How can we improve the sketchbook forum?

[davi]

I've noticed the sketchbook forum is really popular, REALLLLLLLY popular. Within an hour theres a chance a new poster can be pushed off to the second page.

Is this a problem?

If it is, can you guys think of a solution?

I had an idea of maybe making a few sketchbook forums, so people maybe doing industrial design more would work in that forum more?

i dont know... im really shot on ideas of how to fix this.

[Abigail the Strong]

maybe we could have more than one forum like that, like for different ages. 10-15, 15-20, 20-30, 35-and up. or maybe only two forums, under 30 and over. I'm not sure. Or maybe one that includes nudes, and one that doesn't. One that is for life, one for concepts.

Some kind of split...

[Farvus]

I only noticed that it's very easy to get lost in this sea of sketchbooks right now.

Maybe some place for collaborative sketchbooks? Group of few friends create one thread and they all post in it. There could be less threads and more fun. I don't know if it could solve the problem though. Really difficult.

[Sawa]

imo its a great idea to split the section :)
maybe into different ages or interests or smth dunno... to me each'd have different advantages...
maybe it would be even better to make each user chose by himself how or if the section is splitted up... like creating own groups of fav sketchbook threads or smth like that :D

[Brendan N]

maybe we could have more than one forum like that, like for different ages. 10-15, 15-20, 20-30, 35-and up. or maybe only two forums, under 30 and over. I'm not sure. Or maybe one that includes nudes, and one that doesn't. One that is for life, one for concepts.

Some kind of split...

Disagree a bit with this - splitting up on basis of age means the youngsters get robbed of some input by older more experienced members. Besides that, not all youngsters are on the same level, and neither are all the older members.

I don't think it's such a bad thing - it forces people to make friends and get round to other people's sbs in the hope of receiving a return visit. If you have some cool friends (like I am lucky to have :D) you'll get posts on an almost daily basis.

There is one other problem - I see a lot of threads get shot down in terms of rating (no, not my own! I'm overrated, actually). There are 3star and 2-star threads with almost no crits in them (just "keep going"'s and "you're improving"'s), and because they're rated so badly they don't get much feedback. All I think you should try is remove the voting options in the thread and limit them to the "post reply" screen - that way they'll need to give feedback to vote. Though, I can see this turning into a problem, since it'll be easier to identify voters and you don't want that.. it might end up in voting wars.... maybe it's best to leave it as it is?

[argais00]

its really a good question..
i feel overwhelmed at the sketchbook forums, cant keep track of that much..
i've been bookmarking the ones i like more...

ill think up a bit on that and will try to come up with some ideas... ;)

but definitely we could use a new way to look at that forum.

[argais00]

for a start... maybe a separate rss feed for the forum ? with the topics and the last post by the topic author ?

[Farvus]

If new poster is not getting enough exposure then maybe the community.conceptart.org would help in that. (I heard it's going to be remade from scratch) It's additional way of communication so even if you don't look into sketchbook section, you can still see somebody's thread after visiting his profile. So instead of gallery in community section just link to sketchbook? :)

Here are my ideas :P

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[Brendan N]

there should be some sort of award system.. remember those eyeballs..

when someone make a critique there should be a button called "Usefull Crit!" which adds +1 to people's usefull crit count.. after so many crits (a high number like 100 I suppose) the person gets awarded with an eyeball or different crit icon. I guess this requires coding, so i don't know how doable this is.

I always try to crit people when replying, i've done a lot of lenghty posts as well. I've never had someone react bad to it. Would be nice to get something small back for it, besides the gratitude of the person :)

Mayby that will encourage more critiques.

I like this thinking! Extra points for replying to a thread not marked as "hot topic!" and perhaps make the hot topic requirements like 75 posts and 800 views or something like that? :).

[kool-ka-lang]

why don't we split it up into the Professional sb's, and the learning sb's?

just a suggestion, but I guess the learning sb's would still get flooded.

actually, we'd need a pretty good system of moving threads. because people aren't always 19, or aren't always in professional work. so, if we do go by age, then people who were once 15 in the one to 15 range would have to get their threads moved to the 16-20 range.

[kovah]

I think something could be done, because i love looking through the sketchbooks i just get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of new posts that are flooding in constantly. I think giving people points for crits is a great idea.

Also could someone tell me how to get a link to my sketchbook in my signature because every time i try the link never works..

[SgtDirtbag]

I like the idea with the rating system, but I don't like splitting the sketchbooks into different sections.

One thing I REALLY love about the sketchbook section is that everybody's in the same boat, professionals and beginners alike.

Making sub-forums would just create gaps between skill levels/age groups/styles that are just not necessary in my opinion
and the way it is makes this place so special.

I think we rather need a different method of accessing the amount of dynamic data in the sketchbook section.
My first thought, inspired by those nifty sketchbook icons, would be to utilize something like the artists showcase that's present in the header:

159248

But with little modifications.
It would have to be dynamically generated, so that the most recent SB would be at the top left, the next most recent right next to it and so on.

