The wacky world of Watts Atelier

[pandawhipped]

Sorry for the huge dump, but I was inspired today by MindCandyMan and figured I should start my own drawing progression thread. :cool:

In April of this year I started taking a class at Watts Atelier. I did the intro class for the first semester and am now in 5 classes (though thanks to work I'm hardly ever able to make it to the saturday ones) Hopefully this will give me an easier way to see my progression, and maybe get feedback from all y'all. Thanks :)

-Rye

These are the drawings (most are from life) I did in April in order of completion:


http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april01.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april02.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april03.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april04.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april05.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april06.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april07.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/daily/april08.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/conceptart/daily/april09.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/conceptart/daily/april10.jpg
still not sure how i got so lucky with this one!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/conceptart/daily/ja00.jpg

[pandawhipped]

May:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may01.jpg
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may02.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may03.jpg
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may04.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may05.jpg
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/may/may06.jpg

[pandawhipped]

June (slacker month):

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/june/ja01.jpg
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/june/ja03.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/june/ja02.jpg
teacher drew the ones with arrow pointing to 'em

[pandawhipped]

July (start of second semester):

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/july/ja04.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/july/ja06.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/july/ja07.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/july/ja08.jpg

[pandawhipped]

August so far:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja09.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja10.jpg
teacher helped a lot on this one

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja11.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja12.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja12B.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja13.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja14.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja15.jpg

[endregan]

These are all great. I love your style. clean and defined. you have a very skilled eye...good work!

[thomasaurus]

excellent studies, especially the last!

[sic1]

nice progression, keep them coming! :)

[golgari]

dhouh, these are pretty good. you seem to manage that plane-approach really well. what kind of pencils do you use to make these?

[pandawhipped]

thanks :)

golgari: I use Conte B Charcoal on Smooth Newsprint (18" by 24" i think)

[fredflickstone]

Ryan, are you in, or have you been in any of my classes? I dont recall seeing any of these images.

What ever anyone says, you have a knack for likenesses. You have a great knack for them. Take one of my classes, I will show you the way to strengthening these likenesses. Or bug me when I come through when your in class. I really like these likenesses.

One thing you can do that will help is control your tones with precision. The striations in the strokes make areas a bit confusing to read, and when you get your tones in clearer, you can then proceed to the next level of detail, the next smallest set of shapes. The finite anatomical nuances, or insertion points and origin points for muscles and tendons, and subcutaneous bones that clearly delineate key anatomical points that are important in making a figure or portrait feel properly structured.

The other item you may want to keep in control also is the overuse of an outline. Let the outline be light, and guide you into where your tones should fall, but those lines should all but dissappear into the tonal planes if you proceed properly to the next level of finish. That is, unless you are using them for style, and if so, know when and why you would use them, either for focal point, depth of field, or adding value to the edges so a fuller value range can be explored in the volumes of the figure.

Two last things, one; Silke, the black model, or one of the last portraits, feels like he has his face painted white. Remember, ethnicity brings new problems to solving tones, since you have to add them automatically before you start finding planes, otherwise the ethnicity is totally distorted. Be careful, give him back his black...heh

and watch the double and triple focal points. In other words, you have similar all over black in the eyes, nose, lips, etc. They are all fighting for attention. A picture should have one focus, and all other things support that one primary thing. Spot your blacks, dont render in black, otherwise you have more cleaning up to do than not, or more harmonizing than not. That is a better way of viewing it, its all about harmony. If one thing is calling too much attention, it is out of harmony. Stand very far back from your images and view them objectively, not as if you drew them, but as if you are seeing it for teh first time, and you are allowed to make comments, as harsh as they need to feel...


Thanks for sharing, I think more can be expressed this way, and remembered than a quick talk in class. But no less, bug me more, I would love to see these ratcheted up a few more notches...




Great work.


ROn:chug:

[KingPanda]

there can only be 1 panda T_T

[pandawhipped]

mlessard: haha i guess its one of those things where I may never feel as though I have done a great drawing. It may look awesome to me in class, but by the time I get home it starts to break down more and more, which is great cause it means i must be learning! Not only that, it is extremely humbling to sit next to the teachers here (and some of the students) and just watch them work. Makes my jaw drop everytime. Thanks for the words of encouragement though!

ron: thank you so much for the critique, i totally agree with you and have been trying to break my old habbits of drawing so linear but man its tough. I'm not in any of your classes, but I am in the head drawing class during your inking class, and the saturday figure drawing during the day, along with a few others. I have a few class to make up though, so I'll try to get into your saturday night class a few times.

"Be careful, give him back his black...heh"

hillarious
:chug:

KingPanda: I'm only whipped by them, not actually one, so you can still claim that title bro. Its all yours ;)

Here's a portrait I did tonight:
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja16.jpg

[AmadorL]

these are nice PANDA! really love'in LOTR one.
P.S. what school is t that you are going to is their a link you can give me?

A

[pandawhipped]

Amador:

Thanks :) I go to Watts Atelier (http://www.wattsatelier.com) in Encinitas. Its a really small school (only 2 classrooms), but the instruction there is top notch. I haven't been there long, but I've already learned so much. Definitely check it out if you have the time.

-Ryan

[pandawhipped]

Drawing for tonight 08-19-2003

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja17.jpg

[thomasaurus]

I am stunned by your portrait work, you can capture likeness very well!

[Jeff Gran]

Great drawings, all of them. Keep sharing for sure, this thread needs some stars.

[golgari]

i love it how you managed to capture the lighting on the last one...very moody.

[AmadorL]

keep'em comming Big Pimp'n .. Oh and thanks for the link. Its looks cool but it's like 1 1/2 hr drive for me I will just have to see. I wouldn’t mind taking Rons class.

thanks again
Amador

[MindCandyMan]

I'm glad I helped inspire you...because you inspired me so much just looking through these images. I am headed to an atelier myself in the next couple weeks...great stuff man definitely keep posting!

[cityworker]

great job bro. Ron is right, a knack for likeness. Keep postin.

[pandawhipped]

hey all thanks again :) You guys push me to keep goin. I missed my classes on saturday so i dont have much of an update today :mad:

amador: yeah that is a bit of a drive, but there are a few people who do it. I would say its worth it. Its about a 30 to 45 minute drive for me, and while it can be a pain, i'm always glad i made the effort to come.

Mind: sweet! which one are you going to?

city: hey not sure if you're in any of my classes, thanks for the compliment :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja18.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja20.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja21.jpg

[hoku]

Jules: Ok now, so tell me about the Atelier schools?

Vincent: So what do ya want to know?

Jules: Well, life's legal there right?

Vincent: Yeah, life's taught, but it ain't 100% life. I mean you can't walk into school, break out a pencil, and start drawing' away. You're only supposed to draw after learning Atelier methods, or in certain designated schools.

Jules: And those are Atelier schools?

Vincent: Yeah it breaks down to this: It's legal to learn it, it's legal to gesture it, and if you're a Atelier professional, its ok to teach it. It's illegal to expect Picasso the first week of it, which doesn't really matter, 'cause -- get a load of this. If your skill stops you, it's illegal for that skill to stagnate. Stagnating at Atelier is a right that your art skill doesn't have!

Jules: That did it man, I'm freakin goin' that is all there is to it.

Vincent: You'll dig it the most. But you what the funniest thing about Atelier is?

Jules: What?

Vincent: Just the differences. A lotta the same stuff we have here, other art places got there, just a little different.

Jules: Examples?

VincentL Well, in Atelier, you can learn Gouche in a studio. And I don't mean just black and white. They teach full spectrum like a traditional art studio. In Watts, you can learn caricature in class. Also you know what they call color design in art at Watt's?

Jules: They don't call it color design for art?

Vincent: No they got traditional system there, they wouldn't know what the hell color design for art is.

Jules: What'd they call it?

Vincent: Color theory with color wheels.

Jules: Color theory with color wheels. What'd they call sculpturing?

Vincent: Sculpture's a sculpture's, but they call it Conceptual Sculpture.

Jules: What do they call narrative art?

Vincent: I dunno, I didn't take that class yet. But you know what main medium they use at Atelier?

Jules: What?

Vincent: None.

Jules: None!? Damn!

Vincent: I've seen 'em use them all. And I don't mean a little for just one piece, they frickin use 'em all on different pieces and do great.

Jules: Wow!

adapated from Pulp Fiction . . . man I'm so happy about checkin out Watt's, you definitely showed improvement. I'm thinking it's a little tough, since Jeff said there's specific techniques, but hey. Perserverance right?

[pandawhipped]

o_O

wow you have a LOT of time on your hands ;) jk bud, HEY thats awesome you've decided to attend Watts. You'll love it!

heres some new stuff from today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja22.jpg

[pandawhipped]

Hey Ron thanks again for your help with this one, i appreciate it :)
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja23.jpg

[dzu]

Pandawhipped,

Were those drawings from the Friday night workshop and the Saturday life drawing classes? I think we're in the same class!
It's a trip to see the same model but froma different angle posted up here :D

Dzu

[endregan]

whoa great life drawings. :)

[pandawhipped]

dzu: yup they were, i don't think I know who you are though, the name doesn't sound familiar...so next week just wear one of those "Hi my name is" stickers, so i don't have to go asking around, cause i'm pretty lazy.

endegan: thanks bud! :)

here's a new one from my head drawing class tonight. This guy was a blast to draw. (i've been trying to draw REALLY light, so i bumped up the contrast in ShotoPhop so yall could see it)

-Ryan

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/august/ja24.jpg

ron helped me out with some of the values and rocked the eyes.

[cityworker]

panda - I would concentrate on finishing this portrait, it will be amazing if will put in the darks and complete it. good job bro, you're progression is showing that you're getting better and better with each new drawing, but defintely finsh this piece if you can.

[pandawhipped]

city: id like to finish it, time allowing. Right now im tyring my best to focus on vanderpoel studies when im not in class. But I'll see what i can do :) thanks!

new on for tonight (again sorry if you cant see it too well. Im still trying to start light, and since im not too fast yet, they're gonna be light for awhile.)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/september/s01.jpg

[pandawhipped]

Eric busted out the head on this guy for me:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/september/s02.jpg

hoku: just saw Pulp Fiction for the first time a few days ago. Thats frickin hillarious!

[MindCandyMan]

These are awesome panda...very very good. I looked through the whole thread...excellen stuff man very inspiring. Keep it up!

[endregan]

these are amazing!!

any suggestions to linework. mine is very hairy and unorganized somtimes. yours are so neat and great

[pandawhipped]

my teacher drew on this one tonight a little:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/september/s03.jpg

[cityworker]

looks good panda. Hey, did the new fall catalog come out yet?

[dzu]

The preliminary one sheet schedules are out and the Fall 2003 brochures have gone to print I think. I think they will be out this week/next week

Dzu

[cityworker]

thanks, are you going currently dzu?

[dzu]

Yes I am! Going there full time and loving every minute of it. Lots of good classes next semester so hopefully I'll see you guys there!

Dzu

[dns2k]

awesome work... i am going to pop my head in on monday and try to figure out which one is you. makes me want to post my stuff around here too. we should create a watts dump thread where all of us watts students post our stuff. it would be interesting for others to see how we all are progressing at watts. awesome pix...

-Otto


i know dzu has pix and i have some somewhere...
:chug:

[cityworker]

see you guys there in october

[StephenC]

wacky indeed, now i have to go sharpen my broken pencils. or at least tape them back together.

[hoku]

for my brochure, I'll prolly be up in Encinitas next week . . . swing by and grab one.

What type of tools do they recommend? Just so I can start collecting stuff.

As for alotta time on my hand I can write creatively pretty easily . . . as for my art . . . wheelll . . . anyways that's why I need to go to watts and soak up the knowledge

It's awesome watching you improve!

[dns2k]

conte 1710 B charcoal pencils and a pad of SMOOTH newsprint (18x24) and a pad of tracing paper then your good to go. A sanding pad and a single sided razor blade are always good to have when you need to sharpen your pencil.

-dns

[pandawhipped]

howdy guys. i have no idea who most of you are in real life...BUT glad to know you're going to watts and you're pumped about next semester. Im in 5 classes again..might sign up for one more if my stress levels can handle it.

heres the last 2 i did. the figure came out nice...the head looked nice in class, but when i got home i saw how bad it was. I have a lot of problems with these straight on drawings. the head always grows larger in one direction, usually to the left...oh well, ill get it eventually!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/september/s04.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/september/s05.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

That last portrait is fantastic! It has a specific point of focus and is beautifully simplified...great great work panda. How long did that last portrait take you?

[dns2k]

in the 3 hour classes it is usually 20 min of warm up quick sketch followed by 25 min of demo/instruction then the rest of the time is to the art.

-dns

[tinyhands]

My goodness the watts students are growing in numbers on this site. That kicks ass. Now if only i could post some stuff.... Otto, someone should start a thread so everyone could show there progress. Great idea.

[Kortez]

Absolutely brilliant stuff! Makes me really want to go to Watts :) Your head drawings look crazy :)

<silly question>
Anybody know how long the drive is from Long Beach to Encinitas, roughly? Is it the similar to a drive from Long Beach to Pasadena?
</silly question>

This question probably doesn't belong here, but this thread is full of Californians so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Great job, you really need to keep us posted :D

[I.was.ink]

This is some great life drawings you got goin here. Very observant.

I have observed one thing.... it seems that everyone from the Watts atelier draws the same. Not that it's a bad or anything, but it looks like the instrcutors all graduated from the same class?

I was just wondering...

Kortez: Long Beach to Encinitas= 1.5 hr. - 2 hrs. (thats to San Diego, I dont know how far encinitas actually is from SD)

Long Beach to Pasadena= .45 min. - 1.15 hrs.

[tinyhands]

i.was.ink, most of the instructors got the bulk of their training from jeff. Ron branched out for awhile and got alot more from other places. For a while people drew even more the same. But right now alot of the students are branching out and the classes are being taught differently, much in large part to Ron. I think if you saw more of the work thats on our walls at school you could see the variety.

[dns2k]

LB to encinitas shouldn't be more then an hour and a half. encinitas is north of SD off the 5 freeway.

-dns

[Kortez]

Ok, thanks alot guys, much appreciated :)

[pandawhipped]

sorry for the lack of updates recently, just havent had the time to shoot my muck anymore, but during the break ill do it for sure :)

mind: thanks bud :) like dns said usually we get about 2 hours, but this was an uninstructed class so I think it was about 2 and a half hours, not a huge difference, but it helps!

tinyhands: great idea, but just do what i did and start one for yourself, its a lot easier to see one persons progression, know what i mean?

Kortez: if i drive the way i normally do, i can get to long beach in about an hour or so from downtown SD (hour and a half tops). Encinitas is about a half hour drive for me, so really it shouldnt take longer than 45 minutes, you should totally come! People drive down from LA all the time. it really is worth it. jsut find a time when the freeways wont be slammed with traffic, cause that just blows.

I was ink: You know, i really thought the same thing for awhile. But now that I've been there and been able to watch all the instructors work first hand, i can easily point out who did what. They all have their own very distinct style. The process is basically the same, but the end result has huge differences.

[pandawhipped]

Alright, after my 3 month hiatus I'm back. Circumstances kept me from school last semester, but now I should be able to update regularly again. One day I hope to get a scanner so I can show my sketches as well, but photographing them just doesnt seem to work so well. Right now I'm enrolled in Head Drawing, Anatomical Sculpture, and Head/Figure/Quicksketch. I might enroll in one more class in a week so I can take advantage of the Friday night workshop again. Anyway, 'nuff chit chat, here are the first few drawings of the semester:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan00.jpg
2 hour head drawing

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan01.jpg
warmup and 2 ten minute sketches

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan02.jpg
20 minute sketch

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan03.jpg
2 ten minute sketches

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan04.jpg
20 minute sketch

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by I.was.ink

I have observed one thing.... it seems that everyone from the Watts atelier draws the same.

Not me. Mostly because at this stage, I really suck (nowhere near as good as the guy who created this thread, IMO) but also because (to a rather limited degree given my lack of experience) I've been making an effort to not copy the instructors so to-the-letter now that I've gotten more comfortable with the material.

But really, this sort of thing isn't uncommon. You'll find that everyone from all the major ateliers have a lot of inhereted traits passed along to one another. After all, as with most forms of art, the way you get good is by copying technique from people who are good until you're comfortable enough to stand out on your own or try something different.

[pandawhipped]

Here's the latest from tonight. This is a model that I drew previously a few months ago from pretty much the same angle. I think its on the 2nd page somewhere. Its cool to see how much of a difference there is between the 2:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan05.jpg

Now that I look at it I may have made her look a little too old...oh well

[tinyhands]

hey man, sorry i didn't get around to you again. Hopefully erik did though. It came out pretty nice. She does look a little aged though. Overall it has a nice feel. I think you'll make some good progress this semester

-tiny

[Metrini]

Wow absolutely inspiring work.

I definately need to find me a good Atelier class when I return to the US!

[dzu]

Hey Panda,

I think I sat right in front of you last night because I have the same exact angle! Keep up the good work.

[Revelation]

Ryan that picture is sweet man, very inspiring, lol. I love your style. Keep it up!

[mR.anGel]

the classical way of learing how to draw is definatly the best! thats how i learned! STOOPID CAST HEADS! they get on your nerves but its an awesome learning tool...keep it up

[pandawhipped]

Hey thanks for the encouragement guys, I wish I was taking more classes so I had more life drawings to post up.

Tinyhands: No one actually sat and drew with me, but thats ok, sometimes I like to have a drawing I can say is my own :) There were a lot of people in the class, its understandable

Mr. Angel: I've never drawn from a cast head. There's a cast drawing class at my school this semester but I'm not in it. I might try it one day.

[pandawhipped]

Here's my quicksketches from today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan06.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan07.jpg

[cityworker]

Nice job panda. Isn't smooth newsprint beautiful! Good quick sketch session.

[Dutch Badass]

Hi
this is my first post but i have been checking out this forum for a while
and...I....I just.......pfffff

It`s AWSOME

pandawhipped when I saw that Gandalf on the first page
I thought.....OH MY GOD !!!
It`s so real

All you people here really inspire me to draw more and more
and more and......MORE


Really SUPER ! :D

(if my english wasn`t perfect that`s because i`m not english ;) )

KEEP IT UP PEOPLE !!!! :chug:

[Skank]

this is an awsome thread guys
im planning on attending Watts next year, and this is gettin me excited about goin even more!!
im going to have to un-learn so many bad habits...i cant wait!!

keep posting =)

[pandawhipped]

cityworker: smooth rocks, but I think i bought a bad brand or something this last time. There's something funny about it.

Dutch: Wow, hey bud I'm glad I could inspire you to draw more! I know its helping me, but I actually need to be drawing even more than I already am.

Skank: You're gonna love it :cool:

New drawing for tonight. I was really struggling with the tones on this one, but hey that's what class is for, one more bad drawing out of the way :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan08.jpg

-Ryan

[pandawhipped]

weeeeeee

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan09.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan10.jpg

[DanSTC]

I was really off-balance in figure drawing yesterday, so I did a horrible job. For some reason I was really self-conscious and started making all sorts of newbie mistakes, reverting to about where I was 5 months ago.

Oh well, learning is all about ups and downs. At least I made some excellent progress last week.

Edit: Surprisingly, the figure I drew actually looks pretty good. However, I had quite a bit of help with it around the legs area, and my procedure was all mussed up from the get-go, so it's nowhere near what I'm capable of...I also was pawing at the paper a whole bunch with my eraser, which didn't help. I was just out of sorts, I guess. I'll just have to approach things a little more carefully next time.

At least I now have a clearer picture of what I need to work on so I won't flub quite as much whenever I do get out of sorts. I've been working on doing legs ever since yesterday.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan11.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan12.jpg

Jeff helped me a bit after class on this one.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan13.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan14.jpg

This is how far I am after 6 hours of work. Obviously I'm pretty slow :) Its a blast though. This is my first time doing sculpting, and I'm lovin it.

I hope its ok that I post these in here, I'm just putting up everything I do at Watts. If not, I'll move it to the sculpting section.

[dns2k]

your right off my angle from monday. good likeness i think we all had him look like he had a mullet instead of dreads.

-dns

[AdvancedLife]

nice sculpture. I cant wait to see the finished piece.

[pandawhipped]

you're right he does have the "business in the front, party in the back" look. I hoped no one would notice :D That was tough to get right

here's what I did today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan15.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan16.jpg

[winjer]

that sculpture looks cool. Im gonna take an anatomical sculpture class next semester so im pretty interested to see how yours turns out.Keep up the good works.

[pandawhipped]

not really happy with these at all. I think I was just having one of those off days. More bad drawings out of the way!

heres my first attempt at the figure:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan17.jpg

didn't like it, so i started over:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan18.jpg

decided I just didnt want to tackle the figure, so I changed seats and drew the ehad cause it was in a cool pose that we don't usually get for portait drawing:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan19.jpg

I can't figure out why I do this, maybe its just my eye isn't developed enough to notice it, but whenever I draw from a straight on perspective, the head ends up lopsided. Usually the left side becomes much larger than the right. I think it mayb have something to do with the fact that it was a very difficult pose for him to hold so his head tilt kept changing making it really tough...but I'm probably just making excuses and need more practice drawing from that angle.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan20.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/january/jan21.jpg

[DanSTC]

I did some good practice this week and was much more on the ball last night than I was last week. So I got some really good feedback and encouragement from Jeff Watts last night for my figure drawing. In fact, I think I'm going to see if I can get enrolled in the full six hours, since I feel I'm starting to hit a ceiling where I need that extra three hours to progress more.


Unfortunately, it seems that my cold has gotten worse...I hope I didn't give it to any of the people in figure drawing. :(

[pandawhipped]

DanSTC: Practice is always a big help. I can't wait to finish all my work so I can get back in the full swing of things again

Here's my portrait from last night. The more I look at it, the more its falling apart. But hey I guess thats good right? It almost looks like an abstract Picasso drawing with all the facial features shifted around in the wrong places. If you ever see me drawing something in class that looks like junk, tell me. I'll appreciate it haha :cool:


http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb01.jpg

[winjer]

I like that last one. I think the eyes are misaligned but that makes it cool. My focus has to keep shifting from one eye to the other.

[davi]

Personally i think your spending too much time on your outlines and not enough type modeling(shading) the figure in.

[pandawhipped]

Davi: I agree and disagree at the same time. I certainly do think I'm spending too much time on my outlines, but I think that's mostly because I need more practice. This semester I'm really trying to focus on getting the best layin I possibly can before going in with tone and rendering. Sometimes I'm able to get a good layin with the first 20-40 minutes, and then spend the rest of the class on filling in the tone, whereas sometimes (especially with figure drawing) I take so much time with the outline (lots of erasing and trying again) I don't get much of a chance to do anything else. Also I'm doing what my teachers tell me to do cause I figure they know better than I do.

Here's my sculpture for today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb02.jpg

forgot to put in his tail bone....WHOOPS

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb03.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb04.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb05.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb06.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb07.jpg

I was really happy with this one until I brought it home and took a picture of it. Everything wrong with it smacked me in the face. yeaahhhh...

[MindCandyMan]

ahhh...I know that feeling all too well!!! The camera can reveal a lot for some reason. It is still a great drawing though panda!

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb10.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb08.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb09.jpg

[DanSTC]

Well, I'm starting to gain a real grasp of anatomy and rhythym. My heads are starting to look pretty good too. Trouble is, now my hand dexterity needs some more training as my callligraphy sucks, since I haven't been practicing with the pad & pencil at home. (Though I have been practicing regularly in my sketchbook.)

I'm going to be taking Jeff's advice to heart this week and see if I can start doing practice and studies on my sketchpad.

In fact, I think I'll go do that right now before I go to bed...

Update: Pretty good hour-and-a-half-or-so practice session just now. I've discovered that as part of doing ovals/shading/etc., if I practice Japanese Hiragana or Kanji letters (I'm taking elementary Japanese at college this semester) it really helps strengthen my hand-eye coord and calligraphic dexterity. So that'll be something to add to my new little training regimen.

[pandawhipped]

DanSTC: Cool man! Keep it up :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb11.jpg
Jeff helped make that head look all nice for me.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb12.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb13.jpg

[pandawhipped]

I guess since this is a progress thread, I'll go ahead and post the stuff I'm doing outside of class as well. Today I started my studies now that I'm all caught up with work, and a little more organized. I'm trying to draw no less than 4 hours a day. I'm sure at times i'll miss it by a few hours, but that's what I'm shootin' for. :chug:

Vanderpoel studies:
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb14.jpg

and a Rockwell study I started, but am most likely going to do from the beginning again:
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb15.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb16.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb17.jpg
This one was super hard. I'm not really happy with it, but after a solid 2 hours I thought it was about time to put it to rest.

[pandawhipped]

Vanderpoel studies (updated after i drew more on the page)
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb18.jpg

[tinyhands]

Man, you are crankin out the studies. Great to see that. Keep it up.

[Schlo-mo]

I <3 the eye studies, nice stuff man.

[pandawhipped]

Hey thanks guys! Yeah eyes are probably my favorite thing to draw. There's just so much character in them.

Tiny: where are YOUR studies? C'mon man, lets see 'em I know they blow the doors off mine.

More Vanderpoel:
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb19.jpg

[RETEP]

hey man, great stuff!!!
i have just started working with charcoal recently, and i was wondering how you get such thin and smooth lines with a charcoal stick? do you use a blender often?

[pandawhipped]

Dingoegret: Thanks! Hmmm what kind of charcoal are you using? I use conte 1710 B, and its smooth as butter. There's really no need for a blender other than the occasional finger smudging, atleast none that I've seen. There's a thread here somewhere explaining how to sharpen the charcoal to use it more as paintbrush than a pencil. That should help if you arent already doing that.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb20.jpg

[Ariel]

panda, how many classes (which ones, btw) are you currently attending at Watts? Your progress is very evident, keep posting.

[pandawhipped]

Ariel: This is my second semester taking a full load at 5 classes. I'm pretty much enrolled in just the core drawing classes, those being Head drawing, Figure drawing, and Head/Figure/Quicksketch, as well as an uninstructed figure drawing workshop. I'm also enrolled in anatomical sculpture which spans over two semesters.

Here's my head drawing from today. Ron really made this one sing, and Mark helped me out as well.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb21.jpg

[tinyhands]

that was a good drawing today man. It was probably real easy for ron to go on top of it cause you had a good start. Oh, i'm gonna try and maybe get some stuff up as soon as i get a good body of work to post. But until then....

-tiny

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb22.jpg

believe it or not thats 4 hours of drawing...i was movin SUPER slow. Still so far so good, its only been 4 days but everyday I've done right around 4 hours of drawing not including class time. :)

[pandawhipped]

started my Rockwell study again today. I'm much happier with this one so far and plan on finishing it

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb23.jpg

and on my sculpture today I added the clavicles and the scapulas...and an eye patch, but you cant really see it.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb24.jpg

[Pierre]

I like your progress so far, panda :)

The sculpture your working on ... I was wondering it was clay that you are working with or is it another material? What dimensions has the sculpture?

Pierre

[pandawhipped]

Hey Pierre, I'm using Le Beau Touche oil based clay. When you heat it up in the microwave its really soft but when it cools it gets to be pretty firm. Its a really good medium, I like it a lot, but then this is the first time Ive sculpted, so I don't really know much about the quality of it compared to other clays. The sculpture withou the arms stands about 29 inches tall.

Portrait I did from a paused dvd, anyone know who it is?

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb26.jpg

And my figure drawing from tonight...I think I made it shrink gradually as it went down to the right. Jeff drew the feet on it:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb25.jpg

[Ariel]

It kinda looks like Alan Rickman in Robin Hood.

How long did it take (and what size)?

[LightBrownboy]

Good stuff man, your peices are coming along nicely, you can see a lot of improvement in your lay-ins and proportions.

Keep going brotha, you captured alan rickman's likeness really well, my only thing is the heavy values in the hair and shoulder gear take your eye away from the focus of your piece.

I understand wat you were trying to do for composition, so keep pushing it. Just start to be mindful of your values. Right now it feels like the rest of the values in the face need to be bumped up a couple nothches to match the intensity in the hair.

Hope this helps!

-Pat

P.S. If you are gonna go back to this piece, take another look at his ear, placement feels off a little bit.

[endregan]

sweet. your portrait and figures are so well done. how long have you been training in art for?

these look great. they have that atelier trained look :)

[pandawhipped]

Ariel: Awesome glad you could tell who it is :) It took about an hour and a half, and its on 18x24 paper, so around that size.

Lightbrownboy: Thanks man! Yeah I have a really hard time with not letting black hair take center stage in my drawings, but thanks for the tips, i'll try to work on that next time around. And yeah his ear does seem low but I double checked and it was pretty low down on his head. Maybe he had some sort of a tilt that I was unable to capture.

Endegran: Thanks :) I've been training at Watts since April of last year, so almost a full year now. This is my second full time semester.

lots of pretty dumb mistakes in these Vanderpoel studies, but oh well :bash:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb27.jpg

[endregan]

Vanderpoel seems great!

where did you find all his sketches?!

I have also heard about vilppu. geez those guys are rare or what :)

your studies are solid, yet soft. its weird to describe.

Geez you have learnt a lot in a year. Please tell me you have previous training :)

great update

[pandawhipped]

Hey Endegran, Vanderpoel is great for studying the facial features. I'm not too sure about his figure drawings though, just because I haven't taken the time to look at them yet. You can find all these drawings in his book The Human Figure (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486204324/qid=1077606608//ref=pd_ka_1/002-8264074-0793654?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) , and its a really good deal at 7 bucks. Vilpu, I know you can find online, or you can go take a class I think he teaches in LA at an atelier there along with Kevin Chen, but I'm not sure.

I haven't had any real formal training previous to this aside from a family friend who is now a children's book illustrator who taught me the basics of drawing when I was about 9. I've pretty much been drawing ever since then, but it wasn't until recently that I got serious about it, and started studying instead of just drawing anime characters all the time.

Here's the head drawing for tonight:



http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb28.jpg

[PeggyChung]

hey pandawhipped, nice stuff, i only stumbled upon this thread a few days ago. i am really amazed on the eyes, that makes me want to concentrate more on eyes then just shading the pupil all in -.-''

btw, do you have any drawings from before you started going to watts? maybe like a few months before? that'd be great to see

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb29.jpg

LadyLioness: Never hurts to practice some eyes :) go do it now! Hmmmmm I do have some drawings from before school, I'll have to look for one though, they are all burried somewhere

[RETEP]

oooooo Amelie:D great movie!!!
i use 957 A-BP soft assorted chacoal made by Generals, i dont know if thats the type or what (major noob to charcoal:rolleyes: ). i didnt know about sharpening the charcoal, i will look around for the thread. great updates, and your sculpture is lookin awsome.

