Elektra 2-d

[edmiglia]

2-d elektra pen and ink finished with photoshop.
My first post. Pose after Bill Sienkiewicz, Elektra Assassin. If you don't have it already, get it. Marvel re-printed it in their finest series.

http://procutlery.com/ed site/elektra2c.jpg

My site: ocutlery.com/ed site/Ed Migliaccio fine concept art.htm (http://www.procutlery.com/ed site/Ed Migliaccio fine concept art.htm)

[LC3]

Damn! You captured her perfectly!

[gallon]

...and you posted her twice :)

[Living Rope]

ahem... did you use any ref for that one ?

[boehmke]

Yeah he must have used reference...

http://www.omelete.com.br/imagens/quadrinhos/artigos/elektra/elektra3.jpg

[madphill]

no mention of reference or source or props to the artist who formerly did it....be careful........the admins will boot you for that

[Juice5942]

I think the picture is more a representation of style, than claiming to be original. I mean we don't give credit when we draw a live model or when we use a photo reference.

That being said, I certainly would have given credit for at least the inspiration of the other picture. It's just the polite thing to do.

[edmiglia]

Its pretty obvious where I got the pose from. I'm a huge fan of Sienkiewicz, and wanted to represent the pose in a different style.

[tegehel]

Well, obvious or not, it's standard to post the reference, It's true that people were kicked out of this forum for doing what you did. There's a subtle difference between plagiarism and an homage, and the line's more than blurred here. It's only fair to the original artist (and not everyone may be aware of Sienkewicz's piece, since not everyone's a S. fan).

Fair warning.

C.

PS: Juice, I agree with you for photo or model, but if you copy a piece of art, that is, something that has already been created by someone else, it's a different story, I believe.

[tegehel]

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10539

This issue is being taken seriously, see above, and being defensive is not going to make you either popular nor right. Just understand the issue and move on. We all make mistakes...next time, you'll know what to do.

C.

[Fozzybar]

edmiglia...keep cool, no one is offending you. We are just pointing you to an issue, you probably are not aware of...

Just imagine: You are surfing on the net and see a new art forum you didn't know before. You are looking through the threads and then you discover one, where YOUR artwork is posted just slightly different. The one, who posted gets many bravos and backslappings, how creative and awesome his art is...but it's not his, it's YOURS! The guy even didn't mention anything about you...

Do you understand what the problem is?

Btw i never heard about Sienkewicz...so i thought this artwork was totally yours...;)

[shadowdancer]

I don't post up here often, but this has gotten a little out of hand.

It looks like you're busted dude. You didn't give credit until after someone pointed it out (look at the edited date). Are you trying to pull one over on us?

In any case, a 'homage' and outright copying the pose is a completely different thing, regardless of different style. Don't deny it.

If you want to prove your "creative talent" and "concept art" skills (as you have it listed under in your "portfolio" on your website), then let's see some originality here.

My co-worker here, who's a big fan of electra (and is also a fellow artist) absolutely dispises you.

[edmiglia]

shadowdancer, I didn't post refrence because i was "busted". Do you think I assumed no one would realize where the pose came from? It's his most popular book. To me It was like painting Turner's Mother, or American Gothic or something. It's obvious to me, but i guess not to everyone. Don't assume everyone is out to screw everybody.

[daniela]

Hey edmiglia, you need to chill out. Take the criticism and move on. Plagerism is a big problem and you have to be very careful. Even if you think that everyone will know the work of the particular artist you are paying "homage" to, there should still be something in the post that names the original artist. Instead of just putting in the credit when you edited your post, you should have put in an apology and explained your mistake. That way no one would have jumped down your throat and you would not have gotten so frustrated with all of the comments being about your alleged rip-off instead of crits on your piece. Don't assume everyone knows what you are talking about or everyone will assume that YOU are out to get everyone.

BTW: There is something off in the anatomy of Elektra. I don't know what it is, but something doesn't look quite right to me. It spoils the whole piece. That is just my opinion, though. Maybe one of the more experienced artists here can figure out what I mean and explain it to the both of us.


Edit 1:00 am: I was looking over the other threads to see if there were any new posts, and I thought of something that I should have said earlier. Don't take this the wrong way (I'm sure you have no intentions of doing what this person did), but Chris Runyon probably started out innocently learning by basing his works on originals by other artists, like you did. Eventually you get so used to it you can't come up with your own ideas anymore and have to copy and steal from others to keep going. I know that you are not doing the same thing as Runyon, but remember that it is very easy to become just like him.

I'm sorry that this post is so long, but reading about Runyon in several different forums has made me very angry. I do not want to see an artist with potential go the way he did.

[c0g]

Nice drawing. I think maybe her arms are too short, however. Look at the reference you used. You will see that "whatever his name is" either drew the legs shorter or the arms longer. I'm not that great at drawing, but maybe that's what is off.

[Elwell]

Originally posted by tegehel
(and not everyone may be aware of Sienkewicz's piece, since not everyone's a S. fan).

Well, they should be, dammit!
billsienkiewicz.com (http://www.billsienkiewicz.com/)

[daniela]

Just so no one gets confused, most of my last post was directed towards edmiglia, the artist who allegedly ripped off Bill Sienkiewicz intentionally by posting artwork without referencing whose work he was basing the pose on. I wrote it without thinking that everyone else who looks at this thread would have to read the whole thing. I should have just PMed the guy.

As this is starting to get a little lengthy, I will just add one more thing. c0g, I think you are right when you said either the legs are too short or the arms are too long. It's just that something else seems wrong too. Maybe the head? I am too tired to figure it out right now. I'll probably see what is "off" myself after I have gotten a few hours sleep.

:yawns:

Good night!!

[Teknoholic]

Nobody ever expects ... THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

Seriously dude, don't defend yourself or it'll get worse. Just admit to being a heretic and meybe they'll burn you fast.

Altho, in all fairness, I heard him say this in the original post...
"My first post. Pose after Bill Sienkiewicz, Elektra Assassin. If you don't have it already, get it. Marvel re-printed it in their finest series."

[daniela]

Teknoholic, did you read the other posts:

Shadowdancer: It looks like you're busted dude. You didn't give credit until after someone pointed it out (look at the edited date). Are you trying to pull one over on us?

What you quoted, Teknoholic, was added 2 days after the artwork was posted. The sharp people here at conceptart.org don't miss a beat. If you try to pull one over on them (whether it was intentional or not) you WILL get burned.

[brads3d]

don't argue with tekno... after all he 'heard him say it in the original post'. if you hear voices from a post, it must be Jesus telling you that its true.

[Teknoholic]

I'M CRAZY! I'M going #%#^ing CRAZY! WooOOOoooOOOooo...

And my posts dissappear when I curse at you...

LOL :chug:

This forum used to be HBO, now it's Disney Channel?

Don't make me go to Poo! I hate Eatpoo!

[shadowdancer]

I'm not assuming everyone is out to screw everybody. I'm just assuming YOU'RE trying to screw everybody :D

In any case, this piece isn't worth evaluating - I mean, you even copied the direction of the flowing bandana! That's just too much!

I did check out your site, and I don't mean to insult you, but you do need to work on your skills. I hate it when people brag and think they're hot stuff, when in fact, they're just living in their own little world. Many of my coworkers are like that. I don't need another one.
As Teknoholic stated, just admit you plagerized and move on.
And this time, do something original/inspiring.

[softdrawer]

hah this is fun

[reeves]

I hope you got the message Mr.Migliaccio.
I'm sorry things had to take a turn for the worst, when all you could have done to avoid this mess was admit to an honest mistake.

Now back to your drawing. I think you've done a nice re-interpretation of Bill Sienkiewicz's Elektra, but one thing seems to stand out wrong. The Legs.

Here's what's wrong.
1> In the original picture, Elektra is bent more forward, in your interpretation/homage, Electra is slightly more erect. There's nothing wrong with that so far except for the fact that the Pelvis is protruding to much on the outside of the Left leg.

2> Your Elektra's Legs are much too long [her femur should be as long as her forearm and her hand]...but if that’s the effect you were going for, then good for you.

Keep working at it, and I anticipate we'll see more of Elektra from you soon. [But this time your own original art I hope] Good luck.

[Nivbed]

I think you guys are being silly. He's not freaking out, or getting defensive. Out of the three posts he has made, they were concise and well said.

He messed up by not posting a reference, but he also changed that, and also wrote a post afterwards saying why he didn't post the ref picture originally.

[edmiglia]

Reeves- Yeah the arms in bills are much longer and muscular.
That balances out the heroic-proportioned legs. I like this feedback. The hardest thing to adjust to out of school is the lack of it.

this piece seems to be getting a lot of attention, but for the wrong reasons. Take a look at my other stuff too, OK?

[delduomo]

Originally posted by shadowdancer
I'm not assuming everyone is out to screw everybody. I'm just assuming YOU'RE trying to screw everybody :D

In any case, this piece isn't worth evaluating - I mean, you even copied the direction of the flowing bandana! That's just too much!

I did check out your site, and I don't mean to insult you, but you do need to work on your skills. I hate it when people brag and think they're hot stuff, when in fact, they're just living in their own little world. Many of my coworkers are like that. I don't need another one.
As Teknoholic stated, just admit you plagerized and move on.
And this time, do something original/inspiring. :mad: I am a talent agent who periodically looks through this website for talented people. Edmiglia caught my eye immediately. Why don't you get off this poor guy's back !!!! You sound like a catty old lady bashing this "exceptional" artist for making an honest mistake. Take a look at his website. He puts most of us to shame with his talents. Frankly I like his rendition of Elektra better than the original artist's version. His figure drawings on his website clearly show that he doesn't need to plagerize anyone. His talents are solid versatile. Shadowdancer, sounds like you're the one who's being OFFENSIVE here. Where do you hear him bragging or claiming to be hot stuff? Do you feel better about your work by putting a good artist down? Use your time to enhance your own skills rather than discredit someone else's work.

[Fozzybar]

wow...you needed 3 months to think about this post? :p

...just teasing...;)

[Jason Manley]

the line is crossed when the image used is NOT in public domain.

it is fine to do studies of others work....that is how we get better as artists.

mentioning that the work is a study from a professionals image is the proper thing to do in this case...especially given the rash of plagiarism issues recently.

the artist here could have done that character in an entirely different pose and an entirely different setting and not recieved any uproar....however if that character is copyrighted then the image can only be used for self promotoin and not for sale or otherwise. the character is owned by a company and or an artist already....just changing the brushwork and lighting is not enough to call it ones own.

If the image is in public domain...like a photograph from the turn of the century then you can do with it as you wish....i watched gary kelly use old photographs in this same way for one of his illustration jobs....however he changed it up to the point where it was not obvious where it came from...he made it his own....if it is a famous photo from back then or a work of art then it may still have copyright issues with a museum or artists family.

honestly..all ya have to do to avoid the problem is post your reference and say who the original artist is. what was done here is a great excersize in order to learn from another artist. Ive painted master copy after master copy.....doing that helps a lot.

good luck


jason


ps...this has nothing to do with talent...simply giving credit where credit is due.


j

[ghettomasterchen]

I don't think there's enough line weight and color tone variation in this drawing, thus making it look flat. your ink lines are too thick, makes it look like you traced over it with a marker. if you're gonna reference Sienkiewicz's drawing, try studying how he uses color and shadows in combination with a unique 2d graphic style, he's able to bring out the figure using color and tone to give the figure a solid 3d form on the page.

also her hand holding the blade is wrong, the width of the sword handle is smaller then the way her hand is clinched, looks like her hand's dangling. in bill's version elektra's drawing the sword from the holder. u didn't draw that so it looks unnatural for her to hold the sword like that. you're also missing the front part of the handle to the sword.

it's not that bad for u to reference a pose from another artist or even draw the same character in the same pose, but I would try altering her pose, take certain parts of that pose and tweak it to create a new pose. like she's hunched and drawing the sword but from a different angle, like from the side.

and delduomo you saying "Frankly I like his rendition of Elektra better than the original artist's version"...SURLY you've got to be kidding....the version posted here can not be compared to bill's original version. the sex appeal and ferocity of elektra is completely missing in edmiglia's version not to mention the dynamic use of color in the original.

[mushuhaha]

er, although some people are over reacting, i don't think this piece is getting all the attentions for the wrong reason, but everything thing is well said already.

i just wanna add that on your site you put this picture u posted along other fan arts under the topic of concept art... er, if u'r copying exactly an original piece with a slightly different style, i wouldn't call that concept art, because it somehow adds to the feeling of u actually contributed to the creation of that piece....


ha, now shit is done. i wanna say ur other stuff is looking good. very neat pencil works, and esp the paintings. they all have a very old style kinda feeling to them. i suggest u draw and paint more loosely.

[shadowdancer]

Woah... I posted that a long while ago, and when I re-read it, it did seem quite harsh. Sorry about that, dude.

But for the good of yourself and others, do try something original.