Getting started on Machines

[Creator]

Hi I am a beginning artist who has just got the hang of drawing organics. But I want to start on Machines but there is no drawing machines book I can find, maybe I am looking in the wrong places....?

Organics have anatomy books and muscles which I have spent a lot of time on. But is there anything that I can get started on?

[emily g]

Check out the paintovers that YVerloc has been doing in the Critique Center.
For example, this:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101780

[Creator]

Actually it's like this...... In Organics we have to study musclature and the basics.... but in machines is there something like that?

[Magic Man]

Actually it's like this...... In Organics we have to study musclature and the basics.... but in machines is there something like that?

In in-organic subject matter, I believe the underlying "skeleton" is perspective. Since machines have no single application or build, even within the same class, such as cars, there is no underlying "think" that ultimately ties them all together.

If you rip off the top layer of all the machines, they would all probably look very different underneath.

But the one thing I find that affects a very large range of machines, especially with straight and parallel edges, is perspective. Learn it well.

m

[Ilaekae]

Try checking out your library or a large bookstore for engineering (student-grade) and "How-it-works" or "How-they-did-that" books. Reference on ship-building, automobile and aircraft construction, and even architecture magazine (the more industrial the better) may also be useful. Children-oriented books on big machines, farm equipment, military vehicles and ships, and how they're built can be great, as well as medical-science tech reference on prothsetic design and computer-operated medical and dental tools. See if you can find anything on Artificial Intelligence and Robotics research (probably in science and scholastic journals). Get a history of space exploration (picture-heavy) and space travel, theoretical and applied. Items built for moon exploration, for example, are minimalist structures with very little obscuring "skin" so you can actually see the underlying structure more easily. Have you ever looked at a history of aviation or the railroad, or even ship building? These are loaded with images of "machines" that are at first basic structures that over time become more complex as they develope into our modern versions, and seeing this progression and understanding it will be more informative than checkin' out the latest "Cap'n Yuki's Manga Android Book."

The problem in creating "machine" art comes from the fact that the structural elements are often hidden by cosmetic and "style" applications of "skin," just like the human body, so attack the problem the same way you would anatomy. You have a brain--use it. A quick look at a car repair manual or even the Eifel Tower would show you the basics of how components are assembled to support and operate the greater whole. Study pictures of backhoes and other pneumatic-dependent equipment like road graders, tanks, and cat tractors to see how the mechanisms hook together and how they're supported. You're not so much looking for specific details of every little thing you can see, but rather, an idea of how the mass supports itself, and then what has to be added to support motor functions and other necessary operations your "machine" is going to have to do.

How much of this is obscured from view, or openly applied to the structure in full view will depend on what the purpose of your machine is. Will it be in a hostile environment? Does it have to be easily repairable in the field? Is it going to be bought by some schmuck who likes shiney things that impress his girlfriend or will it be a hard-ass piece of precise practicality. This determines the basic limits that you will have to consider when you "skin" your item.

What does a machine do (in the context of your art piece)? Where will it be used? This explains why a space craft looks different from a military vehicle, and why underwater machines like subs and bathies look so superficially like the delivery and human-support vehicles in space travel. They have the same aerodynamic and atmospheric problems, just at different extremes of the scale.

After that, it's just common sense...There will never be a 2,000-foot high elephant because it wouldn't be able to stand or support its own "life-support" structure. If you REALLY need one, what do you have to do from a structural standpoint to get it?

[Creator]

Are You Implying That I Have No Brains....!!!!

Do you have any idea that there are so many artists outside who draw machines?, if I just learn from them I might be just a photocopy machine artist who doesn't understand the internals...... I made the same mistake once with Organics.... I just copy from anime and now I swore never to watch anime again!....

So you cannot say I have no brains... I am just lost.

[Elwell]

Are You Implying That I Have No Brains....!!!!
Well, if that's all you got from Ilaekae's post...

[blackrobin]

i like machines
some anime can be quite accurate in portraying and describing machines..
thats a great post from Ilaekae, he points out a lot of thing you need to know, and answers your question perfectly
to make it simple, try to learn how machine works, whats the function of the parts, how the structures work, etc

[Magic Man]

Are You Implying That I Have No Brains....!!!!

Do you have any idea that there are so many artists outside who draw machines?, if I just learn from them I might be just a photocopy machine artist who doesn't understand the internals...... I made the same mistake once with Organics.... I just copy from anime and now I swore never to watch anime again!....

So you cannot say I have no brains... I am just lost.

...erm...this picture should suffice in what I am thinking right now...

http://www.misplaced.net/stfu/chopper-wtf.jpg

[Ilaekae]

WTF!!?!!

Where the fuck did I say you had no brains, you fuckin' illiterate little twit? I'm fuckin' sick and tired of wasting my time with assholes like you who invent reasons to accuse me of something I didn't do, especially after i OBVIOUSLY wasted my fuckin' time trying to help someone who FUCKIN' can't read simple fuckin English!

Fuck you and the gopher you rode in on...>:{

[Magic Man]

WTF!!?!!

Where the fuck did I say you had no brains, you fuckin' illiterate little twit? I'm fuckin' sick and tired of wasting my time with assholes like you who invent reasons to accuse me of something I didn't do, especially after i OBVIOUSLY wasted my fuckin' time trying to help someone who FUCKIN' can't read simple fuckin English!

Fuck you and the gopher you rode in on...>:{

Tell us how you really feel Ilaekae!

[Ilaekae]

Don't push me, you sheep-shaggin' vegamite crawler... ;)

[Magic Man]

Sheep? Thats the new Zealanders...Koalas is where its at.

Anyhow, why do you fuck sheep at the edge of a cliff?

Because they push back harder!

[HunterKiller_]

Speechless.

[AlexC]

I have a few really useful links for drawing machines and robots, but I am not sure if I want to post them now :$

[h2rra]

Thanks for your post Ilaekae. Lol, Alex, don't be afraid and post them :D

[TheGnoll]

I think he might have understood "you have no brain", when he read "You have a brain--use it.".Which doesn't make SENSE, but...yo know, read one word, skip the other 5.

And c'mon IlaeKae, we know you LOVE this kind of situations :D
Anyway.Ilaekae gave you an excellent in-depth awnser, Creator.I do disagree on one thing tho, Ilaekae, There are some simple books on the subjects wich can be pretty interesting, if used correctly.Keith Thompson published a pretty cool book on bots n mechs.Sure, its simple, and it won't help half as much as doing what Ilaekae told you would, but if what you're after is just a simple book, check out his drawing robots or something book.Really can't remember the name of the book, but a quick search can help.

ciao

[Ilaekae]

Sorry for the outburst, everybody. It was just a tad over the top, but I was sitting here pickin' splinters out of my bloody arm where a set of shelves I'm assembling fell on me. NOT in a good mood just then...

'Gnoll, know the books you mentioned, but I haven't seen them in so long I figured they'd be hard for him to find. My main goal was to get him to think first about the operating structure before he made it "cool-looking..." I've seen so many attempts at "machines" that just come out like crap no matter how well they're rendered because the artist didn't think ahead. Actually saw a massive tank-like thing with a huge set of guns blasting away at a target that had apparentlt raised itself about 150 feet in the air on spindly little telescoping legs that were pretty much directly under it. Hope the poor bastard he drew in the cockpit had a support team that followed him to dig his ass out of the ground after every firing recoil...

And AlexC...

I'd like to see the stuff you mentioned. I'm doing some roughs right now that include mechanical devices and they might just help. I understand basic engineering and structural shit, but never having driven a car, I sometimes do stupid things like forgetting you need brakes or something like that...

[Magic Man]

Sorry for the outburst, everybody. It was just a tad over the top, but I was sitting here pickin' splinters out of my bloody arm where a set of shelves I'm assembling fell on me. NOT in a good mood just then...

