First attempt at 3d ...could use some advice

[ummo]

I've been trying to learn maya by going through the included tutorials on modelling with polygons, nurbs and subdivision surfaces. Also i have gone through some tutorials on www.learning-maya.com just trying to get the basics of this very daunting program down, but aside from the basics of making beginner models out of simple primitives i cant seem to understand how to model an extremely detailed and complex object.

My first real project has been to model a human head. From a series of curves like a lanscape relief map i lofted out one half of a head and duplicated and mirrored it to form a nurbs suface. Now that i have this surface i have been tweaking the original curves' CVs to get the shape that i want.

http://home.comcast.net/~pmostardi/art/mayaCap1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~pmostardi/art/mayaCap2.jpg

As of now it isn't very detailed and rather flat. I think the basic shape is there but i am not sure how to add more detail to it. In theory should i add more isoparms? If i did then the original curves couldnt control the nurbs surface, right? I have been trying to avoid using the surface sculpting tools, i cant seem to make them do what i want. Plus i get this annoying ghosting artifact with the sculting tool's brush cursor:
http://home.comcast.net/~pmostardi/art/mayaCap3.jpg
makes it difficult to see whats going on.

could anyone give any pointers on where I should go next? or where i went wrong?

[Payback]

I'm a newbie myself but I found that working with polygons allowed me to have more control of the modell. Right now I'm doing my first head, and I'm building it up polygon by polygon. It takes a little longer but the amount of control and detail I can put into it really makes up for the timeloss. Then again... I don't have a deadline. ;)
Here's the tutorial that got me started. (http://www.cg-art.i12.com/mad_1.html)

Haven't really started going into Nurbs too much atm.

[neble]

I have to agree too, polygons seem to be the way to go. Maya has some really cool things to offer, but Max does too. Consider using both tools and see what you like.

Personally, and I know many will not agree, but Maya's nurbs are horrible. I seem to get more from polygons, and been able to change the model to Sub Ds, is pretty cool. I find texturing Sub Ds also a pain, so work in polys then transfer when at the end.

There seems to be a lot of work arounds when it comes to character modeling in Maya, so sometimes it's better to take what's best from all programs.

[Shannon]

Nice start!

Yes, you probably want to go with polys for organic modeling.

With nurbs your gonna end up doing more "surface maintenance" than actual sculpting.

Most hi-rez character models are being done in polys these day anyhow (Gollum from LOTR)

I would suggest starting with a cube and
subdividing it once to get some geometry going. then do the mirroring that you did for you nurbs model.

start blocking in the rough shapes of the head and later worry about details.

Here's a great tute to get you started with what I believe you're looking for.
You can use this tute as a jumping off point for any type of head model.

http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/head.html
http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/ear.html

If you have questions about the proceedures used within this tute, post questions and I'll help.

You need to read this before you start, by the way.

http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/subdivmodeling.htm

Here's a good image that shows the detail one can achieve with this sculping method.
This was done by an artist named John Feather. He worked on Gollum for LOTR.

http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/bonobo_sneer.jpg

Oh, and on the issue of poly modeling and subdivision surface modeling. You want to model in polys, all the way to fine detail. Then convert to sub-D. There are those who do model details in sub-d, however its an unnecessary pain.

You need to remeber that there is an underlying muscle structure to the face. I'ts comprised of numerous concentric loops. Around the eyes, around the mouth etc. As you sculpt, you will create those circles and notice that they will help to mimic the underlying structure that supports the surface far better than the vertically looped spines from your nurbs model. Hope this makes sense. Look at as many wire cages, or meshes as you can. See a great model, ask to see the mesh. Most modelers know thats what counts.

Final words.
Don't bother using the sculpting brushes in Maya or any other program other than Zbrush. Currently they dont do what your after here.

Learn to push and pull edges and vertices. Add edges where necessary.

Learn about using the edge loop selection and bevel those loops to make them concentric.

Some programs have great "magnet" tools which allow you to grab large bunches of vertices with a falloff and reshape your model as a whole. But it always comes down to the components.

[jilted_one]

NURBS or poly either way if you can concentrate on modelling with one you can nail down anything that comes your way, also ummo from the way your are going is good, all i can say is that you gotta make mistakes if want to learn the program, seem from the images you're using maya.

[scumble fish]

It seems like modeling the human head is one of the most common subjects attempted when learning a 3D package.The accurate placement of isoprams to represent the underlying structure is critical as with any nurbs model and more so with such a recognizable form as the human head. Patch modeling would be the method of choice to achieve the greatest detail but you have to ask yourself what the final purpose of this project is. There are so many issues that if your at the stage of just learning the basics then it may be best to run through each modeling technique before choosing a final approach.

A great forum for presenting specific questions for Maya or XSI concerning modeling, mapping, lighting, ect. is http://www.highend3d.com. Alex Alvarez has demonstrated several ways of approaching just such organic modeling problems and the Gnomon vids are quite detailed.

Lastly here's the mandatory conflict of opinion as to the best approach for such a task......
I would start off with SubD's, build up one side , mirror, convert to polys and refine with Mayas sculpting tools (remember they don't work on SubD's) for that asymmetrical look. Maya lacks Max and Mirai's powerful soft select or magnet modifier deformers and the claydough M A G N E T S mel script just does not feel the same. In fact, there are quite a few mel scripts that are essential for extending Mayas toolset....such as: Goomoo Utilities and MJ Poly Tools. Remember Maya can rebuild across all types (except polys to nurbs) thus moving from one method to another is more of an opportunity then a burden. And don't forget to have fun for god sake!