159249

Keep in mind that this is just a quick mock-up, the databox next to the SB-Icon could be a bit bigger, so that it stores all the usual information (viewcount, postcount etc.), the overall layout could be a bit more pleasing to the eye and so on.

The general idea is to make better use of the space of each page.
That mock-up shows 30 sketchbooks in the same area, that currently holds only 8!

A sketchbook wouldn't move that fast out of view with such a thumbnail layout.

[kool-ka-lang]

^^^I wonder if the actual forum can actually DO that though. :/

it'd be nice if it's possible, and WOULD make use of space--except we lose the titles.

[SgtDirtbag]

@kool-ka-lang: Well, if one sketchbook would use the space of 2 of my mock-up SBs, we'd still save space (15 SBs instead of 8 in the same space) compared to the current layout and we could put the (shortened?) titles back in.

But you're probably right, this might be too tough to implement.

[Justin.]

I say leave it as it is. Why fix what isn't broken?

When you want comments, you comment in other people's. You have a link in your sig. While I always love to browse the SB's, I always start from page 7 or 8 and work my way up to 1. As was said, seperating them in pretty much any way will only create some animosity and segregated feelings, like when people get moved from the FF to the CC. Aside from age (which is useless and not a good categorization method at all), there is pretty much no objective rating system. This way people don't all flood to one sub-section of it. The SSG's were a good idea, and most still haven't completley fizzled out. The way I address the people who post in my thread, instead of making a long post addressing them individually- I try to go to their SB and do something constructive. I like Jens' idea. However, 1 post could generate so many crit points. There would have to be a way of limiting each post to only 1 point, and to make sure the person can't point themselves.

I like the SB section how it is.

[LateNiteHype]

kovah-

Go to Edit Signatures link in UserCP and put your link inside URL tags- replace the curly braces with brackets ("[]"):

{URL="http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread...bahblahblah"}Kovah's Sketchbook{/URL}


As far as the Sketchbook dilemma, I don't know if there is a better way to do it than it is now. If you try to further categorize books by some arbitrary feature (figure drawings, fantasy, environments, etc), it only keeps other less popular subjects from being seen. Also, you eliminate the spontaneity and variety of one's sketchbook. That's what gives me my inspiration- seeing an artist here move in and out of their confort zones and maybe improve in a particular subject matter over time.

I think maybe the current concept of sketchbook support groups should be expanded- instead of the the 6 to 8 members- maybe expand to 25-30 members. This way the setting is still sorta intimate, but a group can survive if a few members go MIA (get jobs, get locked up, get deployed, get sexy time, etc.).

Other than that- maybe just get in the practice of after posting in your sketchbook, that you pick an arbitrary sketchbook on the same page and look through it.



Actually- let me do that now. Put on some Brut, grab a drink and mingle.

Heelllo...I'm a Capricorn. And my name is Charles. :wink:

[Hyskoa]

159249


Would load quite slow.
Just have the first 3-4 rows with their original icon and the rest with no icon unless you hover above it.

That way we can go up till 10 rows of 6 each without having the page load slower.
Just replace "last post" with the SB owner's name.

[Brendan N]

There could be some sort of sketchbook spotlight.. one guy per week get's spotlighted or something.. mayby some sort of competition, different than chow, more practice and study orientated perhaps, winner gets the spotlight. Chow is about finished stuff, a sketchbook competition could be about generating a lot of cool ideas.. putting sketches togheter togheter in a fun way.. for example like these sketchscrolls (http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8505/stroke065bu7.jpg) a friend of mine does. This probably would require a different subforum for the entries.

i'd be happy to help setting up something like this. davi?

I was also thinking something in line of "hard worker of the week" thing that might or might not get mentioned on the main page along with the CHOWs and COWS... and perhaps in Oblio's editorial. Basically from the screen drop down or something you can nominate someone for this 'award.' You can nominate as many as you want but only once per nominee. The winner gets his sb displayed for a month/fortnight/week on the mainpage?

Note, not for "best sb" - "hardest worker's sb."

But this may get very complex and too much to maintain. I like the seeming simplicity and straightforwardness of the site - it should stay like that.

[tensai]

when someone make a critique there should be a button called "Usefull Crit!" which adds +1 to people's usefull crit count.. after so many crits (a high number like 100 I suppose) the person gets awarded with an eyeball or different crit icon. Mayby that will encourage more critiques.

good idea - and a lot more useful than which type of gladiator you are. rather than one icon i think you could just have a number of useful crits next to your name or something.. or stars. that way people that care about these things would stay motivated to give out good crits and not start slacking once they received the coveted eyeball... if you like at the apple support forum (http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa) they do something similar over there. i think it works very well.

As was said, seperating them in pretty much any way will only create some animosity and segregated feelings, like when people get moved from the FF to the CC.

agreed - but(!) i do think separating the FF into an FF and CC forum did really good things. i don't think a similar thing would be doable in the SB section though (who's gonna monitor/decide which SB goes where?), so that leaves us back to davi's original question...