'Gnoll, know the books you mentioned, but I haven't seen them in so long I figured they'd be hard for him to find. My main goal was to get him to think first about the operating structure before he made it "cool-looking..." I've seen so many attempts at "machines" that just come out like crap no matter how well they're rendered because the artist didn't think ahead. Actually saw a massive tank-like thing with a huge set of guns blasting away at a target that had apparentlt raised itself about 150 feet in the air on spindly little telescoping legs that were pretty much directly under it. Hope the poor bastard he drew in the cockpit had a support team that followed him to dig his ass out of the ground after every firing recoil...

And AlexC...

I'd like to see the stuff you mentioned. I'm doing some roughs right now that include mechanical devices and they might just help. I understand basic engineering and structural shit, but never having driven a car, I sometimes do stupid things like forgetting you need brakes or something like that...

You've never driven a car? How on earth do you get around?

[worxe]

You've never driven a car? How on earth do you get around?

Maybe he doesn't need to drive around, his destinations go to him..


Creator - I'd re-read ilaekae's informative post that answered your original question and then some.

Also, even if creator didnt get the gist of your post ilaekae, plenty of other people including myself learn alot from posts like that, so It is far from vain. :)


-edit- I don't s'pose the shelving was from Ikea?

[Qitsune]

For the benefit of people who got attracted to this thread and are still interested:http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/diy_steampunk/

[Ilaekae]

"-edit- I don't s'pose the shelving was from Ikea?"

No way. I have nearly 3000 pounds of 3/4-inch plywood shelving in my house covering just about every open space I can find. It's the only thing strong enough to hold all my shit...

When I'm done, I'm going to post in "My Studio" so you can see how pathetic I really am at getting organized...:tihi:



...and Magic'... Take another look at my reaction to the kid claiming I called him brainless and ask yourself if you think I should be on the road. I started to learn how to drive in 1962 in a '54 Merc. Somebody laughed because i kept confusing the pedals, so I chased him with car...right up his six front steps, across his porch and pretty much through his front door into his living room. Took me nearly six years to pay THAT one off.

[TheGnoll]

Very interesting link, Qitsune, cool read ;)

anyway this is the book i was talking about.When i took a look at the cover
of these too i wasn't interested at all, actually.But then i noticed the authors name, one of my favourite character/bot/vehicles designers, i changed my mind.Very interesting read, cheap, and inpiring stuff.The author, btw, is Keith Thompson (http://www.keiththompsonart.com/).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Robots-Draw-Paint-Fantastic-Characters/dp/0764133101/ref=sr_1_6/202-6040829-2579069?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185737467&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fantasy-Vehicles-Draw-Paint-Awe-Inspiring/dp/071532683X/ref=sr_1_3/202-6040829-2579069?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185737467&sr=1-3

again, the title and cover aren't promising at all, but they are pretty cool.Sure, it doesn't really go in depth about the actual mechanics, but some design issues just need a good thinking and ref searching in advance.
And for ref seaching, even a simple (pretty expensive) visual dictionary can help.Again, common sense helps a lot, and this applies to ANYTHING, i guess :D

And Ilaekae, those kind of outburst always bring a smile on my face, so thanks :D (btw, you are one SICK HIPPY)(hope this doesn't sound offensive but...)(well, you are a weird individual :D ;))

ciao

[firespirit]

Ilaekae: Thanks a lot for the post, it's really helpful, even if the OP didn't read it.

Qitsune: Great link! I'm madly in love with steampunk designs, this really helps a lot.

[Magic Man]

...and Magic'... Take another look at my reaction to the kid claiming I called him brainless and ask yourself if you think I should be on the road. I started to learn how to drive in 1962 in a '54 Merc. Somebody laughed because i kept confusing the pedals, so I chased him with car...right up his six front steps, across his porch and pretty much through his front door into his living room. Took me nearly six years to pay THAT one off.

Suddenly...the canvas the size of a small country in your backyard no longer seems so "out there". :xpld: