Trying to start a YouTube Chain

[Jacob Kobryn]

This is what I said in an email I sent out to my contacts:

Hi,
I am trying to make a youtube chain...
The video is a painting of an orc, by me, Jake Kobrin. If you could please send it to everyone on your contacts (as I did here) it would be greatly appreciated. I know a lot of the people I am sending this to I haven't contacted in a long time, so Hi! Oh, and please comment on my video!
Jake

If you could do as it says it would be awesome!

I painted the orc for the Sclipo Wacom Challenge but the deadline was actually midnight CET time not PST and the idiot who runs it won't respond to my many emails. And the video said 8/28!

It's done on painter with a wacom graphire4.


I didn't put a link to the video! prffffttttt! http://youtube.com/watch?v=5DmLlVlkR2Y

Jake

[luxun]

aigh?

[Dile_]

You got a graphire 4 a5, and you are saying you need support... LOL.

No offense or anything , but, You didn't really teached anything, I mean, "I drew some lines, with that tool, put the colors on multiply and painted with that other tool." And thats it.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do though.. .You want to get accepted into the challenge ? If you missed deadline, then thats a good lesson for the future.
A missed deadline IS a missed deadline.

You are 14, and already really good.. but you do not have what it takes, whatever you are 14 or not, to win this challenge. I've checked some of the entries on sclipo, some PRO's from here, goes through the design process, and all the way to the final illustration/concept.

Sorry if I'm very harsh with you. But i think you are taking stuff way over head with this..

[Jacob Kobryn]

I got nervous about time with the narration. I put that in the description. I'm not trying to get excepted into the contest just trying to send it around the internet, which all of you can help with.
Jake

[Matsign]

I have no idea what a YouTube Chain is. I'd worry more getting your name out around CA.org than YouTube.

[Stark]

I personally think it's a bad idea to your name out for the sake of trying to become better known. I don't think any pros here or anywhere have done that. You'll get recognition as you become better and your artwork and name start to make a "name" all on their own. Once that happens, people will begin to mention you absentmindedly. Like with Rawwad, mins, hurri, m@, and many others. Their work is good enough where people advertise and plug for them without thinking about it.

[Dile_]

I personally think it's a bad idea to your name out for the sake of trying to become better known. I don't think any pros here or anywhere have done that. You'll get recognition as you become better and your artwork and name start to make a "name" all on their own. Once that happens, people will begin to mention you absentmindedly. Like with Rawwad, mins, hurri, m@, and many others. Their work is good enough where people advertise and plug for them without thinking about it.

Exaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactly! Practice.. Don't brag over your age...

:)

[Uziel]

Don't get all messed up 'bout that competition other opportunities will occur.

[Lohan]

dude ur only 14 and you did that//???/!!

[timpaatkins]

This belongs in the Worst of CA, and not because of the original poster.

This kid set up and filmed him painting in PS, and went in the ring with the big boys, and you shit on him for that?!

*---*. Holier than thou *---*. Even if he gets his ass handed to him, he still did it, and its commendable. Did you people enter? Maybe you are sitting around waiting to get better? There are PROS entering you say?! Yea, contests arent worth entering,
"I mean everyone else is so good. Ill just sit here and oogle and asspat some more sketchbooks and my heroes."

And Dile, whats this *---*about not entering because he isnt "good enough" Do you go in and bitch like that in the TD area? Maybe we should all think like that and just wait around for the day we are good enough?


Its all the god awful replies hes gotten from the above. Where is he bragging about his age? Is it in his sig, "14 and learning early?" Does that constitute as bragging? *---*. Or that he explains why he hasn't got a faster comp? *---*.


Like Stark, another piece of GREAT advice,just sit around and wait for word to get out. From other artists none the less. Maybe work at Burger king on the side. Amazing advice. Sit on your *--*and wait for someone to discover you.
And hey, don't show your portfolio, remember there are PROS out there that are much better than you are!

As a freelance graphic designer I know that "whoring yourself out" as you call it, is more known as networking, and is essential to survival. Nobody's gonna do it for you, you yourself have to tread the pavement,set up meetings, shove your portfolio down peoples throat just to get it seen.

I'm not denying the power of concept art,but you all live in a dreamworld if you think your are gonna get jobs from recommendations. How many people are on CA? And how many do you consider to be better than you? Now whats the chance someone will recommend you over the other 1000 people that rip it up here.

OR just keep filling your sketchbook, and wonder why no-one is calling you offering you jobs. After all your thread is so amazing, other people should be talking for you...

How the *---* do you think people become pros?
Because they take chances, they stick their feet out, they dive in the deep end, and they roll with the punches.

Orignal poster: good on ya mate, you tried your best, and came out with a bloody nose. The next one youll know a little more about deadlines and the rest just chalks up to experience.


Tim

Edit: I edited out all the nasty words, including the one time i used the word "fuck"

[Justin.]

Visit his site, timpa. "AMAZING YOUNG TALENT"

I think that's what they were talking about.

As a note; As far as I am aware, there is a difference between networking and being a . Networking is making contacts, and using specific ones to get work. I'm fairly certain if you constantly sent stuff to every person on your contacts, people would get tired of you quick. It's one thing to mail an AD of a company several times a year to remind him of you, but emailing stuff to everyone you know (sort of like Bulletins on myspace) can get very annoying, very fast.
Whoring yourself out is just for popularity's sake. I see very few pro's, especially on this site, whoring themselves out. Only a few I can name, but will not because whoring is sort of a negative term and those guys are really nice.
What purpose is there in making a YTchain if A) you missed the deadline, B) It doesn't teach anyone anything

If your computer can even RUN painter, then it isn't that bad.
When I was that young I worked for 2 months at a resturaunt where I got seriously fucked- no paycheck for 2 months, and they never compensated me for it to this day. I got 8 bucks in tips a night. I worked until I could afford a tablet, then I quit and bought it. (yeah, this was while i was in high school with College level classes, so if you are thinking about it please no 'I'm too busy' BS)

There is this thing called a blog that you can get for free, it's super easy to update and NOT ANNOYING as people can bookmark it and check it at their own will. I have one, Dile has one, literally thousands of pros have their own. It helps keep fans updated, as well as a quick reference spot for employers/potential clients. But if you are super serious, websites REALLY AREN'T THAT EXPENSIVE, most kids can afford a very decent one on their allowance (10 bucks a week).


Nevermind, you have a website. But I would make it sound less egotistic, at where you are now your age will only hurt you, not help you.


(sidenote for those who couldn't tell; Lohan was being sarcastic)

[Dile_]

Timpatkins, calm down.. Breath.

The only asshole among those replies up there was ME. Stark wasn't an asshole, neither was anyone else. Just me.

The contest was about making a TUTORIAL. A WALK THROUGH. Which TEACHED something.

Now , that needs experience doesn't it ? Maybe i'm way off there.

What I said was that his video, is merely a show off, where he makes an orc. Nothing wrong with that, I have plenty off them on my Youtube account.
Calm down.

And are you serious when you are saying that its time for him to start showing off his art, as professionals do!? ..

I got my first and current job through "my amazing thread which i just keep filling up with sketches while waiting around on my ass" . Not that i'm ready for it. But I still have a job. Through my "amazing thread"

And I might just ask, who the fuck ( you seem to like that word.. So I'll use it too. ) are you to insult other peoples work ? Especially the way you did. "Your amazing thread" . I checked "your amazing thread" ... And I can see why you are so high up in your ass, with all your pro-friends, that you took your "right" to insult , but I wouldn't.. NEVER.. do that if I were you.

People becomes GOOD pros by PRACTICING their ass off. Which neither *I* , you , or the original poster have. A lot of practice. A lot of experience.

And about being "good enough" .. Whoa. I told him he was VERY good for his age. But wtf. He already have a wacom, and he act like if he is super good. Especially because he is 14. "AMAZING YOUNG TALENT!!!one!!!111"
I wanted to do, what someone should do to you.. Put him back to earth.
While still trying to be nice. again, I told him he was ____VERY_____ good for his age. And thats truth.

And what Justin said.
Theres a huge difference between "whoring" and "making contacts" .

And the age.. I'm damn 15 myself.. Mentioning it when trying to get somewhere with your art is like shooting yourself in the foot while running. Unless you have a rich sponsor who can back you up and tell everyone how amazing you are.

"I'm 14 and learning" - Thats the same thing as asking for people to come by his work and say
"Wow ur amazing for being 14" ... And its that attitude through out all the stuff.
"I'm 14, therefore i should have a bigger chance to get the wacom.. Because i'm a prodigy you know"

"I'm 14, and therefore i can't afford a better computer" - GAH, he runs painter, he paints without lagg, I can't tell, but it looks like when he is viewing the whole canvas, he is painting on 35 - 39% ... WITHOUT LAGG. I would love that.. But painter would lagg like shit for me.


"I'm an amazing talent" - That confirms exactly what i did said. That he brags about his age. As I said.. He is hurting himself , REALLY , by doing this.
Did you even saw the video ? He mention his age at least 10 times. Thats bragging imho.

--------------------------------

No one takes a 12-16 year old serious. Especially not on a forum.

But seriously Tim, calm down.. Put me in "worst of CA" if that makes you happy. I don't really care. Your rant is the most _off_ I have ever read on CA. Now go make some art. You could need that : )

Your work speak for you.. Not the other way around. THATS what I've tried to say through out this whole post.

[Uziel]

Angus just delete the 14 everywhere and we will be a happy community again.
The art is pretty good for a beginner but to me it also has the "I'm 14 so look at me" written all over and that's not the way to go.
Don't take talent for granted and use it wisely.


Dile and Timpa take a cold beer, I'm getting one myself.
This is not worth high bloodpressure.

[life on the sofa]

to angus:thats a good piece, i dont understand why you want everyone to chain mail it?...if the competition is over and your not trying to enter it why are you asking?..if its just to get noticed..then..maybe you should be more inclined to send your own portfolio to employers yourself, because while i have many freinds interested and good at art non of them are going to employ you because they are employers. if what ive interpreted is wrong please lemme know :)


timpaatkins:

yes i think it is ok tht he is doing this, what i think dile may be refering to by it hurting him is if he seems to be so confident in his work and ability if he does get his ass handed to him he might not take it so well and lose all ambition and drive, which i can understand im not taking sides between either argument because i agree with both equally to be honest.

and stark makes a perfectly vaild point, if i got emails from every new and up coming artist who was good and KNEW IT it would pee me off big time. dont try and force your self upon people, while it is good to put your name out there and get around to effectivleey SPAM with a chain e mail about your work probraly wont get you noticed by anyone who matters secondly the people who get the email and dont give two shits about art and even the people who do will probraby end up holding it against you, spamming people to get noticed..and like i said yes get your name out and about-not by spamming-not by chain letters/emails, there is a large amount of sitting around and waiting for your oportunity to come because in reality for every artist who makes it big time there is a thousand others probrably just as good who will never be heard of.so yes a large part of it is luck but putting your name and art around in the right way will help, not spamming youtube .
and when stark said you need to earn your name and fame he is again right..telling people your the best and the greatest will just piss people off, its good to be self confident but not arrogant but i doubt if stark meant "sit on your ass and oogle and asspat your heroes" as you put it..posting work on CA is helpfull not neccicaril because it gets you a job straight of but because it helps you improve..check out "mindcandyman"'s SB you will see, after improving its easier to get a job, and ca can help with that by the jobs section forums maybe wont get you a job but it is good to try.

and also, if on these forums you come to make a point..dont come calling people assholes and start swearing at everyone and everything it will just make people not want to be interested in what you have to say. my first inclination when i read your post was to quote it and just say "shut the fuck up......." but i know that wouldnt have been helpfull and would have made this thread into a raging fireball of a shitstorm. so ididnt i took a breath thought abuot what i thought needed to be said and tried to be polite but to the point. just takes a bit of eqiquette. insults and swearing wont make people take more notice of you..just turn them against you.


DILE:..you went an ass hole, a bit blunt but..still you wenrt an ass hole :S..its a matter of perception, you said he didnt have what it takes to win the challlenge at the moment you didnt comndemn him to failure for life and rip the shit out of his art, and compared to most of the pros he probly woundlt win but then people dont like being told stuff like that. so/..meh whatta gna do 'ey?

--sofa

[timpaatkins]

Yes yes, upon rereading I see now..

I wrote that after waiting 8 hours for the plumber to show up (which he didn't) so I was late for my evening class. Also = going to the toilet at star bucks for several days.

Now Dile, please forgive me. I wasn't using you specifically as an example at all. I used the word "you" to demonstrate a certain mindset, the mindset of someone who thinks that their art alone will get them known, and they then wonder why the phone isn't ringing. I would never ever put anyones art down that way, least of all yours. I truly apologize for the misunderstanding. If you've read any of my comments before, you'll see that it just wouldn't enter in to my mind. Again I wasn't referring to your specific art or any one else's at all. I want to make that perfectly clear.
I guess just putting it in a different paragraph wasn't as clear as i intended or putting it 7 sentences down from where I mentioned your name. The word "you" in English is not totally equivalent with "du". In this case the translation would read "jag"

He also mentions that he is 14 twice in the video, once in the intro, and second where he explains about his comp. I don't see any bragging anywhere, even though the sentence "amazing young talent" is distasteful when used to describe oneself. But it is clearly someone else that wrote that for him. Maybe his dad or his airbrushteacher, who knows. But he himself hasn't specifically bragged about anything. Just like a review. Or an interview.And I see quite a few of those floating about on peoples homepages... His etiquette on trying to get others to post his you tube stuff is questionable, but I have yet to meet a perfectly social/stable 14 year old. But I take it you are born and raised in Sweden, where any form of self advertisement is a dirty thing indeed, and considered bragging, especially if there is some validity to it. Jantelagen sound familiar?

And no, work usually doesn't speak for itself, most of the time one has to speak for it. (This time i used the word "one", but I could also have used the word "you" without referring to anyone specifically.This "one" includes myself)

Now, where you get off on SPECIFICALLY insulting my studies is another kettle of fish... Practice what you preach mate.

Maybe we should have this talk when you are 25 instead. You are sure your just not miffed that he is a year younger than you?

And his airbrush renderings are pretty damn well executed, Id say at a beginning professional level. Did you even check them out?

I also apologize for hurting everyones eyes with my sailor talk.

[Jacob Kobryn]

Holy crap did I make a mistake by posting this thread! Wow. I don't know whats with all of the false assumptions. I searched my entire website and couldn't find the "I'm amazingly only 14 look at me!". Please post a link or quote to where I said that I was amazing.
The reason to send this around isn't to " myself". I was kind of sad that I only got 30 views or however many and I saw this show called iCaught about youtube where they talked about sending stuff around to get more views. I thought it would be a fun experiment.
I paint for fun so I really don't care about all this stuff. I'm pretty good for my age I guess but even if I sucked I would still paint as much as I do. My signature is exactly true. I'm not bragging about my age, I'm just learning. I think that age encourages people to comment when the art really isn't all that good. Maybe I should change my signature to "[censured] and learning early!" no ones ever given me this much crap about my age before, on any site, or live, or anywhere. I wasn't aware I was doing anything wrong?
My computer barely runs painter. The programs I put on it are simply frying it! It's REALLY REALLY loud when used and even louder when using a high memory program like painter. I frequently get the message "low virtual" memory and sometimes my computer all of a sudden freezes. It's not much but I saved all of my money to buy it and that IMO means something. The only "job" I have is that I teach airbrushing to someone every month or so and I'm waiting on being able to paint a bike or something for pay. I've applied for jobs in art stores and other places and I've always been turned down. Don't think I don't try to work, I'm just not that lucky around it.
Admin or lord of CA will you please lock this thread as it's turned in to almost "Conceptart.org's the Roast of Jake Kobrin".
Does anyone at least have any comments about my painting?
Jake

[Justin.]

"I think that age encourages people to comment"

You know what encourages people to comment?

commenting on their stuff first.

Also; Try mowing lawns or walking dogs or babysitting. Art stores are very hard jobs to get, because everyone loves to work there. You can't only apply to places you want to work, you gotta suck it the fuck up and apply at a grocery store, willing to work late nights. At 14 grocery is probably the only place that will hire you.

This site is about serious critique and learning. If you don't want critique, there are other sites such as DA that are more fitting.

If you were around longer you'd realize this is hardly a roast compared with some others.
he reason to send this around isn't to " myself". I was kind of sad that I only got 30 views or however many and I saw this show called iCaught about youtube where they talked about sending stuff around to get more views.

yes jake, THIS is called 'whoring'.

If you want to get better at art, take the advice. If you don't particularly care, then do as you will.

[Jacob Kobryn]

I critique plenty. I don't come on the site all that much though, I guess I actually do things unlike you who sits in front of the computer all day... I mean really, what an asshole thing to say, I can't hide my age, What am I supposed to do now. Delete this account and start a new one where no one knows my identity? I mean come on. So far the people on this site seem awful, worse than deviantart if that's possible...
I will give you I don't have enough time, I have seven and a half hours of school then hours of homework after that. When am I supposed to work?
THANK YOU TIM! You're the only one who was good enough to stand up for me and I love you for it!
Jake

[Dile_]

Tim. Ok, I'm sorry as well. And I understand.

I just want to clearify , as in my post I seems completley obsessed with the fact he is 14.

I *started* the whollleeee first post, BECAUSE, I could see myself ( when I was a bit younger ) in it. And I could REALLY relate to it, and KNEW where this would go if NO ONE put a stop on it.

I got to CA, being 13, thinking i was really good. ( And shit, I had only been doing art for a few weeks when I did... Wonder what i would have fought If I'd waited to get on CA even longer : E ) And as you put it, "You come back with a red nose" ... Right ? Thats what happened to me. Its just shit when a REALLY talanted guy , like this one, turns into a devianTART'ist ...

Now, yes, I was the guy who slightly, or "bluntly" as someone put it, tried to hit this guy in the face.
And again, it IS because of the way he presents his age. Its BAD. I am not jealous.. I'm just saying that I can relate to it.. And wanted to put a small stop for it.. Just open the guys eyes.

And you are right, he only mention his age 2 times in the video. After that its
"Young" or "young artist" . BUT, he have it in his SIG, His video title, in a lot of his posts, his website... etc.

Stuff like that ( Again!! I've done this myself.. Even worse then this guy does ) is really annoying.

NO 25 year olds have it in their sig, their titles, their posts, their sketchbook titles..

Some people MAYBE put their age in the introduction.. And answers when someone ask.

But the idea of, of putting his name out now, is really BAD too.
I mean, think that m@, was famous now, in everyones mind, because of the stuff he did when he was.... lets say 17 ? ( I don't know if he drawed serious when he was my age.. therefore seventeen is good I guess )

If he was recognized for the stuff he did when he was 17, NOT MANY , I think, would bother to look for his portfolio. Even more bother to look for his
sketchbook.

Lets take the slightly better example of WESLEY BURT! . The guy was Uber good at 22.
This is something that obviously got stuck on my own, and MANY other people here on CA.
This is a good mindset for him. I mean, he is young, and really good! and people think "Wheres that 20 year old guy who's pencil are magic and make the most awesome stuff ever made!?!"

He might not be 20, and he might not have magic pencils.. But they will start to looking, if they , lets say saw his stuff a year ago, and want to see it again.


I'm just saying, that showing your ass to early might be a really bad choice.
Because, as I said, when your art speaks for you ( as in : "I saw a piece... damn I loved it, but I can't remember the artists name... But I know his website!" or "ahh, that piece! of course I know him, thats *******" )

It might be really bad to make decent art, in a bad age.

Man, I even got kicked out of INDY - Projects because of my age.
And that has nothing to do with attitude ( even though you might think so now.) I always try to not grab any attention, or act like if I were one to know something.
When I don't mention my age at all. People think I'm 18 - 25 . And I really think that is better , then telling someone 5 times that you are 15.
I try to stay with my age, outside the conversation for as long as I can.
When I got this current job I was VERY careful not to mention my age, except until' it was clear that he liked my stuff, and that he thought i would "fit the team" ... Even after that, I was careful not to sound like if i bragged over my age, or mentioned it to often..

1 time is enough... If someone is 14, you'll remember it pretty well anyways, especially if its good art : )

I can tell you, that I will never forget your age angus :P

*Ps, Tim, again, I said that he is , I can't say this enough times.. but, he is VERY GOOD for his age. That includes the stuff he have on his website : )
I never denied his obvious skill, only his attitude, because I knew where it was going :E

edit* and no offense man, but you took down "AMAZING YOUNG ARTIST" from your site this morning. So stop playing dumbass.

[Dile_]

I critique plenty. I don't come on the site all that much though, I guess I actually do things unlike you who sits in front of the computer all day... I mean really, what an asshole thing to say, I can't hide my age, What am I supposed to do now. Delete this account and start a new one where no one knows my identity? I mean come on. So far the people on this site seem awful, worse than deviantart if that's possible...
I will give you I don't have enough time, I have seven and a half hours of school then hours of homework after that. When am I supposed to work?
THANK YOU TIM! You're the only one who was good enough to stand up for me and I love you for it!
Jake



I didn't noticed this shit til' now. And I'm sorry to bring it up again. But now, who the fuck are you to say that ?

You just spammed about a youtube chain, ( if it would been a member with 1 post, it would certainly been called SPAM )

I have, admitted already, that I was an asshole, TO the orignal poster, which is you. You don't need to bring it up again. BUT if the guy would have been older. I would probably not been considered an asshole. So what can I say.. Stop bitching and whining dude.

And saying that I don't have a life, thats just wrong. I go to school, I work, I practice gymnastics, I got friends, .. Those things take an awful lot of time out of my tiny 24 hours. But I still have the time to care about how you COULD'VE become a better person and artist.

But after reading your latest, it was NOT WORTH getting on bad level with TIM, because he is an amazing artist, and I really respect him as an artist and person.
OR typing the other stuff about how you COULD have presented your stuff instead, and why its better / worse to do how you've done.

Can I call you a hypocrite now ? If so I would very much like to , because you act very much like one.

Yepp . Hypocrite.

[Justin.]

"I critique plenty. I don't come on the site all that much though, I guess I actually do things unlike you who sits in front of the computer all day...
Oh yes me, who definitely does not work 2 jobs not including art, who definitely does not pay for his own stuff by working hard for it, who definitely isn't working on paintings or still lives.



I mean really, what an asshole thing to say, I can't hide my age, What am I supposed to do now. Delete this account and start a new one where no one knows my identity? I mean come on.
Do you KNOW how long it took me to erase my identity from when I first joined? do you have ANY FUCKING IDEA? Even now people remember that person when they see my posts. It's a tough world out there, but throwing a one man pity party does nothing to solve it.


So far the people on this site seem awful, worse than deviantart if that's possible...
You are judgmental about deviantart as well!!! How does that make you any better than us? We are calling you out on a BAD business decision. How about instead we let you prance around your age throne, aware that it will hurt you later on? That would be a much better thing to do, don't you agree?


I will give you I don't have enough time, I have seven and a half hours of school then hours of homework after that. When am I supposed to work?
-next post is ranting, very graphic and written on an impulse.-

Don't you even fucking start with me, bub. Schedule; Wake up at 6 AM. Go to school at 7. Get out at 2:30, work at 3:30 until 10:00 with a break only long enough to get soda and a yogurt. Get home, do homework until I fall asleep, waking up with AP history notes on my face. There are these things called "Days off", and "weekends". When I was 15, I filled up 140 pages of a sketchbook in 2 weeks with life drawings done in only our 25 minute lunch period. The pages were packed. You have EASY CLASSES. When I was 14 I was taking all honors classes, 1 College level english, and a math 2 times above my grade level. How can you even START with "I don't have time". Again, call me an asshole, or anyone else, please. Normally I don't take people who make excuses this harsh, but if you aren't dedicated enough to even MAKE TIME TO DRAW, then WHY EVEN BOTHER ASKING FOR SUPPORT? Start with a SKETCHBOOK, it's cheap, it has unlimited RAM, and you get a much higher definition than you can possibly get in painter. Oh yeah and it's "silent" because loud computers ARE SO DISTRACTING!!!!
BTW, I had it easy. I know kids who are studying sun up and sun down with their classes, I'm not even complaining, just comparing. 7 hours? boo-hoo. There are 24 hours in a day, last time I checked.

Not even going to bother to address the last part.

Doing what you are doing now is only digging you deeper. From this point you essentially have 2 choices; swallow your pride, take the advice and drop it, continue at where you are now; or be cemented into the memory of many many people the way you are acting now.


This thread will get locked soon anyways, no thanks to me and dile ;D


EDIT: also, Dile is correct, you did remove the places that said "amazing artist" and the like, because I had copy pasted them and now they are nowhere to be found.

[Jacob Kobryn]

Dude it wasn't you I was talking about, it was Justin Oaksford. And thanks for your words of wisdom. :teeth:
And no I didn't take that off my site this morning. If you look at my page info (right click, page info) you can see that I haven't updated my site since Sunday, August 19, 2007 3:56:25 PM.
I guess who ever posted that never actually saw it...

[Jacob Kobryn]

Check all of my pages, they all say the 19th. Another way is Tools> page info
Jake

[Steph Laberis]

Guys, please resolve this via PMs. This thread is so unbelievably off-topic, it burns.

Lockity-locked.