questions, epiphinies, and some small problems

[mordecaidesign]

I started the official first steps of my journey about a year ago.
I am studying to become a matte painter / environment artist.

Most of the things I need comments or help on are art related.

Epiphany:
Most beginning matte painters use photos as a crutch. They'll go so far as to build compositions around the photo texture reference they have instead of doing what they should do... Learn to digitaly paint. If you can digitaly paint anything you see in your mind's eye than you can create the exact image you want and get the details in later via photo reference.

Problem:
My minds eye is a little fuzzy. If I close my eyes I can see amazing images, But when I try to paint the image I have to spend alot of time trying to focus my eye on the details of a column, or a rooftop. How can I strengthen my minds eyes so that I can see things in crisp detail?

Question:
Is it ok to really study other artists style? It sounds like a stupid question but I really have issues because of my schooling in graphic design and peer pressure from other designers to "develop your own style". As an artist shouldn't I be spending SOME time learning from the work of other artists? Not to the point of copying of course, but percentage wise....spend 70 % doing sketches and 30% studying the methods of other artists?

Question:
I don't use happy mistake methods enough. I try to paint the concept in my head without doing any composition experiments or studies. i always run into some sort of problem w/ composition or perspective etc. etc. and then i don't have fun. But when I just let go and create something random, I have more fun and the work is usually of a higher calibre. Where's the balance? I want to get these cool ideas onto paper/digital painting but I want to have fun as well.

[mordecaidesign]

So far 104 views and no replies?

Do I ask the hard questions or do you just find the thread to be boring?

[HunterKiller_]

Looking at your sketchbook, I see some nice colour stuff, but I think you pencil work (which is what you really should get a firm grasp of first) could do with a lot of strengthening.

Drawing from the mind isn't something anybody can pull out of their ass. It takes much practice and studying from life, studying from life and studying from life. Only by doing this can you build up enough 'visual vocabulary' to draw from your own imagination, because we know only what we've seen, and we can only draw only what we've drawn before.

[mordecaidesign]

Looking at your sketchbook, I see some nice colour stuff, but I think you pencil work (which is what you really should get a firm grasp of first) could do with a lot of strengthening.

Thank you.
Typing from my wii right now:

That is exactly the kind of feedback I've been looking 4. A swift kick in the ass. Unlike most of my matte painting peers I started sketching bcuz I knew I needed a better foundation. This just proves that I should devote even more time to sketching and really studying the world around me.

Anyone else want to chime in.

[kev ferrara]

Frankly, I don't know if I've seen enough hard work in your SB to think you're serious. Where's the plant studies? Rock studies? Where's the perspective studies? Where's the Life Drawing? Have you copied Bridgman's Anatomy books over into your notebooks? Have you drawn a locomotive or an automobile in minute detail? Have you done value studies of landscapes in your local area?

Show me the hard work. There are no easy answers.

[mordecaidesign]

Frankly, I don't know if I've seen enough hard work in your SB to think you're serious.

Ouch. But I guess I deserve that. This is exactly the kind of mentorship I need.

Until yesterday I had never even heard of Bridgeman.

I joined Conceptart.org back in 2003 but always just trolled around. Last year I finally said “damnit I'm gonna do this.”

Thank you. I'll study more instead of trying to create “scenes”.


There are no easy answers.


I know. That's why I'm here learning foundation and art instead of just being a stupid Photoshop monkey like so many other wanna-be matte-painters`.

Again thanks, I'll add your suggestions to my weekly curicullum.

[otis]

I worry you are thinking about things too much and not doing enough of the work. But to respond to your post all i can say is:

Epiphany:
Most beginning matte painters use photos as a crutch.

This is the craziest epiphany I've ever heard comming from somone who wants to be a matte painter! What industry do you think matte painters work in? Hint: it's in Hollywood.

I don't use happy mistake methods enough. I try to paint the concept in my head without doing any composition experiments or studies. i always run into some sort of problem w/ composition or perspective etc. etc. and then i don't have fun. But when I just let go and create something random, I have more fun and the work is usually of a higher calibre. Where's the balance? I want to get these cool ideas onto paper/digital painting but I want to have fun as well.

This is the SECRET to becoming successful in anything you do. If you have a hard time with this, then you are going to have a long, hard, grueling road ahead of your career...and life.

[mordecaidesign]

I worry you are thinking about things too much and not doing enough of the work. Just taking a step back and checking my progress before the next phase.



This is the SECRET to becoming successful in anything you do. If you have a hard time with this, then you are going to have a long, hard, grueling road ahead of your career...and life. I agree. That's why I am trying to find the balance and get better at it.


This is the craziest epiphany I've ever heard comming from somone who wants to be a matte painter! What industry do you think matte painters work in? Hint: it's in Hollywood.

Here's something else that's crazy. It's called matte painting. Look at the work of Craig Mullins (matte painter and concept artist). He might look at photo reference, but he doesn't collage it all over his work. Craig Mullins is to the point where he can paint something and not need to use photos as a texture.

Dylan Cole has something to say about being a photoshop monkey:

http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/articles/dylan_cole/dylancole02.php

I would advise potential matte painters to learn traditional drawing and painting skills -- especially basic perspective. There are far too many photo monkeys out there who can only collage photos together. They may integrate them well and balance them all together, but the perspective is all off, and the composition is wrong.”

And he also says the following about painting and details:

...looking at artists who really nailed color and composition. These are the two things that are most important to a matte painter. Detail is just time.”

I can't find the exact quote but Dylan Cole also said "make the photos work for you. not the other way around"

and here's a quote from my buddy Tim Warnock:

http://www.3dtotal.com/team/interviews/tim_warnock/tim_warnock_01.asp

I used Photoshop a lot as a photo manipulation tool but never for painting. My teachers and others around me were starting to paint digitally but the results were less than inspiring. I think there was also a little artistic snobbery holding me back. I think I fancied myself a purist. About 6 years ago I moved to a design firm in Oakville. The creative director there, Dan Wheaton, who is a good buddy of mine now said, “you should give digital painting a try” and I replied, “well I don’t think it is there yet”. He started to show me some stuff and introduced me to work from guys such as Craig Mullins and Ryan Church and I was completely blown away. At the time just couldn’t believe what I was seeing was painted digitally. It was Mullins' work in particular that really made up my mind that I wanted to pursue matte painting.


It has taken a year for it to finally click but I was working on a set extension, removing a grey sky and changing it to an Alaska location when I started painting the mountains in the background and trying to find the right colors. I went to grab some mountain photography and I realized that there was never going to be a perfect mountain. I then used the photo reference as a texture instead of an element and it worked perfectly. I'm not saying you should use photo elements like cutting out a building to include in your scene, I'm just saying you shouldn't be a slave to the photo reference that exists. What happens when you need to create something that doesn't exist? And there is no photo reference? Michael Pangrazio painted hundreds of paintings by hand of things that never existed for Return of the Jedi.

And btw. what I said was: [QUOTE]They'll go so far as to build compositions around the photo texture reference they have instead of doing what they should do... Learn to digitaly paint. If you can digitaly paint anything you see in your mind's eye than you can create the exact image you want and get the details in later via photo reference.[QUOTE]

I think you misunderstood me

[Zilant]

Now, by "happy mistake meathod" what exactly do you mean?

I'm aware of what I've come to know of as: A Happy Accident, something happens during the course of creating an image that isn't what you expected, but you go along with it anyway because it looks great.

But from the first post I kinda' got the impression you were talking about whole compositions, like from start to finish. Meaning something I've come to know as: A Freeform Painting, painting mindlessly instead of painting with a particular end-result in mind.

I'm not trying to play the linguistic police, I'm asking because I have good advice for #1, but not #2.
Which of those are shooting for?

[mordecaidesign]

#1 for sure.

I was also talking about Androids z-brush shape creation method he supposedly showed off at the last workshop.

Vyle has a method alot like this. He uses interesting brushes that are set to dynamic rotation in photoshop. It's seen in his speedpainting to concept art dvd.

When I sit down to work I already have and image in my head and I find it hard to let go of it. What I should be doing is what you talked about. More freeform.

[Zilant]

Next time you settle down to get some studies done,
bring Pens instead of a Pencil. Watercolors (as you've already started to play with) and Markers are pretty good too, but a little harder to write notes and observations to yourself in.

Part of happy accidents is having the mistakes stay around long enough to decide if you like them or not. With pencil and the computer, it's all too easy to erase or cntrl+z an issue away before you've had a chance to think about it. But using an unforgiving medium, you really have no choice but to try and make the best of it. This is true not only of happy accidents, but being more flexible in general.

If you can accept, and work with, the little deviations you make when copying something as crystal clear as a rock right in front of you. You should be able to accept, and work with, the little deviations you make when copying a not-so-clear image in your head.

[kev ferrara]

Stop posting to this thread and go back to work. There is nothing left to say. You will figure it out as you go.

Don't answer this post.