another student, I'll decide based on a combination of factors, including who asked first, the applicants' persistence, and artistic ability.

makes perfect sense.

I posted my skulls because I was trying to follow along with (and was inspired by) this thread, and wished for you to know.

Again, thank you for your interest and encouragement. It means a lot to me.

it means as much (if not more) to me that you replied. thank you.

realitychek

September 29th, 2008, 06:47 AM

Welcome aboard Me, Myself! :)
Cory, I'll be posting tomorrow, but I would love deadlines for upcoming assignments

Me,Myself & Me again

September 29th, 2008, 02:58 PM

Thanx realitychek and heya to you too. :)
I took note of the huge paragraphic comments you gave me moai (and the links work now) and studied the dog today only got a page done today, well thats cus its a schwool dway todway :geekg: Hope there ok? I think i did the wrong things right.
Oh yeah the hind leg i did as a real quick sketch instead of a full blown detailed one. ^.^

realitychek

September 30th, 2008, 08:27 PM

Action pose:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/actionskeleton.jpg

Me,Myself & Me again

October 1st, 2008, 02:39 AM

Awsome!!!
^.^

realitychek

October 1st, 2008, 06:52 AM

Thanks :)

Nocebo

October 1st, 2008, 12:41 PM

Looks like your ready to add flesh and muskles soon realitychek. Looking good.

Im just sad there is so long between post in here, though Me, Myself, you realy graped the torch and showen some good activity! Keep it up :) more work = more progress

Moai

October 1st, 2008, 11:01 PM

Keiran- Looking good! You're really doing well with these studies, my friend. I'm happy that I let you join.:rendered:
There's not much for me to critique on these drawings, because you are observing the bones very well. One thing that could use some tweaking, though, is the skull, as in your previous study. It seems a bit blocky and heavily built for a dog skull, and the teeth seem rather small in proportion, but there's quite a bit of variance between the skulls of different breeds, so that may be acceptable. What definitely do need some refinement, though, are the cervical vertebrae. They have more of a complex, interlocking, chain-like appearance than what you drew. Something to pay attention to in your next study.
I have some suggestions for your next studies. I'd do another herbivore and another carnivore, just to get a better sense of the similarities and differences of the skeletons of those two groups of animals. Then I'd do some studies of a large animal, such as an elephant or rhinoceros, and a small animal, such as a rodent. Be sure to do studies of different views of the skeleton, not just the side view. I'd also recommend that you label the bones and significant features on some of your studies, just to get the names down, and perhaps do some studies of individual bones.
That's all. Since you don't mind not having deadlines and seem to be moving at a good pace on your own, I won't set any deadlines for you now. Just keep making progress.:rendered:
Realitychek- Really excellent work, realitychek. You chose a pose that involved drawing bones from challenging angles, and for the most part you pulled it off. I was just looking at your earliest studies and concept skeletons and comparing them to this. You've learned and improved so much, and I'm proud of you.
I really don't have anything to critique on this. You have passed the skeleton. Now, finally, on to the muscles. I will try my hardest to get the first part of my muscle "lecture" up by next week. It'd be sooner, but I'm going on a trip this weekend.
Once again, great work!:cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:
Nocebo- Now that people are getting involved once again, updates should be coming much more rapidly. Thank you for your encouragement and continued interest.

Now, for some general thread updates.
First of all, happy belated birthday, thread!:cheerleader::cheerleader::cheerleader:
Secondly, I contacted Micaiah Nelson, and he'll be back here again next week. It's nice to have the students back in the classroom again.:rendered:
Thirdly, since some members now have deadlines, I WILL PUT DEADLINES IN BIG BLUE TEXT LIKE THIS to make them easier to see. Different mentees will have different deadlines, since they are at different stages of progress.
Fourthly, that's it!

OTTA

October 2nd, 2008, 02:47 AM

I'm just new here, and i think this is very amazing .I've used all-day long reading all of these. Thank you to you Mr.MOAI , I get a lot of things from this.

I'm looking forward to be your mentee someday :)

realitychek

October 2nd, 2008, 06:32 AM

Can't wait to get onto muscles Cory :)
Have fun on your trip though and thanks so much for mentoring me all this way, cause I can definitely see an improvement myself!

Noë

October 4th, 2008, 03:03 AM

Hello everybody! Welcome Kieran, and nice to see you again Realitychek!
I really love both your work on the bones! Rocking studies Kieran, and awesome final skeleton action pose realitychek!

I'm happy to announce that I got my schoolwork on track again (just started to study illustration), and I would like to get my first deadline soon :teeth:
I remember I did get some thumbs for the concept skeleton done, but no final concept skeletons.
But maybe it's an idea that I first do a study of a skeleton again to figure out where goes which bone again.. You decide Cory! :) :scribble:

Love,
Marleen.

Me,Myself & Me again

October 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Thanx moai for the tips i'll get the studies done today and posted tonight hopefully. :)

Noe: Thank you, Can't wait to see your new stuff ^.^

Moai

October 6th, 2008, 10:04 PM

Otta- Thanks!
realitychek- I will try to get the first set of muscles up by tomorrow. I did have fun on my trip, and I took some photos that I want to share with you guys of some animal stuff.
Noe- Welcome back! I do think it might be a good idea for you to do a few more studies before getting back at the concept skeleton. So, I'd like to do some studies of the skeletons of at least two different animals, with two views of each skeleton. I'd say each view should take you no more than an hour, but if you feel that you need more time then by all means take longer. Label the bones, and do specific studies of bones that you really feel that you don't understand. YOUR DEADLINE IS MONDAY, OCTOBER 13TH. If you have any questions or need any help, you know where to find me.:rendered:

Moai

October 9th, 2008, 02:25 AM

realitychek- Because of unforeseen complications at work and school, I didn't get that first muscle lecture done yet. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday. Sorry.:S

EDIT: Hey, I also just saw that you have an entry in CoW this week. You know, I'll always be more than happy to critique any creature-related work that you do. It doesn't have to be directly related to this thread. Just so you know.:rendered:

Me,Myself & Me again

October 9th, 2008, 03:32 AM

Damn moai you stole my late post explanation :)

realitychek

October 9th, 2008, 06:37 AM

That's ok :) Gives me more time to work on a research paper due for english tomorrow :^^;:
I'll probably ask for some crits on future COWs then, been wanting to get into them regularly ;)

Moai

October 12th, 2008, 06:17 PM

At long last, here is the first installment of the lesson on muscles. Muscle anatomy is a very complex subject to learn, so to not present an overwhelming amount of information at once, I will only go into detail about one part of the body in each of installment of this lesson. This particular installment, as the title should make obvious, is about the muscles of the skull.

General Information on Muscles

There are three types of muscle. The first type is skeletal muscle, which is the type we are studying here. The second type is smooth muscle, which lines the inner organs, and the last type is cardiac muscle, which makes up the heart. Skeletal muscles are made up of bundles of muscle fibers. These fibers contract under nerve impulses. Because they contract, muscles can only exert force by pulling; they cannot push. Muscle fibers either attach directly to the bone, or they attach to a tendon, which then attaches to bone. Tendons are a type of tough connected tissue, which, as stated, serve the purpose of attaching muscles to bones.
Skeletal muscles have an origin and an insertion. The origin is closer to the center of the body's axis, and the insertion is further away, and is on the other side of a skeletal joint. You can think of the muscle's origin as its "anchor," while the insertion is attached to the part of the body that the muscle acts upon. For example, the biceps muscle is located on the upper arm, and when contracting lifts (or flexes, if you remember the terminology from the movement lesson) the lower arm. The biceps muscle is attached at the upper end to the scapula and at the lower end to the radius. Since the part of the body that moves when the biceps contracts is the lower arm, we know then that the biceps' insertion is on the radius, and that its origin is on the scapula.
In addition to muscles and tendons, these lessons will also occasionally cover some other soft tissues, such as important cartilages, ligaments (connective tissue between bones), and glands. But it'll mostly be about muscles
Wikipedia pages on muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle), skeletal muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_muscle), tendons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendon), ligaments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligament), and cartilage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartilage).

Muscles of the Skull

So, here's the more specific breakdown of the muscles of the skull. The muscles of the skull can be divided into two general groups. There are the jaw muscles and the facial muscles. The jaw muscles are large and bulky and obviously control the movement of the lower jaw, or mandible. The facial muscles control the movements of the facial features: the eyes, nose, mouth, and ears. They are smaller and thinner than the jaw muscles and have a much more subtle impact on external form.
One thing I should mention about this particular part of the muscle lesson is that these facial muscles are very specific to mammals. If you think about it, mammals are really the only animals with fleshy cheeks, lips, snouts, and ears, and therefore, they are the only animals with most of these facial muscles. For other types of animals, such as reptiles and birds, the jaw muscles are largely inside the skull, while the facial muscles are mostly nonexistent. This is important to realize, because the facial muscles control facial expression. Animals without facial muscles communicate more through body posture, or very rudimentary facial expressions, such as opening the mouth wide.
Anyway, expression of emotion and personality and the anatomy of other animal groups are topics for other lessons. Let's dive into the muscles of the skull.

490156

This is a generic mammal-type skull (kind of a cross between a dog and a goat skull) with generic mammal skull muscles painted over it. The muscles overlap each other quite a bit, so to make learning easier the muscles are often divided into deep and superficial groups. That's what I've done here.
Another thing to keep in mind when looking at this information: I've had to generalize the musculature of different species to create this generic model for you to study. Some muscles only appear in certain types of animals, and if they seemed unimportant, I didn't include them. The forms of other muscles vary quite a bit from species to species. I'll mention how muscles differ in different animals as I describe specific muscles, but you really don't need to worry about it. You can live a long and fruitful creature-designing life without knowing how the insertion of the malaris differs between canines and felines, or how the caninus attaches to the nose in some animals but only to the lips in other animals. Just learn what you need to learn to improve your ability to create creature designs, and don't worry about the rest.

490157

These are the deep muscles of the skull. They are often obscured somewhat when the superficial muscles are included.

1. Temporalis- This jaw muscle originates on the side of the brain case and takes up pretty much the entire side of the skull behind the eye sockets and above the zygomatic arch. It inserts into the uppermost part of the mandible. It is a jaw-closing muscle.
2. Digastric- This is a jaw-opening muscle. It originates on the back of the skull and attaches to the bottom/rear of the mandible. How far its insertion extends down the line of the jaw varies from species to species. It extends quite a bit down the jaw in carnivores and only a little bit in herbivores.
3. Levator anguli oculi medialis- Oddly, the smaller and more insignificant the muscle, the longer the name. This is basically the eyebrow-raising muscle. It originates on the forehead and inserts into the orbicularis oculi.
4. Orbicularis oculi- This is the muscle of the eyelids and of the skin around the eye. It attaches to the skull via a ligament at the corner of the eye.
5. Levator labii maxillaris- This muscle originates on the side of the skull in area generally between the eye and jaw, and inserts into the nostril and upper lip. It lifts the upper lip and flares the nostrils.
6. Caninus- The caninus is basically the same muscle as the levator labii maxillaris, only lower. It inserts either into the side of the nose or into the lips, depending on what kind of animal you are.
7. Mentalis- The chin muscle. When talking about skeletal and muscular anatomy, "mental" refers to the chin. According to Elliot Goldfinger, it pushes the chin and lower lip upward.
8. Buccinator- The cheek muscle. It originates along the tooth rows of the upper and lower jaws and inserts into the corner of the mouth (orbicularis oris muscle). It is divided into a front and a back portion. It is a more prominent external form on herbivores than on carnivores.
9. Depressor labii mandibularis- This muscle travels along the lower jaw, attaching to the mouth muscle at one end and the masseter muscle at the other end. It pulls the lips outward. Fairly insignificant.

That takes care of the deep muscles. When studying these, break them into categories. What muscles operate on the jaw? What muscles control the nose or the eyes? What muscles operate the mouth and lips?

490159

These are the superficial muscles of the skull.
1. Masseter- This powerful muscle originates on the zygomatic arch and inserts into the mandible. It closes the mouth for biting and chewing, and it is one of the strongest muscles in the body. It is flatter in herbivores and thicker and rounder in carnivores.
2. Zygomaticus- This long ribbon of muscle originates on the scutiform cartilage in some animals and at the zygomatic arch in other animals. It inserts into the corner of the mouth and lifts the corner of the mouth up and back. Humans have two zygomaticus muscles, the major and the minor, which are used for smiling and frowning, respectively.
3. Orbicularis oris- This is the muscle of the mouth and lips. Its size and shape is highly variable from species to species; just remember that the shape of this muscle is essentially the same shape as the lips of that animal. It opens, closes, and controls the movements of the lips, along with many other facial muscles.
4. Levator Nasolabialis- This muscle originates at the top of the skull in front of the eyes and inserts into the nostril and lips. It flares the nostril and lifts the upper lip.
5. Malaris- The malaris pulls the lower eyelid downward. I show it originating on the side of the face below the eye, but it originates in different places for different species. It's not a very important muscle, so don't worry about where it originates for different species.
6. Scutiform cartilage- This is a little thingy of cartilage that floats on top of the temporalis muscle. The zygomaticus muscle attaches to it in some species, and many of the ear muscles attach to it as well.
7. Glands- These are the various glands that exist to the rear of the lower jaw. According to my animal anatomy books they soften the outline of the lower jaw.
Nasal Cartilage- I forgot to number this one! Anyway, this thing makes up the structure of the nose and nostrils. Its shape varies according to the shape of the nose of each species.
Not included in the above diagrams are the ear muscles. Some anatomy books include them, but according to Elliot Goldfinger these muscles do not affect surface form. So, for the sake of simplicity, I did not draw them. Just know that there are two dozen tiny little muscles controlling the ear that you don't have to worry about.

This last image shows all the muscles isolated.

490165

My source for most of this information is Animal Anatomy for Artists: The Elements of Form by Elliot Goldfinger. It tackles this subject in much more detail than I do.

Moai

October 12th, 2008, 08:15 PM

Realitychek- Your assignment is twofold. The first part is simple. Just do studies of the muscles of the head. Study from Goldfinger, study from that gallery of Ellenberger's anatomical plates, from my own diagrams, or from any other good source. Just do studies of the head for now, please. For the second part of your assignment, I want you to do a study from a photograph (or a live animal, if you want to) of a fully skinned, furred animal. The facial muscles should be fairly visible on the photo you study from, because the purpose of this study is to see how visible the muscles are on the outside form of an animal. Don't spend a lot of time rendering or shading, just try to get a feel for how visible the muscles are. I'll try to find some good photos to study from for this assignment, if you like. You may want to do a few of these studies.YOUR DEADLINE IS WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22ND.

The rest of you just keep on keepin' on with the skeleton.

EDIT: Also, realitychek, when doing the studies from photos, pay attention to how the bones are visible on the surface of the creature as well, in addition to the musculature.

Noë

October 13th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Hiya Moai,

Well, I didn't make the deadline entirely, but I think it is helping slightly because I did push myself to get this done. I did two right now, and need to squeeze in another two somewhere but evaluation of my work is coming up and I need to finish loads of stuff.. A new deadline is fine though, I can do stuff next weekend and will try to finish these studies tomorrow.
Just remember I forgot to label them.. Will edit this post when I labeled them, with the new images.

490875

I did this one first, got a bit annoyed with myself, worked on this a bit more than 2 hours (way too long)

490876

So on this one I did things differently: I didn't measure everything before drawing, I just drew a quick setup relying only on eye, not real measuring with pencil and then started. I set myself a limit of one hour, starting with the major bones and doing the spine and ribcage last (that's why those are unfinished).. Anyways, it doesn't look right, I think the spine should go up a bit higher, but for the time I spent on it it is better than the first one.

Oh yeah, I did the lion skeleton.
thanks for all the help, and the new muscle update :)
Love,
Marleen.

realitychek

October 13th, 2008, 06:55 PM

Woot! Thanks for the muscle lesson Moai :) I'll be posting studies all this week as I get stuff done.
Glad to see you're back too Noe

Micaiah Nelson

October 14th, 2008, 10:09 PM

Hey wattup everybody. I'm back. I took a slight break. I got more skelecton studies. But I'm gonna post what I have uploaded on the com first. And please excuse the some of these sketches. I ran off the pages a couple of times. Well I kind of always run off the page.

Moai

October 16th, 2008, 01:51 PM

Hokay, sorry for the delay, everybody. Let's get critiquing.
Noe- As usual, great studies. Don't worry about not labeling the bones, or about not getting both skeletons done in time for the deadline. I'm extending to Wednesday, October 22nd. Just get two more views of a different skeleton done, and perhaps do some specific studies of any bones that you don't feel that you understand well enough.
Though you did take a bit long on it, the first study of the top view of the lion is perfect. I compared it to Ellenberger's image in photoshop, and it's just about 100% accurate. Very nice study. I hope you learned a lot from it.
For the second study, the spine should actually be somewhat lower. At least that's what comparing this image to Ellenberger is telling me. The skull is also slightly too large. However, all the bones and joints are well observed, so these inaccuracies aren't so important.
Micaiah Nelson- Welcome back, dude! I'm really glad to see you posting in this thread again.
The first skeleton is the goat, correct? There's a few proportional issues going on. The legs are somewhat too long, especially the front legs, and the ribcage is a bit too small. Herbivores tend to have long, deep ribcages. They need large hearts and lungs to have the endurance to flee from predators. The individual bones are for the most part pretty well-observed, but the ilium of the pelvis is a bit stretched out. The skull could definitely use a redraw. It looks somewhat hastily done.
The doe's proportions are pretty good, and its individual bones are well-observed. Nice study there. Nice job on the horse and cow legs as well. The horse's hoof is a bit large and thick in comparison to the rest of the leg, but that's minor. Make sure you pay special attention to the shapes of the bones at the joints, because those areas are often pretty visible on the exterior form of the animal. The doe's head seems a little rough, but you got all the necessary forms down.
It's interesting that you chose to do a study of a Triceratops skeleton as well. Dinosaurs are fascinating animals, and differ in a number of ways from the generic mammal skeleton that I've described in this thread. I'm going to cover the anatomy of different kinds of animals in more detail after everyone is through with the muscles, but I'll tell you right now that the snout of a Triceratops is longer than what you've drawn, and its humeri have a knobbier, more extreme shape. Here's a great image from wikipedia that shows these things clearly (and it's quite similar to the view you've already drawn, which is convenient): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Triceratops_Skeleton_Senckenberg_2.jpg.
I have one more critique before I go. Your pencil technique is somewhat scratchy. I'd like to be a bit smoother and more careful with your lines. Also, your scanned sketches are very bright and high contrast. Perhaps adjust your scanner's settings to not be so high key and high contrast. This brightness and contrast may also be exaggerating the scratchiness I'm seeing in your lines. Just an aesthetic consideration. Your studies are going well in any case.

So, some assignments and deadlines for you guys.
Noe, another skeleton from two different angles, and some studies of individual bones if you feel that you need them.
Micaiah Nelson, at least two different skeletons from at least two different angles, along with studies of individual bones and parts as you see fit.
THE DEADLINE FOR BOTH OF YOU IS WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 22ND. If you need help or want to post things before then, I'm always around.:rendered:

Moai

October 18th, 2008, 05:24 PM

Here are some links to some photographs that show the facial muscles fairly well. The best animals to view the facial muscles seem to be horses and ruminants (the group of hoofed animals that includes cows, goats, antelopes, giraffes, and deer). On other animals, the facial muscles are less obvious.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Taurotragus_oryx.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/saiga1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Pronghorn.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Okapi2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Houston_Giant_Eland.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Elch_3_db.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Elch_2_db.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Elch_1_db.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Denali_National_Park_Female_Moose_3.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/CH_cow_2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Brahman_Baby.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Alces_alces_bialowieza_beentree.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/A03_2807_640x427.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/707px-Amerykaski_staford_gowa_suki_.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/800px-Dobermannhuendin.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Blue_greyhound.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Congo_Basenji.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/horse-face-belle.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/YellowLabradorLooking.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Prezewalsky_26-9-2004-2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/metalukesurfer/Labrador_retriever_bulaj1.jpg

Just pick a few of these images, realitychek. Don't get too involved with rendering texture and value, and just try to indicate how obvious the muscles are. If you really can't see a muscle on the surface, don't draw it. As always, if you need any help, I'm around.

Me,Myself & Me again

October 19th, 2008, 04:48 PM

Done a carnivore (lion) and a herbivore (pig) studie so far, gonna get the big and small mammalian skeletons doen soon :). Could'nt get alot of poses for the pig :(. And a request for my small mammal could i study the bat?
P.s Moai i sent you a pm. :)

realitychek

October 19th, 2008, 07:49 PM

Ok, here's three head muscle studies- horse, cow, and dog. The lion's almost done too, I'll have that up tomorrow :)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/horseskullmuscles.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/cowskullmuscles.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/dogskullmuscles.jpg

Moai

October 19th, 2008, 10:09 PM

Kieran- Excellent studies! Those are really very beautifully done. It looks like you're getting all the necessary details of the bones, so that's great. For the study of the lion, the body seems somewhat too short. Comparing it to Ellenberger, there are more lumbar vertebrae in Ellenberger's drawing of the side view. However, you're learning the shapes of the bones very well, so that isn't so important. The drawing of the lion's skull looks a bit squashed. The proportions of the zygomatic arch, eye socket, and forehead are also off somewhat.
The pig skull looks great. My only critique is that your rendering makes some areas look a bit flat, like the part of the upper jaw right at the end of the snout, and the middle part of the lower jaw. The drawings of its ribcage and limbs are excellent, not crits there.
I'm fine with you studying the bat. The skeleton of a bat is somewhat modified from the "normal" skeleton, so you should learn some interesting things from that.
However, before you finish studying and move on to the concept skeleton, I'll need to see some studies of different views than just the side view of the skeleton from you.:rendered:

P.s Moai i sent you a pm.
Are you talking about the message you sent me about instant messenger? I responded to that one, actually. I have yahoo messenger. I prefer to just communicate just by posting in this thread, though, so we don't have to coordinate our schedules to be on the computer at the same time.
If you're talking about a different PM, I didn't get it.:shrug:

realitychek- Excellent studies! I really like the technique you're using for these, with the bone still visible through the muscles. Do you feel like you're learning a lot? You may want to test yourself. Without looking at reference, see if you can draw each muscle with the correct origins and insertions, and see if you can tell yourself what each muscle does. If you can do that, then you know that the knowledge has really taken root.
These studies are also showing good knowledge of the bony structure, as well. I'm glad you're retaining that information!:D

Keep it up, both of you! You're making great progress in your studies.

realitychek

October 20th, 2008, 06:37 AM

Doing the skulls first then building the muscles up on top definitely helped me out on these, just so I knew where everything went in relation to the skull :)
I'll have to test myself like you suggested later today, I think I have pretty much everything down but would like to study them a little more.

Me,Myself & Me again

October 20th, 2008, 12:54 PM

Thanx for the crit and for letting me study the bat ^.^ Plus theres a giraffe hopefully coming this way aswell.
I did'nt get the reply to that message? for some reason. ohwell totally understand.
So one quick question with a possible long answer What is the next couple of lessons going to be about after the muscle work?

Moai

October 20th, 2008, 01:31 PM

Realitychek- Yeah, it's very important to know where the bones are underneath the skulls.
Kieran- After the muscles, we'll be briefly overviewing the anatomy of other kinds of animals (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, insects and other invertebrates). I don't want to keep you guys just drawing skeletons and muscles forever, but I've done some studying of the anatomy of other types of animals since this thread got started, and there are some important differences that I think you guys should learn.
After that, we'll probably do some studies of surface texture. Fur, feathers, scales, wrinkles, etc.
Then probably after that we'll go into shapes and other elements of abstract design, and personality/characterization.

Me,Myself & Me again

October 20th, 2008, 01:43 PM

Wicked! Sounds like fun all round ^.^

Me,Myself & Me again

October 20th, 2008, 06:12 PM

The bat and giraffe studies. The bat from different angles, but the giraffe had hardly any other referenced angles. :(
On the other hand i believe i've got the hang of these skeleton studies, i've actually started to identifie the bones in my own body from research done on the animal skeletons.(well what else am i gonna do when the teachers yammering away ;))

Moai

October 22nd, 2008, 11:57 PM

Kieran- Sorry for the delay in this response. I haven't been feeling my best.
Anyway, I agree with you that you've got the hang of these bone studies. Before you move on to the concept skeleton, though, I would, again, like to see some different views. So, do a front view, a top view, and a back view of a quadruped animal, and then you'll be ready to move on to the concept skeleton.
As usual, the studies are looking great. Bats have strange skeletons, don't they? Their limb bones are so curved. I was going to critique you on the fact that the vampire bat's skull is so smooth and featureless, and that the teeth aren't well defined as separate from the skull. Then I looked up a vampire bat skull, and saw that they actually look just like that!:rendered: Very strange animal.
The giraffe looks good, but the head is much too big. I like the study of its skull. That's a nice drawing.

So, this was the deadline for all three of you, Noe, Micaiah, and Realitychek. Let's see your stuff.:rendered:

realitychek

October 23rd, 2008, 08:42 AM

Moai, I'm might have to post tomorrow, I'm getting my wisdom teeth pulled in about an hour (fun wow....) but I'll be continuing work on the animal head sketches from the pictures you gave before then.
Hopefully I'll feel well enough to post later to night, but if not, tomorrow, I promise! :)

Micaiah Nelson

October 23rd, 2008, 09:31 PM

Hey wassup my peoples! Sorry bout yesterday. I having trouble with hips in general. I need to spend more time on them. I also have problems with getting the whole figure on the page. lol. Once again. One of the studies is not completely straight. I need to do more carnivorous studies.

I'll post the muscles studies tomorrow morning As well as the dogs hip lol. Whatz the next assignment?

Noë

October 24th, 2008, 01:44 AM

I'm sorry Moai, will post my assignment this evening.. If this happens again I'm afraid I might have to stop this awesome mentoring experience.. It turns out I have huge problems with planning schoolwork again, and even more problems with sticking to what I planned, so I end up spending more time with friends than I planned for, and working all evening and early morning to finish school work :S

Will try to do some quick studies in the train today, but for detailed studies, the train ride is too bumpy.

Love,
Marleen.

realitychek

October 24th, 2008, 11:21 AM

Well, here's what I got done Moai :)
I know the dog's off, but I think the other ones turned out alright
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f6/Pinto777/CA/Moai/facestudies.jpg

Moai

October 24th, 2008, 02:52 PM

Micaiah Nelson- Looking pretty good, man. Your pencil technique is somewhat softer and more careful in these posts, and the lower-contrast scans are helping with the presentation.
For the side view of the dog skeleton, the head and the feet could stand the most improvement. The proportions on the head are somewhat skewed, with the mandible being too far forward on the skull. The back of the skull, including the rear of the zygomatic arch where the mandible articulates with the skull, is unfinished. The feet are mostly okay, but the toes on the back feet are somewhat small, and the left hind foot is lacking a calcaneus (ankle bone). The ribcage, vertebrae, pelvis, and limb bones are looking good, though.
The proportions are a bit stretched out on the top view of the skeleton, but the bones are all well observed. I was going to comment that some of the vertebrae in the neck look strange, but I looked at some reference images and realized that the bones really do look strange from this view, so that's okay.
What was your source for the study of the cow's pelvis? Comparing it to Ellenberger, it should be somewhat longer and more stretched out. Also, in this image we can see inside one of the hip joint sockets, but not inside the other. However, from this perspective we should be able to see inside both of them.
The leg studies are great. They're just missing patellas. At least the mammals are; I'd have to look up whether birds have kneecaps or not. Also, be sure to clearly draw in the segments of the toe bones.
Some words about your assignments: I didn't write out your assignment clearly, because I actually wanted you to draw the skeletons of two different animals, with two different views of each animal. Not just two views of one skeleton.:rendered: But that's okay, because I wasn't being clear. Also, the muscle studies are for after you have finished with the concept skeleton.
Anyway, your next assignment is as follows. Draw an herbivore's skeleton from two different views, but make these views from the front, top, or back. You've already done the side view. Measure proportions and observe shapes and details carefully. Then, draw the skeletons of a small animal, such as a rodent, and of a large animal, such as a rhinoceros or elephant. Do two different views each of the large and small animals. Do studies of specific parts of the skeleton that you feel that you don't know well enough.YOUR DEADLINE IS FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 7TH. That's two weeks. If you finish sooner than that, great.:rendered: Once you're done with this assignment, I think you can move on to the concept skeleton.

Noe- You know I want to keep you as a mentee, Marleen. I hope you'll be able to stay on. I can make your deadlines farther apart, if you like.

Realitychek- Very nice studies. I'll critique them now, but there's something else I want to you do to them that I probably should have mentioned earlier. I would like you to label the muscles that you can see on the surface, to make sure you're identifying them correctly. You can do this in photoshop, if you like, so you don't mess up the drawing with all kinds of labels.
Anyway, the saiga (the antelope with the weird nose) looks good. You got all the forms that I can see. The pronghorn could use a bit more definition on its cheek muscles, but I can see that you are able to see them. The eland (the spiral-horned antelope) could also use a bit more definition in its cheeks and lips. The dog was challenging, because most of its muscles aren't extremely visible on the surface. I think you got most of what is visible, though.
One thing about these: I think you you spent too much time shading. We're more interested in form right now, not in shadows and patterns. It doesn't really hurt these studies, but it's just something to keep in mind for next time.
So, label these, and then we'll talk about them some more. Then we can move forward to the muscles of the neck, which are kind of a pain. If you need any help, as always, just ask.:rendered: