works and studies

[DIMAGYAN]

this is the thread where yinteck and i will post works and studies. i hope it can be a good read to all and a productive time to yinteck, and to me too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit 2: more people come so the said above count for everyone. i hope all of you have a productive time and fun in here.

make a short presentation with:

-your real name(not need for last name)
-goals and/or what you expect
-what you want to work the most in here

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit: an assignment per week could be a reasonable time.every friday a new assignment.
tell me your thoughts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
01

ok yinteck, lets start with some stick figures to see proportion and balance.
try first stands positions.

a reference from Andrew Loomis - Figure drawing for all it's worth

206738

work on this and tell me any thoughts or what you want to do. if its anything you want or feel you need to work, please tell me.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as a side note: sorry for my english, i hope you can understand something:^^;:

Diego

[yinteck]

My name is Hew Yin Teck
The things i would like to work on is anatomy and drawing human figure in every angle correctly.
I think my weak point is in color ,perspective and drawing human figure is difference angle.


Here the first one :teeth:
For the assignment i dont think i have any question or problem yet.

I think i am on the right track. :teeth:

[DIMAGYAN]

yinteck:you are in the rigth track. but many of your stick figures looks off of balance. why? because you dont follow the lines you trace in shoulders and hips. the impotant thing of draw stick figures beside of proportionsis, is that is easy to draw. so you don't have to worry about details, and you can concentrate in balance, posture, movement and a correct construction of the figure. tink in them as the bones of every human and animal. the first foundation in the mechanical system in our body( then come muscles and tendons,etc).
all the body parts works together.
good work keep practice.

i post a sketch of what i said above.

207149

[qbertp]

Hello. Dimagyan said it would be alright for me to join this thread so I hope you don't mind yinteck. I'm sure I can learn from both of you. Currently I'm pursuing art mainly for my own interests, however I see every skill as a door to new opportunities. In addition I write and have several pieces I would eventually like to illustrate. In my writing I try to maintain a level of simplicity and I would like to do the same in my art. That said, I'm not really at the level where I can make alot of stylistic choices. I need much more work on basic fundamentals. So move at your own pace and I will try to keep up. Thanks for having me.

Below is the first set of studies. I did a couple of very basic paintovers to help me visualize the stance of the figures and see how far off my proportions were. Any and all advice is appreciated.


http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/stickbalancestudy.jpg

[yinteck]

Cool ! we can learn together. Welcome and happy drawing.

[yinteck]

Thanks sir for pointing out the error .I really did not notice that.
Ok, here is another study i did , hope is better...:[

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp: welcome! your rigth basics fundamentals are the key to understand everything, and then make what you want from there.

yinteck:thats better.

about the figures of both of you: is all matter of practice. keep drawing them several times.observe the people, your friend or family, in the street, books. look skeletons try to learn from every source.

if is posible draw from life, but if you can't use photographs(lifedrawing is better than photograps in my opinion)

talk each other as well. i want to make this a more participative thread.

i post a couple of sketches later.

btw read the first post, i make new announcments in edit 1 and edit 2

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp: some things to keep in mind: observe the proportions when you make the sticks figures, rigth now they look wide. keep them simples if you have troubles.

207944

some thougths about balance and what i said in above posts:

207945

another thing that all of you can do is mantein the aspect even more simple, to concentrate in the movement and proportions.
when you draw figures always feel the pose and the weight. act with your own body, see in the mirror. always observe.

if you can try to find books from andrew loomis and george b. bridgman
look to work of the best artist. and draw from life.

Diego

[oyowzas]

Hey everyone im jared, im 15 years old. Im currently jus trying to get my artwork up to the level where i feel it should be at 15. Soo im hoping that through this thread i can work and get my artwork to were im content with it.

Soo i know its not very good but i appreciate all c&c. Im hoping this will to be a start to something great and id really like to be able to look back on this in a year and see how much progress ive made like some other people on the forums. So without further delaying heres my work. I have the basic sketches of the stick figures, and then a couple random type sketches trying to use correct figure, even if its not soo correct figure :bashful:.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/oyowz/DSC05088.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/oyowz/DSC05086.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/oyowz/CopyofDSC05084.jpg

[DIMAGYAN]

Jared:welcome!. you will always can learn and improve, there is no "level" for a determinate age. don't worry abut that. just enjoy what you do and the rest will come.

observe.pay attention to what you draw. if you don't like something that you do then do it again.
the figures are fine, just pay more attention to the proportions and the angles and forms. work with stick figures more simple if you want.
try also to post entire figures to see the construction and balance.
but what you have to do is draw and observe a lot.
you can draw like a mad man but if you don't observe and asimilate the information then is no learning.
keep drawing, do simple stick figures several times, study photographs and people. study bones and look for books in the subject.

good work and keep drawing

Diego

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/stickstudytwo.jpg

Here are a few more figures. They are a bit less thick.

It's kind of difficult for me to find books around here as I don't speak the language(korean). But once I get back to work I'll hit up the library for something.

[CouchPotato]

Hey guys, and thanks to Dimagyan for having me in his corner. Thanks a whole bunch!

I just want to improve my figure drawings (including faces). At some point I hope I can try my hand at some painting as well. My tones and values need more work as well haha. Dimagyan has very kindly agreed to help me out.

I think an assignment topic a week is pretty good, so we can keep working until we get it right haha. (I'm a slow learner anyway).

So, here are some of my stick figures for proportions and balance!

[yinteck]

The weekly assignment would be great sir.
I had do some short presentation in my first post ( edited ).

qbertp . I think u should try to draw the Manikin frame given by DIMAGYAN first and try to observe and draw again. I think what will help u understand more besides imagining urself . Just my opinion....


oyowzas. Dont imagine first , try pratice the manikin frame. Drawing precise line so u can differentiate the weight and balance of the human figure

CouchPotato welcome aboard.

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp:don't rush yourself , take your time to do the figures. the legs are stiff. try to look photos or people to see how the body work. look the reference i post, observe how loomis build the figure. you are drawing digital, rigth? if you can draw in paper to get more confident with the line(if you try to learn how the body works and at the same time you are learning how to use the tool, you can have troubles). practice with pencil if you need erase, then do it. take your time is not important make a character.concentrate on the construction.if you have any questions please tell me.

CouchPotato:welcome and good start! but for now concentrate in a stand pose.what im interested in this assignment is that you think and observe proportions and balance(later i think it would be "ideal proportions" and movement).


Hew Yin Teck: your first name is yin teck. rigth?. good i want that all of you participate helping each other, so thanks for start that.


some "open source" books from the internet archive

The Human Machine The Anatomical Structure & Mechanism Of The Human Body - George B.Bridgman
http://www.archive.org/details/humanmachinethea009564mbp

Constructive anatomy - Bridgman, George Brant, 1864-1943
http://www.archive.org/details/constructiveanat00briduoft

go to the ftp link and choose the type of file you want to download(jpg, pdf, djv)

cheers
Diego

[yinteck]

Thanks for the links sir . Now i am studying andrew loomis book.

[meds]

Hi! My name is Angie and I first want to thank Dimagyan for allowing me to particpate in this thread. I think it will be a great learning process for all involved, and I appreciate the help.

I am self-taught and a beginner, although I am very determined to work hard and learn as much as I possibly can. I feel like I have come a long way so far, but know that I need some guidance. I really want to work on anatomy and other basics that I may be missing, and pretty much anything else that people think I need to work on.

Here is my first assignment. I feel like they look too forced, so I am going to keep practicing so that they come more natural.

[DIMAGYAN]

Hey angie. welcome! nice start. i'm self-taught too so i understand what you say about learn and try to get information and guidance. hopefuly all of you and i can learn somenthing in here and have a good time.

on the assignment:they look pretty good. what you have to do now as you said is keep drawing them and nail proportions and the idea of the body mechanism.
pay attention to all the body when you make a pose. take a look to the post i did in this subject. as i said before learn from everything.draw as much as you can.do lifedrawings, selfportraits study photographs and great drawers, if you can try to find books(artistics and from medicine or biology too).
keep practice and the rest will come.

Diego

[qbertp]

Just a quick update.
I managed to find a copy of the loomis so that's pretty nifty.

I'm working on a couple of rounds of manequins on paper. I should have access to a scanner tommorrow.

[DIMAGYAN]

thats great qbertp.post them want you can.

tomorrow (i dont know the hour) i will post the second assignment.of course you keep drawing the first, and ingeneral. the key is draw a lot, no matter how hard could it be...after all draw is fun,no?

