Perception

[Zilant]

I just can't seem to figure where the line between "I understand what I'm seeing" and "other people will understand what they're seeing" is. I understand, of course, everyone is different and all that political jazz. But I have the worst knack for befuzzling the grand majority.

I'm really very frustrated, and truth be told, emberassed about it. It seems like something that should be obvious, because I never really see anyone else make this mistake with my same unerring consistency. Maybe a limb here, and piece of armor, but rarely the whole thing - every time. After about a year of this, I'm really starting to think there are some vital wires crossed in the perception center of my brain.

It's something I desperately need to conquer, I mean, it's fine to tap the person next to me in college and say "Do you get this? Should I refine it more?", but I imagine I'd drive the coworker next to me batty if I relied on that in the professional sphere. Especially in reguards to the idea that concept art is made to be seen by other artists, so you don't (nessisarily) put all the glitz and glitter into them you would a piece for other purposes.

I've tried to study Minimalism and Suibokuga, but beyond looking at how other people manage to say alot with so very little, I'm totally at a loss.

How do you personally tell how much refinement is...enough?

[-sideshowbob-]

emotions - feelings..

how else can we say : its enough its ok its good or not ..without feeling it :dur:

some ppl think they dont feel anything if they cant put it in words but thats just wrong .. be focused on ur heart not ur mind - ur mind is helpless without the heart ( emotions build THE personal relationship between consciousness and reality )

[Zilant]

So what your saying is,
a piece shouldn't be considered closer to completion by using any physical attribute (like establishing shadows) as a marker, but by how close it comes to setting the intended mood?

Huh.
I never would've thought of that.
I can see the wisdom in it, though. Thank you Sideshow. :^^:

[tensai]

to figure that out it helps to imagine showing it to your mum, or your friends mum - would she get it? without any verbal explanation what will the piece and the different things in it say to her? does it make her understand whatever it is you want to convey?
what things could you add, omit or alter to do that more effectively?

[Seedling]

I've tried to study Minimalism and Suibokuga,

That's likely your problem. In order to abstract a real thing into an image, you must first understand it in all of its complexity. If you study an abstraction instead of getting to the source by working from life, then you may learn a few formulas for reproducing abstractions (such as line-for-an-eye, hook-for-a-nose) but you won't learn how to abstract the forms on your own.

[Zilant]

Well, I didn't mean to imply I'd studied in lieu of good ole' fashioned life drawing (not that I'm as good about that as I should be, more couldn't hurt, and I need to buckle down and do more of it as I got out of the swing of it about a year ago getting absorbed in 3-D packages and animation instead) Or that I'm having trouble getting an audience to comprehend a final piece polished aud naseum.

But more like, I'm trying to understand where in the process of Start to Finish I can stop still have a comprehensible image. Where the bare minimum of understanding is.

I mean, Point A all the way to Point Z, every bit makes perfect sense to me because I'm the artist. I know nobody else is going to understand it at Point A. And if I want to make a public image, I have to go all the way to Z. But for the purposes of showing to other artists? J? K? P?
Is it when you block out the basic form and color? When shadows are applied? Basic texture? I don't know where to stop for Critique, I guess it goes without saying I have no blessed clue where to stop for handing something off to a Modeler.

Seems everyone around me seems to be able to divine what level of polish is appropriate for yourself versus your fellow Artist versus John Q Public. And I just have no freakin' clue. :nohope:

[Seedling]

I might be able to help you better if you post some of your work. :-) Linkee?

[dose]

Yes, specific examples will help us understand what the problem you're experiencing is much more clearly.

[Zilant]

Ohkie Dohkie.

Here's a nice example (and it's local)
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96870


Also:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/Chibichilde/Indesicive.jpg

To me those both seem about the same level of polish (for the record: not very). And for some stupid reason I look at those and think "Oh yeah, I'm sure my fellow artist gets where I'm going with that".

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/Chibichilde/DragonetteSketchTest1.jpg
(sorry, haven't gotten around to making a pretty scan of that yet)
I try to compensate for this, bizarro handicap of mine, but end up overcompensating. This last picture (a stab at a modeling sheet) my model/rigger friend accused me of "almost babying the modeler with that much detail".

It's like it's always either too little or too much. I can never just seem to hit that industrial sweet spot where the picture is both obviously speedy and easily comprehensible.

[Seedling]

Yup, you need to do more drawing from life. Your friend is wrong - that last drawing is not burdened by too much detail. It is by far the best of the three. The other two are way too undeveloped. Successful loose-looking art is not the same thing as speedily-made or carelessly-made. If you want to improve at digital painting, paint in blocks of color - not outlines. Start with the largest possible brush and use it until it feels restrictive. Then use a slightly smaller brush to refine the entire image, then a smaller brush, etc. If you are drawing with a mouse, trade it in for a tablet or go back to your sketchbook.

Stop thinking of your abilities as if you have a handicap. You don’t. You just need more practice. For now, don’t rely on your fellow artist being able to “get it”. When writing a paper for school you have to explain everything, down to “water is wet”. You need to be just as absurdly clear when drawing. A head must be 100% head-shaped; you want to be drawing a specific person's head at a specific angle, and not an icon of a generic head. Later, down the road, you can start simplifying and letting your audience fill in details.

Come try out Concept Art 101 if you need ideas on how to practice. The link is in my sig.

Cheers. :-)

[Zilant]

So basically,
While concept art is considered art for artists, that particular aspect of it is much more subtle than I'm taking it for, and isn't something I should be actively striving to achieve until I have a few good years of education under my belt?

Well, that makes sense.
Back to the drawing board for me.
Much appreciated, Seedling :^^:

[wheezy]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0961454733/saelonsstudio

I recommend this book.

[Seedling]

So basically,
While concept art is considered art for artists, that particular aspect of it is much more subtle than I'm taking it for, and isn't something I should be actively striving to achieve until I have a few good years of education under my belt?


Concept art is just another form of illustration. Illustration is communication through images. Just as with writing and speaking, you'll want to focus first on communicating clearly; and when you've got a handle on that, you can work on communicating in a way that is aesthetically pleasing.

Cheers!