Basically from the screen drop down or something you can nominate someone for this 'award.' You can nominate as many as you want but only once per nominee. The winner gets his sb displayed for a month/fortnight/week on the mainpage?

as far as i know there is something like this already. it works on nominations suggested by members. i think it's a cool idea.

i agree the SB section is super crowded but if you would do a separation it would need to be a good one other wise it would probably hurt more than it fixes. i wish i had an actual suggestion?

one thing i'd love to see, and that might help a bit though is:

it would be great if we could subscribe and get an e-mail reminder only when the original poster posts in his sketchbook. i often want to reply and give comments and crits to people but i don't need an e-mail of every single member saying OMG!!!!

that way you would know there is new art up that is worth checking out and critting and you could subscribe to more of them???

[_ J]

One thing I REALLY love about the sketchbook section is that everybody's in the same boat, professionals and beginners alike.

Making sub-forums would just create gaps between skill levels/age groups/styles that are just not necessary in my opinion
and the way it is makes this place so special.

What about dividing on user name's first letter, say 0-9, A-E, F-M, etc., no. of sections can increase or decrease by changing the classification, e.g change from A-E to A-C. Existing sketchbooks can be auto-classified by system to the right section.:)

[Elwell]

I don't know that there's a solution to this that wouldn't be worse than the original problem.
The Sketchbook section is popular because it's the one area of the site where you are basically free to post whatever you want. Breaking it down by category would defeat the point. I'm also seriously against an age based division, because it will both ghettoize younger members, while at the same time encourage exactly the kind of members we don't want (Hey kidz! Here's a place just 4 U!).

[-sideshowbob-]

seperation is one way.. but since the data is there anways a different way to "view" or "access" the data can do the trick also

filters now are/output sorted by :

last post time
thread start time
number of replies
number of views
etc bla


what about filters like
view professional sketchbooks
view 5 star books / 4 / 3 / 2 / 1 star books
view sketch-group sketchbbooks
view My-/favorites/bookmarked/subscribed threads/sketchbooks whatever
view books i visited most
view books i replied to
view something silly here
view i dunno
u name it

have it placed in a menu on top/below banner or somewhere for easy access
that way each visitor can decide what - when and how to view
first sketchbook page should still be as it is now - its all there and easy to access - any further complication -> "how to view" sketchbook listings *see above* should be done by visitors decision


:O

[Earendil]

I know this isn't really a "problem" per se, but one thing that I'd like to see is the ability to change the thumbnail that appears right next to your sketchbook. I'm ready to lose the "shades shapes" to something more current. The only way I can see to change it, is to modify the first post, but that's not good...is it?

GFXArtist (while in the throes of DA flooding), has an interesting tiered system...I'm not sure it'd be good for CA, but it'd be worth investigating that kind of layout.

[Justin.]

The thread icon is the first attached image in your thread. That's how you change it. You can remove attachments, so yes, it is changeable.


I agree Jens, I was thinking while typing, that perhaps only the thread starter would see the crit buttons in his thread. However, just like in MMO's, some people would register other accounts and just start patting themselves on the back like a bunch of wild... back patters.

[Jason Rainville]

So basically the problem is - it's popular, and the constant bumping and commenting on other's sb makes the flow of threads like a gushing river.

one possible (and drastic) change would be to eliminate the ability of others to post in your sb, as that seems to be the problem. There are more posts in the general SB made by others, not the OP. And why? So others can come back and look at your, say "oooh pretty" and give you a boost.

C'mon, that's what it is. At least that's what it's turning into. I admit doing this to get more views on my SB. Remind you of someplace?

Sorry to be blunt but in my eyes the SB section is slowly moving away from critique and more to one-line ass-pats that populate deviantart. I'm starting to not be able to tell the difference between the SB section and deviantart. Sometime you DO get worthwhile crits on your SB, but most of the time (especially in pro's SBs) it's oohs and ahhhs that push the smaller guys down to the bottom.

Eliminating non-OP comments would turn the sketchbook section into a gallery rather that a chatting-ground, and would serve to force members to bring their more promising works into the other sections for critique ... and also get them in those sections to HELP critique. The all of a sudden it's people CRITTING other's threads in the crit and sketches/wip section to help AND get others to come look at their threads they just happened to post, thereby making the popular movement of the SB secion (I post in yours, you post in mine) the popular movement in the crit and WIP section.

...


But that's quite a drastic change, and I don't really think it'll get a warm response. But it has some sound reasoning behind it, otherwise I wouldn't have offered the idea...

[kool-ka-lang]

Well, we could put the limit of words up to 30 or something, so as to prevent the really quick messages.

Or, THE most drastic change I can see, is to restart the entire sketchbook forum all together. Keep the legendary ones for show. Many would object to that, I know, but it's I guess that's the LAST, LAST resort.

[Jason Rainville]

Many would object to that, I know, but it's I guess that's the LAST, LAST resort.

Why? What would that do? it would just start all over again, and people would just relink all their work. Besides, the point of the attatchment feature is to KEEP the work online, so that this place can become a huge library of art for years to come...

[kool-ka-lang]

I just was throwing ideas out, wasn't really thinking there. what about a 5-minute restriction between a person's posts in that forum?:shrug:

[Jason Rainville]

I just was throwing ideas out, wasn't really thinking there. what about a 5-minute restriction between a person's posts in that forum?:shrug:

Sorry, but I just got flashbacks to the horror of my mom throwing out some of my art by mistake when I was a kid :O :wink:

Flood control would defenitely discourage one-liner spamming while still allowing serious commenting. Could be a good idea.

[emily g]

We already have the sketchbook forum split into two sections: "Exclusive" sketchbooks and regular sketchbooks.

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.

[BANNED_For_POOPY_PANTS]

How about a weekly or daily spotlight and Q+A in the SB section? You know.. one RANDOM CA member gets to be center stage, recieve crits, share his/her plans for the future, etc.

[Hyskoa]

We already have the sketchbook forum split into two sections: "Exclusive" sketchbooks and regular sketchbooks.

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.

Quite true yes.
Those sb's are more portfolio's than they are the nitty gritty work of those people.

[himlayan]

Not a fan of an awards system, tbh ^^; I'd really rather have the "I'm taking the time to comment on your SB thread because I seriously think this can help you" type of crits than the "I'm taking the time to comment on your SB because I'm aiming to be l33t crit-person" crits.

I've always viewed the SB forums as a kind of free-for-all art dump for artists where they can show daily progress in whatever type of art they've done recently. Then anything more refined can go to the Critique section or the It's Finally Finished section.

Agree with some of the above points though. If it's possible, maybe only posts marked as having new art posted by the OP can make the thread bump, and any new replies by people who aren't the OP (or even replies by the OP that doesn't contain new art in it) won't bump the thread.

Just my two cents ^^;

[Elwell]

We already have the sketchbook forum split into two sections: "Exclusive" sketchbooks and regular sketchbooks.

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.

Best idea so far.

[joelhinxman]

We already have the sketchbook forum split into two sections: "Exclusive" sketchbooks and regular sketchbooks.

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.

yea i like this idea.

i think alot of the movement comes from people posting responses to stuff they like and not so much on art being uploaded.
the only other way i could think of is to devide art post and responses kinda like the old way the exclusive sb was but that didnt really work and i dont think it would for the sbs

edit: oh just thought of something. if people get board at the end of page one why not just make page one longer

[chaosrocks]

i like the drift we have now
good stuff floats

it we are separating by age
im a 14 yo azn boy

chaos

[FlipMcgee]

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.

Works in theory but....I know there are people who have an exclusive PLUS a non-exclusive going on. Doesn't bother me, just saying.

I actually don't mind how busy it is right now in terms of people submitting and people browsing. It encourages participants to draw and update there threads more often and on a regular basis.


Within an hour theres a chance a new poster can be pushed off to the second page.

I've been observing board trends for awhile now since I'm busy with my own thread myself, and I haven't actually witnessed this happen yet. I suspect the average time it takes for one's thread to go from the very top of page 1 to page 2 is between 10-15 hours, except maybe on weekends. People are replying to the same page 1 thread(s) over and over, which may give the illusion that a lot of earlier posted sketchbooks are going to page 2.

[mehran]

MAKE THE DARN FORUM LONGER SO THAT IT TAKES MORE THREADS AT ANY GIVEN TIME....
explanation ;;
at other forums if you have 60 posts in your thread you have a thread that is at least 3 pages long. on conceptart if we have pages a thread with 60 posts will only be a bit more than one page...
so why not do the same with the forum page.. at right now it's 60 link long...
now changing that will make it only look more crowded than it is right now.
SO we divide it into subsections saying todays updated threads and yesterday's updated threads..and so on..
it shouldn't be like a sub forum ..people hate sub forums, make it a scrollable page instead... which means that on our main sketchbook forum page there will be
multiple scorllable pages with banners saying todays threads, yesterday's threads, last weeks threads.


ANOTHER IDEA,,
it might be good to give the sktchbk forum a completely different look than the other forums, since it IS a dump we should treat it like that.... :)
so I suggest this

[SgtDirtbag]

How about making it so that posts without images can't push threads to the top?
Or how about only the Threadstarter pushes the thread when he posts?

[mehran]

thread starters only pushing the threads is a real good idea,

[_ J]

How about making it so that posts without images can't push threads to the top?


A similar idea is 2 "sort by" buttons:
1. normal sorting as it is now
2. sort by latest image date (default setting)

[tensai]

How about making it so that posts without images can't push threads to the top?
Or how about only the Threadstarter pushes the thread when he posts?

yes that might be good, quite radical but good. is there any way to implement this as only one way of viewing the posts? i mean as a filter?

in combination with the aforementioned idea:


one thing i'd love to see, and that might help a bit though is:

it would be great if we could subscribe and get an e-mail reminder only when the original poster posts in his sketchbook. i often want to reply and give comments and crits to people but i don't need an e-mail of every single member saying OMG!!!!


:)?

[sve]

I agree with that fat kid... if you want people to write to you... help yourself, it is doable.... there are some ways, mostly it is to be helpful and people will return the favor to you...
Exclusive books section is not the same... I don't know why but it feels cold and I don't like posting there... there is no feeling of communication. Sketch book section has a wonderful feeling of community, people having the same interests as me. I would not like any division of art lovers by age, skills, popularity or anything else... because all members are very important for the exchange ideas through art and feedback and through a mutual inspiration.

About giving an eye for good crits... I don't know... I'm indifferent to this idea... seems a bit childish. And it might soon become having nothing common with reality.

The point is... communicate with people if you want them to look at you.

[tomwaits4noman]

I have notices sketchbooks set up by the same user for different projects,
I can understand this putting everything in the one thread means it is hard to get feedback on new stuff etc,

A suggestion when a user signed up they have the option of setting up a sketchbook with sub caterogies person viewing the thread can pick a caterogy.
The user can continue to add images to the top section of the thread while all threads are posted underneath,

This means that the user will have all their pics at the top of the page and comments below the images, instead of 3 or 4 images one day 3 ppl leave comments then the user has to post their images under the comments

I think a different approach has to be taken to the sketchbook than other threads it is an organic thing more images are added by the user so they need some control or it.

[Farvus]

It can be improved in many ways but it seems that the simpliest solution seems to be being friendly + having sketchbook link in signature. It's always there below everybody's post.

[sciboy]

I'd say if you want to make the regular sketchbook area less busy, just move some more people into the exclusive section--it's rather slow in there.
thread starters only pushing the threads is a real good idea,
A similar idea is 2 "sort by" buttons:
1. normal sorting as it is now
2. sort by latest image date (default setting)

These seem the most promising in my opinion.

[chaosrocks]

the record since Ive been paying attention is 2 hours 13 minutes....
bu tthat was at peak traffic time
chaos

[Konstruktion]

Stars can be both bad and good, bad if you have under 3 stars, good if you have over. I suppose? Anyways I myself don't find the stars necessary. Lots of good ideas here though. But I guess the answer to everything is to update often hehe...

[Gloominati]

hmm well I believe that the problems occurring in the sketchbook section right now can't be solved via inventing any kind of "sanction -system" to separate the nice from the bad guys.

The biggest problem in my opinion isn't the dump this section has become but the reasons why it became that dump:

The sketchbooks aren't taken seriously by most of the people around there. Neither the ones who have a sketchbook take it seriously because the post each and every doodly scribble they farted on the paper, nor do the ones who comment on such a sketchbook, cause they prefer to kiss some ass rather then giving criticism since they hope that they get their ass kissed the same way. And so it goes back and forth getting bigger and bigger till the point where this entire show rises more and more into ridiculousness (especially compared to the Finally Finished section). Of course this does not count for all the dudes around there (this should be evident), especially in this section some of the greatest magic on these boards happens, but there is so much shit surrounding it that nobody can notice it.
By the way : I think that the fact that most of the "pro-sketchbooks" were separated from the rest was the worst idea on could ever have, cause the huge dump got filtered into an even bigger one. Let the pros get back into the sketchbook section again!
In my opinion another problem over there is that there are a lot of pros around here but only a tiny part of them gives a damn about looking through the sb's once in a while, this is another point I really can't understand, cause helping each other (and especially the pros over here preach each and every time how great this place is to grow and improve ones skills together)is a great thing, but honestly : one comment from anybody with experience is mostly so much more worth than any comment of a "dude who hasn't reached pro-stats yet", as seriously as he might mean it (sorry but this is the truth.)

so I believe that these things are the main issues going on in that section and I really have no idea how to solve it, maybe just one thing:

Some kind of moderator-Unit who check the sketchbooks and their "owners" to see if there are serious enough about their own work to "be allowed to post in there, or if they should better try not to focus on an online sketchbook but more on the critique section over here. (might sound really harsh as well but it might help....). Though I have no idea what should decide if somebody is sketchbook-worthy or not and how to recognize if somebody wants an online-sketchbook to improve or just to get his ass kissed for some 5 minute doodles.


Edit :
I think that Jens' suggestion sounds really nice but there should be also a "useless comment"- button and then the relation between good and bad comments should decide if you get an "award" or not(which also means that one might loose it as quick as he gained it). But again there is the number of pussies around here who see serious crits as serious insults...

[gorgnut]

The option to sort/view posts based on the latest post by the thread starter seems like a good idea, as well as what tensai said about e-mail subscriptions.

It's hard to control a section like that, cause a sketchbook should be just that, a sketchbook, controlling the content to put in it seems to defeat its purpose.
I'd rather see more control on the client side.

[Dile_]

some good ideas, some really good ideas, I kinda like

* starter-by-thread-only-push-thread to top
and
* double rows of sketchbooks..

I strongly dislike getting grouped in by age or skill.

I really like having another forum or sub forum for collaborative sketchbooks.
It woulld be cool, and its also a motivation thing.. encouraging people to start a sketchbook together with someone else is a good start... when people have started a sketchbook together with someone else, its seems easier to draw, as you know your friends will ...

just an idea..

-Dile

[Costau D]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this. But how about to split the ones from the more dedicated sketchbooks to the lax sketchbooks.

There could be a system that moves the thread to another section if the artist updates more often, and shows that he/she really is serious about learning and wanting feedback, where as the other artists that post in a more relaxed fashion will be sent to a seperate thread. It would give people incentive to draw more and update. Plus one rule would have to be enforced on the OP which is every post must have artwork.

The system wouldnt judge how often anyone posts in the thread but on how often the OP updates. Plus the star system could maybe be implemented into the equation. Perhaps a star system that can only be used by those who have been here for a while, and it is used to judge on how dedicated the person seems to be. This way people can know for sure on who will listen or not to critiques, and how well they take criticism and advice. The others who want the attention for learning, just have to prove it and start posting more and updating.

Maybe it's too harsh, but it would be interesting if some way this could be implemented.

[Infinit]

Maybe some place for collaborative sketchbooks? Group of few friends create one thread and they all post in it. There could be less threads and more fun. I don't know if it could solve the problem though.

I rly like this idea.
it can help ppl to be motivated to post more
the "doo..." thread in the sketches&wip section works great on this base

imo the SBs aren't used as a place to get crits for most ppl but to recieve posts and do what they like and, in short to get attention/show off

[arttorney]

I think that grouping by age or by some stylistic, or merit system might prove discouraging to some people who are really trying hard under the current system unless it is done thoughtfully. I had thought also of the alphabet when I was trying to find a content neutral way to divide groups, but I think it will make the front page extremely complicated if there is to be any way to tell from the front page what is going inside the divisions. (there's also geography but that may lead to insular behavior discouraging to sharing ideas)

I agree the time one stays on the front page varies by time or day of the week, and I have noted a crust down there around page 5 that you can float on for several days before falling into the depths of the pit. Maybe a service guarantees citizenship related idea might be usable, like a section for people who have provided detailed helpful crit types posts at least a certain number of times per month. I think this would be very hard to monitor and hard to implement due to inherent subjectivity of the contents of posts. People who think they have been helpful getting kicked back out of such an area for reasons they don't understand can lead to arguments and ill will.

The easier thing I had thought of might be to have topical winnowing threads. I mean something like the DSG or community activities; but without deadline pressure and without pressure to be finished (e.g. the ongoing spaceship thread, all ability levels welcome, must be a drawing of a spaceship though). If these topics are chosen carefully, they may reveal natural affinities or groups by which people hang around which particular thread a lot. Then it may be possible to group out the "lovers of tech" "lovers of monsters" "lovers of figures" "lovers of breathtaking vistas" etc. (A way to let people select their home section by their natural sketching behavior). These threads may get a lot of bumps, so if there are too many of them the front page will be constantly filled by them. Gratuitous bumps could be reduced by a rule of "no purely text posts (you want to talk in here then show us an image)." The crits are more likely to be by people who care about that kind of stuff in those threads and that might be an incentive for people to climb aboard them.

(Done blabbing now.)

[Dile_]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this. But how about to split the ones from the more dedicated sketchbooks to the lax sketchbooks.

There could be a system that moves the thread to another section if the artist updates more often, and shows that he/she really is serious about learning and wanting feedback, where as the other artists that post in a more relaxed fashion will be sent to a seperate thread. It would give people incentive to draw more and update. Plus one rule would have to be enforced on the OP which is every post must have artwork.

The system wouldnt judge how often anyone posts in the thread but on how often the OP updates. Plus the star system could maybe be implemented into the equation. Perhaps a star system that can only be used by those who have been here for a while, and it is used to judge on how dedicated the person seems to be. This way people can know for sure on who will listen or not to critiques, and how well they take criticism and advice. The others who want the attention for learning, just have to prove it and start posting more and updating.

Maybe it's too harsh, but it would be interesting if some way this could be implemented.

Good ideas but very complicated..

And basicly, the easier one, "Thread started can only bump thread" works the same way.. The thread starter show how dedicated he is by updating often, and the sketchbook will be seen on top often!

Solved.. But with an easier method :)

-Dile

[Costau D]

Actually yeah that is a better solution.

But, what about the star system? To get rid of those run and gun star voters that vote 1 for every thread just to knock it down. I know this has happened to you Dile_ as well as many others. Shouldnt there be a required time or postings in order to be able to vote so not every joe schmo can come in and be a douche? Perhaps maybe even both? Requirement for how long he/she has been a member, and their ranking for how many posts.

[Dile_]

Its only terrible when it happens to 5 star artists, and with the exclusive subforum where no stars exist , even those guys are safe from douche-bags.

I was only whining you know ;)

I'm not neglecting your idea. I'm just saying my opinion. And uhm.. a true 5 star artist will be voted 5 stars whatever jackasses might try to do about it ;)

Also.. the star system been changed many times ( what i've heard ) and people seem to cry every time over not being rated high ..

[Justin.]

The problem with "starter only responses" is the lack of crits you would get.. sure people would send it via PM, but not nearly as many as you get from having it open to others. That is, after all the point of the sketchbooks- not so much to show off, but to learn.

[Micaiah Nelson]

Just give the 5 star or a certain range of star there own fourm like the a 5star sketchbook kinda like the esclusive sketchbooks. While Yual at it look at mines

[mehran]

having a moderator-unit sanctioning permission to open sketchbooks will be too hard to actually HELP, it might even drive people away... with the kind of work we see in galleries on the net it is really hard to stay focused , and rather easier to be frustrated and end-up busting your ass over stuff that really doesn't help you grow....

[Dile_]

justin, how is that ?!? You update often and then you'll get to be seen on the front page often... the more often you update, the more chances you will get to be seen by otheres and that will give you comments / critique.... and heh.. how many leaves critique these days in the sketchbook section ?! Not many...

[SgtDirtbag]

@Justin: Maybe I missed something, but why should people send you critiques as PMs instead of posting in your sketchbook?

Just to get it clear, my suggestion was not to exclude visitors from the sketchbook.
My suggestion was to make it so that their posts in your sketchbook won't push the SB to the top of the page.

That way visitors can posts as many comments, critiques and asspats as they please, but it's only the artist that can bring himself to the top.

[Jason Rainville]

@Justin: Maybe I missed something, but why should people send you critiques as PMs instead of posting in your sketchbook?

Just to get it clear, my suggestion was not to exclude visitors from the sketchbook.
My suggestion was to make it so that their posts in your sketchbook won't push the SB to the top of the page.

That way visitors can posts as many comments, critiques and asspats as they please, but it's only the artist that can bring himself to the top.

It was my suggestion to exclude other from your sketchbook, turning the SB section into a gallery. The reasoning is to 'force' others to bring their more noteworthy work into the other sections for critique.

Justin; it appears to be half-and-half in there right now. Half the time I get a good crit on a certain piece or my general direction, half the time I get "really good!" "keep going!" which is supportive, but I was going to keep going anyways... plus all the pros get is "awesome" MOST of the time anyways.

I'm not sure if exclusion is the best answer though, because it would obviously make crits on 'regular' work few and far between (as you said, possible only thrugh pm). But like I said, it would greatly increase traffic to the sketches and crit section, places that are really suffering (right now there are 20 people viewing the crit and wip sections each, while over 300 view the sb section...) I comb both the WIP and Crit sections from time to time and TRY to get at each thread that has 0 posts and is about to slip off the page, but that's not really the point, but really it's disheartening that newcomers who post in those sections first aren't recieving the welcome they deserve....

Right now I'm thinking the middle path of maintaining non-op comments but making sure that non-op comments DO NOT bump the topic, meaning that it's the frequency of the op's updates, not the frequency of HIS comments in the sb's of others, that get's him comments.

[davi]

im looking into the idea of having it so thread starters' new posts are the only one to update the display order on the forum, but it isnt something that comes included with the forum coding, so... cannot say it will be implemented or not

[SgtDirtbag]

@Rhineville: Sorry, must have missed your post. :)

@davi: It's cool that you want to give it a try.
If it doesn't work, well, it's not as if our lifes depend on it, right? ;)

[Weeda]

I'm sorry, I didn't read this entire thread, so maybe this idea was already addressed, but what about breaking it up into levels of skill and/or comfort.
Because I know that I really don't feel right about posting along side of all these great artists that are so much better than me... I would be more than happy to go into the least skilled category.

[Justin.]

SgtDirtbag- MY BAD!

I thought you meant exclude them like the exclusive sketchbooks used to be.

In that case, I think THAT is by FAR the best idea yet. To make it so only starters' posts can bump a thread.

Weeda- CA is about learning, not about watching. Setting it up with class distinctions has a number of flaws, more than just physical.
It would have a mentally depressing effect on people in the lower classes for the most part- many artists are intimidated by those better, and this would only increase that. All those nice big great artists are normal people with a heart and blood, brain and hands, just like you, they are no different other than they have drawn alot more in their life. Creating needless seperation almost doubtlessly leads to conflict... look at Race distinction, gender distinction... We are all artists, no matter the skill- the fact we create and grow as artists and people is what's important, not our skill level.

[Seer]

Personally, I think the time outs, when logged in and accessing posts, is a way bigger problem.


im looking into the idea of having it so thread starters' new posts are the only one to update the display order on the forum, but it isnt something that comes included with the forum coding, so... cannot say it will be implemented or not

That'd be cool.

[arttorney]

Weeda. I had mostly thought people might be hurt by getting classed lower than they think they are, but that is probably a function of the fact that my own ego is enormous (:nohope: :nohope: ). You bring up an interesting point though. Related to that I suppose, is that I don't generally post in a superstar's book because I try to avoid the asspat and yet there's a chance they might not really want to hear real crits from me. I'm going to go do a little editing of my own book now that I think about this.

[NightVision]

I like it the way it is.

The more you post (art) in your thread, the more you bump your thread.
The more you visit other people's sketchbooks, the more they visit back.
The more you are around in the community (being nice and helpfull), the more people visit your threads.
Having a link to your sketchbook eases this process.
Having a title and image that tells people what to expect, helps too imo.

I think doing the above has a lot more impact than any artificial way we can come up with.

I would strongly prefer not to have more subsections. I like the variety in style, subject, skill level and so on. It's easier to click to page 2 of 1 section than to another section, so it would only take quality time away anyway.

It would be cool however if asspats would go in another (linked) thread or so, because they obscure the art in some hot threads and keep bumping threads that haven't updated in months.

[Dave_]

How about just a
"Scetchbooks"
---> exclusive
---> SB 1
---> SB 2
---> SB 3

no seperation by things, like age, skill etc. just by random. it will make sure theres less traffic in each.

[Gloominati]

since i believe that there also are a lot of "deviantart-minded" people around the sketchbook section, I am not sure if the "only the creator can bump the thread"-solution is the best one. This might encourage this special people to post even more junk for the wrong reasons in their threads.......maybe just my negative view,but I think this should be considered as well.

[SgtDirtbag]

since i believe that there also are a lot of "deviantart-minded" people around the sketchbook section, I am not sure if the "only the creator can bump the thread"-solution is the best one. This might encourage this special people to post even more junk for the wrong reasons in their threads.......maybe just my negative view,but I think this should be considered as well.
That very thought crossed my mind as well.
Call me naive, but I think people around here are mature enough to not abuse it by posting "something" every 5mins to stay on top.

I guess only time will tell, if it gets implemented.

[Dile_]

Well, people will cry whatever the admins might change... They are crying now, they will cry later, they will always cry as long as they don't get tons of attention and a high rating...

-Dennis

[Justin.]

Can't you always set a spam filter for their own thread? 3 posts a day or such?

[SgtDirtbag]

@Justin: I like that idea. :)

[Jazz]

I like the idea of original poster email alerts. I almost thought of on-site alerts (like when you get an alert for messages and comments), but I suppose that's too much extra work.

I find it a problem that a person needs to post on the SB "everyday" to keep their book on the first page. Some people really can't post every day, and some of the more popular SBs keep on the first page if someone else replies. (I wonder if the commenter would ever want to try marking their comment as "crit-com" or "non-crit-com". Sometimes reading the critiques for other SB's are helpful, too. :) )

I tell you, if I have to post every day, you'd see mostly crap from me. Forced crap at that. It would be cool if there was a limit in time between posts (again, a lot of work), but if the OP posted within that time, then maybe their SB would stick around on the front page longer. I guess that would fill up quickly, though.

I think someone mentioned newest SB spotlight kind of things. That would be nice, a sort of SB Newbie section or sub-section. I...just have no idea how you'd get their threads moved to the un-newest sketchbooks.

Ack, I think they're great IDEAS, just implementing them is challenging.

[davi]

i've searched and searched and i couldnt find anything already scripted to help set it up so that only the original poster can bump the thread.... its not something i could write on my own, i do not have that type of coding experience.

[Magic Man]

I've noticed the sketchbook forum is really popular, REALLLLLLLY popular. Within an hour theres a chance a new poster can be pushed off to the second page.

Is this a problem?

If it is, can you guys think of a solution?

I had an idea of maybe making a few sketchbook forums, so people maybe doing industrial design more would work in that forum more?

i dont know... im really shot on ideas of how to fix this.

I don't think thats a problem at all, in fact, for those who are serious to improve, they'd be pushed to draw a shitload more just to keep their sb's in the top 2-3 pages and to hopefully get crits or comments.

Those who aren't serious will just fall off the wayside.

Honestly, its awesome as it is at the moment, why try to fix something thats not broken?

m

[Dile_]

To be honest.. I never look for sketchbooks beyond page 1... except if some friend recently updated and I haven't checked it yet...

[Costau D]

Same here.

[wheezy]

I think the SB forum is fine the way it is.

However...

If something must be done about it, I would replace the SB forums with the community.conceptart.org tool. That is what the community page is for. Viewers can get a better understanding of who you are and potentially understand your art more by having to view your profile etc.

Once the community.conceptart.org development was complete, I would announce to the community that the SB section was being sunset and to start using your community pages.

This would allow people to learn a lot more about each other.

[MarkHarchar]

I have a question about content. Is it appropriate to keep stuff other than "drawings" in a sketchbook? I paint as well as draw and found that people wouldn't see the sketchbook because they followed the painting thread and vice versa. It got harder to keep updated. Should I continue to have them integrated as I have lately or keep them separated? The wrong content may be keeping the forum too busy. My bad if so...

[emily g]

There's nothing wrong with having paintings in your sketchbook thread.