How did this get into CNC3?

[TonyBKK]

There's some really sloppy artwork in the game, namely in the archives section. I guess they ran out of finances and had to resort to amateur illustrators? Maybe I should start looking for gigs aswell..

(no offence to the artists, of course. kudos on getting the job :))

Here's one example, the GDI grenadier

[Dile_]

haha you can't say "This art sucks" and then "no offense against the artists"...

Ohwell, I saw a game some time ago.. Warhammer'ish game .. The concept art/illustrations behind it looked really fucking bad ( I have no idea how those artists got hired , cause really, they had less practice then most newbies ) and yet the game was the kind of game that gets sold in millions of copies :S

But on the other side... look at the winners from that blizzard contest... 8 year old kid doing a stupid collage getting to be the winner. Or something ...

Why ? No damn idea :S Maybe to make them feel good or something.. or maybe as you said.. Low financial status. As for the kid winning the blizzard contest .. I guess it was a nice gesture, to give the kid some hope or something.. But yeah, I dunno..

edit*
btw, have you seen how cnc3 looks ? To me it looks like just a fancy graphic update on the previous games... So were they in need of concept artists ? Not really...

-Dile

[Magic Man]

Sometimes, the concept art is produced by the modeller too, so the concept art doesn't need to be as articulate as we see here in the forums.

In a lot of companies, the concept art -> final model stage is done by the same artist, and the concept stage merely needs a few key points to remind themselves of what they want.

But yeah, looking at the concept by itself, it doesn't look the best.

[Arne S.]

why does it "suck"? it´s just a rough concept and gives all the info needet.

[TonyBKK]

It's not concept art only, it's in-game graphics as well!

There are descriptions of different kinds of units, structures, etc and they are accompanied by illustrations. Most of them are GQ like the flame guy here, but a few sloppy ones somehow got in as well. My quick judgement is that there were atleast three people doing these pics, and one of them wasn't so skilled in 2d work. Just compare the two in the attached pic...

As for the game itself, it's ok. Then again, I haven't played any other CNC games since Red Alert. AI remains a problem, atleast on normal difficulty level.

[TonyBKK]

um, the pic:

[Lohan]

? People already answered your question. it doesn't have to look great as long as it aids the modeler in making the model.

[Jtho]

I too noticed that there were a few sloppy pieces floating around on the C&C website and various places, probably done by an intern or modeler in a pinch or something. Most of the production art for the game however is actually quite good, and for the record C&C3 is a great game :p

http://www.cncden.com/cnc3_concept/nod_flame_concept.jpg
http://www.cncden.com/cnc3_concept/cc3_scrin.jpg

[chazanoble]

There's some really sloppy artwork in the game, namely in the archives section. I guess they ran out of finances and had to resort to amateur illustrators? Maybe I should start looking for gigs aswell..

(no offence to the artists, of course. kudos on getting the job :))

Here's one example, the GDI grenadier

Just because you work for an established game company doesn't mean your skills are all there. There's so many ways that you could have landed that job. That's why I am never impress when people say they work for so and so on this and that project. I look at their work and that will tell me if they got the skills I need or not.

[otis]

Wow. Some real big and frustrated egos floating around here if you ask me.
The last blue scene works just fine with me.

[TonyBKK]

? People already answered your question. it doesn't have to look great as long as it aids the modeler in making the model.

? Since when doesn't in-game graphics have to look good? What would Civilisation be if all the icons were made with MS paint?

Otis: No one said the last pic is not awesome

chazanoble: right on. but I want to know how to land a job with no skills, would be great to have some side projects while in college :)

[Jtho]

? Since when doesn't in-game graphics have to look good? What would Civilisation be if all the icons were made with MS paint?


Except none of the pictures you posted are icons, nor are they used in the actual gameplay for anything.

[CptScarlet]

I think what may be overlooked is the fact that the artwork may not be for promotion or in-game use. There really is no need to spend 20 hours working on something that could be easily portrayed in a 1 hour(if that) rough sketch.

Fair enough if the image was intended for "eye candy" or for pasting all over a gaming mag for promo then yes a highly rendered piece of work is needed to build some hype... for sketchbook reference to the modellers then all you need to get across is the main idea as simply as possible.

All about communication ;)

[chazanoble]

chazanoble: right on. but I want to know how to land a job with no skills, would be great to have some side projects while in college :)

lol. If you have no skills, make sure you know someone in the industry really well who is in a hiring position. If you don't, bribe them with cash, sexual favors or any other weakness you can find. :P

Seriously, if you know what role you want to play in an industry, you really have to work hard to develop your skills for that job. Practically speaking, all you can really do if you are honest is show some genuine interest, work on developing your skills(demos, portfolios), network and constantly inquire/apply for those positions.

Wow. Some real big and frustrated egos floating around here if you ask me.
The last blue scene works just fine with me.


Anyhoo, going back to the topic. I don't think it's a matter of ego. Any work from anyone is fair game for criticism. If you feel something sucks, tell it like it is instead of being all PC about it. In general, if you are supposedly a pro in the industry and it's your work that is being criticize, lose the ego if someone is correct, grow some balls, accept it, and learn from it. btw, the tank and blue scene were meant to show some of the good work in CNC3.

[TonyBKK]

First of all, the grenadier illustration is plain horrible. It shows clearly that the person who did it doesn't have much skill in 2d rendering; there are plenty of artist out there who can do a 10 min speedy that looks better, more defined in form etc. Secondly, if it was ment only for conceptualisation, then it would be a full body picture instead of a portrait, but that's beside the point since the piece is in the game.

My original point was to hear what other people think about this kind of a sloppy piece finding its way into a mega project like CNC3. Afterall, IMO, every piece of art in a game contributes to the overall quality of the product; it might not affect sales, but this is a question of professionalism.

Seems a few people are as puzzled as I am, but quite a few don't seem to be moved by it, saying that it's not graphics that is related to the actual gameplay. Fair enough, everyone has the right to their opinion :)


"lol. If you have no skills, make sure you know someone in the industry really well who is in a hiring position. If you don't, bribe them with cash, sexual favors or any other weakness you can find. "
:patriot:

[scott_ewen]

the "blue scene" is a craig mullen piece.

so, yeah. gud. :)

[otis]

Afterall, IMO, every piece of art in a game contributes to the overall quality of the product; it might not affect sales, but this is a question of professionalism.

I don't agree. Just becuase somthing isn't illustrated beautifully doesn't mean it will hurt the overall quality of the product. I've worked for plenty of companies who encourage the art staff to contribute their ideas in the early stages. It's a form of visual brainstorming. Later on , if it's a good idea..you can give it to the concept artist to elaborate furth or clean it up.

IMHOP.

[chazanoble]

I don't agree. Just becuase somthing isn't illustrated beautifully doesn't mean the concept behind it sucks. I've worked for plenty of companies who encourage the art staff to conceptualize their ideas in the early stages. It's a form of visual brainstorming. Later on , if it's a good idea..you can give it to the concept artist to elaborate furth or clean it up.

But to assume that the artists who can illustrate well should be the only ones to contribute is wrong.

IMHOP.

No one is saying people who can't draw/paint shouldn't contribute to the product. He's implying their work shouldn't be use in the final production especially if it's inconsistent with the other artwork. Just like you wouldn't use the rough sketches of a dear friend who you hired but don't have the heart to tell him his talent is not up to par in an animated movie for your final feature, you don't use bad pictures for your final game.

Business wise, it's in the best interest for a company to be associated with quality work if it's in the business of being commericially successful. It enhances the brand and the franchise. At a personel level, it's makes the art director and the art team as a whole look good which could open up more opportunities for them.

[FlipMcgee]

Business wise, it's in the best interest for a company to be associated with quality work if it's in the business of being commericially successful. It enhances the brand and the franchise. At a personel level, it's makes the art director and the art team as a whole look good which could open up more opportunities for them.

Broad generalization.

Many game companies are under limited budgets and under strict milestone deadlines. Whatever gets the job done (which pushes the game development closer to completion), however ugly the art or crappy the a.i. or gameplay, gets accepted or included in. Who knows, an art director or lead artist might have jumped shipped before the game was finished and so with different guys in you get a different style in the art or quality of the art.

[chazanoble]

Broad generalization.

Many game companies are under limited budgets and under strict milestone deadlines. Whatever gets the job done (which pushes the game development closer to completion), however ugly the art or crappy the a.i. or gameplay, gets accepted or included in. Who knows, an art director or lead artist might have jumped shipped before the game was finished and so with different guys in you get a different style in the art or quality of the art.


Addressing your example. That goes without saying that developers have limited resources, deadlines, and unexpected scenarioes to deal with. If you are not in a management position, you probably don't have much control over that. That why you have/need experience producers that can get reasonable resources and set timeline for each department to do quality work. Even if you don't meet that deadline, it doesn't mean you should turn in a product that has incomplete key elements.(I'm not referring to cnc3 anymore. It is a fine game) Chances are your product will tank because of poor reviews and sales (unless it's a movie license.) Publishers will be little more hesitate to fund your next project because you have reputation for making bad games.
And if you are honest with yourself, even if you are earning a decent livelihood, it's very unfulling to work on crappy products. So I'll say it again: It's in the interest of developers to make quality product if they want to be commercially successful.

[Tangible]

I can't say that most of these pieces look that sloppy, and there's a good explanation about that grenadier image in the first post; when the modeller gets to make something from a picture, it serves him better if it's a plain 2D. Getting to model an aircraft -for example- out of a 3D concept which will most likely show the aircraft from a fancy angle, makes things impossible. Reference pictures for modellers are usually in 2D and simplified.

[Jason Manley]

There's some really sloppy artwork in the game, namely in the archives section. I guess they ran out of finances and had to resort to amateur illustrators? Maybe I should start looking for gigs aswell..

(no offence to the artists, of course. kudos on getting the job :))

Here's one example, the GDI grenadier


Well I can say that we were working with EA at the time and personally requested to work on that project as C&C is on my top three games list of all time (we went down to the studio and met with the team and did see a lot of really nice concept work)...but in the end they said we were too expensive (when I want a project a lot, I am very very fair with the price...but alas.) and clearly outsourced some of it to artists who did not have a professional skillset. Once again, ya get what ya pay for.

[Chermilla]

Ahhh EA huh? I know quite a few people that used to work there and they do have this 'scheme' where they try and help people in other departments (such as QA), who really want to try their hand at other areas such as programming and art into those job roles. I think that more publishers could really benifit from doing such things but only if the people they decide to 'help' progress actually have some half decent skills to begin with and a general good knowledge of what the job role entails.

Well, that's what they apparently try to do over the EA here in England, but it may be completey different in the US I'm not sure.

I also knew of a poor concept artist that only got the job because he had a family member already working there...sometimes it's more about who you know rather than what you know too. :/

But yeah, it does seem you get what you pay for!! :)

Cx

[AoW-Descent]

Regarding the CnC artwork:

It's a question of the game dev's commitment to the art-aspect of the game. Is every potential gamer also an avid art enthusiast and critic? Of course they probably threw that digital sketch up there as a placeholder, a picture for the sake of a picture. A while ago I read the Art of Warcraft (Yes I know this isn't CnC), but most of the concept images in there looked just like they came from an amateur's sketchbook, professional wasn't the first thing you'd call them.

In the end, the gameplay and the rave reviews are what will net them their gains, though art can make a better impression.





But on the other side... look at the winners from that blizzard contest... 8 year old kid doing a stupid collage getting to be the winner. Or something ...


Unless you can name the contest and link to the piece in question, I'm not sure I really remember that. There are quite a few amazing digital painters that submitted work, but of course Blizzard had to lend some light to the less impressing cartoon/illustrated pieces as well.

I don't remember seeing any abnormally low quality Blizzard images making it in the actual contests, as opposed to the on-site fanart gallery.

But I hope they don't do anything stupid with the recent Blizzcon fanart contest (Did something for them, I'm just hoping the overrepresented characters/themes aren't the ones stealing attention).

[R a n d i s]

Wow. Some real big and frustrated egos floating around here if you ask me.
The last blue scene works just fine with me.

Sure it works.
as far as i remember that blue one was made by Craig Mullins.
So that should answer the question about the budget on that game.
If they pay him for a couple of artworks then there is no money left for the others... just kidding.

and the one above, the rather crappy red teapot tank was done by Feng Zhu design.