[pandawhipped]

quick one for today, about an hour and half or so

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb30.jpg

dingoegret: not too sure about other charcoals out there. I've really only used the contes so far. A lot of people sing the praises of Ritmo, but I guess they aren't being made anymore

[pandawhipped]

Mark drew on this one at the end of class (all the darker tone)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb31.jpg

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb32.jpg

not sure it really ended up looking like ol' aragorn.

[LightBrownboy]

DUnno if you are gonna go back to this one, I know you are doing a long study but also try to take some of these to more of a finish. Cross reference wat you have been learning from your study of a master and implement into this long studies from photos.

Its good to get in practice time and loosen up, but if you keep moving on without finding and refining errors in the drawing it might hurt your drawing in the long run. I'd say go back and just analyze the photo and your drawing for like 10 minutes without drawing at all. Just observing. Look at the shapes you used and wat you can see in the photo. I think the area you might have lost the likeness is in the nose and muzzle area.

Again, great improvement in your work, keep going at it. Hope these comments help.

-pat

[pandawhipped]

Pat, thanks for the help man, I appreciate it. I see what your saying about taking time to analyze my drawings, and I'll start doing that. I usually look at it for awhile after I'm done drawing it, but without the reference, and since I'm so lazy I adjust stuff in photoshop to see if I can fix it, instead of trying to redraw it on my piece. You go to Watts right? I don't think I've met you yet right? anyway thanks again :)

Here's my stuff from the workshop last night:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb33.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb34.jpg

I think I went way to dark on that shadow

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb35.jpg

[LightBrownboy]

Good stuff, simple forms is a good place to start and you are getting that. On the figure a few places to evaluate at home is your understanding of where the major connections are in the body. I'm doing that myself at home right now so that's wat popped out to me right away. Specifically at the elbow and knee points. Start a little at a time, I know you are looking at simple shapes right now but its good to understand wats under those simple shapes so you can later inject them in to make those connections feel that interlock that they have.

I like the head drawing, full frontal is the most difficult i think because you have to get all the proportions just right. The drawing is sound, here's a coulpe things that stuck out.

http://www.geocities.com/patballesteros78/feb35.txt

The eye on the right feel off its axis line, its riding a little high right now.

The nose, I know it had shadow to it but right now the way it is indicated(or not indicated) makes it feel like it is sliding off.

The mouth, i know it is softer up there because of the light or that may have been how the reference was, but this is where you as the artist come in, i would say connect the shadow pattern under the bridge of his nose to the shadow on his mouth it will strenghten that area all together and make your soft edges and hard edges read a little more in that area. Remember, at times make the reference work for you, no one else has seen it so you can take liberties as long as they pictorially make sense.

These are all little things and some concepts that you don't have to go into yet. I just wanted you to see these and start getting them in your head so you can start developing that eye that we are all trying to get.

Hope this helps. I'm in head drawing Monday nights, im the brown, skinny, tall dude with spiky hair and glasses. I think I know who you are so hopefully we can meet formally. Take it easy, again very aspiring to see your progress.

best,
patrick

[pandawhipped]

Pat, dude you ROCK, thanks for takin the time to critique this stuff for me. Front view has always been the hardest for me as I've said previously in this thread, and I've really tried to correct my most common errors with it. I think I've started to get it so that my heads don't look completely lopsided anymore, but this one was really hard because of the slight tilt he had going on, which is why his eyes aren't lined up (and probably because of asymmetry in his face). It does make sense though to correct it in my drawing since most people will see it as a mistake rather than what the guy actually looked like, so i'll try to work on that. Maybe I'll try doing this same drawing again in a week or so to see i I can improve upon it.

figure drawing from last night (Jeff fixed up the tone on the head):

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/feb2004/feb36.jpg

[LightBrownboy]

Yea, slight tilts are the worst thing known to man, i think what threw it off for me is my tendency to straighten up things and also it feels that as you moved down the features it startened to slowly straighten up in the nose then again in the mouth.

Great life drawing, one thing i learned especially when drawing models with a dark complexion is to just drop a tone right away on the page so you establish skin complexion and it will help your values be more relative to the model.
I can;t tell if you did that from the image, if you did cool, if not just a tip that i hope helps.

-pat

[talmir]

I really like your last pic.. Keep it up.. you're professional quality.

[pandawhipped]

LBB: good tip on drawing the tone in right away, ill give that a shot next time.

Icey and Talmir: Wow thanks so much, im flattered :D

Everytime I draw her, she looks like a different person. Maybe one day I'll nail her type. I definitely think its better than my last attempt.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040301a.jpg

[Ariel]

very nice! :)
I like the soft quality of the nose, eyes and mouth areas.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040302b.jpg

I started getting really impatient with Vanderpoel so I rushed the nose, and then did this Sargent study. It was about 2 hours or so. I could probably take longer on it, but I'm just not in the mood today

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040302a.jpg

[pandawhipped]

Icey: I certainly wouldnt mind if you used them to study, but I think you'd be better off studying the artists I drew from (John Vanderpoel, and John Sargent) cause I'm really not good enough to study from, you might end up developing my bad habbits or something crazy.

[Ariel]

great studies.. are you using only one type of Conte Pencil for these? Maybe B/2B?

BTW, do you make photocopies before copying drawings?

[pandawhipped]

Ariel: Im using conte 1710 B, and for the copys i just copy it straight out of a book. The Vanderpoel one is easy cause its so small, but for bigger books, I kinda just lay them in my lap, leaning against my drawing pad.

Icey: I'll be 22 tomorrow :beer: All of the drawings here are done with charcoal. I'm modest because I sit next to people in class who absolutely blow me away. Makes me work harder to get as good as them. :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040304a.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040304b.jpg

[DanSTC]

Ugh. The studying I have to do for my college courses is really detracting from my art studying. Even worse, despite that I spent a lot of time studying art last week, I found that I couldn't focus at all during class today and just got progressively more frustrated with myself towards the end.

Fortunately, spring break is coming up, so I'll be able to relax and devote more time to art. Also, I won't be taking any college courses over the summer, so I'll be able to concentrate fully on art then.

For the time being, I'll just have to slug it out as best I can. If anyone has any suggestions for stuff I could study, I'm all ears.


Meh...Hopefully I'll do better during tomorrow's figure drawing class. To that end, I think I'll do some figure lay-in studies right now.

[DanSTC]

Well, I'm happy to say that I did much better today. I got a pretty solid lay-in on an extremely difficult angle on the pose, managed to get a really nice-looking head, and did a few other things that I really liked.

For training this next week, I think I'm going to work on some arms/legs and feet/hands in addition to the figure/head stuff I did last week.

Also, I think I'm going to see if I can get an MP3 player headset to bring to class, since I've found that listening to some of my favorite music really helps me keep focus.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040306a.jpg

^ Jeff drew in all the darker tones on that one ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040308a.jpg

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040308b.jpg

^ Eric drew on this one ^

DanSTC: Good to know you're getting some practice time in. Just do tons and tons of Vanderpoel (if youre still looking for suggestions)

Icey: You're too kind, thank you. Been checking out your thread too, sorry I havent commented yet, I will, just been so busy, haven't even been updating this thing the past few days.

[tomi]

i really really dig all of these. im way too bad to give you crits on 'em, this allready brings me to my 2 questions you sure can easily answer.

1. how the hell do you manage to do such drawings without using an eraser at all. ive got the conté's too and erasing just makes things worse with this medium. so do you lay in any light pencil lines first and just then move on to the charcoal or is it just the practice you already have with them?

2. when your sketching in lets say a sketchbook, do you also hold the conte in that "toothbrush"-style or does it depend on the angle your holding your sketchbook at? because, its very uncomfortable if you have the book in your lap and try to sketch anything and when your outside theres most of the time nothing to hold it for you.

im just curious. doin' a portrait course myself there really is a difference between the works done here and at watt's tho the work seems a bit too similar to the other students works ive seen, ah dunno, they still are great :)

anyway, thx for showing us, i'll be watching this thread
bye
t.

[pandawhipped]

Tomi: thanks!

I actually do use an eraser, I just never mention it as a tool I use cause I figured y'all would just assume I do. I use the standard grey stretchy eraser for these, and not only use it to correct any mistakes, but I use it as my "white paint" to bring out highlights. I start REALLY lightly with the conte (1710 B), so that if I make any major mistakes with my lay-in I can erase it, even the entire thing if neccessary. Try to draw/shade on the downstroke, as well erase on the downstroke as often as you can. It will make it much easier for you. What kind of paper are you using? That could make a difference in the erasing as well. Try using smooth newsprint if you aren't already.

I haven't been doing much sketchbook work lately, but when I do I use a ball point pen. I think a really good one to use is Zebra. You can get these at Office Depot if you have one in your area, otheriwse just use the cheap Bic pens. I typically sketch the same way I write, it just feels better when using a pen. If I were using the Contes in my sketchbook i'm sure I would default to the way I normally hold them just for familiarity's sake.

Good luck in your portrait class, you'll learn a ton if you stick with it :)

Oh and as for the students work all looking similar, I agree there are some similar qualities, but that's mostly because we are all learning from the same teachers and picking up their styles just from watching them so much. I'm sure as time goes by we'll all start to get our own voices in our work.

[Vanderwolff]

I have just gone through your thread, and what a humbling experience it has been. Your obvious talent and sound technical skills have put my own work in, well, a more somber perspective.

Excellent work.

[pandawhipped]

Vanderwolf: Thanks dude, hey I looked through your site and saw some really good work in there. Are those mostly studies or are the completely original? Either way they are impressive. Keep it up!

2 hour figure for today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040311a.jpg

[Vanderwolff]

Originally posted by pandawhipped
Vanderwolf: Thanks dude, hey I looked through your site and saw some really good work in there. Are those mostly studies or are the completely original? Either way they are impressive. Keep it up!

2 hour figure for today:

http://64.186.229.252/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040311a.jpg

Thanks, man...they're actually 90% original/10% reference.. .and more than a little dated. Looking at your work makes me think that it's time to post some more formal work...so I'm going to be haunting these boards more, checking out your excellent work, along with Ron Lemen's and Kevin Chen's superb work, and drawing a lot of figurework.
Thanks for sharing your daily studies---they really do inspire.

[Vanderwolff]

BTW---and sorry if this was covered already in another post---what is your career track? Are you going to do fine art portraiture exclusively, movie poster art, game conceptuals or other? Obviously, you'd excel at any or all of them, but I'm just curous. Or are you going to teach? Thanks.

[Giottoface]

in answer to your question, right when page 5 opened, i said, whoa! aragorn!

really good stuff, and inspiring

[DanSTC]

Did really well today in figure quicksketch. Kinda flopped here and there, but overall, I did a great job. I'm getting a really great sense of rhythym in poses.

[Ben Mauro]

im very interested in attending watts, but i am enrolled at another institution, is it possible to go to watts during their summer sessions? or do you have to go one right after another. thanks

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040313a.jpg

^ Jeff drew on top of the head and down into the neck ^

Icey: theres really not much detail missing. Sometimes I just draw really lightly, but I try to adjust them in shotophop to look like the actual drawing since the flash messes them up

Vanderwolff: You know, I'm really not sure anymore. When I first came to school I really wanted to get into comic books since I used to draw them all the time as a kid, and I've missed doing that, then I thought about children's book illustration, and now i'm starting to consider the possibility of gallery work. Its YEARS off, but who knows? :)

Giottoface: haha thanks! :)

DanSTC: Good! Its always a good ego boost when you do well in class

Ben Mauro: yeah you can go whenever you want, its totally cool. Once the summer semester is over you can go back to whatever school you are attending :chug:

[Ben Mauro]

do they have a fall semester as well? say from late june to september? because as it is now i get out of school around april 20-25, which is a couple weeks after the classes start for the summer semester, and i think it would look bad if i missed the first few classes, or would they be ok with somthing like that?

another thing i wanted to know is about housing, is there somwhere in the area close by where you can rent out apartments for the 10 weeks? or better yet, someway to room with someone already in the area? that would really be helpful.

thanks

[pandawhipped]

It should be fine if you come late, just give Jeff Watts a call, the number is on the site, and talk to him about your situation, he might be willing to work something out (like letting you take a few make up classes). I think that happens often during the summer courses, either people start late, or they leave late because of other schools they are attending.

Housing is a little more difficult. I recommend looking at craigslist.com to find a room you can rent for a few months. You might have to look hard, and will probably need a deposit of some sort to score a room. It can be pretty tough to find that in san diego just cause its getting pretty crowded. I wish I could help you out but my apartment is all full, and a good 40 minutes from the school anyway :/ Definitely try to find something though, who knows you might love the school so much you'll decide to stay :cool:

[kimman]

You're drawing remind me of master loomis , u're one of the few who actually manage to achieved that level... big up your'self.

You're a true artist , really admire you're perseverance.
U have a very artistic eye for detail...

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040315a.jpg

not happy with this one at all. i made her look like an alien or something. oh well, one more bad one out of the way!!!

[MindCandyMan]

not happy with this one at all. i made her look like an alien or something. oh well, one more bad one out of the way!!!


Dude...I don't know how you even manage to finish a portrait in 2 hours! That's an amazing feat in and of itself that's for sure...portraits are so hard...it's the equivalent of doing brain surgery for the artist I think hehe...keep it up man your work is looking good! Glad to see you don't get down on yourself about one drawing that you don't like.

[endregan]

You make lips look easy.

I try to do lips, they are a weakness of mine. Facials features are not the easiest I agree with Jon on that one.

You are doing great!

[fredflickstone]

Great work this semester, you have grown a lot. Now, you need to grow through a hard stint of learning. What you learn will be slight but of absolute importance. The things you need to pay attention to now will also include cerebral ideas, of how things feel, how they sit in space, even though we draw flat, that is on a flat surface. You are doing well, now think of the big leap into the next level.

I don’t know your commitment to your art, what you want to do, etc. And that would help me to find what it is you need next, besides the visual obvious. Let me know and we can work on a path to lay out that will speed up your learning.

The visual obvious:

You still need to feel for the side and the front. This requires a strong knowledge of perspective drawing, and the figure is no exception. Make sure you philosophically understand the concept of the proportions of the human form from profile and from the front. Then learn to see them in perspective so you can relate them to each other when they are drawn at the most often seen ¾ or close to ¾ view.

Your features in your faces are well done but too pasted on. They feel independent from the head, not blended enough. This requires the thought of the not so obvious, or the cerebral. Now you must think of the features as details on a bigger mass instead of independent forms. They have to be dusted onto the head, details, rather than drawn on one at a time. That is what I have been demoing as of late, the last week when we just let go, as demos that is.

It is going to be hard to see this form of seeing and thinking, but the sooner you can conceptualize this thought, the sooner your images will loosen up. I don’t see features anymore, I see shapes that balance other shapes. The most important things I am looking for; left to right page balance, the big shapes and their relative values, a proper tonal palette to control the eye, and the drawing so I don’t go value crazy. The essence of the model, not an academic treatment to the image, a cerebral concept, but one I am looking for more and more as I teach more, and find academics too basic for me, and too easy to reach for. I am looking for something bigger and harder to talk about, because it cant be described entirely in words.

That is my level of thinking, but it encompasses all the academics I have assimilated throughout the years of training. I believe I am on a correct path, but we will see.
Where you are; look for the big shapes, and relate their big values, not the light and shadow to each other so the big composition is laid in at the foundation. Then look for light and dark over the forms to find a basic dimension. Then dust in the features as details on big spheres and cylinders. That is the goal. Do that and your pictures will progress like mad. Do many studies from photos, well lit photos. Ones that have reflective light in the shadows, not the deep black and white high contrast images…


Great work this semester, I hope you stick it out and make a great success for yourself. You have the abilities, I hope you have the heart and the drive to endure the mileage.

Lata


Ron

[pandawhipped]

MCM: thanks bro, it does get to me a lot, but in a good way I hope. Everytime I do a drawing that I don't like it pushes me to work harder and harder to get a better one next time.

Endegran: just keep doing as many studies as you can, especially vanderpoel's lips, those are great.

Icey: I dont have a tutorial for them, I pretty much just copy from other artists to see how they solve it. Its hardest angle for me to draw the eyes from, i always have to slow down when i get to that point.

Ron: Hey thanks for your help, and for teaching all those classes. I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for you *sniff...tear drop* seriously though, thanks, im gonna have to get you to further explain what you are talking about. I think I have a pretty good idea based on how ive been seeing you and Mark draw lately, but I'm not exactly sure that's what youre reffering to.

My figure for today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040318a.jpg

Had to draw the robe in 20 minutes, and just ran out of time. I thinkt he top left part looks pretty good, but then the other side looks like some wierd skin disease.

been feeling extremely exhausted the past week or so, thats why i dont really have any extra studies. i need to get crackin again as soon as I feel better

[pandawhipped]

YAY good drawing today, i love it when that happens. I think her left foot is too small, but its stil better than any of my other ones so far. This was about 2 hours 30 minutes

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040319a.jpg

[Smurf]

WOW, you make everthing look so real.

[pandawhipped]

smurf: thanks :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040320a.jpg

^ Jeff drew on the head, thats why its so dark compared to the rest. I'd love to get my values to that level, but I always run out of time. I might try doing a 6 hour drawing next semester once or twice if I get the chance.

[brokencow]

how come everyone over there draws the same. everyones drawings look like everyone elses.

[pandawhipped]

brokencow: This has already been asked a bunch of times...but, the reason a lot of people draw somewhat similar, is because we are all being taught drawing by the same 3 or 4 teachers, but they each have their own very distinct style of drawing. There are atleast 50 drawings on the walls at school, and its pretty obvious who drew what without looking at the signatures. The "style" (if you could even call it that) of drawing at Watts is one that has essentially been handed down from masters in the past and has proved time and time again to be a solid way to learn the fundamentals of drawing before breaking off into your own style.

[drdarrow]

Originally posted by brokencow how come everyone over there draws the same. everyones drawings look like everyone elses.

That's like saying everyone in the Romantic Period painted the same. If you can't see the differences, you need to be around good drawing more.

When I was in second grade, we all learned cursive the same way. Our MASTERS taught us the right way.

Once we learned that, we each developed our own style. Today, none of us write the same way, but we all had to master the skills matching a MASTER.

Same goes for Watts Atelier. It is to their credit that their students draw so similarly. That means the principles they are teaching are being taught well.

Not one student there has a chance of painting like any of the others in a few years. They will develop their own calligraphy, and they will paint wonderfully.

IMHO, Due to Jeff Watts' commitment to sharpening fundemental skills, his school will arguably produce more true draughtsmen and painters than any other school on the west coast.

BTW, how come all Anime looks alike?

[pandawhipped]

^ yeah thats what i meant to say...*blush*

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by brokencow
how come everyone over there draws the same. everyones drawings look like everyone elses.

Mine don't. But I'm an unusual case...my trouble is that I'm way too loose and have trouble tightening up, whereas a lot of people are very tight and have trouble getting loose. Also, I'm not nearly as practiced as the guys in this thread.

I imagine mine will eventually look very close to the style that the instructors teach, but I will deviate into my own realm later on down the road when I've become much more skilled and can make more advanced stylistic decisions on my own.

drdarrow and pandawhipped pretty much summed up why people here tend to have similar approaches...it's because they're learning. Part of learning is learning to do a fundamental basic approach so the teachers can communicate those fundamentals to the students. After we've mastered them, we can easily go off and do our own thing.

[dns2k]

awesome stuff panda this was a good semester...

as for us drawing the same... i would have no problem drawing like ron lemen... :P

lol

great thread... post some of the stuff you do over the break.


-dns

[pandawhipped]

wish I had done some drawing over the break, but I was just feeling burned out, and had a ton of work piling up. However, I'm back in school :) so now I'll have updates 3 or 4 times a week.

Drawing for tonight:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040416.jpg

[Ben Mauro]

very nice drawing!

dont worry about not drawing over break, i experienced the same thing between semesters, sometimes its good to take a break, clear your head. but in my case i had overworked myself during the previous semester and got sick for the whole break. i was getting around 2 hours of sleep per day for about 3-4 months, i dont recomend doing that anytime soon.

sorry for the ramble, hope everything goes well this semester at the atelier, hopefully i'll be able to come out next summer, it seems great. have fun!

[pandawhipped]

Ben: Thanks, yeah I could never live off 2 hours of sleep. I tend to get 12 a day :) I guess we're on opposite ends of the spectrum there. Try to come out if you can, you'll love it!

Icey: thanks! Its great to be back in school, and posting here again

Tonight we drew 5 minute comps to practice our layouts, and then did 3 of the 4 in 20 minute sessions. One of them my teacher drew on the majority of the time, so its really not my drawing, so I won't post it and make people think I suddenly became incredible.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040417a.jpg

^These are the 4 compositions, which is something I struggle with a LOT

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040417b.jpg

^:o this one is pretty bad

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040417c.jpg

^I'm a little happier with how this one turned out

[MindCandyMan]

wish I had done some drawing over the break, but I was just feeling burned out, and had a ton of work piling up.

I know exactly what you mean...sneaks up on ya doesn't it. Keep pushing though man...your drawings have moved up a considerable notch lately...beautiful stuff man!

[pandawhipped]

MCM: thanks for the encouragment :)

I'm FINALLY doing a long study from a cast! Here's the start of the drawing, this is at 3 hours. Its really light so i had to mess with it in Photoshop, and I just couldn't get it to look right, so you have to look at this monstrosity. The camera was tilting wierd too, so the right ear looks smaller than the left, but its the camera I swear! :rolleyes:

I'll just take a picture out in the sunlight tomorrow, maybe that'll work better.

but for now:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040419a.jpg

then I did this for head drawing class:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040419b.jpg

^5 minute warmups^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040419c.jpg

^2 hour portrait^

[LightBrownboy]

Looks solid Ryan, the only thing I would say is you have to bring the rest of your values up to match the intensity of those eyes. They are the focla point but its sooo dark in comparison to the rest of the image they feel totally black like an alien or something. I know his eyes were are hidden by his eyelids and his squinting but i think bringing up the rest of the values wen you have a chance you make this solid.

-pat

[MindCandyMan]

Can't wait to see the cast finished...nice work man!

[drdarrow]

I agree with LightBrownBoy -- The eyes are attention-grabbing—in a bad way. And while I would word it differently, LBB has the right idea: to fill in the bright white with some tone. Bring down the values in the light area to make the eyes fit in better.

There are two problems (and since the model is home sleeping, you probably won't go back and finish/rework, but I'll tell you anyway).

1. The light areas (high value) are too light in comparison to the dark areas (low value). Your 5 minute warm-ups show greater eye-hand coordination than your longer finish. The values in the 5min are much more accurate (very simplified, too) and easy to enjoy. The only exception are the two with the glasses, in which the glasses stand out too much because A) they are blacker, and, B) they ae drawn in sharp focus and seeminly carefully. This makes them a focal point. However, they are all good drawings. The are all very expressive.

2. a common problem with artists: edges are all the same, namely outlined. Yes, using the block-in style of identifying your shapes and patterns you need to define boundaries, but tha beard, mustache and hair are all outlined. The effect is to objectify them: turn them into important objects. Effctively, they become cut-outs like paper dolls or pin the tail on the donkey, only now: pin the beard on the model.

Brown hair growing out of caucasion skin does not have the same edge (defined by value) as a brown paper mustache held over ones upper lip. What's the difference? There is a short transitional value or values between skin and hair.

From your seat, you cannot see the hairs growing out of his skin, but something is revealing to you that it's not a brown paper beard and musatche. It is a soft edge which should be imitated with transitional values.

If you will keep in mind that all hard edges speak of importance to the viewer's eye (or define "hardness") you will see where the problems are in your drawing. From the hair, to the hat, to the model's right cheek, to the underside of the nose, to the eyes... hard edges abound. There is no focal point, because everything is in focus, and everything has a sharp edge.

Okay, here's where I get my ruler out and slap your hand and shame you with "bad artist!" — the beard or hair, as it transitions into background (whether white paper or light-valued hat), should never have a sharp edge. Unless the model gelled his beard with surfboard resin, that edge is going to be soft, blurry, non-distinct. A dark beard should have a lighter edge as it transitions to a lighter background, because the two values are "blending" there. Even if you know the beard is wrapping around into shadow, it still gets lighter as the edge rolls around, because the lighter background shows through so many of the hairs (hairs you cannot individually make out).

And that brings me to the model's right cheek: disaster. :) You perceived that it was light because of the darker hair behind it, but it should have been drawn a little darker (lower values) than his left cheek, since you are trying to fool the viewer into believing there is a real light source to the front and right of the picture plane/model. Knowing (by shadow direction) that the light is closer to the model's (not the picture's) left cheek, why does the model's right cheek appear lighter? It's because of the value difference in the hair, and the hard edge. the stark contrast there effectively turns that cheek plane directly toward the viewer and makes it non-human. There should be slightly darker values there, especially as it rolls around out of sight.

I have tried to apply all these things here, below. Notice all the smudging and softness, without having damaged the likeness. Notice the illusion of fuzzy beard and hair, and see how the model's right drops away from us?

These are just techniques or "tricks" in your bag of illusions. You are not drawing with light and shadow, so you have to fool people into believing you are, even though all you have is charcoal and an eraser.

http://www.Darrowart.com/other/forums/smudged.jpg


I hope this long-winded critique was helpful.


Originally posted by pandawhipped
I'll just take a picture out in the sunlight tomorrow, maybe that'll work better.

If using a digicam, try using a tripod, ISO 100, exposure over-ride +1.0 to +1.7 -- your camera is seeing a lot of white and trying to turn it to a middle gray (that's what meters do in cameras) so you have to fool it back to white by over exposing.

The reverse is true to capture black: the camera will try to make it middle gray, too. You need to underexpose -- -1.0 to -2.0

[warmblade]

pandawhipped Hi,

Great work man! I love these! You said you use a conte charcole what softness? Thanks again for posting.....

[pandawhipped]

Patrick, man i didn't even notice that, thanks :)

MCM: Thanks, I'm loving the class so far. I'll most likely sign up for it next semester (right now I'm just attending it as a makeup class), or atleast buy a cast for myself.

David, thanks so much for taking the time to do that for me, it's exactly what I need. The point where beards and hair attatch to the skin is something I've yet been able to capture. Next time the opportunity arises, I'll give the softer approach a shot. I've always been very linear, and old habbits die hard, as I've proven to myself over the past year of schooling.

Also, thanks for the tip with the camera. I don't have a tripod so I had to use a chair instead :) But the image definitely came out better. It's edited on the previous page, but I'll just post it here for the lazy web browsers (myself included)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040419a.jpg

warmblade: Thanks, I used the 1710 conte B, but I'm gonna try out the wolf carbons 4b pretty soon. Seems a few people at my school are making the switch to those.

[B Prodigy]

Originally posted by pandawhipped
gonna try out the wolf carbons 4b pretty soon. Seems a few people at my school are making the switch to those.

Wolff's carbons 4b are fantastic. I use them all time. Whether it be in school or at home. And they're great on newsprint. I highly recommend them.

BTW, Nice work. :)

[zenmaster]

great work, keep it up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am going to try some exercices which you have shown !

thx, LÉ

[endregan]

this thread is so inspirational. thanks for posting these!

[J.Mac]

Pandawhipped, i have been watching your progression from the begining and i don't think i have posted a single comment... i really like your work it is similiar to mine in how i tend to be very analytical, alot of the time and get linear. I am curious to know how much previous art education you have had. Since i have only recently in the past 2 years have discovered they joys of drawing.

Great work!! I am glad you are posting it here! thank you :D

-Jesse

[Chewbacca]

sorry if i sound like a complete homosexual, but what are you doing these drawings with.

[pandawhipped]

B prodigy: thanks, yeah as soon as i get a chance I'm gonna go buy some

zen: cool, do as many excercises as you can! I'd look into books like Vanderpoel and bridgeman and such for more things to draw from though. You don't want to pick up my bad habbits

endegran: thanks, i only keep this up cause people like you push me with your progress threads, so make sure you don't stop posting!

Jmac: Hmm well when I was a kid a family friend taught me pretty much everything I knew up until the point of starting at Watts in April of 2003. She's a childrens book illustrator now, you check out her site at www.mauriejmanning.com (http://www.mauriejmanning.com) Other than that really nothing, unless you count copying dragonball z comics all through junior high as art education :) Thanks for posting!

Chewbacca:......uhhhhh

i use conte 1710 B pencils on smooth newsprint

here are my quicksketches from this morning. Man, I haven't done quicksketch in awhile, I need to sign up for the full class, cause mine are starting to look shabby, especially the 2 minute drawings.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040422e.jpg

^5 minutes^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040422a.jpg

^5 minutes^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040422b.jpg


^5 minutes^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040422c.jpg

^3 minutes^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040422d.jpg

^2 minutes^ i think i was getting tired at this point

[LightBrownboy]

Practice varying sizes in the figures, especially in the shorter poses. It will help you with your figure invention and you'll b able to put down more in a shorter period of time. Also do not feel like you have to get the whole figure...watever is down on the paper its down. Its good tog et the gesture of the pose down but if you keep feeling like you have to get the whole figure down always it mite hamper you.

Good stuff Ryan, keep it up...see ya in class.

_patrick

[MindCandyMan]

panda - Awesome quick ones man...these show the structure very well...it's hard to reduce things to something this simple you have done a great job.

[drdarrow]

Panda, I agree with MCM -- those really demonstrate good seeing, excellent abstracting, and accurate drawing. You should be very pleased with your progress, since where you are now is really quite good.

[pandawhipped]

Shucks, thanks for the encouragement guys! :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040423a.jpg

^3 minute warm ups^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040423b.jpg

^2.5 hour long pose^
This one was tough because he had a blanket half covering his leg. I couldn't figure out how to draw it in the time frame so that it looked like a blanket instead of a really skinny leg.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040423c.jpg

^This is probably the best head I've done on my own for figure drawing so I figured I'd put a close up of it.

I think I need a better camera. It doesn't like taking nice pictures inside, and puts all kinds of nasty compression grain or something. *shrug*

[Rohan]

gee panda your stuff is getting fresher all the time! That last long pose is a tremendous improvement. There are areas that bother me, like the areas of heavy contrast, particularly on his right side where his chest and abdominal area is treated too much like a quick block-form study but I'm sure you've noticed that one. Nice somposition on that one too. sorry I have been watching your progress for some time but have not posted. Your strokes in the areas of higher interest like the face are starting to show the unfussed nature of your drawing of peripheral anatomy and drapery. Keep it up I'm getting jealous :)

[Layil]

These are wonderful! i can see a definate improvement over time. I love the sensitivity of your values and the expression in your eyes. Your liknesses are good too.

Im jealous! i wanna go back to art school!

[pandawhipped]

Rohan: Thanks! Yeah I have a tendancy to blow in a strong contrasting value in one spot before the rest of the drawing is ready to move to that level, or I just run out of time. I'm going to try to work on building up my drawings layer by layer instead of focusing too long on one area.

Layil: Don't be jealous! Go back to school, you know you wanna. Thanks for the compliments :)

2 hour pose for today:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040424a.jpg

I was feeling wierd today, and I think my drawing suffered because of it. I didn't get as far as I have been lately, but I think I managed to get a good layin. Eric built up the values on the face for me at the end.

[endregan]

your long poses have come so far.

the short poses are so great too. inspiring thread for sure :)

[pandawhipped]

thanks Endegran :)

Here's an update on my cast drawing. If I'm not too lazy I'll go reshoot it in the sunlight tomorrow

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040426a.jpg
^6 hours so far^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040426b.jpg
^2 hour pose, not really happy with it at all. Its better than the last time I drew her though, so thats a good thing

[stipick]

anybody know of a list of atleir certified schools!!!???

really inspired by your work.

[Deth Jester]

Check here for Ateliers

http://www.artrenewal.com/asp/database/atelier_list.asp

peace
-mike

[xia]

Sweet!!!

[MindCandyMan]

can't wait to see that cast finished panda...looks awesome so far. Hopefully we will meet at the workshop as well ;)

[pandawhipped]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone :)

Nice avatar Xia!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040429a.jpg

^5 minute warm ups^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040429b.jpg

^2 hour portrait^

I'm pretty happy with how this one turned out, but of course any critique is always appreciated.

[endregan]

i have no critique for 'ee!

you are amazing :)

[drdarrow]

I know the model: Laurel.

You nailed her likeness.

That's some awesome drawing!

--Doc

[dzu]

Good stuff Ryan. My only comment is the core shadow along her cheek seems a bit too tight for her face. I'd feather it more so that it rolls better and gives the illusion of softer features rather than a harder corner at the cheekbone. It could be the photo, though.

[pandawhipped]

Endegran and "Doc": Thanks guys!

Icey: Yeah the right eye was hard to get cause it was basically just eyelashes.

Dzu: I think thats actually in the drawing, my camera isn't THAT bad! ;) I see what you mean, it would definitely help maintain the softness of her face.

My server was down for a week or so, so thats why i haven't bee updating, so let's get to it!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0404/040430a.jpg

^2 hour figure^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040501a.jpg

^2 hour figure^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040503a.jpg

^9 hours! Didn't have enough time to finish. I could take a picture of the cast and finish it at home, but...my camera sucks and I don't have time to finish it right now anyway.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040503b.jpg

^5 minute warm ups^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040503c.jpg

^2 hour portrait^

[pandawhipped]

same guy for portrait again tonight :) hes fun to draw, but i dont think i got his likeness at all this time around

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040507a.jpg

[Darkstrider]

Wow man, these are really awesome! I think my favorite is the second to last one. In the last one it looks like the guy's nose is somehow mashed into his face or something. It's a trip, seeing these same models that turn up in Fred Flickstone's work too.

And i really love the cast drawing. There's something really cool about the first drawing on this page, where only the one eye is drawn darker. It's a shame you can't finish it... you ought to just steal the cast for a few weeks or something. ;)

[endregan]

what can i say other than amazing :)

do you have any concept work or you just hiding it :).

[MindCandyMan]

These are fantastic panda. The only thing I would say be careful of is making your darks too dark. What I mean is that on the 2 hour portrait you did of that cool looking guy (I recognize him...I've seen him in Ron's drawings so good job on the likeness!) the eyes are very dark compared to the rest of the drawing. Same thing with the transitional dark tones on your cast and such. The last portrait you posted has more of an all around "correct value" feel. On the last portrait I love how you are experimenting with edges more and his beard looks fantastic. If you are drawing these on newsprint...perhaps you should reconsider. You could sell a lot of these!

[pandawhipped]

Darkstrider: haha thanks! Yeah i was thinking of borrowing the cast, but I don't think they would let me.

Endegran: Conceptwork...ummmm not really. On my site www.pandawhipped.com there are a few images other than life drawing, but its all 3d stuff.

Icey: thanks! keep practicing and your heads will become easier and easier

MCM: yeah I totally agree that the eyes there are too dark, but its really only because I didn't have enough time to bring the rest of the drawing up to that same level. And besides...Ron made me do it! ;)

Wow i never thought of selling these, thanks for the confidence. I think I'm too scared to do drawings on nice paper, like I feel pressure to make it good and it freezes me up. One day though!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040510a.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait ^

-Ryan

[pandawhipped]

Approached this one in a much looser fashion. Instead of creating a grid and being really strict with my rythm and construction lines, I just built a very crude head shape and feature placement, and then went from there. Ron did a bit of work on this one to help me loosen up a bit more.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040512a.jpg

I don't think its my best work yet, but I can see how it will help me push my drawings to the next level and not look so academic and stuctured. Gotta learn to trust my eye from now on.

[Bojee]

PW- I like this one.:thumbsup:

What's it like to study with Ron? He seems like a cool guy. He's already helped me a lot.:)

[dns2k]

ron is insane to study with... he brings so much more to the pad than just good art... i recomend the austin trip if you can afford it to meet him...


Panda... like i said earlier... bad ass pic... the model has a very long and hard to draw face and you handled it well

-dns

[LightBrownboy]

I know beggars can't be chooser...but i really dislike drawing that model.


Good stuff tho Ryan, big improvements....man.....that model sucks.

-P

[endregan]

yeah good heads...good form and values are well done. I really like the ones that you push the value in, it shows confidence..

Man you should at least try some on cartridge paper, do it for us :)

If you wait too long normal paper will be too foreign ~!!

[MindCandyMan]

hey panda these are lookin good! On this last one the darkness under the eye to our left is a bit distracting. Also the ear looks a bit funky. Also the shadowed portion under the nose looks a bit confusing. These are things you probably have seen already and I have to say that I couldn't get half the things down in the time contraints that you have...great work man keep it up see you in Austin!

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040517a.jpg

^ 5 minute warm ups ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040517b.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait^

Eric helped me out at the end of class cause I pushed the values WAYYYYY to dark. I haven't been able to go so dark until just recently so I'm still trying to figure it out.

[pandawhipped]

Bojee: All of the teachers at Watts are awesome to study with and Ron is no exception. He goes out of his way to push you and figure out what you want to do with your art and help you achieve it. I'm extremely fortunate to be able to study with him. Pretty much everyone is willing to stay after class to help anyone who needs it.

otto: thanks bro :)

pat: haha yeah i know exactly what you mean! oh well :/

endegran: I did my cast drawing on nicer paper, and i went so slow I couldn't finish it! :) The reason I draw on newsprint is cause it works best with the charcoal, and for the teachers. If we all used something different, everytime they came to a pad of paper they'd have to use a different method, so we all use the same stuff. One day though!

Icey: yeah her face is pretty long, but I may have exagerated it to push the type on accident

MCM: yeah i totally agree with you. I was having a lot of problems with that one cause of the way I approached it (and cause shes pretty tough to draw, but hey, no excuses right?). I'm always very structured and create like 50 lines for a grid on the face, carefully measuring everything, whereas that time I just treated it like a quick sketch cause I'm trying to loosen up. Gonna have to work harder at it!!!

-Ryan

[Bojee]

PW- Glad to hear it, I kinda thought that might be the case but I wanted to hear in your own words. Thanks. These last ones are great.:D

[bfly]

hey Ryan.. I thought this drawing was great when I saw it last night. I went really dark with mine too. Going for mood I guess. It was cool lighting on all the planes of his face. Did you notice..there were A LOT of cool drawings last night (I love that. It's so awesome to see everyone doing so well) ..and yours was definitely one of them. Anyway, it's cool to look back at your first couple pages on this thread and compare your drawings of the same model. Man, you're kickin booty! Very nice. Cheers!

[elboy]

hot damn, this is some great stuff! without a doubt, this is better than trying to draw Goku in all his different super saiyan stages. your portraits are really amazing. they really seem to know how to teach over there at Watts Atelier. Not to discredit your hard work. Keep it up. wow...

[MindCandyMan]

love the last portrait :chug:

[pandawhipped]

Bojee: Thanks! hey you should check out the school if you have the time to cruise to san diego

bfly: awww shucks, thanks vanessa :)

elboy: hahaha, maybe ill put some glowing hair on the next model just for ol' times sake

MCM: thanks dude

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040520a.jpg

^ 5 minute warm ups ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040520b.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait ^

-Ryan

[Bojee]

PW- I will if I can. Do they have open drawing sessions??

[pandawhipped]

yeah on Friday nights theres the drawing workshop, but its uninstructed so I'm not sure how much you would get out of it. I think its like 20 bucks or something, maybe 25, I can't remember.

-Ryan

[Groover McNab]

Wow. I've never seen this thread until today, and I guess I've been missing out. Great drawings here! I'm sure others will be encouraged to check out the school.

[Bojee]

PW- Wow pricey, up here it's only 6$ a session,but worth it if i can make it. Thanks for the info. Keep up the great work.:D

[fredflickstone]

nice work taking out that dark spot in his neck. That really pulled the focus up toward the front line of the face. Now, The eyes look a bit crossed. Might be more visible now because the dark was so distracting before, or did you work on that eye also? Gotta figure out the edges to get it out of crossed, but this is one step closer. Really nice work today. Both you and Dzu did great work. In fact, many in the class did well today dont you think? And that wasnt an easy pose to hold.

ron

[Jaku]

Wow panda! Great thread, great progress and amazing drawings.
You make me want to push myself as you´ve done in this thread. Thanks for the inspiration!:chug:
I´m very jealous.

[pandawhipped]

Groover: Thanks, yeah I hope this gets people interested in the school. Thats one of my goals with this :)

Bojee: Wow 6 bucks is cheap! I guess its cause of the high cost of living in San Diego. I know theres a guy who flies down here every week to take classes from the bay area. Not sure how much that's setting him back though. Start saving! ;)

Ron: Thanks for your help with that last one, and with the portrait last night too. I've seen a pretty big improvement since you've been pushing me to treat the layin as a quick sketch. Yeah the whole class is getting really good, its so awesome to see!

Jaku: Hey glad I could inspire you, thats great! Just draw draw draw draw and then draw some more. I need to do that too :)

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040522a.jpg

^ 2 hour figure ^

Not happy with how the head or the legs turned out...or the arms :) but I think I managed to get some good shaded form in the torso, even though its way too long.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040524a.jpg

^ 5 minute warm ups ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040524b.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait. Ron drew on it some after class ^

This one was tough cause I think it was the first time I had drawn a model that wore a lot of makeup, and it changed a lot of the shadows

-Ryan

[Bojee]

pandawhipped- The warm ups and the portrait are great. Her hair must have been really thick, it looks a little funny going off to the side like that, but I don't think it's your drawing. great stuff.:D

Hey would you mind commenting on the how to start a drawing session thread I started? It would be much appreciated. Trying to inspire people around the country to get one going. Maybe you could talk about watts a little bit. Thanks.:D

[pandawhipped]

Bojee - Aiya it IS my drawing. I didn't notice that at all, so I had to go fix it and seperate the hair from the shirt a little more. Maybe I just ruined it haha but oh well :) thats why I take pictures!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040524c.jpg

[Bojee]

PW- sorry dude, now I feel bad. I think it's better but if you really want to mess with it I think you have to either lose or fade the outside edge of her hair especially on our right side. That edge for me keeps bringing it forward, then all you see is the shape and that's what makes it feel lopsided. I hope that helps.:D

[pandawhipped]

haha no worries! I post my stuff here to get a second opinion. I hadn't thought that the hair looked like it just veered off to the left until you pointed it out. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by hte lopsidedness of the hair though. I don't really have a reason for why I did the hair like that (the fading to white and then an outline) I just thought it might look cool, but if it doesn't read, then thats no good. I'm not terribly attatched to these drawings so feel free to tear 'em to shreds.

If I drew this on a 20 dollar canvas and spent 15 hours on it, I might be a little more upset ;)

-Ryan

[Bojee]

Ryan- Like I said earlier , I really don't think it's your drawing so much as it's the pose, your rendering is beautiful, it reads but is a little distracting because there is so much of her hair on one side. That's what I mean when I say lopsided. It seems like more of a design problem than a rendering problem. What I was saying is with the sharpness of the line on the right side to me it makes you see the shape of the hair on that side regardless of whether you gradate back or not.

You seem to have lightened some of the areas in the face which i think still need to be dark to bring that area forward, then if you lose the edge on the right or set it way back I think it might do what your trying to make it do.

( more time passes)Alright I've been looking at it some more and actually I think it's still the line that's still bothering me but I think it's because it's taking me out of the composition, if you were bring it down towards her body then I think it might take you back into the composition, back up towards her face where you want the focus.

Hope that helps, for me it's more of a gut reaction first and then figuring out what it is that's bothering me. Like I said before it's a beautiful drawing and what I'm seeing may be more of a design problem.

PS. You really inspired me to get into some longer Drawing poses again, Thanks.Usually if I'm doing anything over an hr I'm painting.:D

[pandawhipped]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh NOW i see what you mean haha! thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure I'll have time to revisit this, but its something I'll have to think about next time the situation arises. Composition is something I'm just now starting to think about in my drawings cause I actually have time to be concerned about it. but I really have very little idea as to what I'm doing in that area. I'll have to make sure I get a teacher to help me out with that toward the end from now on.

-Ryan

[Bojee]

Ryan- No problem dude, i just wanted to make sure you got what i was trying to say.

Can't wait for the next posts.:D

[pandawhipped]

I haven't posted any updates on my sculpture lately cause I keep forgetting to bring my camera to class, but here's where I am now:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040526a.jpg


http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040526b.jpg


http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040527a.jpg

^ 2 hour figure drawing ^

[Bojee]

Ryan- holy shit dude, that's awesome! how many hrs do you have in on this?? How tall is it? What kind of clay are you using?:chug:

[Pichuerca]

It´s the first time that i see your work and it´s very great! I Wold like to see finished these half drawing that you are doing. You are wasting a lot of time with it!.

Well keep updating..

[LiL QoH]

Originally posted by pandawhipped
http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0403/040313a.jpg

^ Jeff drew on top of the head and down into the neck ^

Icey: theres really not much detail missing. Sometimes I just draw really lightly, but I try to adjust them in shotophop to look like the actual drawing since the flash messes them up

Vanderwolff: You know, I'm really not sure anymore. When I first came to school I really wanted to get into comic books since I used to draw them all the time as a kid, and I've missed doing that, then I thought about children's book illustration, and now i'm starting to consider the possibility of gallery work. Its YEARS off, but who knows? :)

Giottoface: haha thanks! :)

DanSTC: Good! Its always a good ego boost when you do well in class

Ben Mauro: yeah you can go whenever you want, its totally cool. Once the summer semester is over you can go back to whatever school you are attending :chug:

hoho! this is the man with the short arm and missing finger! I've drawn him before also at AIOC :]

[endregan]

awesome sculpture. I had no idea ateliers did concept art work like that. thats so cool

your life drawings are sooo good

[pandawhipped]

Bojee: thanks! Its about 30 inches tall made out of Le Beau Touche clay. I've been working on it for about 17 weeks now, so that would be around 45 hours or so. Its a 20 week class, so we're almost done with it.

Pichuerca: Thanks, I would finish these, but 2 hours just isn't enough time for me to do it

Lil Qoh: haha crazy

endegran: :) actually its not a conceptual sculpture (although there is a concept sculpture class). Its an anatomy study, starting with the skeleton and then building all the major muscles on top of it. The horns, wierd fingers and such are just added on whenever I get frustrated and can't seem to get the muscles looking right.

[pandawhipped]

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040528a.jpg

^ 2.5 hour figure ^

[lucasgraciano]

Hey Ryan-

Great stuff! I havn't check your progress in a while. You can see your huge leaps each semester. Keep up the studying and dedication and I'm sure we'll see some amazing stuff from you real soon! See ya in class.

Lucas

[endregan]

Nice...

That model sure has skinny legs but I know you pulled it off well. It looks a bit awkward on her right leg, but I guess its playing tricks because of the fat overlapping.

Hard model to do!! :)

Good stuff

[pandawhipped]

Icey: Thanks, yeah i can't wait to finish that thing!!

Lucas: Thanks dude, I appreciate the words of encouragement. Its so awesome to see everyone improving, yourself included.

Endegran: Yeah she was wearing super tight spandex pants, so I'm sure that had some effect on the fat of her legs, making htem appear skinny compared to the rest of her. I think the foreshortening problems in the right leg is more due to my poor handeling of tone in that area. I'm not used to getting close to a finish with my drawings so I'm still learning how to apply tone correctly.

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040529a.jpg

^ 2 hour figure ^

[pandawhipped]

Watts doesn't stop for Memorial Day!

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040531a.jpg

^ 5 minute warm ups ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0405/040531b.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait ^

[Bojee]

PW- Love the last two. You're really getting portraits down.:D

[StylesDavis]

your drawing definately rock. :chug:

can you tell what kind of paper you use? which size and all that...?

[endregan]

Memorial day eh.

maybeh one day there will be a holiday for artists ;)

Good stuff!

[Yupa]

Wow! Looked through all the postings in slo-mo and I have to say you've done a lot of improving since the first posting... Damn. DAMN.

[elboy]

I can't really add much to this thread other than open-mouthed adoration. this is seriously some beautiful-ass stuff (the -ass isn't really necessary). your sculpture looks great. I imagine that making it helps a lot in learning (and remembering) anatomy. It's funny that the horns and such are added out of frustration; they look cool too. I really like your drawings. Every now and then browsing through CA I'll come across images that are so good they make me shake my head and mutter curse words to myself. Seriously, panda. Beautiful-ass stuff.

[cityworker]

nice job panda! The portraits are fantastic. Nice flow to your work, I like how you have a loose painterly style to your charcoal drawings. I always have a problem with that. My drawings are way too tight. Great job though. Figure drawings are coming along also. Nice to see your progress every class session.

[dumah]

This is very good work. I am impressed and inspired!

[drdarrow]

That last one is just wonderful. You're really getting "edges" down. There is so much maturity demonstrated in that last head.

Your values are SO much better, too.

You are "seeing" so much better.

Good for you!

--Doc

[pandawhipped]

Bojee: thanks!

styles davis: thanks, i use seth cole smooth newsprint, 18x24. A lot of people are having problems with it lately though. For some reason its hard to put charcoal down once youve erased it, but I haven't really noticed this problem yet.

endregan: you know, i think the only holidays we observe at school are easter and christmas.

Yupa: :) hey thanks

elboy: wow thanks elboy, yeah the sculpture is defintely helping me improve. If anything now when friends say ugh my back hurts right here, I can say oh thats your inraspinatus!

cityworker: thanks, i'd love to see your work, but I don't know who you are! So...who are you? ;)

dumah: thanks :)

drdarrow: Hey thanks "doc" I appreciate it.

Just keep in mind everyone that my teachers are helping me a LOT, constantly coming by and giving me guidance and instruction.

Anyway, heres some drawings from last week that I forgot to post:

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0406/040606a.jpg

^ 2 hour figure ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0406/040607a.jpg

^ 5 minute warm ups ^

http://www.pandawhipped.com/~ryana/conceptart/0406/040607b.jpg

^ 2 hour portrait ^

I think with this one the nose is too far over to the left, and the mouth is on the wrong tilt. This was kind of a tough one cause her tilt was constantly changing, but I guess thats the joy of drawing from life.

[endregan]

yeah man darn the humans and their moving. Its frustrating sometimes when you draw their arm in one pose then it slowly moves, but its all part of it :)

Gotta love your work. Maybe her nose is crooked. Someone maybe punched her out for moving too much last class. ;)

good stuff keep it up..

[MindCandyMan]

I LOVE the portrait of that bearded man...fantastic fantastic fantastic...wow