Diego

[qbertp]

My legs are off, but I think it's partly because i've been trying to keep the femurs bolted to the hips rather than letting them actually move as a joint should, and partly the fact that I have difficulty knowing how much and what direction to curve the shin without reference(going to spend some more time looking at books). Also the scanner wasnt picking up the pencil marks very well so I photocopied and went over them in pen.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/Study1.1.jpg
The second row was done from looking directly at the loomis.
The first row was done looking mainly at the loomis but mainly the second row for reference.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/study1.3.jpg
I found my models tended to shrink from the scale i set up with the manequins. But I thought they looked better so I tried to retool the manequins a bit. Also my heads tended to start off a bit big.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/Study1.2.jpg
I worked from small to large getting further away from the loomis each time. I think it shows( not in a good way ). Still I wanted to try and internalize some of the proportions.

[meds]

Hey qbertp, great practice. I think a lot of those figures look stronger than they did in your first post. I have been practicing a lot too and have noticed some improvement, although just like you said, my legs seem off. I think I have a tendancy to make them too short. Anyway, keep up the work!

[CouchPotato]

Really sorry for the late update guys. Scanner died on me, had to get a new one. And sorry for the eh, waste paper basket quality of the scan lol. Some idiot at work decided to be helpful and "clean up my desk" haha.

So ok, just standard standing positions as Dimagyan says.

[DIMAGYAN]

this is the spirit i want to see! keep drawing people thats the best way to improve.

qbertp: ok thats a lot better. still you have to fix things(as you said) but is definitly better. to avoid proportions issues, draw ligthly all the figure and then concentrate in the details( that work almost for everything).

angie:if you want you can post your new practice.

CouchPotato:welcome! finally you post!, i think you went out of class to play some video games...
now serious, great start.practice all the time you can, and always watch proportions. as for the paper you can use some tissue if you want as long as you draw:) keep working and posting.

note for all of you: when i post the second assignment, please don't post more works from the first. i says this to mantein a certain order and attention to the tasks. but please keep working by your own in all the assignments and draw all of you can. maybe later we can make a special week or something like that to review your progress. i have to think about this.
anyway i will come later to post the second assignment.

btw search in internet for a pdf version of loomis books, because is very rare to find the "real" ones.

Diego

[yinteck]

Wait !! one last submission for assignment 1.

One thing i want to ask is when Andrew loomis book said "All figure action should be based on distribution of the weight of the body "

what does it mean can u explain in depth for that sir ?

Here is what i did , it will be great if u can explain with picture ..

[DIMAGYAN]

Hew Yin Teck: actually that would be part of the second assignment :)
but anyway, what loomis says is that you should think how and where the weight of the body is concentrated in a pose.
remember balance? well balance is an equilibrium, in this case of weigth. and the weight is deposited in a zone of contact beetwen the body and the surround. for example the pelvis and the chair, or the hands, knees and the floor.
without balance and distribution of weight we can't even be stand. when a figure is suspended (like in the water or in space and even in a jump) the weigth don't have a contact point, is distributed al over the body due to the miss or less gravity.(well to be more correct if there is not gravity there is not weigth, only mass)

well i think i wrote a mess, please note that what i said are thoughts and i don't have cientific knowldge.

209716
(if is posible post images until 800x600 pixels, thanks)

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

02

let's move our manekin.use your stick figures and manekin and start to play and practice.

remember: balance, weight distribution, center line and move all the body.

try walks, jumps, anything that you want. feel the movement and express that movement. if you want you can use life model or photographs, but remeber: express the movement, not just copy the picture.

well i think is that...go to draw some active stick figures:teeth:

209749

209747

Diego

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/motionstudy1.jpg

First attempt done without referance. I'll be doing more throughout the week. Thanks for the encouragement folks.

[CouchPotato]

t
CouchPotato:welcome! finally you post!, i think you went out of class to play some video games...
now serious, great start.practice all the time you can, and always watch proportions. as for the paper you can use some tissue if you want as long as you draw:) keep working and posting.


lol, does playing with a computer software count? :p This is my first entry for this assignment. Can I use a more fully fleshed out mannequin instead? lol, and I will try to pay extra care to my proportions. And I'll try and have at least a couple of new drawings updated every one or two days haha

Also, I got a whole bunch of Loomis books. Figure Drawing for all it's Worth, Drawing the Head and Hands, Successful Drawing, etc. etc. If anyone is interested we can see if we can't somehow figure out a way to share all those PDFs haha.

edit:
I just looked at my stuff, and I think there are HUGE proportion problems lol. The next batch WILL be better.

[CouchPotato]

Another day, another attempt.

[yinteck]

Here is my work....more to come.

Sir, i have another question. Beside the main line of balance there a 2 red dot line ( paintover ) what do they mean ? That figure is reference from loomis book.

If anyone of u guys want the loomis book just add yinteck86@hotmail.com to ur msn. Ill try to send to u guys, we can also discuss anything related to this class ! All the best and keep posting !:D

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp:good! the first figure is best. watch carefully all the body when ypu move the figure. try to do more curves in the limbs to make more dynamic the figure.
keep posting.

CouchPotato:computer games count! haha. well nice figures but, watch proportions, if you look carefully to the last figure you make(the one jumping) you see what i mean. the arm is way to long. not rush yourself! do some simplyfied manekins, do a lot. rigth now details and form are not important.
you are doing fine, just pay more attention. keep posting

hew yin teck: very nice! draw as much as you can. now about the question:
that lines are the balance of the figure. the center line it would be the center of gravity and the diagonal lines are the whole figure balance. is a guidance to make a balanced movement. when you make a movement, if you not make balance you fall. that lines are like the equilibrium zones.
try some figures doing some movement and think how to balance them.how the limbs help and all the body. later i post somehing.
keep posting.

[CouchPotato]

lol, actually I was trying to learn how to use this really irritating software called zbrush. Thanks for your teachings Dimagyan! I'll try and be more careful. Also, I'm just filling out the full form because it seems easier for me to grasp the proportions. Ehh, today's attempt.

[bradjames]

Hi everyone,

My name is Brad James and I'm just starting to learn to draw. I would really like to concentrate on figure/life drawings. I think this type of thread is fantastic and I'm very thankful I've been allowed to join in. I will work on the past assignments but I won't post them unless DIMAGYAN wants me to.

[meds]

I apologize for not uploading my work yet. I have had some major computer drama with my home computer this week (I am at work now), but I think it is finally fixed and I will hopefully upload my work tonight or tomorrow. However, even though my computer hates me, I have definitely been working on the assignment. I seem to still have some problems with proportions, but I think they are getting better with each figure I draw, so I will continue to practice.

[yinteck]

Here are more ...:teeth: Hope is better ..


Welcome Brad James :yayca: . Now go and DRAW ! :teeth:

[bradjames]

hahah I'm going I'm going..as soon as I get off work.

You've got great emotion/movement coming from these latest sketches. Only one that bugs me is the one sitting above the candle. I wonder if the weight should be a little more on that foot. It looks as though he is balancing on the tips of his toes. Besides that I think the look great.

[DIMAGYAN]

CouchPotato: ah ok, learning how to use a program is good. not problem, in fact im learning too:)

good figures. but please, fill the entire page! haha. make many figures as you can. if is easy to you make them more complex then ok, but i think you need some constructions under the figure. the point of this assignment is movement and balance.instead of focusing indetail and do two figures you can make six or more. take this as a suggestion.
keep posting

Brad: welcome! and please post your studies. take note that this friday is another assignment, so if you can make this two before friday it would be great.

Angie:don't worry computers are very tricky. when you can post your work.
keep it up

hew yin teck:very nice!.about the figure with the candle.i thonk that his flexioned leg is too high, the movement and the knee should be more near the floor. but as i said good work. keep posting

for all: one week is not enough time to nail something.you have to work all the time even when we do another assignment keep doing the lastest. practice is very important. and observe all the time.

oh, also try to find loomis books. in them you can find more knowldege and information than in this thread. is good for you to go to the original source, besides is an exellent read, with very good and informative drawings.

cheers

Diego

[bradjames]

ok guys this is my first study. I plan to go back over the lines to make them a little darker and clean but I wanted to get this assignment posted. Also sorry for the bad scan. I really need to figure out how to make that better.

So here it is...be nice now its the first one..ahahha

[yinteck]

Thanks for correcting it ! I really did not notice it when i draw the stick man.

[CouchPotato]

Ok Dimagyan, I'll draw as many mannequins as I can into a page lol. I'll start after this update though, sorry haha. Because I'm working and my office has barred access to ConceptArt, because it has "nudity" lol, so I can only check back at home, which is usually really late.

Can you explain a bit more about "construction under the figures" though? Or maybe I should go back and read through all your earlier posts, maybe it's buried in there somewhere. Haha, sorry for being a bad student.

[DIMAGYAN]

Brad: that's good. the paralel lines you made are not very paralel, and because of that the proportions of the first figure are not the same as the last figure. as i said before draw,draw,draw and observe a lot.i strong believe that observation is very important. try to scan in grey scale, it looks blurry maybe you mark an option in the scan panel?
keep posting

hew yin teck:no problem. try to feel the movement with your own body.do some acting, use a mirror, pictures. is important feel what you draw.
keep posting

CouchPotato:ok next time an entire page of manekins haha. well what i mean is that your figures are fine, but definition of the body comes after a good construction and observation. i understand what you say, because i always rush myself into a direct drawing. working with stick figures and manekin is good to understand why our body move and act, bones are the support to muscles so when you can draw a good construction your figure has a good foundation to build the entire body and not just the exterior look.(of course we are talking about understanding the figure. interpretation of the figure is another question).
but as i said if you feel more comfortable doing more detailed figures, do it.

i always work by insticnt and doing what i want. just recently i start to do studies and take care about the process.
keep posting


tomorrow new assignment

cheers

Diego

[S!R]

Can I participate here? Im a little unclear if that would be acceptable or if this is a 'closed class' type of deal.
Lemme know asap so I can do the appropriate homework!
:)

[meds]

I finally have my assignment. There are still a few computer problems, but my scanner is working! Anyway, here are some of the figures I have drawn. I still see some of the same problems, proportions and lack of confidence in lines. I am sure there are more too, but I am practicing. Sorry, but I accidentally cut off one of the legs. I will be more careful of that next time.

[DIMAGYAN]

S!R: yes this is a "closed to the public" thread. in the mentor thread is information about this forum section. anyway if you like you can participate, take note that you have to do all the assignments. this is not a one post type pf collaboration. so if you want you are welcome.

Angie: that's good. as i said before feel the movement. a good exercise could be make the movement you want to draw, look in a mirror and pictures.
just draw a lot and observe. keep posting

Diego

[qbertp]

I was having the usual issues of stiffness and proportion and then i started to change the angles of my bodies and the problems only got worse;) Sorry for the late update.

Oh and my name is Dylan.
And Angie's sitting frowny face just made my day;)

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/movestudy001.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/movestudy002.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/movestudy003.jpg

[meds]

qbertp - hahahaha! Yeah, I wasn't too happy with that figure. He is supposed to be sitting, but I am not sure what it looks like he is doing. Who would have thought that simple stick figures could be so difficult. This has definitely been a good exercise for me.

[DIMAGYAN]

Dylan: that's much better! you have to concentrate now in the proportions and how the body works.the lines are much better, keep it up.

as Angie said stick figures are dificult because you have to think why the body work and how to show the movement. stick figures are the raw of the movement, you can't hide anything. and also you have think in proportions too, because is the foundation of the figure.

[DIMAGYAN]

03

draw more stick figures or manekins, but this time i want to see a reference of your figure. look for any kind of photos (avoid fashion and photoshop manipulated pictures) and do the basic structure of that figure.

-observe the figure and draw the movement
-use the type of manekin or sticks that you use before
-express the movement (avoid straight lines in the limbs, make dynamic figures)

i want three figures per each of you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
03 extra
- try to find loomis books
- sketchbooks (http://conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41] [SIZE="2) (you can see great examples of figure drawing in there)
- The OFFICIAL Nude Figure Life Drawing Thread (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331] [SIZE="2) great examples of life drawing
- take a look to the others mentor thread, interesting thing are happen in there

try to learn a lot from everywhere.

ok that's all, now go draw!

Diego

[CouchPotato]

I'll just try to draw mannequins Dimagyan. Reason I find it easier to fill in details is because it's easier for me to gauge foreshortening lol. Also, I do have the construction lines when I do figures. I just erase them after I fill up the details haha. Habit.

Ok, anyway, I have make up homework lol, from the last assignment. I sort of filled up the page :p

Then I have the 3 you wanted Dimagyan, and the reference...I probably made some mistakes here and there, I'm doing this at 4 am in the morning lol, getting really sleepy and the double strength expresso's wearing off haha......

Ehhh, the references are paintings from Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema, John William Godward, and William Bouguereau. Hope those are ok references to take from.

[CouchPotato]

Since I can't make an update for the next few days, I thought I would try and squeeze something in. Why do I have the feeling I'm supposed to take this slow and easy and not rush like this? lol

And, uh, I've got almost all the Loomis books haha.

[yinteck]

Here are they. Picture found from www.characterdesigns.com and also www.morguefile.com.

This assignment is harder than i thought. ( have to analyse the bone of the human figure ,this is not easy for me )

I really have a hard time to draw the pelvis and the leg part . The upper body is ok , i can capture and feel the proportion of the upper body.

Problems
- for the leg, is seems like thay are not touching the ground .
- the most important part ( pelvis ). This is the area that make me struggle a lot. I cant really feel where they should be or where exactly to put them .

I'll think u'll understand what i said after u look at my drawing.
Is there any rules or things i should consider when drawing the lower body ( pelvis and leg ) ?

I would really like you to point out what mistake that i make when i did the drawing. Paint over would be great.

Thank you sir, for your time . Really appreciate that.
More to come.

[bradjames]

Hi everyone,

I've been busy working on past assignments and the newest one. The first two pictures are practices I've done from the Loomis book obvisouly. The last pic are the three ref poses and the ref images below that.

Sorry for the small pics on some of the ref images but I liked the pose they were in.

Also Dimagyan I would like to hear your vision in where these classes are headed. I know you asked us what we would like to learn but I was just wondering if you could give us some insight into this whole process. Do you plan to lead us along with the loomis book? While we get to a point where we make full figure drawings with nice shading.

Please dont take this as me wanting to hurry and move forward. I'm just curious more then anything.

Thanks again for all your help

[Rabbi Satan]

Hello folks, my name is John, I'm a 20 year old something aspiring artist. I decided to check all the threads in this forum out, and this one interested me the most. I have been doing all the previous 3 assignments over the past two days, and have roughly 12 sides of paper of poses in the skeletal mannequin form. I don't have a scanner with me handy at the moment, but I have one in my home in Hong Kong, which I am going to be returning to in a few days time. Where I will scan and post my studies and join in the fray! If you guys don't mind of course :)

But I have a question, and I realise that I may be going too far ahead at the moment, but it concerns bulking the skeletal mannequins in. Do we literally add the bulk to the skeletal mannequin already on paper, or do we draw in the bulk straight off the top of our heads, without any guide lines or gesture lines, or is it somewhere in between?

Thanks :)

(I'll try to see if my cousin has a scanner or a digital camera to see if I can post my works).

[yinteck]

bulk, bulking ??

[Rabbi Satan]

bulk, bulking ??

Hello there Yinteck :)

I was referencing a bit further down the road with the Loomis book, Figure Drawing for all it's worth, on page 44 where Loomis adds bulk to the skeletal mannequin. I guess "bulk" is a bit of a confusing word, I guess I should've used "mass" instead, as that's the more common terminology used.

I can draw the skeletal mannequin in almost any position now (With some difficulty with extreme foreshortening), and add mass to the underlying frame work. But I'm not able to draw the mass on its own in the middle of the paper and make it look convincing.

[DIMAGYAN]

hi john. glad you find this thread interesting, however im not accepting more people in here due a time and quantity posibilities. if you go to the oficial mentor thread you see my post where i wrote that i found "mentees" so for that reason this "class" is open to post only for the people who pm me and i accept.
im sorry i would like to help, but i can't take more people. you can follow the thread by your own if you want.

as for your question you can draw a manequin and then add the form, or draw the form directly. is not a rule, is about know the structure and the form. construction lines are helpful to make a good foundation for the final result.
and helps also to understand proportions.

i hope it helps.

best of luck

Diego

[Rabbi Satan]

Ah, ok, sure, no problem :) I'll just quietly bow out of the thread then, my apologies, I was under the impression that it was sort of an open thread. Once again, my most sincere apologies :)

I'll just follow the thread from behind the scenes if you don't mind, but I won't post in here any more.

[DIMAGYAN]

couch potato, Brad , Hew yin teck: i will comment on your post later, but good work.

RabbiSatan:no problem.please follow the thread, i hope it helps in something.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
just to make a side note to ocasional viewers: please don't post in here, i try to mantein this thread only for works of the "mentees", assignments and crits.

feel free to follow the thread by your own.

if you need a mentor or you wanna be one go to the official mentoring thread in this forum.

thanks

Diego

[yinteck]

Here is more , still have the problems like what i said in previous post :(

[meds]

First, I just got the Loomis book today, so I plan to start studying it as much as possible. I hope that it will show in my figures. Second, here is my assignment this week. I am a little disappointed in it mainly because I don't feel like I really studied the movement as much as I should have. When I continue to work on the assignment, I am going to attempt to focus more on the movement and balance, but for now this is a start. I found the images on Mia Micheal's website.

[qbertp]

Sonny Liston took a fall:(
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/pictures.jpg
First set
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/poses1.jpg
Second set
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/poses2.jpg

I did them twice and I think they all got better(still flawed but better). The soccer players legs continued to throw me for a loop. I know that the kicking leg is too long but I feel like I have to get the knee past the elbow of the arm above it.

Oh and my black pen ran out of ink:(

[DIMAGYAN]

sorry for the late reply.

CouchPotato: you are right, there is no need to rush yourself!. take your time to do the assignments. is not about quantity. good work

hew yin teck: good work. well place the features is hard when you don't know the location. look always for bones indications on the surface.look the sketch i did for more on this subject. the feet position and how interact with the floor is important. you have to observe is not better way.

brad: good work. observe and don't rush yourself. take your time to draw and to look the subject. as for your question read bellow.

angie: you are right. concentrate more in the action and look for principal elements and lines. observe very carefully the reference. this assignment was more about see an action and try to convey that feel and motion. good work

dylan: the second row is much better. however try to work on the entire figure. you do the neck too thick.good work

ok i made some corrections in a couple of your figures. i made one per each one of you.(i still working in my lifedrawings/reference skills:nohope:)

217413217466

217411

220016
edit:fix right leg issue
217415

217465


for all: you have to start to observe and don't jump onto the page inmediatly.
in order to do good drawings you have to do several bad drawings. if you can work a lot on a bad drawing to later find what was wrong, then you can learn.

if you see something that don't fit quite well then spend more time and do it again. self crtits are the best way to improve. after all you have to draw no one will do it for you. so stay focus and invest time and effort. always observe your surround. look at yourself, your family and friends, people in the street or private locals.

to undersatnd the why you have to observe. then you can think in the how, observe more and do. (i continue with the observation sermon, because for me is very important and is something i still working on)

good work all, i hope you mantein that spirit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
as for the question of brad:

maybe i shoul post this at the start of this thread, but well...

i don't have the intention to make a "class" of loomis books. i don't see the point on that.in his books you will find a lot of information and good drawings, with a better presentation and better english than mine :) . im not a teacher or art student. so my idea is based on my own experience and problems try to help.
this thread is just a place to draw and get feedback. im learning too.
all the links i give to you, the books i say you find, are tools for your learning.
you have to learn from everything and everywhere.

so based on what you said before about your goals i try to help.
i want also that you collaborate with each other.
this a place to work, cirt and have fun.(at least i hope so)

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

04

draw two figures:

-stand pose

-action pose

draw them from imagination, but using a manequin as a base.
add flesh, but not clothes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

04 b

write what you think is wrong, and what you think is rigth about the figures you made in the assignment 04.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

04 extra

-if you do the 03 extra, then do it again;)
-tell me what you think about this thread so far.

ok that's all.

happy drawing

Diego
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[meds]

I am going to do the extra part of 04 assignment now. I really enjoy this thread so far and feel like I am learning so much. I am self-taught so any type of lesson is beneficial for me. I think DIMAGYAN is doing a great job as a mentor and I look forward to each week's assignments, especially now that they are getting more challenging (at least they are for me). His advice for each assignment is also helpful for me.

One thing that I would like to see happen more often in this thread is more critiques, adivce and communication between all of us mentees, but I assume that will happen more often as we start to get to know each other.

Anyway, great work so far everyone! :)

[CouchPotato]

Dimagyan, thanks for pointing out to me my mistakes again haha. I think I need better time management or something. And better control over my impatience (I want to get better, faster, but that's not how it works I guess haha).

Anyhow, I've been neglecting this mentor thread for a bit this week, because I've been really caught up with some other thing at the moment. I did not expect it to so completely consume my attention for so many days haha.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1486405&postcount=240

This is what I've been working on the past few days. I don't want to clutter up Dimagyan's mentor thread with unrelated stuff so, this is just a link to my SB lol.

I'm going to take my time through this assignment. Will post one when I'm done!

[bradjames]

Dimagyan thanks for pointing out the issues in my last assignment. I certainly see what you mean and I will work on slowing down and looking for those curves in the body. Its almost fun how are it is to make a stick man look balanced and with life...ahahha

ok so I started on the new assignment and decided to make myself draw over and over the same two poses until I get these right. Below you can see where I'm at so far. I think the third one in my Stand Pose is the better one but I will work more on him. I've on only done two tries at the other pose.

I do have a question about adding flesh? What do you mean exactly? Do you mean to just add a few lines to give the idea of flesh like you did when you reposted our last models with the corrections?

As for commenting on the two poses so far I think i will wait because I know they both need work

So far I think the thread is good and it certainly keeps me working when I know I have assignments to do. I realized that learning to give life to such a simple model is hard and very very important. I hope we can all start to give more feedback to each other and would like to see a lots of posts by everyone.

ok so here is my work so far

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/standingandmotion.jpg

Pros:
first: I found the pose interesting and I think it looks fairly balanced.
second: I think my proportions have gotten better. I also like the hand he has rested on his leg though I feel like he could be putting more weight on it.
General: I was trying to maintain scale between them and I think I did a decent job.

Cons:
First: I think the first is a bit hippy or maybe just leggy.(too much of one or the other) and her shoulders might be too narrow. They seemed too wide at first and I might have gone to far changing them.
Second: I think the second looks a bit like he's made of rubber. But that could be because of his head mainly.
General: Oh and obviously hands feet and faces would be nice. In addition I still need alot of work in rendering different angles.

Extra:
As for the thread I think it's going well. I woudn't mind a little more homework. Just longer assignments really. Obviously all of assignments are things that we should be practicing on our own but having the requirement is a nice kick in the ass.
I think that the critiques will pick up as we gain a higher level of confidence in what we are doing as well.

Any comments on these would be apreciated and I will probably post at least one more set by the end of the week. Midterms for my students so lots of free time this week.

Dylan

EDIT: Just decided to muddy up the spartan training thread in the future so I guess longer assignments aren't really that necessary.;)

[DIMAGYAN]

i will comment on your posts later.

as for brad question:

i wrote flesh, but mass would be more correct. i want to see a more structure figure. dont make details, just enough information to see form.
sorry for not explain better the first time.

keep the good work everybody

Diego

[meds]

I am breaking up the assignment a little bit because so far I have only worked on the standing figure. I will post the action figures later. The first figure I used a reference from Loomis' book, but I did not use reference for the rest. Sorry for the lines on the paper. I friend gave me a little notebook with lines, but it is actually helping me with proportions, and it is a nice sized book that I can easily take to work with me. Also, sorry for the crappy scan.

Likes-
My proportions are slowly looking a little more correct
I am starting to study Loomis and it is helping a lot, and I hope it is starting to show in my figures.
My lines are slowly looking more confident


Dislikes-
There is still so much room for improvement with my proportions
I need to continue to work on using long flowing lines
My figures seem stiff

[yinteck]

Ok, here is my work.

Standing pose
1) I feel nothing special for it but i know the figure is not balance is slightly slanting to the right. I found out this when i scan the picture.

2) I think the connection between joint or the proportion is slightly off also but this i cant really see what wrong ( just my feeling ).

Action pose
Pretty happy with this. Everythings is ok for me. Only thing i think is wrong is maybe foreshortening of the right leg ? ( thigh )

04 extra
Well, i think this class is going well. I am improving with DIMAGYAN teaching and guide. ( sir , your english is good ) Now i give u a hug. *HUG*:rendered:
I really appreciate your time and guide .


As for others i think u guys did a good job .:yayca: I kinda agreed with meds " One thing that I would like to see happen more often in this thread is more critiques, adivce and communication between all of us mentees, but I assume that will happen more often as we start to get to know each other. " I think this is very important too.

[yinteck]

meds, using book with line is good for guidance. The bad thing is it will make you form a habbit and depending the line.
You can use ruler, even u use ruler is hard to draw a 90' vertical line or vise versa in a middle of a blank paper without any guide ( this actually can help ur eye coordinate ). Well, this is just my thought.
Gd luck and happy drawing.

[meds]

yinteck - Yeah, I totally agree about the lines. They can be a great help, but also can form habit and that is definitely not what I want. My plan is to only use the book with lines while I am at work since it is small and easy to use, but while I am at home or have my sketchbook handy, then I will use that. Until I buy a sketchbook that I can easily take to work, this little book with lines will have to do.

By the way, nice figures. I envy everyone's clean lines. That is something that I really need to work on.

[meds]

Here are my action figures. I hope it is fine that I have more than just one.

Likes - Like I said before, the proportions are slowly looking more correct, and I think these action figures are probably my best so far.

Dislikes - I still need to "feel the action." My lines need to look cleaner, and I still need to work on proportions, especially the lower body.

[CouchPotato]

This is my contribution for this week's assignment lol. I drew a lot of thumbnail poses before I settled on something that I liked, whereupon I fleshed them out later. I hope this is what you meant by mass Dimagyan lol. My fingers need more work haha.

And I really took my time this time round :p

Edit:
I think this thread is great Dimagyan. Half the times when I do my own work and post it in my SB it feels as if I'm working in a vacuum, and people kinda just drop by with advice once in a while. This is better. Doing in a group, you get some form of interaction, and because you regularly come in to critique and guide, the help we've been getting is more spontaneous I would say.

I think I'm going to put more effort into looking at and giving critiques on the others, like yin teck or brad. I'mma try and make a point of doing that more regularly!

[meds]

I think I notice some improvement from all of us, so that is encouraging. :teeth:

[DIMAGYAN]

ok first, sorry for the late reply. :)

second:

thanks all for your kind words about this thread, and your participation.much appreciated.
feel free to post your thoughts about the assignments and this thread.
i want that all of you participate and collaborate. comunication is vital (if you can understand my raw english of course:teeth: )

and third: to the works

Brad: yes stick figures and manequin are not easy, is a raw figure.
well you dont made the assignment( only half) so not much to say.
finish it. also the assignments are long, the thing is any task need time to do it.
you have to observe and work even before your pencil touch the paper.
process is important, and preparation too.

CouchPotato: so you took your time,ah? good. the figures are fine, but there is some issues i made some corrections in one. work with simpliest forms. detail come later. from big to small. oh... you forgot the 4b assignment:upset:
keep it up.

Dylan: good. agree with almost everythig you say about your pros and cons.
i made some corrections in one of your figures. work with forms, try to feel and convey the body.
keep it up

angie:good work. agree with your likes and dislikes. i made some corrections to one of your figures. keep an eye on your proportions, and...yes study loomis!(you have the books, great) don't worry about paper or materials, that's not important.
keep it up

hew yin teck:good work! and constance. agree with some of your thoughts about your figures. the stand figure is nice. the hip plcement is akward(only the skeleton) but what is a bit off is the head, you have two perspectives in the same head(face and head angles are off). on the second figure i made some
corrections.
keep it up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

for all:

good work. practice and draw all that you can.observe and internalize.
study but also draw what you want, have fun.

you can see a couple of notes about offset curves. i don't have documentation about it but i will search something(if someone know some lecture, book or site please pm me thanks).
symmetrical curves are boring and don't have flow. if you look your body you will see asymmetrical curves and shapes, you will se rhythm. there is more but this is the basic(well what i know at least).

the 4b assignment was the most important part: self crits. knowing what is wrong and what is good is an important part of the process. honesty helps the creation.when you see something that is wrong or you don't quite like in your work, then do it again. the lesson is don't wait to someone to tell you what you have to change or fix. if you are not happy with something, keep working until you are content. be confident but be honest, and be critic with yourself. (ah sorry for the sermon)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

now corrections

221834

221835

221836

221837

cheers

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

-------------------------------------------------------
05

draw more manequins!

-one figure in a stand position

work in the figure until you feel that everything is correct.
only post the figure when you think is done.
keep the detail low (work with basic forms)
try to convey the form
make expressive lines

-------------------------------------------------------

05 extra: do 03 extra again!

and post five stick figures

that's all

happy drawing

Diego
-------------------------------------------------------

[yinteck]

Thanks sir, agreed what you said and ill do more studies and drawing .

One question, in 05 extra
Did you mean we draw 5 figure with reference ?
Because 03 extra is -




03 extra
- try to find loomis books
- sketchbooks (http://conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41] [SIZE="2) (you can see great examples of figure drawing in there)
- The OFFICIAL Nude Figure Life Drawing Thread (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331] [SIZE="2) great examples of life drawing
- take a look to the others mentor thread, interesting thing are happen in there


Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

sorry if i wasn't clear. what i mean was the 03 extra + five stick figures (with or without reference).
if you want you can use reference or do it even from life.

[CouchPotato]

lol, omg, I can't believe I got the toe placement wrong!!11!!! Someone please give me a really hard knock on the head! lol

Ok, gonna work harder on this one.

[meds]

I just want to let everyone know that I have a little vacation planned for later this week. Because of this, there is a slight possibility that I will not be able to scan in my assignment. I don't want to rush the assignment just to get it in on time, so if I can't get it done before I leave, then I will post it in my sketchbook and will provide a link to it so that you can see that I actually did the assignment. Of course, if DIMAGYAN doesn't care if I post it here a little late, then I will just post it when I get back from my trip.

*runs off to study Loomis*

[DIMAGYAN]

no problem angie, post the assignment when you return from vacations.

[yinteck]

DIMAGYAN, i cant upload my work , i think this have to do with the upgrading work on the web. Is been 2 days now.
Can i send you my work through other ways ?

Ill try to PM Davi i see what's happening...

[DIMAGYAN]

yinteck, try to do this: change the image size and quality 800x600 is a good size, and mid, high quality can work. if none of this work send me a link or an email with your work

[yinteck]

Ok , here my assignment. All the work is from ref except for the stand pose.
Tell me if u want me to post the ref too.

Stand pose
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/Standpose.jpg

Work from Ref
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/Drawwithref3.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/Drawwithref2.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/Drawwithref1.jpg


I hope i have show some improvement .:[

[qbertp]

Had to go over lines in pen rather quickly so they would scan and made a couple of mistakes. There are some problems with the mannequin as far as symetry go that I probably made worse in the redrawing. But I notice them more now, so I guess that's good.

On the upside I feel much better about my sticks than previously. I'm starting to get a better feel for the forms in three dimensions.

Standing
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/basicmuscle.jpg
Sticks
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/sticks.jpg
More Sticks
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/moresticks.jpg

[CouchPotato]

This is what I have at the moment. The extras, I'll put up sometime later, coz I'm in a rush atm, but good work guys. I'll post more of what I think when I get back from my work later tonight.

[DIMAGYAN]

ok time for reply.

good work everyone!.

all of you are doing a better work.

yinteck: you are doing fine, but start to think in the shapes as form. try to convey volume and form. don't just cover the bones, think where the bones appears in the surface. look at yourself and others. you can feel in yourself the elbow the hips and many others part, you can touch the knee in your leg.
do the acting of your drawing. don't do a mechanical building. express yourself trough every stroke.

you do all the part of the assignment. very good. but the extra was only draw stick figures. you do a more complete figures. anyway practice both, keep drawing them.

keep it up


qbertp:much better. think in the form, don't make a mechanical interpretation of the figure. use basic shapes to build the figure. keep an eye on balance and perspective.

the stick figures are fine, but you have to pay attention to proportions
and general aspect of the body. observe yourself and others.
keep studying loomis. internalize every aspect. observe from life thats the best way.
good work

keep it up

CouchPotato: another time you don't do the extra! mmm... you will post that later, no?

nice figure. the construction is quite solid, but there is a couple of considerations that you will see in the corrections i made.
if you have loomis, study it. observe from life and yourself. as i said to yinteck, feel the figure you are drawing. you can feel and touch many bones on the surface of your own body. use a mirror, act the pose so everything that help the figure understanding.

good work

keep it up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

corrections and notes

226201

226197

226200

cheers

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

06

yes more mannikins!

draw two figures. both in a stand pose.

-one with basic forms. i want to see clear shapes (there is no need for detail)
-one with basic forms, but drawing in big blocks.

draw the blocks trying to sense form.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

06 extra

spend some time watching other people, photagraphs.
just observate, don't draw.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok that's all

cheers

Diego

[CouchPotato]

Yo guys. Hehe, as a matter of fact, I went to the park today to finish up the extras for assignment 5.

I sat around and looked at people for a while and tried to draw them into my sketchbook. It's very hard, because everyone keeps moving! Haha. Anyhow, I was only able to get off 3 before it started to rain lol.

I think both yinteck and qbertp are showing a lot of improvements from the first assignment lol. Great work guys!

Dimagyan, what do mean by planes? Is it possible to show us what you mean?

Also, thanks so much for being our mentor! I love your critiques. I'm saving them all and printing them out. Maybe I'll bind them into a book when I have enough lol, and call it Dimagyan's book of crits. Or something.

[DIMAGYAN]

couchpotato: nooooooo, don't make a book!... well if you do it at least make some corrections to my english! haha. glad you find useful my crits.

you do sketches from life. nice. the extra was only stick figures, but anyway is a good practice and also very estimuating.

couple of considerations: draw all the figure. draw from the general to the specificity. leave details for the last part.

about the assignment: sorry i make an edit in the 06 assignment post.

draw the figure with big blocks. (planes describe light and shadows. blocks help to understand form and make solid drawings)

light and shadows are not important in this.

see andrew loomis figure drawing for all it's worth and george bridgman's books constructive anatomy, the human machine.

look for these books. all the information you want and need is in there.

some examples i made. (see loomis examples and made your own too)

227971

go draw!

Diego

[yinteck]

Ok, here is my work. I hope iam doing the right thing. Tell me if i am wrong , i will redo them.:)

Basic form 1
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/1.jpg


Basic form 2
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/yinteck/2.jpg

[CouchPotato]

Hmm, are we supposed to do both the figures in planes? lol, I think I might have done this assignment incorrectly then.

Well, anyway, I don't like my second one so I'll re-do that haha.

yinteck, your forms are very nice. There's some proportional issues around the hips region I think? And I might be wrong, but I also have the feeling that your lower legs are too short. Try not to pose your figures with weight on both legs dude. You can have a much more rhythmic pose with your first basic form, and I would suggest resting the weight a LOT more on the back leg in the second basic form.

Ok, enough with my two cents lol. Will be back after I change my second form.

[meds]

I am back from my little vacation. It was fun, but now I am ready to get back to drawing! I am at work most of the day today, but I hope to scan in my assignments later this evening.

Keep up the good work everyone!

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/basicformsandblocks.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/basicform1.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/basicblocks1.jpg

Sorry for the low quality, of the scan and the work, I've had a bad cold all week that's made concentrating on anything for too long difficult. I figured it was better to turn in something than nothing. I'll work on another set for next week.

[DIMAGYAN]

sorry for the delay on the reply.

good work everyone.

yinteck:the first figure is very good. the hip is a bit wider. but good work on the construction and pose. watch the shoulder(they don't macth the torso place)

the second figure is nice too, but in there you have some perspective problems in the head. watch the construction of the arms. the torso and legs are well done.there is nothing wrong in make a pose with the weight on the two feet, but keep in mind the action line and the movement. the right leg should have more weight to support, i believe.

keep it up

couchpotato: you did a good job. try to make light pencil lines to get the form
the first figure is fine. the pose is a bit foeced in the torso/waist area.
read again my comment on your last assignment about your feet and curves.
the blocks are fine.

the second figure is good but there are a couple of details. the hip is a bit narrow. also make the limbs more assymetrical.
the pose is forced in the feet. the right foot is to on the outside of the center line of the body.
nice gesture on the hands and face.

keep it up

med:post your work when are done.
EDIT: good work. the stick figures are fine. the figures are nice but keep in mind proportions, sometimes you made short figures or long limbs. try to observate more your drawings. good work on the blocks.
keep it up

qbertp: hope you be better.
nice work with the figures.the first pose is not working well.every part is point in many directions. try to think in the balance of all the body.
second figure has perspective problems. and proportions issues. make the blocks simple.observe your drawing. i know you were with cold,but this are some observations that i think are important.
the third and four figures are better. the legs are to short and the hip in the third is to wide.
good work
keep it up.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
good work. look for reference if you don't know how to do something. to draw from imagination you have to feed your memory, observate think and sense the form(well i believe in this at least. i could be wrong,though.)
i post the next assignment tomorrow. if i can i make some drawing corrections, but my weekend is busy.

EDIT: some corrections

232122

232125

232126

232121

232123

232134
cheers,
Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

07

draw a more defined figure:

-face is not important in this.
-work with basic form and then add detail
-use reference/loomis books to make details.

make the figure clear, don't put unnecesary detail.

---------------------------------------------------

that's all

happy drawing

Diego

[meds]

Here are my past assignments. Sorry for being so late. My schedule should be back to normal now.

[qbertp]

Diego, I was wondering if you could give a quick example of what your looking for. I'm a little unsure.

[DIMAGYAN]

Dylan, the idea is draw a mannikin but with some detail. look for the things that make an arm look like an arm. in where bones shows in the surface?
i want to see how you represent a figure, beyond the basic structure.
i want to see your decisions on your representation, what you want to show and what not.

you can use references or loomis, a mirror a family member or friend.
not make a copy of a photo or a model. draw the basic figure and then if you needed, look for references to make the surface.

235217


i hope this help

Diego

[qbertp]

At the moment I'm building a muscle man and I'm not sure if it's really the right direction to be going.
;/

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/muscledefinition.jpg

This is what I have so far.

[CouchPotato]

This is my assignment for the week! I screwed up the composition though..I squashed my figure to much to one side...

Edit:
noted some mistakes, so corrected them.

[yinteck]

THANKS sir, for the correction.
Here is my homework. :[

[meds]

I decided to do both a male and female figure, and probably will from here on out unless told not to. I don't want to end up being able to draw one strong male figure but weak female figure, and vise versa. Anyway, I feel like my female is lacking a lot, and I am not sure if I put enough detail on either figure because I really don't know anything about muscles and bones. I drew the figures first without reference, and then used Loomis to correct some mistakes that I noticed and to add some of the detail.

Sorry for the horrible scan and all the paint globs. I seriously need to clean off my scanner.

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp: you are doing better. but you have to work more with basic forms and start to look references and people in general. a muscle map not was part of the assignment. in any case you need to develop from basic big shapes to the specificity. the hands and feet are not good. you did hands with big three fingers, and with the feet something similar.
work harder.

keep it up


CouchPotato:good. try to draw ligthen. look for references, your feet are better but still you don't know how a foot look or why have that particular form and movement.
you made muscles details like in a plate. that was not necesary. many of the muscles you make are invented.if you don't know how to draw something look for references.
use a mirror, do some act. muscles information are fine but first is the basic form.
feed your memory

keep it up


yinteck:good. try to sense and think the pose. you need to know and sense the limits in the joints. use references, mirror watch people.
look references

keep it up


meds:good. pay attention to proportions. male and female figures has similar structure but with difference in some bones, proportions and fat distribution.
you need to know the basic of one and the differences with the other.
the female you did, has the waist and hip area very similar to a male(navel is below the waist in women)
watch proportions

keep it up

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
for all: ok, i hope you take the crits and comments from above in a good way.
i began to repeat things, so i will try to be more direct with the comments(tell me if you don't want to) but also you have to work by your own in every one of this assignments and anything that find useful. if you have the loomis or bridegman books, study.
a week is not enough to do something, you have to keep doing by your own.
practice and observe.

btw: try to scan in gray scale. that would help to make more clear your drawings.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
some corrections

236982

236983

236980

236981
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

i will post next assignment later.

cheers

Diego

[meds]

Thanks for the critiques, DIMAGYAN. You can be as tough and direct with me as you need to be. I don't mind. However, I do have a question. "Watch proportions" has been a steady critique for me, and I am really trying to learn proportions, but I am curious to know two things. One, have I shown some improvement with the proportions? Two, is there a certain proportion mistake that you are noticing over and over again, such as lower body, or is it pretty much all proportions of the body? I want to know if there is a certain area that I need to study the most this week. I really, really want to beat this proportion problem.

Thanks again for all your helpful advice. I can't say enough how much I have learned in this little class. Before this, I almost always stuck to portrait type drawings, so these figures that you have us draw are literally some of my first figure drawings, and I really apprciate the help and feedback.

[DIMAGYAN]

meds: im glad i can help. when i say watch proportions i mean:look at your drawing, see what works and what not. there is differences in the cannons of proportions. the important thing is see the relation of every part of the figure. is too short? long limbs? small head?.

what i notice in your figures is that you draw short figures(specialy the lower part of the body as you say).
you are using loomis, right? study the proportions in there, draw several figures.
in general you put detail without a solid basic form. you draw the last assignment without doing a basic figure, right?

all of you show some improvement, but keep in mind this: drawing the figure is not a one month practice. one month is really nothing in time and practice.
i'm drawing figures since i was a child and still my figures are not good.
you see my point? i look at my corrections of last week and i see mistakes.

improvement can only be achieved if you can develop a selfcrit spirit(of course, this is what i believe)

don't worry about your progress too much, just enjoy drawing. improvement shows in time.

cheers

Diego

[meds]

Thanks! I had a feeling that I was making my figures short. I will keep that in mind this week. I plan to do a figure study from Loomis every day this week to keep practicing the overall proportions.

For the last figure, I did draw a base figure first, although I drew a mannequien rather than drawing the basic blocks. I am going to make sure that I do the blocks and basic shapes as well as the mannequin next time.

Thanks again!

[DIMAGYAN]

08

let's draw more mannikins!

draw a quick basic figures in different positions

-basic forms, without detail
-draw five figures

try to convey form. you can use references for the positions
sense and express the action and movement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

happy drawing

Diego

[CouchPotato]

Hey Dimagyan, thanks for your crits. Please be as direct as you can with me, because I'm not so smart, so if you go a roundabout way, chances are, I won't catch it lol. Hit me with a sledgehammer please!

Having said that though, I might not be able to make it for this week's assignments. My net work is having serious issues at the moment, I need to get it fixed, but it might take a bit of time. I'll still try to do something. Maybe some of that Bridgman studies you talked about lol. Or whatever I can for the next assignments haha.

Sorry, and thanks again for your help. I'm going to make a better effort to remember my anatomy lol.

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/threebasicforms.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/threebasicforms2.jpg

Here are mine for the week. And for the record harsh critiques are ok by me(I figure everyone else was saying it...)
Cheers
Dylan

[yinteck]

Ok, here is my work. All done with reference.
Well, conclusion in doing this assignment is - if i dont have any reference i cant draw anything ....:nohope:

DIMAGYAN, is ok if you want to go more direct in the critique. no problem for me.

[meds]

yinteck - Don't worry because I think we all do better with references. I know that this week, the references I am using are helping a lot, although I still can't draw. Hahahaha! But I am getting better and am determined.

Anyway, I want to give my two cents worth. I have read before that if we have trouble drawing something, it may be because we don't really know what it looks like. And I think that goes along perfectly with what DIMAGYAN is saying when he tells us to feed our memories. We have to observe and study, so we should be proud that we are using references because that is exactly what is going to feed our minds so that we can draw better in the future. I am starting to see references as just another artist's tool that is used just like a pencil or paintbrush.

[qbertp]

Alot of times I try to use a referance as a sort of control picture. And then build others off of what I've set up with the referance. Of course if you don't observe the referance carefully everything else gets even more messed up.

[meds]

Here is my assignment. Unfortunately, these are not the ones I wanted to submit. These were originally done for practice, and I wanted to do better ones last night, but due to car problems I didn't get a chance. Anyway, for all of these I used Andrew Loomis as reference. I tried not to spend more than 10 minutes on the figure because I didn't want to copy the reference, but instead wanted to just focus on the shapes. I have a feeling that I could have gone even more basic with the shapes than I did.

The first figure I used basic shapes, but then just kept drawing and shading, so I am sorry for the fact that it is too detailed. I am still dealing with proportion problems, but the last female figure (the one with her hands behind her head) is my favorite because I think her proportions are probably more correct than all the rest. Sorry for that male figure that I started but never finished. Critique me as hard as you need too.

[DIMAGYAN]

time for reply

good work everyone. nice to see your dedication to this assignment.

CouchPotato:don't worry. work, do some studies. when you have this assignment done, post it in here.

qbertp:good work!, nice figures.in general you are doing better figures than your first attempt. now you have to concentrate in form. try to sense and convey form. try to make figures with simple forms, but with interpretation. feet are better stil need work. try to avoid the curves you made in arms, legs and torso.
watch proportions. figure two has long arms, for example.
observe and use references to see how the body works.
good work

keep it up


yinteck:very good! nice figures and poses. you have to work on some issues with foreshortening and perspective, but practice and observation are the best way to improve so don't worry. there is many way to work with simple forms, but to be honest im not quite sure about your aproach in the torso, abdomen, hip area and joints. i think that would be a good exercise draw every part of the figure or at least the important one. i don't know i could be wrong but i think you
could draw also the joints. anyway just a suggestion.
references are a good help but don't make a perfect copy of a picture, look the position but feel free to add what a picture can't capture. make ryhthms in the figure, add dynamism expression.
good work

keep it up


meds:i agree with what you said about your figures. the proportions are better, and the shapes too. however need more work(i think that all what we do can be better, allways is room for improvement,no?)
watch balance and relations between angles and measures. watch carefuly your reference, and work with simple shapes all the figure before add detail.
observate and practice.
good work

keep it up
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
some corrections

241141

241139

241140

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
for all:
yes! as med said, references information, lifedrawing, practice,observation.
observation is a key element to draw from imagination.you can only draw what you know. interpretation, representation and stylization all this need observation. you can draw without references, references is not an obligation yinteck. observation and time are very important, i draw all my life without direct references (photographs, life) but i allways observate and when i was a kid and teen i did drawings of my favourites comics or cartoons. i watched others drawers to see how they do something.now i do studies from life, from photographs, everything has some charm. i allways look to my drawings and try to see how to do better. why? how?: you have to ask that to yourself all the time. you see my point? everyone draw what they know, and everyone draw from "references" because references are information. you know how a telephone looks, the thing is that you never really pay attention to it. the form, angles,shapes, details. is a problem of memory. thats why i say feed your memory, observate, look for refernces when you don't know how something looks. studies, references, information, observation: is all good.
why limit yourself to do something only from memory or only from references?
use all to grow, to create.

sorry for the sermon:)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
cheers

Diego

[yinteck]

Thanks everyone. Ill keep that in mind all time.:confident
For the homework i agreed with you sir, ill draw the joint and the important part next time. Thanks again everyone really really appreciate that.

I have a suggestion. Do you guys thinks is good if we have a major assignment for every 2 weeks or maybe 3 or in a month ? Duration for the assignment is like 2 weeks or something ?

Is like we do the weekly homework and every in X week we will be given a major homework to do by our mentor, DIMAGYAN. Is more like applying everything we learn in X week into the major homework and is a more complete work ( not sketchy work ). And we mentees can post WIP so that we can comment on each other work ( in this wip everyone must participate ) so that we can share knowledge and opinion and if we r wrong we can correct each other. In the submission day, our mentor DIMAGYAN, will comment what we did wrong and why . Finally i think this will make us mentees participate more in the class.

Just a suggestion .

[meds]

yinteck - I personally think that is a great idea as long as everyone is willing to do a little extra work and DIMAGYAN is willing to come up with the assignment. The way I see it is that we would have weekly homework assignments and then a final exam at the end of the month (or whatever the time frame is). We would know what the exam is and would have all month to work on it, and each weekly assignment could help us with the big exam. I like your idea about posting the WIPs and have everyone give feedback. I think all of this could be a great learning experience.

[DIMAGYAN]

is a nice idea, however im not very sure about the time. to be honest with you i was thinking in stop the "class" at the ten assignment (that would be two weeks more). don't worry you don't do it anything wrong.the reasons im thinking in this are:

-i feel i did "teach" you what i know and what i bealive.im not very sure if i can
help you with something more deep.

-have different mentors is a good way to have a more wide panorama of things.

-i don't want start to repeat things, thus start to sound boring and less
motivated.

i bealive that there is a time and moment for everything.

sorry, i know this is not the type of answer you expected(and i should say this at the start of the "class")

tell me what you think.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
best,

Diego

(i will post the 09 assignment later)

[meds]

I can't say that I am thrilled with the thought of the class ending so soon because I feel like I just got to the point where I have tried to put more dedication and work into it. However, I also understand if you feel like you don't have anything else to give. Maybe if you teach another class, just make sure to say from the beginning what the class length will be so that everyone knows what to expect. This is a learning experience for all of us. I will say that I think you have done a good job.

I also feel like I have been given enough information to move forward on my own a little bit, so obviously this mentoring thread was successful. It may be nice for all of us to stay updated with each other's sketchbooks so that we can continue to give helpful feedback even after the class ends.

[DIMAGYAN]

Maybe if you teach another class, just make sure to say from the beginning what the class length will be so that everyone knows what to expect. This is a learning experience for all of us.

yes you are right. to be honest i have to say that this thread was made in the fly, i didn't know how to expect or if i could help someone. it was my first try in a mentor experience.
sorry if i disapoint anyone. you have to know that for sure was a learning experience for me too.

I also feel like I have been given enough information to move forward on my own a little bit, so obviously this mentoring thread was successful. It may be nice for all of us to stay updated with each other's sketchbooks so that we can continue to give helpful feedback even after the class ends.

im glad to read that. i said before that i want to be more a bit of help than a mentor or teacher.
so if you feel that you learn something and that could help in your personal learning, thats good for me.
i bealive more in give tools than fix problems, like "teach to fish instead of give fish" scenario(sorry for the stereotype filosofical aproach)
i hope all of you will support each other and maybe participate in another mentor experience (in clasroom for all seedling and ilaekae are posting good exercises)

cheers,

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
09

draw a basic figure in the position you want

remember:

-draw what you know, find references for what you don't.

-watch proportions and balance

-take your time

this assignment would be the skecth for the next assignment,
so take your time and draw a position you like, to build details in the 10 assignment.

to find a position you like, make quick sketches with low amount of detail.
from all the sketches pick the one you liked to work.

post your process too(the sketches you discard).

go draw now, and happy sketching

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
cheers,

Diego

[yinteck]

Wow, i am surprise when you said that, is like- what the hell!! :( . I thought it will be longer though.

...times fly so fast in this class, i really enjoyed the way you teach us and the knowledge you share with us. To be honest , i really enjoyed this class, just sad it is ending.

Finally, i have one last request, when the last class come, can you tell us what is our weakness and the positive side in our drawing ? What should we work on the most - individually. Take this as the last guide or something.

meds - ya, i sure will stay update for each one work. That a promise for all.

[meds]

yinteck - Thanks! I am going to subscribe to everyone's sketchbook so that I can leave feedback. I know that I personally plan to continue similar exercises that we have been doing in this class and plan to post them in my sketchbook. I hope that everyone else does too so that we can watch each other's progress.

[qbertp]

Diego,
I'm sorry to hear the class is ending soon and I wanted to thank you for all your help. I was wondering if you were planning on teaching another class in another subject or whether your going to take a break from mentoring for now. Thanks again,
Dylan

To everyone else, keeping up with these exercises sounds like a great idea. See you around.

[DIMAGYAN]

yinteck:thanks for your kind words, im really glad that you find useful this thread.
don't worry, i will comment about everyone strengths and weakness.

Dylan:thanks for your kind words. at this moment im not planning more mentorship. i don't know, maybe in the future when i improve my own work.

is a good idea meds, keep practicing these assignments and the ones in loomis books.

[yinteck]

Ok, here is some of my WIPs. I used the block kind of drawing to get the angle or position that i want, i feel easier doing this way. After that i based on the perspective of the block to draw the basic figure.
I finish the basic shape figure but is not what i want, i want the torso to bend more but i cant get it right at that angle. I will try again and see what happens.

Any idea guys ?? Correct me if you see mistake.:^^:

[CouchPotato]

I'm back! Well, I missed out on one week's assignment, but I sort of tried to make up for it by drawing something lol, a creature concept for my next 3D Model haha. Probably not quite what is supposed to be in here, but I don't quite recall the assignment topic and I was out of commission for a while.


Uhhmmmm, gonna put in some effort for this week's assignment, since the program is ending soon. Thanks Dimagyan, I've learned lots!


edit:
this still isn't quite done yet. I need to go back and fix some details on the back view (the arms and legs) and I need to fix my lines lol.

[meds]

I just want to drop in to say that due to the Thanksgiving Holiday, I will not be able to post my work until Friday night or Saturday morning, although will do it as soon as possible.

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/quicksketches.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/cryingform.jpg

There they are. I know that the figure looks off balance. I wanted it to look like it was about to fall over. That said I'm not sure I achieved what I wanted, and I might open the legs up for better stability for the final assingment.

Happy turkey day! gooble gobble.

[yinteck]

Here is my work. Yay!, finally got the pose that i wanted.:^^: .

Happy Thanksgiving everyone !

[DIMAGYAN]

time for replies

yinteck:good work! nice process. the position you made is a bit complex. it has twist/bend in the torso and the position of the legs are crucial(i think)
i made some notes, see bellow. draw all the elements, even what you don't see to have an idea of the structure.
keep it up

CouchPotato:nice character...but is not the assignment! try to do the 09 assignment in order to make next week the 10.
glad you find this thread useful.

meds:no problem, try to make this assignment and post it. the last assignment is the second part of nine.

qbertp:good work. in the process you have some nice figures, and others not quite well. take your time. the pose you made have some problems with the limbs and torsion connection.in general don't look quite well.you have to look for references.
see some of the notes i made in your drawing bellow
keep it up

corrections

246431

246430

cheers,
Diego

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

i will post next assignment later

[CouchPotato]

So, ok, here's this week's assignment lol. I did some initial gesture drawings, with pen. It's my first time using ink, so pardon for the untidy quality lol. The last one is the draft I've decided on.

[DIMAGYAN]

CouchPotato:nice work. good amount of figures. some of them have some problems on the forms.
the figure you choose to work is good. you just have to work more on the forms.
the references you use are from posemaniacs, no?
that is good, just keep in mind that those 3d models are not anotomical correct.
they can work as a base, but using some other source for the body movement, joints and muscular references.
keep it up

247081

cheers

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 final assignment

-use your previous figure from 09 assignment.

-add detail

-think and feel the form

i want to see a clear figure with defined form.

not overwork the figure(make enough detail to representate the figure forms)

work from the last figure, if you need trace it but work from that figure (this is important)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
that's all

go draw now

cheers,

Diego

[meds]

I hate to have to say this, but I will not be able to finish both assignment 9 or 10 in the time given. After the Holidays I recieved some portrait commissions that have a deadline for Christmas, and I simply do not have the time to work on other assignments until these drawings are finished. I do plan to finish these assignments eventually, and will post them in my sketchbook, but I am really sorry that I can't finish them this week.

The good news is that I am still drawing, and if anyone is curious, here are a few WIPs of what I have been working on this week. I know that it has nothing to do with the class, but I guess it proves that I am drawing. Good luck everyone with the assignments for this week, and I will post them in my sketchbook as soon as I have a chance to finish them.

The first one is a practice picture to jump start my shading skills and the second is one of the commissions.

[DIMAGYAN]

meds: don't worry.when you have to work, you have to do it.
nice works.if you want when you do the assignments post it in here.

[qbertp]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/qbertp/body.jpg

Well there's assignment 10. Cheers.

[yinteck]

Here goes my last assignment......:(

[DIMAGYAN]

my weekend is too busy. so im plan to do the comments and corrections on monday.

sorry for the inconvenience.

cheers

Diego

[DIMAGYAN]

qbertp: this assignment is better, still you need more work.see the corrections bellow.

yinteck: you don't change much of the figure, so my last comments on the previous assignment apply.see the corrections bellow.

corrections:

252599

252617

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, as i say before i will make some comments about your week and strong points. please take this as graint of salt, im still working in some of the areas i will point.

qbertp: you make a big progress since your first post.but you need to work a lot. you have to observe, draw from life and start to feel the forms. use books, this forum and anything that can help you.
make studies but draw also from imagination.
you have determination, so just draw and have fun. time is the key word, and also work and observation. keep it up, and good luck!

yinteck: you work all the assignments with determination and in almost presice time. very good!. your pencils are very clear, you don't make a mess with your lines,that's good. you need to work in your anatomy and your perception of forms. observation, lifedrawing and books can help.
make drawings from imagination and do studies from time to time.
draw, draw and have fun. enjoy the time you spend in your drawings and be opened always to learn something. always ask yourself why? and how?.
keep it up, and good luck!

best,
Diego

[yinteck]

Thanks sir, i wish you all the best in whatever you are doing . Thanks. Really appreciate your help all the way.