Should I Get a Graphic Tablet or Laptop Tablet? [Archive]

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Max Challie

August 18th, 2007, 06:59 AM

I'm wondering whether I should buy a graphic tablet to connect to this PC, or a tablet laptop. I'm thinking laptop, as it's portable, but I'd still like some help with the decision. The laptop would need to be able to run Linux.

Also, what's the best brand of scanners?

SgtDirtbag

August 18th, 2007, 07:47 AM

I don't own a TabletPC yet, but I'm saving money for one.
Here's my take on it:

Tablet (based on Intuos3):
- 1024 pressure levels
- Angle detection
- You don't look at your hand while you draw
- Not portable (well, you could buy a normal laptop + tablet, but still)
- screen size only limited by the screen you plug into your pc

TabletPC
- 256 pressure levels
- no angle detection
- You draw directly on the screen, big plus for hand-eye-coordination imho!
- Portable, it's like having a clipboard that runs Photoshop and PainterIX, totally awesome
- Fully functional Laptop
- screen sizes vary between 12-14" (12" is the most common one)

Personally, I'm more than willing to sacrifice the extra pressure levels and angle detection of a normal tablet for having a portable, digital sketchbook where I can directly draw on the screen.

But since this is a very personal choice it's in your best interest to try both before you buy if possible.
A good place to get informed about TabletPCs is http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/ .

timpaatkins

August 18th, 2007, 08:52 AM

Ill tell you what they should do, make the cursor pad on a laptop in to a small wacom pad, like 5 x 8 or something, with a a stylus, perfect for making sketches

SgtDirtbag

August 18th, 2007, 08:58 AM

@timpaatkins: Nah, they should push the specs to the level of the Cintiq and make more 14" TabletPCs available.

Clean3d

August 18th, 2007, 11:43 AM

Well, if budget isn't a concern, you could look at a Modbook.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ModBook

You still don't have any tilt support, but I believe these have 512 levels of pressure support instead of 256. Also, there's the question of who you go to if it breaks.

Still, having one of these things with a bluetooth keyboard (Apple Ink won't recognize my bad handwriting :) ) and mouse would be a lot of fun!

F11

August 18th, 2007, 09:08 PM

tablet pc's always fell weird to draw on, but i really want that mod book, it looks amazing !!!!11!!1one!

Max Challie

August 19th, 2007, 06:28 AM

Big-Dave

August 19th, 2007, 10:48 AM

Just how important are pressure levels and angle detection?

Personally I'd say that I haven't noticed a problem with the angle thing, although that might be because I didn't have an intuos 3 (the lower spec tablets don't all have this feature included) As for the pressure sensitivity, it'll depend on how you usually paint. Personally I find that the pressure levels of my tabletPC are just fine for sketching on, but that might be because I don't do a lot with opacity.

Another point maybe worth mentioning, wacom tablets come with control software which determines how it deals with pressure, meaning if you don't usually lean heavily then you can set it so the pressure register is suitable for this. As far as I'm aware, tabletPCs don't come with such a feature (hell, to get pressure sensitivity working on mine I had to install wacom drivers on it, the defaults didn't support it at all)

In the end it's your choice. I'm pretty happy with the tabletPC I got, and definatly prefer it over a graphics tablet, but some people might prefer a tablet instead.

SgtDirtbag

August 19th, 2007, 11:44 AM

Something I've thought about as an advantage of a graphic tablet is the ability to use it with a 32" HDTV with my future PC (which I've wanted for years, so it probably won't happen), but I just thought it would be nice to use Photoshop on a screen that large. Although it might be possible to connect a laptop to that screen. I intend to buy such a thing for my later PS3.That should be possible if your HDTV has a VGA connector.
But I'd confirm it with http://forum.tabletpcreview.com if I were you since I can only speak from a very informed, but still only theoretical point of view because I haven't made my purchase yet.

Just how important are pressure levels and angle detection? How do they affect performance and the feel?That's a matter of taste. Angle detection could give you an added feeling of immersion, tilt the pen and your strokes get broader, just like a real pencil would.
But as I said, personally I value drawing directly where the magic happens over "gimmicks" like that, so for me it's more a battle of Cintiq vs. TabletPC.
So far, the TabletPC is winning because I love to be mobile, I get artists block or whatever you call it when I draw in the same environment all day.

Thanks SgtDirtbag, your post was very helpful. And thanks to everyone else for helping. From the link Clean3d provided, I used the FAQ:That link was also by me, anyway... ; )

1. What is your budget?
- Pretty low, but I want something of good quality, so it'll be a while yet.You should expect to pay around 1500$ if you want something good and around 2000$ if you want the most current top of the line.

2. Do you prefer a Slate, Convertible or Ultra Mobile PC (UMPC)?
- I don't know what those are.A slate is basically a TabletPC without keyboard, have a look: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnuT4Ir6JIQ
A UMPC is basically a very small (10") slate. Think of it as a PDA on steroids.
A convertible gives you the best of both worlds, laptop and slate.
It looks like a laptop but the screen is connected to the base by a swivel hinge that lets you "convert" (hence the name convertible) it into a slate in no time, see: http://youtube.com/watch?v=h9b9dsnTMAg

3. What size Tablet PC would you prefer?
- Probably a large, 14" screen. I don't know how inconvenient this would be, though.There is only one 14" TabletPC on the market so far, the Gateway C-140 series.
It is also the only TabletPC with a dedicated graphiccard (ATI x2300) as an option (more about graphiccards further down).
Here's the product page: http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529666090.php
It weighs around 2.7kg, you should take that into consideration.

The next best thing would be the Asus R1F (13.3" screen) but you should wait because the next Asus, the R1E (with SantaRosa chipset and x3100) has been announced a few weeks ago.

4. Which country do you intent to purchase from?
- Probably New Zealand.Oh crap, Gateway is probably out of the question then.
They're US based and don't have an international selling license but you should confirm that yourself with Gateway if you want a C-140.

5. Do you have any preferences to brand loyalty or dislikes?
- Yes: I like Asus, and Toshiba seem good. I don't like HP or Fujitsu.Is that experience bases on laptops or TabletPCs?
Let me tell you, TabletPCs are really a world of their own.
Asus really fucked up bigtime with the batteries in their R1F line (most of them die within 6months) and the pen silo has been nicknamed "Pen silo of Doom" because it tends to scratch your pen each time you put it in or out.

Fujitsu on the other hand is VERY good from what I've heard, they're not cheap, very reliable and made of very tough components. (unfortunately no alloy-magnesium frames, but still very sturdy)

The most recommended TabletPCs on http://forum.tabletpcreview.com are the Fujitsu and Lenovo models I mentioned.

6. How many hours battery life do you require?
- Moderate amount, I guess (open to recommendations).All of the models I mention in this post should provide you with enough running time (atleast 2.5-3h without powersaving).

7. What do you intend to use the Tablet for?
- Art and Photoshopping.Any current model should run Photoshop easily.
To put things into perspecive, the Lenovo X61t is the slowest of the bunch, but we're still talking about a Core 2 Duo processor with 1.6GHz (meaning it runs two cores at the same time at 1.6GHz), so slow is relative. ;)
(The fastest Core2Duo would be around 2.2 or 2.4 GHz.)

Anyway, that's more of a question if you're gaming or using heavy filters, Photoshop is more RAM than CPU intense.
I would get the model with the lowest RAM configuration and make the upgrade myself, much cheaper than buying pre-installed RAM.

8. Do you have an OS preference?
- Yes, I REALLY want to be able to run Linux.Sorry, no experience with linux here. Have a look at http://forum.tabletpcreview.com.

9. What software and tasks do you intend to run?
- Photoshop, and GTK Radiant are all I can think of.
You should be happy with any of the current models.

10. Do you intend playing Games. If so please list.
- Yes, but mostly old ones.
- Homeworld, Homeworld Cataclysm, and Homeworld 2 would also be nice.
- Quake III Arena, and maybe Quake 4, but it's not a priority.I mentioned dedicated graphiccards earlier, didn't I?
See, the Gateway C-140 is the only one that has one, but for games like you mentioned an internal card should be enough except for Homeworld, can't comment on its requirements and Quake4 will probably only run on the Gateway and perhaps (but I think only on low to medium details) on the x3100 when Intel finally releases their drivers, but let me explain.

We have basically two types of internal cards made by Intel, a VERY old (GMA950) and a current one (x3100) and then there's everything else made by Nvidia and Ati.

In general:

Integrated Cards:
- low heat emission
- low power consumption
- low performance
- long battery life
- doesn't have its own RAM, uses system RAM

Dedicated card by Nvidia/Ati:
- high heat emission
- high power consumption
- high performance
- short battery life
- has its own RAM

Category one: Intel GMA950
This is the cheapest integrated solution there is. Good for anything 2D and light 3D but gaming can be a bitch on this one, but it doesn't necesserally have to.
The big drawback is, that this card doesn't have a Hardware Texture and Lighting unit (the part of the card that is responsible for any dynamic light effects and certain 3D effects).
That means that some games won't run at all and some games will only run if the CPU emulates Hardware T&L.
You'd need a strong CPU because it has to do its own work and that of the graphiccard too.

This one is capable of running UT2k4 fluid at medium resolution/graphicdetails.

Category two: Intel x3100
This is the newest card made by intel and a BIG leap forward from the GMA950 but still slower than dedicated cards (to put things into perspective, 3dmark05 on GMA950: 505pts, x3100: 922pts, Ati x2300: 1571pts).
The biggest improvement with the x3100 is that it actually has its own Hardware T&L unit, but we're still waiting for intel to release the final drivers.
They're scheduled for late 2007.

This one can run UT2k4 with all bells and whistles enabled.

For a complete list of Graphiccards have a look at this site: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Mobile-Grafikkarten-Benchmarkliste.735.0.html

Another thing I should mention is the chipset (the chipset is everything that connects the cpu and the ram and everything else together, in other words the motherboard) the TabletPC is built on.
All TabletPCs with a x3100 are also running the most current "SantaRosa" chipset.
It has some additional performance and energy saving options opposed to older chipsets that are bundled with the GMA950.

SantaRosa + x3100:
Fujitsu T4220
Lenovo X61t
Asus R1E
Gateway C-140

Old chipset (forget its name) + GMA950:
Fujitsu T4215
Lenovo X60t
Asus R1F

Screen Specifics
1. Do you prefer standard or widescreen?
- Widescreen I suppose, but it's not overly important.
The Asus R1F/R1E and the Gateway C-140 are the only TabletPCs with widescreen (both 1280x800).

2. What resolution do you prefer?
- Really not sure, help would be much appreciated.
Have a look at this post I made a while ago.
It's not very professional but maybe it helps you.
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showpost.php?p=63087&postcount=13

As a quick overview:

Fujitsu T4215/20
12.1" Screen, either 1024x768 (XGA) or 1440x1050 (SXGA+)

Lenovo X61t
12.1" Screen, either XGA or SXGA+ and there is a model that has XGA + touchscreen technology (referred to as "MultiTouch" because it has an active and a passive digitizer).

Asus R1F/E
13.3" 1280x800 (WXGA)

Gateway C-140
14" WXGA

As a sidenote: Lenovo and Fujitsu are currently only selling their XGA options because of supply shortages with their SXGA+ screen sources, but it is only a matter of time until all options are available again.

3. Do you require an Indoor only or Indoor/Outdoor screen option?
- Indoor sounds most appealing to me.
I know the SXGA+ in Lenovo and Fujitsu are Indoor/Outdoor, meaning you should be able to work in the shade and bright sunlight.
I don't know about the others though, you better have a look at http://forum.tabletpcreview.com .

4. Do you require a Passive or Active Digitizer?
- Active Digitizer, yes.

5. Do you require Wacom or Finepoint Technology?
- Wacom.All models I mentioned are powered by Wacom and have 256 pressure levels.

Component Specifics
1. What size Hard Drive and Memory do you require?
- 80GB HDD would be good.Any model I mentioned should have atleast that much HDD space.

2. Do you require an Optical Drive?
- I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know what this is.A DVD drive or a DVD burner.
All TabletPCs I mentioned except for the Lenovo X61t have built-in drives.

Okay. The bottomline is, have a good look at these models:

Fujitsu 4215 or T4220, Lenovo X61t, Asus R1F or R1E, Gateway C-140.

Don't hesitate to ask further questions and I highly recommend to read up on each of the models on http://forum.tabletpcreview.com .

F11

August 19th, 2007, 03:25 PM

does anyone know if the modbook is shipping yet, if it is I'll totaly invest in one as soon as possiple

Max Challie

August 31st, 2007, 01:28 AM

Just going to bump up the thread to make sure it doesn't get deleted while I make my decision.

ChrisMayernik

August 31st, 2007, 11:26 AM

I have the Fujitsu T4215 tablet pc. I LOVE IT. It makes work,research, everything easier. Microsoft onenote for the tablet pc is AMAZING! Be sure to get vista if you get a tablet pc because it makes the pen much more responsive.
I got a desktop pc with a wacom also, but I use my tablet pc for all sketching and research type stuff and long term projects I'll work on the desktop, well it really depends on the project. I love how light my tablet pc is even with the extra battery in the modular bay (4 pounds). It last about 7 hours with both batteries but this is while working in photoshop so It'll probably last longer just surfing or something. I have 2 gigs of ram and everything runs super smooth. I notice no difference between my 2.8 core duo desktop and my 1.6 core duo tablet.
The 12 inch screen is perfect for my small hands and a larger screen would just be awkward for drawing. I got the SXGA screen which I love, and I WOULD defiantly get this over the XGA because you get more room and detail. The text is not to small and all the font sizes can be changed if you want to adjust those settings. Mine was ordered of Fujitsu ebay store and I got a amazing deal.
Also get a www.goincase.com/ carrying bag or sleeve because they are very well designed and perfect for a 12 inch tablet. Peace

Max Challie

September 11th, 2007, 07:13 AM

SgtDirtbag, you're from Hamburg? Heh, that's where the rest of my family is from. I was born in Hawaii, though.

At this point, I'm definitely getting a TabletPC. I'll probably get a DAS Keyboard: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8396/ to connect to the PC for keyboard shortcuts while it's in 'slate mode'. I'll also connect my recently purchased Logitech G5 2007 Edition mouse. How is the VX Revolution, if you know?

That should be possible if your HDTV has a VGA connector.
But I'd confirm it with http://forum.tabletpcreview.com if I were you since I can only speak from a very informed, but still only theoretical point of view because I haven't made my purchase yet.

Come to think of it, it doesn't matter enough to me to affect my decision. It'd be pretty nice for games and things, but when it comes to Art, that'll all be on the Tablet's screen.

That's a matter of taste. Angle detection could give you an added feeling of immersion, tilt the pen and your strokes get broader, just like a real pencil would.
But as I said, personally I value drawing directly where the magic happens over "gimmicks" like that, so for me it's more a battle of Cintiq vs. TabletPC.
So far, the TabletPC is winning because I love to be mobile, I get artists block or whatever you call it when I draw in the same environment all day.

Yeah. I'm not sure if I get that either, but for me it's more worth having my hand on the screen than having added immersion. Thanks also to Big-Dave for helping me with this.

That link was also by me, anyway... ; )

Aha, sorry. Didn't realize ;D I was trying to work out who gave me that link, since there were so many, while switching between the topic and the message on my Dial-Up connection. Takes a while. XD

You should expect to pay around 1500$ if you want something good and around 2000$ if you want the most current top of the line.

By the time I get this they'll probably be cheaper, and there would be new ones out that might fit me more. I guess I'll post this again when I have enough money for the model I want by the end of this topic.

A slate is basically a TabletPC without keyboard, have a look: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnuT4Ir6JIQ
A UMPC is basically a very small (10") slate. Think of it as a PDA on steroids.
A convertible gives you the best of both worlds, laptop and slate.
It looks like a laptop but the screen is connected to the base by a swivel hinge that lets you "convert" (hence the name convertible) it into a slate in no time, see: http://youtube.com/watch?v=h9b9dsnTMAg

Yeah, a convertible is definitely what I'm after.

There is only one 14" TabletPC on the market so far, the Gateway C-140 series.
It is also the only TabletPC with a dedicated graphiccard (ATI x2300) as an option (more about graphiccards further down).
Here's the product page: http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529666090.php
It weighs around 2.7kg, you should take that into consideration.

Ah, damn. I just measured an A4 piece of paper, and it's 14". A4 is what I usually draw on.

The next best thing would be the Asus R1F (13.3" screen) but you should wait because the next Asus, the R1E (with SantaRosa chipset and x3100) has been announced a few weeks ago.

Alright, I'll definitely take that into consideration. Will that one have the same battery problem like you said the R1F ones do? And what of the pen for it?

Oh crap, Gateway is probably out of the question then.
They're US based and don't have an international selling license but you should confirm that yourself with Gateway if you want a C-140.

Here in NZ, we have a site called TradeMe, which is like eBay. I've seen a few Gateway's on there before.

Is that experience bases on laptops or TabletPCs?
Let me tell you, TabletPCs are really a world of their own.
Asus really fucked up bigtime with the batteries in their R1F line (most of them die within 6months) and the pen silo has been nicknamed "Pen silo of Doom" because it tends to scratch your pen each time you put it in or out.

I based my liking for Asus on their Motherboards, and my dislike for Fujitsu came from me hearing about their HDDs lasting under a year..

Fujitsu on the other hand is VERY good from what I've heard, they're not cheap, very reliable and made of very tough components. (unfortunately no alloy-magnesium frames, but still very sturdy)

Yeah, the Fujitsu T4215 looks very nice, my first look at a TabletPC.

The most recommended TabletPCs on http://forum.tabletpcreview.com are the Fujitsu and Lenovo models I mentioned.

My next looky was going to be at the Lenovo ThinkPad X60, followed by the X6lt and those other two Fujitsu's you recommended. I'll also have a look at the Gateway C-140 and Asus R1E.

All of the models I mention in this post should provide you with enough running time (atleast 2.5-3h without powersaving).

Any current model should run Photoshop easily.
To put things into perspecive, the Lenovo X61t is the slowest of the bunch, but we're still talking about a Core 2 Duo processor with 1.6GHz (meaning it runs two cores at the same time at 1.6GHz), so slow is relative.
(The fastest Core2Duo would be around 2.2 or 2.4 GHz.)

Anyway, that's more of a question if you're gaming or using heavy filters, Photoshop is more RAM than CPU intense.
I would get the model with the lowest RAM configuration and make the upgrade myself, much cheaper than buying pre-installed RAM.

Yeah, I think I'll do that.

Sorry, no experience with linux here. Have a look at http://forum.tabletpcreview.com.

Thanks.

You should be happy with any of the current models.

I mentioned dedicated graphiccards earlier, didn't I?
See, the Gateway C-140 is the only one that has one, but for games like you mentioned an internal card should be enough except for Homeworld, can't comment on its requirements and Quake4 will probably only run on the Gateway and perhaps (but I think only on low to medium details) on the x3100 when Intel finally releases their drivers, but let me explain.

Homeworld was made in 1999, so it'll run :P And I'm sure that Homeworld 2, made in 2003, will also run. Come to think of it, I'd REALLY like to run Halflife 2. It apparently has a nice art style.

We have basically two types of internal cards made by Intel, a VERY old (GMA950) and a current one (x3100) and then there's everything else made by Nvidia and Ati.

In general:

Integrated Cards:
- low heat emission
- low power consumption
- low performance
- long battery life
- doesn't have its own RAM, uses system RAM

Dedicated card by Nvidia/Ati:
- high heat emission
- high power consumption
- high performance
- short battery life
- has its own RAM

This is where it gets really tricky; I can't decide between them.

Category one: Intel GMA950
This is the cheapest integrated solution there is. Good for anything 2D and light 3D but gaming can be a bitch on this one, but it doesn't necesserally have to.
The big drawback is, that this card doesn't have a Hardware Texture and Lighting unit (the part of the card that is responsible for any dynamic light effects and certain 3D effects).
That means that some games won't run at all and some games will only run if the CPU emulates Hardware T&L.
You'd need a strong CPU because it has to do its own work and that of the graphiccard too.

And I'll be using Photoshop also to create textures to use in the maps I will be creating in GTK Radiant.

This one is capable of running UT2k4 fluid at medium resolution/graphicdetails.

Category two: Intel x3100
This is the newest card made by intel and a BIG leap forward from the GMA950 but still slower than dedicated cards (to put things into perspective, 3dmark05 on GMA950: 505pts, x3100: 922pts, Ati x2300: 1571pts).
The biggest improvement with the x3100 is that it actually has its own Hardware T&L unit, but we're still waiting for intel to release the final drivers.
They're scheduled for late 2007.

This one can run UT2k4 with all bells and whistles enabled.

For a complete list of Graphiccards have a look at this site: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Mobile-...ste.735.0.html

Another thing I should mention is the chipset (the chipset is everything that connects the cpu and the ram and everything else together, in other words the motherboard) the TabletPC is built on.
All TabletPCs with a x3100 are also running the most current "SantaRosa" chipset.
It has some additional performance and energy saving options opposed to older chipsets that are bundled with the GMA950.

SantaRosa + x3100:
Fujitsu T4220
Lenovo X61t
Asus R1E
Gateway C-140

Old chipset (forget its name) + GMA950:
Fujitsu T4215
Lenovo X60t
Asus R1F

Is that for a reason? LOL!

The Asus R1F/R1E and the Gateway C-140 are the only TabletPCs with widescreen (both 1280x800).

Have a look at this post I made a while ago.
It's not very professional but maybe it helps you.
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/show...7&postcount=13

Thank you.

As a quick overview:

Fujitsu T4215/20
12.1" Screen, either 1024x768 (XGA) or 1440x1050 (SXGA+)

Lenovo X61t
12.1" Screen, either XGA or SXGA+ and there is a model that has XGA + touchscreen technology (referred to as "MultiTouch" because it has an active and a passive digitizer).

Asus R1F/E
13.3" 1280x800 (WXGA)

Gateway C-140
14" WXGA

As a sidenote: Lenovo and Fujitsu are currently only selling their XGA options because of supply shortages with their SXGA+ screen sources, but it is only a matter of time until all options are available again.

I know the SXGA+ in Lenovo and Fujitsu are Indoor/Outdoor, meaning you should be able to work in the shade and bright sunlight.
I don't know about the others though, you better have a look at http://forum.tabletpcreview.com .

All models I mentioned are powered by Wacom and have 256 pressure levels.

Nice.

Any model I mentioned should have atleast that much HDD space.

Sweet.

A DVD drive or a DVD burner.
All TabletPCs I mentioned except for the Lenovo X61t have built-in drives.

Thanks!

Okay. The bottomline is, have a good look at these models:

Fujitsu 4215 or T4220, Lenovo X61t, Asus R1F or R1E, Gateway C-140.

Don't hesitate to ask further questions and I highly recommend to read up on each of the models on http://forum.tabletpcreview.com .

I have the Fujitsu T4215 tablet pc. I LOVE IT. It makes work,research, everything easier. Microsoft onenote for the tablet pc is AMAZING! Be sure to get vista if you get a tablet pc because it makes the pen much more responsive.
I got a desktop pc with a wacom also, but I use my tablet pc for all sketching and research type stuff and long term projects I'll work on the desktop, well it really depends on the project. I love how light my tablet pc is even with the extra battery in the modular bay (4 pounds). It last about 7 hours with both batteries but this is while working in photoshop so It'll probably last longer just surfing or something. I have 2 gigs of ram and everything runs super smooth. I notice no difference between my 2.8 core duo desktop and my 1.6 core duo tablet.
The 12 inch screen is perfect for my small hands and a larger screen would just be awkward for drawing. I got the SXGA screen which I love, and I WOULD defiantly get this over the XGA because you get more room and detail. The text is not to small and all the font sizes can be changed if you want to adjust those settings. Mine was ordered of Fujitsu ebay store and I got a amazing deal.
Also get a www.goincase.com/ carrying bag or sleeve because they are very well designed and perfect for a 12 inch tablet.

Sounds good. I looked up a review for the T4220. I like it.

Peace

Yeah sweet.

SXGA+ will definitely be the way for me. On the Indoor/Outdoor and Indoor only thing, does the Indoor's brightness really affect the colours of an image? How dark are the Indoor/Outdoor screens?

The Fujitsu T4220 seems perfect for me, except for the small screen size, which I might actually be fine with. I'd definitely get an extra battery pack for it though.

I'll look up the other TabletPC's soon.

SgtDirtbag

September 11th, 2007, 10:00 AM

SgtDirtbag, you're from Hamburg? Heh, that's where the rest of my family is from. I was born in Hawaii, though.
Hamurg rocks, cold and rainy just how I like it. ^^

How is the VX Revolution, if you know?No idea, sorry.

Alright, I'll definitely take that into consideration. Will that one have the same battery problem like you said the R1F ones do? And what of the pen for it?That is still unknown since it hasn't been released yet.
There is one Asian user on the TabletPcReview forum who claims to know an Asus senior engineer.
Said employee told him that they finally figured out the cause (http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=10227) of the battery problem and that its going to be released in October but not in every country, what ever that means.

Anyway, I'd wait and see until some users and review sites chime in on the battery issue when the R1E is finally available.
No word about the pen silo, though.

Ah, damn. I just measured an A4 piece of paper, and it's 14". A4 is what I usually draw on. Yeah, me too. But 12" isn't THAT much smaller and if Asus really did fix their battery issue,
13.3" is an even closer alternative.

I based my liking for Asus on their Motherboards, and my dislike for Fujitsu came from me hearing about their HDDs lasting under a year..Ah, I see. : )
From what I heard, Fujitsu doesn't even use Fujitsu HDDs in their own TabletPC but Hitachi drives instead. xD

Is that for a reason? LOL!Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. : )

SXGA+ will definitely be the way for me. On the Indoor/Outdoor and Indoor only thing, does the Indoor's brightness really affect the colours of an image? How dark are the Indoor/Outdoor screens?I can only recommend to have a look at the screen of your choice in a store.
There are so many different (VERY subjective) opinions about this issue and unbiased facts are very, very hard to come by.
But from what I've read most people agree that the Fujitsu T4220 SXGA+ screen is brighter and more vivid than the SXGA+ screen of the Lenovo X61T.
On the other hand, the Lenovo screen is supposed to be better outdoors than the Fujitsu.
As I said, it's a complicated issue.

The Fujitsu T4220 seems perfect for me, except for the small screen size, which I might actually be fine with.
I'd definitely get an extra battery pack for it though.Did I mention LaptopAuthority.com (http://laptopauthority.com/) yet?
They ship internationally and they custom configure TabletPCs to suite your budget if you drop them a nice email.

I'll look up the other TabletPC's soon.Oh, one more thing about the Lenovo X61T.
Apparently they're having some quality issues with their screen bezels coming unglued. [1] (http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=8282)[2] (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93#comment-19842)
According to this blog (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93) lenovo technicians are looking into it, but that was about 2 weeks ago (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93#comment-20689).

And here's a little video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OogVYWQLAhM) about the X3100 integrated graphics solution running with the latest (XP) drivers and the following setup:

The config included the new driver, a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 E6600, 2GB of DDR2-800 and Windows XP with SP2 and all the updates. The games ran at several different resoutions from 800x600 to 1024x768. BF2 had some setting set to low including the terrain.

ChrisMayernik

September 12th, 2007, 09:18 PM

Max Challie

September 12th, 2007, 10:00 PM

Hamurg rocks, cold and rainy just how I like it. ^^

Hehe, I love it cold and rainy. Means I can snuggle up to a warm blanket and draw/paint/play videogames/Internets.

My father, on the other hand, gets depressed by it. I still like it over here though. I'll have to visit my roots someday.

No idea, sorry.

That is still unknown since it hasn't been released yet.
There is one Asian user on the TabletPcReview forum who claims to know an Asus senior engineer.
Said employee told him that they finally figured out the cause (http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=10227) of the battery problem and that its going to be released in October but not in every country, what ever that means.

Anyway, I'd wait and see until some users and review sites chime in on the battery issue when the R1E is finally available.
No word about the pen silo, though.

OK, thanks.

Yeah, me too. But 12" isn't THAT much smaller and if Asus really did fix their battery issue,
13.3" is an even closer alternative.

Yeah, I should be fine with 12".

Ah, I see. : )
From what I heard, Fujitsu doesn't even use Fujitsu HDDs in their own TabletPC but Hitachi drives instead. xD

LOL. I might want to replace it with a WD drive though. Heard they really are the best, and they always struck me as good.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. : )

I was talking about the fact that you didn't remember the name of that old chipset, probably because it's crappy.

I can only recommend to have a look at the screen of your choice in a store.
There are so many different (VERY subjective) opinions about this issue and unbiased facts are very, very hard to come by.
But from what I've read most people agree that the Fujitsu T4220 SXGA+ screen is brighter and more vivid than the SXGA+ screen of the Lenovo X61T.
On the other hand, the Lenovo screen is supposed to be better outdoors than the Fujitsu.
As I said, it's a complicated issue.

I don't know where I'd find a store that sells them though.

Did I mention LaptopAuthority.com (http://laptopauthority.com/) yet?
They ship internationally and they custom configure TabletPCs to suite your budget if you drop them a nice email.

Wow, sounds good.

Oh, one more thing about the Lenovo X61T.
Apparently they're having some quality issues with their screen bezels coming unglued. [1] (http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=8282)[2] (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93#comment-19842)
According to this blog (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93) lenovo technicians are looking into it, but that was about 2 weeks ago (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93#comment-20689).

Huh, interesting. Fujitsu keeps popping into mind, must be good. I've still got to check out those other few Tablets.

And here's a little video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OogVYWQLAhM) about the X3100 integrated graphics solution running with the latest (XP) drivers and the following setup:

Ah, hard to do on a Dial-Up connection. I saw how it went though, for a bit. Is Battlefield 2 around about as advanced as Quake 4/Halflife 2?

Hehehe, thank ya!!

SgtDirtbag

September 13th, 2007, 08:02 AM

Hehe, I love it cold and rainy. Means I can snuggle up to a warm blanket and draw/paint/play videogames/Internets.Sounds exactly like my afternoons. ^^

Ah, hard to do on a Dial-Up connection. I saw how it went though, for a bit. Is Battlefield 2 around about as advanced as Quake 4/Halflife 2?The X3100 runs Battlefield2 at medium/low details so I guesstimate it should be able to run Quake4 at the same settings and HL2 at full details.

LOL. I might want to replace it with a WD drive though. Heard they really are the best, and they always struck me as good.WD are very reliable and would make a good choice.

I was talking about the fact that you didn't remember the name of that old chipset, probably because it's crappy.Ah, alright. : )
And yes, it IS crappy. Nobody should have to suffer through that unless the most graphic intense application you use is word. ;)

I don't know where I'd find a store that sells them though.Yea, I know that problem. Most store owners around here don't even know such things exist.

Hehehe, thank ya!!
You're welcome. :)

Max Challie

September 20th, 2007, 09:43 PM

The 12.in Fujitsu screen is fine. Who even draws with a sketchpad larger then 12 inches! seriously its the perfect size. Do get a extra battery. Also forget that keyboard crap. just use a Wi remote which is bluetooth and connect and program it to your tablet.

Use http://carl.kenner.googlepages.com/glovepie_download to program the wi remote.

It will take some time to program the keys for photoshop but just save your profile and you'll be ready to rock. Actually if you want I can send you my profile and save you time programming. Email me at chris@chrismayernik.com . of course you'll need my photoshop shortcuts also to match the profile.

Sorry Chris, I didn't notice your post. When these posts get long and fast it's hard to keep track XD

That's good idea, I'll send you an email.

Sounds exactly like my afternoons. ^^

Hehe.

The X3100 runs Battlefield2 at medium/low details so I guesstimate it should be able to run Quake4 at the same settings and HL2 at full details.

Sweet. Thanks!

WD are very reliable and would make a good choice.

Ja, I'd probably get a big one.

Ah, alright. : )
And yes, it IS crappy. Nobody should have to suffer through that unless the most graphic intense application you use is word.

:P

Yea, I know that problem. Most store owners around here don't even know such things exist.

Yeah. I go into any retail store and no one has them v_v

You're welcome.

Hehe. That was actually a quote of the merchant from Resident Evil 4 :P You have really fast replies, cheers.

Max Challie

October 9th, 2007, 10:11 PM

Chris - What's the advantage of Wi Remotes?

Which specific Incase product would you recommend? Are they very durable?

I saw a Fujitsu T2010, which has a magnesium-alloy build, but still doesn't look very good.

I saw what might be a Tablet PC in a retail store today, it was an HP that they called a 'touchscreen', though it required a pen, which was missing. It was 12.1, and I moved my hand across it fluently, which really seemed fine even when I imagined all the software frames around it (Photoshop, etc). I spent most of my time playing with the conversion of the screen, though. These things are so damn awesome! XD

SgtDirtbag

October 19th, 2007, 09:14 PM

I wouldn't recommend the T2010. It only comes with a C2D 1.06GHz or 1.2GHz processor which is VERY slow compared to the Lenovo X61 (1.6GHz) or Fujitsu T4020 (up to 2.4GHz depending on configuration).

About that HP, make sure it's got an active digitizer. Some HP models are called "TabletPC" but they only respond to pressure in the same way a PDA touchscreen does, meaning they only sense full-pressure/no-pressure without any levels in between.

And by the way, Lenovo finally found a solution (http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=93#comment-25168) to the bezel coming unglued problems on their X61.
It'll still take them some time until the new bezel is manufactured in large enough numbers to replace all faulty bezels, though.

Tim Supples Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 2:58 pm

Hello everyone,
I am happy to report that we do have a solution for the bezel separation. The most detail I have on the fix right now is that it is actually a revised bezel part. It will take several weeks for the parts to become available through our various service organizations. I would recommend waiting to request service until the parts are in ready supply to reduce the time your notebook is out for service. When the new bezels are available, we will do a formal announcement with more details. We appreciate the patience of those experiencing this issue and the help and support of those customers who aided in gathering facts, including those who provided their systems for analysis.

Max Challie

October 25th, 2007, 08:56 PM

I wouldn't recommend the T2010. It only comes with a C2D 1.06GHz or 1.2GHz processor which is VERY slow compared to the Lenovo X61 (1.6GHz) or Fujitsu T4020 (up to 2.4GHz depending on configuration).

About that HP, make sure it's got an active digitizer. Some HP models are called "TabletPC" but they only respond to pressure in the same way a PDA touchscreen does, meaning they only sense full-pressure/no-pressure without any levels in between.

And by the way, Lenovo finally found a solution to the bezel coming unglued problems on their X61.
It'll still take them some time until the new bezel is manufactured in large enough numbers to replace all faulty bezels, though.

Cheers!

You should expect to pay around 1500$ if you want something good and around 2000$ if you want the most current top of the line.

What currency are you speaking in?

I don't like the silver on the T4220, so I'll have to do something about that. Some kind of customization sounds good to me, but not until I have a 100% safe process. I think of the Gateway C-140 as a not-too distant second option, but I'll have to look around some more.

They also had a Wacom Graphic Tablet in the same store. I tried it out, but didn't like the texture on it much; it felt too rough for my taste. I didn't notice any pressure levels, but there was nothing like Photoshop available, it was just the login screen to Vista.

On an off-topic note, I had a look at your Deviant page, only to find that you like Fightclub and admire Ian McConville. They're similarities we share. I really like Ian's style. It's very solid, yet relaxed. And it has none of those 'Photoshoppy' textures that are common among the works on here especially. You know the ones? They're kind of murky, acidic textures.

SgtDirtbag

October 26th, 2007, 05:08 AM

What currency are you speaking in?
American dollars.

I don't like the silver on the T4220, so I'll have to do something about that. Some kind of customization sounds good to me, but not until I have a 100% safe process.Yea, it looks cheap as hell.
But getting a custom paintjob will probably instantkill your warranty. : /

I think of the Gateway C-140 as a not-too distant second option, but I'll have to look around some more.If you're fine with its weight (~3kg) and its screen resolution (WXGA as opposed to the possibilty of SXGA+ on T4220/X61t) you get the most powerful TabletPC currently available.

On an off-topic note, I had a look at your Deviant page, only to find that you like Fightclub and admire Ian McConville.
Just read through FightClub again the other day, it's just an amazing story and so full of great inspirational quotes. : D

They're similarities we share. I really like Ian's style. It's very solid, yet relaxed. And it has none of those 'Photoshoppy' textures that are common among the works on here especially. You know the ones? They're kind of murky, acidic textures.
Yea, I think I know what you mean.
Ian has a very clean, colorful style and I LOVE his decision to drop the outlines (http://www.machall.com/view.php?date=2003-06-03) and give his comics a more cell-shaded (http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comics/057.jpg) appearance.

Max Challie

November 7th, 2007, 06:48 AM

American dollars.

Ah, thanks again. :) Working that out, it looks like it'll cost a lot less than I expected.

Yea, it looks cheap as hell.
But getting a custom paintjob will probably instantkill your warranty. : /

Indeed. Well, maybe I could create some sort of skin thing to apply, once that's painted. Something that could be removed quite easily. They have them for all videogame consoles, but for a specific TabletPC model, no. I can probably just get past the cheap look though.

If you're fine with its weight (~3kg) and its screen resolution (WXGA as opposed to the possibilty of SXGA+ on T4220/X61t) you get the most powerful TabletPC currently available.

It's right up there in the top considerations, but I'm thinking about them all really.

Just read through FightClub again the other day, it's just an amazing story and so full of great inspirational quotes. : D

I need to read the book. I've only seen the movie, and only once. I was quite obsessed with it all for a few months, and remember that time as my 'survival horror' time or something, 'cause I was preparing myself for survival horror and things like that, haha. Well, now that I think about it, it started with Fight Club/Streetfighting and socialism, with connections to Anarchists in Germany (about stealing from the rich to give to the poor) that I read about, then GTA: San Andreas made me think about it even more, and it slowly moved more towards survival horror and stuff after too much gaming, XD

I don't know how I got out of this phase, maybe it was art. I'm not sure though, haha.

Yea, I think I know what you mean.
Ian has a very clean, colorful style and I LOVE his decision to drop the outlines (http://www.machall.com/view.php?date=2003-06-03) and give his comics a more cell-shaded (http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comics/057.jpg) appearance.

This (http://http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106020) is where I came to a conscious opinion about the textures, mainly after reading Nexus' post.

Which TabletPC do you want to buy, SgtDirtbag?

I might be going to Germany in a few months. My father is coming over here in December, then going back in March, and I might go back with him to look at Art Galleries in Europe and stuff. I'll learn German pretty quick if I go over there, hehe.. I'm still thinking about it, but thought I'd mention it as it might be possible to meet you or something : )

SgtDirtbag

November 8th, 2007, 08:36 AM

I need to read the book. I've only seen the movie, and only once.
It's a great read if you know the movie. The writing style is just great and unique.

I was quite obsessed with it all for a few months, and remember that time as my 'survival horror' time or something, 'cause I was preparing myself for survival horror and things like that, haha. Well, now that I think about it, it started with Fight Club/Streetfighting and socialism, with connections to Anarchists in Germany (about stealing from the rich to give to the poor) that I read about, then GTA: San Andreas made me think about it even more, and it slowly moved more towards survival horror and stuff after too much gaming, XD

I don't know how I got out of this phase, maybe it was art. I'm not sure though, haha.Sounds like a crazy time. xD

This (http://http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106020) is where I came to a conscious opinion about the textures, mainly after reading Nexus' post.Ah, I see. : )

Which TabletPC do you want to buy, SgtDirtbag?
Currently the Asus R1E is my fav (http://www.excaliberpc.com/ASUS_R1E-B1_Intel_Core_2_Duo_T7700/90NGBA1132324EQL850T/partinfo-id-583032.html). Well, if they fixed the battery issue of the previous R1F line.
But they start shipping these days I heard, so reviews might not be far.

13.3" Widescreen 1280x800 WXGA
Core 2 Duo 2.4ghz
2GB RAM
160GB HDD
2-2.2kg
Modular bay battery included (BIG plus!)
TV-Out (I could hook it up to my tv set to watch movies : D )

Price: 1840$
That boils down to about 1600€ for me, shipping and import tax included.
I couldn't get anything near those specs for that price around here.

And the T4220 costs atleast 200-300 bucks more with SXGA+ and a 2.4ghz CPU.
All in all the R1E seems to be the best compromise when it comes to price/specs ratio imho.

I might be going to Germany in a few months. My father is coming over here in December, then going back in March, and I might go back with him to look at Art Galleries in Europe and stuff. I'll learn German pretty quick if I go over there, hehe.. I'm still thinking about it, but thought I'd mention it as it might be possible to meet you or something : )
Awesome, just let me know when you might be in town. : )

Max Challie

November 8th, 2007, 04:22 PM

I talked to HunterKiller_, and he said that TabletPCs are not made for artists, but for business people. He said they have no pressure sensitivity levels, and recommended the Cintiq.

This has raised the original question, and I'm wondering if I should just wait until TabletPCs are produced with the system specs of the Cintiq, as you said much earlier in this topic. The Cintiq does look a bit appealing, but I'd much rather have something of an electronic sketchbook that I can carry around with me, rather than reaching my arm out 100% of the time to draw on the screen which would feel less natural.

Is there some kind of petition going around for this?

It's a great read if you know the movie. The writing style is just great and unique.

Sounds good.

Sounds like a crazy time. xD

Ahaha, yup.

Currently the Asus R1E is my fav (http://www.excaliberpc.com/ASUS_R1E-B1_Intel_Core_2_Duo_T7700/90NGBA1132324EQL850T/partinfo-id-583032.html). Well, if they fixed the battery issue of the previous R1F line.
But they start shipping these days I heard, so reviews might not be far.

13.3" Widescreen 1280x800 WXGA
Core 2 Duo 2.4ghz
2GB RAM
160GB HDD
2-2.2kg
Modular bay battery included (BIG plus!)
TV-Out (I could hook it up to my tv set to watch movies : D )

Price: 1840$
That boils down to about 1600€ for me, shipping and import tax included.
I couldn't get anything near those specs for that price around here.

And the T4220 costs atleast 200-300 bucks more with SXGA+ and a 2.4ghz CPU.
All in all the R1E seems to be the best compromise when it comes to price/specs ratio imho.

Alright, I'll think about this too.

Awesome, just let me know when you might be in town. : )

Will do. : )

SgtDirtbag

November 9th, 2007, 04:51 AM

I talked to HunterKiller_, and he said that TabletPCs are not made for artists, but for business people.
He is right about that, sadly the main point of these things is handwriting recognition.
But Main Loop is a great example (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89032) for what an artist can do with these things.
He uses a Fujitsu T4215, the older version of the T4220 I recommended.
He said they have no pressure sensitivity levels, and recommended the Cintiq.
That is wrong. All models I recommended have 256 pressure levels.
There are some TabletPCs without pressure sensitivity, which act like a normal PDA, but those are frowned upon because even handwriting sucks on those models.

And a Cintiq is surely a phenomenal tool, but it doesn't exactly fit into the requirements of a portable wacom screen/tablet solution. xD
And you said yourself, you'd rather have something portable.

This has raised the original question, and I'm wondering if I should just wait until TabletPCs are produced with the system specs of the Cintiq, as you said much earlier in this topic. The Cintiq does look a bit appealing, but I'd much rather have something of an electronic sketchbook that I can carry around with me, rather than reaching my arm out 100% of the time to draw on the screen which would feel less natural.

Is there some kind of petition going around for this?
I'd also love to have a Cintiq TabletPC but as far as I know there is none on the horizon.
And personally, I don't want to wait any longer, i'm going to buy myself a TabletPC this winter and have fun with it.
I think we will have enough time to save money for atleast another, if not several other, TabletPCs until they finally catch up with the Cintiq specs.

Just look at the Cintiq Tablet that was posted on the forums a while ago.
12" @ 1280x800 for about 1300$!
And it's just a frikkin tablet, just the input device, nothing else.
You'd need to buy a regular laptop as well, to have a portable solution.
Oh, and that thing even needs its own AC adapter, so we can forget about that.

I don't even want to think about what an entire Cintiq TabletPC would cost, and I guess there is simply no market for such expensive products.

Sadly nobody really adjusts their marketing strategy to target us artists, that means not enough artists know that these things even exist, not enough artists buy them and that leads to us, being an unimport target group.

Maybe a petition would be a good first step in the right direction, but I have no idea how to organize such a thing.
We'd also need some big names on that list, not just the "small lights" like us. : /

Will do. : )Cool. : )

Max Challie

November 9th, 2007, 10:14 PM

He is right about that, sadly the main point of these things is handwriting recognition.
But Main Loop is a great example (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89032) for what an artist can do with these things.
He uses a Fujitsu T4215, the older version of the T4220 I recommended.

That's pretty impressive. His anatomy is so insane. Contrary to mine, haha. However, everything I saw in there was design stuff. I'd like to see some renders like the pieces over at FF, if you have such things done with a TabletPC. I just want to be sure that's possible.

Chris Mayernik also uses that model, and the art on his homepage looks really good. The T4220 (or whichever other model I buy) should be fine for me, I'm pretty sure. It would still be good to try it out though.

That is wrong. All models I recommended have 256 pressure levels.

I think he was referring to how they are in comparison to a machine with 1024 pressure levels; as a general judgment, rather than a specific/literal one.

There are some TabletPCs without pressure sensitivity, which act like a normal PDA, but those are frowned upon because even handwriting sucks on those models.

Why do developers bother with those?

And a Cintiq is surely a phenomenal tool, but it doesn't exactly fit into the requirements of a portable wacom screen/tablet solution. xD
And you said yourself, you'd rather have something portable.

Yeah, exactly.

I'd also love to have a Cintiq TabletPC but as far as I know there is none on the horizon.
And personally, I don't want to wait any longer, i'm going to buy myself a TabletPC this winter and have fun with it.
I think we will have enough time to save money for atleast another, if not several other, TabletPCs until they finally catch up with the Cintiq specs.

Ahaha, I think I'll just go for a TabletPC as well.

Just look at the Cintiq Tablet that was posted on the forums a while ago.
12" @ 1280x800 for about 1300$!
And it's just a frikkin tablet, just the input device, nothing else.
You'd need to buy a regular laptop as well, to have a portable solution.
Oh, and that thing even needs its own AC adapter, so we can forget about that.

Yup, portability again. For a lot of people, portability isn't important. But we go from this house we're renting to a house we own (I live with my mother), and I'd like to bring it up there to work with.

I don't even want to think about what an entire Cintiq TabletPC would cost, and I guess there is simply no market for such expensive products.

Yah, only a few rich people would really buy them. I guess it would cost a lot to manufacture things like that.

Sadly nobody really adjusts their marketing strategy to target us artists, that means not enough artists know that these things even exist, not enough artists buy them and that leads to us, being an unimport target group.

I think it kind of sucks too, but, what can ya do?

Maybe a petition would be a good first step in the right direction, but I have no idea how to organize such a thing.
We'd also need some big names on that list, not just the "small lights" like us. : /

They'd only look at people like Andrew Jones and Craig Mullins, right?

While I was on GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/), I saw someone who had a petition for Zone of the Enders 3 (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/zoe3) in their signature, which I promptly clicked on, and it lead me to Petitionspot (http://www.petitionspot.com/members/petitions/edit.php). We could create a petition for it over there, and put the link into our signatures. Buy our TabletPCs, and upgrade sometime in the future when something better comes along. It could work ; )

Cool : )

I just have to decide whether to stay for 3 or 6 months.

SgtDirtbag

November 29th, 2007, 06:44 PM

That's pretty impressive. His anatomy is so insane. Contrary to mine, haha. However, everything I saw in there was design stuff. I'd like to see some renders like the pieces over at FF, if you have such things done with a TabletPC. I just want to be sure that's possible.Sorry, don't have any examples like that at hand. : /

I think he was referring to how they are in comparison to a machine with 1024 pressure levels; as a general judgment, rather than a specific/literal one.Ah, I see.

Why do developers bother with those?Hehe, don't ask me. They are not even significantly cheaper than those with wacom technology.

They'd only look at people like Andrew Jones and Craig Mullins, right?

While I was on GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/), I saw someone who had a petition for Zone of the Enders 3 (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/zoe3) in their signature, which I promptly clicked on, and it lead me to Petitionspot (http://www.petitionspot.com/members/petitions/edit.php). We could create a petition for it over there, and put the link into our signatures. Buy our TabletPCs, and upgrade sometime in the future when something better comes along. It could work ; )I think it would take the pressure of big studios and high-profile individuals like those you've named to make a difference.
I doubt we'd get enough votes with just a signature link, but who knows...

I just have to decide whether to stay for 3 or 6 months.
:)

Btw, I finally placed my order. :D
X61T | SXGA+ 1400x1050 | C2D 1.6GHz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HDD | 8-cell battery | Mod. 776295U | (http://www.euclidcomputers.com/frameset.cgi?finditem+laptop+Lenovo+776295U+yes+0+ New+0)
Oh, and I'm going to vamp up the RAM to 3GB when it arrives. ;)

It'll be a while though before I can give you a first impression because I'm ordering from a US based shop and it'll take a while to transfer the money over there from good ol' Germany.

I finally went for the 12" X61T because I need the big SXGA+ resolution (and they finally fixed the bezel issue (http://lenovoblogs.com/connections/?p=6)).
I tested the lower WXGA (1280x800, available on R1F/E and Gateway C-140x) resolution on my CRT over the last few days and it just isn't enough for Flash CS3 and other panel intense applications. And the other SXGA+ TabletPC, the Fujitsu T4220 is just too expensive.

Also I just love that sleek sexy black business look. xD
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9779/x61tsgtdirtbaguu6.jpg

Jack the R

November 29th, 2007, 09:11 PM

I bought the Asus R1E based on this thread, and have been playing with it for the last few days. Here's what I think:

- Vista is a total dog P.O.S., but everyone already knows that. This is the first time I've used it though, and I'm shocked at what a resource hog it is, and how much it just plain screws up. If anyone can give me advice on how to speed this thing up, I'd appreciate it. My plan at the moment is to switch to a lightweight Linux distro.

- It might be nice to have a few programmable buttons available in tablet mode. Or it might not, because I'd probably always be hitting them by accident. I had to tape over the fingerprint scanner so it wouldn't always be trying to scan the palm of my hand.

- I think the tablet is inadequate for painting. I'm not a good painter to begin with, so take this with a grain of salt, but here's the reasoning behind my opinion. I assumed 256 levels of pressure sensitivity would be adequate, but it feels like they got down to 256 levels by chopping off the first 256 levels of a regular wacom tablet. I've tried adjusting the pen pressure sensitivity down, but I can't get that feather touch response of a regular wacom tablet.

I haven't fully explored this yet, since I got the tablet for line art and have spent most of my time with lines. I'd like to hear if others are having a similiar experience with their Tablets.

I'd also like to know if it's possible to get a different stylus with more buttons on it.

Overall I'm happy with the machine. I haven't run it on battery power enough to know if there's an issue with them or not. The biggest issue by far with this machine is Vista. It's always hitting the hard drive, and it's not easy to add a second hard drive for Photoshop (or GIMP in my case). Well, you can put one in the module bay, but you'd lose the 2nd battery while increasing energy drain on the 1st battery. Not ideal.

SgtDirtbag

November 30th, 2007, 07:05 PM

I bought the Asus R1E based on this thread, and have been playing with it for the last few days. Here's what I think:congrats on your purchase, glad you found some useful information among my rambling. : )

If anyone can give me advice on how to speed this thing up, I'd appreciate it.RAM is what first comes to my mind. 2GB are the absolute minimum, that's why I'll upgrade to 3GB once my TabletPC arrives.
More than 3GB is unnecessary unless you upgrade to Vista64, because Vista32 and XP can only address 3GB and some odd MBs, thanks to the "small" address space of 32bit operating systems.

There's also a page (just to name one among many) that deals with Vista tweaks: http://www.tweakvista.com/VistaPerformanceTweaks.aspx

I've tried adjusting the pen pressure sensitivity down, but I can't get that feather touch response of a regular wacom tablet.
Have you tried the enhanced TablePC driver (http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/driver.cfm) from wacom?

I'd also like to know if it's possible to get a different stylus with more buttons on it. Ask your question on forum.tabletpcreview.com, somebody over there should know. : )

The biggest issue by far with this machine is Vista.You could always setup your system as a DualBoot* one.
That way you can choose between XP and Vista whatever you feel like at the moment.

-------------------------
*= http://apcmag.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp
http://www.pronetworks.org/forum/about88231.html

Jack the R

November 30th, 2007, 11:15 PM

congrats on your purchase, glad you found some useful information among my rambling. : )

RAM is what first comes to my mind. 2GB are the absolute minimum, that's why I'll upgrade to 3GB once my TabletPC arrives.
More than 3GB is unnecessary unless you upgrade to Vista64,

AAARGGGH!! You mean this is still a 32 bit operating system?

When does this "Vista 64" come out?

I went with Excalibur's 3 gig upgrade. I wondered why they didn't have a 4 gig deal - now I know.

There's also a page (just to name one among many) that deals with Vista tweaks: http://www.tweakvista.com/VistaPerformanceTweaks.aspx

Thanks, I'll go through that.

Have you tried the enhanced TablePC driver (http://www.wacom.com/tabletpc/driver.cfm) from wacom?

I had it installed, but the problem seems to have gone away, for no reason I can explain. I think Vista is phuckin' with my head.

SgtDirtbag

December 1st, 2007, 04:19 AM

AAARGGGH!! You mean this is still a 32 bit operating system?
When does this "Vista 64" come out?
I went with Excalibur's 3 gig upgrade. I wondered why they didn't have a 4 gig deal - now I know.Yes, the regular Vista that is being sold with computers and Laptops right now is the 32bit version, because it is the most compatible one with old software.

Vista 64 is already out, here for example. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=vista+64&x=0&y=0)
If you want to buy it, I'd get the "system builders option OEM (http://www.driverheaven.net/windows-vista-forum/139352-windows-vista-system-builders-oem.html)" version.
That one was originally produced for computer resellers to bundle with their systems and comes without the microsoft hotline support (which is useless anyway) and it can only be installed on one computer (you can't transfer it to another one, when this one dies), but it is significantly cheaper than the regular customers version of Vista.

Thanks, I'll go through that.
Another thing, do you work with that system the way it came or did you make a clean install yet?
That means wiping the entire HDD and reinstalling the OS without all that useless bloatware it comes pre-installed with.

I had it installed, but the problem seems to have gone away, for no reason I can explain. I think Vista is phuckin' with my head.
You mean that it works now with that "feather touch response" that you wanted?

Jack the R

December 1st, 2007, 10:38 PM

Another thing, do you work with that system the way it came or did you make a clean install yet?
That means wiping the entire HDD and reinstalling the OS without all that useless bloatware it comes pre-installed with.

I'm working with what it came with.

How would I reinstall Vista without a cd to install it from (none was sent). Wouldn't the system recovery stuff just put all the bloatware back on?

You mean that it works now with that "feather touch response" that you wanted?

Yeah, it's good now.

SgtDirtbag

December 2nd, 2007, 05:40 AM

How would I reinstall Vista without a cd to install it from (none was sent).Any Vista DVD* would work, so you could either borror one from a friend, ask Asus if they can send you one or buy an Upgrade DVD from CompUSA (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&product_code=52591952&pfp=XSELLCUSTVW).

*= Every Vista DVD contains all Vista versions, your product key determines which one you can install.

Jack the R

December 3rd, 2007, 04:05 PM

$5? What am I buying? Vista can't be going for $5.

SgtDirtbag

December 3rd, 2007, 05:08 PM

$5? What am I buying? Vista can't be going for $5.This is just an installation DVD with all Vista versions on it, but it comes without a license.

This is exactly for people like you, who already have a license, but no installation DVD.

Jack the R

December 4th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Huh. I learned something new today ;)

What does it do, read the existing license off the computer? Or do I have a license number sitting around I don't know about?

SgtDirtbag

December 4th, 2007, 02:12 PM

Huh. I learned something new today ;)

What does it do, read the existing license off the computer? Or do I have a license number sitting around I don't know about?Yeah, there is a license number sitting around that you don't know about, otherwise your system would constantly bug you to activate it. ; )

Have a look at this thread, it shows the complete clean install process done on a Lenovo machine, it's very detailed and good to follow.
--> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=144783&highlight=clean+install

Step3 is where you extract your current license number from your system on to a USB drive for later use.

Max Challie

December 14th, 2007, 06:31 PM

Sorry, don't have any examples like that at hand. : /

Ah, alright.

Hehe, don't ask me. They are not even significantly cheaper than those with wacom technology.

XD

I think it would take the pressure of big studios and high-profile individuals like those you've named to make a difference.
I doubt we'd get enough votes with just a signature link, but who knows...

Yeah, let's get one out there and give it a go. I expect it'll take a few years, but let's start a topic here on the Lounge and over at TabletPC Review. I won't be able to start that for a little while, but I'll get around to it.

Btw, I finally placed my order. :D
X61T | SXGA+ 1400x1050 | C2D 1.6GHz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HDD | 8-cell battery | Mod. 776295U | (http://www.euclidcomputers.com/frameset.cgi?finditem+laptop+Lenovo+776295U+yes+0+ New+0)
Oh, and I'm going to vamp up the RAM to 3GB when it arrives. ;)

Awesome! Well done on the purchase. Would you mind me trying it out while I'm over there?

It'll be a while though before I can give you a first impression because I'm ordering from a US based shop and it'll take a while to transfer the money over there from good ol' Germany.

I finally went for the 12" X61T because I need the big SXGA+ resolution (and they finally fixed the bezel issue (http://lenovoblogs.com/connections/?p=6)).
I tested the lower WXGA (1280x800, available on R1F/E and Gateway C-140x) resolution on my CRT over the last few days and it just isn't enough for Flash CS3 and other panel intense applications. And the other SXGA+ TabletPC, the Fujitsu T4220 is just too expensive.

Ah, damn. Oh well, I still hope you enjoy it.

Also I just love that sleek sexy black business look. xD
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9779/x61tsgtdirtbaguu6.jpg

'Sexy black business look'? LOL!

I would like to try your TabletPC out while I'm over there, if you wouldn't mind. :)

SgtDirtbag

December 15th, 2007, 06:56 AM

Ah, damn. Oh well, I still hope you enjoy it.
I think that's a given. : D
About 3 months of research went into this decision and I'm absolutely certain I made the right one.
I received an estimated date of delivery yesterday, sais the machine will be here next friday.
Unless customs take their time with processing the package, then it might be here after the christmas holidays.

I made an animated gif to show you what I meant when I said, WXGA (and especially XGA) just aren't enough for panel intense applications, and that SXGA is the way to go, atleast for me.

One of my recent Flash CS3 projects:
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5395/xgawxgasxgarh9.gif

'Sexy black business look'? LOL!
Haha, yeah I know... ; )
I just don't like the current trend to make every piece of hardware round and shiny, like the Fujitsu T4220 for example.

I would like to try your TabletPC out while I'm over there, if you wouldn't mind. :)Absolutely no problem. :)

Big-Dave

December 16th, 2007, 03:23 PM

If you really need to install more RAM, there is the linux route as well. I've been running Ubuntu on my tabletPC with a dual boot in XP for any software I need that I can't use on linux (pretty much just games). If any problems come up (and admittedly, there are occasionally problems getting the tablet surface set up) there's plenty of guides on getting it all working

So yeah, if you want to have high amounts of RAM but don't like Vista, linux can actually do a decent job with a tabletPC (hell, Ubuntu's actually *easier* for me to set up on mine than XP)

SgtDirtbag

December 16th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Thank you for the advice Big-Dave. : )

But I think I'll just go back to XP if Vista doesn't perform to my liking.
I already spent a shitload of time tweaking XP to run as fast and smooth as possible, and it only takes an hour and a cup of coffee to setup. ;)

I'd love to play around with linux, but I don't have the time to learn a new OS, and XP is such an integral and convenient part of my current workflow, that it would take too much time for me to find a similar fast and effective workflow in linux.

Also I don't think the current Adobe Creative Suite 3 runs under linux, right?
And that's pretty much a deathblow for linux, because I want the TabletPC for the following tasks:

Work: 60%
Photoshop CS3, FlashCS3
Leisure: 40%
Gaming, Drawing and Painting in Photoshop and PainterIX, Z-Brush

And that's pretty much homeground for windows as far as I know.
There's this emulator "wine" I keep hearing about, but the TabletPC is going to struggle enough as is with natively running games released after 2006.

Also I wanna start getting into Z-Brush, and there's also no linux version available. : (

Btw, what kind of TabletPC do you have?

Big-Dave

December 17th, 2007, 10:09 AM

You do have a point there. While the switch over to Ubuntu is pretty clean and Gimp can actually make a good substitute for PS (the linux version is a hell of a lot better than the windows port), in the end it wouldn't do for a full port over, especially since it doesn't have a flash subsitute.

Wine is a pretty efficient piece of software, surprisingly. It can get Counter Strike Source running on a machine with the minimum requirements (so the emulator doesn't cause much of a slowdown). The problem is, it doesn't support the .net programming environment (since it's patented by Microsoft), so games requiring that don't run. This does leave a surprising range of software though, it just takes a bit of tweaking to get it done.

I'm running a Fujitsu-Seimens Lifebook T3010 with 1.2GB RAM (upgrading to 2 gig once I have the money), don't know off hand what the processor is though. It's one of the older models, but as long as you don't work with too many layers it's just fine for digital painting. Only problem I've had is that new batteries cost a bomb, and I really do need the extra life span I'd get from one.