Shift on White and Black - Asadex

[Asadex]

Waiting for something

[Asadex]

Faces

[Asadex]

An House

[Asadex]

Iron window

[Asadex]

Flowers on the rocks

[Mr. Mu]

Asadex friend,

you've got a wonderful start for a beautiful collection of B/W photography, here and I would love to know more about the shots and your plans for this thread.

Are you going to shoot b/w for a longer period of time?
Are these analog or digital?

I actually don't want to crit these to death, because I can see that if you stick to shooting b/w you will have a strong compilation anyway, but here is something I noticed: the last ones are very harsh in contrast, so much so, that in the white and black areas there's little to almost no detail left.

So, I was wondering if you adjusted the curves that way or used special filters/gradation paper or something to achieve this and what your idea was.

Looking forward to your updates

[purplerose]

The first three show a great handle with that exposure. ;) More please!

[Asadex]

Asadex friend,

you've got a wonderful start for a beautiful collection of B/W photography, here and I would love to know more about the shots and your plans for this thread.

Are you going to shoot b/w for a longer period of time?
Are these analog or digital?

I actually don't want to crit these to death, because I can see that if you stick to shooting b/w you will have a strong compilation anyway, but here is something I noticed: the last ones are very harsh in contrast, so much so, that in the white and black areas there's little to almost no detail left.

So, I was wondering if you adjusted the curves that way or used special filters/gradation paper or something to achieve this and what your idea was.

Looking forward to your updates

Thankyou Mr. Mu,
I'm trying to learn how to make B\W photos and your comments are like water in the desert!
I'm using a digital camera ( my first one ) a Kodak p850 and i'm doing some "experimentations" on differnt exposure time, stops and whites balance on this camera.
Yes, Flowers on the rock hase an uncorrect contrast but last week there was the "hard disk in the floor" day and i lost many of my backups including this one.
Result : Shot lost:[
I'll try to work on a bigger version i have somewere ... we'll see...
I will also add some new photos i made in Toscana (Italy) in the last jouney i made, and some old shots ( IR ones ), i need help, i need to learn, i thank you all.

[Asadex]

The first three show a great handle with that exposure. ;) More please!

Sure!:teeth:

[Asadex]

Fire in the Sky

[Barret_wallace]

Great photos!

i especially like nr. 3,
The balance and focus in this picture is fantastic.
i wish to give you some constructive criticism,
don't take this as pure criticism now :)

Black and White photos can be very interesting to look at,
but as an amateur you should start with taking color photos!
a black and white picture may seem easy to shoot but it's quit the contrary,
it's mutch more important to have good "color contrast" in a B&W picture than in a color photo.
My recommendation to you is to focus on taking color photos!
I'm quit sure that photos nr 1,2 and 3 would be beater in colors if you learn how to control them :)

looking forward too see more of your photos

[Asadex]

Thankyou Barret,
I need criticism!
so, here an OT color Shot,
I'm also trying to find the originals of the authers shots but i had a HD problem some days ago

[Asadex]

And here an old entry and a new one

[Asadex]

fill fill filll

[Barret_wallace]

Thankyou Barret,
I need criticism!
so, here an OT color Shot,
I'm also trying to find the originals of the authers shots but i had a HD problem some days ago

That photo is much better in colors! :)
the colors and balance and contrast in that picture is very good!

[purplerose]

Nice lightning.
In terms of the first image. I think it looks better in B/W. The mood is stronger in the B/W one, whereas the colors and the mood in the 2nd one are fighting for attention.

[Asadex]

Tecnically i agreed with Barret, but i have to quote Purplerose about the "attention", all the coloros and the complete focus bring the observer to the top of the shot and not to the face of the girl ( my girlfriend waiting for me at a fencing contest )

[eazym]

that tree one is just really really cool

[Mr. Mu]

Hi,

I like the drama in "Fire in the Sky". The gradations in the clouds are a bit harsh, but I guess that is from the jpeg compression. It is advisable to shoot in RAW format and work on the images in 16bit mode so the greyscale is as refined as possible.

In the last one, contrast is way too hard. On my monitor, the black in her right eye (left eye for the viewer) has no detail and the white on the arm is just plain white, no texture detail left.

Don't forget that b/w is all about local contrast (as opposed to global contrast). This means that it's much better to see to a strong contrast between the light and dark parts in, for example, the eye region and an adequate representation of the values and gradations on the arm instead of squeezing as much contrast out of the curves dialog as possible.

That way you increase the impact, but keep the details. Ways to achieve this is dodging/burning, increasing global contrast with curves, but applying it only locally via layer masks or playing with grey/black gradients on separate layers/layer modes.

Most importantly...:
Have fun...:D

[Asadex]

Thanks to everybody!
@Mr. Mu- I would work on RAW but: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IMPORT IN PHOTOSHOP!!!! When i try it see only Jpeg files.
Can you help me?

[Mr. Mu]

When i try it see only Jpeg files.

Well, I don't own a DSLR myself, but if you check your camera's memory for images and there are only jpgs then you forgot to tell your camera it should save the images as RAW files instead of compressing them to jpgs.

Check your manual for saving shots in RAW format. As concerns importing those to photoshop you have to wait til someone who has done that comes along.

[FredrikHoeg]

Thanks to everybody!
@Mr. Mu- I would work on RAW but: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IMPORT IN PHOTOSHOP!!!! When i try it see only Jpeg files.
Can you help me?

The DSLR should be added as a device (read: memory stick), so you should be able to copy files over to the folder of your choice. There are also various importing/viewing programs that will spot your camera and import your newest pictures automatically, but its not recommended.

You should be able to switch between jpeg (different quality versions), raw and a combination of those in the camera menu.

[Asadex]

La casa di Simona

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/LaCasadiSimona.jpg

[Some Internet Guy]

Man, your black and white work is fantastic. I agree about the tree one, that's brilliant.

Your first image is better in the color version, I believe - in your composition the woman and the window are competing for attention and the green of the woman's shirt really does a great job of making her pop out. Without that color contrast, the strongest visual guide in the image is the lines of the chairs and the wall, which converge way past her towards the window.

For similar reasons, your latest one is a little awkward-feeling - 75% of the image is going towards just line drawing the eye to a specific point in the center, but then when you get there there's nothing there. The two girls seem to be the subject just by default, since they're the only unobscured object anywhere near the convergence point, but they're not in focus and within the central 'strip' there's nothing to give them particular emphasis. I'm looking just as much as those paintings in the background, the guy's blown-out shirtsleeve, just the room in general, in which nothing seems complete. It just doesn't work for me coupled with the heavily structured body of the photo.

[Asadex]

Man, your black and white work is fantastic. I agree about the tree one, that's brilliant.

Your first image is better in the color version, I believe - in your composition the woman and the window are competing for attention and the green of the woman's shirt really does a great job of making her pop out. Without that color contrast, the strongest visual guide in the image is the lines of the chairs and the wall, which converge way past her towards the window.

For similar reasons, your latest one is a little awkward-feeling - 75% of the image is going towards just line drawing the eye to a specific point in the center, but then when you get there there's nothing there. The two girls seem to be the subject just by default, since they're the only unobscured object anywhere near the convergence point, but they're not in focus and within the central 'strip' there's nothing to give them particular emphasis. I'm looking just as much as those paintings in the background, the guy's blown-out shirtsleeve, just the room in general, in which nothing seems complete. It just doesn't work for me coupled with the heavily structured body of the photo.

yes , i agreed about my last post, i wanted to use the paints as a center of the image but they are not correctly exposed and focused.
I made this shot from the door of the house of a friend, in front of this house there was an exposition of a very nice artist and i tried to look at those pictures from inside the house.
Because of the few light i had a long expo time.
I'm thinking about to remove this shot

[Asadex]

A Cup of Light

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Asadex9.jpg



A Place

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Asadex1.jpg



Poles

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Asadex6.jpg

[Some Internet Guy]

Dammit, stop being so awesome, it's unfair to the rest of us.

That's the most ominous use of a battery I've seen in a while.

[Asadex]

Dammit, stop being so awesome, it's unfair to the rest of us.

That's the most ominous use of a battery I've seen in a while.


?!?!!

[Mr. Mu]

?!?!!

lol, it's a compliment Asadex! All is well...:D

[Asadex]

yep:bashful:

[Asadex]

A Sky



http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/hghj.jpg

[Morbid]

Nice editing. Did you take the space picture yourself?
By the way, this image is in AdobeRGB color profile, that means it will look different on the web than when you open it in photoshop. You should convert it to sRGB to be sure it looks the same.

[Asadex]

By the way, this image is in AdobeRGB color profile, that means it will look different on the web than when you open it in photoshop. You should convert it to sRGB to be sure it looks the same.


Ehm,
and how to do it?!:bashful: :bashful:

[Morbid]

In photoshop:
Edit>Convert to profile and choose sRGB as destination space.

[Asadex]

Thankyou! :)

[Asadex]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/TheclosedWindow.jpg

[rsoffar]

i love the "a cup of light" photo..
along with all your others.

[Asadex]

Thankyou very much,
"Cup of light" was a "morning idea" i had getting up from my bad in my dark room, i thought " i really need a cup of light!"

[Asadex]

Twins

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Immagine109.jpg

[ShadeOfDawn]

Nice editing. Did you take the space picture yourself?
By the way, this image is in AdobeRGB color profile, that means it will look different on the web than when you open it in photoshop. You should convert it to sRGB to be sure it looks the same.

The picture of the Nebula was taken by the Hubble Space telescope, such pictures arent really feasible from the ground (at least not with any consumer equipment)

I do agree that its a really cool photograph though

[klips]

Twins has lovely colours, you've got some real 'pop' out of it. Well done!

[Asadex]

Twins has lovely colours, you've got some real 'pop' out of it. Well done!
thanks, i worked a bit on curves and colors balance, i also had to balance my monitor 'cause i never done before and there was some Ati color application working in background that i disabled.
I was surprised how the color cepht and the B\W balance is changed!!!

[Asadex]

Keath


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/100_2442.jpg

[Mr. Mu]

Hi Asadex,

I like how the "Color perhaps" part is taking over lately...:D

In general I like your balance of tones and colors. With this latest one, however, I don't like that in the shaded part of the hide there's only black textureless areas.
Maybe an exposure correction would have helped? Because the light meter will give you an educated guess only which you then have to correct for the actual circumstances and a black cat's hide is definitely a special light situation.

[Asadex]

Thanks Mr. Mu,
i agreed, i had to work on the exposure on PS 'cause i had some white noise on the black areas, because of the flash light i think.
The result is that i have less noise but, as you've seen, totally black areas.
I think i've to work more on this shot, but probably there is nothing to do.
Thankyou again

[VenomVindicta]

OMG!

That kitty looks like mine :D

He lies just like that, i've been trying to take photos of him for a llong time, but hes scared of something pointing at him :(

Great shot, its hard to keep all the textures in an entirely black cat :/

More please !

[Asadex]

I,ve too some little problems to make photos to my friend Keath, but, like me, time to sleep is time for sleep

[Asadex]

Seasons

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/100_2818.jpg


Fireworks

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Fireworks.jpg

[Asadex]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/100_2788.jpg

[Some Internet Guy]

Seasons is very cool, the black fringe and your nigh-radioactive colors make the two flower heads pop nicely. If anything, I'd like to see them isolated a little more, though. The complicated background with its patches of foliage and dirt is a little distracting.
Fireworks, too, is pretty solid if a bit closely cropped. Lately all your pictures have had this very nice, deep-dark, slightly menacing effect to them, it's a neat style.

[eazym]

man that sky is unreal, very well done

[Asadex]

I'd like to see them isolated a little more, though. The complicated background with its patches of foliage and dirt is a little distracting

I'm trying to make it darker with PS, but i preferred to not work too much on this image.
I used a 2\f to have a blurred background but was not enought:bashful:

man that sky is unreal, very well done
Thanks

[Some Internet Guy]

Yeah, I can definitely sympathise with not wanting to over-postprocess. That one'd be tricky, too, can't just find a simple edge and Gaussian Blur the hell out of everything past it. Maybe if you shot from a lower angle? Just in general keeping undesired background detail at a low contrast any way possible.

[Asadex]

Low angle... On the background there was a Supermarket parking !!!
Lol

[Asadex]

Seasons II


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/100_2819.jpg

[purplerose]

I like "Fireworks," but I think it's too saturated.

[Asadex]

No Saturation work, that the real color of the flowers!!!
Probably is my Kodak color...
But i was also surprised about it

[Asadex]

Another B\W try


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Immagine025-1.jpg
(updated after a drunken afternoon)

[Asadex]

Sunset

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/Sunset.jpg

[eazym]

something about the treatment that is bothering me on the last two.

[Le Gab]

No #58, there is something not right with his lips. In case you are using a red filter you should always mind that when working with people.

In case you are shooting a dSLR, methinks you should trying shooting directly in BW. The contrast and the toning willl be much better than shooting color and converting.

You see, there are many factors that contribute to a good bw piece, esp when working with people. When you simply convert you loose a lot of light information that is simply mutated in the process.

[Asadex]

Cannel mixer only
perhaps it's beacause i "darked" the reds

[Mr. Mu]

Le Gab, how come you think shooting in b/w yields better results in dSLR? AFAIK, when you shoot with a digital you always shoot colour as there is no such thing as a greyscale sensitive sensor, i.e., there is always a conversion.

In case the conversion is in camera, however you give up all of the control and replace that with software presets. So, in my opinion, b/w with digital is best done by shooting RAW and converting on the PC... opinions?

[samsite999]

im siding with mu on this one. all dslr record the full color range from the CCD, the only choice you have to make is weather its the camera that discards the color information, or the computer. i shoot in 16 bit color raw and make my B&W conversions from the PC using photoshop
i get a wider tonal range (well in my mind) to play with this way. shooting from the camera using a B&W setting isnt a good idea as it limits your control of the image. if you can. always shoot raw,
my camera isnt set to anything else.

RAW is a good send for me, im so glas i spent the time to understand it

[Le Gab]

Presto! Yeah, never thought of it like that. :^^;: Le Gab was Le Wrong. :)

This be worth investigating. I really have no idea how it really works, since processing of the image is done after the light information is captured by the sensor but based on the input of the user... and, uhm, automated?

I will not go any further... since i might be wrong. Cheers Mr Mu! :D

However, i will still argue that shooting directly BW on a dslr is much more comfortable that editing the Raw file. Usually, before i take the lens cap off i know if i want to shoot bw or color. Uhm, and yeah, always shoot RAW.

And yeah, Sam is right, RAW = Godlike.

LATER EDIT:

However, on CCD sensors, the information about color is not droped (aka grayscale). It is actully processed to BW, as though using multiple filters on film (red, green,blue, purple, candy, cake, James etc...). Gray scaling an image = dropping color information which it's not the case.

So, i might be right, i might be wrong. This is really something I need to look into.

Cheers!

(Sorry Sam, at first i edited your post and added this :D )

[samsite999]

no problem legab, id had a few beers before i had posted! im 99% sure its a better idea to shoot raw and process the raw image to a B&W later, in fact...there isn't a option to do anything other then that on the Nikon D50, no option to shoot B&W at all.... only color and RAW, the CCD only captures color information R G B... information, but again this is depended on the color space information you have set your camera to record, i use Adobe RGB 1998 for compat reasons.

I will add i worked for epson on the support team, i worked with high end camera, scanner and printers. colour matching is in my blood :)

[Asadex]

I just bought a 2gb memory to shoot only raw images, is the best choice to have the total control fon a digital image and you can choose later if or not convert in B\W.

[samsite999]

i get about 160 images on a 2gb memory card, there cheep as chips over there though. so i got memory cards coming out my ears (mabey i should see a doc about that)

[Asadex]

Off-Topic


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fdg1of1.jpg

[Morbid]

im siding with mu on this one. all dslr record the full color range from the CCD, the only choice you have to make is weather its the camera that discards the color information, or the computer. i shoot in 16 bit color raw and make my B&W conversions from the PC using photoshop
i get a wider tonal range (well in my mind) to play with this way. shooting from the camera using a B&W setting isnt a good idea as it limits your control of the image. if you can. always shoot raw,
my camera isnt set to anything else.

RAW is a good send for me, im so glas i spent the time to understand it

Correct, you should always shoot color and convert in pp. That way you can choose to mix the channels the way you want, you get total control of the conversion. Different channels give you different amounts of contrast, detail and noise.
The raws are not 16 bit though, they are 12 bit (or 14 in some newer cams such as the 40D).

I like the flower shots Asadex, "Seasons II" in particular.
I like the bw portrait too, but the straight on flash is ruining it some.

[Asadex]

I like the bw portrait too, but the straight on flash is ruining it some.

Yes, i agreed

[Asadex]

Italian Style



http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/dfgh1of1.jpg

[B-Lion]

I must say, I enjoy your photos a lot. Do you photograph what you see, or do you plan your photo first? Is a camera something you carry around, always taking pictures, or do you take specific time to do so? And how about lighting, do you have a favorite time of day to take a picture? Just some questions to understand your photos better! ;)

[Asadex]

Thanks a Lot!
I usually photograph 'cause the light is wonderfull...
'cause "this thing is amazing!"...
'cause somebody has a strange face, a stranfe feeling...
usually i don't plan a shot but sometimes i find something and later, in the right hour with the right light i come back to take a shoot

[klips]

The raws are not 16 bit though, they are 12 bit (or 14 in some newer cams such as the 40D).

I was waiting for someone to point this out, although the TIFF file (or whatever your editing it in) may be 16 bit, even if the original capture was only 12/14 bit. I assume this means you'd have a finer lever on control in editing, even if your original capture didn't have this many shades of grey.

PS: for anyone wondering what difference it makes, JPEG it 8 bit, so has 2^8 or 256 shades for each of the three colours, RGB. This results in a maximum of 16.7 million different colours. 12 bit is 2^12, or 4096 shades/colours, so 68 billion colours, and 14 bit like in the 40D, D3 etc is 16384 shades and thus 4.4 trillion colours. This is faaaaaaar more than the human eye can differentiate, but it sells cameras :D

[Asadex]

What a tecnical thread!!!

[Asadex]

An old one colored



http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/uiygv-1.jpg

[Pumpkinpye517]

these are all wonderful photos! The perspective on the batteries is very unique! Great observation!

[Asadex]

Thanks Pumpkinpye, it was my entry for the photo contest "opposites".

[eazym]

really cool off-topic illustration though!

[Asadex]

thanks Eazym, here is the original



http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/dfsgfd1of1.jpg

[Le Gab]

Liking the original much better than the first one :)

[purplerose]

I second that... ;)

[Asadex]

The B\W one was a shot i made with a wrong iso ( look at the pixels in the sky)
i used later for a sci-fi illustration but, as you said, probably i wrong two times ;)

[Asadex]

Prospectives

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/prospective.jpg

[klips]

I love this, grainy, high ISO look you're rocking at the moment. Something else I'd be interested in is some architectural shots 3 stops underexposed, then pushed up in PP. Good stuff, keep it up.

[Asadex]

B\W one
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/dfgdf1of1.jpg

[Asadex]

ManPower
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/dfjyfdfd1of1.jpg

[Mr. Mu]

awesome stuff today! First this refined soft textural study and now this stark Käthe-Kollwitz-Litho-in-your-face thing.

Very expressive.

[Asadex]

this stark Käthe-Kollwitz-Litho-in-your-face thing
LOL
Thanks Mr.Mu!!!

[Asadex]

A Column
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/NodeColumn.jpg

[Asadex]

Creatures
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/rgaegae.jpg

[Asadex]

A Bird
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/ujyfiu.jpg

[purplerose]

Nice composition on the bird photo.

[Asadex]

he was posing for me ;)

[Asadex]

Un Porta
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/jhd1of1.jpg

[klips]

Lovely tone and colours on this last one. Two crits: it's not quite straight, check the bottom of the pillars. Also, the vignetting in the left top and bottom corners is a bit too strong for my liking, if you could fix this either in PP or through a softened fill flash it would improve it.

[eazym]

there's something very photogenic about doors. I actually don't mind the burning at the edges to bring the focus to the center (klips says it might be vignetting, but it looks intentional to me, I'm probably wrong again though), good use of vertical lines, too. I also wonder if the "off-center" feeling is not so much tilt as lens distortion?

[Asadex]

I used a color burn filter on PS to close the attention on the center of the image, the green "edera" was bringing to much the strenght of the green on top of the shot, i also have noticed the strange effect of the image, something like a distortion 'cause if you see the wall on the right it looks straight, but if you pay attention to the door base there is a little pendence.
I think it's because of the street, i was in an ancient street of Trento (IT) were many houses are massed in ancient buildings on on top of the other.

[Asadex]

Ancient Times
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/cvgh1of1.jpg

[Asadex]

through the window

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/gjdxy1of1.jpg

[purplerose]

Wow, that cat looks extremely creepy... :)

[Asadex]

My little creepy cat:devil:

[eazym]

very cool cat. did you bump up the saturation individually in each of the hues? looks rich

[Asadex]

i worked a bit on Shadow\Higlights and individually in each eye 'cause the glass of the windows shift the color of the eyes too much on grey.

[Asadex]

Moonlight I
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fghf1of1.jpg

Moonlight II
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fxdx1of1.jpg

A Window
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/sdfhd1of1.jpg

Think About
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/tt1of1.jpg

[eazym]

like the simplicity of Moonlight 1 and the compo. The focus looks a little odd, though, maybe just because you had to crop a small part of the image though.

[Asadex]

i had to choose between moon or the roof, i used a 2.8 cause of the few light losing "campo".

[Asadex]

For Rent
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fgdgasd1of1.jpg

[Asadex]

1
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fxgzd1of1.jpg


2
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/cvbxfc1of1.jpg

[Collin Smiley]

this is great stuff ! keep up the good work

[eazym]

I like the tighter crop on #2

[Asadex]

The last two are a parking in the center of Trento (IT) between ancient wall and old houses.
The villa "for rent" is a strange house in the north of italy between the mountains, in front of my house!

[Asadex]

It's cold outside

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/fdhjd1of1.jpg

[purplerose]

I like "It's cold outside," but I think you should play around with cropping to help the viewer focus in on one or two birds.

[fawwadhussain]

nice photos.............

[Asadex]

@purplarose
I'm workin' on, thanks

@fawwadhussain
Thanks

[Asadex]

Hot red

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/klhbvl1of1.jpg

[eazym]

man that's red, good focal interest. I'd get rid of the red border, a little too much

[Asadex]

"'I'd get rid of the red border, a little too much"

I know but
It's Christmas!

[eazym]

hahaha, then why not green? :)

[Asadex]

mmmh, why not?

[Asadex]

red cold chili
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/jhvlj1of1.jpg

[eazym]

haha, I like the last one better

[Asadex]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/asadex/gfhrty1of1.jpg